Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Sep 2011 06:54

shiv wrote:^Rman coming from you it is easier to believe. Justice would be served only if Paki perfidy is rooted out. I think the US owes India here.

US is not stupid. There are 2 factors that go into terrorism (or any other military campaign). Capability and intent. Leaving the capability intact and hoping for good intentions has not worked for the US for so long. Any idiot will then see that the only way out is to degrade the capability of TSP to send in yahoos.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 27 Sep 2011 06:58

Keep giving aid and also buy our products

Finance Minister Abdul Hafeez Shaikh, on a visit to Washington for annual IMF and World Bank meetings, said Monday that trade would be key to turning around his country's economy, saying that aid handouts were not a long-term solution. "We are not looking for (a) perpetual kind of government-to-government help. What we are looking for is a chance for our people to be allowed to compete with the rest," Shaikh said at the Atlantic Council think tank. "We feel if we are simply allowed to trade like other countries, if barriers are not imposed... we will do just fine," he said. Pakistan has also been pressing for years for greater access to the US market for textiles, hoping that the private sector can lead its economy forward.

The United States in 2009 approved a five-year, $7.5 billion-dollar civilian assistance package for Pakistan, but some US lawmakers have sought to cut civilian aid due to concerns over extremism. Admiral Mike Mullen, the outgoing chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, charged last week that Pakistani intelligence was involved in attacks on US interests in Afghanistan.

American citizens should boycott Pakistani products even if the American government succumbs to these new Paki demands.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2011 07:02

Anujan wrote:
shiv wrote:^Rman coming from you it is easier to believe. Justice would be served only if Paki perfidy is rooted out. I think the US owes India here.
US is not stupid. There are 2 factors that go into terrorism (or any other military campaign). Capability and intent. Leaving the capability intact and hoping for good intentions has not worked for the US for so long. Any idiot will then see that the only way out is to degrade the capability of TSP to send in yahoos.

There are two ways out

1. One is for the US to take out the Haqqani network on its own along with any other outfits that may mysteriously arise while they continue to fund and arm the Paki army while begging and appealing to Pakistani "good senses" that jihad is bad for the Islamic republic of Pakistan

2, The second is to announce an end of aid to the main jihadi army in the world, the Pakistani army so that they will be unable to afford the luxury of having deniable proxies fight for them.

Nothing that I have seen or read so far suggests to me that the US is going to take route 2 over route 1 above. I have to take your word for it that the US is not stupid.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Sep 2011 07:18

NYT is Unkil govt mouthpiece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/world ... icans.html

Pakistanis Tied to 2007 Border Ambush on Americans

A group of American military officers and Afghan officials had just finished a five-hour meeting with their Pakistani hosts in a village schoolhouse settling a border dispute when they were ambushed — by the Pakistanis.

Colonel Kuchai remembers the way the senior Pakistani officers left the yard minutes before the shooting without saying goodbye, behavior that he now interprets as a sign that they knew what was coming.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 27 Sep 2011 07:26

Standard tactic of unkil releasing what they perceive to be "embarrassing" info for pacquis. Prepping for "harsh" measures to come. No other reason for this news to come out now; 4+ years later.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Sep 2011 07:29

Anujan wrote:NYT is Unkil govt mouthpiece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/world ... icans.html

Pakistanis Tied to 2007 Border Ambush on Americans

A group of American military officers and Afghan officials had just finished a five-hour meeting with their Pakistani hosts in a village schoolhouse settling a border dispute when they were ambushed — by the Pakistanis.

Colonel Kuchai remembers the way the senior Pakistani officers left the yard minutes before the shooting without saying goodbye, behavior that he now interprets as a sign that they knew what was coming.

So why is the New York Times raking up the ambush by the Security Forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan at Teri Mangal that resulted in the death of Major Larry J. Bauguess Jr an operations officer with the US 82nd Airborne Division that dates all the way back to May 14, 2007?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2011 07:36

^^
I think the Americans. like the Pakis have huge skeletons in their cupboard which the Pakis will cause to come tumbling out making it necesary for the U to pull out Paki skeletons.

The real secrets that US and Pakis share are the "good times of bonhomie and friendship" when all sorts of things were "allowed" by the US with a wink and a nod as Pakis hit Indians and others apart from the Soviets. No wonder the Pakis are able to call the Haqqanis a CIA blue eyed boy without batting an eyelid.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Sep 2011 07:50

^^^
pakis are khan's taliban. It is all fractal onlee but we are supposed to pretend it isn't.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2011 07:51

ranjbe wrote: Obama cannot afford to be called a wimp (as he is called so often these days) one year before reelections.

