India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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Philip
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

See how the KK agitations have been "switched on" on command by the foreign masters of the local quislings.Karnad's analysis has underscored what I've been saying right from the beginning,that the protests,espcially by so-called "Christian" entities,are all to do with the N-Liability bill which western suppliers want India to dump,and to sabotage Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/op-ed/nu ... 29583.html

Nuclear reactor politics
Bharat KarnadLast Updated : 03 Nov 2011
What’s with the stir over the Koodankulam nuclear power plant? Over the

It cannot be the case that the people protesting in Koodankulam have suddenly become knowledgeable about the dangers posed by a nuclear power station in their backyard. The bulk of the protesters seem to be the bus-ed in crowd, prepared to shout slogans and sit-in for a price as the organisers strut about mouthing stuff the audience barely comprehends about Koodankulam being a horrendous nuclear accident waiting to happen. The disaster at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear power complex has provided them a handle. Unfortunately for the world, Japan has provided two intertwined benchmarks — the catastrophic destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by atomic weapons, and the Fukushima civilian nuclear plant disaster, until now when Fukushima is portrayed as a Hiroshima by other nuclear means.

It does not seem to matter that the anti-nuclear rhetoric of the Koodankulam demonstrators has only a passing connection with the Fukushima reality — a ‘low probability-high cost’ incident triggered by a combination of earthquake and tsunami that ended up tripping the safety devices and negating the automatically activated safety measures, to a point where all control systems were overwhelmed, and the nuclear core reached melt-down condition. In such instances, the trade-off is between plant safety and cost. One can engineer the most stringent safety standards in building nuclear power stations to cater for the remotest contingency, if one is also willing to foot the enormously enhanced bill. So, a via media usually involves a compromise that eliminates the risk from extreme circumstances.

What has rendered Koodankulam an emotive issue, is the supposed shortfalls in nuclear safety that have ended up conjuring popular visions of a Fukushima in waiting. It brooks no reasonable debate as the issue has transited into the realm of faith, the physics and engineering of it be damned. This seems literally the case with the recently elected Koodankulam panchayat president Sandal V Muthuraja, who revealed to the Press that his election owed much to a parish priest of nearby Idinthakarai throwing his support behind him in return for opposing the nuclear power plant. It is possible that, unusual for a cleric, he is equally well-versed in Catholic liturgy and radiation risk analysis. More likely, however, he is an average Joe and a nuclear know-nothing convinced he is doing god’s work if it also results in the filling of church coffers. The question then is the identity and motivation of the donors. The anti-nuclear lobby in India, unlike the well-off Green Movement in the West, is cash poor and so marginalised it has become irrelevant. But along with local opinion leaders, it has been co-opted by the well-funded Greens from abroad, to lead the fight against Koodankulam. This is what S K Jain, chairman, Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd believes has happened, referring darkly to “Foreign nationals who are green from the US, Finland, France, Australia and Germany.... and backing locals in their agitation.”

Of the five countries Jain has mentioned, the United States (partnering Japan), France and Germany, it turns out, are centrally involved in trying to sell India unproven reactors run on imported enriched uranium fuel and related technologies and, in such matters, Australia habitually plays the dummy to Washington’s ventriloquist. The sales of the American Westinghouse-Toshiba AP 1000 reactor and the Franco-German 1600 MW power plant (with the French Company, Areva, providing the principal nuclear systems and assemblies and the German giant, Siemens, the high-voltage, low loss, transmission technology) did not go through because of insistence by these supplier countries that they be exempted from Indian law, specifically the Civilian Liability for Nuclear Damage Act 2010, that does not cap the liability of purveyors of nuclear reactor technology. The AP 1000 reactor, for instance, has failed to win certification from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission on safety grounds. The new Areva reactor has yet to establish its bonafides with the only 1600 MW reactor, under construction in Olkiluoto, Finland, suffering huge time and cost over-runs.

Paris made common cause Washington but only until it was assured a sale, when France decided to accept Indian government assurances and prepared to set up a 9,900 MW Areva nuclear complex at Jaitapur in Maharashtra whereas the US, trying to avoid future complications, wanted a binding Indian commitment that the Convention on Supplementary Compensation (CSC), limiting liability payouts to $300 million that Delhi signed in October 2010, will be adhered to — a legal obligation the Manmohan Singh government finds it politically infeasible to undertake given the contrary Indian law passed by Parliament.

The US reactor deals are thus hanging fire pending, at best, papering over of the differences between the Indian liability law and CSC. Russia, having grandfathered the Koodankulam plant under a 1988 bilateral agreement, has contracted to build four more VVER 1000 reactor units at the same location, which is seen by Washington as unfair advantage accruing to Moscow. This Russian edge is perhaps sought to be blunted by funnelling monies into a popular movement against the Koodankulam plant just before its commissioning. Considering its predicament, Russia may have encouraged the Communist Party (Marxist) to form the ‘National Committee in Support of Jaitapur Struggle’ and do in this Konkan fishing village what the Western countries may be doing to it in Koodankulam — using environmental and safety concerns to rouse the ire of people to stop the Areva plants from getting off the ground. This is equalisation process at work where the dog-eat-dog and dog-in-the manger principles of international politics intrude into the domain of high value nuclear reactor sales.

Bharat Karnad is professor at Centre for Policy Research and blogs at http://www.bharatkarnad.com

years, India has constructed 20 nuclear power plants — four units in Kaiga, Karnataka, two in Kakrapar, Gujarat, two in Kalpakkam, Tamil Nadu, two in Narora, Uttar Pradesh, six in Rawatbhatta, Rajasthan, and four in Tarapur, Maharashtra, and has additional eight under construction (one in Kalpakkam, two in Kakrapar, two in Rawatbhatta, and two in Banswara, Rajasthan). Never have the local populations at any time at any of these various sites risen up as they have done in Koodankulam. It’s a mystery worth probing.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

Once again BR is way ahead of the curve ...

