The IAF History Thread

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 13 Nov 2009 07:05

rahulm wrote:Its serial number 906. Could not get pictures today as there was a gang painting the static display.

Thanks rahul. Must be IF906. Also , can you manage a photo of a MiG-21U that is somewhere to the back of the sudan block?

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 13 Nov 2009 07:39

IF 906 it is.Will shoot this bird shortly.

Was at the back of Sudan block for a while but must have missed the 21. Will try and spot it next time.

Got some pictures of the Mig 25 at Gol market but you already have photos of this bird.

Also, am likely to be In Hyd in the next 6-8 weeks if you are still based there.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 13 Nov 2009 10:17

sorry rahul, not in hyd. but on us east coast. let me know if passing through.

the Mig is here http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 3&t=h&z=18

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 13 Nov 2009 20:39

Jagan, no worries and appreciate the invite.

Thank you for the google map. Its somewhat along side Smaran Kutir and I don't think its visible from the road.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 14 Nov 2009 10:19

Mig 25R Serial number KP351 on static display at the NDA Gol market

This one took part in Kargil and Parakram.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 14 Nov 2009 15:02

Some trivia.

Occassions when India utilised civilian airlines in wartime?

1) 1947/48 Air Bridge to Srinagar
2) 1950s-1960s Kalinga Airways operations in North East
3) 1987 Deployment of IPKF to Sri Lanka

Any other operation? Note in 1962 we did not utilie airlines for mobilisation, albeit a late decision was taken it could not be implemented in time. Aside from witholding IAF from offensive operations this was another poor decision on our side.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 14 Nov 2009 22:41

rahulm wrote:Mig 25R Serial number KP351 on static display at the NDA Gol market

This one took part in Kargil and Parakram.

rahul,

not pushing my luck. but can you stroll over to the paradeground and get me the tail number off the MiG-21 and Sea hawk?

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 16 Nov 2009 08:06

Will try. This particular request can't be actioned casually. I need to organise an escort as marching on the parade ground will attract attention.

Probably sometime in late December.

Here's a heads up, MIG 23 serial number BM 273 is being moved from Lohegaon AFB to be on static display at the National War Memorial, Southern command, Pune (from today's IE. There is a picture if it being towed on the road)

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 16 Nov 2009 08:23

rahulm wrote:Will try. This particular request can't be actioned casually. I need to organise an escort as marching on the parade ground will attract attention.
)

Thanks man, fully understand the headaches that you may invite for this.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Nov 2009 02:18

http://www.ritanabooks.com/

Images of Splendour – Institutions of the Indian Air Force is a marvellous pictorial presentation of the fascinating world of Indian Air Force.
The book begins with a brief history of IAF. Various units dealing with selection of officers and airmen come next. The book then makes way into the glorious citadels of training in IAF where Air Force Academy , Air Force Technical College and other major institutions are highlighted in their true splendour. The subsequent section enumerates Air Headquarters and the Seven IAF Commands. The book concludes with the medical and welfare establishments in IAF.
The book has been crafted after painstaking research and design. This book also includes a flowing history of IAF aircraft from the first Wapiti to the latest IL-78. This is a delightful depiction of the rich legacy of the Institutions of the Indian Air force and is indeed a very special book.

Contests: Foreword by Chief of the Air force Prologue The Magnificent Men behind the Machines Preparing for Wars Pillars of a future Force Keeping Pace with Changing Technology Maintenance and Supply Command and Control Medical Establishments Welfare in the IAF Aircraft of IAF from Inception to date Glossary.
Specifications: ISBN 81-85250-34-0 Publication Date: January 2004 size:368 mm x 266 mm Pagination 152 Binding Deluxe Hardback with Slipcase Full Colour throughout over 400 photos and illustrations UV Coating throughout

