IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

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srai
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by srai »

Philip wrote:...
DEFENSE NEWS
India Cancels $12B Combat Jet Program

“Probably this was right from the beginning when 36 Rafale aircraft were ordered that the 126 MMRCA deal would be canceled, otherwise it cannot happen that way," said Fali Major, retired Indian Air Force air chief marshal and former service chief. "I do not know the reason why the 126-MMRCA deal was canceled.”
...
:rotfl: Former ACM saying that! Isn't the IAF aware of overall defense spending and funds available? Or does throwing tantrums the most work in the armed forces to get the desired new toy?

To anyone else, the answer is obvious as what Philip has said below:
Philip wrote: Now that the "cost" of the Rafale has skyrocketed, the key reason for buying it has also gone into the stratosphere!
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by SaiK »

brar_w wrote:@ Saik, the IAF evaluated the aircraft but the mission system evaluations were based on "future year" capability for both the Rafale and the Typhoon. A 2020 export Typhoon can have a lot more capability than what the RAF fields in 2020. For example even in 2015-16 the Saudi's have Paveway IV (Iirc) and the Meteor, while the RAF does not have the latter.
I should have referenced the discussion point
VVV
arthuro wrote: The Typhoon were inferiors.

Concurrently, November 16, the Rafale gave,...... real capabilities, because the pilots are taking advantage of the real human-machine interfaces and sensors on board, one of the Rafale has benefited from a refresh of its tactical situation by his teammate via Link-16. ....

Some advantages that make the difference.

However, he heavily emphasized the performance of the french system in the field of arms data fusion, from his point of view the main reason of the superiority obtained. Instead of each sensor to display its studs (aircraft detected) on a specific screen, forcing the Typhoon pilot to operate an intellectual gymnastics , annoying in combat stress, to check if the plot of its corresponding screen of electronic warfare was or was not the one visible on the radar screen or IRST, the Rafale's systems present to the pilot a single plot on a screen, the system automatically compares the plots provided by the various sensors on board and decides if it is or not the same plane......... thanks to the excellence of FBW, to the extreme limits of the flight envelope.. To point the nose toward the target and to design it to the weapons system in the absence of a viewfinder-HMD while operating at very low speed. What are not necessarily capable of the main opponents of the Rafale .....P
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_29151 »

Cain Marko wrote:^ Re. V. Raghuvandshi article above... 25 sqds with 14 facing retirement is a bit alarmist. At present, there are around 10 mki sqds, 6 bisons, 3 fulcrum, 3 mirage, 6+ jaguar. That is 28 without looking at any floggers, which at least have two upg sqds that should hang around till the end of this decade. Problem really starts when these and the bisons start retiring.

So, with 4 more mki to come in and 2 tejas mk1 plus 2 rafale to be inducted, I don't see how the strength will fall below 28-30 sqds. Of course, this is well below the sanctioned 39.5 number and sp, there is a shortfall of about 10 sqds that needs to be addressed asap.
They No Of SQ may be same But Tech transition is vey high Mirage -UPgraded,MIG 29 -Upgrade Done,SU 30 MKI More Than 4 should Come. Plus LCA if its Done Within time frame , Rafale- difficult to say!! for 10 Sqdn Su 35 plus Or Su 34 Or More MKI !! FGFA And AMCA are too far To be considered now.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_20453 »

The Rafale & EF are no doubt good aircraft, they can work well with the MKI. The problem with Rafale was never the aircraft but the people pushing it. They have fallen flat on pretty much every promise made from TOT to costing. Meanwhile precious time is wasted and both are quite expensive even if we remove need for TOT & local manufacture. We are better off ordering another 80 Super MKI and keep the MKI plant open till 2020, a total of 330-350 MKIs, 40 of which are used by the SFC with N-Brahmos/ N-Nirbhay, another 40 should also be Brahmos/Nirbhay capable for conventional strikes. Brahmos mini should be sped up for regular MKIs,Mig-29s etc.

