Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 28 Jan 2010 03:07

^^^ You need to watch if that is a Korean EJ project to penetrate a major Hindu holi place.
It is possible that the Ayodhya they refer to is ancient Ayutthaya empire in Thailand/Cambodia area.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2010 05:04

From Telegraph, Kolkata

LINK:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100128/j ... 032009.jsp

PURE, NAKED AND CAST OUT
Read between the lines, ancient texts reveal sources of women’s rage that society would like to wish away

Her skin was the colour of red hot iron; her hair bronze-tinted. She was of heavy build, powerful, invincible, and had mastered magic. She was outspoken, even foul-mouthed at times. Such was Surpanakha. Being a rakshashi, she had never fully understood the ways of humans. She did not know, for example, that in the human world women are supposed to hide behind a façade of modesty, that they are not supposed to express pure, naked desire. Which is why she had come out from behind the bush and had approached Ram, aroused by a crushing desire for his lithe, muscular, honey-skinned body.

She was not really good with words. Her proposal to Ram for sexual intimacy was so direct that had she said the same in 2010, the likes of the Shiv Sena would have staged a furious protest. “Tumi sundar purush, ami tomake dekhibamatro kaamer bashabartini hoia upasthit hoiachhi (You are handsome, I was overcome by sexual yearning for you the moment I saw you, so here I am)” — she said to Ram. Should she have been more subtle? Had it not been for Surpanakha’s unabashed candour, the war of Ramayan might not have taken place.

It is but obvious that both Ram and his brother, Lakshman, found Surpanakha repulsive. She was not exactly beautiful, at least not in the conventional sense. But what really annoyed the two brothers was her brazenness. A typical ‘womanly’ proposal, shy, elusive and indirect, would have been easy to evade for the noble Ram. But here was a woman who expressed her desire as directly, and with as much arrogance, as a man would have. Ram did not know how to deal with her. The best he could do was mock her crudeness. So the two brothers decided to play a game with her.

Ram told her that since he had his wife, Sita, with him, he could not indulge Surpanakha. He advised her to approach Lakshman instead. Surpanakha — the desire for a male body burning inside her — did not really care which of the two brothers she went for. As she approached Lakshman, he sent her back to Ram saying, “I am just his servant. You will be better off as his second wife than my first.” Thus Surpanakha was left begging the two brothers, one after the other, to sleep with her. Yet, she was not the least ashamed.

Failing to make her realize her folly, the two brothers decided on a different method. They pitched Sita against Surpanakha, in the hope that the latter would back off realizing that she was indeed no match for the former in terms of beauty. But Surpanakha, being ignorant of human ways, failed once again to comprehend that the only ground on which two women could compete in a human world was beauty. She tried to display her strength instead by attacking Sita, hoping to defeat her in a fight. Lakshman drew his sword and slashed off Surpanakha’s nose and ears in response. It is hard to say whether he did this to protect Sita or to punish Surpanakha for daring to show off her might in front of two men.

Bathed in blood, Surpanakha ran through the forest howling in despair, numbed by grief and scorched with anger. This is when she understood human ways. She decided to seek Ravan’s help to avenge Ram. At last, she had learnt the womanly trick of indirectness. A villainess was born in her. This is the villainess we so religiously hate when reading the “Aranya Kandya” of the Ramayan. She is seen as the ugly, sex-starved woman. I too hated her when I read the Ramayan for the first time as a child. It was a second reading at a more mature age that made me discover the woman in Surpanakha without being judgmental.

The recent furore in Andhra Pradesh over the depiction of Draupadi as a woman enjoying sex in the book, Draupadi, by Yarlagadda Lakshmi Prasad, shows how preconceived notions plague our reading of the epics. Society wants mythical heroines like Draupadi to be ‘pure’, with no sexual hunger, and the likes of Surpanakha face the wrath of Valmiki and his readers for the sheer blatancy of their craving for another human body. Perhaps it is time for us to grow up and face the real woman.

ADHEESHA SARKAR

Interesting modernist take.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 28 Jan 2010 06:02

^^^^ Bakwas. This is where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Women in that era were much more liberated than even the modern day woman.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 28 Jan 2010 06:18

In mahabharatha too, Hidimba comes to Bhima and professes her attraction to him. Though Bhima is initially angry, with his mother's blessings, he spends some time with Hidimba.

Similarly, Uloopi is supposed to have professed her love to arjuna.

Parashara lusts after satyavati when he she takes him across the river on her boat. She consents to spend time with him and that is how Veda Vyasa is born. She is supposed to have got rid of her fish smell by Parashara's blessings. She later on goes ahead and marries Shantanu and gives birth to Vichitraveerya and Chintrangadha.

Imagine a girl in India having pre-marital sex and giving birth to a child and then marrying someone else. Society has become more rigid now.

If one reads epics like Mahabharatha and Ramayana with an open mind, then one can understand the sexual freedom people in those days had.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2010 06:21

^^^^

That one was 400% leftist nonsense Ramanaji. They have been trying to do this nonsense for decades. If Surpanakha is so innocent, why would she go to Ravana and tells him that she wanted to get the "extremely beautiful" Sita for him, and got hurt by Rama / Lakshmana in the process?