PRITHVI SE ANTARIKSH : GLIMPSES OF WESTERN AIR COMMAND is the first ever comprehensive history, in a coffee table format of Western Air Command (WAC), the premier operational command of the world’s fourth largest Air Force-the Indian Air Force. The command is the largest and senior most command of the IAF and enjoys an asset strength even greater than that of the entire PAF. The WAC is entrusted with the most challenging and onerous task of the IAF-that of defending the skies of India from the majestic Hindu Kush in the north to the desert wastelands of the Thar. Forged in battle, from the struggle to save Kashmir in 1947-48 the air warriors of WAC have had the honour to have served their country in every battle since. In a sense therefore, the history of the WAC is really the history of the IAF’s formative years.
This book for the first time details the magnificent history of the IAF through the eyes of WAC. The battles of J&K, the years of resurgence, the 1962 Chinese invasion, the spectacular wins of September 1965,
more...

Specifications: ISBN 81-85250-39-1 Publication Date: January 2007 size:368 mm x 266 mm Pagination 188 Binding Deluxe Hardback with Slipcase Full Colour throughout over 350 photos and illustrations World Rights.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Nov 2009 02:23

rahulm wrote:Mig 25R Serial number KP351 on static display at the NDA Gol market

This one took part in Kargil and Parakram.

How is the area around the twin engine exhausts so nice and smooth?

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Nov 2009 06:30

Engines have been removed; note the otherwise visible nozzle petals are missing.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 22 Nov 2009 08:17

Aditya G wrote:http://www.ritanabooks.com/

Images of Splendour – Institutions of the Indian Air Force is a marvellous pictorial presentation of the fascinating world of Indian Air Force.

PRITHVI SE ANTARIKSH : GLIMPSES OF WESTERN AIR COMMAND is the first ever comprehensive history, in a coffee table format of Western Air Command (WAC), the premier operational command of the world’s fourth largest Air Force-the Indian

I have both these books - Coffee Table publications with good raw info (Depending on what you are looking for). Disappointing on the quality and selection of pictures, photoshopped images. The amount of info also varies - some aspects are well described, while others are less so.

The institutions is good in identifying various training institutions, their crests, some of their history. but the quality of information varies. even the quality of crests varies. the western command book is good for orbat lovers. information on each base, each air force station etc. but again the selection of pictures and the scope of information varies from item to item.

Both books are Very expensive (not for the common public - only for obsessive collectors). add shipping to it!

Raja, negi got it right. The airframe is an empty shell - no engines inside (Ditto with the bird in IAF Museum - you can stand in front and see straight through to the back when the covers were removed!)

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Nov 2009 09:14

I was kinda wondering the same. negi, good observation.

I need to visit IAF museum next time I am in India - it seems their collection has changed a lot since the last time I was there

Where is the MiG 25 kept? Is it in the outside area with the Liberator, Mi-4, Sabre junk etc. or is it inside the hangar with most of the other IAF birds?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 22 Nov 2009 23:43

Raja Bose wrote:I was kinda wondering the same. negi, good observation.

I need to visit IAF museum next time I am in India - it seems their collection has changed a lot since the last time I was there Where is the MiG 25 kept? Is it in the outside area with the Liberator, Mi-4, Sabre junk etc. or is it inside the hangar with most of the other IAF birds?

In the outside area - they opened up the second outside areas where the large transports are - you can find the An-12, packet, Tu-124, Iskras, MiG-25 and MiG-23MF in this area.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Nov 2009 00:17

^^^ AoA indeed!

Earlier the large transports/giants area would be off-limits and would only be opened on occasions like AF day.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Nov 2009 23:41

One of the most popular "urban legends" I have heard is that "Israel approached Morarji Desai to attack Kahuta nuclear facility but he refused access to Indian bases" ... urban legend or should we say 'no smoke without fire'?

But who was the first to publish this? A recent book did trigger off some news but I have first heard this almost 10 years back.

http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis ... 17169.html

Kahuta attack report fictional: IAF

November 05, 2007

The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Oct 29 described as "fictional" a suggestion that India and Israel had planned to attack Pakistan's nuclear facility at Kahuta from the Jamnagar airbase in Gujarat.

Investigative journalists Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark have made the claim in their book titled "Deception: Pakistan, the US and the Global Weapons Conspiracy".