While we double our efforts on the FGFA, AMCA & LCA Mk-2. Either way we can have more MKI delivered by 2020.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_29151 »

Septimus P. wrote:The Rafale & EF are no doubt good aircraft, they can work well with the MKI. The problem with Rafale was never the aircraft but the people pushing it. They have fallen flat on pretty much every promise made from TOT to costing. Meanwhile precious time is wasted and both are quite expensive even if we remove need for TOT & local manufacture. We are better off ordering another 80 Super MKI and keep the MKI plant open till 2020, a total of 330-350 MKIs, 40 of which are used by the SFC with N-Brahmos/ N-Nirbhay, another 40 should also be Brahmos/Nirbhay capable for conventional strikes. Brahmos mini should be sped up for regular MKIs,Mig-29s etc.

While we double our efforts on the FGFA, AMCA & LCA Mk-2. Either way we can have more MKI delivered by 2020.
only realistic and achievable platform.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Singha »

in concert give a big bootpush to domestic weapons production in bulk...as much priority as agni5
- NGLGB family 500,1000,2000lb
- NGARM
- brahmos-M
- submunitions
- helina for fighter integration in quad packs
- astra 1 & 2
- self protection and escort jammers
- FDL for all, down to hawks and pilatus
- 6 more EMB145 AEW instead of some uber-A330 that will cost as much as a Sentry

without atleast domestic munitions in huge nos on imported a/c, we might as well go home and surrender - imported a/c + imported weapons is going to make cheen rotfl.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by somnath »

^^^Not going to happen. Simply put, there is no money. Around 70-75% of capital budgets of each service is committed for paying instalments on contracted platforms. The balance is simply not enough to make commitments on new contracts. This is as big an issue for delays in procurements AND money returned as are the processes of procurement.

Things are going to get worse, once OROP is implemented. Already, defence pensions (which BTW is accounted for outside the defence budget for some inexplicable reason) account for >50k crores. OROP will increase that by another 8-9k crores first up, with exponential growth in the next few years as the new pay commission is implemented.

Structurally, the defence budget is broke. Unless India goes on another high growth spree of 8-9% and govt revenues bulk up, there is no way signifcant additions can be afforded.

The Rafale deal is dead - the 36 aircraft order will be first concluded such that no payment is required in FY2016. Deliveries will then be stretched out for at least 5-6 years so that the financial impact is managed. In short, its not going to help IAF in any meaningful way in the next 10 years unless it has a plan B. ACM Raha famously said there isnt a Plan B!
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Prasad »

Ugh. Are we importing 155mm and tank rounds too? If we can't surge output during an intense 4 weeks of operations to cater for dumb bombs and anything else we'll use in a hurry, why even pretend with fancy equipment.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Karan M »

Singha wrote:in concert give a big bootpush to domestic weapons production in bulk...as much priority as agni5
- NGLGB family 500,1000,2000lb
- NGARM
- brahmos-M
- submunitions
- helina for fighter integration in quad packs
- astra 1 & 2
- self protection and escort jammers
- FDL for all, down to hawks and pilatus
- 6 more EMB145 AEW instead of some uber-A330 that will cost as much as a Sentry

without atleast domestic munitions in huge nos on imported a/c, we might as well go home and surrender - imported a/c + imported weapons is going to make cheen rotfl.
+100

And I think that's exactly the plan from DRDO/DRDL/RCI org. Huge number of items in development as IGMDP follow ons. "Achhe din" in the real sense.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Philip »

From the above ET media report,the MOD asking for offsets,the IAF extra weaponry,complicating the deal and sending the price even higher. Typical babu bungling.At 200M a pop,this is an absolutely ridiculous price when an MKI is available for around $70M.This is almost 3 times the price!

DIFFERENT PRIORITIES
Complicating matters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had asked for technical modifications so the latest weapons could be fitted to the jets, the second defence official said.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_22539 »

^Furthermore spares, fuel and future upgrades for Su30MKI is most certainly not going to cost 130 million dollars in today's value for the rest of its work-life.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Austin »

Though dealing with French has been a good experience for Indian Defence Establishment and a happy experience for end user from geo-political and capability pov but the current Rafale deal on price point has been a pain and has brought in a lot of bitterness in the MOD for the never ending discussion. Rafale deal is now all about cutting our losses.

MOD is doing the right thing which is cutting its own loss , Just out right buy 36-60 Rafale i.e 3 Squadron+ reserves and get over it this should take care of squadron loss by end of this decade at minimum price point.