A very interesting statement, if true. The Amercans, like their Pakistani allies lay great emphasis on not "looking like wimps." They must appear tough and macho. They will IMO take actions that appear tough even if the actions are symbolic and temporary.

You know this great psychological need to "appear" courageous and not cowardly is a trait that Americans and Pakis share. A man is judged by whether is he seen as a wimp or not. He must not be seen as a wimp even if he is otherwise a complete disaster - like Dubya.

Sudhir Kakar has written a book on the psychology of Indians n which he has a chapter that deals with attitudes towards "manliness" and what is effeminate. In general he points out that Indian men have habits like holding hands or walking with arms around each others' shoulders in ways that are perceived to be effeminate from a Western American viewpoint. Indian soldiers may do that but are nowhere near wimps. It is a cultural thing. Add that fact to the article on BRF that pointed out how a Paki accused Indian men of being cowardly like women because Indian men wear colored clothes and not plain mud coloured shalwar suits like the real men, Pakistanis.

Many Indians who go abroad quickly figure out how they are supposed to behave so as to not be tagged as effeminate or gay. One of the warnings I received from a classmate of mine when I first stepped into the uK (he had been there 6 months before me) was that I was not to put my arm around the shoulder of a male friend or even hold his hand apart from a handshake because that would make me gay.

It strikes me that all this bullshit about "macho" and "wimp" is more about appearances. Those appearances seem to be a big deal for Americans, And Pakis. Made for each other

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Sep 2011 07:53

shiv wrote:^^
I think the Americans. like the Pakis have huge skeletons in their cupboard which the Pakis will cause to come tumbling out making it necesary for the U to pull out Paki skeletons.

The real secrets that US and Pakis share are the "good times of bonhomie and friendship" when all sorts of things were "allowed" by the US with a wink and a nod as Pakis hit Indians and others apart from the Soviets. No wonder the Pakis are able to call the Haqqanis a CIA blue eyed boy without batting an eyelid.

Could be something to do with CIA-AQ joint ops in ayyorope and cheeecheeenayaa

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Sep 2011 07:57

It is possible that the Pakis did it to "save face". This is a repeated pattern of behavior by the Pakis. Remember the time when NATO fired on Paki border guards in Kurram and the Raymond Davis affair. The Abbottabad raid was taken as a HUGE insult by the Pakis.

If Unkil has learned anything from this, they will know where to stick in the bamboo.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 27 Sep 2011 08:01

And now is the turn of C Rajamohan.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/an-er ... n/852361/0
An Era Draws Down

Central to Rawalpindi’s calculus is the bet that the US does not have too many options left in Afghanistan and that, with sufficient pressure, Washington will be compelled to accommodate the Pakistan army’s interests across the Durand Line.
Many in Pakistan’s strategic community seem quite convinced that Washington needs Rawalpindi more than the other way round.

An insight into Pakistan’s new thinking came when Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and General Kayani met Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Kabul last April.
Leaked reports on the meeting indicated that Gilani and Kayani had warned Karzai not to offer military bases to the US after it pulls out most of its troops by 2014. They told Karzai that America was on the decline and that Kabul would be better off looking towards Pakistan and China to find political accommodation with the Taliban and develop the Afghan economy.

Rising China’s massive economic and military resources, the Pakistan army’s control over a vital geopolitical real estate, and the resurgence of the Taliban and other extremist forces will present India with unprecedented difficulties.
Nearly four generations of Indian leaders have had the luxury of posturing against the West. As Rawalpindi, Beijing and the Taliban get the better of Washington in Afghanistan, Delhi must prepare to confront the consequences of American decline and a stronger China-Pakistan alliance at its borderlands.

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Sep 2011 08:13

^^^ The view of C.Rajamohan regards the drivers for the bellicosity of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is not very dissimilar to that of Sadanand Dhume:

arun wrote:Sadanand Dhume in the Wall Street Journal:

Playing Chicken with Pakistan's Generals : Because the U.S. always blinks first, the Pakistani army thinks it has the upper hand.

An Excerpt:

To the average onlooker, such bluster from a country with an economy about the size of Romania's may be baffling. To understand it one has to see how Pakistan's ruling elites, in particular the generals who call the shots on foreign policy and national security, have come to view their country: as the geopolitical equivalent of a giant bank that's too big to fail.

