India-US Strategic News and Discussion

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 19 Dec 2013 17:39

^^^
- for not cooperating in tracking his wife
- for conspiring to blackmail the deplomat for money and illegal passport/visa status conversion

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 19 Dec 2013 17:42

Rohitvats ji,
There is always the law of preventive detention when issues are of such national significance - no need of any charging by law enforcement agencies upfront required in that case. As sensitive documents of national importance have indeed been stolen by Mrs Richards , Mr Richards can always be remanded into custody for interrogation .

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Dec 2013 17:45

rohitvats wrote:Please elaborate. Thanks.

Aiding an absconder or fugitive from law

Indian Penal Code

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 19 Dec 2013 17:46

vic wrote:Sallu and kerry will talk today and GoI will surrender tomorrow and settle for regret about the gang Rape of Dalit Indian woman Diplomat who refused to be blackmailed.

So far here is what has happened.

In Libya, "bad terrorists or is it simply unspecified terrorists" had to fight their way into the US embassy, engaged in fire fight and picked a man and subjected him to unspeakable sodomy.

In Manhattan, "good cops", had to brave the cold weather and strategically fight their way in traffic, with impeccable timing had to pick a woman in front of her school kids and subject her to unspeakable barbaric attrocity. Compared to Libyans, these guys had it tough. They even had to engage an unarmed woman/mother without having to fire a single shot. And all the peanut gallery in US, casually think it is Ok, because it is Standard Operating Procedure. The failure of the people to understand and appreciate the amount of risk these brave cops have to endure is simply brushed as standard operating procedure. Only time will tell, if people will clearly understand that these acts are as tough and as risky atleast as much as the "bad terrorists" in Libya had to endure.

John Kerry comes out and mumbles some non-regret. But in state department parlance it translates "What difference does it make now?"

Few concrete blocks have been removed in New Delhi.
So, there we have it.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 19 Dec 2013 17:47

^^^^ sir I remember reading an article where D. Wood sis was not allowed to travel out of country
Though there were no pending cases against her ... The reason sited was she might not comeback and she is in touch with him .... Not sure if it is he same case here....

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Dec 2013 17:51

Devyani Khobragade treated housekeeper Sangeeta Richard well, even gave her an iPad, says sister Sharmistha

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/devy ... 31884.html

The full post:

"I know that people want to know more about the case that Devyani was arrested for.

The details that the Federal prosecutors have provided have been sketchy and one sided.

Unfortunately, Devyani is not allowed to issue a statement and tell her side of the story as the matter is sub-judice.

Her silence is leading some people to believe that she is guilty.

She is receiving hate mails from unknown, random people accusing her of 'using slave labour' and being a rich elite poster child of privilege, used to having servants to be at her beck and call, an 'exploiter' and a hypocrite for talking about women's rights.

More than the public humiliation she has been through, these accusations which attack the very core of her value system are causing her deep pain and anguish.

It is these accusations that I wish to address through this page. I am not going to go into the legal technicalities of the case against her.

I am concerned with whether she has mistreated, defrauded or exploited another human being in any way.

The answer to this is a resounding 'no'.

Here are the reasons I base my resounding 'no' on:

Devyani paid Sangeeta whatever she had promised her. A sum of Rs.30,000 was paid into Sangeeta's husband's bank account in India monthly for the period that Sangeeta was employed with her (November end 2013- June-end 2013).

In addition to this, according to the $9/hour contract, Devyani paid Sangeeta several hundred dollars each month in New York, in cash at her request.

Devyani, trusting as always, did not ask for receipts for these payments. But fortunately there are some ATM withdrawal slips and other pieces of evidence for the same.

Devyani treated Sangeeta well. Sangeeta had two large, comfortable rooms to herself in a well-appointed apartment with all modern facilities and a separate entrance.

She ate the same food as the family or whatever she wished to have.

She was given complete discretion in managing the house and was entrusted with the funds for groceries and other living expenses.

Sangeeta was allowed to pace her work out as she wished (such as cooking every three or four days rather than every day).

She was allowed to come and go as she pleased, having the house keys, metro pass, and the option to take taxis at Devyani's expense.

