Tibet watch

[Christopher Sidor]

For many of us, who claim that India should not have allowed Tibet to under, there is an interesting article by Parshotam Mehra, Panjab University in Chandigarh (India) which was originally published in 2007, which should be read first. In this article there are two paragraphs, about the role Soviet Union played in the so called peacefull reunification of the Tibet into China.

Soviet Russia’s role in Tibet’s “liberation” makes for interesting reading. It is clear that Stalin saw the land of the lama as a Western stooge, and lent Mao and his men not only considerable moral support in the task of “liberation” but also, in the initial stages, tangible armed assistance and training of personnel. Tibet, it appears, emerged as a major subject during Mao’s official visit to Moscow (December 1949- January 1950). When the Chairman asked Stalin to continue Russian air support rendered in the case of Sinkiang for Beijing’s impending attack on Tibet, Stalin’s response: “It is good you’re getting ready for the attack. Tibetans should be taken in hand.” Liu Shao-chi in a memorandum to Stalin (late 1949) expressed the view that “the question of Tibet should be solved by political means and not by military force.” Three years later (1952) Peking asked Moscow for help “in establishing control over Tibet.”

Stalin told Mao that Tibet is “a part of China” and therefore Chinese troops “should be stationed” in Tibet. Chou En-lai affirmed that keeping Chinese troops in Tibet was “indisputable.” The Soviets held Mao’s absorption of Tibet to be justified and underlined the urgency of its “peaceful liberation” from western imperialism. The historian Leontiev (1958) expressed the view that Tibet had been turned into a “semi-colony of British imperialism, an agrarian and raw material appendage for the imperial powers.”

One of the many instances where Soviet Unions actions had hurt our interests. To put it into prespective, about where things stood, in 1947-50 period India did not have full control over her armed forces. The biased role played by UK and certain section of the British establishment, in Kashmir, should be kept in mind. Chief among these was way the so called northern territories were handed over to Pakistan.

It is not known whether, Soviet's ever officially gave the nascent Indian government info on their dealings with Chinese over Tibet. Or did they ever give India information on where they stood on the so called question of reunification of Tibet and China. Whether Indian government was aware that Soviets gave significant material help to the chinese conquest of tibet is also unknown.

If we had gone, and taken the so called US and UK's help in keeping Tibet's independent, we could have severely burnt our bridges with Soviet Union. A partner which would prove invaluable in helping us industrialize in 1950s, 60s and as far as 1970s. Soviets would see us a stooge of West Imperialism. We would have seen as a part of West or its hand-maiden. This is something which is loathe even today.

And think about it for a minute, we would have taken help from a country, UK, which played a partisan role in the Kashmir conflict and was partially responsible for the partition. We could not trust UK, over such a momentous decision. And we could have earned the displeasure of Soviet Union, with which we had hoped to build a beneficial relationship. In other words we did not have any trustworthy partners upon which we could have depended, when we were at our weakest.

This does not mean that our decision to let go of Tibet, was necessarily a correct one. But we should be aware of what happened and why it happened. More important we have to be aware of the constraints that we were operating under.

[sukhish]

Christopher Sidor,
we lost tibet because we didn't have the military hardware period. there is no such thing as the tibet policy, as if we the military capability to defend it. to this date we are sleeping.

[krisna]

Chinese historian: "To exaggerate the size of China’s historical territory is not patriotic" – Full Text

Chinese textbooks do attempt to hammer home the idea that Tibet is a part of China–often using some rather specious historical arguments in the process–but most scholars in the PRC look back to the mid-Qing takeover of Tibet as the true beginning of “Chinese” sovereignty over the region and the official position is that it begins during “China’s Yuan dynasty.” (ahem.)

The notion that Tibet was not under direct Tang administrative is perhaps less controversial, but it’s sure to get some attention nevertheless, especially since Professor Ge also is the Director of the Institute of Chinese Historical Geography. For the CCP, it seems any weakening of China’s “historical” sovereignty over the Tibetan plateau is a slippery slope that can only lead to a Dalai Lama Day parade through the streets of Lhasa

When discussing the peaceful rise of China and the history of the great powers of the world, it is natural to think of ancient China. Can ancient China be considered a “Great Power”? If so, how big was it? This is a prerequisite for knowing the history and comparing development. But up to now, people have held on to not a few misunderstandings.

