J&K News and Discussion-2011

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 07 Mar 2011 10:44

^ It was Indian Army which defended the Kashmiri Population.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 08 Mar 2011 13:36

Acharya wrote:
sum wrote:X-posting from TSP thread:
Are we supposed to "win hearts and minds" of such lost causes who admire and are ready to lick boots for a country which kills more of their co-religionists every week than any other nation?
This is the same population which attacked the Pak forces in 1948 and defended themselves

It was not. Muslims of Maharaja Hari Singh's army had joined Paki invaders and killed numerous Dogra Hindu officers . A rag tag Kashmiri militia was indeed organised , but it was not involved in much fighting

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Mar 2011 09:45

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Mar 2011 10:58

sum wrote:Geelani backs out of conclave citing NSA's presence

In a letter to noted journalist M J Akbar, Editorial Director of India Today, Geelani expressed his inability to attend the March 19 session where he was to speak on future of Kashmir alongwith senior BJP leader Murli Manohar Joshi.

"I came to know that the session will be presided by National Security Advisor. That makes me unable to participate in view of our consistent policy of non-engagement with Government of India until it accepts our five-point demand," Geelani said in the letter.

The hardline leader was scheduled to take part in the breakfast session of the conclave on March 19 in Delhi where he and Joshi were the speakers with Menon in the chair.

In August last year, Geelani had announced his five-point formula which included asking Centre to acknowledge Kashmir as an international dispute, start the process of "demilitarisation", release political prisoners and take action against security personnel allegedly involved in the killings during the summer unrest.
Good riddance, must say...

I think the Operative word here is cowardice, fine to talk to India Hating A.Roy, Media and JNU crowd but when coming to a serious debate he has like many Paki supporters finally chickened out

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 09 Mar 2011 12:42

menon s wrote:
Concurrence of State Govt is enough as per clause (1) post Constituent Assembly ceasing to exist.
which means it can never be changed. We can rant and wail, thats it. I think its time to move away from the argument of Squashing Art 370.

In that case, J&K will be a special state forever and we will keep pouring Indian tax payers' money on valley for nothing...why have it then like "Sar pe bhoj"?..get rid of 'em and seal the border between Kashmir & Jammu+Ladakh with no lena dena..no trade...nothing....but but but china's dream of boxing India to south Asian region only will come true

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 09 Mar 2011 19:59

^ Get rid of Whom sir ?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 10 Mar 2011 07:20

Not upto "nationalist" standards, but a nice piece from Samar Halarnkar..

http://www.hindustantimes.com/The-few-t ... 71471.aspx#

Especially this part..

Srinagar boy Junaid Azim Mattu, a political analyst, has this to say: “Our radical-by-convenience leaders tell us that an amicable, acceptable and pragmatic resolution means a ‘sell-out’. Nothing short of a plebiscite ‘come what may’ are the charming proclamations that resound from safe houses and pulpits of righteousness. They speak of morals and integrity as they unabashedly bask in an accountability-free atmosphere of sensationalism and polemics, feeling little or no need to answer questions — where are we headed and how?”

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 10 Mar 2011 10:43

KMs shouldn't be viewed as a monolithic block of secessionists. Like any closed social group, the pressures to conform to community elders may make the youth appear to support secessionism. But I'm sure they aspire for good things in life for themselves and family that the rest of the country can enjoy. I think all attempts should be made to turn fence-sitters into loyalists.

However immature NC leadership is, we must be patient and strengthen their hands.

A systematic velvet glove campaign won't hurt things - eg. Gul Gulshan Gulfam type of serials with subliminal anti-secessionism messages.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 10 Mar 2011 13:02

Demystifying Kashmir
http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/10/demystif ... shmir.html

The panel of speakers was dominated by Indian academics, who collectively portrayed a scathing critique of “fraudulent uneasy peace,” “humanitarianism used to subjugate,” and, “heavy militarisation” by the Indian state in Jammu and Kashmir.

The intellectual masturbation, of the elites, while the poor jawans frets in cold.

Author of Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects: Islam, Rights and the History of Kashmir, Dr. Mridu Rai’s paper on “Folding Kashmir into Indian Imagination” attempted to take on the prevalence of “one narrative” in Indian society, a narrative dominated by the state line. Rai argued, “Kashmir should not be claimed through maps.”

