Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

[Raja Bose]

^^devesh mian, which school in VV did you go to? There are several including 2 uber fatkat ones, one fatkat one and some middling ones and 1 KV too.

[devesh]

I am assuming one of the "uber fatkats" is the DPS VV..

it's the one on Paschimi. there's only one on that road.
the other ones are close by but official address is not that street.
I've given you enough clues..

[Raja Bose]

So you went to my sis's ex-school. No sir ji, DPS VV is the fatkat one - there are 2 others which are its baaps when it comes to fatkat-ness.

[devesh]

RB,

reply in Nukkad.

[JohnTitor]

Why not name and honour Delhi rape victim? Shashi Tharoor tweets

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 844967.cms

Tharoor, the minister of state for human resources development, also said the revised anti-rape legislation should be named after the victim if her parents do not have any objection."Wondering what interest is served by continuing anonymity of #DelhGangRape victim. Why not name&honour her as a real person w/own identity?" he asked on micro-blogging site Twitter."Unless her parents object, she should be honoured&the revised anti-rape law named after her. She was a human being w/a name,not just a symbol," Tharoor, who is known for speaking his mind, said.Under the law, the identity of a rape victim cannot be disclosed and printing or publishing the name or any matter which may make known the identity of any person against whom rape is committed is an offence under section 228-A of Indian Penal Code.

[/quote]

The honor for the name must go to Chacha Parivar. Call it JLN Rape law.[/quote]
Kind of backfired. Tharoor probably used it to try to identify with the victims family and hence the protesters. But it looks like it backfired!

Naming anti-rape law after girl will be an honour: Family
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 853591.cms

Asked about the financial assistance of Rs 20 lakh announced by the Uttar Pradesh government and assistance of Rs 15 lakh and job announced by Delhi government, the brother said though announcements have been made, they are yet to receive the assistance.

I guess they are waiting for the aadhar scheme to come online so that the "cash" can be transferred. Though its most likely a bureaucratic delay, it kinda sounds like they promised things but didnt deliver (not surprisingly)

[JohnTitor]

What if the juvenile's documents were fake to give the correct age? It appears from the description of events, he was the most active assaulter and rapist. There was a report from UCLA research that students were able to find age via DNA /saliva test - Not sure about the study and practice however. The point is, he should be tried like a normal criminal.

---> Soon, this thread will become outdated... and we will ask which rape?
yesterday: 17-year-old raped by two in Delhi on December 31 night /ToIlet.

I was thinking of starting a thread that keeps track of every rape published.. It would serve 2 purposes. To get an idea ofthe number of rapes and if there are people browsing, it will keep the whole violence against women theme alive. In some ways, better than the protests, sicne those eventually fizzle out. What say?

[Sushupti]

Bar dancers shake a leg in Rahul's Rath Yatra : Lucknow, News - India Today
http://t.co/It6Xxf6m

[chaanakya]

Shiv garu, I have that query for you. Can uterus be really taken out in that manner described in some reports?? Can you confirm?

I did not read the reports but I read about some of the internal injuries and that a rod was pushed into the vagina. The uterus is connected to the outside by a tube called the vagina. That tube can be punctured by any sharp object. If you shove a metal rod up a vagina one can cause a horrific injury where the vagina gets internally ripped and detaches the uterus which can conceivably lie detached and free inside the abdominal cavity along with much bleeding. But what lies in there are intestines and their blood vessels which are even more delicate and can easily be ripped. Injury to the blood supply of the intestine could be the possible reason why the girl was left with dead intestines - most of which had to be removed leaving her in a state where she had only a few inches of intestine left. This condition has a very poor chance of survival - but it is not zero. Hence the talk of intestinal transplant. Infection sets in when the intestines are torn and hence the girl had infection. Shock, infection and multiple organ failure is the usual mode of death after such horrific injuries.

None of the rapists must be spared and they must not be killed. They must be made to suffer.