I said right from the beginning that US felt like a monkey after the 'hard work' it did for the N-Deal as Russia already had the oopri haath in India's n-business...

The second player in the protest is Panda-land...while we were pissing and dissing russia , france , unkil , kakodkar , barc , npcil and each other , Pandaland has already begun its quest to achieve an oopri haath in India's thermal power business...

AS I said before Panda wants to aquire huge portion of Indias powerplant business...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 02320.html

- CLP India Pvt. Ltd., a unit of Chinese power generation company CLP Holdings Ltd., is seeking to acquire majority stakes in Indian coal-based power projects to expand its generation capacity, a senior executive said Thursday.

CLP India has also bid to build a 4,000 megawatt power plant in the eastern state of Orissa, Hemant Joshi, senior vice president for corporate finance and treasury, said.

The federal government is expected to award the bid for this plant in the next financial year.

Mr. Joshi also said that CLP India will start generation from its 1,320 megawatt power plant in the northern state of Haryana by May.
The same company is also seeking to buy huge coal mines.... there are protests whenever someone invests in India...why no protest when China is in the process to catch desh by its balls ? why every thing is very silent ? The posco issue has still not resolved.. our very own company tata lost 400 million dollars in shingoor..etc etc...and not even a mouse squeak when panda buys stuff,,,

So if russia supplies tech to build a reactor our so-virginity is violated and every one goes gaga over "boor quality out dated roosi maal"... but when panda begins to aquire powerplants and coal mines we don't even notice...imagine the quality of panda made coal plant...this is a same country in which newly built bullet train collapses in a weaks time and it buries the compartments with people still in it just to save H&D...

..................................................................................................................................................................
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

This should be the job of GOI. Yet locals are forced to create their own independent oversight group.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Mad ... 597327.ece
The People's Movement Against Nuclear Energy (PMANE) has expanded its existing ‘scientific team' and constituted an ‘Expert Panel' with 21 members for inspecting the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP).

“The proposed panel comprises noted scientists, engineers, doctors, environmentalists, columnists and advocates with the objectives of guiding the movement, educating the public, interacting with the State and Central governments and also the Expert Group constituted by the Union Government,” S.P. Udhayakumar, coordinator of the anti-KKNPP struggle committee said in a statement.
The members of the ‘Expert Panel' are:

Code: Select all

M. Arunachalam,                      Head (In-Charge), Sri Paramakalyani Centre for Environmental Sciences of Manonmaniam Sundaranar University at Alwarkurichi, Tirunelveli; 
Praful Bidwai,                                   senior journalist and opinion maker; 
M. G. Devasahayam,                         IAS former civil servant; 
Dr. Soumya Dutta,                            formerly head of Indira Gandhi Environment Centre; Department of Science and Technology; 
Dr. Meher Engineer,                         a physicist, who has served as the Director of Bose Institute, Kolkata; 
Dr. Surendra Gadekar,                     who has worked at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore; 
Jacob John,                                     Infrastructural economist trained in the London School of Economics and Warwick University in the UK; 
Dr. S. Ajmal Khan,                           Professor, Centre for Advanced Studies in Marine Biology, Annamalai University, Parangipettai, Tamil Nadu.

R.S. Lal Mohan,                               formerly Principal Scientist in Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (ICAR), and in Indian Council of Agricultural Research; 
Dr. C.R. Neelakandan,                      environmentalist and writer; 
V. T. Padmanabhan,                        Member of European Committee on Radiation Risk who did a genetic study on high radiation areas of Kerala; and cancer risk in BARC, TAPS and MAPS; 
Dr. M.P. Parameswaran,                  India's first Ph.D.-holder in nuclear engineering and worked at Bhaba Atomic Research Centre (BARC) during 1957-1975; 
Dr. V. Pugazhendi                            a medical practitioner studying the impact of Kalpakkam nuclear power plants on the local environment, people and plant workers; 
Dr. R. Ramesh                                 a medical practitioner, who has written books on the geology of Kudankulam; 
Professor Hanumantha Rao,             formerly member of Tamil Nadu Electricity Regulatory Commission; 
Professor T. Shivaji Rao                  Director of Centre for Environmental Studies, GITAM University, Visakhapatnam.

T. Lajapathi Roy,                            practices law at the Madurai Bench of the Madras High Court; 
Sukla Sen,                                      a retired engineer from Kolkata working with EKTA (Committee for Communal Amity); 
K.A.S. Sharma,                               formerly Energy Secretary, Government of India and formerly secretary of Economic Affairs, Ministry of Finance; 
Dr. P. Sivakumar                            formerly Head of Department in Physics at Presidency College, Chennai;
Capt. B.K. Subbarao,                      formerly Captain, Indian Navy and advocate Supreme Court of India. 
The Expert Panel will probe the different aspects of the KKNPP project such as land acquisition, site of reactors 1 and 2, environmental impact assessment (EIA) report, Coastal Regulation Zone (CRZ) violations, public hearing processes, construction quality and reliability, contractor irregularities and corruption charges, employment issues, VVER reactor design and engineering, VVER reactor performance and safety, dummy fuel and disposal, fresh water demand and supply, Pechiparai dam and Tamirabharani river water utilisation; security threats to the reactors, threat to the fishermen and their livelihood etc.,” Dr. Udhayakumar said.

“Share reports”

He appealed to the KKNPP authorities to share the EIA, site evaluation study, Safety Analysis Report, VVER Performance Report and other relevant documents to initiate dialogue with the Central Government's Expert Group.

Position papers

“On receiving the above reports, our experts will prepare brief position papers on the above mentioned issues and topics as soon as possible. Second, the PMANE will publish a compendium with all these research papers. Third, the PMANE will organise a national symposium on the KKNPP project and hold a press meet. This publication will be used for popular discussions, media outreach, discussion with the governmental authorities and a national debate on KKNPP,” he said.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sum »

^^ When i see names like Praful Bidwai and Sukla Sen in a "people's panel", i stop looking further.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

Ditto! I suppose these eminent personalities are better experts than the AEC an those scientists who have run India's N-plants for decades and the Russian designers and engineers who have set up the plant.Praful Bidwai incidentally is held in high esteem by his Paki counterparts.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Supporters of KKNPP call for immediate commissioning of the plant
Members of Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project Supporters' Movement submitted memorandum to District Collector R. Selvaraj on Friday that urged the district administration to initiate immediate steps for the early commissioning of the nuclear power programme.

