Raja Ram wrote:
......
......
Behind the scenes the real intent is played out. In a telling series of messages in the last couple of days, the paki elite in PA and ISI have sent out the following messages:
1. Obama & Co:
.....
.....
Raja Ram garu, looks like some more people hold similar views and believe in 'The Message'
WITH three Afghan government ministries in Kabul hit by simultaneous suicide attacks this week, by a total of just eight terrorists, it seems that a new “Mumbai model” of swarming, smaller-scale terrorist violence is emerging.
Yes, the swarm will be heading our way, too. We need to get smaller, closer and quicker. The sooner the better.
John Arquilla teaches in the special operations program at the Naval Postgraduate School and is the author of “Worst Enemy: The Reluctant Transformation of the American Military.”
I was just wondering if this could be the beginning of the disintegration of the Al Qaeda ideology and support. Then again, could Zawahiri and Bin laden dismiss it as something written under coercion?
The Al Fadl book is a beautiful move by the Egyptians, who are not by any means wanting in methods and tactics in combating the Qaida types... No doubt done with full knowledge of interested parties... This is really a kick in the nuts... The book may go a long way in bringing the rats out into the open...
I was just wondering if this could be the beginning of the disintegration of the Al Qaeda ideology and support. Then again, could Zawahiri and Bin laden dismiss it as something written under coercion?
It does not matter. The mind games have started and as long as there is life in these yahoos let them spend time rebutting each other and confusing the masses. I would love to see a Caliphate that counters The Caliphate - an anti-Caliphate!!
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 22 Feb 2009 00:06
by Rush
I would love to see a Caliphate that counters The Caliphate - an anti-Caliphate!!
NRao.. aren't we the infidels believed to be anti-Caliphate? Or did you mean a counter force that was Islamic in origin?
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 22 Feb 2009 18:08
by shyamd
JE Menon wrote:The Al Fadl book is a beautiful move by the Egyptians, who are not by any means wanting in methods and tactics in combating the Qaida types... No doubt done with full knowledge of interested parties... This is really a kick in the nuts... The book may go a long way in bringing the rats out into the open...
Whats the name of the book?
Is it: The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists by Abou El Khaled Fadl (Paperback - 1 Mar 2007)?
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 22 Feb 2009 21:05
by JE Menon
Don't think that is the right Dr. Fadl...
They are talking about a document by the guy (not a "book" as such), it seems. And it does not seem to be something very current... Wierd that the Telegraph is reporting it now as something new... I thought it was anyway, they way they reported it... But it seems not... check this out:
Question:What is India's vision of the security situation in Afghanistan? What are the one, two, threes of it?
The 1-2-3 of it are simple and obvious. The Afghan national security forces themselves should be strengthened and empowered and equipped to handle the security of the Afghan people. That is the first thing to do.
Post-2001, for the first five years, some imagined that security could be sub-contracted to foreigners and that Afghanistan did not need a proper army.
Number two: As the Afghan government itself says, the war against terrorism in Afghanistan cannot be addressed without addressing the question of safe havens and sanctuaries and training camps that support and sustain the terrorist groups.
And number three: Don't ever compromise with terrorists and their organisations.
Question:That means India will not like a Swat-type solution. Why can't it happen in Afghanistan with a faction of the Taliban?
It could happen. But with individuals and factions that have given up the ideology of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. With those that are ready to come overground, lay down their arms and embrace the democratic system. With those that choose to be wedded to the constitution. With those who respect diversity, pluralism, women and human rights.
If nato did a little diligent study of Afghanistan before jumping in, they would have not faced a situation of running their ar** out of Afghanistan like a defeated mice. A more recent history of Soviet demise in Afghanistan should have been enough of a indicator about the harshness of Afghanistan fight. If they run away like mice, their credibility will be watered down and Eastern European bloc will definately feel moving away from a spent force.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 28 Feb 2009 07:29
by Sanjay M
It's the British Invasion all over again! Ah, the memories!
Yes, it's those plucky young lads from Liverpool, Leicester, Yorkshire, etc with their radical dressing styles, drawing screaming crowds of fanatical youth. Her Majesty will have to knight them eventually, in recognition of their immense contribution to British vote banks.