Sage Valmiki tells the TRUTH, and he doesn't mince words in doing so. These leftist authors want to invent class-struggle out of it and they are yet to see success in it. Their interest is character assassination of Rama and Krishna; so that they can subdue Sanatana Dharma.

Valmiki even snubs Hanuma when he sees weakness, as he mis-recognizes Mandodari as Sita in Ravana’s palace. He says “Hanuma behaved to his nature, an ape”

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2010 06:28

Parashara lusts after satyavati when he she takes him across the river on her boat. She consents to spend time with him and that is how Veda Vyasa is born. She is supposed to have got rid of her fish smell by Parashara's blessings. She later on goes ahead and marries Shantanu and gives birth to Vichitraveerya and Chintrangadha.

Parashara was not behind Matsyagandhi (one with fish smell) for lust. He was a great astrologist, and authored Parashara Smriti.

He realized the grand planetory alignment (it includes the location of the birth) that could result in a great person's birth at that moment and seeks the help of Matsyagandhi to realize the birth of a greate sage. Thus came "Krishna Dvaipayana", who became Vyasa (which is an honorary title) and recompiled Vedas for present Kali Yuga.

Parashara left Matsyagandhi immediately, after giving her two boons. One her chastity will remain protected, and she will become Yojanagandhi (who will render pleasent smell for a yojana ~8miles).

In the current times there is little respect for Astrology and no wonder people know the greatness of Parashara Muni.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 28 Jan 2010 06:39

Hmm, I hadn't heard this version of parashara-satyavati meeting. The one I read was the kannada translation of vyasa bharatha, and I am pretty sure it didn't mention the astrological alignment being the cause for parashara's attraction to Satyavati. I will check if the ganguli version has it too.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2010 07:47

putnanja wrote:Hmm, I hadn't heard this version of parashara-satyavati meeting. The one I read was the kannada translation of vyasa bharatha, and I am pretty sure it didn't mention the astrological alignment being the cause for parashara's attraction to Satyavati. I will check if the ganguli version has it too.

I can understand Putnanja-ji,

We all learned those stories and stotras and hymns etc without knowing the real details. As privileged people (money, opportunity, education, and outlook) we must spend sometime to understand the true details of our Vedic heritage and enrich our lives.

People talk so much nonsense about the caste system that is built in Sanatana Dharma by misinterpreting and misquoting our scripts such as "Purusha Sukta".

Our vedas say "Janmaha jayate shudrah, sanskarat dwija uchyate" (by birth everyone is shudra, only thru sanskara=pure-ethics=by-worth one becomes dwija=twice-born=brahmana).

Rishya Sringa = By whose presence the rain comes and makes the entire region abundant/wealthy, was born from a deer's womb.

Jambooka Maharshi is born from a jackal's womb.

Valmiki, who wrote Ramayana, is a Boya=forest dwelling tribe

Veda Vyasa, who reorganized Vedas and who is considered as the Veda himself, was born to a fisher woman

Suta Maharshi who wrote 18 puranas was born to a Shudra woman.

Narada was born to a Shudra woman

Matanga maharshi is a scavenger, after coming to forests Rama first asked for Matanga Maharshi's ashram.

The varnas and castes are in one's prejudices. Our culture understood the natural formation of a society where the intellectuals were expected to guide them, where as Kshatriyas were expected to protect the nation and ensure the implementation of Dharmic law and order, Vaisyas to conduct trade, and remaining people as workers (labor force).

For example I am born in a brahmin-caste belonging to Kaushika gotra orignated by Viswamitra Maharshi, who was a Kshatriya-by-birth, and travelled to massaland on trade like Vysya, and working as a labor (sometimes on hourly basis

) like a shudra. Who am I now?

It is all maya onlee, until we open up our eyes

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 28 Jan 2010 20:20

ramana wrote:From Telegraph, Kolkata

LINK:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100128/j ... 032009.jsp

PURE, NAKED AND CAST OUT
Read between the lines, ancient texts reveal sources of women’s rage that society would like to wish away

It is hard to say whether he did this to protect Sita or to punish Surpanakha for daring to show off her might in front of two men.

ADHEESHA SARKAR
Interesting modernist take.

Adheesha Sarkar is trying to extrapolate today's sensibilities to understand history of those times. AFAIK, Mallika Sarabhai had also portrayed Surpanakha as a strong and librerated woman. She also put the same logic - Surpanakha liberated, Sita subdued. These people do not fail to amuse me. The society of which they are part accepts gracefully the freedom of women and the individual; the society has evolved from purdah to the current state and it is still evolving, depending on what is necessary. Ask them why at all the purdah came, they will be wishy washy or best say it is the fault of the Hindu society!!! I sometimes wonder if they refer to the lives of the numerous mothers whose brave sons and daughters fought against the briitish and died for the cause of the nation. Were these mothers subdued in any sense? What about the mother of Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj or maybe the Maharani of Jhansi?

