Libyan War : Political and strategic aspects

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RamaY
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by RamaY »

Theo_Fidel wrote: By that standard the British Raj would be going strong in India. The peoples opinion count, no. Unless you have lived through a stifling vicious dictatorship it is not an experience to remember. Even the limited emergency in 1975-77 was not pleasant as I can attest. I can't even imagine 42 years of that, let alone gaddafi's 'benign' leadership.
Theoji

Pls don't get me wrong. I am not saying Libya doesn't need democracy. I am talking about installing democracy thru wars and invasions. If the democratic mood is high enough the mightiest of all also will have to give way, like the British did. That too if you think India is better under British rule.

The way the rebels are handling this episode, it doesn't look like democracy.

UBanarjee,

Why there are no democratic uprisings in other Islamic nations, especially GCC and why is NATO shying away from getting involved militarily?
Theo_Fidel

Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Not to go too far OT but...

Don't forget we tried the Libya option against the British many many times. The largest of which was 1857. The INA comes to mind as well, with help from external powers no less.

Abhishek,

Also the British never found oil in India. Without oil Libya would have been like Yemen or Zimbabwe. Honestly on a population basis this would be like India sitting on 10,000 billion barrels of oil and producing 400 million barrels of oil per day. The pictures of regular residential areas of Libya look extremely run down and shabby. Don't go by the cars, even pictures of Somalia is filled with cars.

Coming back to Libya, I don't understand why this war must look democratic, wars don't work that way. Almost every city in Libya had a massive uprising which was crushed. Now the free cities are trying to push the government out of held cities.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

Assam has the second oldest discovered oil field in the world - in Digboi. India was more valuable because of its human resources.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

RamaY wrote:
Why there are no democratic uprisings in other Islamic nations, especially GCC and why is NATO shying away from getting involved militarily?
Wait, what? Where have you been for the past 6 months?

Also, do you really expect NATO or anyone to get involved everytime a protester dies? They will only involve themselves if there is a confluence of two factors-

1) National or Regional interest for those who can exercise the power
2) capacity to exercise power in the geopolitical landscape.

In other words, there has to be both the will and the capacity.

It was only possible to move against Gaddafi because these two factors coincided, particularly the 2nd one. Gaddafi was isolated from the Arab world (done through repeated self-goals and 'pan-African supremacy') and was particularly ridiculed in the region. In fact if Gaddafi didn't present such an image of eccentric senility he may never have had NATO move against him. Even many die-hard anti-colonials were surely turned off by having to support a rambling man holding an umbrella, organizing dance parties in support and clutching to power. Hard to make him a figurehead for anything.

The reason a much softer line has been taken with Syria is because there is really no capacity to act wrt to it.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by RamaY »

^ I think we are saying the same thing, albeit differently.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Klaus »

Gaddafi's ultimatum expires and Misrata tense in anticipation of bombardment from government forces: Link.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by shyamd »

Gaddafi has support now - Algiers is providing weapons mercaneries and some supplies. Then on the east, in egypt, he has his trusty cousin ahmed kaddefedam providing terror strikes into oil installations and benghazi. Buying up libyan dinars and supplying it to Tripoli as they are short of dinars.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Sam »

Just thinking out loud --- is Gaddafi due for a Seal 6 chopper ride? :rotfl:
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by RamaY »

^ Nope. If there is one it is Kiyanahi....
Theo_Fidel

Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

OK. this is Misrata weapons supply.

http://news.scotsman.com/world/The-disa ... 6764882.jp
Late at night they drove the vehicle, weighed down by the boxes of bullets, to Benghazi port. Under the cover of darkness the secret cargo was loaded on to the fishing boat and buried deep in the crates of tomatoes bound for Misrata. The aid ship was ready to depart.
For more than a month Hamid Abdallah, 27, has shipped weapons and ammunition to rebel fighters in the besieged city in Libya's west. Collecting guns and bullets from civilians, lobbying arms dealers, and buying what he can, the disabled Benghazi man has worked tirelessly to feed Misrata's weapon supply line.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Klaus »

Rebels fighting government forces have driven Q's forces westwards from Misrata, poised to make a significant thrust: Link
Theo_Fidel

Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

The rebels have almost complete control of the Nafusa mountains and the border crossing to Tunisia. Foode, medicines and weapons that are now denied to Gaddafi.
As I noted earlier the South Western Nafusa mountains will be another crucial part of this fight. They will cut off Sebha from Tripoli. Eventually they will march on Tripoli as well.