After all, which other country houses 180 million Muslims, the world's fastest-growing nuclear arsenal, a plethora of jihadist groups in proximity to those weapons, an "all-weather" friendship with China, and a choke-hold on supplies to NATO forces in Afghanistan? By this logic, the U.S., scarred by its experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, can do little more than mouth disapproval and threaten to cut off aid.

The generals might have a point in seeing the world this way. There's little reason to believe that Washington would have shown such forbearance toward its putative ally—the ISI's relationships with the Haqqanis and the Afghan Taliban have hardly been secret—if Pakistan didn't have nuclear weapons or control major supply lines into Afghanistan. As long as they possess this leverage, they think they can keep up their brinksmanship.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 27 Sep 2011 08:15

Sen. Kirk on Morning Joe discussing US military aid to Pakistan and India's role in Afghanistan

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upA_jCWQiz8[/youtube]

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 27 Sep 2011 08:44

Nearly four generations of Indian leaders have had the luxury of posturing against the West.

What if Indians in India and overseas raise $1 billion (as a token) for the coming American war effort?

Will India as a nation consider it immoral, pandering to the base Hindu nature? Will it be a lost opportunity for some seriously sonorously stentorian sentences in support of a small third world emerging country? Further evidence in support of the two nation theory?

Would Pakistanis resent it as against the aman ki aasha spirit?

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 27 Sep 2011 08:53

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nearly four generations of Indian leaders have had the luxury of posturing against the West.

Sir,

It is not necessary to raise any money for the American war effort. All we need to do is recognize that the West headed by the US is the weakest power in our neighborhood and everybody else who have grown relatively more powerful vis-a-vis the West are our enemies. What that means is that we need to "bolster" the weak, so that we benefit by being able to balance out our more powerful enemies, who we Indians cannot balance out on our own. We dont need to help the West with money to "bolster" them. We simply need to scale back our anti-Western rhetoric and take several diplomatic initiatives vis-a-vis the West to arrive at some common ground.

This position will be very unpopular in India, even on this forum, as we still want to fight or refight the 1857 gadar........ok.....1947 war of independence.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Sep 2011 09:30

A quiet wedding for Dawood's son

ccording to a source, the twice-postponed nikah (wedding) of Moin (25) finally took place on September 23 followed by a grand valima (reception) on September 25 at Dawood's palatial bungalow in Karachi's Cliffton area. The source added that the nikah, held after the Friday namaz, was a small affair attended by close relatives and selected friends, but the valima was grand attended by many guests including senior Pakistani army officers.

He also looks after his father's business in Dubai and Karachi. His bride, Saniya Shaikh, is a Pakistan-born, who stays in the UK, where her father runs a business. Sources said Dawood made the match through his business contacts in Karachi

awood is reportedly relieved that the wedding got over without glitches; since his heart attack last October, he has been wanting to marry off his children before his health deteriorated. Dawood's elder daughter Mahrukh married Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad's son Junaid in 2006. His second Mahreen married a US-based businessman's son in February this year.

Question- while Mango Abduls have to jump through loops to a British, American Visa. Dawoods children and in laws jet set happily through Dubai, London and USA with money got from ~~Drugs and terror~~ businesses. what a sham!

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 27 Sep 2011 09:57

This explains TSP surprise and anger over shaming Haqqani links. Even today, all that Unkil is asking TSP to stop is attacks/help in Afghanistan, no mention of LET et al.

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 27 Sep 2011 10:41

The old senile Krishna goes to a party hosted by the pakis. He sees Mr. Hina Rabbani Khar and thinks he is a woman. What's more, he thinks Mr. Khar is "warm".

He thinks the pakis laughing at him are actually smiling at him. And finally, when Mr Khar escorts him to his car thinking the doddering old fool will fall down, Krishna thinks that is a cute gesture. Finally, he starts profusely praising the pakis for tolerating his aged presence, and the pakis have won another round.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/krish ... 110927.htm

Nauseating stuff. This twit is a shade worse than ol' Nitwit himself.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Sep 2011 10:48

Pakis are apparently trying to get into a "Mutual defence pact" with the Chinese. That is the reason for the frequent visits.