Why the heartburn if the society extols the virtues of Ram? It is plain and simple leftist iconoclasm. Ram's character is suspect but tell this lady about Che Guevara - she will be raving and blushing. Of course, Che was the handsome dude !

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Jan 2010 20:23

It is not even today views, these are attempts of intellecutaly bankrupt (since they are deracinated) "na yahan ka na wahan ka" (neither here nor there) to parasitically live off the host.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 28 Jan 2010 23:25

The problem comes from equating "sexual freedom and right to express sexuality or desire" by women as "liberation and empowerment" of "women". This follows from the usual lagged fad from the west (typically lagged by one generation) syndrome. Ironically, those making such equations do not realize that in a way such a "liberation" is not necessarily a freedom from overall "male" manipulation of womens' sexuality.

By equating "freedom/liberty==sexual freedom/right of choice" in a way, the male order is still restricting the woman to her sexuality. Thus it is still "sexuality" which defines and characterizes the woman. Just the form has changed in consistency with changed economic processes. Women are now even more than in any previous time - a marketable commodity with explicit monetary prices. And the fact is that women consciously or subconsciously have no problem with it - at least there is no obvious protest.

I remember a small frivolous economics presentation I once made as a student, showing that the beauty and desirability of women could be priced by the difference in the income/asset levels of their relatively long term male sexual partners - marital or otherwise.

By giving choice of sexual partners/or modes of sexual expression, the modern capitalist market based economy is simply extending the concept of free-er market towards efficient price calculations (without so-called centralized-planned-authoritarian economic centres intevening and making the market "inefficient"). In a sexual-relations market where other aspects of the economy require more fluid movement of labour from one place to another - efficient organization of the sex-market requires dissolution of long-term exclusive bindings.

Freedom of choice on the part of women was very much part of Bharatyia society once. There is a famous case of a woman asking for the love/marriage of a king she loved, in open court. In fact the very first hint of a more restricted/exclusive "partnership" custom developing comes froma most reasonable illustrative anecdote. This was the natural problems of children wanting their mothers and fathers to stay together and be devoted to each other - a view supported by modern observations and psychiatric tests. This was about Uddalaka's son Swetaketu, who as a child had seen a stanger coming to his parents ashram and asking his mother "out" - and his mother "went". He had asked his father about this and his father had replied that women, among some other entities/objects were "free" and were not to be made into exclusive "properties". Swetaketu did not like this scenario and when he grew up and earned his right to establish customs, initiated the formal marriages structure we know today.

But if the basic Vedic marital vows are looked at - it is a commitment to each other and not about a deed of enslavement. It talks of becoming sky+earth, and become parts of the natural forces that are seen as symbolic of coming together to regenerate life and revel in life's beauty on earth.

It was not just about a primeval innocence lost under invasions of more repressive cultures in the middle ages. Look at Kumbha and Meera's story - right in the heart of Islamic "domination". How could Meera go about in the temples mingling and singing or performing before the public? The auticrat, the "jealous" - the angry Rana who could abduct the daughter of a minor chieftain to simply psychologically pressurize his wife - still allow his "queen" to go? Bhakti+sainthood+popular religious sentiment was so powerful that such an absolute monarch could do nothing? Or was it more than that - a desperate attempt by a lovelorn prince to gain entry into his beloved's heart who was however filled with a "higher" being - and deeper down at some level a continuation of that spirit of the Vedic marital vow to "hold the hand" and respect for such a "companionship"?

I think, one Rajput princess desperately wrote a letter to Ajit Singh of Mewar, when her family agreed to give her up for "marriage/concubinage" to Aurangzeb. She offered herself as Ajit Singh's bride in the proposal to come to her rescue. Ajit Singh accepted this.

Throughout the medieval period - we do have instances of women exercising their right to choose where feasible from among the non-Muslims of India.

Where do they find this period of "repression" and under whom - if only they specified that!

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 28 Jan 2010 23:38

Doesn't the swamayamvar concept itself prove that women had a right to choose their partner?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 28 Jan 2010 23:53

swyamvara is itself a bit tricky. There are hints in many texts that especially under autocrats, the family of the bride's "guided" the hands of the bride in bestowing the garland. Similarly the "democratic" Janapadas sometimes voted to make a girl of their community as apublic entertainer and banned from marrying - her beauty and sexuality and skills were supposed to be too great to be allowed to be made the exclusive enjoyment of one man.

The twisting of the "companionship" into dictated public/individual slavery happens whenever the woman is solely characterized as "sexuality". It happened in the past and it happens now. However, the philosophical underpinnings of Bharat does not recognize that overwhelming role of sexuality only - that is what I wanted to point out. In reality there would always be forces to depart form that ideal.

There is a story of a "malla" (wrestler/fighter/warrior) couple - "Bandhul" said to be contemporaneous with Siddhartha, whose wife was a warrior match for her husband, and taught students warfare and weaponry - who came to them for training as "shishyas". These are the stories that are edited out or dropped. I wish there were more of the type of that warrior wife.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 02 Feb 2010 00:30

Why are we discussing what is the leftist thought process of Indian epics,?

