AMCA News and Discussions

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 15 Apr 2011 01:37

Megh wrote:Photo from yesterday's flight of IL-76LL with Kaveri

Some pics here
[/b]

Thanks for posting this. Much appreciated.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Apr 2011 05:48

Megh wrote:Photo from yesterday's flight of IL-76LL with Kaveri

Some pics here

Thanks for posting

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Apr 2011 08:44

how I wish this kind of facility and expertise existed in bangalore, kerala.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 15 Apr 2011 11:39

With Japanese facing the worst disaster since hiroshima and nagasaki, this would be an opportune moment for India to offer Japan joint development of AMCA and ATD-X fighter. In other words merge these two aircrafts into one development program. For japan battling the financial mess post the earthquake+ tsunami +nuclear debacle, it would mean lower development cost. For India the advantages are obvious.

In fact we can offer them not only joint development of AMCA/ATD-X fighter but also the joint development and construction of the DDH-161 Hyuga/16DDH helicopter carrier. This carrier can help our IN/ICG in anti submarine warefare. But well that is the post for the Indian Naval thread.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 15 Apr 2011 12:23

Singha wrote:how I wish this kind of facility and expertise existed in bangalore, kerala.

HOpefully not long.
GTRE has been taking Kaveri to Anecom in Germany and Gromov . To make a proposal to the government, they need to find out what they need first. All this trips will help them learn the infrastructure better. With that they will be able to make a case.

That picture of the kaveri: the inlet area seems to significantly smaller...probably to simulate actual mass flow?

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 12 May 2011 10:19

Hey Guys.. I am a newbie and this is my first post (now second, after a self delete from FGFA forum) here... A quick questions for the jaani-jaans... If PAK-FA has indeed become a reality, the will India still develop an AMCA in parallel (which I believe will also be Gen-5)? And if we do, then won't that be a bit too-much of an overkill?

manum · Post by **manum** » 12 May 2011 11:04

mastaan wrote:Hey Guys.. I am a newbie and this is my first post (now second, after a self delete from FGFA forum) here... A quick questions for the jaani-jaans... If PAK-FA has indeed become a reality, the will India still develop an AMCA in parallel (which I believe will also be Gen-5)? And if we do, then won't that be a bit too-much of an overkill?

PAKFA is russian formulation of stealth fighter, however we participate in it we'll be only doing bit and pieces of it, or may be offer some suggestions and create avionics, some parts and body modelling in composites. But most of critical components will be Russian, if we like it or don't.
Only advantage of paying such huge money is we'll become copyright holder of the type, Our scope of work from PAKFA to FGFA will raise to 20% from 10%, and we'll be trainee in this project who gets the credits, This fighter will be known by world as a Russian origin fighter, India will be somewhere in subtext like a financier of the project. So PAKFA is not something we can boast our own (I mean something of Indian origin like LCA). Its an expensive insurance policy, very much likely to pay in future.

AMCA whereas is about going further from LCA designs, and creating our next generation fighter, which is totally Indian, made on Indian requirements,or how else we'll use the knowledge base of LCA we have generated.
Its all about growth of inherent Indian technology base, which can be only achieved by doing at home, as you don't get educated by only paying fees...AMCA will be ultimate step of independence of Indian industry to produce a potent stealth fighter, PAKFA or FGFA wont garner us the respect which AMCA will.

PAKFA is a non starter for Key Indian industry and our R&D, good of IAF though, whereas AMCA will entry to superpower bandwagon. It is not an overkill, if you really compare how China is growing. If we dont keep things balanced, we wont be left with face, they'll make sure they snatch it, and here we are talking about 2020 and things we have announced openly...Do you know today what China is upto? and what it'll be doing in 2020?...

Multatuli · Post by **Multatuli** » 12 May 2011 12:26

Good points Manum. Also, it has been suggested here that the FGFA will be more oriented toward air superiority while the AMCA fulfils the deep penetration strike aircraft requirement.