Ironically, tensions that were foreseen in the opening speech did not breakout between Pakistanis and Indians on the stage or in the crowd, but between members of the audience from the Hindu-Pundit Diaspora who seemed very upset by the work of the speakers.

Pakistani Historian Ayesha Jalal also echoed Rai’s assertion. “It is not about religion, it has been made about religion by Pakistan and India.” Dr Jalal, who is currently a visiting professor at Tufts University, outlined her fascinating research that traces back the Kashmir and Punjab nexus, from 1931 to present-day. She showed how opinions have transformed in Punjab from wanting Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan, to wanting Kashmiris to decide their own fate.

That might be the opinion of pakistans left wing elites, who will not even fill one banquet hall at serena hotel,but nit the view of the Pakistan army.

partha · Post by **partha** » 10 Mar 2011 13:06

menon s wrote:Demystifying Kashmir
http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/10/demystif ... shmir.html
The panel of speakers was dominated by Indian academics, who collectively portrayed a scathing critique of “fraudulent uneasy peace,” “humanitarianism used to subjugate,” and, “heavy militarisation” by the Indian state in Jammu and Kashmir.
The intellectual masturbation, of the elites, while the poor jawans frets in cold.

Author of Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects: Islam, Rights and the History of Kashmir, Dr. Mridu Rai’s paper on “Folding Kashmir into Indian Imagination” attempted to take on the prevalence of “one narrative” in Indian society, a narrative dominated by the state line. Rai argued, “Kashmir should not be claimed through maps.”

Ironically, tensions that were foreseen in the opening speech did not breakout between Pakistanis and Indians on the stage or in the crowd, but between members of the audience from the Hindu-Pundit Diaspora who seemed very upset by the work of the speakers.

Pakistani Historian Ayesha Jalal also echoed Rai’s assertion. “It is not about religion, it has been made about religion by Pakistan and India.” Dr Jalal, who is currently a visiting professor at Tufts University, outlined her fascinating research that traces back the Kashmir and Punjab nexus, from 1931 to present-day. She showed how opinions have transformed in Punjab from wanting Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan, to wanting Kashmiris to decide their own fate.
That might be the opinion of pakistans left wing elites, who will not even fill one banquet hall at serena hotel,but nit the view of the Pakistan army.

You got to give it to these Paki liberals. They can't bring about a minute change in their country but sure can interfere with internal issues of India.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 10 Mar 2011 14:43

can anyone clarify this - historical narrative, is it true?

A major event of Maharaja Ranbir Singh's reign which could have changed the whole course of history of Kashmir was the collective approach of Kashmir Muslims to him for being taken back into the Hindu fold. They pleaded that they had been focibly converted to Islam against their will and were longeing to re-embrace their ancestral faith.
Ranbir Singh sought the guidance of Swamy Dayanand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj, in the matter. Swami Dayand advised him that he could take them back in Hinduism after performing certain rites.
The proposed return of Kashmiri Muslims to their original faith was not to the liking of short sighted Kashmiri Pundits who were having a hey day since the return of Dogra Hindu rule. They tried to dissuade the Maharaja. When they found him adamant they took to a subterfuge. They filled some boats with stones and brought them midstream before Maharaja's palace on the Jhelum. They threatened him that they would commit suicide by drowning along with the sinking boats as a protest against his decision to take back Muslims into Hindu fold and that he would be then guilty of "Brahm Hatya" i.e. murder of Brahmins.
Ranbir Singh was a brave soldier. But he could not muster courage to face the crafty Brahmins, who were out to misinterpret the Vedic "dharma" for their selfish ends. The plan of return of Kashmiri Muslims to Hinduism thus fell through.
Later developments in Kashmir culminating in the en masse forced exodus of Kashmir pundits from the valley appears like the nemesis which has hit them for their un-Brahmin and myopic attitude at that crucial juncture of Kashmir's history.

is it true or is it a propaganda!

Hari Singh-----------The breaking point, however was brought by his speech at the first Round Table Conference in London in 1930 in the course of which he said: "While Indian Princes valued British connection, they had full sympathy for the aspirations of their motherland for an equal and honorable place in the comity of nations." To that end they had recourse to the convenient method of building up popular "Muslim" pressure on communal basis. This led to the beginning of a socio-religious movement in the State which provided the religio- political background of the events which culminated in the emergence of the Kashmir problem in its present form.