Speaking on condition of anonymity, an IAF officer said: "It's entirely fictional."

The book claims that the supposed 1983-84 strike got spiked when the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) tipped off then Pakistani military dictator Zia-ul Haq of the plan.

"In February 1983, with the strike plan at an advanced stage, Indian military officials had travelled secretly to Israel, which had a common interest in eliminating (Dr A.Q.) Khan (who mentored Pakistan's nuclear programme)," said the book.

According to it, India put its plans on hold after a Pakistani official warned an Indian nuclear scientist that Islamabad would attack Trombay near Mumbai if Kahuta got hit.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/ ... _1984.html

...

Israel reportedly broaches India on plans to strike Pakistan's uranium enrichment plant at Kahuta. According to the Israeli proposal, the strike against Kahuta would be conducted using Israeli combat aircraft, with logistical help from India. As a first step, Israeli warplanes would use the Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Jamnagar close to the Kutch coast, from where they would fly off to refuel at a satellite airfield somewhere in northern India. In the final stage, the planes would fly on the lee side of the Himalayas to avoid early radar detection before penetrating Pakistani airspace, thus giving the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) little time to react. Prime Minister Indira Gandhi initially agrees to the plan. But she later vetoes it after being warned of the potential for negative reactions from the United States.
—Bharat Karnad, "Hesitant Nuclear Realpolitik: 1966-To Date," Nuclear Weapons and Indian Security: The Realist Foundations of Strategy (New Delhi: Macmillan, 2002), pp. 349-350.

...

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=73205

India, Israel planned to hit Kahuta in early ‘80s
Oct. 28, 2007

NEW DELHI (APP): India and Israel had secretly planned to hit Pakistan’s nuclear facility in Kahuta near Islamabad in 1983-84, but backed off when the CIA in 1984 tipped off then President General Zia-ul Haq.

“The Asian Age” reported this in its report published on Sunday from London quoting details revealed by investigative journalists Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark in their new book, Deception: Pakistan, the United States and the Global Weapons Conspiracy.

The authors also revealed details about India’s secret intelligence links with Israel at the time when officially the two countries did not have any diplomatic contacts. “In February 1983, with the strike plan at an advanced stage, Indian military officials had travelled secretly to Israel, which had a common interest in eliminating (A.Q.) Khan, to buy electronic warfare equipment to neutralise Kahuta’s air defences,” the book said.

Indian put its plans on hold after Raja Ramanna, then director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, was warned by the then Chairman of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission Munir Ahmed Khan in Vienna in the autumn of 1983 that Islamabad would attack Trombay, if its facilities in Kahuta were attacked.

At this juncture, the book said, Israel suggested that they would carry out the raid on Kahuta using the Indian Jamnagar base in Gujarat to launch its jets and another IAF base in northern India to refuel. “In March 1984, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi signed off (on) the Israeli-led operation, bringing India, Pakistan and Israel to within a hair’s breadth of a nuclear conflagration.”

However, the authors said India and Israel backed off from the plan after the CIA tipped off President Zia ul Haq and the US state department warned India that “the US will be responsive if India persists.”

The book further said Prime Minister Indira Gandhi then aborted the operation despite protests from military planners in New Delhi and Jerusalem. The authors quoting Gen. K.M. Arif, who was at the time Vice Chief of Pakistan Army as saying: “Our friends had let us know what the Israelis and Indians intended to do, and so we let them know how we would respond. Both sides were harrying the other and were absolutely aware of the consequences of every move. In the end, it was India that blinked.”

Associated Press of Pakistan

Pakistan’s Nuclear Posture: Security & Survivability
http://www.npec-web.org/Presentations/LavoySlides.pdf

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Nov 2009 01:20

^^^Apart from the 'non-state' actors, Pakistan did not have anything in its inventory to hit Trombay in the period mentioned. And coming after an IAF/Israel AF strike, the whole machinery would have been on high alert.So how the pukes would have sneaked in is anyones guess.