Certainly the Indian leftists have a complex understanding of everything not a clear one,
.
I once read somewhere that if leftists are allowed they will find class struggle and capitalism in Einstein's equations as well. It is their job in India to spread confusion
.
,never mind ,people who voted them earlier are also confused why they were doing so .and why not to do it again,because they are constantly confused by such articles.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Feb 2010 03:38

Is there a good commentary on SriChakram?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Feb 2010 13:02

Has anybody seen this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4GtimvTX6Q

Can the connection to the planets and jyotish be explained by this

http://www.globalshiftnoetic.org/index. ... &srcid=581
In this video, it explores the mystery of your body in its growth from a single cell to a symphony of activities guided by an inner intelligence that mirrors the wisdom of the universe.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Feb 2010 08:19

^^^

Acharyaji,

Nice extrapolation by Deepak Chopra!

Deepak Chopra is talking about "Atman" the individual consciousness and how it is same as Param Brahma. Atman is Param but Param is not Atman type equation, in a scientific way.

At certain level all energy can be defined as waves, with frequencies (or wavelengths) from zero to infinity. A small spectrum in that is audible, another spectrum is visible, another radio, another laser etc.

We can generate small spectrums of those waves, for example sound waves. That is why Mantra is said to create energy centers around us. Gayatri Mantra is said to generate spiral waves around us connecting the self with param. Aum is said to resonate with Param and so on.

JMT

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Feb 2010 08:28

Putnanja ji

Additional info on Parashara.

He is grandson of Vashista. Son of Sakti. Sakti conducted an yagna to destroy all Rakshasas but gave up that yagna after Brahma and other Gods convince him that he should not destroy anything without proper reason. In return Brahma gave him a boon that he cat he can create even alternative worlds (there is a post on Vashista Darshana in previous pages, which mentions multi-verses).

Viswamitra, before achieving Brahmarshi level, had a quarrel with Sakti and killed him by creating a demon called "Pruch". Parashara was conceived by that time and born later.

Parashara authored "Vishnu Purana". When he met "Matsya Gandhi" (previous discussion) he realized the opportunity to conceive a great scholar. He convinced Matsyagandhi and deposited his semen in her consensually. Thus born Krishna Dwaipayana (Veda Vyasa). This Krishna Dwaipayana wrote:

- The vedas as we know them today
- 18 puranas
- Upa Puranas and many others.

This stuff is mind boggling. IMHO historical maharshis are Cosmo-scientists.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 18 Feb 2010 13:57

IMHO Ramayana is a fairly good introduction to the geography of India, esp if you are in the age group of 3-8.

However, I noticed early on that Rama and Lakshmana come across Sabari's ashram on the banks of Pampa river BEFORE they meet Hanuman in Kishkindha (disguised as the ascetic).

Now, Sabari's ashram corresponds to Sabarimala in southern Kerala whereas Kishkindha is more or less located near Hampi in northern Karnataka.
The trio were roughly following a north-south path during the period of their exile, Sita is known to have been taken in Chitrakuta which roughly corresponds to modern day Nagpur area, so can experts explain the anomaly of Rama visiting a location in south Kerala before Hampi (which is closer to Chitrakuta/Nagpur as well)!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2010 14:38

Klaus wrote:
Now, Sabari's ashram corresponds to Sabarimala in southern Kerala

Err? Why?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 18 Feb 2010 15:51

^^^ Sabari's ashram is widely believed to be on the banks of the Pampa river which is in Southern Kerala, atleast that is the commonly held notion of how the mountain was named (deemed sacred as the old lady attained Moksha after Rama's visit), this is also the same reason which Lord Ayyappa gives to his parents before taking residence at the summit.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 18 Feb 2010 17:07

^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabari
From the above link

Shabari was a hunter's daughter[1] and belong to the Bhil tribal community.

Where are the Bhils found?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Feb 2010 17:08

rkirankr wrote:^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabari
From the above link
Shabari was a hunter's daughter[1] and belong to the Bhil tribal community.
Where are the Bhils found?

Madhya Pradesh/Chattisgarh

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 18 Feb 2010 18:03

^^ That rules out Sabarimala in the south then? Not to offend anyone. I always thought shabari was from the region of MP, however sabarimala angle is new to me.
Klausji or anyone, can you get some more details on whether the the sabarimala is linked to Shabari. I only find some travel related links where one mentioned that the hill is named after Shabari who did severe penance.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Feb 2010 03:58

There are Bhils in rajastan too. (There is a town called Bhilwara in Rajasthan too)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 19 Feb 2010 03:59

There are Bhils in rajastan too. (There is a town called Bhilwara in Rajasthan too)

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 19 Feb 2010 04:14

Amber G. wrote:There are Bhils in rajastan too. (There is a town called Bhilwara in Rajasthan too)

I thought that was Dilwara.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 19 Feb 2010 06:44

Amber G. wrote:There are Bhils in rajastan too. (There is a town called Bhilwara in Rajasthan too)

Bhils, I assume from Rajasthan, most famously fought with Rana Pratap in Battle of Haldighati (and other battles).