The children who were in her charge were attending school full time and therefore did not need constant attention at home.

They are well behaved and polite children who were very attached to Sangeeta. It would be pretty difficult to imagine how she could possibly have worked for more than 8 hours in a day.

Her passport and copies of contract documents were in her own custody and not Devyani's.

She was provided a mobile phone, had bought an iPad which she often used for Facebook, and could communicate with whoever she wished whenever she wished, in India or New York.

And yes, she had weekly offs and lots of holidays.

So no, Devyani did not cheat her or exploit her, in any way.

Did I observe the above? No. I did not visit New York while Sangeeta was there. So I know most of this from Devyani and from my father, who did visit her in the November 2012-June 2013 period, and from my friend in New York who also used to visit Devyani from time to time.

Most of the above facts were communicated to me before June 2013 (that is before Sangeeta absconded), so there is no reason to believe that they are untrue as there was no incentive for anyone to fabricate them at that time.

Now I also want to talk a little bit about how Sangeeta treated Devyani.

Devyani relied on Sangeeta a lot. Devyani's girls were aged 6 and 3 then, and were too young to be left home alone. So a housekeeper-cum-nanny was a must for her, given her peculiar circumstances and not because she is a 'poster child of privilege, used to having servants to beat her beck and call', as some crackpots are claiming.

Had that been the case, Devyani would have taken a servant each time she was posted abroad.

But she did not take a servant when she was unmarried and without children, such as in her Germany posting.

The actual fact is that Devyani is happiest when she does not have servants around. But ever since she became a working mother, this has not been an option for her.

Sangeeta left without any warning or notice, without even leaving a good-bye note for the girls who were so fond of her. This threw Devyani's life completely out of gear for some time. Devyani nevertheless told Sangeeta's husband that if Sangeeta was unhappy and did not want to work for her, she would arrange for a ticket for her to go back to India after settling her account. It was to no avail.

I was in New York when in early July 2013, Sangeeta voluntarily surfaced and summoned Devyani to a meeting in an immigration lawyer's office.

She faced Devyani across a negotiating table and made three demands which were to be complied with in return for not bringing a suit on Devyani: USD 10,000 in cash, a normal Indian passport (she was on a diplomatic passport which was revoked soon after she absconded) and immigration support.

The A3 visa that Sangeeta had come on was good only as long as she worked for Devyani. And when Devyani would eventually be transferred out of New York in two or three years' time, the visa would become invalid and Sangeeta would have to leave New York as well.

She did not want to do that. She wanted Devyani to help secure her a green card so that she could stay in the US forever.

Devyani agreed to give her the money, instantly. But she could not give her immigration support. US visa is not issued by the Indian government. At this meeting, Devyani was accompanied by other staff from the consulate, so everything in this meeting can be verified and substantiated by a third party.

The consular staff requested Sangeeta to take the money and go back to India and then to apply for an Indian passport and a normal US working visa.

Sangeeta refused. She said and I quote, 'I will not go back. Why will I go back? I know that if I go back I will never be able to come back to the US."

It is on the basis of this meeting, which is on record, that a case of extortion, blackmail and breach of trust was registered against Sangeeta in India and for which an arrest warrant has been issued by a magistrate.

So who exploited whom? Who used whom?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 19 Dec 2013 17:54

lets look at it from the result end. The end result is that the honeymoon between GOI and USG is over. The relationship is reset atleast 15 years back. The cosing up was really getting to my nerves anyways. The future in a dharmic sense looks better for India than it did last week.
India in all probability will reconsider its relationship with US in all future big moolah deals. Thats good Aint it?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 17:58

^^^ Is it? Going by the number of posts that support the US on my predominantly Indian dominated FB Timeline, I still think there are quite a few who think we are in the wrong. Many of them are young babus as well. Doesn't give me much hope. But I hope the seeds of doubt have been planted in their minds, cognitive dissonance is better than complete stocklohm syndrome.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 18:03

Devyani Khobragade only victim in diplomatic row, says MEA

The ministry of external affairs on Thursday said Devyani Khobragade, a serving Indian diplomat in the United States, was the only victim after the 39-year-old’s arrest and strip-search following a visa fraud case.