Misrata rebels now pushing South/South East as well. If I was Gaddafi this bunch would scare the sh*t out of me. They are hardened, organized and now extremely well armed as well. Not only that most reports put their numbers in the 3000+ range. The Gaddafi clan probably does not have the number of fighters needed to face this group down. The estimate is Gaddafi lost at least 2000-3000 fighters in the suicidal attempts to take Misrata. Coastal road taken as well.This means Sirte is now cut off from Tripoli. Benghazi should launch all out war on Eastern forces. They have no resupply or even retreat options.

Gaddafi is in an extremely tenuous position now. Keep in mind the cities West of Tripoli need thousands of thugs to keep suppressed. At some point Gaddafi will pull all his troops back to Tripoli as a last ditch defense. The siege of Tripoli will be interesting.

Funny part is Gaddafi now has his own 'Baghdad Bob', namely Moussa Ibrahim...

Image
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by brihaspati »

I can understand that the rebels, not only in Libya but all over the Arab world and in the so-called Arab-spring - are suspect to most eyes in BR. Many have found it surprising that I have seen the "rebels" in a positive light given my perhaps perceived attitude towards Islamism. :P

But I think we need to be aware of the following points about the "Arab world":

(1) It is not really a "Arab" world. The only "Arab" commonality is the language of the "Arabs" proper as corrupting and influencing or replacing large chunks of pre-existing languages, and the theological prestige enjoyed by KSA as the birth place of Islam.

(2) There has always been racial, ethnic, linguistic and other cultural tensions between the various regions and Islamic imperialism that has sought to soothe or negate this tension by the claims of "ummah".

(3) There has always been a struggle between the majority and the ruling elite [which is mostly formed out of various degrees of compromises between regional pre-Islamic and invading Islamic armies] over scarce biological resources - productive land, water, and trade routes.

(4) In the pre-modern period, Islam succeeded in transforming this struggle into theological and Islamic terms only, because alternative ideologies were held by those who were also imperialist and hostile [christians].

(5) In the modern period, socialism/leftism/Marxism provided an escape route for this constrained ideological horizon - since it was not associated with any of the archetypes. This therefore became the vehicle of those seeking to capitalize on the ancient and popular discontent from subject producers over land and water with the feudal elite.

(6) As in India or elsewhere - where Leftism has been able to make its political presence felt, it was led by disgruntled or disillusioned intellectual sections of the elite of respective societies, who one way or the other felt frustrated or obstructed in their search for power. In the "Arab" world, a similar process happened. But the problem was that in societies where Islam had replaced all other ideologies/theologies violently and ruthlessly, "leftists" did not have any natural societal corner or "shelter" in non-Islamic sections. So it was easier for imperialists to play around and mobilize the mullahcracy by scratching the mullahcracy's itch about the threat of alternative popular discontent which could lead to alternative sources of political power. Ironically, "leftism" achieved success only where the two proselytizing branches of the Abrahamic were either weakened already or non-Abrahamic ideologies were entrenched too and not replaced. In India, leftism succeeded because of the very existence of "Hinduism" that they are so much vocal against.

(7) But the basic struggle between elite/feudals [whose adoption of Islam was more about being on the good books of armies that controlled trade routes and finding Islamism a good model of social control that works hand in glove with feudal structures] and the producers on land in the Arab world has not gone. It periodically flares up in every generation. It was used by the elite in the colonial period to move against "foreign imperialism" [Egypt, Turkey]. But subsequently they clamped down on it when it struck closer to home.

