Bharat Rakshak

because we love our India.

If you study Islamic history from early beginnings in Arabia to modern times in UK US and France its a three step process:mosque, jihad and then caliphate.

All places have this sequence. Some times fast, a lot of times slow.

ramana wrote:If you study Islamic history from early beginnings in Arabia to modern times in UK US and France its a three step process:mosque, jihad and then caliphate.

All places have this sequence. Some times fast, a lot of times slow.

A modern day description of the Somali Al Shabab group is classic

An insight into Somalia's al-Shabaab rebel group
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a ... 366335.ece

What is al-Shabaab's goal? The overriding motivations of the hardline leaders are more ideological than political. With support from foreign jihadis, they view themselves as custodians of Islam. They see Muslims as being in a perpetual state of war with the “infidels,” hence the affiliation with al-Qaeda. Other leaders lower down the hierarchy have strictly national ambitions.

Islam at its core speaks of the need to be at war with infidels. War is suffering and suffering is war. A suffering dying population in a state of flux is always most ready for war. They die of hunger or disease anyway. That is how Somalia and Pakistan cannot develop and are always ready for war. Islam can start war, but cannot stop war. The need to wage war always lies beneath the surface. The usual excuse is "Oh - but that is true of all faiths" The hidden lie is that the war in islam is against anyone who is non islamic first and later against anyone who is not "pure". The only people who do well in an Islamic state are well armed despots. They invariably drink, have vigorous sex lives and live like kings among warring serfs. Check out Paki army generals. Somali warlords. Saddam. The Gulf sheiks have the money to bribe their population into accepting their lifestyles and wealth. If you are Islamic and really clever - you know all this but you do not say it. You go right ahead and use Islam for your benefit.

shiv wrote:A modern day description of the Somali Al Shabab group is classic

An insight into Somalia's al-Shabaab rebel group
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a ... 366335.ece

What is al-Shabaab's goal? The overriding motivations of the hardline leaders are more ideological than political. With support from foreign jihadis, they view themselves as custodians of Islam. They see Muslims as being in a perpetual state of war with the “infidels,” hence the affiliation with al-Qaeda. Other leaders lower down the hierarchy have strictly national ambitions.

....Islam can start war, but cannot stop war. The need to wage war always lies beneath the surface... The usual excuse is "Oh - but that is true of all faiths" The hidden lie is that the war in islam is against anyone who is non islamic first and later against anyone who is not "pure".

It hinges on how one understands Surah 109 - "Al-Kaafiroon". Its a short Surah, just 6 ayats, and a popular candidate for recitation during collective prayer:

1. Say, "O disbelievers,
2. I do not worship what you worship.
3. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
4. Nor in future will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
5. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
6. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

That's it. This Surah can be interpreted primarily in an ontological sense, which is fine, even when it still leads to a collective society. But if a political interpretation is primary, then communal warfare is only a matter of time.

Shahi Bukhari - accepted by all clerics - makes the interpretation clear. It is political and military. Quran "did not say extreme stuff" bad guys "interpret it wrongly" is a deception - because the ahadith are not rejected simultaneously. Moreover it onlee implies that the Quran itself did not have statements that rule out "extreme interpretations". Wherever the Quran is "confusing" the trusted hadith collection are acknowledged to be clarifiers. Because people are even more ignorant about the ahadith, they swallow this propaganda.

Is there a concordance of which hadith was recalled by which person?

There appears to be - like Ayesha mostly recalls issues dealing with women - or her comments were edited so. But the real issue is that since Bukhari is almost universally accepted, what he puts in his collection stands as reliable - irrespective of "who" recalls it in the ahadith.

It will still be useful to know who recalled which hadith originally.

ramana ji,
I am not sure whether quoting the surahs in full and connecting them to ahadith, with recallers identity - is going to border on discussing "scriptures". Maybe then we should have it within GDF.