First of all, “China” (Zhongguo) only officially became the name of our country with the founding of the Republic of China in 1912. Before this, the idea of China (“Zhongguo”) was not clearly conceptualized. The concept of “China” has continued to expand. From referring specifically to the central plains of China, the concept has since grown to now refer generally to a whole nation. Even during the late Qing, “China” would sometimes be used as a name to refer to the Qing State, including all the territory with in the boundaries of the Qing Empire, but other times it would only refer to the “18 Interior Provinces” and not include Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, Tibet, and Xinjiang. Therefore, if we want to understand the extent of ancient China’s territory, we can only speak of how large was the actual territory controlled by a particular dynasty at a particular moment. For example: How big was the Qin Dynasty? How big was the Tang Dynasty? How big was the Qing Dynasty? If you want to say how large was “China” at a certain time, you need to explain how “China” is conceptualized, including explaining which Dynasty or regime is being discussed.

*For example, if we ask: How big was 8th century China and if we speak about the borders of the Tang Dynasty, we cannot include the Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau. This was ruled by Tubo/Tufan (吐蕃), and so does not count. Tubo/Tufan was a sovereignty independent of the Tang Dynasty. At least it was not administered by the Tang Dynasty. Otherwise, there would have been no need for Tang Taizong to marry Princess Wencheng to the Tibetan king; there would have been no need to erect the Tang-Tubo/Tufan alliance tablet. It would be a defiance of history if we claim that since the Tang Dynasty, Tibet has always been a part of China – the fact that the Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau subsequently became a part of the Chinese dynasties does not substantiate such a claim. Of course, to look back from the perspective of contemporary borders, China’s current territory contains many areas that, from the perspective of 8th century political control, were independent of the authority of the Tang court including Tuobo/Tufan, Nanzhao [in Yunnan], and Bohai.

Second, it goes without saying that since the different dynasties lasted both a long time and a short time, it also goes without saying their territory similarly fluctuated. This is especially so of those dynasties that greatly expanded the scope of their borders from the beginning to the end of their rule, the territory under their control could vary considerably over time. Take for example the Western Han. In the beginning, their western border extended to the Hexi/Gansu corridor. Later, it expanded to Lake Balkhash only to then shrink back to the Yumen Pass in the latter years of the dynasty. In the early years [of the Han] the southern boundaries reached only as far as the Southern Ling Mountains. Even what is now Guangxi and Guangdong was under the contol of the Nan Yue. Yet by the middle and later periods, control in the south extended as far as what is today Vietnam.

After Tang Taizong defeated the Eastern Turks, the northern reaches of the Tang Empire extended all the way to the area around Lake Baikal. But when the Turks later regrouped, Tang control retreated to the Yinshan Mountains (in today’s Mongolia). Up to the reign of the Yongzheng Emperor during the Qing Dynasty, China’s borders did not include Xinjiang and it was not until the middle of the 18th century that the Qianlong Emperor was able to pacify the regions to the north and south of Tian Shan and extend Qing territory as far as Lake Balkhash and the Pamir Plateau. However, beginning around 1860, the northern reaches of Heilongjiang, the area east of the Ussuri River, and the northwest part of what is today Xinjiang—over 1,000,000 square kilometers of territory—was seized by Russia. In the 20th century, China for all practical purposes lost 1,500,000 square kilometers of territory that is Outer Mongolia.

Moreover, we must differentiate between territory that was actually under administrative control of a dynasty, that which was a vassal state, and that which was “within the reaches of our prestige.” [Within a dynasty’s sphere of influence?] For example, take the later stages of the Western Han. Even though the leader of the Xiongnu surrendered to the Western Han, Han Wudi was not able to incorporate the Xiongnu into the Han Empire. Moreover, he had to pay off the leader of the Xiongnu in order to have a guarantee that there would be not attacks across a border marked by the Great Wall. As a result, the borders of the Han Empire did not extend beyond the Yin Mountains and the Xiongnu were never a part of Han territory.

In another example, several times the children and grandchildren of Ghengis Khan marched westward, their cavalry sweeping over Asia and Europe. But by the time that Ghengis’ grandson, Khubilai, established the Yuan Dynasty, Ghengis’ other descendants had already split apart his empire, after which they became known as the Four Khanates. These other Khanates and the Yuan court were independent political entities, only that their rulers had the same ancestors. The borders of the Yuan Empire did not include parts of Xinjiang and the southern territory belonged to another Khanate, never mind Central Asia, Western Asia, and Europe.