Led by former district panchayat councillor N. Vijayan of Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam, the members handed over the memorandum to Dr. Selvaraj at the Collectorate.

Prior to their meeting with the Collector, members of the movement from Kudankulam, Chettikulam, Karaisuttrupudhur, Parameshwara puram, Uthayaththur, Radhapuram, Samooharengapuram, Thisaiyanvilai, Kasthurirengapuram, Aavaraikulam, Idaiyankudi, Pillaiyaarkudiyiruppu, Kottaikarunkulam, Amaravathivilai and Irukkanthurai villages and a section of the newly elected local body representatives from these hamlets met at Chettikulam on Thursday.

The meeting, attended by the local leaders of various political parties except the All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam and the Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam, unanimously decided in favour of the commissioning of the KKNPP on an early note “so as to feed the power-starved State.”

“We've decided to organise intensive campaign in support of KKNPP in the villages and distribute pamphlets and handbooks explaining the most-modern safety features incorporated at KKNPP and the advantages of having such an ambitious programme at Kudankulam,” said Mr. Vijayan adding that the campaign to be launched by the supporters' movement would wipe out all the myths pertaining to the nuclear programme.

“If the Central and State governments are still reluctant and allow the present stalemate to continue, we'll organise series of protests demanding the immediate commissioning of the KKNPP,” he said.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

Ohh its DMK vs AIADMK??
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

[quote]This should be the job of GOI. Yet locals are forced to create their own independent oversight group.[/quote]
I feel it is bit of an oxymoron that.
Any panel constituted by GOI/DAE/NPCIL would not be considered "independent", would it? After all, even Dr APJAK was rejected as being "dependent" on GOI/DAE/NPCIL!!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

chaanakya wrote:Ohh its DMK vs AIADMK??
It is not yet certain whether it is so. However, at the speed with which Ms. Jayalalitha is undoing everything that the previous regime did, this may also turn out to be a shadow war. I hope it won't turn out that way.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by hnair »

:rotfl: I appointed ARoy into a "committee of locals" to look into how I look nowadays. She came back with a report which said I am rich and ugly.

I disagree with her "findings" on both counts :D And anyways I wanted her to look at my dressing/wardrobe in the first place. I sort of knew she wont agree to evaluate my fashion sense. But I convinced myself that she must know better and appointed her because of her penchant for attracting publicity Now what do I do with report other than roll it to beat my own head?

Anything that Praful Bidwai gets into has not have any due-diligence mechanism in place. Pure drivel manufacturer, that dude.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

Philip wrote:Ditto! I suppose these eminent personalities are better experts than the AEC an those scientists who have run India's N-plants for decades and the Russian designers and engineers who have set up the plant.Praful Bidwai incidentally is held in high esteem by his Paki counterparts.

Of course sir, how dare you question the Holy Uday Kumar ? With gems such as the following, his expertise can never be questioned:

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111027.htm
What do you suggest as an alternate? Don't we need the power badly?

Tamil Nadu has the potential for 10,000 megawatt of wind energy, we need only 8000 megawatt of energy; we can sell the rest.
What happens when the wind does not blow?
Another thing is that people are fed up of the plant. For the last three years they have been saying we are starting and they have not been able to start the plant. Obviously something is very wrong with the plant. They have been building it for over ten years and they have still not finished
Of course! How dare the GoI not complete a nuclear plant in 6 months from scratch eh? I get my kothi built in 1 month onleee, GoI is taking 10 years, so something must be wrong!

BTW, does Theo_Fidel still claim there is no church involvement?

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111105.htm
Though Udayukumar has been denying until now that the movement has the support of the church, he said, "What is wrong if the church supports us, what is wrong if the Christians are leading this protest, Christians are also citizens of this country and they have every right to protest just like the rest of us".
Maybe he is lying?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

Last evening I spoke to a friend in TN who is well connected with both Dravidian factions about the protests.He alleged that "Rs.500 + Biryani,per person every day is being given by the DMK to each agitator,through the church people"! The DMK has now jumped onto the bandwagon in dog eat dog fashion,wanting to do as much damage to the rule of the AIADMK empress.adding to the confusion are the pro-plant groups who see the involvement of certain vested interests as detrimental to their well-being and prosperity which the plant will bring.

There is a limit to the mischief that the GOI can allow.Like good old Chairman Mao,every once in a while when performance was sluggish,Mao would relax party control on polemic debate and ask for fresh ideas.This would bring to the fore a host of daring ideas that was many a time at odds with the traditional party line.This was deliberately done to "smoke the snakes out of the hole".Once the revisionists who were advocating anything that went against the Marxist-Leninist "truths",the heads of the revisionist snakes who had emerged from the hole were chopped off.We now have with these protests enough evidence as to who are genuine protesters and who are being orchestrated by quisling leaders and catspaws for vested western interests.

Time to act GOI in the interests of the plant and the country.But does the regime of Dr.Midget-Mouse Singh have the ghoulies to act,as it now resembles the crumbling Greek govt.,beset with scam and inflation woes and after Mamta B has thrown down the gauntlet about the oil price hikes? There is an acute danger that the non-operationalisation of the plant due to the agitation will engineer a N-disaster all of our own making because the GOI did not safeguard the plant enough?