Let me add a pisko aside. When I joined medical college, all of us, fresh out of school, were thrown into a room full of preserved dead bodies which we later dissected. One classmate of mine, a minor (we were all under 18 then) used a dissection instrument to explore the vagina of one of the dead bodies. Needless to say, all that happened was that the instrument tore through the vagina and caused a puncture that was visible months later when we dissected and saw what was inside.

The point I want to make is that young people are curious about sexual organs and if you hide the idea of sex and suppress it, suppress talk of sex, cover up women, segregate men and women - you are only promoting curiosity to the extent that men will use their physical superiority to satisfy their curiosity and lust.

So much for burqas, hijabs and stopping girls from wearing skirts to school.

Thanks for reply.
And I agree with you on the points above.

[IndraD]

I am an ICU doctor in UK.
Going by the horrific injury this victim received, her long term prognosis was bleak .
But I feel she could have been saved if she was placed in AIIMS or a better ITU at least for months.
Bombay in particular has good ITUs and Gangaram in Delhi has good ITU as well.

She needed critical care experts and good surgeon's advice and care.

Did safdarjung mess up her treatment?

The reports that she had a massive thrombotic stroke a night before transfer means she had significant brain damage which is an absolute contraindication for organ transplantation .

She also suffered brain damage secondary to cardiac arrest she had in Safdarjung.

These are pointers of poor care. Did she receive ventilator care bundle? Why doctors made her walk up on day 2 when she had such a horrific injuries?? God..!

With all this in mind it was beyond logic and ethics to move this patient to Singapore.
In a developed world such doctors would be struck off medical register.

And she was transported without arterial line?! This is one of minimum required care bundle for transportation .
This news has received wide spread coverage in UK and medical fraternity are aghast by such reporting.

I think her life would have been miserable even she survived. Intestine transplantation is a pipe dream and the surgeon professor from Toronto who is pioneer on this, ruled out a transplant on this lady.

Also being on parenteral nutrition forever is impractical, at best it is a bridging device for definitive treatment. She would have suffered and suffered more.

RIP Brave heart where ever you are, it is a pity our system failed you..!

[shiv]

I am an ICU doctor in UK.
<snip>
Did safdarjung mess up her treatment?

Given the profession both of us work in, and given that we both know the sort of mess the girl was in, and the huge gaps between what one is allowed to say and what the media want to say, I think it is unfair to ask if Safdarjung messed up her treatment without looking at the case details and by reading second or third hand media reports.

[IndraD]

^^ No disrespect sir . We treat severe sepsis + MOF on daily basis and young patients with healthy physiology often have better chance.
Complications like thrombotic stroke are unusal in such patients , It is my personal feel she could have save initially. Even cardiac arrest is preceded by days of severe sepsis and MOF and not so quick in young patients.

Yes I agree we do not have access to medical notes. Singapore bulletin does mention about brain damage which was absolute contraindication to organ transplant.

[rkirankr]

^^ No disrespect sir . We treat severe sepsis + MOF on daily basis and young patients with healthy physiology often have better chance.
Complications like thrombotic stroke are unusal in such patients , It is my personal feel she could have save initially. Even cardiac arrest is preceded by days of severe sepsis and MOF and not so quick in young patients.

Yes I agree we do not have access to medical notes. Singapore bulletin does mention about brain damage which was absolute contraindication to organ transplant.

The report her being made to walk was not true. I read an article where her brother was expressing disbelief at such reports.

[shiv]

^^ No disrespect sir . We treat severe sepsis + MOF on daily basis and young patients with healthy physiology often have better chance.
.

No disrespect to you either sir. This business of treating severe trauma and sepsis is common to a lot of doctors, intensivists and surgeons in all countries and none of us has a right comment on another's competence based on media reports. Please remember that there is a healthy exchange doctors between nations and India is full of doctors who have worked in the UK or USA or elsewhere and there is no reason to assume that care is any less competent. I have myself worked in the UK for over a decade before returning to India and now have classmates heading departments, in, believe it or not, Papworth and Addenbrookes.