(8) The uprisings happen with unfailing regularity - roughly every 30 years. The story of these uprisings so far has not been blown about a lot in the media - because of western interest in keeping such news suppressed. At the time the mullahcracy, or even the Baathist pretenders of "socialism" were essentially serving western purpose - and they all moved against more "Marxist" attempts.

(9) The reason now this is gaining access in the media and coming before the mainstream - is because of several different factors, not all of which are under western control. First, Islamism is no longer seen as a trusted and reliable ally of the West. Second, no obvious danger of communism, as the three bastions of "communism" have switched over to controlled private enterprise and state capitalism. Third, all three of these bastions now hobnob or toy with the idea of supporting or using Islamism against western interests. Fourth, at least one Islamic country is willing to play the game in supporting such attempts at uprisings ideologically as part of its own larger geo-political game. So it is partially impossible to entirely suppress the news of these uprisings, and actually beneficial to join in by the west. [What may not remain under your control better be infiltrated and pose as friends].

(10) I feel that any liberal or even illiberal attempt by the Arab "lower orders" against their own dynastic or single-person based regimes is a first beneficial step towards unraveling of the mullahcracy. It makes the people conscious of their own power which is a first important step that undermines the mullahcracy's supra-human authority. Second, once you topple an autocrat, it becomes progressively difficult for autocracies to be tolerated beyond limits. This may seem contradictory to historical experience, but every uprising against autocracy has over the long term compromised the powers of autocracy and ideology/theology that sustained such autocrats- even if people sort of swing back and forth in pendulum moves for some time looking for stability.

(11) The Iranian revolution that was hijacked by the Ayatollahs possibly with American covert help, was an important first step, even if Ayatollahs appear to rule an Islamist society for the next 30 years. But the seeds of eventual demise of the Ayatollahcracy were sown in that very revolution that brought Khameini to power. In two-three cycles of this churning - 60 -90 years, each generation will still be fueled by the ancient struggle and come up against the real obstacles in their way. This time around the mullahcracy itself has made the blunder of being in the forefront of power - so the frustration of the Iranian youth will see them as the obstacle. When they mature they will be less resistant to their younger population gunning for the high-priests of Islamism.

(12) The Libyan rebels should be encouraged - for they remove individual dictatorial regimes which are much more amenable to foreign and especially western manipulations. We know of examples much closer to home don't we? Over the longer term, that will translate into lesser support for mullahcracy. It was a blunder to target Najibullah in AFG. If I was an advisor for the Amir Khans I would have suggested letting him continue and even support him a bit, so that the communists and the mullahs fought it out in a war of attrition. Through that gap some degree of modernization could have been achieved, and ultimately when the society would be tired of both forms of social control, a chance would have been created for an alternative and broader base for modernization. With the blind short term gain tactics of the US, we are now saddled with the Taleban.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

brihaspati wrote: (12) The Libyan rebels should be encouraged - for they remove individual dictatorial regimes which are much more amenable to foreign and especially western manipulations.
Libyan rebels are the pigs of Animal Farm.

There is a push by western elites to put in place in the Arab world dubious democracies with Indian-style EVMs.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Gerard »

Libya preachers see big role for Islam after Gadhafi
"The situation in free Libya will revert to its natural state -- the natural state of the practice of religion in life, in the morals of the people, their ways, their return to the mosques," said Osama al-Salaaby, a well-known cleric and professor of sharia in Benghazi, the rebels' de facto capital.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by brihaspati »

Well, the Libyan preachers seem to have been doing very well under Qaddafi - the least being that they have their heads on their necks - a luxury that seems to have bypassed other "political obstacles" of Qaddafi! These preachers were allowed to survive, preach, and even be a "professor of Sharia" at Bengazhi. Not bad! Not bad at all! Could they have been "personally" flourishing under Qaddafi without secretly or covertly sucking up to him? Given the experience of communist world, and similarly structured ideological institutions - it should not be surprising to expect these "preachers" to have helped out Q with inside info on the populace.