Another example is Vietnam, the larger part of which was under the administrative control of the Han and Tang Dynasties. But beginning in the 10th century, Vietnam founded its own independent kingdom, after which, during the Song, Yuan, Ming, and Qing dynasties, it was a vassal state. Of course, this is not the same as complete independence, therefore before France made Vietnam a French colony, France had to force the Qing government to relinquish its sovereignty and claims over Vietnam. Nevertheless, we are not able–at least after the 10th century—to regard Vietnam as a part of “China.” Korea, the Ryukyu Islands, Burma are also in a similar category.

Now, what of the countries of South East Asia and Japan that have never officially been the vassals of any dynasty? Chinese history books call them “Tributary States.” Actually, it was either international trade under the “tribute” banner or else it was only temporary visits. Most of what the books call “Tributary States” are like this. What is more, we have only the one-sided views of the Qing court records that were based on past precedents and written for the court’s own aggrandizement. For example, people also called Russia, France, Portugal, and the “Red Hairs” as tribute states. (During the Ming, Dutch people were called “Red Hair Foreigners,” After the mid-Qing they also called the English, “Red Hair Foreigners”) Can we possibly accept that these states were also vassals of the Qing?

Until now, there are those people who feel that the more they exaggerate the territory of historical “China” or China’s successive dynasties and kingdoms the more patriotic they are. Actually, it is exactly the opposite. If China really wishes to rise peacefully, we must understand the true facts of history, only then will we be able to know the sum of our history, learn from our experiences, and so be on a solid footing to face the future.

(* Note: the third paragraph was translated by the good people at Letters from China, which is why it reads better than the rest of the text.)

The Qing Empire incorporated large swaths of territory that had never been fully under “Chinese” control, including Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan. Not surprisingly, it is those areas that give the current regime in Beijing the most headaches today.

dated article 2007 on googling.

[krisna]

Dalai Lama says China to have no say on successor

Tibet's spiritual leader the Dalai Lama on Saturday said he will decide when he is "about 90" whether he should be reincarnated and added firmly that China should have no say in the matter.

When I am about 90, I will consult the high lamas of the Tibetan Buddhist traditions, the Tibetan public, and other concerned people who follow Tibetan Buddhism, and re-evaluate whether the institution of the Dalai Lama should continue or not," he said.

Apart from the reincarnation recognised through such legitimate methods, no recognition or acceptance should be given to a candidate chosen for political ends by anyone, including those in the People?s Republic of China," he added.

[tejas]

The Chinese invasion of Tibet took place at the same time they were fighting the US in Korea. I had always wondered if Sardar was India's leader as he would have been if not for Mohandas Gandhi, if things would have been different. India could have told Umrikah they were happy to open a second front against China in Tibet but they needed weapons and air support. This was the height of anti-communism in the US and the fight could have been advertised as a fight against communist expansionism.

Meekly losing Tibet and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Kashmir are two of the many gifts Nehru gave India

[sanjeevpunj]

^^That is what was called the Himalayan Blunder and books were written to cover up for Chacha Nehru's mismanagement. Its still a burning sore.

[Christopher Sidor]

^^^^
What would have happened to our relationship with Soviet Union? We would probably have burnt our bridges possibly forever.

We had a beef with PRC and Pakistan. We did not have any beef with communism. We wanted to sit out this capitalist-communist conflict. We eventually sat out. The cold war was not our fight.

In 1950 we were in no position to challenge China. If we had asked US for help, we would have replaced within 3 years of our independence one foreigner with another. We should not forget that this help from USA would not have come free. It would have come with strings attached. Just like the Britishers used our manpower and the financial muscle of the Raj to carry out expeditions in Iraq, North Africa, China, etc... Americans would expect something similar.

We need to help Tibet based on our strength. This was true in 1950 and is true even now. If we want an independent Tibet, then we need to do it on our own. And we need to build a capability to sustain Tibet independence.

[paramu]

http://diggchina.blogspot.com/2011/03/s ... n-day.html

When I was a kid we used to dig holes in the back yard. Our mom would say, "My, what a big hole, you must be digging for China!" That is how my interest in China started.

When I first got my library card I discovered very little information about China. How I educated myself about China and continue to expore my understanding of all thinge Chinese is what this blog is all about.

[ShauryaT]

Just marking some key words in your post, that can have some alternative explanations.

^^^^
What would have happened to our relationship with Soviet Union? We would probably have burnt our bridges possibly forever.

