2020 US election results discussion

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 05:48

I heard one anecdote from my first cousin twice removed. That one and friends were given a free run on a booth to keep stamping on one symbol for one full hour. All they could do was stamp a few hundred each.

In India's recent 2019 general election, my BIL and his colleague were deputed to be poll workers at a polling station. Photo voter IDs numbers are crossed check with rolls and the number of votes cast at the polling station must match the number of votes registered in the EVMs. If there is a discrepancy, then there is an audit and local EC officials can quickly determine the discrepancy. Much like a cash register. The US has no such system.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 06:06

Mort Walker wrote:
nachiket wrote: Considering that the ballots are the same I am wondering how and why the Democrats would rig the presidential one and not the COngressional seat down the ballot.
Therein lies the problem. Nationally, several hundred thousand ballots were marked for Biden and no down ballot selection which is problematic.

In the US there are two problems which has manifested itself in the 2020 US election:
1. There is no consistent checking of identification from state to state. In India there are over 850 million people who have biometric photo voter IDs.
2. Mail-in ballots are subject to more vote fraud, particularly unsolicited ballots (this is where the individual did not request a ballot), where political parties and entities can harvest and submit ballots. Mamta Banerjee and Laloo would have a field day with this system. They would ensure a free and fair election, but we would all know the outcome.

As it stands today, less than 100,000 votes in GA, PA, WI, MI, AZ, and NV have made the difference in the election.

I was a polling agent last in 2015 in Bharat. Till that time voter id was preferred but not mandatory. If your name was in rolls and you had someother id which also included bank passbook, you were allowed to vote. But booth staff and especially polling agents can exercise great power if they actually know the details.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2020 06:28

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Nov 2020 06:43

^^ Aa just curious how any of this is relevant to India/Indians causes( there seems to be a seperate thread for that with Biden impact on India) and why a thread discussing a foreign country election and the election procedures etc being allowed?

Would we be discussing other elections like TSP/Nepal etc too in separate new threads?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2020 06:54

Edited.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2020 06:59

sum wrote:^^ Aa just curious how any of this is relevant to India/Indians causes( there seems to be a seperate thread for that with Biden impact on India) and why a thread discussing a foreign country election and the election procedures etc being allowed?

Would we be discussing other elections like TSP/Nepal etc too in separate new threads?

I guess a request was made on the other thread by Ambar and hence this thread was opened by the power that be. The US is somewhat of a special country since it is the most powerful country both economically and militarily. China communist party jumboree was discussed as well, IIRC.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Nov 2020 07:00

AZ – Automatic recount if <0.1%. No requested recounts allowed.
GA – No automatic recount, but requested recount if < 0.5%
PA – Automatic recount if < 0.5%, No margin required if requested by any Candidate
NV - No automatic recount but defeated candidate may request. No margin required.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 07:15

saip wrote:AZ – Automatic recount if <0.1%. No requested recounts allowed.
GA – No automatic recount, but requested recount if < 0.5%
PA – Automatic recount if < 0.5%, No margin required if requested by any Candidate
NV - No automatic recount but defeated candidate may request. No margin required.

The process is not over. If state courts reject a candidate's request for recount, then appeals to higher courts will be made along with irregularities. The electoral college must resolve disputed by 08 DEC and take a vote on 13 DEC. There is time.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Nov 2020 07:49

^^ The electoral college ballots must reach the Government Archivist by FOURTH WEDNESDAY in December (23rd). Joint Session of the Congress will then count the ballots (Jan 6th?). If still no President is decided then House of Representative will elect the President and the Senate will elect the Vice President. So a Dem President and (probably) a Republican Vice. Yea, get the pop corn and another bottle of Royal Salute . No matter what, TRUMP"S time (and Pence time) ends at Noon on 20th January 2021.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 07:54

^^^Which means there is enough time to go through the process. Al Gore was given 37 days, so should Trump. Whether you open a bottle of Royal Salute or Gaumutra is none of my business.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Nov 2020 08:10

Gaumutra is for you to drown your sorrows. Not for me, Sir. BTW I have no bankruptcies to my name unlike Trump who has a bankruptcy for each foot of his height (I am over 6' too)

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 08:14

^^^It appears you suffer from TDS. Take it somewhere else as this is BRF and it is India centric. It is too early to declare a winner. There is still time. Results are not complete from AK, AZ, PA, NC and GA. Let those finish first and then court actions will proceed.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 10 Nov 2020 08:55

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Which means there is enough time to go through the process. Al Gore was given 37 days, so should Trump. Whether you open a bottle of Royal Salute or Gaumutra is none of my business.