PS:The papers today say that the plant's safety is at grave risk due to the blockade by the protestors who include foreigners.The protests have seen the Russian technicians leave and a small handfull of staff are currently keeping the plant in working order.13,000 crores is at stake,not to mention the nation's entire N-power policies.If the GOI does not act now and fast a catastrophe will occur.The plant must be declared a key national security asset and the armed forces deployed to protect the plant,taking whatever measures are needed to safeguard it.The police and para-forces can deal with the protesters in their own customary style.When we now know that the aim and objective of the protest leaders and their foreign puppet-masters is to destroy the plant,why are we not acting agsinst these quislings,traitors and foreign agents at all? The foreign agents must be arrested in charges of not just espionage but waging war against the nation and should if need be as an example to the world that India will act to protect its own interests especially when attempts are being made to sabotage an Indian N-plant on our own soil! As I said before in Central Rule has to be imposed upon the state for a time in case off a law and order problem,it MUST be done.The KKM protests have the most sinister motive behind it and the GOI has no alternative but to act to safegurd the nation's security.All matters regarding the AEC,nuclear issues,tc. comes directly under the PM.He has to act and if he can't then he must GO!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

Hindu Op Ed,on Sunday, 6th Nov 2011. (Hindu usually does not have an Opinion Section on Sundays, so this is special)
Nuclear power is our gateway to a prosperous future by Dr APJAK

A very well written article, whole heartedly recommended.

I hear that Dr APJAK will be going to Koodangulam to see for himself safety measures incorporated in the npps there.

With particular reference to the Fukushima events, I hope he will ask these three questions, get the answers and satisfy himself.

1) Tsunami: At present the expected maximum tsunami wave height at Koodangulam is said to be about 7 metres. The protection measures such wave-breakers (energy absorbers), and plinth levels of various safety related buildings are based on this estimation. Dr Kalam should satisfy himself that this estimation is based on analyses by competent persons and is credible. I think he will find it so.

2) Earthquake: Plant and building design is based on peak ground level horizontal and vertical acceleration (PGA) that the Koodangulam site will experience in the case of worst postulated scenario. Using this as the basic values, seismic forces and stresses on each safety related equipment are calculated using well established computational models and the components accordingly designed. Dr Kalam should satisfy himself that estimation of the PGA and subsequent analyses / designs have been carried out by competent persons and are credible. I think he will find them so.

3) Beyond Design Basis Accidents (BDA): He may like to review the BDA scenarios that have been taken into account in the safety evaluation and satisfy himself that they are in order. I think he will find them so.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

He also needs to allay fears regarding the KKNPP being a threat to the livelihood of the fishermen.

Anyway, the KKNPP Opposition Committee has already said that they were not interested in meeting him. I hope they would not stand in the way of his interaction with the locals.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

There are Nuclear Disaster /Accident simulation softwares which simulate various scenario and outcome.Has it been done in case of KKNPP? What were the results? Should it not be known or explained to the public?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vera_k »

I must say all this discussion of church involvement is besides the point. In political terms, the "church" is the same as UPA, so this is a UPA vs. AIADMK issue.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by ramana »

Philip wrote:Ditto! I suppose these eminent personalities are better experts than the AEC an those scientists who have run India's N-plants for decades and the Russian designers and engineers who have set up the plant.Praful Bidwai incidentally is held in high esteem by his Paki counterparts.

Philip, See last name in the above panel.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

^^ Are you talking about Capt Subbarao.? Here is one side of the story.

MANUSHI/Issue 108

When an award-winning naval scientist is framed under false charges, forced to undergo 20 months of imprisonment, dragged into court for five long years and finally awarded an abysmal acquittal, his career and emotional well-being in shambles - all because a paranoid establishment is trying desperately to hide its flaws - we have transgressed all sense of justice.
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Dr Subbarao, 57, is a former captain of the Indian Navy. He took voluntary retirement in 1987 after 25 years of distinguished service. Having stood first in Electrical Engineering (B.E.) from the Andhra Pradesh University in 1963, he joined the Indian Navy the same year.
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However, Subbarao pursued the special interests he had acquired through academics and wrote a doctorate thesis. In 1985, Subbarao was awarded a Ph.D by the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay for his thesis "Nuclear Power Plant Modelling and Design Multivariable Control Approach".

In 1987, Subbarao took voluntary retirement. He readied himself for academics and consultancy in computer systems.
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Around this time, Gopi Krishan Arora, Secretary of Information and Broadcasting, sounded Subbarao on Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi's offer to become the Technical Head of the nuclear submarine project. However, Subbarao was not satisfied in getting appointed to such a position by an executive order of the Prime Minister. Therefore, he suggested to the Prime Minister that a Selection Committee be formed which would scrutinise the candidature of BARC scientists for the post as well. Rajiv Gandhi was pleased with this notion and it was to be executed when Subbarao returned from the USA.
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To add insult to injury, even a Supreme Court Judge, Justice A.M.Ahmadi (later Chief Justice of India)[of Bhopal case and much tainted] was taken in by the false affidavit filed by the special prosecutors (Mrs. Manjula Rao and Mr. B.R.Handa) and the police, on behalf of the State of Maharashtra. When a conscientious judge of the Bombay High Court tried to render some justice to Subbarao and granted him temporary medical bail, Justice Ahmadi acted high-handedly, not only cancelling the bail but also passing strictures against the High Court judge. Justice Ahmadi also repeatedly refused permission to Subbarao to appear-in-person before the Supreme Court. The unfortunate part was that even after it became clear that the case got bolstered from the false affidavit filed before the Supreme Court, there was no zeal in Justice Ahmadi to remedy the miscarriage of justice caused by his orders. ........


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Shocked by the facts of the case, Justice V. D. Tulzapurkar, former Judge of the Supreme Court, expressed publicly that there was "miscarriage of justice on account of inaccurate, untrue and misleading statements made by the prosecuting agency before several courts in the unfortunate case against Dr B. K. Subbarao." He added, "I hope the Apex Court Judges muster Himalayan courage to admit and rectify a Hiamalyan blunder... The only other way of making proper amends would be by the State of Maharashtra who had launched the prosecution against Dr Subbarao, declaring publicly that it was an ill- conceived prosecution, tendering unqualified apology and paying him substantial compensation, unlike the meagre amount of Rs 25,000 awarded to him by the Supreme Court.."