The Mullahs are survivors. They hedge well by splitting up into apparent factions taking up positions on both sides of the conflict. Whicever side wins will help to continue the mullahfication programme and gradually bring back those hedged out to the losing side.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Neshant »

One thing it underscores is that if you are a small country with abundant natural resouces, you best be having nukes and the means to deliver it. Not having that is an invitation to vultures to decend and pick your bones.

-------------

High-level US diplomat meets Libyan rebel leaders
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110523/ap_ ... -container

France and Britain to deploy attack helicopters in Libya
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/9502 ... -in-libya/
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by ramana »

Looks like French and British are exerting maximum effort in Libya. Wonder how they would have fared a couple of decades ago with Warsaw pact countries?
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

I wouldn't say this is maximum effort exactly, they don't even have boots on the ground.

This is maximum effort within the political boundaries allowed.

With Warsaw Pact it would have been an existential fight.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by devesh »

^^^
Boots on ground is out of question....we have to understand that this is the maximum effort of has-been European powers. their max effort consists of chest thumping their Air Forces against much weaker countries which have no air assets and have no defensive capabilities. anything beyond this is impossible for these countries. their populations have no appetites for such risks. UK's adventurism in Iraq/Afghanistan is the last dying gasp of "boots on ground" strategy. financial troubles combined with aging population will completely defang Europe in the coming decades. the process has already begun. I'd say there is a distinct possibility of Europe descending into internecine rivalries and conflicts. they'll be in a state of suspended shock therapy: jumping from one crisis to another in a slow, long decline into rightly deserved oblivion. the burgeoning populations of Asia will destroy the last vestiges of Europe's disproportional influence.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Boots are already on the ground and have been for a looong time. You don't run any bombing campaign without that. Boots are also on the ground in Gaddafi territory, esp. in Tripoli.

See Minute 2:05 onwards. With head covering they would be unidentifiable.

[youtube]7On6uKaabKw&feature=player_embedded#at=129[/youtube]
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by devesh »

there is a difference between boots on the ground for Intel and Recon purposes and having a large fighting force like in Afg or Iraq. even in Afg and Iraq, European contribution is puny, and they're shitting their pants for just that. they can't do what Uncle regularly does in putting large fighting forces on the ground. even Uncle will be forced to reevaluate "boots on ground" after Middle East adventurism. that's partly why Obama chose to stay away from Libya, other than bombing campaigns and H&D support for Britain and France.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

It appears the mountain rebels south of Tripoli have finally come down to the plains and are advancing on the capital. It is uncertain how far they will get. But now there are three separate lines of attack on Gaddafi. No way he survives this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/ ... 8662.shtml
A rebel military leader said Friday his troops had broken the siege of two towns in the western Nafusa mountain range, Yefren and Shakshuk. The latter holds an important power station that feeds a number of local towns.

Ending the siege likely will bring relief to local residents. Gadhafi's troops had cut their supply lines and subjected them to random shelling since April, local Col. Jumaa Ibrahim of the region's rebel military council said via Skype.

Ibrahim said rebel forces freed the towns on Thursday then moved north to clash with Gadhafi forces in the village of Bir Ayyad.

There were no immediate reports of casualties.

"Our aim is the capital," he said, though it remains unlikely that the area's fighters will pose a serious threat to Gadhafi's hold on Tripoli, 45 miles (70 kilometers) northwest.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by ramana »

In big picture looks like Gaddafi is to be taken out and Assad allowed to remain in power.

Libya is geographically too close to France and Italy.

And Gaddafi has shown he could be vengeful.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Personally I think what doomed Gaddafi was when he threatened to let loose the illegal immigrant army on Europe. A large chunk would have ended up in France & Britain hence the takleef. Of course Gaddafi was crazy enough to play that card, insanity.