100% well said.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 10 Nov 2020 08:55

[quote="Mort Walker"][quote="nachiket"]

"Therein lies the problem. Nationally, several hundred thousand ballots were marked for Biden and no down ballot selection which is problematic"
I am not familiar with the US electoral process. Can you explain how this works? Would it be a case of Democratic Party getting ballot paper printed with Democratic nominee's name and mass mailed to all voters? So the voter has the choice of putting in his signature if he wants to support the Democratic nominee or throw it in the waste paper bin?
Thanks.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 09:01

Even China which would love to see Trump drown in Pacific ocean, is refusing to congratulate Biden for now. So have Russia and many other countries. America has lost all its moral superiority over world. Doesn't matter if Biden is formalised as a "president"at a later stage. This "election" is less about biden "defeating" Trump and more about deep state replacing Democracy that too without any pretense. And what better way to show their power by getting an insipid and borderline senile candidate like Biden elected. Their is no doubt now in the minds of Putin, Xi or even Modi on who controls the lever of Power in America. The unholy combination of Military Industrial complex, Intelligence agencies and corporate world with transnstional interests including Big Tech, have shown the world who is the boss. Presidents like Trump or Biden will come and go. And they better suck up to the powers that be and not upset the applecart if they want to get reelected. Trump is actually lucky in the sense that he just lost the so called " Elections " and didn't end up in a morgue.

If I were in place of Namo, I would request Ajit Doval and other Chiefs to increase the interaction with heads of CIA, NSA and other alphabet soup agencies. Same goes for working level cooperation between the respective agencies. We already have some cooperation between the militaries especially with PACCOM. Even Centcom should be engaged. Plus permanent liason should be maintained with SOCOM/JSOC.

Also Big Tech owned social media should be totally banned. They couldn't be controlled by Trump so what chance an Indian PM like Namo has. Twitter's shutting of Trump's tweets is definitely an indicator of things to come. So is media's deliberate hiding of Hunter Biden's adventures and pollsters fake surveys according to which Biden was sweeping the polls better than even the Charismatic Obama.

The whole episode has only reinforced what many people knew already. I.e America is in the same category as China, Iran or Russia. In fact the latter are atleast better in one respect. They save their electoral process costs. Lol

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » 10 Nov 2020 09:02

Not sure -- where this NEWS channel is "centered .." -- etc etc ..

Case in POINT : GWINNETT county Georgia

Total Pop 935,000+

Registered Voter's: 581,000+

Children: 6.5 % of Total population

People BELOW 18 (ineligible to VOTE) --> 26.2 %

VOTES -- cast & counted: 811,000

Of Course -- it was a BIDEN win ..

https://ifenewsnetwork.com/exclusive-pr ... unearthed/

>>
As per the Election Summary Report for Gwinnet County, Georgia
Total Population: 936,250
Total Registered Voters: 581,467
Voter Participation: 408,268 (70.21%)
Ballots Cast?

811,836.

1.36 ballots per registered voter.
1.99 ballots per participating voter.
<<

This will get more & more twisted -- popcorn time -- I guess ...

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Nov 2020 09:10

Also Big Tech owned social media should be totally banned. They couldn't be controlled by Trump so what chance an Indian PM like Namo has. Twitter's shutting of Trump's tweets is definitely an indicator of things to come. So is media's deliberate hiding of Hunter Biden's adventures and pollsters fake surveys according to which Biden was sweeping the polls better than even the Charismatic Obama.

So again China has done the right thing and kept all the folks in their own versions.

Indians are 400% hooked to the "big tech Social Media" and there is zero drive for any desi replacement. So, one can imagine what the effect will be in the next Indian GE

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 09:19

^^^I agree which is the reason Twitter and FB should be banned like TikTok as national security threats.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 10 Nov 2020 09:21

darshhan wrote: Also Big Tech owned social media should be totally banned. They couldn't be controlled by Trump so what chance an Indian PM like Namo has. Twitter's shutting of Trump's tweets is definitely an indicator of things to come. So is media's deliberate hiding of Hunter Biden's adventures and pollsters fake surveys according to which Biden was sweeping the polls better than even the Charismatic Obama.

The whole episode has only reinforced what many people knew already. I.e America is in the same category as China, Iran or Russia. In fact the latter are atleast better in one respect. They save their electoral process costs. Lol

Indian polity doesn't seem to understand even some experts have been saying for some time.

