Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Nov 2015 12:21

deleted

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Nov 2015 13:46

Gawsh - just reported some 3 pages of posts. Taking a break, pages 15-16 left.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Nov 2015 03:06

thanks. will transfer them

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 12 Nov 2015 21:51

The NGARM missile will have a quartz radome (qualified by RCI). It will have a diameter of 315 mm.

So, in terms of dimensionality, it will be right in between ALARM/AGM-88 and the older Martels. I think we are looking at 550 kg missile. If DRDL goes with the dual pulsed motor, expect a significant range and a lot of oomph in warhead.

srai · Post by **srai** » 13 Nov 2015 04:04

^^^

There was this picture of NGARM floating around and superficially it looks like Martel ASM:

Good size for an ASM that can accommodate 150 kg warhead. Range would be 120km+. Original design length was around 4.1m, which means if that length is maintained then it will fit into typical fighter internal weapon bay. We can expect other ASM variants based on this design.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Nov 2015 10:24

^^^ That is the alleged NGARM missile. There is no confirmation for or against it.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 16 Nov 2015 08:05

This article Claims that the Brahmos II is the export varient of the Russkie Tsirkon Missle.

The ‘Tsirkon’ hypersonic missile is one of today’s most secret designs of the United Instrument Manufacturing Corporation. According to Dmitri Kornev, executive editor of the specialized web portal MilitaryRussia, ‘Tsirkon’ is a multi-service missile unit with a hypersonic missile. There has been unconfirmed speculation that the BrahMos-II anti-ship missile was the export version of the ‘Tsirkon.’ All tactical specifications of the missile are classified, but the ‘Tsirkon’ can likely reach a velocity of no less than 4.5 Mach. According to sources, the missile was ready for testing in 2015 but, based on client requirements, the prototype is likely to be tested by August 2016.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/20 ... les_539715

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 16 Nov 2015 18:01

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Nov 2015 20:30

Pragnya BTW

He disclosed that the DRDO was engaged in developing a sensor fabrication facility. The Rs 700-crore project will enable indigenisation of sensors which will enhance efficiency of country’s weaponry. Currently, these sensors were being imported from France, Israel and Russia. Chander said the country’s spending on Research and Development was minuscule, probably the lowest in the world.

This is ~$100 Million and most likely the same seeker facility referenced here.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-news ... ekers.html

I suspect the Tribune report is more accurate and the Pioneer one added an extra zero.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Nov 2015 00:16

Excuse folks why is Arihant in this thread?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Nov 2015 07:15

DRDO ‏@DRDO_India 22h22 hours ago
The RM also handed over the Maareech - Advanced Torpedo Defence System developed by DRDO to the Navy Chief.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 17 Nov 2015 07:41

prasannasimha wrote:DRDO ‏@DRDO_India 22h22 hours ago
The RM also handed over the Maareech - Advanced Torpedo Defence System developed by DRDO to the Navy Chief.

Interesting choice of name that. Mareech was the rakshash who transformed into a golden deer and enticed Sita into coaxing Ram to fetch the deer for her- dead or alive and thereby, luring Ram away from the ashram. Of course, when he was finally shot down by Ram, he cried out in Ram's voice, leading to Sita dispatching Lakshman to search for Ram.

I wonder if the DRDO Mareech works as a similar decoy, luring the Torpedos away from the sub..

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 17 Nov 2015 08:05

Karan M wrote:Pragnya BTW

He disclosed that the DRDO was engaged in developing a sensor fabrication facility. The Rs 700-crore project will enable indigenisation of sensors which will enhance efficiency of country’s weaponry. Currently, these sensors were being imported from France, Israel and Russia. Chander said the country’s spending on Research and Development was minuscule, probably the lowest in the world.

This is ~$100 Million and most likely the same seeker facility referenced here.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-news ... ekers.html

I suspect the Tribune report is more accurate and the Pioneer one added an extra zero.

I thing that there were some grapevine rumors that IR sensor production facility would require around 1000 crores.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Nov 2015 11:37

Next generation missile to be test-fired - Dinakar Peri, The Hindu

The Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile (LR-SAM), which can intercept incoming targets at a range of 80 km, is all set to be test-fired from a naval warship this month.

Navy officials said integration of the missile and all the systems on board the guided missile destroyer INS Kolkata were complete. “All preparations are done and the test can happen anytime.”

LR-SAM, also known as Barak NG (next generation), is being co-developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) from India and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) of Israel. The missile has been successfully test-fired against a flying target in Israel in November 2014.