But non-Islamist scholars have always been faced with the "comprehension" problems of most of the Quran as a stand alone text. In this, Islamist apologists also face immense problems because if parts and bits of the Quran has to be explained away by contextual reference to specific historically claimed events [to make it more palatable or acceptable as propaganda for changed world scenarios] then what prevents other parts of Quran also from being only references to specific historical events and not a guide to all future actions?

Ahadith therefore are inseparable from the Quran. Only in the context of specific historical "action" of Muhammad the person, can the confusion of the Quran be resolved. As many people have tried to say - there are some passages which are dubious in terms of whether they actually urge violent jihadi action or not against unbelievers/infidels/hypocrites -but who do not quote the many other surahs flanked by explicitly violent urges in other surahs. In fact the surah quoted just above is followed by one that is an explicit condemnation and vitriolic hatred against someone who was a kin and apparently one of the most prominent "disbelievers".

But if historical action remains relevant for a text that claims future guiding role, then those specific historical actions become the model for future actions - and it cannot be claimed that those specific historically claimed actions will not be repeated in methodology, essence and form in the future again.

brihaspati wrote:Ahadith therefore are inseparable from the Quran. Only in the context of specific historical "action" of Muhammad the person, can the confusion of the Quran be resolved. As many people have tried to say - there are some passages which are dubious in terms of whether they actually urge violent jihadi action or not against unbelievers/infidels/hypocrites -but who do not quote the many other surahs flanked by explicitly violent urges in other surahs. In fact the surah quoted just above is followed by one that is an explicit condemnation and vitriolic hatred against someone who was a kin and apparently one of the most prominent "disbelievers".

But if historical action remains relevant for a text that claims future guiding role, then those specific historical actions become the model for future actions - and it cannot be claimed that those specific historically claimed actions will not be repeated in methodology, essence and form in the future again.

brihaspati garu,

Perhaps one needs to build an encyclopedia of Qu'ran, using

• Surah
• Preceding and Following Surahs
• Ahadiths as inline summaries of relevant portions
• Hyperlinks to relevant Ahadiths
• Historical context as summaries
• Hyperlinks to Historical Events and Analysis
• Commentary by Islamic and non-Islamic Scholars on the Text
• References to this commentary
• History of use of these interpretations of Surahs by Islamists and Jihadists to exhort other Muslims from mosques and seminaries in a particular direction, and to justify their actions.

All this translated in various languages.

This is to make the taqiyya used by Muslim moderates defunct, who tend to use some Surah here and there, to project possibly a false image of moderation.

One possible benefit of this exercise would be for liberal societies (and for cultural marxists) to lose the fig leaf they use to justify the compatibility of Islam with Liberal Societies. The Liberal Society, the Political Class, and Constitutional experts in Liberal Society should be allowed to make an assessment whether Islam is compatible, and as such Muslims who live in Liberal Society should be allowed to follow their religious beliefs; or whether Islam is an antithesis, and may even need to be banned, it being a political manifesto of subversion and terrorism.

Here I would say, that as the constitutional experts of Liberal States have not yet made that determination as yet, it is an open question, but the question can be put to the Supreme Court of United States, or to the Supreme Court of India, or to the Bundesverfassungsgericht in Germany, etc., by an ordinary citizen, that his fundamental rights in the state are threatened by 'the policy of harboring Muslims' by the state.

The question is whether a legal case can be made through such an encyclopedia of Islam!

In the Mohammadden majority nation of Indonesia, Christian Dhimmi’s are stopped from building a Church as the street on which the Church is proposed to be built is named after “a noted Islamic Ulama”:

Churches Can’t Be Built in Streets with Islamic Names: Bogor Mayor

The Mohammadden holy month of Ramadan / Ramzan acts as no deterrent to violence in Yemen which sees a pair of suicide bombings:

Suicide Blasts Kill 11 Tribesmen in Yemen

I have been a lurker on BR for the longest time possible(perhaps 2001?). I signed up to post the below information which is too good to not share with everyone.