I know the British has exploited communal passions elsewhere, but did they do it Kashmir? Hari Singh in books ive read comes as a pompous fool, but here he is depicted as a person of courage, who took on the British, like the Gaekwads of Baroda. Can someone help me with veracity of this quote?

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 10 Mar 2011 15:31

i really do not think this is mere propaganda, this article was written, by Krishna Mehta, a Gandhian and the very first woman MP from Kishthwar ,j&k.

Her Book, Kashmir 1947 A survivors tale, The raiders who barged into Kashmir in October 1947 had more than territory on their minds. As they advanced, they left behind them a trail of dead, many of them women who killed themselves to protect their honour. Krishna Mehta's husband was District Commissioner of Muzaffarabad, and he was away repelling the attack when the Marauders reached their home. Six children in tow, Krishna escaped to find safe shelter. Over the next few days and nights, hungry and thirsty, she and her family moved from one house to another, turned away from each by their hosts after a day or so for fear of the raiders. Finally the raiders caught up with them--and it was in captivity that Krishna realized the full horror of the situation. Yet, she never yielded. In the end, even her captors, pitiless thus far, were so moved by her spirit and dignity that they took it upon themselves to protect her, cutting across religious divides. Kashmir 1947 is a portrait of a woman fighting for survival in an extreme time. Set during the dark days in Kashmir when the state was under siege, it is a gripping account of courage and resilience, all the more fascinating and powerful because it is entirely true.

James B · Post by **James B** » 10 Mar 2011 18:26

JEM chief pig and his bodyguard culled in an encounter

http://www.hindustantimes.com/2-JeM-mil ... 71715.aspx

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Mar 2011 00:13

menon s ji,
that story should be reinvestigated. There is a similar story that goes around but much earlier [Sultanate period of Kashmir and onset of Mughals]. But this was about one segment of the KP having converted and having helped the non-converted to fly to safety [or protect]. They were supposedly refused to be let back into KP circle [social exchange - marriage etc].

However there is a tendency to float stories in case of Hindu-Muslim interactions that propose that it was the "Hindu" side that did something, some kind of atrocity, some behaviour or gesture that curiously contradicts only modern "humanitarian" values - or even invited - Muslim action that looks "traumatic". This was the case with the story of the "moral action" taken by Aurangzeb at "Viswanath" temple, which when traced back to source - ultimately leads to the existence of a supposed "respected Maulana" who claimed to read it "somewhere in some manuscript" which he promised to give to a "friend" but died before he could "give it"! So this current story could also be a fabrication - based on the ealier story - that was floated to show at one stroke how "insidious/narrow-minded/exclusive" KP are and hence how justified it is to carry ethnic cleansing against them.

The other side of the story of "Krishna" - is also a wonderful exercise in representing a possibly real core of the story, as something that ultimately shows the "essential humanity" of the Islamist raiders. This is a kind of conflation of equating both sides - Hindus and Muslims as "human" after all. The big problem here is that one such "story" when publicized can be use dto create the impression that this was a universal phenomenon, that this happened with all such "Islamist raiders". If we count the experiences of the refugees over-all from the various Islamist "actions" in the lead up to 47 and following, the overwhelming numbers will not show any such "ultimately and essentially human" behaviour. It is a characteristic feature of Islamist violence is that Islamist societies prove almost inevitably paralyzed when radicals/violents from among them start a jihad on non-Muslims, in sharp contrast to society wise mobilization when it becomes a call for "attack on Islam".

The second issue is that there are legitimate historical grounds for the non-converted "Hindus" to deeply fear re-accepting converted Hindus. Anyone with some balanced reading of history of Kashmir and north-India in general during the Islamist military dominance, should know of the various firmans and orders and actions by the Kashmiri Sultans and the Mughals which severely penalized intermingling in a social sense that would have reincorporated "muslims" back into Hindu fold [strict banning of Muslim girls being married by Hindu men - and those who did were either forceed to convert or face executions and othera ssociated penalties on the family and the community].

This is where people should "get real and know life and smell the coffee" - about the reality of Islamic rule and its impact in shaping Hindu social attitude. Once ingrained into collective social attitudes - it takes a very long time to change.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 11 Mar 2011 02:26

A gut-wrenching story.

Srinagar authority kills dogs to check menace

Would officially sanctioned cruelty of this kind this be possible in any other state in India? Is it acceptable in Srinagar because dogs are considered "najas" as per the tenets of "Kashmiriyat"?