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 19 May 2011 12:53

manum wrote:
mastaan wrote:Hey Guys.. I am a newbie and this is my first post (now second, after a self delete from FGFA forum) here... A quick questions for the jaani-jaans... If PAK-FA has indeed become a reality, the will India still develop an AMCA in parallel (which I believe will also be Gen-5)? And if we do, then won't that be a bit too-much of an overkill?
PAKFA is russian formulation of stealth fighter, however we participate in it we'll be only doing bit and pieces of it, or may be offer some suggestions and create avionics, some parts and body modelling in composites. But most of critical components will be Russian, if we like it or don't.
Only advantage of paying such huge money is we'll become copyright holder of the type, Our scope of work from PAKFA to FGFA will raise to 20% from 10%, and we'll be trainee in this project who gets the credits, This fighter will be known by world as a Russian origin fighter, India will be somewhere in subtext like a financier of the project. So PAKFA is not something we can boast our own (I mean something of Indian origin like LCA). Its an expensive insurance policy, very much likely to pay in future.

AMCA whereas is about going further from LCA designs, and creating our next generation fighter, which is totally Indian, made on Indian requirements,or how else we'll use the knowledge base of LCA we have generated.
Its all about growth of inherent Indian technology base, which can be only achieved by doing at home, as you don't get educated by only paying fees...AMCA will be ultimate step of independence of Indian industry to produce a potent stealth fighter, PAKFA or FGFA wont garner us the respect which AMCA will.

PAKFA is a non starter for Key Indian industry and our R&D, good of IAF though, whereas AMCA will entry to superpower bandwagon. It is not an overkill, if you really compare how China is growing. If we dont keep things balanced, we wont be left with face, they'll make sure they snatch it, and here we are talking about 2020 and things we have announced openly...Do you know today what China is upto? and what it'll be doing in 2020?...

Well, it sounds good to hear all that.. But, I have two additional question.

1. We have not been able to completely make an indigenous aircraft... Even LCA runs on lots of imported parts like engines and I am sure some of avionics and other parts (Pardon my lack of knowlege)... So, what sense does it make to directly push for a 5th Gen fighter when I don't have the complete capability of a 4th Gen fight internally or it's engine? Aren't we first supposed to make LCA a better fighter so that our own IAF can find comfort in ordering it, establish it's capability by getting some export orders or even stabilizing the initial flaws that almost every new plane has and then looking ahead?

2. Above all, why tom tom about it publically? I thought such projects (if they really exist in a meaningful way) are supposed to be very secretive and countries announce them only after they have initial successes... Remember, all American technologies are tested under strong veil of secrecy F-117, F-22 et all or J-XX of china was a complete surprise... So, when I know that my programs in past have been a terrible examples of how to delay good projects, then why to advertise about such an ambitous and honestly, far fetched project?

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 19 May 2011 13:04

With the LCA, we have/will soon have handle on most other things except the engine. IAF has indicated it's preference for a 100% desi engine on more than one occasion.

Does the study cover engine requirements and means to achieve it locally? Any links to what will be covered in the study phase of around 18 months will be greatly appreciated.

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 19 May 2011 16:12

2. Above all, why tom tom about it publically? I thought such projects (if they really exist in a meaningful way) are supposed to be very secretive and countries announce them only after they have initial successes... Remember, all American technologies are tested under strong veil of secrecy F-117, F-22 et all or J-XX of china was a complete surprise... So, when I know that my programs in past have been a terrible examples of how to delay good projects, then why to advertise about such an ambitious and honestly, far fetched project?

We are a nation that believes in non violence (Ahimsa!).
Let our adversaries know our capabilities.
If they try to mess with us... its their choice..

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 19 May 2011 16:35

Kanishka wrote:
2. Above all, why tom tom about it publically? I thought such projects (if they really exist in a meaningful way) are supposed to be very secretive and countries announce them only after they have initial successes... Remember, all American technologies are tested under strong veil of secrecy F-117, F-22 et all or J-XX of china was a complete surprise... So, when I know that my programs in past have been a terrible examples of how to delay good projects, then why to advertise about such an ambitious and honestly, far fetched project?