IIRC, there was some other mention of PAF being ready with pilots in their F-16 cockpits to take out Trombay and Bombay-High during some other stand-off. I remeber seeing an interview of C.Uday Bhaskar stating that unless the PAF strike elements were on a suicide mission, there was no way they were going to accomplish this.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Nov 2009 09:13

IIRC, there was some other mention of PAF being ready with pilots in their F-16 cockpits to take out Trombay and Bombay-High during some other stand-off.

late 80's. VP singh/botox bebe era. apparently the amir khanis detected from sat images PAF F-16's at sargodha (?) all dressed up and a nuke convoy headed there. opinions differed in US establishment whether they were actually preparing for a strike or bluffing. some thought TSP was using blackmail to get more arms.
deputy NSA threw cold water on all that bravado by saying to then paki prez ghulam ishaq khan that even if TSP used nukes there was no way they could win the war.

added later : that deputy NSA is none other than current def sec robert gates.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 29 Nov 2009 09:20

How about Pakistan Navy Atlantic or P-3 Orions? Unfortunately a quick search does not reveal when these aircraft were inducted. These aircraft have a sufficient range and were Harpoon and Exocets. An extreme option would be send C-130 on bombing mission.

If this incident is at all true, then it is sad that we have bowed to false propaganda. Sadly in 1984 our flagship fighter was MiG-23MF

Another aspect to Kahuta story is that in the 1980s RAW had recovered the plans for the site. This could be a reason for insecurity amongst Pakistani establishment.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Nov 2009 09:24

C-130 was prepared as a candidate for a free fall bomb carrier. by late 80's they had the M-11's.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Nov 2009 13:59

Raja Bose wrote:^^^ AoA indeed! Earlier the large transports/giants area would be off-limits and would only be opened on occasions like AF day.

Bose-ji,
Where exactly is the air museum? Will sneek in a peek of the museum if im in that part of the country next time.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Nov 2009 14:12

With the presence of AD net out of Jamnagar and Daman & Diu, any strike will have to go that mucj out in the Arabian Sea. Also, the presence of Pune AFB and atendand fighter cover, Mig-29 at that, would have meant sooside for any PAF Strike element. P-3 is completely out of question. A slow moving aircraft like that will never be able to get past the AD net.

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 29 Nov 2009 17:52

Does any one have a status update on No 35 Sqn "The Rapiers"? Last I had heard of them was that they were number plated.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 30 Nov 2009 02:17

rohitvats wrote:With the presence of AD net out of Jamnagar and Daman & Diu, any strike will have to go that mucj out in the Arabian Sea. Also, the presence of Pune AFB and atendand fighter cover, Mig-29 at that, would have meant sooside for any PAF Strike element. P-3 is completely out of question. A slow moving aircraft like that will never be able to get past the AD net.

Just a nitpick, but if the time period being talked about is the "early" 80's, we did not have Mig-29s at the time. While you are right in saying that a slow moving P-3 would not have stood a chance, I'm not so sure about PAF fighters. All they would have needed is one lucky shot on the reactor JMHO. I've no idea what aircraft operated out of Pune AFB at the time.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2009 02:33

sum wrote: Bose-ji,
Where exactly is the air museum? Will sneek in a peek of the museum if im in that part of the country next time.

At the IAF base in Palam, New Delhi - the entrance is on one of the back roads which go to Palam Gaon (village).

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Nov 2009 10:57

Just a nitpick, but if the time period being talked about is the "early" 80's, we did not have Mig-29s at the time. While you are right in saying that a slow moving P-3 would not have stood a chance, I'm not so sure about PAF fighters. All they would have needed is one lucky shot on the reactor JMHO. I've no idea what aircraft operated out of Pune AFB at the time.

