Bharat Rakshak

narmad wrote:X Posting from Army Thread

Support for Anna shows power of democracy: Army Chief

Stating that the nation was in a "morass", Army Chief General V K Singh has said the support that the anti-corruption movement was getting was an indication of "power of democracy, power of people."
The country, he said, was passing through "an interesting and turbulent period.
"The theme is only one--how do we take the nation forward from the morass that we are in.... It is not who is leading the movement but it is why it has come to this stage," he said.

Very surprising for the Chief to make such a statement. But i am happy :0)

Support for Anna shows power of democracy: Army Chief

Stating that the nation was in a "morass", Army Chief General V K Singh has said the support that the anti-corruption movement was getting was an indication of "power of democracy, power of people."
The country, he said, was passing through "an interesting and turbulent period.
"The theme is only one--how do we take the nation forward from the morass that we are in.... It is not who is leading the movement but it is why it has come to this stage," he said.

Very surprising for the Chief to make such a statement. But i am happy :0)

Anantha wrote:If you read between the lines it looks more and more like the Chief VKS has threatened or issued a veiled threat to the Govt that army may support the people storming of the parliament or that it may step up the pressure to ask the Govt to go to people to ask for a fresh mandate.

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Sanku have you seen this video:

Kanson wrote:

Anantha wrote:If you read between the lines it looks more and more like the Chief VKS has threatened or issued a veiled threat to the Govt that army may support the people storming of the parliament or that it may step up the pressure to ask the Govt to go to people to ask for a fresh mandate.

If that is what he tried to say, I welcome such move. When there is revolution in every society, it is only in our country with such patience we tried to tolerate such menace for long time.

Anantha wrote:This thing about PM being honest is a big BS. Kanimozhi and Raja have minutes of the meeting where PM has Oked that there will be no auction of spectrum.
Nevertheless I would rather take a corrupt PM who can keep the other 540 MP's honest.

a_kumar wrote:I can't believe BRFites are falling for this "middle class driving the movement" perception carefully created by the English Media. Its bad enough that CNN-IBN/NDTV are trying to pit middle class with lower class, minorities with majority to serve the Congress.

Why are we falling for that divide-and-rule policy.

Lets consider the typical political meetings where the motivation often tends to be incentives offered (aka bribes). This brings out a particular working class to the meetings.

However, in the current movement, there is no such incentive offered. On top of that this brought out working class and middle class.

If one uses typical political gatherings as reference, the delta is "middle class". That does not mean that this is driven by the "middle class". It only means, lower and middle class have become partners.

Theo_Fidel wrote: Let me tell you a story about a peanut farmer in my neck of the woods. About 15 years ago his neighbor a powerful landlord filled a bogus case against him over illegally cropping/occupying some land. It was about 10 sq yds IIRC. The court sentence was 10 years in prison. After 6 months the appeals court quietly suggested a donation be made. About Rs 10,000 exchanged hands and he was set free. This is the experience the really poor have of corruption. Sometimes it is the only option they have of saving their lives. The system might bend to them if they can raise enough money.

A rigid lokpal system might cause quite a bit of harm especially when the system is so deeply deeply unfair and rigged against the really poor.

This is like saying, lets create a small hole in the hen house. Because when the wolf gets in through the main access, hen need something to escape. But then, what about those that can't fit through the hole? and What if something else comes through this hole?

One would think the solution should actually prevent wolf from getting into the hen house.

Coming to your example, what if those farmers that can't pool 10,000? What if it required more money to get him out? Is that really a justification for loose laws?

One would think the solution is to protect the person like your peanut farmer from bogus case (your words) by a powerful landlord (your words). And if Jan Lok Pal has the power to investigate judiciary (don't take that as a vote for that item, I have my reservations), it would be solved. So, if you really want to help your peanut farmer, you should be supporting the Jan LokPal as it exists right now.