Yes, it's those plucky young lads from Liverpool, Leicester, Yorkshire, etc with their radical dressing styles, drawing screaming crowds of fanatical youth. Her Majesty will have to knight them eventually, in recognition of their immense contribution to British vote banks.
The 'Slumdog soldiers' of UK are not of the same mettle as that of the Imperial days.
However, to imagine that the ISAF is losing out, it is a trifle premature.
If one compares the way Kashmir is protected from the barbaric hordes, it will be realised that the quantum of troops on ground who are actually taking on the Taliban is a drop in the ocean. To successfully contest the Taliban, the ISAF has to have a three tier defence.
seal the border (though borders cannot really be sealed). fight the Taliban within the country and sanitise the cities. Require a huge number of troops.
The US and ISAF doe snot have the numbers.
Therefore, ideal manner to employ the number of troops available for optimum gains and respite is to take the 'war' to the source. Go for areas from where the Taliban is recruited, nurtured and launched i.e. the sanctuaries in Pakistan.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 28 Feb 2009 12:41
by anjali
Western officials, Taliban engaged in secret talks
KABUL, Afghanistan, Feb. 27 (UPI) -- Secret negotiations are reportedly under way to allow the head of an organization fighting alongside the Taliban to return to Afghanistan, news sources say.
Gulbaldin Hekmatyar, who has been in hiding for seven years, would be given immunity from prosecution and allowed to go back his country, al-Jazeera reported Friday.
The news organization says Hekmatyar's return is being discussed by the Afghan government, Western officials and mediators linked to the Taliban.
Mullah Mottawakil, a former Taliban foreign minister, says the talks will fail if the plan is to split the Taliban.
"It will not benefit anyone if he (Afghan President Hamid Karzai) brings one part of the Taliban into the government, and leaves the other part behind," said Mottawakil. "It will not finish the war."
Hekmatyar's organization, Hezb-i-Islami, fights alongside the Taliban. It has been designated a terrorist organization by the U.S. government.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 04 Mar 2009 06:03
by shyamd
First NATO supplies have come through Russia today.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 04 Mar 2009 06:06
by svinayak
shyamd wrote:First NATO supplies have come through Russia today.
What is the supply route.
Can you get it in the map
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 04 Mar 2009 06:15
by shyamd
Closest I could find:
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 04 Mar 2009 20:52
by Lalmohan
RayC wrote:
The 'Slumdog soldiers' of UK are not of the same mettle as that of the Imperial days.
gives you an insight into the operations and the soldiers and the conditions they are dealing with
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 06 Mar 2009 15:40
by Lalmohan
this is an interesting aside... the same scottish troops on their return to glasgow are given a rapturous reception at the Ibrox stadium ahead of a football match
you can gauge from the crowd's reception what they think of the troops being in Afghanistan, and also by extrapolation what they really think of the Islamists amidst them in the UK
India could do something along these lines to bring cheer and recognition to her fighting men
IOL details Petraeus's afghan plan. This cropped up with discussion between French and Amriki CoS.
Secure zones will be held with the participation of Pashtun militia for the collection of intelligence and the guarding of major routes, schools and hospitals. “That implies respecting local chiefs and mullahs, farmers and shopkeepers - and drinking a lot of cups of tea,” acknowledged the Petraeus at the 45th conference on security at Munich.
At his first meeting as commander-in-chief with heads of joint chiefs of staff and military services Wednesday Jan. 28, President Barack Obama hit the nail on the head when he said: "We're going to have some difficult decisions to make surrounding Iraq and Afghanistan, most immediately."
He added: "Obviously our effort to go after extremist organizations that do harm to our homeland is uppermost in our minds."
The meeting, also attended by vice president Joseph Biden, took place in the secure Pentagon conference room called "the Tank."
Obama's sense of urgency was palpable but, interestingly, he made no mention of Pakistan, although it has become closely interwoven in the Afghanistan conflict. Last week, he and secretary of state Hillary Clinton appointed Richard Holbrooke special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan. But nothing has happened since then.
Obama is precise in his geographical directives and matches them to his political and military strategic viewpoints. George Mitchell's brief as Middle East envoy did not cover Iran, and the envoy for Iran (Dennis Ross?) was not assigned to deal with Hizballah and Hamas. By the same token, Holbrooke's terms of reference do not include India and Kashmir, although the problems of the entire subcontinent are inextricably intertwined in a single knot.