Once Libya is done (Western oil companies in), focus will turn on Syria, where the boy king inspires no confidence in the West. Note that Egypt is no longer in news and neither is Tunisia.

Yemen is likely to fall first however.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Neshant »

It has some real bad implications for India doing business in Africa.

Imagine, you invest a ton of money in oil & agri development in an African country. Establish trade relations and extend credit & loans to businesses. Everything is going well And then come some 'freedom fighting' foreign invader to attempt to hijack the entire country to null & void your contracts with the African state.

IMO India should start thinking about deploying an overseas military presence in Africa within 5 to 7 years. And a naval base too. This kind of invasion-robbery scheme is likely to be prepetuated well into the future.

This is perhaps one area where India & China can cooperate.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

^The above has huge implications and will require a vast expansion of capabilities. Chinese despite massive investments have not done the same- they know it will trigger some red lines. Also without naval power such far-flung installations are mostly just for show so it will be big expenditure for little actual gain.

India has to really get on board the investment & acquisition train first while expanding navy.
Last edited by UBanerjee on 04 Jun 2011 09:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Neshant »

No point getting on the investment acquisition train if there are no means of protecting those acquisitions.

China is building an aircraft carrier(s) for that purpose. Not so much to fight other countries but to protect its overseas investments from this very type of invasion-robbery scheme and having freedom to navigate (and ship arms) labelled as humanitarian supplies to the necessary parties. A lot of 'freedom fighting' is going to be happening in Africa over resources. India should really step up the efforts to unite Africa into one block so these African brothers can have some diplomatic power and stand united against any attempt to colonize their continent (yet again).

India is building a nuclear sub for the same reason. If anyone interfears with our trade overseas, then they can be paid back in the same coin.

Control of the sea will the one of the enduring themes of the 21st century.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

Neshant wrote:how to get on the investment acquisition train if there are no means of protecting those acquisitions?

China is building an aircraft carrier(s) for that purpose. Not so much to fight other countries but to protect its overseas investments from this very type of invasion-robbery scheme.
Not true. I was just browsing a long discussion done on how China is investing in Latin America. It is doing the investments and acquisitions with very little military muscle in the area to "protect" them- it knows doing so would trigger US red lines and compromise the activities. In fact such overt muscle may not be required. Sure you will lose on some investments. But the cost to India of doing a big muscular push into Africa: those costs (political & economic) are huge so it's a cost-benefit analysis.

Same goes for Chinese presence in Africa- I hope you don't think they are using those carriers (whenever they actually come out) to patrol African waters and Chinese investments there! They don't have a logistical structure that broad and are not building any, despite large inv & acq in Africa as well, equity stake in resources. The carriers are for the local environment, not far-flung power projection. Studies of Chinese capabilities show that even projection into the Indian ocean will be logistically prohibitive for them because of India's dominant position here, for at least the next two decades.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

Neshant wrote: Control of the sea will the one of the enduring themes of the 21st century.
Well we all know that because control of the sea was "enduring theme" of 20th, 19th, 18th, 17th, 16th... and so on centuries :P
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

Neshant wrote: India should really step up the efforts to unite Africa into one block so these African brothers can have some diplomatic power and stand united against any attempt to colonize their continent (yet again).
Well that is too late, as the Chinis are the new colonials in Africa! They have already begun buying up resources and will support any puppet regime that is amenable, similar to US involvement in Latin America at the turn of the last century.

A very weak continent like Africa with such large resources is not surprisingly going to be the playground for larger powers. What we can do is get involved and hedge Chinese influence. The more options the locals have for foreign investors and 'colonials', the better for them, and for us.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Neshant »

UBanerjee wrote:Not true. I was just browsing a long discussion done on how China is investing in Latin America. It is doing the investments and acquisitions with very little military muscle in the area to "protect" investments-.
Latin America and South East Asia already can protect itself. Not so in the case of Africa.