Running behind schedule

The project, however, is running behind schedule. It was approved in 2005 with an initial funding of Rs. 2,606 crore and was to be inducted in 2011 but has been delayed due to technical difficulties.

The Navy intends to have LR-SAM as the standard fitment on all its future warships and also retrofit existing frontline ships.

While the LR-SAM will form the first tier of the multi-layered air defence at long ranges, the shorter ranges are handled by Barak-I missiles with range of around 10 km which are currently operational on all frontline warships including the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya.

Maitri project

The Navy intends to replace the Barak-Is and the Defence Ministry has in March given approval for the co-development of a Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (SR-SAM), Maitri, by the DRDO with MBDA of France. Under this, nine SR-SAMs with 40 missiles each are to be initially developed.

The project has been in the works since 2007, but did not make progress as it clashed with the indigenous Akash project.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Nov 2015 17:33

Good to see they have kept the Maitri project going , there was news report of it getting shelved due to cost and no TOT on seeker from french side

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Nov 2015 17:43

Now we will have 2 products, Maitri and QRSAM (Rs 400 Crore budget IIRC) in the same category. For no clear reason but the IN hedging its bets.
QRSAM is to have track on move. No mention of Maitri having the same. Ideally both should be combined, but its anyone's guess if there is actual TOT involved in Maitri's missile or its all eyewash. On the plus side at least radars and C3I for both will be Indian. Plus this. http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=173 ... ensor-tech
Then there is Akash Mk1 which is ~25km range and the Mk2 has been cleared - no clear data on specifications yet.
LRSAM/MRSAM are stated as ~80km now but again, details on radar localization not yet available. C3I is from DRDO and TATA Advanced Systems Ltd for MRSAM.
Plans now to purchase S-400 outright, again no data on localization or even offsets.
Where DRDO's VLRSAM program is anyone's guess. BMD program will likely continue.

The lack of coherent focus from MOD is clear. Parrikar is probably attempting to make sense of the mess he has inherited.

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 Nov 2015 20:24

^^^

Too many overlapping projects and acquisitions. Lacks coherence.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Nov 2015 20:42

Its a mess. Only plus is that DRDO's radar programs are not tied to the SAM ones like earlier. And Private sector involvement is increasing.
Note involvement in both BMD and MRSAM programs.

http://www.tataadvancedsystems.com/static.php?id=63

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 17 Nov 2015 23:18

Aren't naval requirements fundamentally different? Maitri has to vmbe foremost an anti missile system, while qrsam is an air defence system to replace the likes of osa

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Nov 2015 00:34

Even QRSAM will be expected to engage low flying targets against ground clutter, including low RCS vehicles... even Akash had to demonstrate this for AF.

In 2014, I had posted.
viewtopic.php?p=1675297#p1675297

Karan M wrote: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 126891.ece

Guys this is *big* news. Basically, DRDO/LRDE have worked out the multipath reflection issue which was what scuppered Trishul-Naval version as well. It was the last "holdout" of the Trishul program, in that while the IA/IAF version were deemed ok, the Naval one kept running into this issue & was ultimately dropped in favor of Barak-1
Expect the learnings to be leveraged for the SRSAM & other programs.

The key reason for the original SRSAM proposal was seeker tech. With 9 systems, its doubtful TOT will be involved. However, the fact that DRDO now has a QRSAM program points to seeker availability, until and unless its a command guided system which is very doubtful.

John · Post by **John** » 18 Nov 2015 04:36

Interesting in the fact IN has chosen to not go with upgraded barak 1 missiles and instead going with a new system. Hopefully it incorporates some of CAMM features and offer cheap alternative to barak-8 for point defense purpose. Similar to how royal navy plans to use CAMM+Aster 30 for its layered air defense.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2015 07:18

this could be the tech base of the brahmos2, the cancelled AS-x-19 koala
http://files.ruslet.webnode.cz/20000056 ... -19_05.jpg

article from 2013:
http://in.rbth.com/economics/2013/10/23 ... lity_30325

By the end of this year, Moscow will test its newest ballistic missile, the RS-26 Rubezh (which means frontier in Russian) equipped with hypersonic manoeuvring nuclear units. As Colonel General Vladimir Zarudnitsky, chief of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, said to Vladimir Putin, this system will significantly expand the ability of Russian strategic nuclear forces to overcome missile defence systems. The technical specifications of the new missile have not been disclosed. However, public recognition of the fact that it has “hypersonic manoeuvring nuclear units” indicates it is an ultimate weapon.