A comprehensive and dispassionate analysis on how to defeat Islam in a non-violent fashion(yes, it is possible).

http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2011/03/h ... ently.html

Regards

Rajagopal.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/cairo ... -to-k.html

Surely we'll hear this has been "taken out of context." "Islamic scholar: Every Muslim has right to kill Zionists," by Roee Nahmias for YNet News, August 23 (thanks to Twostellas):
Islamic scholar Dr. Salah Sultan issued a religious decree according to which it is permissible to kill "any Israeli on Egyptian land, in response to the killing of Egyptian soldiers near the border with Israel," Egyptian Al-Shuruq newspaper reported on Tuesday.
Sultan is a lecturer of Muslim jurisprudence at the Cairo University. In the decree, he ruled that "every Muslim who meets a Zionist is entitled to kill him, after Israel killed 'Camp David'. The Egyptian people do not distinguish between Egyptian and Palestinian blood," he ruled.

Bomb attack targets Buddhist Monks in Southern Thailand which has seen renewed Mohammadden Terrorist violence since 2004:

Published: 23/08/2011 at 04:14 PM ………………….

Nine soldiers, one monk and three civilians were wounded by a bomb explosion on Pak Nam road in Pattani's Muang district on Tuesday morning, police said.

The attack occurred about 7.15am as 15 soldiers from Pattani Task Force 25 were escorting Buddhist monks and novices returning to Lak Muang temple after collecting alms.
As they walked past an untended push cart which had been used for selling fried chicken during the Muslim fasting period, a home-made bomb built into a 5kg cooking gas cylinder was detonated remotely by a radio.

Two soldiers were seriously wounded in the explosion. Pvt Sathit Chanlao, 22, was injured in the head and body, and Pvt Kaokhom Paipod, 22, in both legs and the body. They were admitted to Yala hospital.

Seven soldiers and a monk sustained minor injuries.

Three nearby women - Prom Na Rangsi, 46, Wandee sae Nguan, 46, and Roseyati Makasem, 25 - also received minor wounds……………………………….

Bangkok Post

RajeshA wrote: brihaspati garu,

Perhaps one needs to build an encyclopedia of Qu'ran, using

• Surah
• Preceding and Following Surahs
• Ahadiths as inline summaries of relevant portions
• Hyperlinks to relevant Ahadiths
• Historical context as summaries
• Hyperlinks to Historical Events and Analysis
• Commentary by Islamic and non-Islamic Scholars on the Text
• References to this commentary
• History of use of these interpretations of Surahs by Islamists and Jihadists to exhort other Muslims from mosques and seminaries in a particular direction, and to justify their actions.

All this translated in various languages.

This is to make the taqiyya used by Muslim moderates defunct, who tend to use some Surah here and there, to project possibly a false image of moderation.

One possible benefit of this exercise would be for liberal societies (and for cultural marxists) to lose the fig leaf they use to justify the compatibility of Islam with Liberal Societies. The Liberal Society, the Political Class, and Constitutional experts in Liberal Society should be allowed to make an assessment whether Islam is compatible, and as such Muslims who live in Liberal Society should be allowed to follow their religious beliefs; or whether Islam is an antithesis, and may even need to be banned, it being a political manifesto of subversion and terrorism.

Here I would say, that as the constitutional experts of Liberal States have not yet made that determination as yet, it is an open question, but the question can be put to the Supreme Court of United States, or to the Supreme Court of India, or to the Bundesverfassungsgericht in Germany, etc., by an ordinary citizen, that his fundamental rights in the state are threatened by 'the policy of harboring Muslims' by the state.

The question is whether a legal case can be made through such an encyclopedia of Islam!

There are already some moves. Piece by piece the waters are being tested on legal grounds. There is too much enmeshed western [which includes Chinese] financial interest networks with the Islamist establishment - which will allow a concerted effort to scuttle the encyclopaedic effort as a target focus.

Rajagopal ji,

Welcome to BRF as a contributor!

Thanks for sharing that link. I had a look inside, and it was indeed very 'informative'!