....

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A new development in the case took place when, in 1994, it came to light that the former attorney-general, K. Parasaran had been informed by the then Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) and Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), Dr M. R. Srinivasan, that Subbarao was not carrying any atomic or defence secrets and the Ph.D thesis found in his suitcase was not a classified document. Hence, there was no violation of the Official Secrets Act, and surely no grounds for starting a criminal case against Subbarao. Dr Srinivasan disclosed these facts in a signed article in Hindu. "I find it reprehensible that a naval officer who performed well has been treated so badly by the CBI. The agony that Subbarao and his family have had to endurecan never be adequately compensated," he wrote. It appeared that Parasaran had chosen to ignore Srinivasan's opinion and given an 'illegal' sanction to implicate Subbarao.

In light of the above development, Dr Subbarao filed an application before the Supreme Court questioning the basis on which the highest law officer of the land, the Attorney General of India, K. Parasaran had given his consent to prosecute him. He also questioned the basis of 'authorisation' by Joint Secretary in the Department of Atomic Energy, S. K. Bhandarkar to the prosecution, when the Secretary in the Department had declined his involvement.

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Dr Subbarao finally submitted a petition to the President of India in April, 1998 which hasn't found a response as yet.
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The other side of the story was here
No citation though.
Now that an American observer - no less than their ambassador in Delhi himself - has indicated that Capt. Subbarao was indeed an American Confidential Informant. I wonder how all those Indians who put their faith in the Non-Proliferation sponsorred lies will feel about their spirited opposition to a government of India that they assumed was incompetent.
Final wordings of judgement
When I asked Mr. Vakil what his clients had to say about all that the accused has been subjected to, he tried hard to convince me that the accused has only been prosecuted and not persecuted. He has failed to do so. This proceeding has all the makings of an inquisition.[should we continue the inquisition ]
It is, however, clarified that it is open to the accused, if he so desired, to adopt appropriate proceedings. Mrs. Usha Purohit persisted in her plea that having evaluated the record, this Court must, in the interests of fairness and propriety, award compensation as the Supreme Court has done in numerous cases, a list of which she referred to. It is precisely on these grounds that even though the award of heavy compensation is justified, I have defarred the issue because such compensation will have to be commensurate with the damage and may have to be directed against certain individuals apart from the State, all of whom will have to be heard.
At the conclusion of his judgment, the learned Additional Sessions Judge has held that in the view which he has taken that the accused is required to be discharged. A submission was convassed by Dr. Subbarao and by learned Counsel Mrs. Usha Purohit that order of the learned Additional Sessions Judge discharging the accused is not a correct order in law. It is their submission that the scheme of the Code of Criminal Procedure requires that a Court can exercise the powers of the discharge of an accused at any stage prior to the framing of the charge. It is, therefore, their contention that it is not permissible for a Court, and that too for a trial Court, to do anything that is outside the specific provisions of law as set out in the Code of Criminal Procedure. Regardless of the fact that the trial Courts are not invested with any inherent powers, there is no dispute about the fact that the procedure in a criminal trial is strictly circumscribed to the provisions of the Code of Criminal Procedure. It is equally correct that under the provisions relating to trials before a Court of Session that the Court can discharge the accused prior to the framing of the charge if there is insufficient material or if on any ground of law the Court finds that it is not permissible to frame a charge. After the stage of framing of the charge, the Code of Criminal Procedure prescribes that there can be only one of the two conclusions to the trial, either the accused is convicted or he is acquitted. If, for any reason, the trial has proceeded beyond the stage of framing of the charge and the plea has been taken, an order of discharge will not be permissible. No evidence has been led in the present case on the basis of which the Court could have convicted the accused. The learned Additional Sessions Judge came to the conclusion that the law did not permit him to proceed with the trial from the stage at which he was and the learned Additional Sessions Judge, therefore, recorded the conclusion that the accused stands discharged. To my mind, this conclusion was incorrect in so far as the only order that the learned Additional Sessions Judge could have passed was an order of acquittal. Under these circumstances, the order of the learned Additional Sessions Judge requires to be modified to the extent that the accused stands acquitted and not discharged.

58. In the result, for the reasons indicated by me, in this judgment, the Criminal Revision Application filed by the State fails and, accordingly, stands dismissed. The rule to stand discharged
.
Last edited by chaanakya on 06 Nov 2011 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
merlin
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by merlin »

Hmm. Its out now that the church is behind this blatant attempt to stop progress in the Indian nuclear energy sector. They see no reason to stay in the shadows now. Very unfortunate to see Jaillalitha take an anti-national stand.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

Ramanna,noted well.Is his case in particular a case of inter-dept./service rivalry -a personal vendetta case/victimisation desiring revenge,or a genuine case of working for a foreign power? There has been so much written about his case that has confused the issue.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

Sanatanan wrote:Hindu Op Ed,on Sunday, 6th Nov 2011. (Hindu usually does not have an Opinion Section on Sundays, so this is special)
Nuclear power is our gateway to a prosperous future by Dr APJAK

A very well written article, whole heartedly recommended.

I hear that Dr APJAK will be going to Koodangulam to see for himself safety measures incorporated in the npps there.

With particular reference to the Fukushima events, I hope he will ask these three questions, get the answers and satisfy himself.

1) Tsunami: At present the expected maximum tsunami wave height at Koodangulam is said to be about 7 metres. The protection measures such wave-breakers (energy absorbers), and plinth levels of various safety related buildings are based on this estimation. Dr Kalam should satisfy himself that this estimation is based on analyses by competent persons and is credible. I think he will find it so.

2) Earthquake: Plant and building design is based on peak ground level horizontal and vertical acceleration (PGA) that the Koodangulam site will experience in the case of worst postulated scenario. Using this as the basic values, seismic forces and stresses on each safety related equipment are calculated using well established computational models and the components accordingly designed. Dr Kalam should satisfy himself that estimation of the PGA and subsequent analyses / designs have been carried out by competent persons and are credible. I think he will find them so.