[Lalmohan]

i dont think that we should take DDM's descriptions for the poor young woman's suffering as being accurate - both before and after her ordeal. what matters most is that here was a vicious violent attack of the worst kind and the perpetrators have to be tried as soon as possible. More importantly, we all collectively need to look at the way indian society is evolving and what can be done better - across all aspects

[Sushupti]

Justice Katju reduced punishment of gangrape (2 crimes, rape=7 yrs + gangrape=10 yrs) convicted to 3 yrs for 1.5 lakh!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc-le ... im/753416/

[devesh]

before the moron Katju lectures us about the virtues of secularism and how stupid Indians are, perhaps he should contemplate his own cognitive capabilities...

[Muppalla]

i dont think that we should take DDM's descriptions for the poor young woman's suffering as being accurate - both before and after her ordeal. what matters most is that here was a vicious violent attack of the worst kind and the perpetrators have to be tried as soon as possible. More importantly, we all collectively need to look at the way indian society is evolving and what can be done better - across all aspects

100% true.

"Evolving" and "across all aspects" are the key words. Both should be taken into consideration for solutions.

Cursing ones own past (good and bad parts) and blind imitation of some other country/culture with undue haste is a sure shot path towards disaster.

[Theo_Fidel]

The more I think about it, 7 years is way too short for a convicted rapist. 12 years should be a minimum. With consecutive sentences for assault based on brutality.

[brihaspati]

I am no medical professional, but I know from direct observation that rape with instruments in between rape with a p****, can quickly tear up internal vascular systems and basically bring up the exterior passage, internal bleeding and contact between the external passage, intestinal ruptures, abdominal cavity. We are assuming that the girl was physically "at the top condition". She comes from a family of not very high means, need not have had "top" nutritional foundations from childhood. Most of our girls suffer from anemia, one way or the other. What makes us assume that she would be physically prepared to battle all and every damage? I know how the girl can sink very quickly, and because most of them come from very poor nutritional foundations while growing up - they may not have that great internal fighting capacity.

There is this great myth about greater biological toughness of women compared to men. But I find women suffering more in general in our lands from physcial ailments. My feeling is that it is because of general neglect of nutrition for girls - who deserve more protein, preferably animal protein - when growing up, compared to boys. [No disrespect meant for vegetarian subcultures - I personally have psychological difficulties with meat. But I would feed a daughter liver, and an egg at the least every day of her growing life. Its compulsory in my shelters for women to have eggs/fish at least three times a week regardless of whether they are widows or vegetarians.]

I am sure that the doctors tried their best. But in some cases, the infection behaves in strange ways - it will temporarily reverse giving a sense of recovery, before the virulence returns leading very quickly to organ failure. I have seen this happen within 10 hours if untreated. If treated, maybe the life is prolonged for some days.

[ramana]

Justice Katju reduced punishment of gangrape (2 crimes, rape=7 yrs + gangrape=10 yrs) convicted to 3 yrs for 1.5 lakh!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc-le ... im/753416/

Isn't this like Islamic bloodmoney? Is this in the Indian legal system?

Also the report says one of the judges was not willing to compound the offence yet got persuaded. Since Mr Katju was not named as the opne objecting to the compounding, he could be the one who persuaded the other judge for this step.