The ministry was replying to US attorney Preet Bharara’s statement questioning why there was no outrage over the alleged mistreatment of a domestic help by the diplomat.

Bharara had also claimed that the Indian diplomat was “accorded courtesies” and not handcuffed when she was arrested. There were “no courtesies” in the treatment that was meted out to the diplomat, under the normal definition of that word in the English language, the MEA shot back.

The MEA also questioned the US move to fly in domestic help Sangeeta Richard’s husband just two days before Khobragade was arrested. “It needs to be asked what right a foreign government has to evacuate Indian citizens from India while cases are pending against them in Indian legal system,” the ministry statement said.

<snip>

“This (Bharara's) statement is one more attempt at a post facto rationalisation for an action that should never have taken place in the first instance,” the MEA added, making clear India’s stern stand over the diplomatic tangle.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Dec 2013 18:05

LokeshC wrote:^^^ Is it? Going by the number of posts that support the US on my predominantly Indian dominated FB Timeline, I still think there are quite a few who think we are in the wrong. Many of them are young babus as well. Doesn't give me much hope. But I hope the seeds of doubt have been planted in their minds, cognitive dissonance is better than complete stocklohm syndrome.

And the surprising thing is more of the yuppies support US government in having their way then Indian government having to implement their law.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 18:09

4.55 pm: BJP demands US apology After protests broke out in Kolkata and Hyderabad, BJP spokesperson Ravi Sankar Prasad today declared that the United States should apologise for mistreating Devyani. "How would the US react if one of their diplomats were subjected to this treatment in India," he asked.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 18:11

3.36 pm: 'The US could have handled the issue in a more civilized manner' Commenting that the United States could have handled the Devyani Khobdagade issue in a more 'civilised manner', external affairs minister Salman Khurshid today said that, the country has an lot of explanation to do. "There are a lot of unexplained points. After a warrant issued by a magistrate's court in Delhi against the missing woman was served to the US through proper channels, they refused to act on it. And instead of arresting the domestic help, our diplomat was arrested. Not only that, her husband and son were flown to the US on a special visa," said Khurshid.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 18:13

5.10 pm: Treatment meted out to Devyani is unacceptable, says Tharoor Union minister and former diplomat Shashi Tharoor today declared that the treatment that Devyani received was unacceptable. PTI reports: Union Minister Shashi Tharoor today said if the "friendly spirit" was absent in America's conduct, it would be difficult for India to abide by the spirit here.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Dec 2013 18:13

Maid in diplomat row frustrated over portrayal of her case

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maid-in-dipl ... 515-3.html

Do read this. The content is derived from conversation with lawyers and the organization representing the maid.

Plus, it strikes me now that the plan to arrest Indian diplomat while she was in process of dropping her children to school was a well thought out one. For example, what other opportunity would the NYPD have to arrest her? If they tried doing this while she was at work, it would have meant approaching the Indian Council General and this would have led to flurry of activities by India to safeguard her. And I don't think they could have landed at her doorstep either.

Someone really wanted to arrest the diplomat and make a show of the whole thing.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 19 Dec 2013 18:23

pankajs wrote:4.55 pm: BJP demands US apology After protests broke out in Kolkata and Hyderabad, BJP spokesperson Ravi Sankar Prasad today declared that the United States should apologise for mistreating Devyani. "How would the US react if one of their diplomats were subjected to this treatment in India," he asked.

Given the perverts they are, they probably would have enjoyed it -- the cavity search part.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 19 Dec 2013 18:27

rohitvats wrote: Someone really wanted to arrest the diplomat and make a show of the whole thing.

That sounds sending a very "personal" message. Did she really botch a CIA operation that badly?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 18:35

rohitvatsji:

Thats why I am now thinking it was an act of a few zealous (and dubious) activists who are hell bent on making the latest stereotype-fad stick for the mighty-whitey civilized man to fight the savages on: "slavery" and "trafficking".