There is some Modi-Dorsey photo like Raja doing ghulam to colonial officer.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 09:32

nandakumar wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
"Therein lies the problem. Nationally, several hundred thousand ballots were marked for Biden and no down ballot selection which is problematic"
I am not familiar with the US electoral process. Can you explain how this works? Would it be a case of Democratic Party getting ballot paper printed with Democratic nominee's name and mass mailed to all voters? So the voter has the choice of putting in his signature if he wants to support the Democratic nominee or throw it in the waste paper bin?
Thanks.

In many states you can leave parts of a ballot blank if you choose to vote NOTA for the particular elected office. There are claims that over 400,000 ballots were marked only for president as Biden and remaining down ballot seats such as members of congress and state assembly were not marked at all. Only the president selection was made. In the process of ballot collection known as ballot harvesting by political parties and private entities, there is the real possibility that money or some other exchange was offered for marking the ballot a particular way - a quick transaction. Historically, Republicans have done voter suppression and intimidation and the Democratic party has done vote bank politics to ensure that people in inner cities vote for the party or registered people who are not eligible to vote, such as the deceased. If one looks at the vote margins, the major victories for the Biden campaign came from congested inner cities.

The US seriously needs a Central Election Commision as in India. Without it, chaos will continue.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 10 Nov 2020 10:36

Basically - the US has a very strong voting system with checks and balances. The current state is about being poor losers. Trump had said in 2016 that he would only accept the election results if he won.

But all the legal challenges will create only problems for DJT and his legacy. Claims need to be backed with proof.

If one does not want to vote for others standing for election - that is not a proof of anything sinister. Most of the time you're looking at a ballot that you have no interest in save for the Presidential election. So - this will be challenged in courts and come back with the same result.

The congested inner cities are majority African American dominated - and they voted against DJT.

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 10 Nov 2020 11:07

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Which means there is enough time to go through the process. Al Gore was given 37 days, so should Trump. Whether you open a bottle of Royal Salute or Gaumutra is none of my business.

Err, 2016 election is a far better analogy with the states and margins involved. And really, Gore was not going around dropping random b.s. and trying to undermine the election process towards his benefit like Trump has been for weeks (because he knew he was going to lose). There would have been a civil war if Trump was in the same situation as Gore. But it's okay, you have your partisan blinders on.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 11:38

The voting system in the US is dependent on individual states, the Federal Election Commission has little control which is why it is in such a sorry state. Bihar just conducted elections which are more free and fair elections than almost any other state in the US. The US is a sham democracy.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 11:42

Vivek K wrote:Basically - the US has a very strong voting system with checks and balances.

Naah

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 10 Nov 2020 11:49

^^^Because you did not get the result you wanted does not mean the system is broken.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 11:51

Vivek K wrote:^^^Because you did not get the result you wanted does not mean the system is broken.

The mail in ballot system is prone to fraud. Imagine if Bihar had it even in this pandemic time. MGB would be a shoe-in.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 12:11

Vivek K wrote:^^^Because you did not get the result you wanted does not mean the system is broken.

I am a Proud Bhartiya citizen and not an American. What goes of my father if either one is elected. However as I said earlier American electoral process is now exposed all over the world and they have lost their moral superiority. Now they are just Thugs with nuclear weapons and stealth bombers.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 10 Nov 2020 12:15

And GWB won because of mail in ballots in FL. Its time to move on. Even if GA and AZ could be overturned, it will not make a difference to the outcome of the election. But DJT will go to courts and have people he put into the SCOTUS turn their backs on him and certify JB.

Just because a system is prone to fraud, does not make it fraudulent. And there was massive voter suppression put in place in this election by every Republican Governor.

At the end of the day - Republicans need to re-group and work for 2024 instead of lowering the dignity of the American system and democracy.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 12:26

Vivek K wrote:And GWB won because of mail in ballots in FL. Its time to move on. Even if GA and AZ could be overturned, it will not make a difference to the outcome of the election. But DJT will go to courts and have people he put into the SCOTUS turn their backs on him and certify JB.

Just because a system is prone to fraud, does not make it fraudulent. And there was massive voter suppression put in place in this election by every Republican Governor.

At the end of the day - Republicans need to re-group and work for 2024 instead of lowering the dignity of the American system and democracy.