We are a nation that believes in non violence (Ahimsa!).
Let our adversaries know our capabilities.
If they try to mess with us... its their choice..

Well, luckly, I am blessed to be from the same nation... But, I don't agree with you... Defence services and Ahimsa don't go hand-in-hand... Telling enemy that you will develop huge capabilities in future and that too militarily is actually counter productive and we are the only country in the world that does it and then fails miserably at our promises... and it takes away the surprise... So, let me know if there is a valid justification otherwise this is nothing but a crappy overzealous strategy of DRDO and MoD... and I am sick of them opening their mouth on such sensitive issues...

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 19 May 2011 17:39

We made a mistake of starting Tejas after Marut after a huge gap of time. Lot of experience/expertise built up during Marut was lost. Mastaan what you are suggesting is to repeat that mistake again!

We have now experience of designing the fighter aircraft with fbw etc. and now the next step is to design one with Fly by Light FBL system.

As for engine, we have another 7 years to improve Kaveri for AMCA + another 10 for AESA. Post 2030 it'll be our most advanced Jet.

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 19 May 2011 19:03

Manish_Sharma wrote:We made a mistake of starting Tejas after Marut after a huge gap of time. Lot of experience/expertise built up during Marut was lost. Mastaan what you are suggesting is to repeat that mistake again!

We have now experience of designing the fighter aircraft with fbw etc. and now the next step is to design one with Fly by Light FBL system.

As for engine, we have another 7 years to improve Kaveri for AMCA + another 10 for AESA. Post 2030 it'll be our most advanced Jet.

For a minute also, I am not suggesting to stop the good work. All i have a problem is, is with these glorified statements that we make in press... Why do that when you are working on a sensitive futuristic initiative... Plus, I am not inferring that we should stop working on 5th generation.. But, what I wanted to submit was, let's first complete the first step convincingly and then use that success as a fundamental platform for the next level... Here we don't even have a convincing first step and MoD has to intervene and request IAF to order some sqadrons... Talking about working on 5th Gen sounds like fan boy stuff ...

It's not only Kaveri, which is the issue... which again is being tested in Russia (if I am not mistaken?) and I don't even know if you can simply use the stronger version of the same engine or start building a new one... eg. for F35, US is building a whole new engine (P&W), when they literally have a formidable inventory of existing engines... We will need much stronger avionics, AESA (as you rightly put), understanding of strong body composites, frame designs, weapon systems and finally installation... Today we have absolutely NONE of it for a 5th Gen level. And, by your own admission, if all this is to happen between 2020 and 2030... Why brag about it today?... is all I am saying

Do it and show it... Why cry out loud and make a fool of yourself in front of the whole world?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 May 2011 19:25

mastaan, the only one I can see crying out loud is you, MOD et al have to announce the projects publicly as part of their day to day functioning, the public has a right to know what their money is being spent for. I am sure you are quite impressed by the J-xx media circus but trust me there is absolutely zero virtue in wasting effort and resources over keeping something ultra-secret.

you, my dear is the one who is behaving like a fanboy, coupled with your self declared lack of knowledge (and should I add understanding) means you are making statements that makes the rest of us cringe. I strongly advise you to read up, start with the list of reading material at the start of LCA thread and in the meantime lurk around the forum.

manum · Post by **manum** » 19 May 2011 19:36

mastaan wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:We made a mistake of starting Tejas after Marut after a huge gap of time. Lot of experience/expertise built up during Marut was lost. Mastaan what you are suggesting is to repeat that mistake again!

We have now experience of designing the fighter aircraft with fbw etc. and now the next step is to design one with Fly by Light FBL system.

As for engine, we have another 7 years to improve Kaveri for AMCA + another 10 for AESA. Post 2030 it'll be our most advanced Jet.
For a minute also, I am not suggesting to stop the good work. All i have a problem is, is with these glorified statements that we make in press... Why do that when you are working on a sensitive futuristic initiative... Plus, I am not inferring that we should stop working on 5th generation.. But, what I wanted to submit was, let's first complete the first step convincingly and then use that success as a fundamental platform for the next level... Here we don't even have a convincing first step and MoD has to intervene and request IAF to order some sqadrons... Talking about working on 5th Gen sounds like fan boy stuff ...