[Lalmohan]

lets be careful with this report also - the article refers to various background factors. it appears to not have been a straight forward prosecution; we don't know the full story

[ramana]

Two posts in GDF which should be here also:

the honey singh thing is akin to the khan question of gangsta rappers making guns and treating women as 'hoes' look cool.
he certainly did not start the rape thing and is just cashing in on a general trend in society to make such things look cool. it better popular figures like him do not send out the wrong message, people might just take it literally.

bollywood has been demeaning women for decades now, but in a more subtle less in your face manner. how many times has the hero kidnapped the heroine, threatened to rape her and then let her go .... I seem to recall atleast one amir khan movie. bollywood hypocrites holding candles can clean their own house first.

and

Evil Inside

Yet, out of 1.2 billion people there was only one moron who chose to vent his anger and venom at Hindu religion. Mahesh Bhatt of Bollywood chose to abuse Hindus and Hinduism by asking to shut down temples and worship of female Goddesses. A man who can be called a third-rate hypocrite for being involved in semi-***** movies in Bollywood and portrays women as sex objects talking morally about rape is even comical. Imagine, in the US with such a high rate of rapes people aren’t calling to pull down churches or images of Mother Mary.

Folks should note that point about Butt saheb.......

[pentaiah]

The problem is no body owns the Hindu ( leadership) hence butt of jokes and also an object to kick butt.

Till that issue of ownership of Hindu is solved it will continue to be kicked in box all the more by closet non Hindus like butt and kanchans of the world.

Non Hindus have Pope, Mullah Moulvi ours triadandi and thrisul daris are only there to talk about atman when deha suddhi is being performed by third rate scum

[ramana]

During Mrs Prathiba Patil's tenure as President a large number of rapists(>15) were granted commutation or pardons from death sentences confrimed by the Supreme Court.

So how was that done and who in Home Minstry tendered the advise to commute the death sentences? Who was the Home Minster in that period? What does he have to say for the larger message it sends to the criminals?

[member_20317]

brihaspati ji, most people do not know this but if one is intent on killing using a dagger or like weapon then one needs to rotate the weapon to ensure that the entrails are all cut into pieces and there is an unstoppable internal bleeding.

People are conditioned to think of dagger attacks as they see it in documentaries showing bayonet charges by armymen. Armies have a slightly different thinking. They have to ensure that the opponent is down and unable retaliate for which a single deep wound is good enough. Their primay purpose is not to kill. In fact Armymen would be very happy with a situation where the opposing force is put in a position where they spend more time and effort caring for their wounded.

In the instant case, an L screw or L spanner is said to have been used. This will create a wound of the first category. So the question of being or not being in 'top physical condition' does not arise. I am surprised the girl survived even this much. And this should be ample proof of the doctor's skills and I believe even of the strength of the girl.


Added later : additionally we need to account for the fact that in such highly charged atmosphere no doctor will have the guts to go wrong even if he wants to. IMPO doctors can be given the benefit of doubt as regards their Medical skills. But this case and a lot of such cases have a Legal aspect to them too and Doctors actually do have a big responsibility here too. However it may be too much to expect good understanding of 'evidence' to be provided and of 'reasonable doubt' to be provide against.

---------------

On a different line of thought, since there was a lot that happened to the case of the girl from the time of the first medical attendence to the time of her death, there is a very high chance that the defence will put to prove the prosecutions case and evidence. Defence has more then ample chance of creating 'reasonable doubt' and then it would be an uphill task for the prosecution from there on. This state of affairs is going to remain till we educate our people about the law in at least personal injury cases. Things of these sort should be treated as classroom case-studies for students of every stream.

[Prem]

"Evolving" and "across all aspects" are the key words. Both should be taken into consideration for solutions. Cursing ones own past (good and bad parts) and blind imitation of some other country/culture with undue haste is a sure shot path towards disaster.

Non Indics,missionaries are on mission to make India another Phillipine or Mexico, without culture or roots.

[putnanja]

Delhi rape: juvenile raped woman twice and ripped off her intestine

...
According to the chargesheet, the juvenile had subjected the 23-year-old physiotherapist to sexual abuse twice,once when she was unconscious. He extracted her intestine with his bare hands and suggested she be thrown off the moving vehicle devoid of her clothes, it says.
...
...
"Of all the persons in the bus, two had engaged in the most barbarism — Ram Singh, the main accused in the case, and the juvenile," said an officer.