3) Beyond Design Basis Accidents (BDA): He may like to review the BDA scenarios that have been taken into account in the safety evaluation and satisfy himself that they are in order. I think he will find them so.
Good article by APJ Abdul Kalam. His words would carry more weight . Most of the arguments have been analysed threadbare in BRF.

He indicates target of 950,000 MW of electricity by 2032(Integrated Energy Policy 2006 by Planning Commission). ( it is one of the scenario by Planning Commission) . The target addition of Nuclear power is about 63,000 MW( comprising 5.95% of total energy mix) during the same period. So it does not make sense to talk about CO2 , global warming, Coal burning , cost of power, requirement of energy etc when planned addition from other sources are 737,000 MW . Can anybody inform us how 63GW addition against requirement of 950GW can solve India's energy problem by 2032?

He has talked about Coal burning underground in Jharia . How does it help the cause of Nuclear Energy? Or for that matter how does Nuclear power stop the burning of coal underground in Jharia?

It seems that he favours Thorium route.If that is the case then he is defending Nuclear Power and not KKNPP. Here is what he notes about Thorium.
One question that crops up is, why then has Uranium rather than Thorium become the popular choice for nuclear energy programmes across the world? There are two reasons: one is technological and the other is historical.

The technological reason stems from the simple fact that at first one needs to produce Uranium-233 from Thorium, and for this, reactors based on the naturally available nuclear fuel material, Uranium-235, are required. In addition, the recovery of Uranium-233 by large-scale reprocessing of irradiated thorium, as well as the likely presence of hard gamma emitting Uranium-232, pose certain practical hurdles. But according to experts, all these can be overcome technologically.

The second and the historical reason why Thorium has lagged behind in the ladder of development, comes from its advantage of being able to provide Thorium-based fuel, as seen from the context of the relatively unstable geopolitical conditions — which is that Thorium cannot be weaponised. Unlike Uranium, which is always on a tight-rope walk between being a power source and finding destructive applications, Thorium bombs just cannot be made. Here history steps in. It must be remembered that much of the current civil nuclear applications are direct offshoots of the military nuclear technologies of the Cold War period. So, the first significant outcome of nuclear technology was the Manhattan Project during the Second World War, which ultimately culminated in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing of 1945 by the U.S.

A nuclear weapon is different from a nuclear plant, as in the former there is no need to control or slow down the reactions that lead to a catastrophic energy release in a short time interval — which is the essence of a bomb. However, a nuclear plant needs moderation of the reaction to sustain a steady but controlled release of energy. It was only by the end of 1951 that some noteworthy work was done in controlled nuclear power generation at the EBR-1 experiment in Idaho to produce 100 KW of nuclear power. This “weapon first” approach to nuclear technology led to the fact that there was little focus on developing methods to energise from Thorium, which is non-weaponisable, and a larger focus on Uranium, which can be weaponised.

But now, being the largest owner of Thorium, and also being amongst the nations which will see the highest surge in power demand with its growth, the opportunity is for India to pursue its existing nuclear programme with a special focus on research and development on the Thorium route as the long term sustainable option, which we are already undertaking. For this purpose, it is imperative to continue to implement the current Indian plan of making use of the uranium and plutonium-based fuel cycle technologies as well as irradiate larger amounts of Thorium in fast reactors to breed Uranium-233 fuel as it graduates to the Thorium-based plants. It is noteworthy that the Indian plan for an advanced heavy water reactor (AHWR) is an important step to launch early commencement of Thorium utilisation in India, while considerable further efforts to use Thorium in both thermal and fast reactors would be essential to harness sustainable energy from Thorium-generated Uranium-233.

Various technologies for Thorium-based plants are already being developed and deployed on a test basis across the world including in India, which have a promising future. These include first breeding it to fissile Uranium-233 isotope in the conventional reactors or through the revived interest in technologies like the Molten Salt Reactors (MSR) which use salts to trap the fissile material and do not react with air or burn in air or water. In this technology, the operational pressure is near the ordinary atmospheric pressure, and hence the cost of construction is low and there is no risk of a pressure explosion
This is what IEP2006 notes in conclusion for Nuclear Energy
The pace of development of nuclear power is constrained by the rate at which plutonium can be bred and Thorium converted to fissile material. If India is able to import nuclear fuel, the process can be accelerated. Two possible growth paths of nuclear power are summarised in Table 3.4.

br 2032-63 GW and by 2050-275 GWe, optimistic provided India imports LWRs. The reason for 123.

Notes:-These estimates assume that the FBR technology is successfully demonstrated by the 500 MW PFBR currently under construction, new Uranium mines are opened for providing fuel for setting up additional PHWRs, India succeeds in assimilating the LWR technology through import and develops the Advanced Heavy Water Reactor for utilising Thorium by 2020.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

The key question for us is

How to improve Energy Efficiency of GDP when Energy intensity of GDP is increasing. Improving productivity is the task that we need to tackle on warfooting.
This is underscored by PM in 2006 while releasing IEP2006
Expressing serious concern over the unsustainable 40-50 percent power losses in transmission and distribution losses in several parts of the country, the prime minister stressed the need for new management strategies to cope with this harsh reality.
If you loose 40% power in T&D and add 6% and say we achieve energy security. Laughable
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Experiment at Kalpakkam for a bio-shield for tsunami
A few kilometres inside the Kalpakkam nuclear facility in Tamil Nadu a unique experiment is under way. The results of the experiment will not only protect the reactors during a tsunami but also produce fruit-bearing trees, like sapota and gooseberry, said Dr M.H. Mehta, Chairman of the National Bioshield Society.

The Department of Atomic Energy after the 2004 Indonesian tsunami realised the importance of mangroves in protecting the nuclear plants and started developing a ‘bioshield'— multi-tiered coastal vegetation — to reduce the impact of tsunamis and coastal flooding.

