Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Sep 2013 12:26

mahadevbhu wrote: I like the Thinkpads keyboards. They are curved at the right places, and not flat like the macbooks.

TP has for a while switched to the same style of chiclet keyboard as on MBPs . T430s and newer ones all have them. The best thing that TP has is the red trackpoint it actually comes closest to replacing a mouse (Dell tried to copy that with a blue button but failed miserably) . The new keyboards are better for Indian conditions as there is a lesser likely hood of dust and stuff getting under the keys.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Sep 2013 17:35

iphone 5C is coming for sure next week. HD displays are fairly common now in pandaphones. MSFT needs to close the one glaring hole in its spec sheet which is display resolution. granted WP8 is forgiving of low res screens vs android, but still for 20K+ phones like 625 and 820 the current 800x480 is sub-par esp on the 4.7" of the 625 and even on the 820 to be fair. the 720 could also use more pixels imo.

that might take up more power, which means the batteries also need a leg up.

nothing stands still. todays M2K is tomorrows Mig19. NOK need to stop patting themselves on the back for their camera, build quality, clearblack and other good deeds and move into engineering mode again. dont obsess about the US market and its carriers it will take a good time to increase mktshare there. dont put all resources into 9xx+ series.

they need to grab eyeballs and mkshare in big markets with unlocked phone price limitations like India , Russia, China, Japan, UK(they have 13% share), France, Germany, Indonesia, TSP ...... that means in 15K-25K price range they need 3 solid and constantly updated products.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Sep 2013 17:38

820 has reached sasural; it's getting rave reviews there. Dushman ki kheme mein khalbal mach chuki hai.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Sep 2013 17:49

MSFT needs to come out with FREE express editions of outlook and office (say only word and excel with limited features) bundle them with WP8 , put a solid battery with at least 12+ hours stamina on 4G/LTE . In Massa choporate companies are a big market , there was a time when every suit used to carry a Blackberry and now we only see iPhones and Androids being offered as COCP phones in all major firms in Massa. MSFT needs to infiltrate that market by bundling it's key products like Outlook and Office with it's handsets. After there is enough traction they can then start chor bazaar like iStore or Google store.

Btw it's funny that how 5 years back MSFT was the dog in town and others were the underdogs and now that tables are turned we all have become sympathetic towards MSFT.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Sep 2013 17:57

thx sriny.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Sep 2013 19:21

negi wrote:820 has reached sasural; it's getting rave reviews there. Dushman ki kheme mein khalbal mach chuki hai.

heh heh told ya. now sit tight and lap up the brownie points and phone hugs

btw I think the update that enables 1080p on WP8 is now available to india users as well. I did a update over the wifi today and it fetched a huge update consisting both nok and windows stuff from the server and rebooted. so on SW front green flag is there for better ppi screens on the mid and low end.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Sep 2013 19:36

What's with all the newly converted WP8 faithfools trying to be more pious than the others

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Sep 2013 19:40

people need something that looks good, works fast and doesnt lag. wp8 & android are the only affordable mid range kit and you know how smoothly android works on such hw. and how dated and desktopy its look is. the LAST thing I want on my phone is a replica of the window manager desktop I stare at all day long in the office.

kuch naya chahiye...something hot...something slick from android. maybe key lime pie is it...but not holding my breath over it. letting vendors mess with it was a big mistake imho. nobody made it better. all made it worse to varying degrees

the pandas in particular are making "deep mods" to it if the reports of lenovo and xiaomi are correct .... I shudder to imagine what they are doing in there

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 Sep 2013 19:45

I told to a very close friend - If you are clueless and stupid go for Iphone. if you are smart and explorative then go for Android. if you are loyal then got Win-Phone.

I am using Wp8 and my shq uses Samsung Galaxy.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 07 Sep 2013 19:45

Negi Saar,all WP8 phones come with Office editing capability built in, and their Exchange email capability is second to none, as you might expect.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Sep 2013 19:47

those who use ms products are like congress supporters, androids are the bajapas, and those who use iphonewa are mostly rigid regimental and associated with marxism. just kidding.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 Sep 2013 19:49

BhairavP wrote:Negi Saar,all WP8 phones come with Office editing capability built in, and their Exchange email capability is second to none, as you might expect.

Not just that, if your corporate uses Lync then the integration is awesome. if your work uses ip-phones and is integrated into Lync then using your cellphone via Lync you can call from your office phone from anywhere. You can do SharePoint administration too.