Theo_Fidel wrote: I don't see what is cynical at all. Nitish came through the constitutional process did he not. IMHO he has had 1000 times the effect of AH (or for that matter the entire achievements of this 'movement') who only had a tiny village to deal with. People are not opposed to voting for anti-corruption leaders. AMMA, Nitish and even DIDI in recent times have come up through the electoral system. Reform within the system is far far more effective than any attempt at revolution.

What if Nitish becomes corrupt tomorrow or DIDI gets corrupt. Is there a guarantee that they wont? How much should one rely on moral compass of the powerful or wait until all the elected leaders and morally upright? Is that really a winning strategy, I mean that is what we have been doint for 64 years right. What actually happened is that they consolidated more and more power and are sitting on a pile of "conflicts of interests" (they now get the MP funds instead of IAS distributing it previously, they successfully protected themselves from being prosecuted by anybody outside the parliament).

In absense of recall or any similar mechanism to fire the MPs in the 5 year period (I am not sure if we are ready for that yet).. an investigative agency which is not controlled by the government and has the jurisdiction on all govt employees is a big shot in the arm.

How does one ensure LokPal is not corrupt, that is a valid question and can be discussed!

Ultimately, CBI's opinion depends on who is in power," Justice Verma said

Anantha wrote:If you read between the lines it looks more and more like the Chief VKS has threatened or issued a veiled threat to the Govt that army may support the people storming of the parliament or that it may step up the pressure to ask the Govt to go to people to ask for a fresh mandate.

sumishi wrote:

Kanson wrote:If that is what he tried to say, I welcome such move. When there is revolution in every society, it is only in our country with such patience we tried to tolerate such menace for long time.

Any historical precedence of army seizing controls, and then relinquishing power following (after allowing) a popular mandate?

Anantha wrote:

Any historical precedence of army seizing controls, and then relinquishing power following (after allowing) a popular mandate?

In a country with strong civilian controls all that a patriotic army chief has to do is to "advice" the President of India to dissolve the Lok Sabha and order fresh elections. Once elections are ordered you will see the politicians falling on Anna's and public's feet next day.

sumishi wrote:

Kanson wrote:If that is what he tried to say, I welcome such move. When there is revolution in every society, it is only in our country with such patience we tried to tolerate such menace for long time.

Any historical precedence of army seizing controls, and then relinquishing power following (after allowing) a popular mandate?

NDTV is more supportive of Congress stand.

Hazare mania: Several Annas take birth in Bihar - http://www.dailypioneer.com/363560/Haza ... Bihar.html

With Anna Hazare’s fast generating mass euphoria across the country, hundreds of newborns are being been named “Anna” irrespective of their caste or community.

In the last six days in the Government hospital in Darbhanga alone 185 baby Annas have taken birth. Cutting across the gender barrier even girl children are being named Anna by their parents.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/363560/Haza ... Bihar.html

Anantha wrote: If you read between the lines it looks more and more like the Chief VKS has threatened or issued a veiled threat to the Govt that army may support the people storming of the parliament or that it may step up the pressure to ask the Govt to go to people to ask for a fresh mandate.

Issuing veiled threats isn't considered OLQ - certainly not in Indian army. Gen. VK Singh meant exactly what he said.

sum wrote:

NDTV is more supportive of Congress stand.

Well, a paid broker has to be supportive of his master,...however, Rajdeep S seems to be wanting to outshine NDTV in INC @$$-kissing...

Protesters ‘bought’ for anti-Anna agitation

As Anna Hazare’s supporters continue to gather at the Ramlila Maidan, others who labelled the movement as ‘unconstitutional’ assembled at India Gate to protest against the anti-graft crusader on Wednesday.

The protesters, led by Udit Raj, ran down Anna’s movement and termed the Jan Lokpal Bill as against the basic tenets of democracy.

Some of the protesters, however, claimed they were participating because local touts had promised them money and free transport for marching from India Gate to Jantar Mantar.

“Some of the touts in our localities paid us in batches. We were paid Rs100 to Rs200 to be a part of this. We are in desperate need of the money, so it didn’t matter whether the protest was pro or anti Anna,” said Harish Sharma, who had been brought in from Haryana.