The mail-in ballots were solicited in 2000 not sent out and harvested, they were mostly military ballots. In 2020, no Republican governor engaged in voter suppression. Had there been even a scent of that the Anti-Trump media would have gone apeshit. It is very unlikely that SCOTUS will hear Trump's case after the recount and rejection in the lower courts. The whole purpose to have the recount and question the irregularities is not to have another fraudulent election like 2020 and ban unsolicited mail-in ballots. The US system is very corrupt as it stands today and needs a strong Federal Election Commission. Let's see what happens by 08 DEC. Until that time, Biden is not president elect.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 12:34

Vivek K wrote:And GWB won because of mail in ballots in FL. Its time to move on. Even if GA and AZ could be overturned, it will not make a difference to the outcome of the election. But DJT will go to courts and have people he put into the SCOTUS turn their backs on him and certify JB.

Just because a system is prone to fraud, does not make it fraudulent. And there was massive voter suppression put in place in this election by every Republican Governor.

At the end of the day - Republicans need to re-group and work for 2024 instead of lowering the dignity of the American system and democracy.

Why should we as Bhartiyas be concerned what GWB did or what Republicans should do in future? Screw them. For all I am concerned they might as well dissolve the party.

The point is that USA is no longer a democracy. It is just like Iran or Russia only technologically more advanced. Shouldn't give moral sermons to anyone.

How will it wage future wars on the premise of spreading "Democracy and Freedom"?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Nov 2020 12:38

^^^The US was never a democracy. It is a Republic which has a flawed voting system. What is happening now is that the veil of corruption is coming off exposing the US system for what it is. In the past, only white property holders could vote, after that only white men, then white men and women, and finally colored people. When it was realized colored people could be used as a vote bank, the process was modified to favor a party which is one predisposed to Islamists and anarchists.

How will it wage future wars on the premise of spreading "Democracy and Freedom"?

This time next year, the US will be involved in military action in some location around the world. Could be Venezuala or ME.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 10 Nov 2020 14:23

Mort Walker wrote:^^^I agree which is the reason Twitter and FB should be banned like TikTok as national security threats.

Twitter is a non entity in India amongst voting populace. YouTube, Facebook and whatsapp are.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 10 Nov 2020 14:33

Mort Walker wrote:
nandakumar wrote: Thanks.
In many states you can leave parts of a ballot blank if you choose to vote NOTA for the particular elected office. There are claims that over 400,000 ballots were marked only for president as Biden and remaining down ballot seats such as members of congress and state assembly were not marked at all. Only the president selection was made. In the process of ballot collection known as ballot harvesting by political parties and private entities, there is the real possibility that money or some other exchange was offered for marking the ballot a particular way - a quick transaction. Historically, Republicans have done voter suppression and intimidation and the Democratic party has done vote bank politics to ensure that people in inner cities vote for the party or registered people who are not eligible to vote, such as the deceased. If one looks at the vote margins, the major victories for the Biden campaign came from congested inner cities.
If I understood you correctly, the process can go something like this. A party can solicit votes on behalf of its candidate (possibly over a mail) by obtaining proper ballot paper and send it to a registered voter and have him return the ballot to party office address. Thereafter the party office can bulk deliver it at the polling booth on voting day or mail it to the election office. Is that how it is?

The US seriously needs a Central Election Commision as in India. Without it, chaos will continue.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Nov 2020 17:10

schinnas wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^I agree which is the reason Twitter and FB should be banned like TikTok as national security threats.
Twitter is a non entity in India amongst voting populace. YouTube, Facebook and whatsapp are.

This is a mistaken assumption IMHO. Twitter threads are "screenshot" and sent via the above channels as key messages. It plays a significant role in that sense apart from influencing many middle class folks. They don't believe WA forwards but take Twitter threads as accurate.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 10 Nov 2020 18:47

Vivek K wrote:^^^Because you did not get the result you wanted does not mean the system is broken.

That is correct. I think this time COVID has had the opposite effect of enabling otherwise suppressed voters to get their vote in.

People still talking about voting fraud need to sit down.

Right now Trumpulu is looking for money to pay for the Wisconsin recount in addition to covering campaign debt. Meanwhile defense secretary is fired. Pampayya still going strong. It will be interesting to see how the whole transition thingy happens.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Nov 2020 18:56

Karan M wrote:
schinnas wrote:
Twitter is a non entity in India amongst voting populace. YouTube, Facebook and whatsapp are.
This is a mistaken assumption IMHO. Twitter threads are "screenshot" and sent via the above channels as key messages. It plays a significant role in that sense apart from influencing many middle class folks. They don't believe WA forwards but take Twitter threads as accurate.