Not that anyone wants to merge office and personal but those who want to maintain one device, it is an awesome choice.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Sep 2013 20:11

So, the tribe of Windows Phones grows...this abdul was it seems the first one with WP7 phone - LUMIA 800 - and RB-Mullah was making fun onleee about the hardware (actually, rightly so).

BTW - while downloading some home page tile modification apps, saw a message by developer that MSFT limits the scope of modification of home page...reminded me one of turtle-neck pullover wearing maulana.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Sep 2013 20:19

is airtel only one to offer LTE service in desh? they must be also planning for LTE advanced. any usage data from folks using it?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407897,00.asp Furthermore, it's not like the 2G and 3G networks are going away any time soon. Carriers have told us they're leaving their UMTS and EVDO networks live until at least 2020. So we will not enter a European-style paradise of interchangeable phones anytime soon.

does any know about this paradise?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Sep 2013 20:38

SriniY wrote:
SaiK wrote:can anyone point me to link or tell how do we get a sense of data rate measured over frequency. let us say 50mbps using 5GHz wireless tech.. what is the relationship between 50mbps and 5ghz? is there a table or something?
5GHz is the frequency of the carrier wave and it is usually got nothing to do with speed (almost all the time). Data is usually sent over 5/10/20MHz channels which are located at 1/2/5 GHz. Older WiFi gives about 65Mbps peak rate using 20MHz channel, while the latest greatest one can go up to a few hundred Mbps.

Carrier frequency is mostly related to coverage. Lower the carrier frequency more the coverage area for the same power transmitted.

This is correct. The 5 GHz frequency is of the carrier and the bandwidth is limited by 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac standards and by the WiFi group. They are also additionally limited by convention set by the ITU and FCC for the US and ECC for the EU.
The newer standards typically have a higher frequency bandwidth channel.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Sep 2013 20:41

SaiK wrote:is airtel only one to offer LTE service in desh? they must be also planning for LTE advanced. any usage data from folks using it?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407897,00.asp Furthermore, it's not like the 2G and 3G networks are going away any time soon. Carriers have told us they're leaving their UMTS and EVDO networks live until at least 2020. So we will not enter a European-style paradise of interchangeable phones anytime soon.
does any know about this paradise?

Gotta go now, but quickly the LTE standard will essentially be spread spectrum for voice and data to conserve bandwidth. It is more efficient and uses less power. Western Europe is switching over already and the US is behind as well as desh.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Sep 2013 21:42

SaiK wrote:those who use ms products are like congress supporters, androids are the bajapas, and those who use iphonewa are mostly rigid regimental and associated with marxism. just kidding.

Spot on. Best observation analysis I've seen in a while.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Sep 2013 21:59

Singha wrote: kuch naya chahiye...something hot...something slick from android. maybe key lime pie is it...but not holding my breath over it. letting vendors mess with it was a big mistake imho. nobody made it better. all made it worse to varying degrees the pandas in particular are making "deep mods" to it if the reports of lenovo and xiaomi are correct .... I shudder to imagine what they are doing in there

er..its KitKat not Key Lime Pie any more. KLP got KLPD'ed.

Xiaomi mods are actually pretty good unlike Sammy TouchWiz turd and perhaps in some ways even better than stock Android experience. But you have to remember, without letting vendors mess with it and having a free for all, Android would not have become so popular. As I keep saying, its the old Symbian platform model in a new batli with all its advantages and disadvantages. That's how Symbian became popular and GB became top dog. And now that's how Android has become popular and Sammy has become the top dog.

Chacha's primary goal was not to create soup-e-rear UX unlike say FruitCo but to seed as many devices into consumers' hands as possible. Chacha is a service provider so more the number of devices, more people use their services, more people go clicky-click on mobile ads and more Chacha's tiller goes ka-ching ka-ching. If iPhunwa hadn't been such a resounding success, Chacha wouldn't give 2 $hits about improving UX.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Sep 2013 22:21

^^^But it wasn't until late that Nokia let Symbian became true open source.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Sep 2013 22:31

^^^Nokia never owned Symbian except for a brief period (6 months or so), that's when they open sourced it for reasons best known to them. The commercial popularity of Android is not becoz its open source though it makes for good PR

.