I think that there is a third endgame for Unkil. To turn Afghanistan over to the Chinese for their economic exploitation with the condition that it should not become a terrorist cess-pit. Already Chinese are bolstering their connectivity to Afghanistan through POK and Karakoram highway.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Sep 2011 11:08

Please see this episode of Inside Pakistan hosted by Mani Shankar. He talks to Sartaj Aziz and Javed Jabbar about various topics. IMO, this offers a window into the Pakistan mind and the way they think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnVzQV6qdtI

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 11:12

Whichever way it goes things are not looking very good for India in Af-Pak. Unless we decide to actively participate and mould things in our favour we will have to sit on the side and prepare ourselves for the outcome of a deadly game in which we are not participants.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 27 Sep 2011 11:29

Anujan wrote:I think that there is a third endgame for Unkil. To turn Afghanistan over to the Chinese for their economic exploitation with the condition that it should not become a terrorist cess-pit. Already Chinese are bolstering their connectivity to Afghanistan through POK and Karakoram highway.

If Unkil proposes this, then he truly has the tactical brilliance of a hypothetical love child between Colin Powell and M.K. Bhadrakumar.

Afghanistan is not Unkil's to turn over. When Unkil leaves, he can do nothing to stop the Chinese moving in to exploit Afghanistan economically anyway. Unkil will be in no position to impose conditions on the Chinese for this. If they want it, it's theirs.

Actually, I hope the Chinese do go into Afghanistan, because it IS a terrorist cess-pit, and even Unkil after 10 years of occupation could do nothing about that. Today it's doubtful that even the Pakistanis (if they sincerely tried) would be able to clear up the various Jihadis in Afghanistan to an extent that China would feel secure operating there. For that matter, it's doubtful that the Chinese would want to become dependent on a nation like Pakistan for their security in Afghanistan, after seeing what happened to Unkil 2001-2011.

If China does move in to Afghanistan, the opposition will come from Northern Afghan Jihadis of Central Asian and Uighur extraction. China will have two choices:

(a) take the Jihadis head-on to pacify Afghanistan, and fight the same war as the Soviets and Unkil did before, except that this war will spill over into its own territory in Xinjiang. All the while, the Chinese will be heavily dependent on begging-bowl-toting, nuclear-blackmailing Pakistan to help them out.
(b) Co-opt the Pakistanis and the local Afghan Jihadis, nurture the terrorist cess-pit of Afghanistan, and divert their terroristic appetites towards Unkil. Towards India too of course... but as 9/11 showed, Unkil and the West will not simply fall off the Jihadi hit list. After the NATO occupation of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq, the Jihadi appetite for vengeance is that much more ravenous.

Either course will have repercussions that I don't think Beijing would consider worth the benefits of economically exploiting Afghanistan. And none of it looks good from Unkil's point of view, unless he is counting on Afghanistan to become a bear trap for the Chinese.

partha · Post by **partha** » 27 Sep 2011 11:40

Anujan wrote:Pakis are apparently trying to get into a "Mutual defence pact" with the Chinese. That is the reason for the frequent visits.

I think that there is a third endgame for Unkil. To turn Afghanistan over to the Chinese for their economic exploitation with the condition that it should not become a terrorist cess-pit. Already Chinese are bolstering their connectivity to Afghanistan through POK and Karakoram highway.

Why will US hand over Afg to China for economic exploitation after spending billions of $ in war?

partha · Post by **partha** » 27 Sep 2011 11:44

rohitvats wrote:Please see this episode of Inside Pakistan hosted by Mani Shankar. He talks to Sartaj Aziz and Javed Jabbar about various topics. IMO, this offers a window into the Pakistan mind and the way they think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnVzQV6qdtI

Loved how MSA challenged the Pakis in the beginning. That Javed guy shamelessly talks of how Pakis can't trust India and how Vajpayee's minar-e-Pakistan visit was reassuring. Aiyar didn't shoot back by saying how Pakis betrayed and started Kargil war.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 11:45

Pak-US tensions: Foreign ministry seeks international support to deter US

ISLAMABAD: As tempers run high between Pakistan and the US over the Haqqani network, Islamabad has launched an international effort to avert the possibility of foreign forces on its soil.

An official source from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the Pakistan has directed its envoys in western countries, including Nato allies, to muster support that could dissuade the US from taking action, whether military or economic, against Pakistan.
Additional Secretary of the Foreign Ministry Alamgir Babar is in regular contact with the US State Department in an attempt to alleviate tensions, the source told The Express Tribune on condition of anonymity

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 11:47

Saudi Arabia has stepped in to cool tensions between Pakistan and the United States as ISI chief General Shuja Pasha left for Saudi Arabia via a special plane on Monday.