We had a beef with PRC and Pakistan. We did not have any beef with communism. We wanted to sit out this capitalist-communist conflict. We eventually sat out. The cold war was not our fight.

In 1950 we were in no position to challenge China. If we had asked US for help, we would have replaced within 3 years of our independence one foreigner with another. We should not forget that this help from USA would not have come free. It would have come with strings attached. Just like the Britishers used our manpower and the financial muscle of the Raj to carry out expeditions in Iraq, North Africa, China, etc... Americans would expect something similar.

We need to help Tibet based on our strength. This was true in 1950 and is true even now. If we want an independent Tibet, then we need to do it on our own. And we need to build a capability to sustain Tibet independence.

[Prem]

Tibet: China: India: The attack on the Dalai Lama "I decide on my successor
http://www.speroforum.com/a/60985/Tibet ... -successor

The 76-year religious leader has made it clear once and for all who will be the one to choose and recognize his successor, reminding the Chinese authorities that "the last word on the appointment of the new spiritual leader of Tibetans is not up to Beijing. I Will consult the high lamas of the Tibetan Buddhist traditions, the Tibetan public and other concerned people who follow Tibetan Buddhism, and re-evaluate whether the institution of the Dalai Lama should continue or not".
"But", the Nobel Peace laureate emphasized, "apart from the reincarnation recognised through such legitimate methods, no recognition or acceptane should be given to a candidate for political purposes by anyone, including those in the People's Republic of China." The Dalai Lama concludes by clarifying that his next reincarnation "is my affair alone" and that "no one has the right to interfere."

[Agnimitra]

Aggravating news for all who cherish dharma:
Self-immolation 'trend' at restive Tibetan monastery

A Tibetan monk has set fire to himself - the fifth one this year - in an apparent indication of the escalating tension between Tibetans and the Chinese government.

The 17-year-old, named as Kelsang Wangchuk, was reported to have been carrying a photograph of the Dalai Lama as he set himself alight.

This is the latest in a series of incidents this year at the Kirti monastery, in Aba County - called Ngaba in Tibetan - in Sichuan province.

As well as the self-immolations, there has been a stand-off between residents and the security forces, and a row about a group of monks sent for re-education - an incident that even drew comment from the United Nations.

China has reacted by tightening security at the monastery, launching a series of criminal prosecutions and criticising the behaviour of some monks.

But it still appears to be struggling to assert its authority in at least this one Tibetan area.

[...]

China's state-run Xinhua news agency confirmed the incident had taken place {My, my} , saying the police had immediately extinguished the flames. The monk had only slight burns to his leg, according to Xinhua.

[...]

"A growing number of Tibetans clearly feel that this is the only way that they can be heard," said Stephanie Brigden, the director of Free Tibet.

This is the fifth case of self-immolation in Tibetan areas of western Sichuan province this year, something Ms Brigden described as a "worrying and absolutely unprecedented" trend.

[...]

"Whatever the reason for this, it's a very strong and desperate indication that the people there are totally unhappy," he said from the government's base in Dharamsala in India.

[...]

Kirti has a sister monastery in Dharamsala, and the two sets of monks keep in touch using mobile phones.

"It seems the monastery is under heavy police and military surveillance," said Thubten Samphel, adding that reports had come from this informal network between the two monasteries.

But, in an indication of just how patchy those links can be, he said the government-in-exile learnt about this latest self-immolation only through international news reports.

[...]

But the Chinese government has not been passive - it has attempted to counter the discontent being displayed at the Kirti monastery.

Access to Kirti monastery is restricted but this image of a monk's funeral was sent to campaigners. In August it sentenced three monks to lengthy prison sentences for helping another to kill himself through self-immolation in March.

And earlier this year it ordered the "legal education" of monks at the monastery, an incident, among others, that resulted in queries from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

It wanted to know what was going on at the Kirti monastery and surrounding area.

The Chinese government gave perhaps its fullest justification yet for its actions at the monastery in its reply to the UN.

It accused the monks there of long being engaged in acts "aimed at disturbing social order", including vandalism and self-immolation. {Ridiculous}

"Some monks of the monastery also frequented places of entertainment, prostitution, alcohol and gambling, and spread ***** CD-Roms," said the official document from May this year. {Ah ok, this justifies everything that the Popes in Peking do.}

China told the UN that forcing the monks into re-education was a "showcase" of how to manage religious affairs.