“Ballistic missiles have a certain trajectory and power supply capacity. It is rather difficult to reach beyond these parameters in the development of new models of this type,” says Vladimir Dvorkin, the former head of the 4th Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defence (the institution that studies the effects of nuclear weapons). “So currently the only thing that can be upgraded is most likely the warhead of ballistic missiles.”

Back in 1997, then Chief of General Staff Yury Baluyevsky announced proudly that Russia had developed a hypersonic cruise vehicle (HCV). Its flight path is non-classical, meaning it doesn't follow the classic parabola like a modern nuclear warhead, but can arbitrarily change directions. HCVs can enter outer space, and then re-enter the earth's atmosphere. A conventional nuclear warhead enters the dense layers of the atmosphere at a speed of 5,000 metres per second. The speed of the HCV is twice as high. This makes it very hard to detect with radar missile defence systems. In addition, as military personnel note, the HCV can be retargeted throughout its entire flight, unlike conventional warheads.

Currently, the U.S. is working on several hypersonic missiles: the HySTR, Hyper-X, and X-34. Some of them are modelled on the strategic ballistic missiles that were removed from service.

But there are other missiles. For example, at the MAKS-2013 air show a representative of the BrahMos Russian-Indian venture admitted that soon India will receive a hypersonic version of the anti-ship missile. According to him, a hypersonic engine for it has already been created and tested. The only ‘but’ delaying the finished product is the lack of materials that can protect its guidance system from overheating and subsequent failure. However, as can be seen from the work of the Russians, Moscow has already solved this problem. Not so long ago, Vladimir Popovkin, the former head of the Federal Space Agency, said that testing is being completed on the Zircon missile system. It includes a new hypersonic missile, created on the basis of the Onyx supersonic cruise missile (Russia's equivalent of the Indian BrahMos).

In early 1997 engineers from the Raduga Design Bureau in Dubna (located just outside Moscow) displayed a new class of airborne vehicle -- the Kh-90 hypersonic experimental cruise missile -- at the International Aviation Aerospace Salon (MAKS) in Zhukovsky. In the West, it was called the AS-19 Koala.

This rocket was made to replace the Kh-55 strategic cruise missile that is carried by the Tu-160 bomber. Its flight range was 3,000 km. The missile could carry two warheads with individual guidance, each capable of hitting targets at a distance of 100 km from the point of separation. The carrier of the X-90 was to be a modernised version of the Tu-160M strategic bomber. However, according to official data, work on the missile was suspended in 1992.

There were also more exotic designs. For example, one of the missile design bureaus proposed placing several supersonic or hypersonic cruise missiles instead of a nuclear warhead in a heavy ballistic missile. The designers thought that with this weapon, the Soviet Union would have been able to engage U.S. aircraft carrier fleets anywhere in the world directly from Siberia. A ballistic missile would carry the warhead into the targeted area, and there the cruise missiles themselves would detect and strike the target. The idea was abandoned because of its exorbitant cost, and the Koala was left as the only tangible evidence of the scientists' hypersonic research. All other development was kept top secret.

But after the United States stepped up its own work on hypersonic cruise vehicles, Moscow returned to its own hypersonic “trump cards,” including the RS-26 Rubezh “manoeuvring nuclear unit” ballistic missile.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Nov 2015 10:44

Tracking vessel in the making at Cochin yard - S.Anandan, The Hindu

A top secret vessel, which will bestow the country’s defence research establishment with a rare capability to track the full flight of future long-range naval missile systems, is in the making in Kochi.{Why only naval missiles? It can track everything including Pakistani & Chinese missiles.}

The public sector Cochin Shipyard, which is in the final stages of constructing India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, is learnt to have been contracted by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to build a ‘technology demonstration vessel’ for the purpose in the next three years.

While both the DRDO and the yard remained tight-lipped about the project, it is understood that the contract, believed to be worth around Rs.365 crore, was signed between the yard and the end-user in early August this year. Once ready, the 130-metre-long vessel built to commercial standards specifications, will be fitted with ‘user-supplied equipment.’ Sources in the DRDO suggested that the ship would have an array of sensors and radars to track flight of long-range missiles during test-firing.

“The DRDO and the Navy are in the forefront of indigenisation of maritime systems and several new naval missiles of varying range are being developed at the moment. Equipped with sensors, the ship will be deployed at sea to track the full flight path of longer range missiles that are under development,” said a top official.