In 2007, the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR), a unit of the Department of Atomic Energy at Kalpakkam, took the lead in developing the shield, consisting of mangroves as well as salt-tolerant plants and trees. It has planted them at three locations in the facility.

IGCAR took the help of the National Bioshield Society and M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation for developing the shield. The three organisations collectively managed to crack the code of growing trees, plants and shrubs in a saline environment.

Dr Mehta, a former Vice-Chancellor of the Gujarat Agriculture University, told Business Line that the saline soil at Kalpakkam was used for cultivation by adding organic compost and clay, which helped in sustaining plants and trees. Both the ingredients gave essential nutrients to trees and plants, he said.

Dr Mehta said the multi-layered vegetation will protect all coastal nuclear power plants in the future. Just like the mangroves, it will act as a buffer in protecting the facilities, he said.

About 13 varieties of common and fruit-bearing trees have been planted at the site. The fruit-bearing trees are Malay apple, ramphal, sapota, guava, sweet lime, gooseberry and pomegranate. Salicornia, a salt-tolerant local plant, has also been planted. Cashew can also be grown in that soil but it has not been planted for security reasons as it is a bushy tree.
Implications

An expert on condition of anonymity said the successful planting of trees and plants in saline soil at Kalpakkam has immense implications for Indian agriculture. Vast tracks of saline land along the country's seacoast could be brought under cultivation, which will only add to food security, the expert said.

“On the coast, Salicornia or sea asparagus should be also promoted, as it has good market overseas for gourmet cooking. From the plant, a low sodium salt can also be extracted, which will prove to be boon for chemical companies and for hypertension patients,” the expert said.

However, Mr Vivek Kulkarni, expert on mangroves and coastal vegetation, warned that growing fruit and other varieties of trees and plants in coastal areas will bring its own set of problems. “As soon as growing of plants takes a form of agriculture, it will add insecticides and other pollutants into the marine environment, which cannot be controlled,” he said.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by shravan »

No talks with Kalam on Koodankulam: PMANE
http://expressbuzz.com/topnews/no-talks ... gM.twitter
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:He also needs to allay fears regarding the KKNPP being a threat to the livelihood of the fishermen.

Anyway, the KKNPP Opposition Committee has already said that they were not interested in meeting him. I hope they would not stand in the way of his interaction with the locals.
The primary objection here is from the "fishermen" who mostly belong to one particular community and have benefited from "tsunami" politics which completely and forcefully excluded all other communities. All the new "pucca" houses and loans have been cornered by this group.

These guys have become unbelievably prosperous and fat on the incoming foreign funds which flooded the area unchecked during the aftermath of the tsunami "aid".

They are known for their extremely violent ways and other predatory tactics to continue to corner all the benefits in this coastal zone.

Having paid the piper, the ones who paid them are now calling the tune. The pinpointing of the source of the earlier and even now continuing flow of funds will lead you the identity of the troublemaker and you will find that they mostly lead to a large north american dude and thence to the bitterly disappointed commercial lobby that thought that they would have easy pickings by selling baubles to the heathen natives.

If this continues, clamp presidents rule on TN and boot amma out. A cape does not a superwoman make!!

Another subtler process may have already started with the courts insisting on personal appearance of amma for her Bangalore court case. A very short distance to conviction and a long sojourn in Tihar without bail while amma gets cosy with kani?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

KKNPP is 100% safe, Kalam
Former President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, who is on a mission to allay fears about the safety of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant, on Sunday said it was ‘completely safe’ as it is located in a low frequency seismic zone, a view rejected by the locals.

Mr. Kalam, who held discussions with scientists and engineers of the Indo-Russian Joint Venture, including Nuclear Power Corporation Chairman S.K. Jain, said, “The plant is safe in all aspects.”

“There is no need to worry about the safety aspect of the plant, as it is in a low frequent seismic zone. There is also no threat of a Tsunami as the plant is 1,300 km away from the seismic centre point. Besides, the plant is 13.5 metres above sea level,” Mr. Kalam, a votary of nuclear energy, said.

Mr. Kalam’s visit comes amid the continuing standoff on the Rs 13,600 crore Indo-Russian project, whose first unit was scheduled to be commissioned in December.

Officials said the agitation by locals against the project has upset the scheduled commissioning.

Mr. Kalam said all safety aspects, including automatic cooling of the plant in the event of generator failure after power goes off, ‘double wall’ protection for KNPP workers inside and outside, structural safety and container to store the 25 per cent residual fuel from the plant have been provided.

He said he was also sure that there would be no damage to the surrounding environment with the setting up of the plant.

Mr. Kalam said ‘Bath Tub’ facility has been provided to flush core melt waste. “There is a solution in the tub which will take care of all radiation problems. There will be no radiation at all. The workers inside and outside the plant are 100 per cent safe.”
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Pratyush »

SS,

The agitation was never about the safety of the Nuke reactors and the nuke power plant. You can wake up a man who is asleep. But you cannot wake man who is pretending to be asleep.

So when Kalam talks of nuke reactor and the plant being safe, it is not really going to convince any one.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

"Dr. M.P. Parameswaran, India's first Ph.D.-holder in nuclear engineering and worked at Bhaba Atomic Research Centre (BARC) during 1957-1975;"

Indias Phirst pee chaddi in cew-clear indjineering is an active worker of CPI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._P._Parameswaran


"Dr. V. Pugazhendi a medical practitioner studying the impact of Kalpakkam nuclear power plants on the local environment, people and plant workers; "


This one is a class joker... G- chacha revealed some of the djinn medicine that the guy is propagating... Put a daaktar tag in front of your name and bingo...you are the king...I am dr . bla bla bla..drinking my piss can cure cancer....



"Dr. R. Ramesh a medical practitioner, who has written books on the geology of Kudankulam; "

I don't remember them teaching geology in med-school.. May be I was biji with my GF.....

"Capt. B.K. Subbarao, formerly Captain, Indian Navy and advocate Supreme Court of India."