As I said, no point pouring investments overseas if there are no means of protecting it. Roughly 30K Chinese workers were in Libya and soon a good number may be out of a job.
In fact such overt muscle may not be required. Sure you will lose on some investments.
Its not "some" investments, its a hell of a lot of money. Measured in billions perhaps tens of billions. Its stupid to spend money building up something only to see it pilfered.
But the cost to Iindia of doing a big muscular push into Africa military-wise: those costs (political & economic) are huge so it's a cost-benefit analysis.


I don't think it costs much to station a garrison overseas.
Same goes for Chinese presence in Africa- I hope you don't think they are using those carriers (whenever they actually come out) to patrol African waters and Chinese investments there!
They will certainly send their carriers if their merchant ships are intercepted or large scale investments are threatened. Or they will use their carriers to intercept merchant ships of the offending country in South East Asia itself. Either way, the offending country will not get away with it if there are means to inflict an opportunity cost on the evil doing.
They don't have a logistical structure that broad and are not building any,
Don't know what logistical stuff you're talking about but if they can refuel and dock ships in Burma and Pakistan and fly fighter planes out of there, its all good.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Hmmm! Libya no fly zone thread people...

There appears to be serious pressure to finish this. Like right NOW..

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 317b07.5c1
NATO announced Saturday it had for the first time used attack helicopters in Libya, striking military vehicles, military equipment and forces backing embattled leader Colonel Moamer Kadhafi.

"Attack helicopters under NATO command were used for the first time on 4 June 2011 in military operations over Libya as part of Operation Unified Protector," the Atlantic Alliance said in a statement.

"The targets struck included military vehicles, military equipment and fielded forces" of the Kadhafi regime, said the statement, without detailing exactly where the strikes had taken place.

British Apache helicopters took part in the attacks, the Ministry of Defence said in London. "Yes, we confirm" their intervention, a spokeswoman said, without giving further details.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

the british were testing the apache over the sea near gibralter a couple weeks ago, since the apaches have never operated before off the HMS Ocean.

still helis means the loyalists get the chance to shoot a few down. longbows are not cheap platforms.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Aditya_V »

So this is now Officially a Regime Change Operation, all the pretense has been dropped.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by shyamd »

Whats going on?

- G8 are going to pump serious $$ into post Gaddafi libya and develop eastern Libya. Not sure if you guys heard of the $40b for Tunis and Cairo.

- Battle to finish the job has started. Canada has been running the ops at the moment. Gaddafi has kept a lot of his arms and main 32nd brigade away from action.

- Watch for news when the def mins meet up in Brussels - thats when you'll hear talk of "finishing the job".

- Algeria still supporting Gaddafi.

- French are gung ho about defeating Gaddafi.

-Despite Libya's oil reserves, the country's economic situation promises to be difficult even after the fighting has ended because much of its refineries have been damaged. So EU will pump the $$ to keep it going.

- NATO has become more political lately to speed up the "finishing of the job".
Singha
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

4 apache helis flying off HMS Ocean and unknown number of french gunships flying off the second mistral ship Tonnerre comprises the helicopter strike force.
its not a whole lot, but its all they have got deployable at the moment. the much vaunted british joint helicopter command or whatever its called in AFM articles does not seem much in evidence.
Singha
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

msnbc footage shows french tiger and gazelle helis and UK a mix of vanilla apache and longbow helis flying around.
UBanerjee
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

So UK & French actually putting their muscle where their mouth has been.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Theo_Fidel »

shyamd wrote:Gaddafi has kept a lot of his arms and main 32nd brigade away from action.
This not true, as based on most reports it was the 32nd (Khamis Brigade) that was involved in the attack on Misrata. This is why the fighting was so vicious. By most accounts only remnants remain between Misrata and Tripoli. Things are so bad that local criminals are now being drafted in.
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