Invest the money saved from another 60 Rafale buy in to Tejas Mk1/Mk2 and MKI program this would be money well spend and support indigenous and Make in India program.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_29151 »

Time to Send A message To french : GO TO Hell !! We Dont want Your Rafales :evil: :twisted: :lol:
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Austin »

Cant just blame the French although they like any vendor wants to extract the best for itself , if a deal takes like 12 years in making and negotiate and then it just falls on the lap of new government who is suppose to fix all the past misdeeds of 10 years then there is something seriously wrong with how we go about our Defence Procurement
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by member_22539 »

^There is and getting it fixed means no more foreign (french) goodies. These "vendors" need to learn to live with that, not behave like petulant prima donnas.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by uddu »

Instead of 36 Rafale, we can have 232 Tejas MK-1 :lol:
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Philip »

Let's not get angry with the French.Their bird has basic costs for export.We have also asked for offsets,IAF extra weaponry etc. Either we bite the bullet,"pay the piper" or wave "au revoir"!
Our problem is to have cast out the MMRCA net so far and wide as to include both single and twin-engine fighters,light and medium,choosing the latest and most expensive of the two without having the means to pay for them!

If $10B is what we budgeted,add to that a generous inflation fig. of approx. 25%,$12.5B is what would be a realistic fig for 126 aircraft,etc.This works out to around $100M a pop. Still a good $30M more than an MKI! But at this price,one would be able to get double the number 70+,for the 36 we're now trying to acquire,with another $4-5B in hand to acquire more MKIs,SU-34/35s,MIG-29UGs,LCAs,whatever to make up the numbers or invest in the even better FGFA! If the Rafale is going to cost over $100M,then it is an absurd buy no matter what geo-political considerations are there and frankly,with just 36 in the inventory,it will matter v.little if these aircraft are difficult to support in time of crisis.

One would seriously re-examine the entire planned inventory and force structure of the IAF and take a final decision after the PM visits Russia in Nov.Issues like the FGFA,extra MKIs,MTA,etc.,could be arranged into an attractive ,affordable package deal.There are just two more months to go and a final decision could be made in Dec.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by NRao »

There will be a cost for waving too, in some other form. Perhaps backing for a UN SC seat (throwing something out there, as an example). Same for the "PAK-FA" too. On the flip side, they (both) could be as a partial payment for support elsewhere and these negotiations are just a facade.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by ramana »

Philip wrote:From the above ET media report,the MOD asking for offsets,the IAF extra weaponry,complicating the deal and sending the price even higher. Typical babu bungling.At 200M a pop,this is an absolutely ridiculous price when an MKI is available for around $70M.This is almost 3 times the price!

DIFFERENT PRIORITIES
Complicating matters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had asked for technical modifications so the latest weapons could be fitted to the jets, the second defence official said.

Looks like French wanted to sell a plane for flypasts!!!!
And IAF woke up last minute to pull an LCA on Dassault?

Asking for technical modifications at last minute!!!

Really the RM should let them fly transport aircraft for disaster relief and give up fighter planes.
After ACM SK Mehra not one IAF chief is worthy of being called a chief.
All are ferry pilots.
The senior most pilot who survives the babucracy intrigues, becomes the chief.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Cosmo_R »

At $220MM a pop (for the Qatari sale) and a 'discounted' $200MM for us, the Rafale is a gold plated platform that will kill all other defense purchases. At this rate, the JSF looks better at $80MM. In theory you get 2 5G a/c for the price of one 4G. There is no 'ToT' involved anyway. LM will share the object codes to integrate Israeli and Indian weapons. As for sanctions, if unkil wants, they can kill the Rafale assembly/delivery program in India just as they did the Mistrale sale to Russia.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by enaiel »

Cosmo_R are you serious? Let me guess you got your JSF price from the JSF propaganda site here: https://www.f35.com/about/fast-facts/cost ? That price is LM's cost to manufacture the aircraft for the USAF without engines, weapons, and other support costs. It also does not factor in development costs which will be offloaded to any export customer. There is no way India will be able to acquire the JSF for less than 200MN. People need to stop dreaming about seeing the JSF in Indian colors. If we can't afford the Rafale, then we definitely can't afford the JSF.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by NRao »

LM will share the object codes to integrate Israeli
It cost the Israelis just shy of a cool half a billion to integrate stuff into the JSF. Not to talk of years of negotiations.