A known amreeki agint...

see I told ya ... all this is amreeki conspiracy...I ll not be surprised if CPI receives funds from the US... The easiest thing to keep Yindia backword is to make them commies ...


br 2032-63 GW and by 2050-275 GWe, optimistic provided India imports LWRs. The reason for 123.
Yindia is waarking of several indigenous dejines ... so beyond a point there will not be any imports... But there will be exports for sure...and Indian compaies can by uranium mines any where in the world...that is the whole purpose of all the n-deal....
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Pratyush wrote:So when Kalam talks of nuke reactor and the plant being safe, it is not really going to convince any one.
The protest leaders had already said, before hearing a word of Dr. Kalam, that they would not listen to him.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Kanson »

We know knowledge leads to enlightenment. But do we know how half baked knowledge leads to disaster - one can look and understand from the people who leads anti KKNPP protest. I took some time to understand the arguments of Udaykumar against KKNPP, I could only reach this conclusion.

His logic is like this. For him, Air travel is not safe, there are many ways flying plane can fall down. When countered with the fact about Parachutes and other fail safe options for the safety, he comes back to say he has no confidence in the Indian made Parachute as Indian products are known for low quality. Well, with this people what you can do! The way he made the arguments, he is not looking for solving the problem!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Pratyush »

There is only one solution. Use of force to break the deadlock and complete the plant. Those who don't want the plant, don't get energy from it. That's all.

If for those people the designed safety features are not sufficient. Then nothing can help them.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by suryag »

Isnt Dr.Subba Rao's son the guy imprisoned in the US for some hate message he sent out during 9/11 ?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

"We don't want to meet Kalam (because we can't argue our case with him)...." are the unspoken words.Our former President and scientist extraordinary,Dr.Kalam is not worthy enough and educated enough to meet the Einsteins and Newtons like Udaykumar and his crony corrupt cassocked churchmen!

Chetak has spoken about how tsunami aid has been leveraged into this current conspiracy.I have on the Lankan thread time and time again given examples how tsunami relief was being manipulated in Lanka as an opportunity for conversions by crack US teams of aging "Peace Corps" style cadre.In fact,the entire root of the Eelam wars was to create a separate "Tamil" entity,either fully independent or quasi-independent, just south of the Indian subcontinent to wean away TN one day.The role of the church in northern Lanka supporting the LTTE is an historical fact.The soft underbelly of India is Tamil Nadu,where rogue "Christian" outfits,fat on the funds received from America are behaving like quislings and acting as catspaws and fifth columnists for the Yanquis.The use of foreign NGOs was the method used in Northern Lanka,and the very same method is now being used to create a national crisis at KKM.

The GOI should clamp down immediately on the region of agitation,send in a massive force of paras and even military outfits and from now on treat Tamilnadu as a border state with "hostile" foreign activity within.One complication in TN is that a large % of the police force comes from the southern districts of TN ,where the activities of the quislings is highest.For family and clan connections,there might be a reluctance on the part of the local police to act against the quislings and one can understand the extreme delicacy with which the TN empress is handling the situ.It appears that evey chance is being given to a peaceful resolution of the controversy,but the foreign hand behind the agits wants nothing else but a disaster,a law and order crisis,or even a catastrophe at the plant which would destroy the poss. of more Russian reactors being built in India, and extract revenge upon India for daring to pass the N-Liability bill in Parliament which did not curtail the figure of liability to just $300m.

This is why central forces are now required.The local police forces can however provide excellent intel about the dubious characters spearheading the anti-plant movement.With the activities of these quislings also aided by pro Eelamists,also acting at their master's behest,TN has all the makings of another J&K.If we do not act now and "chop off the heads of the snakes",the situ will explode .
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by arnab »

If I may say something, the KK issue and its potential fallout is the very thing that GP, Amit and others had been warning about for a while. I find it strange that members cannot sense the anomaly here. You cannot run a political campaign against the nuke deal by - playing up fears, dissing nuclear technology , denigrating LWRs and scorning the nuclear liability regime in general and hope that the fallout will remain quarantined to Jaitpur or simply the UPA regime (not for lack of trying though :) ).

It is very obvious that sooner or later people will ask that if nuke technology is so bad and the nuclear liability regime is so flawed, why the fck are we building Russian plants with an even worse liability outcome in place?
People will ask - what is it that makes Indian designed PHWRs super duper safer than the ‘developed’ country nuke technology? (good luck providing a non-technical response to this) :)
I know in the current environment it is too much to ask members to be apolitical, but it would help if we remain objective (hat tip JeM).

In the meanwhile GOI will do what it must – but nice of us to help the NPAs possibly snatch a victory from the jaws of defeat.

I know the current angst against the nuke deal is that it is allowing us to buy reactors and uranium but it is not giving us ENR technology – so what is the use? :roll: , but kindly cast your mind back to the PVNR / MMS economic liberalization of the 1990s. We at the time wanted investment in critical technologies and high end manufacturing sectors but our very first FDI was well – Lehar Pepsi !! So what we got was technology for making sugared water and potato chips. That’s where it all began and in 20 years here is where we are – the 4th largest economy in the world, with the entire world falling over to sell us high end technology.

So if it helps reset your moral compass – go back and read a bit.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by kshatriya »

Atleast the Tamils who don't belong to the community that is protesting now know what these guys stand for.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sum »

^^ Have to congratulate the agencies who have successfully brought the entire GoI and its machinery to its knees with a very skillful psy-ops operation by using their pawns at the right time.( and have to castigate our counter-intel agencies for failing to nip it in the bud)

Its now clear that you cannot awaken a man pretending to be asleep and the current stance of the protesters about dismantling the N-plant and nothing less than that eerily suggests the pretending to be asleep syndrome.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

gakakkad wrote:" . so beyond a point there will not be any imports. ...
Did GOI pronounced this policy or astrologers foretold this??
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

suryag wrote:Isnt Dr.Subba Rao's son the guy imprisoned in the US for some hate message he sent out during 9/11 ?

yes

One would have thought that some modicum of intelligence would have percolated to the gen next.
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