Many at Kirti monastery appear to disagree with that view. {No shit?}

[Agnimitra]

I guess PRC's footprint in Africa is already big enough to dictate foreign policy -
Dalai Lama cancels South Africa trip over visa

The Dalai Lama on Tuesday cancelled a trip to South Africa after Pretoria failed to grant him a visa, fuelling criticism that President Jacob Zuma's administration is appeasing China.

Anti-apartheid leader Desmond Tutu had invited the Tibetan spiritual leader, a fellow Nobel Peace Prize winner and longtime friend, to give an inaugural peace lecture as part of celebrations for Tutu's 80th birthday.

"His Holiness was to depart for South Africa on October 6, 2011 but visas have not been granted yet," said a statement from the Dalai Lama's office in India.

[...]

South African foreign ministry spokesman Clayson Monyela insisted that normal visa procedures were being followed and that no decision had been taken when the Dalai Lama decided to cancel the trip.

"Unfortunately he's decided to pull out of the trip, which is his decision, and we have noted that decision," Monyela said.

South Africa had previously denied the Dalai Lama a visa in 2009 and openly admitted it was acting out of deference to Beijing, which views the Tibetan leader as a "splittist".

[...]

South African Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe last week made a four-day visit to China, where he signed a series of trade deals but made no mention of the visa issue.

[Rudradev]

There's apparently quite a bit of anger about this in SA. Desmond Tutu himself has launched a furious attack on the ANC govt for caving in to China:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc ... sfeed=true

[Pratyush]

^^^

A continuation of the HH DL Visa row, Worse than apartheid govt: angry Tutu over Dalai visa row

Reminds of an old saying

Evil doesn't thrives because it is strong, it thrives because too many good people do nothing to oppose it. At least one good man has voiced his opposition to the treatment received by HHDL at the hands of SA government.

[chaanakya]

China reserves Dalai's birth

...............the Dalai Lama may look like just a simple monk but the issue of his reincarnation is already bothering Asia's two emerging powers - China and India. Last Saturday, as the Dalai Lama announced that he would decide whether to be incarnated when he is "about 90", he made it clear that the Chinese government would have no say in the matter. "No recognition or acceptance should be given to a candidate chosen for political ends by anyone, including those in China," the Dalai Lama said at the conclusion of a three-day meeting of Buddhist leaders. The reaction from Beijing, though expected, was acerbic.

In this back and forth posturing, the real significance of the meeting at which the Dalai Lama made his announcement was missed. The fact that Tenzin Gyatso spoke about his reincarnation at a meeting of heads and representatives of four major traditions and sub-traditions of Tibetan Buddhism, ancient Bon tradition and religious l e a d e r s f ro m Himalayan Buddhist regions of India, Nepal and Bhutan has substantial significance. "By doing so, the Dalai Lama has established that he is not just the leader of Tibetans but all Buddhists in this area and so the issue of his reincarnation is not something to be decided between him and China but it may involve all Buddhists in the Himalayan region," says Tenzin Tsundue, writer and activist.

This could be an extremely important development for India, which has a large Buddhist population along the Himalayan arc that forms the border with China. "The issue of the Dalai Lama's reincarnation is a matter of great significance not just to the Tibetans but to Buddhists and followers across the world," says Tsona Rinpoche, a reincarnated monk from Arunachal Pradesh who attended the meeting at Dharamsala.

With Lobsang Sangay, the prime minister of Tibetan government in exile, assuming his political powers, the Dalai Lama has now become the global brand ambassador of the "Free Tibet" movement. "Now, the Dalai Lama's international stature is so big that China's assertion that his future reincarnation has to be approved by Beijing lacks complete credibility," says an official of the government in exile. The strategy of turning the Dalai Lama into an international giant who could dwarf the Chinese communists in their game-plan came after a lot of soul searching by the government in exile, particularly after Beijing managed to install their candidate as the 11th Panchen Lama in 1995. "We don't want to repeat the fiasco of Panchen Lama who Beijing is now parading in China and Tibet as a progovernment Buddhist monk," says Tsundue.

Nothing worries China more than the Dalai's travels across the globe. A White Paper on China's "peaceful rise", published by Beijing last month, said, "The Chinese people... will never allow any external forces to interfere in China's internal affairs ...[while China] does not interfere in other countries' internal affairs. It is opposed to the practices of the big bullying the small..."