News from Al Arabiya.net.

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 27 Sep 2011 11:51

US will maintain a strong military presence in Afghanistan for years to come if not decades.
I don't think US would have spent billions to get the Soviets out now only to hand over to China.
That would be a strategic blunder much worse than the blunder of trusting Pakistan.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 11:59

Munter meets Bashir; Pak, US to remove 'misunderstanding'

ISLAMABAD: US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter on Monday met Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir and both sides agreed to remove 'misunderstanding' and continue with the negotiation process in a bid to avoid the current relations from turning further worse, sources said.
There was no official word on the meeting but state-run television quoted a Foreign Office spokesperson as saying "Pakistan and US agreed to remove misunderstanding through close contacts and bilateral talks."

During the meeting, Mike Mullen's recent statements and the blame game came under discussion. The Foreign Office has urged the US to stop levelling baseless charges against Pakistan. Munter was also told to avoid using the media for sorting out the issues and instead resort to diplomatic channels. Salman Bashir also demanded sharing of intelligence regarding Haqqani network.

Munter said he would apprise his government of Pakistan's point of view. The meeting comes as ties between both the allies are on a downward spiral following the US accusations of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) being linked with the Haqqani network. Underscoring the magnitude of tensions, Pakistani stocks ended nearly three percent lower on Monday following worsening relations between Islamabad and Washington, dealers said.

Analysts say the Pakistani military could suffer heavy casualties if it were to attempt a crackdown on the group, which has developed extensive alliances with other militant organisations in the region.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Sep 2011 12:02

Salman Bashir also demanded sharing of intelligence regarding Haqqani network.

Wonder how both the giver and receiver of these sort of gems take the gyaan with a straight face and not burst out laughing?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2011 12:06

Popcorn and Beer time: Very strong words emanating now..Ted Poe saying what aam Joe now knows to be true:

WASHINGTON: A key American lawmaker from Texas has introduced a resolution in the House of Representative to freeze all US aid to Pakistan.

The House Resolution (No HR 3013) if passed will freeze all US aid to Pakistan with the exception of funds that are designated to help secure nuclear weapons.

"Since the discovery of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan has proven to be disloyal, deceptive and a danger to the United States," Congressman Ted Poe said in a statement after tabling the resolution in the House on Friday.

"This so-called ally continues to take billions in US aid, while at the same time supports the militants who attack us.

"The United States must immediately freeze all aid to Pakistan," said Poe, who is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Pakistan has made it "painfully obvious" that they will continue their policy of "duplicity and deceit" by pretending to be US ally in the war on terror while simultaneously promoting violent extremism, the Congressman said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 137012.cms

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2011 12:15

. Salman Bashir also demanded sharing of intelligence regarding Haqqani network

Even Dawood is not there they have repeatedly maintained. If India/ US have information on Dawood or Haqqani then they must discuss and send the proof and evidence. But as far as Pawks are concerned they are not there.

According to a source, the twice-postponed nikah (wedding) of Moin (25) finally took place on September 23 followed by a grand valima (reception) on September 25 at Dawood's palatial bungalow in Karachi's Cliffton area. The source added that the nikah, held after the Friday namaz, was a small affair attended by close relatives and selected friends, but the valima was grand attended by many guests including senior Pakistani army officers.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 27 Sep 2011 12:20

Threading a crooked needle, with a crooked thread
There once was no Paki.....

There is a lot that the Gurus have written here, cogitated upon the events or non events to come, and the likes of me hesitates to step into this fast flowing stream. But then I notice that an aspect or two that may be relevant to the current situation about the paki [n; nomenclature describing the collective enterprise of terrorist jihadi Islam, its adherents, practioners, organizers & leaders, as well as the infrastructure for all that to function – loosely, the present state of Pakistan and its army]. But the paki is not so pure, notwithstanding its claim to paki-ness. There are residual elements in the paki which may represent a possibly useful way out of the current impasse between the US and the paki. Any reading of the English press from the paki over a month or so will show the presence of a WKK equivalent among the pakis – RAPEs who bemoan the terrible quality of life in the paki, and RAPEs with an intense case of perpetual nostalgia for the way things were in the new born paki state, when the monster had not fully developed and when the strange residual colonial society was still functioning in paki stan, with the RAPE a homogeneous lot, not multiply fractured by religious, political, and geopolitical considerations, allowing them all to coexist in a common hallucinogenic environment. Almost all these RAPEs – excluding those in the military – can today be brought together under one umbrella, that represented by their severe nostalgia. And these nostalgic RAPEs represent a fairly large & influential part of society in the paki today – people who would have nothing to do with jihad, “strategic depth” and conquering India (well, may be in their most intimate of dreams, but only briefly). These aging bumbling RAPE class, though a miniscule part of the paki society, are, however, a significant part of the ruling class, and can have a disproportionate effect on the paki’s future, principally its dismantling.