Just as the DRDO is jointly developing the long-range surface-to-air missile (LR-SAM), also called Barak 8, with the Israel Aerospace Industries, naval weapons development in India is set for a huge leap with the ‘K’ series of submarine-launched missiles such as K-15 and K-4.

To be fitted on board the Arihant-class of submarines, the K-15, a.k.a B-05, missile is said to have a range of over 720 km while the bigger K-4s will have an operational range of 3,500 km. Missiles with longer ranges are also being talked about, pointed out a source.

The original contract for construction of the vessel was signed with Bharati Shipyard, but time overruns forced by the yard’s poor finances led to termination of the contract with the penalty clause.

Subsequently, the Cochin Shipyard won the bid to execute the prestigious project.

srin · Post by **srin** » 21 Nov 2015 11:36

^^^ Is this similar to the one being constructed at HSL ?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Nov 2015 16:11

srin wrote:^^^ Is this similar to the one being constructed at HSL ?

The one being built at HSL is 175m.

I think there is more than meets the eye. One of these may be a missile tracking vessel, while the other may be a true BMD system. Or possibly a spy ship.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Nov 2015 16:21

As per this item from 2013, BSL had multiple orders from the Navy:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 824660.ece

....

The commissioning of the Indian Navy’s high-end vessels, slated for this year-end, is likely to be delayed following prolonged labour unrest at the Bharati Shipyard Limited’s (BSL) ship building yard here.

BSL, helped by its reputation for the speedy completion and delivery of large offshore vessels, had edged out its competitor ABG Shipyards Limited to bag orders to deliver as many as six vessels to the Indian Navy, according to the company’s financial results published on its website. Four of these vessels were being built at BSL’s second Greenfield Yard (after Dabhol) in Tannirubhavi.

...

nash · Post by **nash** » 22 Nov 2015 09:38

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ Retweeted
Hemant Rout ‏@Hemant_TNIE 23m23 minutes ago
#India conducts a developmental trial of AAD interceptor #missile from Abdul Kalam island off Odisha coast. @NewIndianXpress @PrabhuChawla

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ Retweeted
Hemant Rout ‏@Hemant_TNIE 20m20 minutes ago
#DRDO claims the interceptor missile fired against an electronic target demonstrates it's killing capability. @NewIndianXpress @PrabhuChawla

But no news link so far

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 22 Nov 2015 10:48

link is here:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 905298.ece

srin · Post by **srin** » 22 Nov 2015 14:49

Regarding Hemant Rout's tweet - why DRDO "claims" and not "says" ? Doesn't he believe it ?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Nov 2015 21:14

Series of Missile Tests Planned off Odisha Coast.

A series of missile tests have been planned in the next few days from the launching complexes of Integrated Test Range (ITR), a couple of days after the new director of the test facility took charge.

Director Binay Kumar Das is the second Odia to acquire the elevated post after Shaktipada Dash.

The post was vacant after former director MVKV Prasad was selected Director of Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE).

Meanwhile, preparation has begun at both the launching complexes of ITR at Chandipur and Abdul Kalam Island (formerly Wheeler Island) for test fire of indigenously developed nuclear capable missiles Agni-I, Prithvi-II and an interceptor missile besides flight testing of Lakshya pilotless target aircraft.

While interceptor missile AAD has been scheduled for its 11th developmental test by the Defence Research and Developmental Organisation (DRDO) on Sunday, Agni-I and Prithvi-II missiles are planned to be held later this month.

The Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of Indian Army would carry out the user trials of both the missiles.

Flight test of an improved version of indigenously developed endo-atmosphereic interceptor missile would be conducted against an electronic target from the Kalam Island.

A team comprising more than a 100 scientists and technical staff are camping at the launching centre for the mission.

Schedule of Missile Tests

■ AAD scheduled for 11th developmental test by DRDO on Sunday

■ Tests of Agni-I and Prithvi-II missiles are planned to be held later this month

■ Strategic Forces Command of Indian Army would carry out user trials of Agni-I and Prithvi-II missiles

■ Plans on the anvil to deploy anti ballistic missile in New Delhi within a year or two to safeguard the National Capital from hostile attacks

A defence official said, success of the launch will pave the way for its induction in the armed forces. Earlier, of the 10 tests, seven in endo-atmospheric region (below the altitude of 40 km) and three in exo-atmosphere (above an altitude of 80 km), eight have been successful.

“If this test proves successful, the missile would later be fired against an actual target missile, a modified version of Prithvi weapon system,” he said.