This is the same language that was used to warn the Nehru government in the 1950s. The ground reality in India, China and Tibet might have changed but not the Chinese posturing over the issue of Tibetan independence.

[Klaus]

Former monk sets himself on fire.

Norbu Dathul, 19, called out "Tibet needs freedom" and "His holiness the Dalai Lama must return" before setting himself alight on Saturday in the main market of Aba

The latest incident -- confirmed by another rights group with contacts in the region -- takes the number of people reported to have set themselves on fire to eight this year.

The number of monks at Kirti monastery has fallen to about 600 from 2,500 in March due to "compulsory patriotic re-education, detentions and expulsions," Free Tibet has said previously, citing sources in the region.

Many Tibetans in China are angry about what they view as increasing domination by the country's majority Han ethnic group, and the Kirti monastery has become a flashpoint for the growing anger at the erosion of their culture.

[harbans]

Evil doesn't thrives because it is strong, it thrives because too many good people do nothing to oppose it. At least one good man has voiced his opposition to the treatment received by HHDL at the hands of SA government.

You are absolutely right. That is the norm. Couple that with the fact that most people really don't stand up for something, so they fall for just anything. That's why things come to a point where only events drive affairs and result in clashes of value systems. Fascism was confronted only after much pandering, Islamism is being confronted only in bits and spurts. It will take a lot for most to realize that it takes much more to stand by something strongly and defend than just going with the grain and wind. The world will suffer for that inability. Nepal rejected it's core heritage for atheistic Maoism. Today it's economy is down the drain, factionalism drains it. At least HHDL holds the Tibetan dream high. One day i seriously wish that country gains it's independence. Meanwhile India should claim Kailash and Mansarover region openly. Let that be marked disputed in maps across the world. Let people know we too have a claim on an area that hundreds of millions in India believe is their 'Mecca'.

[Varoon Shekhar]

"Meanwhile India should claim Kailash and Mansarover region openly. Let that be marked disputed in maps across the world."- Harbans

Can you imagine the irony and idiocy of a Han Chinese soldier, bureaucrat or propagandist, claiming Tibet as part of China, yet not knowing even the first thing about those places, that have been visited peacefully by Indians for eons? The Indian approach to Tibet is very different. Indians will lay emphasis on people, values, philosophy, culture,cultural influence, liberalism, pluralism, freedom and democracy. To the Chinese, it's all empire, control, territory, domination, military, politbureau, boundary issues and the driest, coldest legality, itself highly suspect and questionable.

[chaanakya]

China police fire on Tibetans, nun burns to death: Report

BEIJING: Chinese police shot and injured two Tibetan protesters in southwestern China last Sunday, and a Tibetan nun burned herself to death the following day, a group advocating self-determination for Tibet said, the latest in months of protests.

The self-immolation and the protests signal that anger is swelling in Aba county, a mainly ethnic Tibetan part of Sichuan province that has been the centre of defiance against Chinese control.

The condition and whereabouts of the two casualties, Dawa and Druklo, are unknown, the London-based Free Tibet group said.

Elsewhere in Sichuan, a 20-year-old nun, Tenzin Wangmo, set fire to herself on Monday afternoon outside a nunnery, three km (1.8 miles) from Aba county, the ninth self-immolation this year in the Tibetan parts of China, Free Tibet said.

She had called for religious freedom in Tibet and for the return of the Dalai Lama as she set herself alight, the group said.

Her death comes seven months after a Tibetan Buddhist monk, Phuntsog, 21, from the restive Kirti monastery, burned himself to death. That prompted a crackdown, with security forces detaining about 300 Tibetan monks for a month. .

A Sichuan government propaganda official surnamed Yuan told Reuters that she knew "nothing about the two cases so far".

[svinayak]

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... ina-65.asp

There is no such thing as Tibetan question: China
PRESS TRUST OF INDIA
SmallerDefaultLarger