Simply putting Android the OS on your device would make it no different than putting Ubuntu or some random OS distro or MS DOS on the device and for most consumers would be the equivalent of a dead brick. And you wont get any Chacha services with that either so it doesn't help Chacha either if I just take AOSP and put it in my product. To get Chacha services, each vendor pays Chacha a per-handset fee so the Android as a consumer knows it today is not really free - the cost is included in the price of your handset, just like WP or any of the older non-vertical platforms like Symbian or WinMo.

What made Android popular (just like Symbian back in the days) is the ability of vendors to customize specific parts of the platform including user facing elements, the aggressive push from QCOM (with whom Chacha partnered right from day 1) to provide good reference designs that made it so popular. On the retail side, this scalability was leveraged by the likes of Verizon with their long running buy-one-get-one-free deals which really made Android take off in 2009 - 2010. A lot of people who aspired for the iPhone but balked at the cost moved over to smartphones then. Don't think its any coincidence that Sammy faithfully used a lot of iPhone design cues - it was a very smart move on their part.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 07 Sep 2013 22:42

SriniY wrote:
SaiK wrote:can anyone point me to link or tell how do we get a sense of data rate measured over frequency. let us say 50mbps using 5GHz wireless tech.. what is the relationship between 50mbps and 5ghz? is there a table or something?
5GHz is the frequency of the carrier wave and it is usually got nothing to do with speed (almost all the time). Data is usually sent over 5/10/20MHz channels which are located at 1/2/5 GHz. Older WiFi gives about 65Mbps peak rate using 20MHz channel, while the latest greatest one can go up to a few hundred Mbps.

Carrier frequency is mostly related to coverage. Lower the carrier frequency more the coverage area for the same power transmitted.

And 5ghz transmissions have lesser interference by other 2.5 gz gizmos which have proliferated.
But keeping apart usefulness of 5gz for personal WiFi use - almost all long distance Wireless AP broadband operators in desh still use 2.5 gz gear. Recently had to reluctantly buy an 2.5 gz only outdoor client AP and had to invest in a parabolic antenna to go with it to catch that elusive 2.5 gz attenuating over 12 KM

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 07 Sep 2013 22:45

SaiK wrote:is airtel only one to offer LTE service in desh? they must be also planning for LTE advanced. any usage data from folks using it?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407897,00.asp Furthermore, it's not like the 2G and 3G networks are going away any time soon. Carriers have told us they're leaving their UMTS and EVDO networks live until at least 2020. So we will not enter a European-style paradise of interchangeable phones anytime soon.
does any know about this paradise?

First was Reliance rolling out 4g in Arunachal Pradesh of all places AFAIK.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Sep 2013 23:05

RB,

Android has been forked by Amazon, and seems to be in the forking process by Sammy when looking at the touch-screen displays of their fridges, and I don't know about the Sony Vita OS used for hand-held PS, but it seems a lot like a Android from the UI PoV.
GOOG may be fine with the manufacturers forking it as long as they can continue their revenue stream from main-stream Android distributions.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Sep 2013 23:39

Mort Walker wrote:RB,

Android has been forked by Amazon, and seems to be in the forking process by Sammy when looking at the touch-screen displays of their fridges,

Do you really think Chacha was happy with what Amazon did? They can't say anything about it either coz it was Chacha after all which claimed Android was open, free and it is (the OS i.e., not anything on top of it) so technically and legally Amazon has done nothing wrong at all.

Sammy is still in a deep relationship with Chacha, so would not want to piss him off right now. Now if Sammy really makes a clean break at some point, then you might see them really forking Android across all their mobile offerings. You are right, Chacha right now doesn't care if Sammy builds an Android fridge and doesn't use Chacha services becoz its a real niche market. But if/when Sammy decides to do a Takla style maneuver, you bet Chacha will care! Not for nothing did Andy Rubin blurt out publicly that Sammy was the #1 threat to Android, weeks before he was removed as head of Android.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Sep 2013 23:44

thanks mullahs.. btw, gettng 30mbps down, and 1mpbs up.. thinking seriously moving to att from timewarner. once they knocked at my door and said, they are offering a package deal that comes with fiber. (i was like.. are you serious? only chacha went fiber.. may be all are in the bandwagon) i did not listen.. now i am thinking.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 08 Sep 2013 00:18

Got a Lumia 520 for sister as a present. Should say the interface is much crispier than Android phones, from where I come. This thing should be the best 10k phone. The retailer I spoke to was ecstatic about Lumia 520 sales in Bangalore. They have started a new counter for Windows phone recently. And the sales persons were actively encouraging first time buyers to buy the Nokia WP phones. Good to see WP competing where it was least expected..lower end of the market!