The post above was about the supposed threat in late 80s as pointed by Rahul M above. As for the early 80's, our freinds also did not have anything to hit Trombay at that time. And the problem with the PAF attack theory is with respect to range and presence of AD net consisting of Fighters and SAM/L-70 mix.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2009 12:32

Posting a sketch (pencil on paper, 9" W x 12" H) of Wg. Cdr. Kukke Suresh:

It was not scanned but photographed hence, some weird bluish hues on his socks which are not there in the original.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 30 Nov 2009 17:43

wow, thats a cool drawing.

how long did it take?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Nov 2009 22:51

rohitvats wrote:
Just a nitpick, but if the time period being talked about is the "early" 80's, we did not have Mig-29s at the time. While you are right in saying that a slow moving P-3 would not have stood a chance, I'm not so sure about PAF fighters. All they would have needed is one lucky shot on the reactor JMHO. I've no idea what aircraft operated out of Pune AFB at the time.
The post above was about the supposed threat in late 80s as pointed by Rahul M above. As for the early 80's, our freinds also did not have anything to hit Trombay at that time. And the problem with the PAF attack theory is with respect to range and presence of AD net consisting of Fighters and SAM/L-70 mix.

For PAF to attack Bombay was never difficult since they acquired Mirage-III - well before 1971. Lets not consider our own defences to be invincible, for Pakistan to have issued a private threat would have required prior analysis. IAF would also prepare accordingly and advise the Indian govt on the weight of Pakistani claim.

Per wikipedia the range of Mirage-5 is

Code: Select all

Combat radius: 1,250 km (675 nmi, 777 mi) hi-lo-hi profile, payload two 400 kg bomb and max external fuel

Guess thats a lot more than Karachi - Bombay:

Such a configuration would have been imminently suitable to attack Trombay, with its tall dome:

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Dec 2009 00:35

For PAF to attack Bombay was never difficult since they acquired Mirage-III - well before 1971. Lets not consider our own defences to be invincible, for Pakistan to have issued a private threat would have required prior analysis. IAF would also prepare accordingly and advise the Indian govt on the weight of Pakistani claim.

You've reached a conclusion that I did not imply. But lets leave at that.

The straight line that you've drawn between Karachi and Mumbai, runs at less than <50kms from Naliya AFB and less than <90kms from Jamnagar and Bhuj AFB. I hope you took at into account before taking about the Mirage-V Range.And not to forget the Lohegaon AFB in Pune.

So, if the venerable Mirage-V has to hit Trombay, it will have to fly far out into the sea. And what will that do to the range of the a/c? Hypothetically speaking, if it goes low in the ingress route to avoid the AD net, what happens to range then? And what about the egress?With every asset of IAF on alert, what happens to PAF strike package?

The Israel AF flew 1600kms one way in their 8 F-16s laden with max fuel and two 2,000 pound Mk 84 unguided/dumb bombs each to take out the Osirak Reactior in Iraq. The same were provided cover by 6 F-15s. Now, that is the level of force and load out we're talking about which the PAF would not have been able to deploy with their Mirage-V. Is it a coincidence that Mig-29 came to based and retained in Pune when PAF had the F-16 in inventory(post induction in 1983)?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 01 Dec 2009 00:38

For PAF to attack Bombay was never difficult since they acquired Mirage-III - well before 1971. Lets not consider our own defences to be invincible, for Pakistan to have issued a private threat would have required prior analysis. IAF would also prepare accordingly and advise the Indian govt on the weight of Pakistani claim.

You've reached a conclusion that I did not imply. But lets leave at that.

The straight line that you've drawn between Karachi and Mumbai, runs at less than <50kms from Naliya AFB and less than <90kms from Jamnagar and Bhuj AFB. I hope you took at into account before taking about the Mirage-V Range.And not to forget the Lohegaon AFB in Pune.

So, if the venerable Mirage-V has to hit Trombay, it will have to fly far out into the sea. And what will that do to the range of the a/c? Hypothetically speaking, if it goes low in the ingress route to avoid the AD net, what happens to range then? And what about the egress?With every asset of IAF on alert, what happens to PAF strike package?The whole package would have been on razor thin margin.