Beijing, Oct 20: China today asserted that there is no such thing as "Tibetan question" as advocated by the Dalai Lama and would not brook any external interference as it considered all issues related to Himalayan region as its internal affair.
Answering a question about the recurring self immolations by Buddhist monks including a nun opposing Chinese rule in Tibet, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu told a media briefing here today the place where the suicides have taken place was outside Tibet.
"This case (self immolation by a Nun) took place in Sichuan province instead of Tibet", she said referring to the Kirti Monastery in Aba county where the unrest by monks is taking place.
The prefecture with large number of Tibetan population is located in Sichuan province neighbouring Tibet.
Kirti is a monastery of the Gelugpa also known as the Yellow Hat Sect of Buddhism. It is one of 42 monasteries in Aba County, an area with 5,226 registered monks.
Nine monks, including a nun burnt themselves in recent months protesting Chinese rule of Tibet as well as demanding return of the Dalai Lama.
Elaborating China's stand, Jiang said "as per so-called cases (monks) our position is clear, Tibetan related issues are China's internal affair and there is no such thing as Tibetan question played up by some forces."
"China opposes the splittist activities and will firmly uphold sovereignty and territorial integrity and oppose any country to use Tibet related questions to interfere in China's internal affairs," she said.
"We will protect the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese citizens according to law and we will also practice the policy of religious freedom for all Chinese people.
We will also urge the local government to protect the property and human safety and uphold normal social and religious order," she said.

[joshvajohn]

I would like to reiterate my statement that I made long back. Getting autonomy and moving Chinese army to the border to Tibet is the best way to solve many problems in Asia.

India being threatened by Chinese in every front the best way is to help Tibetians to liberate Tibet or get maximum autonomy to them to the extent of pushing Chinese army to their borders.

I realise that we do not need and want a confrontation with China but China has alreardy confronted in every possible ways such as setting their army in POK and taking half of Arunachel Pradesh and proposing Pakistan to UNSC. In the sense that China supports Pakistan based terrorism which is against India and possibly against West also against Chinese too!

'Wish India speaks more about Tibet's cause'
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/wis ... 38004.html

India must wake up to Chinese threat
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/inside- ... se-threat/

[Varoon Shekhar]

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/195743/our ... et-pm.html

Hard questioning, but sympathetic interview with the new leader of the TGIE, by Karan Thapar.

[joshvajohn]

Tibetan refugees tell their stories
http://macedon-ranges-leader.whereilive ... r-stories/

Et tu, Manchu?
http://www.economist.com/node/21531525/comments

Tibet is Burning: Is the Freedom Movement Entering a New Phase?
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... new_phase/

[Christopher Sidor]

My heart goes out to the Tibetian people. I hope that they achieve a goal of independent, free and sovereign Tibet.

[joshvajohn]

China urged to end crackdown on Tibetan monksUN investigators say security measures are counter-productive and accuse local officials of severely curtailing human rights
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/no ... sfeed=true

China's 'ruthless' Tibet policy to blame for monk deaths, says Dalai Lama
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc ... sfeed=true

Indian political fools keep their mouth shut. While Chinese reds is building all defence system to help Pakistan in Pok, Indian politcos are just spectators. While Chinese red army is taking inch by inch in Arunachel pradesh our central ministers say there is no threat from North! We need to renew our policy of Tibet and call for its freedom from China. Remove their maps and start giving Tibetians a different visa. Also show some solidarity with Tibetians otherwise India should not have done anything in the beginning of Tibetian issue at all. By keeping quiet India is not going to help herself. India needs completely a different policy to keep Chinese red army in its place. Chinese red army either should reform and become a democratic country where some form of autonomy can be given within China's wider rule. If there is no hope for democracy let Chinese reds fight themselves and so let Tibet gets her own freedom and independence that will solve many of the Asia's problems.


Tibetan Nun Dies in Self-Immolation
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/world ... ation.html

U.S. urges changes after Tibet monk suicides
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2011101 ... es-111019/

"Tibet is Burning"
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx ... 15&t=1&c=4

Chinese Red Army thinks that they have made China wealthiest nation. yes they are richest company now but if the West and the rest of the world starts boycotting their goods for human rights abuse then their economy will collapse! They are not living alone in this earth. They have to be interdependent. Unless they stop converting these Tibetians into chinese, it is going to be the end of Chinaa itself!

[Pratyush]

Another one in Delhi.

Tibetan exile sets self on fire in New Delhi

Thankfully his life was saved by the quick response of Delhi Police. But he is still without a homeland that is free from alien occupation.

[joshvajohn]

Dalai Lama asks China to review Tibet policy#
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 65053.aspx

5 Nov, 2011, 04.24PM IST, PTI
US asks China to resolve grievances of Tibetans
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 619227.cms

Tibetan sets himself ablaze to draw attention of G-20
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 611905.cms

[svinayak]

Cops douse the flames after Tibetan activist Sonam Tserab sets himself on fire.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/tibe ... 58780.html

[Karan Dixit]

I hope Tibetans would stop putting themselves on fire. It only helps their enemy - China.