The agitators claimed that the entire march had been organised by detractors of Anna, and touts had been paid in lump sum to ‘buy’ protesters.

“Some of our local leaders got packets of money by people having political affiliations. A part was this was used to pay some of us. We were told to shout slogans against Anna,” said Rakesh Gupta, a protester.

However, organisers denied forcing people to join the movement.”Everyone gathered here has come of their own free will and no one has been forced in any way. These are rumours and not to be taken seriously,” said Om Hari, one of the organisers.

Some people who had gathered at the venue claimed that the organisers of the anti-Anna movement had misled them. “We were told this was a movement to support Anna Hazare, which is why we came,” said Om Shankar, from Ghaziabad.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... 37720.aspx

skumar wrote:

Rudradev wrote: <snip>
To sum up:

1) Sonia Gandhi proved that Indian Parliamentary Democracy could be subverted, by creating a center of extra-constitutional power.

2) In Sonia Gandhi's darbaar, many unelected "civil society" types started exercising extra-constitutional power. But between them were struggles. Some became Insiders, some became Outsiders.

<snip>

Good stuff. However, I am not sure about the motivations sought to be ascribed to Kejriwal (not sure about others like Prashant Bhushan). From his history and actions, he seems very forthright. It is clear that Anna is the "heart" of the movement and Kejriwal and team are the "brains".

<snip>

pvshankar wrote:Interesting but long article on Arvind Kejriwal
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/PrintThis ... oryId=1050

The Archbishop of Bombay, Cardinal Oswald Gracias, on Thursday reiterated support to Anna Hazare and asked him and the government to come to a solution.

The press statement read, "The health of Anna Hazare is causing great concern. I appeal strongly to Annaji to please give up your hunger strike."

The letter goes on to praise Anna for being successful in bringing the issue of corruption to centre stage. It also makes a categorical remark that the church firmly stands behind Anna Hazare.

"You have succeeded in convincing all that this issue must be addressed seriously and urgently. In order to allay any doubts about the church's stand on this issue, in the context of some reports in the media, I wish to reiterate that the church is fully with Anna Hazare in his campaign against corruption," the letter states.

It further states that: "I appeal to all: to the Government, to Anna Hazare and to others to be flexible.Please start talking effectively.

We have to eradicate corruption; we have to honour the Constitution. I appeal to all to work unitedly and selflessly within these parameters to arrive at a just solution that is good for the people of the country."

Catholic groups took out a rally slamming corruption.

If you want to say something to Government, Come with 5 lakh people and conduct hunger strike for 10 days, then government will plan to talk about this.. But, for asking Vote, they will come to you unasking, unfasting and will bend backwards/forward, lean on their knees...

Murugan wrote:Church is Firmly Behind Anna Hazari

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_a ... st_1579791

Rahul Gandhi finally broke his silence on the Anna Hazare fast and thanked Anna Hazare for highlighting the issue of corruption through his campaign.

Sharing the concern on corruption, Rahul Gandhi said the need of the hour was not just a strong Lokpal but to go a step beyond and make the Lokpal a constitutional body like the Election Commission.

The modalities of the resolution and debate is reportedly being worked upon even as Anna Hazare's indefinite fast for a strong Lokpal entered the 11th day on Friday. Three Congress MPs Jagdambika Pal, Anu Tandon and Sanjay Nirupam have given notice to Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar for Jan Lokpal Bill debate under Rule 193, which does not entail voting.

Murugan wrote:Cong MPs give Lokpal notice in LS

The modalities of the resolution and debate is reportedly being worked upon even as Anna Hazare's indefinite fast for a strong Lokpal entered the 11th day on Friday. Three Congress MPs Jagdambika Pal, Anu Tandon and Sanjay Nirupam have given notice to Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar for Jan Lokpal Bill debate under Rule 193, which does not entail voting.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Cong-MPs- ... 37819.aspx

abhishek_sharma wrote:From facebook

Aditya_V wrote:Make Lokpal a constitutional body: Rahul Gandhi