Consider that the US has to disarm the paki – leaving the paki state with no army, air force, navy, and the ISI – and certainly not any nukes – the bum will be gone. At the most, the paki will be reduced to having a very modest self defense force, not much above a group of law enforcement organizations. Now we have taken the paki back to the early days of paki stan, and nostalgia is almost within reach. Let us get the US and the UK together, and with the enthusiastic support of the non army RAPEs, reestablish the Dominion of Pakistan (DOP). UK reestablishes its minimum colonial structure to govern DOP under the 1935 Govt. of India (now Pakistan) act; sends a Governor General to Lahore (new capital), and moves forward with re establishing the rule of law, the feudal structure, and associations with the UK. The paki army may find some gainful employment with British forces, like the Gurkhas, but most will have to be rehabilitated. Ditto the jihadi infra structure. And so, painfully, the paki will be converted back to the “enlightened muslim” state that has so far existed only in the dreams of its creators. This will be the first step in destroying the paki. Second will be the co-opting of the mohajir community. For those delusional folks that ran way to paki stan, there will be established the Free City state of Karachi – some what like Singapore, that can function by behaving itself and aspiring to function as a commercial and transportation hub serving India and the Pakistani State. This will separate the mohajir community emotionally from Pakistan, allowing its inevitable re absorption into India. Pakistan will give up all parts of J&K State to India, in return for which India will provide for Pakistani reconstruction (post US deconstruction). The DOP will be a loose federation of west Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP, governed by and large under the 1935 act as a British dominion, under a British Governor General, until its people grow up and decide what they should be – separately as provinces, or jointly as a country, or part of India.

No doubt the US will get its pound of flesh and then some – typically through a string of security and transit agreements, and the UK will also take a bit of what there is – after all they will provide the DCs, DMs and all that wonderful administration that will keep the elite and the feudal society so happy. It will be a challenge integrating the Union Jack and the star & cresent, but harder things have been done.

So this is what I think all the Gurus overlooked – the retrofitting of the paki to the Dominion of Pakistan, 1947, and start all over again. I do believe there will be some strong support for this outside of the paki, and if the US is willing to destroy the paki, then it is a possible scenario that could work for every one’s interests through agreements and compromises. Not only that, best of all, the PRCees get their marching orders.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 27 Sep 2011 12:52

There are no easy answers here for anyone. Therefore there is NO clear cut strategy for anyone. Neither US, nor Pakis or India and Afghanistan, know where this is leading to. Unfortunately the initiative rests with Mulah Omar and Haqqani. It is waste of time for us to try and work out what will happen to Pakistan or the US in near to medium term.

Lets concentrate more on the one party that has the initiative. After billions of dollars and decade of fight, Taliban has proven beyond doubt that there could be NO future settlement without them.

Now what do they want?

Islamic Sharia State of Afghanistan. IMHO this is the best case scenario for India. Ofcourse we might see an increase in militancy in Kashmir, which we anyways face, but that will reduce Pakistan to be a blip on strategic radar. No matter what I think Taliban is here to to stay, there is no future scenario that can exclude them from calculus.

May be is this will also start the decline and eventual end of RAPE class in Pakistan. End of feudalism and may be a start of true representation, as sooner or later the ruler has to derive legitimacy from the governed.

US I think has worked this out. More or less they have strategically written of the RAPEs and the PA in their current form. There is NO need for a military retaliation here. Just squeeze them to a limit where PA and the RAPEs abdicate to the Taliban and the religious jamats.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Sep 2011 13:05

Aditya_V wrote:A quiet wedding for Dawood's son

Question- while Mango Abduls have to jump through loops to a British, American Visa. Dawoods children and in laws jet set happily through Dubai, London and USA with money got from ~~Drugs and terror~~ businesses. what a sham!