I remember a story a few years ago when Central security forces hunting terrorists were hampered by dogs whose barks would alert terrorists. Even in those circumstances, the solution employed was to feed the dogs food that would simply make them drowsy for a bit, not kill them.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Mar 2011 05:08

^^^ What exactly would you expect different from a self-confessed marxist from the socialist republic, eh?

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 11 Mar 2011 05:14

Ajatshatru wrote:ManishH on 21st Feb 2011 wrote:
Heck, if a fraction of all the money these blackguards have collected for the various rath-yatra kar-seva etc. was given to VDCs, we'd have smothered and overrun the separatists in the valley.
ManishH on 10th March 2011 wrote:
However immature NC leadership is, we must be patient and strengthen their hands.
Now that you have made your political affiliation/loyalty amply clear by some of your posts in the past few days, I am curious to know how 'we (who all are you including in this 'we' anyway?) must be patient and strengthen their hands' (and how does one, according to you, go about it i.e. strengthening NC's hands)? And, why should 'we' strengthen NC's hands, anyway?

Also, patient for how long (time frame) and moreover, strengthen their hands for what purpose? To prevent hoisting of Indian flag in Lal Chowk, OA to be made PM of Kashmir, continuous policy of mollycoddling KMs and/or some KMs demand for so called Azaadi or perhaps NC vision of a sell out of Kashmir by their harebrained schemes/visions of jointly managing Kashmir along with TSP etc?

Ajatshatru Ji - There's no political affiliation I have. I just advocate well known dictum of Iron Hand and Velvet Glove. My objective is to dilute secessionism and increase no. of loyalists. To meet the above objective, the iron hand tactic is resettlement of KPs and folks from rest of India into J&K etc. whereas velvet glove tactic is to keep striving to turn the youth of valley into loyalists. It is well understood that hardliners cannot be turned into loyalists - so that's futile.

Please don't misunderstand my intentions. As you know anyone with political motives in India goes and fights elections, not post in fora

Regarding NC - well we have to accept they are immature and just trying to perpetuate dynasty rule. At the same time, the guy at least salutes the national flag and they have given their daughter to someone from outside the valley. So we have to forgive some stupidities of NC in the short term. If there was some other broad based party that could have >= NC's degree of loyalty to us today, I'd say the same thing for them. As respected VajpayeeJi would have said, we should listen to anyone who's talking respecting Indian constitution.

I welcome any disagreement with the tactics I propose, so by default I assume non one is included in 'we' unless they explicitly express agreement. But kindly do not suspect my motives.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 11 Mar 2011 05:45

Maybe they were initially but looks like all's fine now. That's often true of marriages across communities anywhere in India. A precedent towards integration is set.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 11 Mar 2011 06:05

menon s wrote:TODAY, IT has another chance to turn Kashmiris’ attention back towards democratic self-expression. This is in the panchayat elections scheduled for next month. But this time it is the Omar government that is bent upon sabotaging democracy. Not only has it refused to incorporate the 73rd amendment of the Indian Constitution (which mandates five-yearly election, a guaranteed devolution of funds and an elective leadership of panchayat bodies) into the Kashmir Constitution, but it has persuaded the Centre that the elections should be held on a non-party basis and the state government should retain the right to nominate the heads of the elected panchayats and zilla parishads.

Kashmiris know only too well that the purpose of a non-party election is to conceal the support that various parties enjoy among the people. They also know that by retaining the right to nominate the heads of panchayat bodies, the National Conference (NC) will retain control of the loot of developmental funds that has been the hallmark of that benighted state.

In short, like the rigged elections of the 1950s, ’60s and ’70s, the panchayat elections will also be a farce. The NC will retain its zamindari and New Delhi is so frightened by the prospect of Kashmir going out of its control that it will let the NC do whatever it wants so long as it keeps Kashmir in line.

How come hardly anybody is questioning this farce.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 11 Mar 2011 07:04

Ajatshatru wrote:Menon S wrote:
which means it can never be changed. We can rant and wail, thats it. I think its time to move away from the argument of Squashing Art 370.

Generally speaking, some of the articles you quote, some of your posts as well as some of your (loaded) questions/queries (e.g. 'can anyone clarify this - historical narrative, is it true'? or 'is it true or is it a propaganda'!) at first glance may seem innocuous enough on the surface....but I cannot shake of this feeling that you may be working with some clear preordained agenda. I can't put my finger on to what exactly it is right now but scratch the surface and dig a bit deeper and there may be more to it than meets the eye....hmm....