It's not only Kaveri, which is the issue... which again is being tested in Russia (if I am not mistaken?) and I don't even know if you can simply use the stronger version of the same engine or start building a new one... eg. for F35, US is building a whole new engine (P&W), when they literally have a formidable inventory of existing engines... We will need much stronger avionics, AESA (as you rightly put), understanding of strong body composites, frame designs, weapon systems and finally installation... Today we have absolutely NONE of it for a 5th Gen level. And, by your own admission, if all this is to happen between 2020 and 2030... Why brag about it today?... is all I am saying

Do it and show it... Why cry out loud and make a fool of yourself in front of the whole world?

when your son, daughter, nephew, niece makes a piece of art...why does he/she runs to show it to you or any elder who's appreciation matters.

and the things you do not know about, necessarily are things not happening, you know what, we have collaborated with Japan for its 6th gen fighter...who's first prototype flew last months on 19th...do you know that? do you know Kaveri has been selected as its engine?

manum · Post by **manum** » 19 May 2011 20:59

nukavarapu wrote:
manum wrote:you know what, we have collaborated with Japan for its 6th gen fighter...who's first prototype flew last months on 19th...do you know that? do you know Kaveri has been selected as its engine?
manum sir, with all due respect, can you provide a source? The above statement is not that easy to digest without a source!

its top secret...not to be shouted out to world, even the link is top secret...

sarcasm imbedded

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 19 May 2011 22:12

mastaan wrote: For a minute also, I am not suggesting to stop the good work. All i have a problem is, is with these glorified statements that we make in press... Why do that when you are working on a sensitive futuristic initiative... Plus, I am not inferring that we should stop working on 5th generation.. But, what I wanted to submit was, let's first complete the first step convincingly and then use that success as a fundamental platform for the next level... Here we don't even have a convincing first step and MoD has to intervene and request IAF to order some sqadrons... Talking about working on 5th Gen sounds like fan boy stuff ...

It's not only Kaveri, which is the issue... which again is being tested in Russia (if I am not mistaken?) and I don't even know if you can simply use the stronger version of the same engine or start building a new one... eg. for F35, US is building a whole new engine (P&W), when they literally have a formidable inventory of existing engines... We will need much stronger avionics, AESA (as you rightly put), understanding of strong body composites, frame designs, weapon systems and finally installation... Today we have absolutely NONE of it for a 5th Gen level. And, by your own admission, if all this is to happen between 2020 and 2030... Why brag about it today?... is all I am saying

Do it and show it... Why cry out loud and make a fool of yourself in front of the whole world?

I don't know whether you saw Vinod Dua reporting on NDTV the day Tejas got IOC. His words were:
"Agar aapko koi kahe ki usne Chakke a phir se avishkar kiya hai to aap usse kya kahenge? Jee haan bilkul yahi kaam kiya hai DRDO ne...........''
Translation: If you hear somebody has invented the wheel again what would you call him? Yes this is exactly what DRDO has done.............

Now this is the level of stupidity in DDM reporting in this country for the pride product of this country. Now all DRDO/IAF are doing is announcing the new techs which will go in the plane. I don't see any bragging anywhere. Please point to me any statement from them than gave you the idea. Please give the link here I would like to read it.

I don't know what's your problem with Kaveri being tested in Russia. When Swedes can be proud of their Gripen with american engine why indians have problems with Tejas and AMCA?

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 20 May 2011 12:03

Rahul M wrote:mastaan, the only one I can see crying out loud is you, MOD et al have to announce the projects publicly as part of their day to day functioning, the public has a right to know what their money is being spent for. I am sure you are quite impressed by the J-xx media circus but trust me there is absolutely zero virtue in wasting effort and resources over keeping something ultra-secret.

you, my dear is the one who is behaving like a fanboy, coupled with your self declared lack of knowledge (and should I add understanding) means you are making statements that makes the rest of us cringe. I strongly advise you to read up, start with the list of reading material at the start of LCA thread and in the meantime lurk around the forum.