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 19 Feb 2010 10:23

rkirankr wrote:^^ That rules out Sabarimala in the south then? Not to offend anyone. I always thought shabari was from the region of MP, however sabarimala angle is new to me.
Klausji or anyone, can you get some more details on whether the the sabarimala is linked to Shabari. I only find some travel related links where one mentioned that the hill is named after Shabari who did severe penance.

King Rajasekhara of Pandalam was a Brahmin by name Vijaya in his previous birth. Vijaya had no issues. So he went to sage after sage and prayed to bless him with progeny. At last he went to Sabari of Ramayana fame. Sabari gave him a pot, asked him to go north from her ashram and when he reached a particular spot on a hill side asked him to go west, down the slope of the hill until he came to a rivulet and when reached there to fill the pot with water and pour it on his own head. He did as directed, as he poured the water on his head the pot slipped down from his hand and broke to pieces. As he stood there wondering what to do, a boy appeared before him and asked him what he wanted. Vijaya by intuition knew that the boy who stood before him was none other than the Lord himself. So he told the boy. "You should be my son" the Lord said "be it so". In due course Vijaya was born as king Rajasekharan of
Pandalam.

Lord Dharma Sastha had a curse that he should undergo human sensitude for a period of twelve years. So after obtaining Lord Shiva's permission Dharma Sastha lay on a sand bank in the river Pamba with a bell tied around his neck. When king Rajasekhara of Pandalam; went to that spot for hunting, the king picked up the child and handed him over to his queen on his return from hunt. He was named Manikantan. The child was in Pandalam for a period of 12 years in human sensitude.

Pandalam is a town in Pathanamthitta district, however during those times it was taken to represent the entire kingdom from the Western ghats to the Arabian sea (including parts of modern day Kollam and Kottayam districts also). There is a legend that Pandalam was named after certain Pandya warlords who migrated from Madurai and ruled these areas.

Sabari's ashram by default is said to be located close to the Sabarimala summit, so the directions given by Sabari to Vijaya are quite accurate in pointing the exact location on the banks of the Pamba river.

There is another version where Lord Ayyappa is named Manikantan after he is found with a Maanickyam (ruby) around his neck instead of the bell. The Maanickyam indicates that Lord Ayyappa is Lord Shiva's son (with the Maanickyam being the representation of Shiva's cobra), hence Manikantan!

The Guru taught Manikanta and initiated HIM into all Abhyasams was one named Vijaya. Vijaya had a deaf and dumb child. At the request of the Guru's wife, that Manikanta should set right his child; HE sprinkled some water over the child and anointed it. The child started hearing and talking. This incident perhaps shows that the Lord descended on earth to cure mankind of physical maladies also. Leaving Pandalam He went to the forest where he was joined by HIS parivarams such as Dwaparan and Kaduvaran (Vavar and Caduthai) It was the month of panguni, the day on which the Uthram star was ascendant.
Mahishi was perpetrating atrocities in heaven. The Lord went there, caught Mahishi by the herbs and flung her down on earth. Her body fell on the bank of the River Alasa, now called Azutha. The Lord came down and started dancing on the body. It is said that Lord Shiva and Parvathi came on their riding bull and halted at a place called Kalaikatti, from there to witness " Mahishi Mardhanam" destruction of evil in this world.
Having initiated king Rajasekhara into Gnana Yoga, the Lord shot an arrow to show him the spot where to construct the shrine, to install HIM. The king could follow the course of the arrow with his mental eyes. The arrow flew past Sabari Peedam and struck against a peepal tree.

Sabari was a huntress who reached dizzy heights in the spiritual plane by Guru Bakthi and service of Guru along. Poet Valmiki has assigned to her a very exalted position in the Ramayana. Lord Dharma Sastha is said to have raised her to the state of Nirvana.

So, the Lord descended on earth to destroy evil, to undergo human servitude for 12 years, teach Gnana Yoga to people like king Rajasekhara, to fulfill his promise to the Brahmin Vijaya to be his son, to teach erring mankind, that the only Dharma they had to do was to seek refuge in HIM and to raise Sabari to the state of Nirvana.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 20 Feb 2010 08:52

ramana wrote:Is there a good commentary on SriChakram?

Ramanaji, here is one link.
http://www.kamakotimandali.com/srividya/srichakra.html

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 20 Feb 2010 10:20

rkirankr wrote:^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabari
From the above link
Shabari was a hunter's daughter[1] and belong to the Bhil tribal community.
Where are the Bhils found?

Dangs forest, Gujarat

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2010 01:45

JwalaMukhi,
Thanks, ramana

http://indianmythologytales.blogspot.com

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 24 Feb 2010 12:41

Bhils are the tribes of central india and just not limited to dangs of gujarat.

Bhils were the mainstay of great maharana pratap's army

http://www.ecoindia.com/tribes/bhils.html

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 24 Feb 2010 15:12

Yet another record of Hanuman's birth claims that he was born on the Anjaneya Hill at Hampi, Karnataka. This spot near the Rishyamukha mountain is located on the banks of the Pampa river and is said to be the spot where Lord Rama and Sugreeva first met. There is still a temple here to mark that very spot.