This precise distribution of tasks guarantees the president and secretary of state room for maneuver and ease of control over envoys who are strong characters in their own right. It also interfaces with the approach set forth by defense secretary Robert Gates Tuesday, Jan. 27, at a hearing before the Armed Forces Committee of Congress.
Time running out fast for winning the Long War
Setting forth "modest goals for Afghanistan, he defined success as an "Afghanistan that is not a safe haven for al Qaeda, whose people reject the rule of Taliban insurgents and support a legitimate government." Gates added cautiously: "…success in Afghanistan also requires security progress in neighboring Pakistan given the porous and violent frontier between the two nations."
A tall order, yet Obama and Clinton were clearly at pains this week to keep the US army's warfronts down to two - Iraq and Afghanistan – while minimizing additional arenas.
This approach contrasts sharply with that of their predecessor. George W. Bush was ready to take on al Qaeda and other extremist terror groups wherever necessary in Asia, the Middle East or Africa – except that he kept on running out of fighting manpower.
Aware of this limitation, Obama is taking the opposite tack: He aims at reducing the geographic arenas of conflict in which US forces are engaged, while also concerned to reduce the loss of life and budgetary outlay.
At his congressional hearing, Gates tried to gloss over the differences between the two administrations on both of which he served: "Obama, like President George W. Bush before him, was committed to going after al Qaeda targets, wherever al Qaeda is," he said.
But a different strategic approach to the war on terror - the "Long War" - may have been overtaken by time.
DEBKA-Net-Weekly's military and counter-terror experts argue that time is the enemy of the Obama-Clinton-Gates goal of keeping the Afghanistan War within strict geographical limits.
Taliban and al Qaeda prepare their own surge – from Pakistan
Even if the transfer of 30,000 troops from Iraq to Afghanistan takes place without a hitch – although Gates and US commanders warn against too rapid a pace – the first detachments will not be ready to go into the battlefield before late 2010, although troops from other units are due to arrive this coming fall.
Work on the new camps and logistic-operational infrastructure to absorb the new intake is only just beginning.
And once the first troops are in place and ready to engage the Taliban and al Qaeda, they will still be restricted to areas close to Kabul and their new bases and not other, more dangerous parts of Afghanistan.
This time line depends on al Qaeda and Taliban standing still, when in fact they are deep into a surge of their own which they are leveraging from strong positions in Pakistan.
Their foothold in the Pakistani districts of Mohmand and Bajaur covers a key corridor slicing through the three provinces of Kunar, Nuristan and Kapisa and reaching as far as the Afghan capital of Kabul.
In the Swat valley, once a scenic tourist area of northern Pakistan, the Pakistani army fought and quelled an insurgency - but only at the expense of alienating its people. Today, Pakistani troops fear to venture into this new hotbed of defiance. All of Swat but for the towns of Mardan, Sawabi and Charsada is now under the Taliban's thumb and a willing wellspring of fighting strength.
The strategic Khyber Pass district, long the route through which eight-tenths of NATO's supplies passed into Afghanistan, is now under constant attack, forcing its commanders to seek out alternative, uncertain supply lines through Russia and Central Asia.
Gates needs three-to-five years to achieve success
Pro-Western Pakistani, Saudi and Turkish circles in touch with al Qaeda and Taliban in Pakistan report that both are absolutely certain they will soon control every bit of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border strip including the North West Frontier Province, as well as sections of southwest Baluchistan and the city of Karachi's outlying region.
They are contemptuous of Asif Ali Zardari and his government in Islamabad and confident it will soon be swept away.
While this may be an exaggeration, even US intelligence sources admit the two violent organizations are on the ascendant in Pakistan; they are expanding their control, gobbling up territory and getting stronger militarily all the time.
Al Qaeda and Taliban are thought by broad Pakistani political, military and intelligence sources to be on the brink of launching a general offensive inside their country to gain more ground and control of more terrain abutting on Afghanistan. In the opinion of those sources, the Pakistani army is in no shape to withstand an al Qaeda-Taliban onslaught.
Last week, the US defense secretary remarked in this regard: "The goals we did have for Afghanistan are too broad and too far in the future."