"Both of them had subjected her to sexual abuse twice. Singh was the first to rape her followed by the juvenile and then Akshay. Later, when she lost consciousness, Singh and the juvenile raped her a second time."
...

[SaiK]

^He must be a monster.. and so evil to society, that needs a special court indeed. He must be first one to be hanged or dealt with the punishment. I hope this guy's (especially this one juvenile guy) punishment must be telecast live.

[SaiK]

What say?

check with admins/ramana et al. I think GDF is a better place for you to start.

[ramana]

What if the juvenile's documents were fake to give the correct age? It appears from the description of events, he was the most active assaulter and rapist. There was a report from UCLA research that students were able to find age via DNA /saliva test - Not sure about the study and practice however. The point is, he should be tried like a normal criminal.

---> Soon, this thread will become outdated... and we will ask which rape?
yesterday: 17-year-old raped by two in Delhi on December 31 night /ToIlet.

I was thinking of starting a thread that keeps track of every rape published.. It would serve 2 purposes. To get an idea ofthe number of rapes and if there are people browsing, it will keep the whole violence against women theme alive. In some ways, better than the protests, sicne those eventually fizzle out. What say?

Take Lilo's twitter feed @endviolenceonwomen and populate a page. Let it be protoytpe for a bolg or some other page for later use,.

See if you can improve on it by adding maps and any other widgets to make it more compelling.

[rgsrini]

Do we have provision in IPC to try juvenile as an adult. This is a fit case for that. I hope he suffers in the hands of the law, or suffer street justice, if he is left out by the law. This monster has no place in our society.

[putnanja]

Do we have provision in IPC to try juvenile as an adult. This is a fit case for that. I hope he suffers in the hands of the law, or suffer street justice, if he is left out by the law. This monster has no place in our society.

Agreed! I hope someone bobbitizes him so that he will remember for ever, the horrible pain he inflicted on the poor girl!

[Sanjay]

I would like, if I may to point out something - why are rape convictions so low ?

India does not treat women well - established fact. Much to do and a lot to introspect on.

However, despite the feelings of moral and cultural superiority of the westerners and even the Chinese on this I think we need to look at how we are all failing in the fight against rape.

Some statistical perspective on Rape in India.

In India, it is suggested that only 10% of rapes are reported.

See:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/The+ ... 46911.html

Note something interesting from the article:

"People from the upper class and the middle class do not report rape cases. It is mostly the people from the lower class that come out to seek police intervention."

Horrible statistics to be sure but consider even in the United States the following:

"It's widely recognized that rape is one of the most underreported offenses in the United States with empirical studies estimating that merely 15-20 percent of cases are reported to the police,"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... gawdmUgk_g

If we are to compare 2009 statistics for the US and 2011 statistics for India we see that the in the US there were 88,907 rapes reported and in India there were 24,206.

I will leave the mathematical scaling due to under-reporting to you.

Even in as safe a place as the United Kingdom we have this stunning analysis:

http://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre/pre ... iction.htm

"Fear of not being believed, not wanting to get their attacker - who is often known to them - into trouble and a sense that they could or should have avoided the assault mean only a fraction of rape cases are being reported. Of those reported, 50-66% are dropped by police, and of the remaining cases that go on to be considered by the Crown Prosecution Service, 33-50% are discontinued.

About 14,000 cases were reported last year to police, but academics suggest there to be seven times as many unreported cases."


What angers the protesters in India is the apparent intransigence of officials.

When Indian police choose to act, they do arrest and charge somebody in 93.8% of reported cases. However, the conviction rate (based on the total number of reported cases) is 26.4%. This is a sharp drop from 46% in 1971 but apparently (and to me shockingly) still higher than the conviction rates in the UK, the US and even Sweden. Indeed it would appear that 15/16 rapists in the US go unpunished (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... gawdmUgk_g).