Anyways..planning to get a high end Nokia Lumia for personal use in the next few months. Maybe an 825 if theres one!

SriniY · Post by **SriniY** » 08 Sep 2013 00:51

Lilo wrote:
SaiK wrote:is airtel only one to offer LTE service in desh? they must be also planning for LTE advanced. any usage data from folks using it?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407897,00.asp Furthermore, it's not like the 2G and 3G networks are going away any time soon. Carriers have told us they're leaving their UMTS and EVDO networks live until at least 2020. So we will not enter a European-style paradise of interchangeable phones anytime soon.

does any know about this paradise?
First was Reliance rolling out 4g in Arunachal Pradesh of all places AFAIK.

Rumor has it that Mukesh Ambani is also getting into the cellular business and will launch an LTE only network.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2013 03:10

NFC and business transactions, with safe and encrypted services can enhance market experience.. this is a huge area especially for desh type of convenience stores and e-purchasing.

I hope all mobile devices has this interface, and sends SMS about the transaction details.. one could virtually make all transaction cash-less, including high end walas especially in real-estate black market.

I want wireless technology to snap at corruption points. JMT.. a sudden thought of course.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 08 Sep 2013 03:55

Raja Bose wrote:On the retail side, this scalability was leveraged by the likes of Verizon with their long running buy-one-get-one-free deals which really made Android take off in 2009 - 2010. A lot of people who aspired for the iPhone but balked at the cost moved over to smartphones then. Don't think its any coincidence that Sammy faithfully used a lot of iPhone design cues - it was a very smart move on their part.

Also the fact that the iPhunwa was available only on AT&T for a long time. Changing providers was a pain and AT&T didn't have a good reputation. It became even worse after several people changed over and AT&T's infra couldn't handle the extra load. So people went for the next best thing, which in those days were the Droid and Evo offerings from Motor Oil and HTC. Sammy didn't take off till the Galaxy S came out (which for the time was quite a well designed phone) and even then was behind Motor Oil (and perhaps HTC) in sales. I don't really know how they managed to utterly crush both of them in just a few years. Marketing budget must have played a part although it can't be just that.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Sep 2013 06:23

negi wrote:820 has reached sasural; it's getting rave reviews there. Dushman ki kheme mein khalbal mach chuki hai.

As per your nukkad post sausral to farvari mein naa? Congrats and keep up the good work. You will need to up the ante - gold, watches, and gold watches

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Sep 2013 07:47

nachiket wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:On the retail side, this scalability was leveraged by the likes of Verizon with their long running buy-one-get-one-free deals which really made Android take off in 2009 - 2010. A lot of people who aspired for the iPhone but balked at the cost moved over to smartphones then. Don't think its any coincidence that Sammy faithfully used a lot of iPhone design cues - it was a very smart move on their part.
Also the fact that the iPhunwa was available only on AT&T for a long time. Changing providers was a pain and AT&T didn't have a good reputation. It became even worse after several people changed over and AT&T's infra couldn't handle the extra load.

Actually, you are right. This was an even more significant reason.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Sep 2013 08:05

does anyone think the replacement market for subsidized iphones in the USA (where pretty much anyone who wants a iphone, has a iphone) can sustain the apple growth story and stock price in the next 5 years?

or do they need to suck up to turd world markets with models like the C ?

one school of "jeffersonian purists" (as in gora commentators) are up in arms that the C is a abomination, dilutes their luxury appeal and is a affront to faithfool sensitivities like going into a church and peeing in the aisle

a "pragmatic/green flag planting" school thinks its time to focus on other lands and plant the green flag there in the name of Mahdi (pbuh). let the curved damascene scimitar of the Mahdi scythe through the throngs of kafir driods like ripening wheat...let blood fall on the dusty soil in the name of the mahdi for did he not say, the ends justify the means? and that only one true faith is permissible? all they need to do is find a 300ppi 4.7" screen, use much the same HW as iphone5 and price it worldwide around 22K...with a nice polycarbonate shell and sealed 2500mah battery. technologically its all there if they want it.

a third school "faizal khan charasi brigade" thinks all is cool and nothing is the problem so long as they release one flagship model to the howling mobs each year outside the great temple. a goat will be sacrificed, virgin blood sprinkled on the obsidian statue of the demon god bakol and the parched lands will be fertile again...