I'm not so sure about that. Some of the media and Congress high hopes before the 2019 election were down to the apparent good reception NYAY and RG got on Twitter. Turned out to be all hot air in the end. What I've noticed is that Twitter seems to provide a warped picture to everyone because of the automatic bubble it creates around you because of who you follow. Leads people to think an opinion or person is far more widely popular/unpopular than in reality. This is apparent even in the US elections. Woke far-left ideology for example seems to be far more popular on Twitter than in the general US public leading to surprise and whining amongst that lot when one of their pet peeves fails spectacularly.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Nov 2020 20:11

@darshan, two countries which did not congratulate Biden are Brazil (understandable) and Mexico which is a surprise to me.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Nov 2020 21:07

nachiket wrote:
Karan M wrote:
This is a mistaken assumption IMHO. Twitter threads are "screenshot" and sent via the above channels as key messages. It plays a significant role in that sense apart from influencing many middle class folks. They don't believe WA forwards but take Twitter threads as accurate.
I'm not so sure about that. Some of the media and Congress high hopes before the 2019 election were down to the apparent good reception NYAY and RG got on Twitter. Turned out to be all hot air in the end. What I've noticed is that Twitter seems to provide a warped picture to everyone because of the automatic bubble it creates around you because of who you follow. Leads people to think an opinion or person is far more widely popular/unpopular than in reality. This is apparent even in the US elections. Woke far-left ideology for example seems to be far more popular on Twitter than in the general US public leading to surprise and whining amongst that lot when one of their pet peeves fails spectacularly.

The year mentioned will tell you the real story. 2019 was the last lok sabha elections. Next elections will come in 2024 after 5 years. 5 years wrt social media is a huge time period. Rest be assured twitter viewership in Bharat will increase exponentially within this time period. I would personally be surprised if compared to 2019 twitter viewership nos. 2024 numbers are less than 10x.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Nov 2020 21:55

Leonard wrote:Not sure -- where this NEWS channel is "centered .." -- etc etc ..

Case in POINT : GWINNETT county Georgia

Total Pop 935,000+

Registered Voter's: 581,000+

Children: 6.5 % of Total population

People BELOW 18 (ineligible to VOTE) --> 26.2 %

VOTES -- cast & counted: 811,000

Of Course -- it was a BIDEN win ..

https://ifenewsnetwork.com/exclusive-pr ... unearthed/

>>
As per the Election Summary Report for Gwinnet County, Georgia
Total Population: 936,250
Total Registered Voters: 581,467
Voter Participation: 408,268 (70.21%)
Ballots Cast?

811,836.

1.36 ballots per registered voter.
1.99 ballots per participating voter.
<<

This will get more & more twisted -- popcorn time -- I guess ...

According to this NBC with 100% votes in, in Gwinnet county Biden got 241,827 (58.4%) and Trump received 166,413 (40.2%) totalling 408,240. How did that number somehow become 811,836? The total registered voters in Gwinnet county (I just downloaded the excel spreadsheet from GA sec of state - a red blood republican. So no link but you can download too) is 582,917. In the link you provided, why are the commas so off in numbers? Is it an Indian link?

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Nov 2020 22:11

Raja wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^Which means there is enough time to go through the process. Al Gore was given 37 days, so should Trump. Whether you open a bottle of Royal Salute or Gaumutra is none of my business.
Err, 2016 election is a far better analogy with the states and margins involved. And really, Gore was not going around dropping random b.s. and trying to undermine the election process towards his benefit like Trump has been for weeks (because he knew he was going to lose). There would have been a civil war if Trump was in the same situation as Gore. But it's okay, you have your partisan blinders on.

True. Gore lost in his own state TN with 11 electoral votes. Had he won that he would have not needed FL which had some kind of manual voting system. Cards had to be punched (with a hole puncher?) . Then you heard of hanging chads, pregnant chads etc. They had to be manually verified as obviously machines could not count them. Even then there were disputes as they could not decide who should get the vote if it is just a pregnant chad etc. SO finally, the supreme court, decided 5-4 to stop the count awarded the election to Bush. Now it would be 6-3 in Trump's favor. SCOTUS too is politically inclined. But that is the way it is and its decision will be final. Until then why bring unsubstantiated conpiracy theories pedalled mostly by republicans?