Consider how bad Punjab is to have a conviction rate of only 10.8%

However, to get those results, the victim (even when the police are well-intentioned - which does on occasion occur ), is put through a horrible ordeal. There is no sensitivity or apparent compassion shown and of course in some cases the Police are reluctant to do anything (witness what happened to the poor girl who committed suicide after the Police forced her to drop the case) and are in collusion with the criminals.

Even after overcoming those hurdles, the Court process is stunningly slow. Cases drag on and on. Each day that passes demoralizes the victim who is usually bereft of much needed support.

Until that changes, the outrage and the anger will grow against the authorities.

Furthermore, women in India - especially in urban areas - are subjected to widespread sexual harassment that has been termed (idiotically in my view) eve-teasing which makes a simple daily commute a horrendous experience.

It should be noted that we are not talking about a majority or even a substantial minority of Indian men doing this but that it occurs on a very wide scale in undeniable.

Delhi, it should be noted, is the worst offender in this regard (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-witnes ... 263-3.html).

This is where the blame cannot solely lie with the authorities but with a deeper societal malaise.

Also, patriarchy, arranged marriages and religious affiliation are red-herrings in this debate.

We know that India was seemingly safer for women in 1953 and these assaults on women - verbal physical or otherwise - while by no means unknown - was much less prevalent and that when the country was even more tradition bound and held in the thrall of such practices and beliefs.

Don't misunderstand me - I do not support patriarchy or the conservative interpretations of religious texts used to subordinate women. I simply say that things have gotten worse even when there have been strides in shaking the old order.

The issues are not closely linked. The old order has to be shaken up and some of it dismantled for reasons unconnected with rape.

Certainly a patriarchal society can easily become misogynistic as parts of India (read Haryana and Punjab) have become.

However, India's religious patriarchy or social-ills (and there are many) do not explain why in countries where they don't exist, crimes against women and rape in particular are so common as to be almost endemic.

See for example Korea:

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/200 ... and-japan/
http://asia-gazette.com/news/south-korea/127
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... rls-death/
http://thegrandnarrative.com/category/k ... -feminism/

or the links I provided for the US and the UK.

As for China:

http://www.uschina.usc.edu/article@usct ... 13037.aspx

http://jezebel.com/5843184/chinese-teac ... -seriously

http://www.tealeafnation.com/2012/05/ch ... e-capture/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/au ... abour-camp


I firmly believe that the rise in crime against women in India is as a result is an unresponsive, unsympathetic and corrupt police force, a lack of adequate victim support from either family or society and a ponderous judicial system where law-breakers are unpunished.


What I would ask is that blanket views of disparagement or disdain for India and us Indians (not that it is entirely undeserved) be tempered by the realization that even in the so-called developed world, with an attitude of cultural and moral superiority have done an awful job of protecting women from rapists or at even getting justice for them when rape happens.

My big question is why is this ?

Sorry in advance for this rant.

[ramana]

Wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_case

Gives a lot of background details that we are not aware of:

The DHC judge Mehra commission, the MHA task force on DP, so on.

[ramana]

Question can the bus operator also be charged? Insn't there an implict understanding between passengers and owners for safety from bu operators? Was the bus owner unaware of the criminal nature of his driver(s)?

[Sanjay]

Ramana, unless there were previous convictions, how do you determine "criminal nature" ?

[ramana]

During Mrs Prathiba Patil's tenure as President a large number of rapists(>5) were granted commutation or pardons from death sentences confrimed by the Supreme Court.

So how was that done and who in Home Minstry tendered the advise to commute the death sentences? Who was the Home Minster in that period? What does he have to say for the larger message it sends to the criminals?

First Post had an article and google has a subject on this

Is UPA abolishing death penalty through backdoor?

...Says a report in India Today: “No President in India’s history has used the power to pardon death row inmates as President Patil. She has granted a record of 30 pardons in the last 28 months, over 90 percent of India’s total death sentences pardoned ever. But 22 of those relate to brutal multiple murders and gruesome crimes on children, the worst of what human beings can do to one another.”