The on-going month of Ramadan / Ramzan seems to have been no deterrent to the Islamic Terrorist group Boko Haram carrying out a suicide bombing targeting the UN in Nigeria. Neither would it seem the fact that the suicide attack was carried out on Friday which is the Mohammadden Sabbath:

Suicide Bomber Attacks U.N. Building in Nigeria

The on-going month of Ramadan / Ramzan seems to have been no deterrent to the Islamic Terrorists carrying out two suicide bombings targeting the Cherchell Military Academy in Algeria. Neither would it seem the fact that the suicide attacks were carried out on Friday which is the Mohammadden Sabbath:

Deaths in suicide attack at Algeria base

Report on Islamophobia in the US:
http://www.salon.com/news/islam/index.h ... bia_report

A_Gupta wrote:Report on Islamophobia in the US:
http://www.salon.com/news/islam/index.h ... bia_report

How do you define Islamophobia?

Wajahat Ali: We define it as an exaggerated fear, hatred and hostility toward Islam and Muslims that is perpetuated by negative stereotypes resulting in bias, discrimination and the marginalization and exclusion of Muslims from American social, political and civic life.

Define exaggerated!

The best approach to fighting Islamophobia is to ban history books, news reports and residence in Muslim neighborhoods. Then there will be no Islamophobia.

the origins of rising Islamophobia in the United States to what they call a "small, tightly networked group of misinformation experts guiding an effort that reaches millions of Americans through effective advocates, media partners, and grassroots organizing."

The report features profiles of some figures -- blogger and activist Pamela Geller and think tank denizen Frank Gaffney -- who will be familiar to regular Salon readers. It names Gaffney and four others as the leading "misinformation experts" who generate anti-Muslim talking points that spread in the media: Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum; David Yerushalmi at the Society of Americans for National Existence (who is also the architect of the anti-Shariah movement); Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch; and Steven Emerson of the Investigative Project on Terrorism.

What new information are you reporting about of the funding of these groups?

Clifton: We found that seven primary donors gave about $42 million over 10 years to eight groups promoting Islamophobia. For example, the second biggest donor is Richard Scaife and his foundations in Pittsburgh. He contributed nearly $8 million to the network, including to the Center for Security Policy, which is Frank Gaffney' group, and to David Horowitz's Freedom Center. The seven donors are: Donors Capital Fund, Richard Mellon Scaife, the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Newton D. & Rochelle F. Becker foundations and charitable trust, the Russell Berrie Foundation, the Anchorage Charitable Fund and William Rosenwald Family Fund, and the Fairbrook Foundation.

Folks now you know it. These guys better watch their backs. Thanks for exposing!

Islamophobia has an odd meaning in the United States. My posts about Nabi Fai and his links to Dan Burton are routinely deleted at such sites supposed anti-Islam as Atlas Shrugged.

These sites have no problem proclaiming Obama a Muslim. But post that Grover Norquist (who seems to run the Republican Party here) has a Muslim wife and he himself may have converted and you will see your posts deleted and your IP banned.

The shrillest responses come when you post links to Ronald Reagan comparing self-proclaimed Islamic freedom fighters in Afghanistan to the American Founding fathers or that Reagan dedicated a space shuttle to these 'warriors'. Posters who want no mosques built anywhere in the US suddenly say that terrorists don't represent Islam and Islam was a religion of peace.

A cynic would suggest that these "Islamophobic" sites real mission is to turn attention away from the price the US has paid for its ties to Islamic fundamentalism.

arun wrote: Suicide Bomber Attacks U.N. Building in Nigeria

Investigators probing Nigeria UN attack.

Asked about the Nigerian Islamist sect known as Boko Haram, he called it "a local group linked with terrorist acts and we as a government are working to bring it under control".

A man claiming to be a spokesman for Boko Haram said in a phone call to an AFP journalist that the group carried out Friday's attack.

The veracity of his claims could not be confirmed and police said all possibilities were being considered.

The sect has not previously been known to target international organisations, but there have been growing concerns over whether it has formed links with extremist groups outside of Nigeria, including al-Qaeda's north African branch.

The building houses some 26 UN agencies and departments, with hundreds of employees with a variety of nationalities believed to have worked there.

It was among the bloodiest attacks targeting the United Nations globally.