TSJones was cued in on this 100% even before the full details were available, which means Indian drain-inspectors and other interested folks (like TSJ) already are aware of what the "fight to civilize" was about.

Read any amru newspaper on just about anything in India now: You will see a couple of "well meaning" joe six pack ignoramus commenting on "slavery" "domestic abuse" and "rape" in India where every one is out to rape everyone else.

I call these activists lawyers with Richard's dubious because they tried to settle out of court initially, which does not indicate a principled stand, but rather an opportunistic stand. That failed and they went for a complaint indicating willful criminal intent on behalf of DK (where there was none). Once the case turned criminal we have our own self-hating bunch and a highly racist NYPD to take it to stratospheric heights.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Dec 2013 18:42

India tears into US attorney's statement in Devyani case

vic · Post by **vic** » 19 Dec 2013 18:49

Who is footing the bill of the maid and her family for last 7 months? It should cost around USD 10,000 atleast.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 18:54

SHAT (activist lawyer org) would have provided her something (they get $$$ from charity... possibly EJ n/w ). Now she might be eating public US taxpayer money in vitness protection

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Dec 2013 18:54

Tick tock, tick tock.

Seven days since she was arrested and GoI has done nothing of substance except talk.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2013 19:02

Tick tock tick tock only a == arrest here will bring this to a even keel.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 19 Dec 2013 19:06

merlin wrote:Tick tock, tick tock.

Seven days since she was arrested and GoI has done nothing of substance except talk.

Yeah, all they have done is sound and fury signifying nothing. Kerrorist has expressed regret over the events after the arrest. One would be amused to listen to US explanation of what it means. I presume he meant events after arrest i.e. five actions taken by Congis in Delhi.
And reciprocity in Diplomatic relation is what Congis don't under stand. GUBO is what they are going to do if trickling of news coming on channels now is any indicative. Damage control is the name of new game in the town.

On the other hand I suspect that Congis were in full know and had planned this episode in collusion with USG to make things difficult for NaMo when he takes over. Afterall right from top to bottom of congis are full of treachery.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 19:19

venug wrote:India tears into US attorney's statement in Devyani case

“The statement in question acknowledges that legal processes were in place in India. Yet, incredibly, it invites speculation about why it was necessary to evacuate the family of Ms Richards and about the action purportedly being taken against them. The implication of this remarkable admission needs to be considered very carefully with regard to the implicit comment it makes about the Indian legal system, Indian law enforcement authorities, and the responsibility that legal officials of a foreign government seem to arrogate upon themselves with regard to the nationals of another country. It needs to be asked what right a foreign government has to "evacuate" Indian citizens from India while cases are pending against them in the Indian legal system.

“The statement underlines the compulsion that is felt by the Manhattan US attorney's office "to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families are safe and secure while cases are pending."

“This is precisely why, when there is a prior legal process already underway in India, the Manhattan US attorney should consider it obligatory to enable justice to take its course in India in the first instance. When the legal process in another friendly and democratic country is interfered with in this manner, it not only amounts to interference but also raises the serious concern of calling into question the very legal system of that country.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 19 Dec 2013 19:19

Why is there Khujaliwal's thunderous silence on Devayani episode?? He harbours national ambition and has 18 point solutions to all problems. He and none of his (p)AAP members/MLAs have spoken about this.Is this not serious enough issue to comment upon at least. I suspect that since he is funded by USA via CIA managed Ford Foundation etc that is why he is under compulsion to remain silent.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 19:20

6.44 pm: Anti-US protests reach Kolkata The outrage over the maltreatment of Devyani Khobdagade in the hands of the US authorities reached Kolkata today afternoon. IANS reports: Several hundred students of the Democratic Youth Federation of India (DYFI) and Students' Federation of India (SFI) demanded that barricades outside the US consulate in the city be removed, as was done in New Delhi.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Dec 2013 19:31

yet another dossier-gate on our hands. GOI will make a lot of sound and do nothing in the end.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 19:34

That should provide Modi enough ammo to lambast munna/pappu party. So be it ..