Yes Sir, i have a pre ordained agenda and that is not to follow anyone or anything without myself being fully convinced about it. Thank you for the concern.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Mar 2011 07:20

menon s wrote:
Ajatshatru wrote:Menon S wrote:

Yes Sir, i have a pre ordained agenda and that is not to follow anyone or anything without myself being fully convinced about it. Thank you for the concern.

You have every right,but at whose expense?

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 11 Mar 2011 07:33

how many times will they kill sajad afghani?
look at two reports, one from rediff dating back to dec28/1999, stating the same guy killed during jail break, and an HT report that states he was killed in an encounter yesterday?
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/28afgani.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Jaish-mil ... qus_thread

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Mar 2011 07:48

menon s wrote:how many times will they kill sajad afghani?
look at two reports, one from rediff dating back to dec28/1999, stating the same guy killed during jail break, and an HT report that states he was killed in an encounter yesterday?
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/28afgani.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Jaish-mil ... qus_thread

and you have decided that they both are same...
their organisations were different, their posts different, aliases different

based on... your favorite websites. Dont worry its a secret between us

and google

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 11 Mar 2011 07:51

ravi im in Srinagar since yesterday, and thats the local sentiment expressed.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Mar 2011 07:52

menon s wrote:how many times will they kill sajad afghani?
look at two reports, one from rediff dating back to dec28/1999, stating the same guy killed during jail break, and an HT report that states he was killed in an encounter yesterday?
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/28afgani.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Jaish-mil ... qus_thread

They obviously are two different dead terrorists with the same name, did you check?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Mar 2011 07:54

menon s wrote:ravi im in Srinagar since yesterday, and thats the local sentiment expressed.

and you have agreed to that without thinking about the other side of story

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 11 Mar 2011 08:33

menon s wrote:how many times will they kill sajad afghani?
look at two reports, one from rediff dating back to dec28/1999, stating the same guy killed during jail break, and an HT report that states he was killed in an encounter yesterday?

It's common for the Pak-trained rats to use same names to show their inbred-ness eg.
search for Abu Huzaifa - you'll see one in '01 and one in '10.

Don't worry

they all inevitably end up with a hole in their head from the gleaming barrels of an INSAS.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Mar 2011 08:40

menon s wrote:ravi im in Srinagar since yesterday, and thats the local sentiment expressed.

Just curious but are you in Srinagar for a CPM sponsored Tiranga yatra since i recall you had mentioned that you would have loved it if "secular parties" like the CPM had organized a Tiranga yatra but felt depressed that a communal party finally did it?

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 11 Mar 2011 08:51

Remembering Rukhsana Kauser (KC) barely an article on women's day...
http://www.buzzintown.com/mumbai/articl ... -2862.html

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 11 Mar 2011 17:55

Sir, i refuse to be provoked. thank you.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 12 Mar 2011 03:26

sum wrote:
menon s wrote:ravi im in Srinagar since yesterday, and thats the local sentiment expressed.
Just curious but are you in Srinagar for a CPM sponsored Tiranga yatra since i recall you had mentioned that you would have loved it if "secular parties" like the CPM had organized a Tiranga yatra but felt depressed that a communal party finally did it?

Thank Marx that the likes of menon s are not "provoked". Without such people, BRF would be branded a "right-wing Hindu Nationalist forum".

Oh, and thanks to the sincere peace efforts of menon, the jihadis in "Cashmere, the only Muslim-majority state in Hindu-dominated India" will finally see the futility of waging war and renounce violence.

PS: OK, my last post on this.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 12 Mar 2011 07:39

Joint strategy on summer unrest: DGP

Director General of Police (DGP) Kuldeep Khoda said: "We want tourists to come to Kashmir, traders to carry out their activities as usual and, above all, smooth educational activities this summer to ensure that career of the students is not spoiled. Every possible measure would be taken to ensure this.'' It may be mentioned that police had been procuring laser guns, grenades, tear smoke shells and bullets from the BSF Academy, Tikanpur and Defence and Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which would temporarily make the protesters feel unrest and return home. This would ensure that there are no fatal casualties among the protesters.

On Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) militant Sajjad Afghani's killing in Kashmir yesterday, the DGP said, "the killed terrorist was not the one who was associated with Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) mentor Azhar Masood." Afghani, a close associate of Masood, was gunned down long back when he tried to escape from Kot Bhalwal Jail, he recalled. Referring to wages of Special Police Officers (SPOs), Mr Khoda said: "the Government has already sent a proposal for increasing their wages to the Union Home Ministry from Rs 3000 to Rs 5000 per month. ‘‘We are hopeful that the Centre would agree to the enhancement'', he said. It may be mentioned that wages to the SPOs are paid under the Security Related Expenditure (SRE).

POJK refugees threaten to march across to ancestral lands

Pak occupied Jammu and Kashmir displaced persons from Bhimber, Deva, Watala, Manawar Chhamb, Mirpur, Kotli, Poonch and Muzaffarabad have resolved to go back to their ancestral places in Pok on March 13. In a press statement, Rashpal Singh Chib, general secretary said that they will assemble at Panjtoot (Pallanwala) Akhnoor at 11 a.m. and cross over the LOC.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 13 Mar 2011 08:13

Five Kashmiris World Should Know.
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/bt/stor ... 10538.html

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 13 Mar 2011 08:17

Punish erring security forces in J-K: Brinda

CPI(M) leader Brinda Karat today said Centre should set up an independent and impartial commission to punish the "erring" security forces for allegedly killing 114 persons during the unrest in the Valley last year.

"We cannot talk about peace without delivering justice. The Government should set up an independent and impartial commission to bring the guilty personnel -- be it from the Army, paramilitary or police -- to book," Karat told reporters on the sidelines of the two-day women's conference organised by the Centre's interlocutors here.

Karat said punishing the "erring" personnel will create an atmosphere of reconciliation, which can act as the foundation for the dialogue process for political resolution of the Kashmir issue.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... da/761577/

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Mar 2011 09:19

SSridhar boss (and other senior members):

Can we have a list of 5 books which would give the members a complete and fair history of J&K? Like the TSP thread, we can include that list in the first post of every J&K thread. I ask this because this thread is frequently derailed by some posters who have very fertile imagination.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Mar 2011 09:49

menon s wrote:Five Kashmiris World Should Know.
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/bt/stor ... 10538.html

and most of them want to run away from the valley.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Mar 2011 10:42

abhishek_sharma wrote:Can we have a list of 5 books which would give the members a complete and fair history of J&K?

For modern history that led to the current problem, I would recommend the following:

The Untold Story of India's Partition - Narendra Singh Sarila, Harper Collins, 2005
(Complete book on British perfidy with two chapters dedicated to J&K)
Operations in J&K 1947-48, Ministry of Defence, Govt. of India, Natraj Publishers (The one and only authoritative source on all military operations in J&K)
Kashmir, 1947: Rival Versions of History, Prem Shankar Jha, Oxford India paperbacks, 2nd ed 2001
Tears to pieces Pakistan's fraudulent claims
War and Diplomacy in Kashmir, 1947-48, C.Dasgupta, Sage Publications, 2002
C. Dasgupta IFS, was a diplomat to PRC & EU. This is a superb book on British perfidy, Indian ineptidude and Pakistani fraud.
India, Pakistan and the Secret jihad: The Covert War in Kashmir 1947-2004, Praveen Swami, Routledge 2007.
Recommended to understand Pakistani terrorism since 1947
Integration of the Indian States, VP Menon, Orient Longman 1955
Who else but Shri V.P.Menon can be more authoritative. There is a chapter on the state of J&K.
My Frozen Turbulence in Kashmir: Jagmohan, Allied Publishers, Sixth Ed 2002

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Mar 2011 10:46

Thanks boss.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Mar 2011 10:52

menon s wrote:Punish erring security forces in J-K: Brinda

Absolutely. But, she must have also courageously said to the mothers there, "Don't put your children in harm's way by egging them on to throw stones at armed forces. This is not a non-violent struggle as you claim. Pitched battles are not the way you are going to get whatever you want. You guys are far better off than most other Indians and definitely better than all Pakistanis with whom some of you want to join"

I liked that lady from Chattisgarh who spoke the truth about her State being behind J&K in terms of poverty.

Brinda Karat just made a passing reference to the Pandits so that nobody could accuse her later of speaking only for terrorists and not their victims.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Mar 2011 10:56

abhishek_sharma wrote:Thanks

In case somebody still derails the thread after reading even portions of these books, then they are trolling, having a sinister agenda etc.