The Rishyamukha mountain is knwon in Ramayana for three aspects:

1. Vali fought and killed a demon Dundhubi and hurled the asura'a corpse, this fell on the Rishyamukha mountain and the blood of the corpse started dripping over the Sage Matunga who was in deep meditation at this time. Enraged, Matunga uttered a curse that whoever committed the murder of the asura shall have his head blown into a thousand fragments if he set foot on Rishyamukha. Hence Vali could never appraoch this place.
2. Due to 1, Sugreeva could hide at Rishyamukha mountain with the knowledge that Vali would not be able to appraoch and harm him. This is where he camped, along with Hanuman and Angada. This is also the place where Rama meets Hanuman disguised as the ascetic AFTER meeting Sabari.
3. Since Sabari served Sage Matunga as his disciple at his ashram on this very mountain, it can be safely assumed that Sabari's ashram was not very far away from Sugreeva's abode. The location of the Pampa river puts these 2 locations firmly in South India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangamoola

The Pamba River has been venerated as Dakshina Ganga (The Southern Ganges), and devotees of Lord Ayyappan believe that immersing oneself in the Pamba is equivalent to bathing in the Holy Ganges River. Bathing in the river, believed to absolve one's sins, is a requirement before commencing the trek through the forest to the Ayyappan Temple atop Sabarimala.

Also, there is a hill called Gangamoola in Karnataka which is the origin of the Tunga and Bhadra rivers, it is possible that one of these rivers was called Pampa in ancient times (due to the common Dakshina Ganga nomenclature), hence it is quite possible that this episode of Ramayana took place in Karnataka/Kerala.

However, this still does not explain the Bhils and their location. It is quite possible that Sabari was a Bhil by birth but did not want the lifestyle of the Bhils and so she ran away to serve Sage Matunga, hence she would'nt share the heritage of the Bhil community or the Bhil's homelands.

From wikipedia:

The night before her marriage, she saw that thousands of goats and sheep were brought by her father, which were going to be sacrificed for the marriage dinner. Moved by compassion, during the early hours of the morning, she renounced the world and ran away to meet a Master. After days of traveling, she met Sage Matanga at the foot of the Mountain Rishyamukha and accepted him as guru, serving him with devotion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Feb 2010 00:00

An article on Telugu Mahabharatam

QUOTE
Mahabharata in Telugu Literature

By Dr.Sonti Venkata Suryanarayana Rao

The very first literary work in Telugu literature, Andhra Mahabharata which appeared in the mid 11th century, forms the best introduction to classical Telugu poetry. Since it is the earliest version of the great Epic in modern Indian languages, it has helped in the publication of the standard edition of Mahabharata by the Bhandarkar Institute in Poona�. Kannada has two earlier versions but they are adaptations making Arjuna or Bhima the central figure. A still older Tamil version is said to be unavailable today. The Andhra Mahabharata is not merely the earliest but the best work in the language by literary standards. Moreover, this large early literary work serves as an authority for grammar and usage even today and the three member team who could bring it into chaste and polished Telugu diction that could be easily understood by the average reader, are called the �Trinity of Telugu literature (Kavitrayam). The first poet Nannaya Bhattu left it abruptly in the middle of the Aranya Parva, probably due to death or political reasons. His patron, Raja Raja Narendra (1019-1061)� of the Eastern Chalukya dynasty, was, by a strange coincidence, engaged in fighting for his throne with his half-brother throughout his life and Nannaya was his �Kulabrahmana� or spiritual advisor. They had to seek the help of his maternal uncle, Rajendra Chola in the South. The great literary undertaking was therefore, of topical interest. Even otherwise, herioc tales appeal to the Andhras and Udyotana (ca. 892), a prakrit poet mentions them in his work, Kuvalayamala as being constantly engaged in warfare. Tikkana Somayaji resumed the work in the 13th century from Virata parva onwards and completed the Telugu version. The unfinished portion in Aranya parva stands in the name of Errapragada (early 14th century) who was an equally eminent poet.

In their Telugu version these poets have not attempted a literal translation. Instead of being a chronicle as in the hands of Vyasa in Sanskrit, they adopted the kavya or poetic style and by skillful abridgement reduced its size to nearly one half of the original by omitting repetitive passages and for brevity in expression. Nannaya for instance, performed a major poetic surgery by omitting Bhishma�s long eulogy and enumeration of Krishna�s earlier Avataras in the Rajasuya-Sisupala Vadha episode and made it quite crisp and dramatic. Tikkana required only 70 verses to convey the message of Bhagavadgita in Bhishma Parva. Anomalies in characterization were also �rectified� in the Telugu version. Some modern critics have however, questioned such freedom in the translation of the national epic. Since they had to rely on contemporary manuscripts it is difficult to criticise their work.