One of those pardoned, Sushil Murmu, beheaded a child and even his own brother for ritual sacrifices. Another, like Shobhit Chamar killed all male members in a family and two children, and then apparently celebrated the crime.

The big question is this: why?

What was the need to rush into so many pardons in the second half of your term when in the first half you did nothing?

The answer has to be sought in events that happened in 2008-09-10, when the BJP started raising questions about the delay in hanging Afzal Guru, who was convicted for the 2001 attack on parliament, and especially after the 26/11 terrorist attack in Mumbai.

The issue was further politicised last year and this year, when Tamil Nadu, Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir politicians wanted their own favourite death row prisoners shown clemency: people convicted for the killing of Rajiv Gandhi (Murugan, Santhan and Perarivalan), former Punjab CM Beant Singh (Balwant Singh Rajoana), and the parliament attack (Afzal Guru).

Matters came to a head again in 2010, when new Home Minister P Chidambaram disclosed that he was awaiting the Delhi government’s recommendations on Afzal Guru – apparently 16 reminders had been sent but Chief Minister Sheila Dixit was unresponsive (Read here). She cleared the hanging just days after this matter became public.

This is the political context in which Pratibha Patil’s death commutation spree should be seen. A weakened UPA government may be in no mood to carry out any of these politically-sensitive executions, however warranted they may be.

So let’s be clear: this is not Pratibha Patil’s work. This is the central government’s. Under article 72 of the constitution, the president has absolute power to grant any kind of pardon or clemency to any convicted person. But this can be done only on the advice of the government and the home ministry.

So, in a more fundamental sense, these are as much UPA’s clemencies as Patil’s. This is what leads us to the question of whether the government is trying to speed up clemencies in order to do the same for the more politically-loaded death sentences.

If this is the right interpretation of President Patil’s actions, it would be a tragedy, for it would prove once again that under political pressure, the government will pardon anybody – from rapists to killers to terrorists or assassins.

It would be comforting to believe that India is moving towards a more humane crime and punishment system, but this would be a wrong assessment for the simple reason that the country has done nothing about the tribulations of undertrials, living conditions in jails, or any such thing.

The courts, if anything, has only added to the confusion. Last year, the Madras High Court stayed the execution of Santhan, Murugan and Perarivalan (who were convicted in the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case) due to the enormous delays in carrying out their hangings. Their death penalties were confirmed 12 years ago, and this fact alone establishes a strong case for clemency.

In a previous judgment, the Supreme Court has said that clemency pleas should be disposed of within three months of a death penalty being confirmed. Failing this, it would amount to mental cruelty to the condemned person and his or her relatives.

As Firstpost noted at that time, there is no reason to keep delaying the execution of death sentences. And no need to use delays as a reason for clemency either.

First, the main issue is not about whether the death penalty is a good thing or not. It is about the failure of the executive to do its job. Both the NDA and UPA governments have been sitting on mercy petitions for years for lack of political courage. Pratibha Patil may be clearing these cases now with a vengeance, but all reprieve petitions are going only one way: towards commutation.

Second, the argument that it is cruelty to keep a prisoner on death row for so long is only partially valid. It may be true that the convicts suffered mentally. Their families certainly must have suffered from not knowing whether their convicted relatives (son, brother, father) would be reprieved or not.

But what about the lack of closure for the victims’ families? In the case of the three convicted in the Rajiv Gandhi case, we are not talking about his family alone – but those of the 17 others killed with him in that suicide-blast at Sriperambudur in 1991. Why is the agony of a killer’s relatives presumed to be greater than that of the families of the people they killed? If delay in carrying out a death sentence is agony for the former, it is doubly so for the victims.

Third, the ban-the-death-penalty-wallahs seem to wake up only when someone is actually on the threshold of a hanging. This is opportunism of a different kind. One need not doubt their sincerity, but trotting out the same old arguments against death penalty just when justice is at the point of being done is simply not on.