Shariah Abolished for Greek Muslims

According to an article of the Greek newspaper “Eleftherotypia”, under the scope of reforms in the Greek Family Law, the Shariah will be abolished for Greek Muslims.

This Muslim law establishes among others the right of polygamy and gives only to men the right to divorce their wives which constitutes a problem for the women in Thraki, Northern Greece. Even in Turkey, this law was abolished in 1926.In addition, this law does not comply with the Greek constitution which establishes the equality of Greeks regarding the application of the laws and the equality of men and women. The National Committee on the Human Rights considers that the Shariah does not protect minorities but abuses the rights and values of all the Greek Muslims.

It is also announced that the family and hereditary relations of all Greek citizens will be regulated by Greek Laws. Thus, the Mufti will only be religious leader of Greek Muslims and will no longer have judicial authorities.

All sane people and all sane nations must abolish Sharia.

The on-going month of Ramadan / Ramzan seems to have been no deterrent to the Islamic Terrorists carrying out two suicide bombings in Russia. Neither would it seem the fact that the suicide attacks were carried out on Eid al-Fitr / Eid ul Fitr which is one of Mohammaddenisms principal festivals.

I do not recollect previous Mohammadden Terrorist acts on the day of Eid / Id proper. Is this the first Islamic Terrorist attack to be carried out on the day of Eid / Id proper

Seven killed in Chechnya suicide attacks: officials

The actions of Islamic Terrorists in Chechnya, Russia are mirrored in the actions of Islamic Terrorits in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

X Posted from the TSP thread.

ArmenT wrote:BBC Link for the IED in Quetta.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14727621

Reports 5 dead, dozen injured. Apparently a bunch of other cars in the lot caught fire as well and some houses are damaged.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have set a new bench mark in painting the Mohammadden religion as not being a catalyst for fostering a yearning for Peace in the heart of its adherents by a demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan on the Mohammadden holy day of EID ul Fitr.

Yes today, Wednesday August 31st, has been declared to be EID ul Fitr in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, barring off course Khyber Pakhtunkhwa which likes to celebrate EID on a different day:

Eidul Fitr today

Mass brawl at theme park after Muslim women are banned from going on rides unless they remove their head scarves
http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20154
Poaks doing Poakra things in da Video.

X Posted from the TSP thread.

Yet another Mohammadden Sabbath of Friday is commemorated with violence fuelled by differences in interpretation of Mohammaddenism.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan what appears to be Shia Mohammadden retaliation for the Sunni Mohammadden hit targeting Shia’s / Shiite’s on Thursday:

Gunmen kill 4 in northwest Pakistan

By the CNN Wire Staff

September 2, 2011 -- Updated 1039 GMT (1839 HKT)

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- Gunmen opened fire Friday on a passenger vehicle in northwest Pakistan, killing four people, a government official said.

The occupants, all Sunni Muslims, were traveling to Kurram district when the incident occurred, said Naseem Khan, a government official.

The attack is believed to be in retaliation for an ambush a day earlier on a minivan carrying Shiite Muslims, Khan said. …………………………………….

CNN

Meanwhile the co-relation between violence and Fridays has not gone unnoticed in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

An article dated August 31 titled “Exploring the fault lines” in Dawn had the following to say on the matter of the citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan indulging in violence on the day of the Mohammadden Sabbtah:

Exploring the fault lines

by Murtaza Haider on August 31st, 2011 ……………………..

For Muslims, Friday is the day of prayer. It is the day when Muslims are asked to forgo commerce and join others in a congregational prayer. Yet, Friday has become the most violence prone day in Pakistan. In 2010 alone, 43 per cent of the 1,547 victims of bomb blasts were killed on a Friday. In Balochistan and Punjab, Fridays accounted for almost 60 per cent of all bomb blast-related deaths.

The article was accompanied by this graphic drawn on data compiled by the South Asian Terrorism Portal:

X Posted from the Islamic Sectarianism thread.