Another interesting feature easily discernible even to the average reader is the basic difference between the earlier portions of Nannaya and the latter work of Tikkana. Nannaya adopted the narrative style and his diction is more Sanskritised than Tikkana's. But Nannaya's verses run smoothly and sound more pleasing to the ear with internal rhyme and rhythm obtained by the happy choice of the consonants (Consonance) unsurpassed by any other poet. Moreover his Sanskritised version is sometimes more easily understood than Tikkana's poetry in a more colloquial diction, many times due to deceptive style and syntax. Not withstanding the general admiration for Nannaya who commenced the exercise, Tikkana who completed the work is ranked higher by the later poets and critics for his dramatic and more vigorous style and skill in characterisation. He scores over his predecessor in imagination, versatility and spirited expression. In Stree parva for instance, he employed forty five metres probably to vivify the ghastly scene after the horrendous Armageddon. His translation is quite realistic even in other portions since he came from a family of administrators, warriors and poets. He was himself the Prime Minister of a small Chola kingdom at Nellore ruled by Manuma Siddhi (1248-1263). He is generally known as Tikkana Somayaji, probably for performing a great Yagjna. His military prowess is not known but his father was a 'Dandanatha' (Warrior). His military background helped him to clear the confusion regarding the 'Vyuhas' (battle formations) of Kurukshetra in the Sanskrit original. He completed the translation of Mahabharata, like Milton, after retiring from public life after his patron's death. Like the first poet, Nannaya's patron Raja Raja Narendra, Manumasiddhi was also at war with his cousins and on one occasion Tikkana had to lead a large embassy to the great Kakatiya Emperor, Ganapati Deva (1198-1262) at Warangal to seek his help in recovering the kingdom. Like Dante's confident use of the regional dialect and idiom, Tikkana's preference of colloquial Telugu helped in the growth of its language and literature. Errapragada, the third poet who took up the left-over portion of Aranya parva was also a gifted poet who bridged the gulf between the styles of his predecessors quite successfully, He lived under the patronage of the Reddi kings in the early 14th century and he had other notable works to his credit like Harivamsam which is considered an addendum to the Mahabharata. The well known story of king Nala and Damayanthi is a good example of Nannaya's style in translation while Tikkana took special interest in Virata parva which is more elaborate in his hands compared to the original. The famous story of Savitri can be read in Errapragada's translation.

In addition to the well known translation of Telugu Mahabharata, a critical edition of which was published by the Osmania University, Hyderabad, giving reference to the Bhandarkar text of the national epic, there is some evidence of another early translation probably in the 11th century itself by one Atharvanacharya. Only a handful of verses are extant from his work today even upto the Karnaparva, there being no plausible reason for the loss of this version. Nannaya and Atharvana are said to be bitter rivals and two grammar texts discovered later are ascribed to them.

A fresh translation of the Mahabharata was undertaken around 1600A.D., again by a team of three poets, Battepati Thimmayya, Bala Saraswati and Atamakuri Somana. These poets adopted the 'Dwipada' metre (rhymed couplets in tetrametre). This later translation has also been preserved carefully; and, the Andhra University, Waltair took up its publication. Scholars and critics have not found any literary value in it, although at times, it is more elaborate and reads well. A more recent study shows that it is not totally devoid of literary elegance. A prose translation by Kaluve Veera Raju which appeared hundred years later (ca 1700) had better success. He was the army chief under Chikka Deva Raya (1672-1704) of the Mysore Kingdom. Jaimini Bharata which is also popular all over India for the Aswamedha parva, is also available in Telugu. Pillalamarri Pinaveerabhadra Kavi, one of the eminent classical poets (ca 1485) rendered it into Telugu during the heydays of the Vijayanagara empire. The prose version of Jaimini Bharata is by Samukham Venkatakrishnappa, court poet of the Naik Kings at Madura in the early days of the 18th century.

In addition to the translations of the whole work, several kavyas have been written by eminent poets on different episodes like Draupadi Swayamvara or Subhadraharanam. Leaving these learned works apart, the real impact of the Mahabharata on the cultural life of the common people in Andhra can be judged by the host of ballads and songs in vogue as folk literature like Nala Charitra, Devayani Charitra, Dharma Raja's game of dice, Keechakavadha, Savitri Charitra Padmavyuha, Matsyagandhi-Parasara episode etc. In addition to Subhadraparinayam, the most popular Mahabharata theme in Andhra is Sasirekha Parinayam. According to legend, Balarama had a daughter, Sasirekha (called Surekha in northern India) on whom Abhimanyu had a strong claim since crosscousin marriage is quit frequent in Andhra and even obligatory in olden days. When Balarama arranges for her marriage with his disciple Duryodhana's son, Krishna plays a trick with the help of Ghatothkacha to unite the lovelorn cousins.
{This was pictureised in Telugu as Mayabazar and was a super hit film. Later it was re-made in Tamil. Many years later I found that Mayabazar was made in Hindi during the 40s and the later Telugu version was close to it!}

The story of Mahabharata translation into Telugu is incomplete without mentioning a fresh modern translation, single handed by a very eminent poet, Sripada Krishnamurthy Sastry (1866-1960) of Rajahmundry, the very city where Nannaya took up the task in the 11th century. It was a laudable attempt since he wanted to offer a verbatim translation of the whole epic to the Telugu people. Unfortunately the new version is yet to gain acceptance for two reasons. Traditionalists are guided by outmoded literary standards and younger poets like neither old themes nor long poems.