Hi Rahul,

Appreciate the perspective and I am sure you know more than me (simply by looking at the bohemian mail score in front of your name is enough for me). I will definitely read up and try to become more informed of this stuff so that I can have a more informed conversation around specific topics.

However, I do disagree with you on the issue of secrecy. Secrecy on such issues can give you a killer advantage, if you are working to develop stuff indigenously. I speak of this from experience. More than a decade ago, I worked as a summer Intern in a civilian nuclear reactor (Not sure if names should be taken) working on an electronics project. This was after the sanctions had hit us after the Pokharan blasts. We were developing a special sensor and we needed some heavy resistors for that, in the range of 4G ohms (in a nanonized form), which we could not have manufactured in India. While it was for civilian and study purposes, because of sanction we were not able to get it for a nuclear installation (and mind you this reactor has scientists from all over the world sitting around the reactor and doing various experiments).

Can you believe how we got it? Requested it as a component for a science project and to ensure that we get enough of it, we had some multiple science project based request from more than a few colleges from India to US. It was such a small component that the Cap-ex for making this indigenously was not justified and would have taken a couple of years at least. By being smart about it, We got enough of stock to last us a few years.

My point being... You need lots of electronic and other gadgetary that is clearly a small but critical component and you cannot build it without lots of unjustifiable Cap-ex investment and years of study... One can procure these components easily if the exact end use of the components is not know, else you will be surprised as to how these circuits suddenly become out of stock or start to come under restricted items, as soon as others realize that this can be used to make a better AESA or a better pilot console...

No country in the world has the best of the abilities in everything (including US) and these tricks always come in handy... It was only with this intention that I highlighted the need to keep some stuff secret, for which you can justify the use to the taxpayer in future years after the project succeeds. Dark projects in US have a specific reason behind them and we are no exception.

On the fanboy thingie, I just couldn't appreciate how after such announcements, some of us were jumping up and down as if AMCA is parked right outside and we have arrived on the world scale (some here and some on other forums)... And that is my personal opinion, arguably very subjective... Cheers!

mastaan · Post by **mastaan** » 20 May 2011 12:17

Manish_Sharma wrote:I don't know what's your problem with Kaveri being tested in Russia. When Swedes can be proud of their Gripen with american engine why indians have problems with Tejas and AMCA?

Oh, I am sorry if I gave that feeling that I have a problem with Tejas... I am so proud of that achievement, but at the same time, I am fully aware that we do need to cover some more tough yards to make it a success that we have envisaged it to be. I am also confident that we will get there and pretty soon too!

However, I would still submit that we are zillions kms away form AMCA and that is how I want to feel till it comes out or till Mk II of Tejas delivers what is expected out of it and then we look ahead...

And, we are not Swedes. We are a bigger country with much bigger aspirations. So that comparison is immaterial to me. I do have an issue if we say that an American engine is running one of my country's fighter planes and they can stop the flow of parts when they want to! And I don't know how Swedes look at it... I just don't believe that the plane is indigenous, when some main components of the plane (engine and ...) are imported... Till then it will be a 'mostly Indian' plane with some main components imported... Why can't we accept that simple fact?

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 20 May 2011 13:21

Mastaan ji, it is not that we cant maintain secrecy. Nobody was able to get proof of strategic programs like Sagarika, Arihant, Nirbhay or various UAVs that we were testing - till very close to the program success.

Rahul's point is that whether it is pertinent to invest so much money and care to maintain secrecy. Those who cant have a 5th gen fighter (e.g Pakistan,Srilanka) wont bother to compete, those who do (US,China) wont bother - as we are no threat to them.

And since India got associated with PakFa, our enemies would have already factored stealth in their military planning. AMCA is not bringing to the table what FGFA is not. So there is no "surprise".