On April 6, a test of the indigenously built interceptor missile, dubbed as ‘Ashwin’ had failed as the missile nosedived within a couple of seconds after take off from mobile launcher. No major damage was reported.

Meanwhile, the country is planning to deploy anti ballistic missile (ABM) defence shield in New Delhi within a year or two to safeguard the National Capital from hostile attacks.

Sources said two long range tracking radars (LRTRs), jointly developed by DRDO and an Israeli company having ranges of around 1,000 km have been positioned in New Delhi and they are being integrated into the surveillance network of Indian Air Force (IAF).

Similarly, the SFC is also readying to carry out fresh user trials of 700-km range nuclear capable missile Agni-I and 350-Km range Prithvi-II.

Both the missiles have already been inducted in the armed forces and this will be a limited stock production (LSP) test, for which the missiles have been randomly selected from a bunch of missiles.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 24 Nov 2015 22:40

Haven't seen this camo scheme before ...

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 25 Nov 2015 02:21

India test fires nuclear-capable Dhanush missile.

India on Tuesday successfully test-fired its nuclear-capable Dhanush ballistic missile with a strike range of 350 km from a naval ship off the Odisha coast, said sources.

The surface-to-surface Dhanush was test fired from INS Subhadra in the Bay of Bengal, said sources.

It is a naval variant of India's indigenously-developed Prithvi missile.

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) sources said the launch is successful as the missile reached the designated target.

Sources said Dhanush missile is capable of carrying conventional as well as nuclear payload of 500 kg and can hit both land and sea-based targets under 350 km range.

It has already been inducted in the armed forces.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 25 Nov 2015 06:08

Aditya G wrote:Haven't seen this camo scheme before ...

/Speculation alert.
Thats not a camo scheme, thats the 'testing' paint scheme of a new missile. The white/black paint job allows scientists to analyse rotation and other movements of the missile simply by looking at the video of the launch. It also looks like there is a much larger second stage, that is a composite. The same 'shiny brown' color scheme is seen atop the second stage of the A IV, which is known to be composite. To me at least, this is a completely new missile that hasnt been documented before! Amazing.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Nov 2015 06:16

sudeepj wrote:
Aditya G wrote:Haven't seen this camo scheme before ...

/Speculation alert.
Thats not a camo scheme, thats the 'testing' paint scheme of a new missile. The white/black paint job allows scientists to analyse rotation and other movements of the missile simply by looking at the video of the launch. It also looks like there is a much larger second stage, that is a composite. The same 'shiny brown' color scheme is seen atop the second stage of the A IV, which is known to be composite. To me at least, this is a completely new missile that hasnt been documented before! Amazing.

It's an old photo. It's a dhanush variant. Ship born missiles like this are useless in the military sense. Probably used more now for research. I've always wondered if they could use them to conduct upper atmospheric nuclear tests over the Indian ocean since the world powers have every inch of the Thar covered. Could be a nasty surprise.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 25 Nov 2015 06:29

Its a file photo, for a ballistic missile what are the sea targets it can be used for? the report says sea targets as well.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Nov 2015 07:14

^^ For all we know, might have been cover for a K-05/K-15 test ( maybe from the Arihant)?

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 25 Nov 2015 07:53

it might well be but usually their press releases are precise.

what if they have flown it as a BMD target missile following exactly the same path as the electronic target of the AAD test done a few days before, only the launch location changes

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 25 Nov 2015 11:21

I dont think they need to cover k-15 tests anymore. k-05- yes.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Nov 2015 21:04

I've dwelt upon this for a long time.What's the use of a single or two Dhanush SSMs aboard an OPV? OK,the OPV has a dual use capability.What comes to mind is the method of launch certified,more important. Any vessel with a helo hangar and deck of min size as our OPVs could therefore be used as platforms for Dhanush. One hasn't any info on whether ripple firing of Dhanush has taken place from an OPV which could arguably hold two missiles.How long it would take to launch the second missile. We could even use container ships armed with multiple Dhanush missiles as a surprise for our nuisance neighbor! The range also seems to be too little.A warship would have to sail too close to the Paki shore to reach targets inland.Therefore the actual range must be greater.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 26 Nov 2015 00:18

vasu raya wrote:what if they have flown it as a BMD target missile following exactly the same path as the electronic target of the AAD test done a few days before, only the launch location changes

apologies if I don't get it but what would that accomplish? Shouldn't they be testing the interceptor missile rather than the target.