A great resource:

http://mahabharata-resources.org/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2010 22:29

Last year Kaushal garu gave a talk in Northern California on the Indian calender and its accuarcy with a lot of math description of palnetary motion.

FRONT PAGE | Monday, March 1, 2010 | Email | Print |

Indian calendar more accurate, say experts

Rakesh Ranjan | New Delhi

Weather changes on Holi eve

As the festival of Holi is set to colour the people with joy and the bliss of nature, the festival has, as always, marked the end of the winter’s chill. The festival is determined, according to the Hindu calendar, more accurately than the English calendar, wherein “the festivals and seasons are arbitrarily fixed”. As the astrologers point out, the Hindu calendar or the Vikram Samvat are more accurate in determination of the Indian festivals, as it follows the annual weather cycle and the periodical movement of the Sun and Moon.

As experts say, the Indian calendar is ingeniously based on both the Sun and Moon and it uses a solar year but divides it into 12 lunar months. A lunar month has 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 3 seconds. Twelve such months constitute a lunar year of 354 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes and 36 seconds. On the other hand, the Western calendar is based on the Sun, in which a year is the time required for the Earth to complete one revolution around the Sun. This precisely measures 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes and 46 seconds. This, according to the Indian or the Hindu calendar, led to the occurrence of the Holi festival ten days in advance as compared to the previous year when Holi was celebrated on March 11. Notably the Holi will be celebrated on March 1 (Monday) this year.

Astrologer and spiritual counsellor Bharat Bhushan Padmadeo said that the Indian calendar has an appropriate rhyme with the nature. “The Indian calendar is based on the distance between the Sun and Moon and the periodical movement of the planets. It is also based on the annual weather cycle that matches with the festivals,” Padmadeo said.

He, however, said that unlike the Indian calendar, the seasons and the festivals in the English calendar are arbitrarily fixed. The Hindu calendar on the other hand corresponds to the seasons. At the same time the seasonal influence lead to the determination of weather condition.

Padmadeo further informed that the zodiacs keep on shifting in the Indian calendar and hence occurrence of the seasons and the festivals depends on the position of the zodiacs. “Zodiac is the ring of constellations that lines the ecliptic, which is the apparent path of the Sun across the sky over the course of a year,” he said and added that the Moon and the planets also lie within the ecliptic that determine the occurrence of months and seasons. In the Indian calendar, seasons follow the Sun, months follow Moon, and days, both the Sun and Moon, he added.

Another astrologer Vijay Pathak said that the Hindu calendar determines the seasons and festivals more accurately than the western calendar. Pathak said that since the Indian calendar follows the annual weather cycle, it has six seasons in the year, unlike the English calendar, which sees only three seasons. “There are six seasons in Indian calendar — Basant, Grishma, Varsha, Sharad, Hemant and Shishir,” he said, adding that Basant season marks the beginning of the Hindu year. Pathak, however, said that the change in weather conditions during a given time in the year depends on the seasonal influence.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Mar 2010 21:48

X Posting

ramana wrote:GD for you!

http://news.discovery.com/animals/snake ... saurs.html

Meet:
"Sanajeh indicus, meaning "ancient-gaped one from the Indian subcontinent."

Also check out the Hast eagle story.

Dileep wrote:
ramana wrote:That snake must be the ancestor of the pythons and all such swallowing kind. Wonder how the boas evolved? That monster reminds one of the snake (Nahusha) in Mahabharata that wrapped up Nala.
It was kaarKOTaka who bit, not wrapped up, naLa. nahusha was a king who was elevated into indra's chair, got arrogant, and got cursed by sage agasthya into a snake.

The snakes of bharathiya mythology are:

anantha: firstborn, and rightful king of snakes, but he chose to serve lord vishNu as his bed. Has thousand heads.

vaasuki: second born, and king of snakes. Lent himself as the rope to churn the ocean of milk, and produced kaaLakooTa, the strongest poison in all 14 worlds.

thakshakan: angry younger brother. normally called on as a tool of curse. Bit and killed king pariikshith, heir of paaNDavaas.

kaaLiya: evil brother, who got his arse whupped by little krshNa, and got reformed.

kaarkkOTaka : brother who turned nomad. Stuck in wildfire, and saved by naLa. Bit him in gratitude, so that the kali who was residing inside naLa could be ousted.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2010 09:36

A blog on Chanakya and Gandhiji

http://ancientindians.wordpress.com/200 ... -gandhiji/

Note Telugu book "Arya Chanakya" by Vedula Suryanarayana Sarma.

Our RamaY will give us a synopsis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Mar 2010 01:24

A blog on tribute to
Sri Kota Venkatachalamgaru.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Mar 2010 01:43

Great Ramana-ji!