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jun 2011 21:59

incidentally, the US navy has a 5gen replacement for superhornet in the works (NOT F-35) called the NGAD and it's in the same weight class as the AMCA.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... xt-ge.html
features,
9G, excellent A2A performance, about 40,000 pounds. it is expected to enter service around 2015, which is when the AMCA is expected as well.

the model displayed by boeing looks very similar to the old tailless MCA concept.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 08 Jun 2011 23:07

Rahul M wrote:incidentally, the US navy has a 5gen replacement for superhornet in the works (NOT F-35) called the NGAD and it's in the same weight class as the AMCA.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... xt-ge.html
features,
9G, excellent A2A performance, about 40,000 pounds. it is expected to enter service around 2015, which is when the AMCA is expected as well.

the model displayed by boeing looks very similar to the old tailless MCA concept.

So, will you support this "optionally" manned fighter concept as something worthy for AMCA to consider? Given the fact that FGFA, would be a heavy fifth gen fighter and will provide the necessary fifth gen assets for SEAD missions in our likely enemy spaces?

Does it not make sense to jump to the next level and explore an unmanned medium weight fighter? Give the project more "realistic" time frames to get to IOC, say around 2025?

I think you have a typo in your post on the date for the NGAD and if you mean AMCA for 2015 - aap ke muh mein ghee shakkar (or your favorite sweet) but i think you meant 2025?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jun 2011 23:12

yep that's a typo, I meant 2025.

re unmanned aircraft, AURA is in the works and it is very likely that both AMCA and LCA would eventually feature unmanned versions.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 08 Jun 2011 23:30

ShauryaT wrote:
Rahul M wrote:incidentally, the US navy has a 5gen replacement for superhornet in the works (NOT F-35) called the NGAD and it's in the same weight class as the AMCA.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... xt-ge.html
features,
9G, excellent A2A performance, about 40,000 pounds. it is expected to enter service around 2015, which is when the AMCA is expected as well.

the model displayed by boeing looks very similar to the old tailless MCA concept.
So, will you support this "optionally" manned fighter concept as something worthy for AMCA to consider? Given the fact that FGFA, would be a heavy fifth gen fighter and will provide the necessary fifth gen assets for SEAD missions in our likely enemy spaces?

Does it not make sense to jump to the next level and explore an unmanned medium weight fighter? Give the project more "realistic" time frames to get to IOC, say around 2025?

Shaurya, you have hit the nail right on its head. It is entirely possible that there might not be a 6th generation manned fighter. Rather we are at an inflection point, where unmanned drones may take over the major functions of fighters, thus liberating the fighter from its weakest link, humans. This will be the next revolution, the last being introduction of jet engines or introduction of stealth, depending on ones view point.

India should be ambitious and try to reach for the stars. Start a parallel unmanned fighter project.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jun 2011 00:02

Is that tailless cranked delta or arrow?

manum · Post by **manum** » 09 Jun 2011 00:17

if there are so many simultaneous development of unmanned fighters...then I am sure soon things will kick start in new layout i.e.
fighter which is manned-unmanned both and only unmanned fighters...

and only unmanned would mean new layouts which need not have that bulge in front representing retention of cockpit imagery...So why not two nations or group of nations like EU...or India and Russia, uk and france...doing a research where one is already jumping to next to next of the types, while also developing what is next i.e. manned looking unmanned fighter...

wont it cut the risk a bit, or EU thought on similar lines with EF and would never repeat that again?

or we'll see at least 5-6 types of same age designs...in 2020...

just a observation...

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 09 Jun 2011 09:07

re dual manned - unmanned makes a lot of sense, as it will have the disadvantages of both without the advantage of either. Me thinks we need to have separate manned & unmanned programs ... my 2 naya paise.

manum · Post by **manum** » 09 Jun 2011 09:34

dual manned-unmanned aircraft, will only be a stage where unmanned fighter aircraft can be be perfected...it'll generate a lot of logistical backup, while also saving us from redundancy of all the knowledge we have generated making manned aircraft...the middle stage can be called transition phase between manned and unmanned...

The investment in the knowledge of what is what and how it works has been immense, no one can easily take a back step and start a new thing, that is why I said We can start a dual program, one having a longer layout while other for immediate future, while both complimenting each other...