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Sep 2013 08:10

They need to suck up to the unwashed turd world.

I am not sure about FruitCo in 5 years honestly....really hard to tell at this moment if they will be around as the top dog they are now. Already we can see some mange on the dog's fur.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 08 Sep 2013 08:55

Raja Bose wrote:They need to suck up to the unwashed turd world. I am not sure about FruitCo in 5 years honestly....really hard to tell at this moment if they will be around as the top dog they are now. Already we can see some mange on the dog's fur.

They prospered for so long without doing that. What has changed?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2013 09:01

^^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-cFz5krqo8

?????

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Sep 2013 09:23

nachiket wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:They need to suck up to the unwashed turd world. I am not sure about FruitCo in 5 years honestly....really hard to tell at this moment if they will be around as the top dog they are now. Already we can see some mange on the dog's fur.
They prospered for so long without doing that. What has changed?

Market has changed but the main thing which has changed is that the Mahdi is no longer around to sell. That was always a key ingredient in FruitCo's strat-e-jee. Neither Bawarchi nor Sir Jani are salesmen. Maybe they should hire Takla.

---
Reminds me of the glowing ring in the 10 step Apple fanboi cycle

Rumored iPhone 5S packaging shows silver ring 'fingerprint sensor' around home button

And the S-Ring will be revealed in 3...2...1...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Sep 2013 09:58

is there a way or app to download jootube video? format?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Sep 2013 12:21

nachiket wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:They need to suck up to the unwashed turd world. I am not sure about FruitCo in 5 years honestly....really hard to tell at this moment if they will be around as the top dog they are now. Already we can see some mange on the dog's fur.
They prospered for so long without doing that. What has changed?

first world has below replacement level fertility in most places. anyone who wanted a iphone has got a iphone. so replacement market is secure unless they goof up.

but doesnt wall street always demand GROWING profits and top line growth as well ? just keeping ones market and revenue stable is perceived as 'not good enough' in wall street.

the problem is simple - the next 1 billion iphone consumers cannot afford the $650 it costs for a unlocked phone and carriers are too poor and bania and untrusting to go for subsidy model and 2 yr plans here. nobody can track his brother here let alone a consumer who dumps and runs.

so they have a problem ... and they have no experience or track record so far of making value for money mid range kit unlike the competition. some critical elements like big screen and SD card that is a must to attract the eyeballs and wallets of turd world consumers is sorely lacking. many turd worlders do not have a separate tablet for watching video and gaming hence the wild sales of phablets here. this again is one area where APPL has no clue and no plan on.

ab turd world akhara mein kushti larna hai to rules are different.....here all that gora chi chi turtleneck sweater attitude wont fly...wear a langoti and roll in the mud with tough Jat wrestlers or dont be a player at the table.

negi · Post by **negi** » 08 Sep 2013 13:20

Singha wrote:the problem is simple - the next 1 billion iphone consumers cannot afford the $650 it costs for a unlocked phone and carriers are too poor and bania and untrusting to go for subsidy model and 2 yr plans here.

GD you must be knowing this already from your brat's friend circle but on my last trip to Doon which is not a metro by any stretch of imagination I was surprised to find college and high school kids roaming with 15-20ish K INR phones and some of them are kids of my relatives. What is noteworthy is some of them come from very middle class families where father is the only earner in a Gobmint job , even if he earns say around 50-60k INR per month I find it very strange for such a household to splurge money on smartphones in this case uncle has 4 kids and each of them had a smart phone upwards of 15k INR and all of them barring the eldest son are still studying. It is my belief that a common Indian in 15-40 age group today is willing to spend a significantly higher % of his or her income on a smartphone as against someone in the Massa or even in EU. If you would observe fruit co's top management itself was surprised with the kind of response the 4 and 4s got in India despite almost a year delay in the launch, they thought that not many would buy these phones at such high price points what is even more surprising is that even a used 4S fetches a cool 15k INR in the grey market today . Let's say median monthly salary of an IT munna with 5 yr exp. is about 50k INR after tax , now for him or her to own a Galaxy SIII or anything which costs upwards of 20k INR translates to about 40% or above of his or her monthly salary. An unlocked iPhone in Unkil land costs 650$ and what is the median income of avg. middle class after tax , it's more than at least 2k USD .

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Sep 2013 13:25

Where they branded smart phones ???? these days you could get a so called smart phone for even under 5k