IF at all the JSF comes to India it just may be better with the IN. IMVVVHO, more bang for the buck.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by brar_w »

NRao wrote:
LM will share the object codes to integrate Israeli
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&p=1885627#p1885627
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Kakkaji »

ramana wrote:Looks like French wanted to sell a plane for flypasts!!!!
And IAF woke up last minute to pull an LCA on Dassault?

Asking for technical modifications at last minute!!!
ramanaji:

I don't think either the French or the IAF can be blamed in this case.

Several years have passed since the original RFP and the IAF's evaluations. New technologies and concepts have come into vogue. So the IAF now wants the latest concepts to be implemented, for which the French will now ask for an extra arm and leg.

This is exactly why the IAF needs to see the benefits of a homegrown LCA, where every couple of years you can add new capability in tranches, without bankrupting the treasury.

There is no way you can keep importing the cutting edge. It has to be home-grown.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Cain Marko »

ramana wrote: Looks like French wanted to sell a plane for flypasts!!And IAF woke up last minute to pull an LCA on Dassault?

Asking for technical modifications at last minute!!!

Really the RM should let them fly transport aircraft for disaster relief and give up fighter planes.
After ACM SK Mehra not one IAF chief is worthy of being called a chief.
All are ferry pilots.
The senior most pilot who survives the babucracy intrigues, becomes the chief.
Well saar, at least now folks cant complain that iaf only does this to homegrown products...and metes out equally awful treatment to all its customers. I remember the russkis too had it really tough with iaf requirements, they push their toys and men hard and have exacting standards, one reason why hal gets into much trouble. But it is heartwarming to see acm raha speak positively about large tejas numbers.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Philip »

Geo-interests:Forget about the JSF coming with a UNSC seat. Dream on!
UNSC seat.Latest "Hindu" reports say that the US is backtracking on its assurance to India for the same.[/quote]NEW DELHI, August 14, 2015 As U.S. changes tack, India redraws UNSC bid[/quote]
The GOI however is going to push hard despite the US about-turn.
Meanwhile Russia and the ISRO are to collaborate on a new semi-cryo-engine for increasing the performance of PSLVs and GSLVs.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 536263.ece
Russian tie-up to boost ISRO’s semicryogenic launcher plan.


The House committee has also come down heavily on the MOD's process for executing def. decisions,leading to delays,etc.

http://www.asianage.com/india/iaf-rafal ... dblock-676
IAF Rafale deal hits roadblock
The ongoing cost negotiations between India and France over acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft has triggered speculation that the process may have hit a roadblock. News agency reports on Wednesday claimed that the negotiations have run into rough weather over the “offset clause and tweaking of weaponry technology which is driving up the cost”.

Sources were cited as saying that one of the main stumbling blocks was the offset clause that India is insisting on, something which the French reportedly maintain will drive up the cost of the aircraft.

Another issue reportedly is the IAF seeking modifications on the Rafale so that a particular set of weapons could be integrated on the Rafale instead of the ones being offered by the French. This too will drive up the cost.

“The benchmark for the prices are already there since the deal with Egypt and Qatar has been struck. The price of the aircraft to India cannot be less than what the other two countries have bought it for,” sources were quoted by news agencies, as saying, adding that no talks have been held between the two sides in the recent past, indicating a possible stalemate.


Prime Minister Narendra Modi had during his visit to France earlier had announced his decision to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets citing operational necessity of the IAF.

India has constituted a committee to hold negotiations with the French team, even as France is reportedly offering the Rafale jets at almost the same price its Air Force is buying it from the original manufacturer Dassault Aviation.