Sunni Muslims banned from holding own Eid prayers in Tehran

M. Steven Fish, "Are Muslims Distinctive?: A Look at the Evidence"
Oxford Uty Press, U.SA | 2011 | ISBN: 0199769214 | 408 pages |

Are Muslims Distinctive? represents the first major scientific effort to assess how Muslims and non-Muslims differ--and do not differ--in the contemporary world. Using rigorous methods and data drawn from around the globe, M. Steven Fish reveals that in some areas Muslims and non-Muslims differ less than is commonly imagined. Muslims are not inclined to favor the fusion of religious and political authority or especially prone to mass political violence. Yet there are differences: Gender inequality is more severe among Muslims, Muslims are unusually averse to homosexuality and other controversial behaviors, and democracy is rare in the Muslim world. Other areas of divergence bear the marks of a Muslim advantage: Homicide rates and class-based inequities are less severe among Muslims than non-Muslims. Fish's findings have vital implications for human welfare, interfaith understanding, and international relations.

X Posted from the TSP thread.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, self- claimed haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent, 8 die in Green on Green Sub-Sectarian violence pitting Sunnis of the Deoband school of Mohamaddenism against Sunni’s of the Barelvi School of Mohammaddenism:

Godhra Camp violence: Eight killed as two religious groups clash

X Posted from the Islamic Sectarianism thread.

Mohammadden pilgrims of the Shia / Shiite sect killed most likely by their own co-religionists of the Sunni Mohammadden sect in Iraq:

Iraqi police: Gunmen ambush Shiite pilgrims, killing 22

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Another three citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan sentenced for indulging in the Islamic Republic’s penchant for indulging in Islamic Terrorism.

AFP via Google:

Three Pakistanis plead guilty to US terror charges

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... efits.html

Some Asian families in Britain are having too many children in order to claim extra welfare payments, Britain’s first female Asian peer claimed last night.

Baroness Flather accused the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities of failing to adopt the values of British society and said they should have their benefits slashed.

^^^ Isnt the Baronnes of Indian origin? I think she is Sir Ganga Ram's great grand daughter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganga_Ram

Off course!! our own Ganga Ram of mangatawala who created the whole 200 square km. of barren land and converted it into greatest land of punjab through his engineering skills. This land was renamed as "district of Montgomery" i.e. Gen. Montgomery of the second world war fame.

Then when Pakistan was created they renamed it as "Sahiwal" so!! our great hero of Punjab is losing his name!! Sir Ganga Ram (as british named him) was one of the greatest sons of Punjab!! quote from wiki


He designed and built General Post Office, Lahore, Lahore Museum, Aitchison College, Mayo School of Arts (now the National College of Arts), Ganga Ram Hospital, Lady Mclagan Girls High School, the chemistry department of the Government College University, the Albert Victor wing of Mayo Hospital, Sir Ganga Ram High School ( now Lahore College for Women), the Hailey College of Commerce, Ravi Road House for the Disabled, the Ganga Ram Trust Building on The Mall and Lady Maynard Industrial School.[1] He also constructed Model Town, once the best locality of Lahore, the powerhouse at Renala Khurd as well as the railway track between Pathankot and Amritsar [1]

He built Sir Ganga Ram Hospital, Lahore (1921), Lady Mclagan School and Renala Khurd Power House with his own money. Another hospital Sir Ganga Ram Hospital, Delhi was built in 1951.

Here is a quote about Sir Ganga Ram from wiki

A statue of Sir Ganga Ram once stood on Mall Road in Lahore. Saadat Hasan Manto, the famous Urdu writer, in one of his stories on the frenzy of religious riots of 1947 writes that an inflamed mob in Lahore, after attacking a residential area, ‘turned to attacking the statue of Sir Ganga Ram, the Hindu philanthropist. They first pelted the statue with stones; then smothered its face with coal tar. Then a man made a garland of old shoes climbed up to put it round the neck of the statue. The police arrived and opened fire. Among the injured were the fellow with the garland of old shoes. As he fell, the mob shouted: “Let us rush him to Sir Ganga Ram Hospital.” .[2]