The Israel AF flew 1600kms one way in their 8 F-16s laden with max fuel and two 2,000 pound Mk 84 unguided/dumb bombs each to take out the Osirak Reactior in Iraq. The same were provided cover by 6 F-15s. Now, that is the level of force and load out we're talking about which the PAF would not have been able to deploy with their Mirage-V. Is it a coincidence that Mig-29 came to based and retained in Pune when PAF had the F-16 in inventory(post induction in 1983)?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Dec 2009 04:19

Jagan wrote:wow, thats a cool drawing.

how long did it take?

It took about a couple of hours - some artistic license was used though

If you want to put it in the B-R IAF site, I can always scan it for you. Basically I saw that there were tons of paintings of aircraft but none of the air warriors so decided to base the subject of the first sketch on one of the best examples I knew of.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Dec 2009 04:37

rohitvats wrote:The straight line that you've drawn between Karachi and Mumbai, runs at less than <50kms from Naliya AFB and less than <90kms from Jamnagar and Bhuj AFB. I hope you took at into account before taking about the Mirage-V Range.And not to forget the Lohegaon AFB in Pune.

So, if the venerable Mirage-V has to hit Trombay, it will have to fly far out into the sea. And what will that do to the range of the a/c? Hypothetically speaking, if it goes low in the ingress route to avoid the AD net, what happens to range then? And what about the egress?With every asset of IAF on alert, what happens to PAF strike package?The whole package would have been on razor thin margin.
ence that Mig-29 came to based and retained in Pune when PAF had the F-16 in inventory(post induction in 1983)?

Well put. Add to that the AD defences - AA guns at trombay and the SAM Squadron at Thane. It is not necessary to shoot down the enemy aircraft, as long as you make them miss the target or abandon a strike - the defender's objective is achieved. moreover, the mission would probably have to be flown lo-lo-lo all the way. till you get back to your own territory. climbing up during day time makes you an easier target for interceptors and SAMs.

In 71, the deepest they ever came during daylight was Halwara airfield. Bombing accuracy on both sides on non-runway targets isnt much to speak about anyway.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Dec 2009 05:01

Raja Bose wrote:Posting a sketch (pencil on paper, 9" W x 12" H) of Wg. Cdr. Kukke Suresh:
.

Gosh - you have a rare skill. Very nice!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Dec 2009 05:06

Aditya G wrote:
For PAF to attack Bombay was never difficult since they acquired Mirage-III - well before 1971.

I am currently reading (for the purpose of review) a book by Air Cmdr Sajad Haider of the PAF, He led from the front in 1965 and 1971. He writes that the PAF was unable to provide air cover for the ops in Longewala because they lacked the range.And yes they had Mirage IIis back then which he flew. That does not gel in with your statement about ability to attack Trombay.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Dec 2009 07:09

they had only a handful of mirages during the war, probably no more than a dozen. they didn't have any to spare.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Dec 2009 07:57

Rahul M wrote:they had only a handful of mirages during the war, probably no more than a dozen. they didn't have any to spare.

They had 24.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Dec 2009 08:44

Gentlemen, the points you make are valid. However, seen in context, the threat to bomb Trombay is similar to a threat to launch a nuclear strike itself - it is highly unlikely, will occur only in case of all out war and requires great planning and force level from the attacker.

One can also argue that it is impossible for PAF to launch a conventional strike on say, Delhi or Agra. But thats not the point, the 'war game' shown is just to show that such an attack was possible by Pakistan if they had the wherewithal and something that could not have been dismissed by Indian planners. To make it impossible, India had to dedicate resources to counter like, like basing MiG-29s at Pune as Rohit suggested. Whether PAF had the force levels to launch this attack, and whether they could have taken the losses from air defences is the next question.

For records I believe the deepest ever strike by PAF was attack on Agra, which a 750 km as crow flies is however much less than Karachi Bombay distance. In 1984 the PAF was still flying B-57s

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Dec 2009 08:54

shiv wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:Posting a sketch (pencil on paper, 9" W x 12" H) of Wg. Cdr. Kukke Suresh:
.
Gosh - you have a rare skill. Very nice!

If you wish I can always send it to you via snail mail as long as you promise to send back a pic of it in your home (hopefully co-located with his other memorablia) for my records.