Aug 13, 2015
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by shiv »

I suspect Rafale will get cancelled or not move beyond 36. Just a guess.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by srai »

^^^

A repeat of Mirage-2000 purchase in the 1980s.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Karan M »

That would be the worst decision ever. Either dont purchase it, or purchase a proper amount, at least some 60-80 airframes.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by shiv »

Philip wrote: http://www.asianage.com/india/iaf-rafal ... dblock-676
IAF Rafale deal hits roadblock
Another issue reportedly is the IAF seeking modifications on the Rafale so that a particular set of weapons could be integrated on the Rafale instead of the ones being offered by the French. This too will drive up the cost.
Aug 13, 2015
This news may be fake - but anyway let me say what I feel like saying.
1. Wasn't IAF accused of wanting R-73 on LCA that had wingtip pylons stressed for R-60?
2. I would be very surprised if the designers of Astra had not made it compatible for mounting on a wide variety of aircraft and munition country of origin. Didn't I hear the names of some French missiles mentioned for LCA?

I would wait and see where this report goes. But in general the Rafale has not been very encouraging in terms of news that we get.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Cosmo_R »

enaiel wrote:Cosmo_R are you serious? Let me guess you got your JSF price from the JSF propaganda site here: https://www.f35.com/about/fast-facts/cost ? That price is LM's cost to manufacture the aircraft for the USAF without engines, weapons, and other support costs. It also does not factor in development costs which will be offloaded to any export customer. There is no way India will be able to acquire the JSF for less than 200MN. People need to stop dreaming about seeing the JSF in Indian colors. If we can't afford the Rafale, then we definitely can't afford the JSF.
Your guess is wrong. I merely looked it up in Wikipedia:

"F-35A: $98M (low rate initial production and not including the engine, full production in 2018 to be $85M)"

Subsequently, I saw that Lorraine Martin CEO of LM used the same numbers. As the CEO of a public company, give the SEC, she would not be pulling it out of a hat.

If we can't afford the JSF, we cant afford the Rafale. We would have been a whole lot better off buying the 126 M2Ks in 2000 and really gearing up the LCA. But then nobody ever accused GoI of having a strategic vision.
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by brar_w »

The F-35A's price as reported in the SAR can be seen per production block and year. The cost to produce is absolutely never published but is monitored by the Pentagon as a whole. While it is true that Lockheed does the deal for the Airframe-Avionics-helmet and all missions systems the price in its contract does not include the engine which is contracted for (again this is normal practice because airframe+avionics_systems and engines are competed for separately) with its OEM but the final price published can easily be calculated based on SAR data (which has been provided in the F-35 thread many times). The F-35A cost minus the engine was slightly below the $95 Million mark with a further reduction planned (3-4%) for the contracts being negotiated now. The Full rate of production bulk buy is aimed at reducing the cost of the Aircraft to between $80-$85 Million per CTOL INCLUDING THE ENGINE. These are Unit Fly-Away costs.

The Engine contract is always announced but the price per engine is never revealed so if one were to guess the current price of an F-35A at the Low Rate of Initial Production that is 1/5 (or nearabouts) of full scale production is around $8 million - $10 Million for the CTOL variant. Dividing the total engine contract by the number of engines procured is not a good indicator for per-engine cost because the total contract includes the STOVL propulsion system which can easily be 2-2.5 x the cost of the CTOL system.

Anyway, what the F-35A costs now is irrelevant there are no slots left for the 30-40's per year production ..The second multi-year production contract will be announced next year and is for more than 400 aircraft. The 2018 SAR data for example shows an airframe procurement cost of $4.7 Billion for the Air-force and another $770 Million for the engines coming to $90 Million for the CTOL-Recurring flyaway. This is for 60 aircraft , and these are projections..Actual cost negotiations over the last 3- 4 years have bettered the SAR data and it is based on those negotiations that the program office has set a goal of between $80-$85 Million ( A full $5 Million to $10 Million lower) recurring fly-away cost for the F-35A at the USAF procurement rate of 60 aircraft per year. 2018 orders are for 2020 deliveries. Lockheed Martin, and the engine maker Pratt and Whitney are required to sign a FIXED price contract for all the components (minus the concurrency work)..Again all concurrency jets are sold so all new orders be it for the USAF or any partner will include delivery of jets that do not need a single $ worth of concurrency (concurrency here means going back and replacing parts or components based on testing).

The current airframe price of $94.8 Million (Minus the engine) in LRIP 8 can be compared to the LRIP price of $106 Million in LRIP5 just three years ago. Thats more than 10% drop primary attributed to touch labor reduction and the general learning curve which for complex fifth generation fighter can be in the three digits...LRIP8 to FRP1 will see more dramatic cost reductions coming primarily from economies of scale as the production rate rises to 150+ aircraft a year over the next 5 production years.