Couldnt figure out one para in the news quoted above:

Sources said the Interpol and two senior officers of the IB missed the nikah, but kept a secret watch on the reception.

What does IB officers missed the Nikah mean? Were they invited to Pak?

Also, were they actually in Pak to have kept a "secret watch" on the proceedings?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 13:07

And if they kept a secret watch how the hell is all this 'secret' out in TOI(let) front page?

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 27 Sep 2011 13:09

Aman ki Asha

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Sep 2011 13:12

One of BRF's favourites motorham, madam Sharmila Bose, displays so much of her love towards TSPA that even WKK Hindu cant take it:
1971: a different history

The book creates a moral equivalence between the actions of the Pakistan army and the liberation fighters of East Pakistan

It is not often that an author makes the startlingly immodest claim that her book is “destined to remain unique”. Right at the start of Dead Reckoning, Sarmila Bose makes an elaborate case for the soundness of her study, while trashing other works on the subject.

Bose's book is about the bloody struggle in East Pakistan between freedom fighters on one side and the Pakistan Army and its supporters on the other in the final months leading up to birth of Bangladesh in 1971. Four decades later, as she says, there is a dearth of credible writing on the historic event. Even so, Bose's claim about her book being the first (or at the most, the second after Richard Sisson & Leo Rose's 1991 work) truly correct account of those terrible months is problematic.

Casualty

In war, truth, as the adage goes, is the first casualty. At best, what dispassionate historians of conflict hope to do is present a part, or some parts, of a complex, multi-layered story, and through that make for a better understanding of the whole. Inevitably, even the most detached works end up taking sides.

Bose's book, which examines specific incidents of violence across East Pakistan from about January 1971 until March 1972, leaves the reader with the overwhelming impression that the author believes the Bengalis of East Pakistan only got what they deserved from the Pakistan Army.

Why doesnt logic then apply in J&K for the Paki pigs for whom the same madam keeps taking $$ from Fai?

Tearing into the Bangladeshi claim that the Pakistani Army committed genocide of 3 million Bengalis, she calls it the “ultimate word-number combination” and a “gigantic rumour”, and scales down the figure to between 50,000 and 100,000. It is not surprising that this has already proved controversial. Numbers are always tricky. As one who was witness to a significant part of the Sri Lankan conflict, I know how parties to a conflict play with numbers. In any case, as Bose herself says towards the end, the numbers finally do not matter, although her book would have us believe otherwise.

For me, what is problematic was the moral equivalence Bose has sought to create between the actions of the oppressor and the oppressed, on the one hand, a full-fledged Army — with its superior training and firepower backed by the quiet acquiescence of a superpower — and, on the other, a people who, by her own account, were ill-trained and had no stomach for battle.

Bose puts down Rumi's disappearance as the “curse of custodial violence that is endemic to all of South Asia”, then goes on to say the Pakistani military personnel were “rather accurate” in picking up the right guys, not detaining anyone who was not involved. And then, citing the example of one rebel who got away, she concludes that “[the Pakistanis] did err in the opposite direction”.

Aside from being equivocal, Bose is free with generalisations about Bengalis and their “demonisation” of the other side and their hatred for the “Shaala Panjabi” or “Khan sena”. On the other hand, she highlights individual acts of kindness of Pakistani soldiers, narrating them with poignancy.

During a longish stay in Pakistan, I have heard some strong racist slurs against Bengalis. But for Bose, it was only the East Pakistanis who cast their struggle in terms of an “us vs. them” ethnicity. In her telling, the Pakistan military — whose dominance by Punjabis is seen as one reason for that country's many problems, including the tensions in Balochistan and Sindh — had none of that ethnic baggage.

Bose's interviews with the Pakistani officers who were involved in the “action” in East Pakistan are an important part of the book. But these seem to have none of the interrogative rigour of her interviews in Bangladesh.

Truely is a piece of work, this lady....Real bad name to all sane Bengali folks around.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Sep 2011 13:13

sum wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:A quiet wedding for Dawood's son

Question- while Mango Abduls have to jump through loops to a British, American Visa. Dawoods children and in laws jet set happily through Dubai, London and USA with money got from ~~Drugs and terror~~ businesses. what a sham!

Couldnt figure out one para in the news quoted above:

In my post you can see this is my comment, see the report all his children and in laws are wither DUbai, London or US based. They seem to have no trouble running his empire from these places.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 13:13

Kapil wrote: Aman ki Asha

I thought a-monkey-tamasha was offcially called off.