He urged a strategy for now that would define "more concrete goals that can be achieved realistically within three to five years in terms of re-establishing control in certain areas, providing security for the population, going after al Qaeda, preventing the re-establishment of terrorism, better performance in terms of delivery of services to the people – some very concrete things."
Very few military experts believe that a new US envoy, in the controversial person of Richard Holbrooke, frequent US drone strikes in the Pakistan border districts – since Obama took office, two attacks took place in South and North Waziristan killing 21 people - and even a troop surge, will grant the new US administration the three-to-five years sought by Gates.
Was that the time span the US president was thinking of when he talked about making difficult decisions "most immediately?"
If so, they will be too late. Quite soon, the Taliban and al Qaeda will be swarming over yet broader expanses of Pakistan. Whether the new White House likes it or not, the war has solidly crossed the Afghan-Pakistani border and is already burning up much of Pakistan.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 09 Mar 2009 22:26
by ramana
The search for good taliban is in effect an effort to separate the Pashtun nationalists from the Pashtun Islamists. As we on BRF had postulated Pashtun nationalsim was thwarted by the creation of TSP and that it morphed into the Taliban with Islam as the basis. Another factor is the factional divide among the Pashtuns with the Ghilzais joining the Taliban. I don’t see who the US plans to support Pasthun nationalism while still supportin the TSP state. Tribal heirarchies might induce some non Ghilzai tribes to opt to become good taliban, but the bad Taliban who are the face of the TSPA’s Islamist faction will remake the tribal heirarchies. One way is to create an autonomus Pashtun region in Afghanistan to assuage the Pashtun national aspiration instead of all those provinces which though they comprise Pastun region are not formally recognised as such. This can be part of re-structuring Afghanistan on federation basis. However this only takes care of Pashtuns, west of Durand Line who constitute one third of Pasthun population. The majority of Pashtuns live in TSP. And thanks to the inaction of US and action by TSP the Durand Line is effectively erased. So even the Pashtun regions of TSP need to be constituted into an autnomous region which has open borders between the two countries. The Ghilzais are mostly in the TSP areas and can gain some significant role in Pashtun governance. This way the Pashtun nationalism might be assuaged while keeping Westaphalian borders of TSP and Afghanistan. The Pashtun Islamists will be reduced in numbers and should be tackled along with all the other militant factions in TSP as part of a pacification program.
-------------------
Note: I use taliban for the Pashtun nationalists and Taliban for Pashtun Islamists.
DEBKA-Net-Weekly Exclusive 385 Updated by DEBKAfile
March 9, 2009, 10:42 AM (GMT+02:00)
Taliban in Afghanistan: Talking and fighting
On Feb. 20, DEBKA-Net-Weekly 385 disclosed that from late December, agents of Saudi intelligence chief Prince Muqrin Abdul Aziz paved the way for Richard Holbrooke's mission to Afghanistan and Pakistan as Barack Obama's special envoy.
This initiative also laid the groundwork for US president Barack Obama's hint at possible talks with moderate Taliban elements to The New York Times Sunday, March 8, a month after he approved another 17,000 troops for Afghanistan.
Karzai welcomed the move saying he had long supported dialogue with Taliban members who are not connected with terrorists.
The Saudis launched their mediation bid in the last week of December 2008, DEBKA-Net-Weekly first revealed, when Mullah Omar and party secretly visited Saudi Arabia in the guise of early Ramadan pilgrims. His two senior companions were Aghajan Mutasim and Abdul Hakim Mujahid.
Karzai was represented by his older brother Qayum
In two audiences, King Abdullah promised that if the Taliban pledged to stop fighting and joined the Afghan civilian government, it could count on Saudi political and financial support for its role in the Kabul administration.
That Mullah Omar was willing to travel to the kingdom while fighting US-led forces alongside Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda was taken in Washington and Riyadh as a hopeful sign that a breakthrough was possible toward a negotiated end to the conflict.
In his New York Times interview, Obama admitted that the US was not winning the war.
DEBKA-Net-Weekly's Washington sources noted that it took four weeks into his presidency for Obama to put in his first phone call to Karzai on Tuesday, Feb. 17. "It had become necessary," they said, "to pour oil on relations marred in recent weeks by leaked hints in the US media that the administration was looking for ways to remove the Afghan president."