For FMS prices one can compare the size and scope of the South Korea FMS deal (that included weapons and listed exactly which ones and in what quantity) with that of the deal of the rafale for Qatar or Egypt that also including extras. The FMS contract signed by South Korea with the JPO includes ENGINES...(its the JPO that then signs another contract with the vendors)...I have posted that bit of information as well. The F-35 is not an option for the IAF geopolitical reasons, but there is absolutely no doubt that even without the technology transfer the rafale will at best end up costing as much to the IAF as the F-35 is to a South Korea and at worst it will cost much more. And South Korea is buying a quarter of its aircraft at the higher LRIP prices (lower production volumes).
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Viv S »

Cosmo,

The F-35A is cheaper but 'only' by around 20-25%.

This is from the DSCA release vis a vis the F-35 proposal to South Korea -
The Government of the Republic of Korea has requested a possible sale of (60) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft. Aircraft will be configured with the Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines, and (9) Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines are included as spares. Other aircraft equipment includes:

Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communication, Computer and Intelligence/Communication,Navigational and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics. Also included: software development/integration, aircraft ferry and tanker support, support equipment, tools and test equipment, communication equipment, spares and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documents, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $10.8 billion.

DSCA File

That's $10.8 billion for 60 F-35As or about $6.5 billion for 36 units. Although these were all at then prevailing rates. Today in 2016 that should have fallen to close to $6 billion. Add in another $500 million for weapons.
274 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
6 AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM Guidance Sections
530 Joint Directed Attack Munition (JDAM) Tail Kits, BLU-109/KMU-557C/B (GBU-31) w/SAASM/AJ
4 JDAM BLU-109 Load Build Trainers
6 MK-82 Filled Inert Bombs
4 BLU-109 Inert Bombs
1312 FMU-152A/B Fuzes (FZU-63 Initiator)
542 GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs
530 BLU-109 2000LB Penetrators
780 GBU-12 Bomb
4 GBU-12 Dummy Trainers
154 AIM-9X-2 (Blk II) Tactical Missiles w/DSU-41
33 AIM-9X-2 (Blk II) Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM)
7 AIM-9X-2 (Blk II) CATM Guidance Units
14 AIM-9X-2 (Blk II) Tactical Guidance Units

Also included are containers, missile support and test equipment, provisioning, spare and repair parts, support equipment, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and technical support, and other related elements of program support. The estimated cost will be $793 million.

DSCA Release
$793 mil for 60 aircraft. Equates to $475 million for 36 units.

Contrast this (428 AAMs & 2000+ bombs) with what we paid for just 450 MICA for the Mirage upgrade. $1.23 billion.

Just goes to show why this a god-awful deal that we're negotiating with Dassault.
Viv S
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Viv S »

Cain Marko
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Cain Marko »

^wonder what.phyter they is talking oph?
krisna
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by krisna »

^^^^
per teetar think saurav jha mentioned soolah phyetrs.

here it is
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 · 4h4 hours ago
The US has made an offer to make F-16s with a private entity in India at a totally ridiculous price. They are trying to kill LCA for good .
also check other tweets here https://twitter.com/SJha1618
NRao
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by NRao »

ridiculous price
If he knows that the price is ridiculous, wonder why he did not mention it.
Cain Marko
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by Cain Marko »

Eff solah, huh? Well it had better be the XL then..
RoyG
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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Post by RoyG »

Have a feeling that the US may try to lure India with some engine ToT as bait. If the price is truly ridiculous, India may just take it given that the Rafale is going to cost us an arm and a leg. PSU excuses, politics, IAF ego etc. will keep going forever. Not sure how much longer we can wait.

I say keep the HAL line open for MK-1A and just pick a damn cheap aircraft with proven capabilities and range.

In the meantime, we'll have a private player to snuff HAL out of existence if they don't get their manufacturing act together.

Negotiating for the F-Solah will also put pressure on the French to lower their costs and give us more incentives.

Su-30, F-16IN, LCA will be a potent mix against the Chinese.
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