Will · Post by **Will** » 09 Jun 2011 10:29

Any further news on the US sixth gen concept? There was news sometime back that requirements were being firmed up. Is this going to be unmanned or dual.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jun 2011 22:54

I missed this fantastic artist work here earlier - old article:

http://defencenews.in/defence-news-inte ... new&id=246

I really like the rear stealthy looks and cruise mode intakes, but I don't understand that artists thoughts on the front dark mattered lerx?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 22 Jun 2011 23:09

^^
Nothing to understand here. It seems like an artist's attempt to make a badass "looking" fighter. It does not look as if the artist intended to make a technically feasible design.

raajneesh · Post by **raajneesh** » 22 Jun 2011 23:46

This design is looking KICKASS! Its looking far better than both raptors and Pak-Fa. I liked the rear squarish panels coverings given above engines.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Jun 2011 01:00

raajneesh wrote:This design is looking KICKASS! Its looking far better than both raptors and Pak-Fa. I liked the rear squarish panels coverings given above engines.

Uh..that's a fanboi image. Recall the similarly space-age designs of the PAK-FA that surfaced regularly before the actual version was unveiled.

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 23 Jun 2011 01:11

http://defencenews.in/defence-news-inte ... new&id=246

" The ADA will commence research and development on the six-generation AMCA aircraft very shortly. "

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Jun 2011 01:24

That article is full of DDM. The only country, AFAIK, that is looking at sixth generation aircraft (and they have just started a feasibility study) is Boeing to replace the Super Hornet.

A test flight of 2017 of the AMCA may not be achievable when the project has just started.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Jun 2011 03:00

Rakesh wrote: A test flight of 2017 of the AMCA may not be achievable when the project has just started.

Don't say that Rakesh sir ... we have a lot of things in place ... a lot of the other things will be developed for the FGFA.

Let's stop giving excuses for slipping up right from the get go. We have to push. If the civil society in India lets go of the "chalta hai" attitude, we would be the fastest galloping horse of the 21st century.

A flying prototype by 2017 is achievable and DRDO/ADA/HAL should be answerable if they don't. I am not speaking of IOC. start testing the airframe with the first prototype, much like the PAKFA and our very own LCH, Arjun MKII. If Kaveri is not mature by then, fly the prototype with a foreign engine. ADA gave the 2017 dates. It is simple, either don't give dates, or stick to it.

Don't worry about bad examples, omens, possibilities, yesterday's chances. Freeze on a design, run it by the customer, develop the first cut. Get it on the field, iterate and refine later. The wonderful Siachen self-sustaining houses are a perfect example, aerostats is another good example. DRDO has done it in recent times, just needs to keep emulating that model.

like Nike says, JUST DO IT!

raajneesh · Post by **raajneesh** » 23 Jun 2011 03:14

nachiket wrote:Uh..that's a fanboi image. Recall the similarly space-age designs of the PAK-FA that surfaced regularly before the actual version was unveiled.

Yes, it looks like artist impression. Not official ADA's work. But still its better looking than any plane out there. Definitely worth for AMCA's stealth profile. It looks damn SOLID.

there is indeed some work going on 6th Gen. technologies..

shukla wrote:Plans for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft
The Hindu
.......
Once the funds were received after the submission of the feasibility report, the agency planned to develop two technology demonstrators and seven prototypes, he said. ADA was identifying technologies for 6 {+t} {+h} generation combat aircraft. Earlier, Mr. Subramanyam made a presentation on Technological Challenges in Future Fighter Aircraft at the Aviation Conclave which concluded on Saturday.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Jun 2011 03:53

That artists impression is not too far from the model at AI11. Seems like the artist has taken out the smooth curves and replaced them with facets. The top of the engine at the rear has more modifications. Other than that it is very close to models at AI11

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Jun 2011 04:25

^^^ I have to disagree with you on that sir ... it doesn't match the AMCA model at all ... other than it has two wings, two rudders, two engines and two elevators.

It is a waste of cycles on discussing this fanboy art ... All I will say is that it won't fly as well as it looks .... and pilot visibility, well the lesser said the better it is