The time to campaign against the death penalty is when nothing is at stake. By raising the hopes of relatives and encouraging politicians to ride piggy-back on their genuine concerns, they too have become a party to prolonging the agony of the condemned. The campaign against the death penalty can – and should – be ratcheted up once the current backlog of executions is completed, so that it can be held in a less charged atmosphere.

But even here, things are not black and white. The proponents of the death penalty favour it for two reasons: one is that it serves as a deterrent. The other is that it is a form of punishment, or retribution, for a grave wrong done to someone or some people.

The opponents call capital punishment a form of “judicial murder” that is not civilised. It must be abolished in all cases. Certainly, there is some weight to this argument, too.

The middle position is that since death is awarded only in the rarest of rare cases, there is nothing wrong with the occasional death penalty. We can live with this “uncivilised” law since it is used only rarely.

A fourth idea to consider is who should be involved in the mercy petition. Currently, it is the home ministry that processes them. But what if we introduce the victims, too? What if they, too, had the power to grant clemency? Now that would be a genuinely human thing to do: forgiveness.

Sure, the families of the victims may not feel charitable or all-forgiving. But in case they do, the pressure on politicians would be less.

But, in any case, Patil’s sudden entry with a broom to clear the death row backlog looks suspicious. Perhaps she is clearing the way for the UPA to pardon one and all – including those convicted for terror.
This is like abolishing the death penalty through the back-door.

[SaiK]

Ramana, unless there were previous convictions, how do you determine "criminal nature" ?

What if they had escaped earlier ? which is quite possible with police setup.

[prahaar]

The current popular demand for death penalty for the rapists is an indication that social engineering like banning death penalty will not work in India. The turn of events have and will continue to force the government of the day to act, however reluctantly it may be. Mrityu-danda is a valid form of punishment and that option should not be closed but used sparingly (read wisely).

[Prasad]

Sanjay,
excellent post!

What I would ask is that blanket views of disparagement or disdain for India and us Indians (not that it is entirely undeserved) be tempered by the realization that even in the so-called developed world, with an attitude of cultural and moral superiority have done an awful job of protecting women from rapists or at even getting justice for them when rape happens.

My big question is why is this ?

Entrenched misogyny and an apathy towards crime against women perhaps.

Sankuji,
flying off the handle? rant? what rant? I do not object to objections against theos claims that arranged marriages are the cause for crimes or bad treatment of women in our country. I think its a stupid point to harp on because its a longer time thing that will change over time as society changes and hopefully improves. What I did object to was that a man claims he knows better than women, simply because he has a lot of female acquaintances when the truth is everyone has them. And that anyone not currently living in India does not have the right to criticise or offer suggestions to improve conditions. You practically called theo a drain inspector. And by association nri's even if you didnt explicitly state that. Thassal.

Anyway, back to regular programming. JJ brings out a 13 point list including changes to state laws. We get a theek hai after a week from our most honoured and well read knowledgeable honest PM. Most of it is straightforward common sense. The bit about more plainclothes officers in public places is getting tiring though. It is never done continuously. After the first incidents beginning with Sarika Shah and the likes, there was a lot of these rounds going on in buses and bus stops in madras. Gradually they got pulled from these duties and assigned to other duties. I haven't heard of any reports about these policewomen in a long time. Seems to be that only when an incident occurs does the police and political class wake up to this problem and goes at it for a while. Then the usual indifference returns. Perhaps they're stretched and cannot afford to post policewomen on such duties regularly? I do not know. Like Sanjay says, reporting, sensitive handling and carrying through to fighting the cases in courts diligently will lead to a tremendous increase in redress and also acting as deterrents simultaneously. Roadside romeos were afraid when plainclotheswomen beat the crap out of eve-teasers at bus stops when they were caught. And gave women a greater sense of security. That is missing. Its all perspective wonly!