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 19 Dec 2013 19:40

Someone mentioned few pages back that manoji to sack smm and give to papu ..well this could be best way to project him as the massiha of people anyway mms has lost his credibility..may be cogi might push for this...lov to see namo tearing papu once he is officially given the seat...

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 19:42

OT here:
Politically speaking (internal matter and OT here): She is a Dalit and our leaders should be cognizant of the fact that the modesty of a dalit has been outraged in the most dehumanizing way possible. They have to do something more than dossiers in this case.

The maid is an christian and has an christian name, this also proves that for the US folks Christian > Dalit.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Dec 2013 19:45

India instructs Bureau of Civial Aviation Security (BCAS) not to extend any special privilege to US diplomats/consuls in any Indian airport.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 19:48

Next step should be take back extra parking provided to the US consulates by removing the concrete road blocks.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Dec 2013 19:48

Having read through the reports and the confused GOI responses. I will make a declaration on this thread. This too shall be swept under the rug, with the Diplomat having to fight for justice on her own. She may even be sidelined by a future Indian dispensation, if she persists in seeking justice for the indignity she had to suffer.

While her tormenter enjoys the good life.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 19 Dec 2013 19:51

BSP seems to be cashing in on the Dalit scheme here. The No-Confidence Motion seems to be gaining traction.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 19 Dec 2013 19:56

Pratyush wrote:Having read through the reports and the confused GOI responses. I will make a declaration on this thread. This too shall be swept under the rug, with the Diplomat having to fight for justice on her own. She may even be sidelined by a future Indian dispensation, if she persists in seeking justice for the indignity she had to suffer.

While her tormenter enjoys the good life.

+ 1

...I believe most of the members will be thinking the same..its only matter of time...may extend issue the statements for another 1 week...one apology will bring back all the privileges which are denied now to the US diplomats...or one call on Jan 1st from BO to smm will bring everything to normal...

I give them max 1 month..the deadline is Jan - 10th...

I hope we are proved wrong atleast for election reason GoI should act ..this is their last chance ....

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Dec 2013 19:57

I have been reading reaction to the incident in the Indian Media. makes me sick to see the level of ignorance and self hate, amongst the people who are justifying the detention and humiliation of Indian diplomat.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 19:58

Altair wrote:BSP seems to be cashing in on the Dalit scheme here. The No-Confidence Motion seems to be gaining traction.

It is also why manuvadi anti-indic debate has been kept out on Indian channels at least.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 19 Dec 2013 20:04

^^RahulM. Absolutely. Lot of sound and fury, and non-actions. But in reality absolutely no action at all. Hasn't this been the way of GOI, on all assaults on Indian interests and institutions. This is not only with the great US of A, but even with piddly Pakistan we behave this way.

For those of you, who are still expecting a concrete response from GOI, just want to point out that even 26/11 did not force the government to take action. GOI appears to be totally scared of taking any action to assert our interests, even when the public is fully behind it.

We need a newer breed of politicians. Just like the change in mindset within our cricket team, we need a newer generation of fearless politicians who are audacious enough to dream for our country and take it to newer heights. We need a Sachin Tendulkar in Politics.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 20:04

Pratyush wrote:I have been reading reaction to the incident in the Indian Media. makes me sick to see the level of ignorance and self hate, amongst the people who are justifying the detention and humiliation of Indian diplomat.

Sir that is also a function of the way our babus handle information. Even to say that the "only victim is Devyani" took them so long. Our babus think that was a state secret and needed 1000 approvals before release. We gave the US side enough time to build and control the narrative about exploitation. In this age with yuppie attention span being minutes that was our biggest mistake.

Our side of the story with the timelines that was released today should have been out within 24 hrs of the arrest.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 20:22

munna upset with massa
------------------------->>
8.15 pm: Angry PM seeks quick resolution Upset over the treatment meted out to Deputy Consul General Devyani Khobragade in New York, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has directed External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid and National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon to ensure "full resolution" of the issue. Singh had on Thursday termed as "deplorable" the treatment that the 39-year-old diplomat had been subjected to. The government had asserted in Parliament earlier that it will take strong steps to ensure the return of the diplomat and ensure restoration of her dignity.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article