Nikhil T wrote:Karan M wrote:
"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents
And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".
Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.
I couldn’t find a better example of irony. You dismiss Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain as a one off example, that I’m using to paint everyone in the same brush. You’re using one slogan to paint the entire lot of protestors with the same brush!
The fact is that there are
umpteen images of protestors waving national flags, pictures of Gandhi/Ambedkar, posters of secularism and unity, and demonstrating peacefully. Similarly there are a lot of perfectly patriotic Hindus protesting against CAA and NRC. You just choose to ignore those images because pointing to one off slogans is a convenient mask for your own visceral hatred and biases.
You seem to be choosing to deliberately misunderstand something awfully straightforward. I was referring to your argument in bringing Gen Hasnain into a discussion which doesn't involve him at all, as it sure comes across as trying to ignore the tinderbox of religious bigotry by bringing an accomplished individual as a one man representative of his faith everytime his co-religionists do something insane. Its unfair to him to be propped up in such an manner as versus standing ahead on the basis of his accomplishments.
Next, I am not using *one slogan* - I am pointing to the fact there was significant violence in West Bengal, UP, Delhi by radicalized members of the community *and* those who should have been educated and better, weren't, as they were often caught inadvertently making the same slogans and claims. The fact that you seek to conflate this with the above examples you cite above is a perfect example of trying to ignore the fact that there was religious radicalism involved in the protests and evidence exists regarding that. One (flag waving by non violent protestors, Hindus, Muslims etc) does not excuse the other.
As regards your personal attack above: "You just choose to ignore those images because pointing to one off slogans is a convenient mask for your own visceral hatred and biases." you just crossed the line with your tendency to sit on some self appointed high horse and pretend you are some moral individual whereas everyone else is wallowing in turpitude. This is not the first time either, despite polite requests to you to cease and desist.
Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.
Nobody is denying radicalization problem in Muslims. It must be dealt with, but surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship. Let’s also admit there’s a bigotry problem amongst a section of Hindus as well. Only earlier this week there was a video of a Karnataka school students enacting the demolition of Babri masjid for their annual day. What is that if not bigotry? Similarly, much of the new found distaste for violent protests is just that. I’ve already provided examples of Hindu protestors (Patidars, Jaats) who have earlier engaged in even more violent protests. This holier than thou and name calling only exposes your selective memory.
Again, you are engaging in outright misrepresentation.
"surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship." - this has neither been done by GOI nor asked for by anyone else on this forum.
The examples you quote are also despicable but unrelated to the current incident.
Furthermore, I engaged in no name calling in my prior post, but you have done so in your latest.
As regards Hindus who have engaged in violent protests, may I refresh your memory and point out police firing occurred and the riots were controlled.
You have received a ban to cool off and return to your prior productive posting.
Frankly, the above was not your 1st distasteful attack on moderators and admins, and grounds for even a permanent ban. Ramana already mentioned the same earlier, and yet you persist with a 2nd attack.
I am not even sure whether you are in India and understand how ugly the scene is with cops nearly being lynched while you guys focus on "peaceful protestors". As harsh as it may sound to you, the general public is not looking at things that way and things may worsen.
The only thing I can perhaps think of why you are constantly bringing in completely unrelated issues and trying to downplay the severity of the problem is that perhaps you are unaware of the scale of the violence and problems thereof.
There are now visuals all over the place of cops being literally stoned in a targeted fashion as they cower from Islamist mobs, many were wounded and were bleeding. In another case, a running cop was literally lynched by a similar mob, and there are unconfirmed reports he is in a coma (I hope not). In Delhi, religious mobs attacked cops and traffic, and ignored the presence of even school buses. In West Bengal, muslim mobs went around attacking trains, and passengers. Train drivers were injured. They also burnt down station/s and trains.
In Meerut, a police station was burnt down, people died in rioting. In Mangalore, cops opened fire on Muslim mobs.
Now do you realize the scale of the issue and why I said what I did? I can only surmise you are completely unaware of the gravity and scale of the issue despite being an otherwise reasoned poster. Its easy to name call us and accuse us of bigotry, being anti-Muslim etc. Have you gone back and checked the number of times that I have interceded in this thread & asked people to tone it down? How many times other mods have stepped in likewise.
The fact of the matter is people are *angry* and afraid. The combination of the two is a tinderbox. If these mob attacks on cops, and Hindu groups continue, there will be a violent counter-reaction.
In this milieu, to excuse the obvious and blatant bigotry being displayed by clueless or deliberately malafide elements like the two ladies who were propped us as "sheroes" and the LW's agenda peddling, is to ignore the above. If anything, every effort should be made to call them out and stop it.
Some jokers walking around saying "hey man, cool protest" like a lot of the CAB guys, or the well meaning confused sorts cannot cover up for the massive violence above and which is at the verge of exploding.
If that happens, the GOI will be forced to take harsh measures - and it won't go well for anyone of us. Not sure whether you will be affected, but we sure will and hence our concern.
. But many idiots in KL have now taken it to be gospel truth, without realising how big the city is and how blocking some thing like internet would effect the IT cos.