Vice president Joe Biden and other advisers had been pressing Obama to get rid of Karzai quickly - even if this meant postponing the August presidential elections. But Holbrooke, who departed Kabul for New Delhi in the middle of the week with a comprehensive South Asia peace plan, warned the US president that ditching the Afghan president at this juncture would be unwise and could put the peace track with Taliban at risk. He urged Obama to stick with Karzai and show him a willingness to cooperate. End of quote form DEBKA-Net-Weekly.
Vice president Joe Biden will report on the Afghanistan situation with NATO allies in Brussels Monday, March 9, laying the ground for the president's discussion early next month at the G20 summit in London and the EU-US summit in Prague.
The United States has called for a high level international conference to map out a new strategy on Afghanistan to which all its neighbors would be invited, including Iran.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 10 Mar 2009 03:55
by ramana
So they want karzai to anoint the good taliban. And then elect him out. All this means they dont understand tribal and Islamist mores.
How do you identify moderate Taliban? I think we have to help Obama...
1.Anyone that holds less than 3 hostages
2.Anyone that believes that beheading a hostage is ok but videotape of it should mask out the face of victim..
3. Please use stones that have no sharp edges when you kill adulterers
Someone tipped of the French as to whats at stake. I think the idea is for NATO stabilization so the drugs can keep going just as they were in the British times. Thats the only way to restore the financial stability to West.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 11:11
by Prem
Suppiah wrote:How do you identify moderate Taliban? I think we have to help Obama...
1.Anyone that holds less than 3 hostages
2.Anyone that believes that beheading a hostage is ok but videotape of it should mask out the face of victim..
3. Please use stones that have no sharp edges when you kill adulterers
...
Moderate Talibans are the one who per Islamic injuction say special prayer for the victim before decapitating them , hardliners jut ignore the prayer part ,thus go against islam.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 13:51
by Sanjay M
Will Obama hand Afghanistan back over to Pakistan?
In that case, Pakistan would resume its campaign to conquer the entire country, and India would have no choice but to resume support for the Northern Alliance. Once the standoff gets bitter enough, Taliban would once again turn to the trans-national Islamists like AlQaeda for help. Then the cycle that led to 9/11 would repeat itself again.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 17:47
by vavinash
India, russia and iran need to ensure that afghanistan does not go to pakistan or taliban even if it means splitting afghanistan or pakistan.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 17:57
by Sanjay M
Splitting Afghanistan will automatically lead to splitting of Pakistan, as I've told people here numerous times. And of course it's easier to split Afghanistan.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 18:22
by KLNMurthy
Sanjay M wrote:Will Obama hand Afghanistan back over to Pakistan?
In that case, Pakistan would resume its campaign to conquer the entire country, and India would have no choice but to resume support for the Northern Alliance. Once the standoff gets bitter enough, Taliban would once again turn to the trans-national Islamists like AlQaeda for help. Then the cycle that led to 9/11 would repeat itself again.
Is the NA still viable?
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 11 Mar 2009 19:49
by shyamd
They want to integrate the taliban into the parliament probably. Make it "democratic". Which means that AQ and their friends are still going to exist. Bad news for India. Taliban footsoldiers would probably integrate into the ANA, which again is not good news.
Ind/RUS/Iran will probably have to support different political parties. But a strong taliban could probably take over eventually, if the ANA is left weak.
If I was India, I would ask the coalition to fly in ANA trainees to India(other allied nations in the region) for training in large numbers. Not the small level training that India is reportedly providing.
Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion
Posted: 12 Mar 2009 00:06
by putnanja
I was listening to NPR today morning which had a program on the Afghanistan situation. There was this dorkette from Delhi they were talking to, some "anita(?) mazumdar"? I got the last name but not the first name. She is supposed to have been in Afghanistan for last year or so.
On more regional aid to Afghanistan, she basically said that the countries in the region had given up as they feel they can't compete with US!! Didn't mention anything about the Indian aid at all.
And on Indian solution to afghanistan, she said that what she says might go down well with India govt, but Kashmir is linked to Afghanistan-Pakistan situation. She said that unless there was political comfort between TSP and India, Afghan-paki situation won't improve!!