[joshvajohn]

10,000 Tibetans pay tribute to nun who set herself on fire

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2011110 ... z1cvp8R87b

[Agnimitra]

This one from today's ATimes:
Will Aba be the CCP's Waterloo?

A string of self-immolations at a single Tibetan Buddhist monastery has put Aba prefecture, a remote corner of Sichuan province, in the news again, three years after violent protests in the run-up to the Beijing Summer Olympic Games and the devastation of the Wenchuan earthquake. A rising death toll of radicalized monks and mismanagement of the quake's aftermath will be taken as the Chinese Communist Party's legacy if it continues along its path of repression and re-education. - Peter Lee

[joshvajohn]

Censor veto to Rockstar's Tibet support sparks a row
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/rock ... 59274.html

Tibetan Freedom and the Day After
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx ... 85&t=1&c=4

I am not sure whether Tibet's freedom or Chinese democracy can ever be possible without many people's death or a fight with the Chinese red army!

Chinese people in general are good but unfortunately none of them is ready to speak openly against the red army. Many are executed for working or speaking against Chinese red army leaders.

Tibetians self immolations are desparate attempt to bring out the Chinese cruelty and assault on Tibetian people, their culture and their language and it is final stages of disappearence of a particular culture and people in21st century.

[Rudradev]

Censor veto to Rockstar's Tibet support sparks a row
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/rock ... 59274.html

LOL LOL LOL

A mega-hit Bollywood Blockbuster runs into trouble with the Censor Board of the Government of India! Not tallel-deepel Pakistan... not Bangladesh or Sri Lanka or Nepal... but INDIA!

Why? One song sequence in this movie "Rockstar" has a "FREE TIBET" flag clearly visible. The Censor Board (of the Government of India, yes India) asks that this flag be blurred out in a Hindi movie to be released for Indian audiences!

And we Pee Aar Eff guys complain when a mere corporation like Google shows Arunachal Pradesh and Aksai Chin as part of China on its maps... when PRC gives separate "stapled" visas to Kashmiris... when some Chinese corporation at a trade show in Gujarat displays a map with Aksai Chin and AP included in China. What can poor Google do, that the Government of India isn't bending over backwards to do already?

[Agnimitra]

^^^ What a shame.

[joshvajohn]

Some foreigners may pay into Indian congress ministers' pocket and influence their mind . Congress govt will change any policy if they get money into appropriate people's bank account.
Tibet is one such case for Indian government. Congress has shifted their foreign policy towards Tibet in this case. They have shown that this govt can and will work everything against Indian interest.

Censor's decision to blur Tibet flag angers Tibetans
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertain ... 67399.aspx

South African MPs Raise Their Voices for People of Tibet
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/int ... e-of-tibet

Clinton Confronts China about Tibet Issue at APEC
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/int ... e-at-apec-

No mercy
Self-immolations continue, as do the Communist Party’s hardline policies
http://www.economist.com/node/21538173

Top US Diplomat Criticizes China’s Treatment of Tibetans
http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/ ... -tibetans/

Is The Tibetan Freedom Movement Entering A New Phase?
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/outlook/ ... -new-phase

Tibet Is Still a Hidden Kingdom in the Internet Age
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-s ... 84639.html

The present congress govt humiliates the souls of Indian leaders including Nehru by working against Tibetian movements.

[Christopher Sidor]

Today I saw the movie Rockstar in which Tibetian flag was on prominent display. But the word "Tibet" in the slogan "Free Tibet" was blurred. Talk about spineless people. Even now we are capitulating to the Chinese. I wonder who is responsible for this blurring? The Censor board or was it a so called "self-restraint"

[joshvajohn]

‘Three Generations of Suffering’ Ignite Tibetan Self-Immolations
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/t ... 39612.html

Nehru’s Words in Present Context
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article3133.html

[joshvajohn]

Only dialogue can resolve Tibet issue: Dalai Lama aide
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_on ... de_1612394

Tibet's all news media to be bilingual in five years: official
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90882/7643438.html

[joshvajohn]

Tibet's monks driven to resist by Chinese repression, says exiled abbot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/no ... tion-china

China’s Tibet policy a harbinger of its arrogance on world stage?
http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?&id=9881

[Pratyush]

Tibetans in China seek fiery way out of despair