India-EU News & Analysis

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Dec 2011 05:52

Yes, it's a good family destination - especially the resort areas like Bled.

But if you are strict about food, etc., you will need to plan specifically for that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Dec 2011 22:53

Greece jails Abbot Ephraim in Mount Athos fraud case

Christian religious leadership
* Corrupt - Check
* Sexual misconduct - Check
* Political misconduct - Check
* Genocide - Check
* Crimes against Humanity - Check
* Human rights abuses - Check

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 29 Dec 2011 15:39

In Norway, 2 Indian children taken away from parents because the family shared the bed. The parents advised to separate to get children back. What a barbaric country!

https://twitter.com/#!/KanchanGupta/sta ... 1084392448

What barbaric country would do this? Such is the human rights understanding of Europeans!

More on it here. Norwegian agency takes away kids from Indian couple on pretext of their 'emotional disconnect'

Here our talented babus on foreign missions waiting for formal complaint first, then finding out too correctly that the matter was 'subjudice' exactly at that point of time.

The Indian mission was also waiting for a formal request from the Indian family to intervene in the matter.

The MEA source also revealed that the Norwegian childcare authority has claimed that the matter was subjudice.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 12 Jan 2012 09:11

Kosovo: Risk of radical Islam, says ambassador to Italy

Four years on from its independence, Kosovo is attempting to reaffirm its native traditions and is calling on the West for help to avoid being swallowed by the slow advance of radical Islam, which is taking advantage of tolerant traditions.

The scenario is one of inter-religious dialogue that is progressing at its own slow pace, without making any fuss and seeking to keep its distance from politics, and of a moderate Islamic tradition at risk of Wahabite contagion.

[...]

He recalled how only 3 percent of Kosovo's population is Catholic. So how is it possible to persuade the monks of Peja/Pec and Decani to leave their monasteries? ''They have to overcome their fear,'' the Bishop replied. ''The monks of Decani have started learning Albanian. This gives us hope of a normalisation of relations between Serbs and Albanians''.

[...]

Today, Kosovo can boast of 760 mosques, while there were only 550 before the war. Unlike other countries, there are clear rules relating to sermons. "In order to become an Imam, you need to have attended a madrasa, to have absolved a competitive process, and entered into a faculty of Islamic studies".

Kosovo society also lives its religious nature in a different way to the Arab Muslims. Here, the great feast of Bairam (the Feast of the Sacrifice), is celebrated by drinking rakìa (an alcoholic spirit similar to grappa).

There are few veils, long beards or traditional garments to be seen and it is the Muslims themselves that produce the wine and beer they consume - mainly in the Suhareke and Rahovec areas of the Prizren district.

Another distinctive element is the presence of a Sufi brotherhood (a mystic sect within Islam), which is not just tolerated, but takes an active role in Kosovo's religious life. The most important of these is the tekke halveti of Prizren, which has a following of 15,000 and has been practising its faith since 1713.

As the General Secretary of the Muslim community concludes: ''We are not in agreement with the Muslim faith as it is practised in Arab countries and we do not intend to go in that direction. For this reason, we are concerned about the advance of radical Islam in our country''.

For now, only a few have fallen under the spell of the so-called ''Taleban of the Balkans,'' Fuad Ramiqi, who, through his organisation, 'Bashkohu' (Let us unite), preaches the total conversion of the state to Islam. But then? ''If the West were to leave us alone,'' the Kosovo Ambassador to Italy, Albert Prenkaj, never tires of saying ''our country would risk becoming a pupil of the more fanatical Islamic countries''.

The "Talibanization" of the Balkans happens with the explicit and material support of the Turkish Gulenists, who are in turn supported by the US/UK.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 13 Jan 2012 23:45

Since there is no dedicated Indo-France thread, decided to post it here

UN human rights body backs French Sikhs on turbans

A Sikh man in France has won the backing of the United Nations Human Rights Committee in his fight over religious headgear.

It said France was violating Sikhs' religious freedom by forcing them to remove their turbans when having photos taken for passports and ID cards.

Ranjit Singh, 76, said he had turned to the UN because he found the French policy disrespectful and unnecessary.

The ruling is not legally binding. France was asked to respond by March.

Mr Singh welcomed the decision, telling the BBC: "[The turban] is part of my body. It is my identity and I cannot part with it."

Added Later: Thanks! RajeshA....X-posted there as well!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Jan 2012 23:52

anishns wrote:Since there is no dedicated Indo-France thread, decided to post it here

Indo-French Ties

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 16 Jan 2012 21:05

EU, India discuss agenda for 12th summit

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Jan 2012 15:16

I am aware that norway is not a member of the EU but I did not know where else to post this ridiculous bit of news.

Foolish goras.

Norway authorities take away Indian couple's kids, say feeding with hands wrong

New Delhi: Anurup and Sagarika Bhattacharya - an Indian couple from Kolkata are living a nightmare in Norway. Their children - a three-year-old son and one-year-old daughter - were taken away from them by Norway's child protective services and placed in foster care eight months ago.

The drastic measure was taken because, according to the child protective services, the couple were not bringing the children up properly. What did they do wrong? They fed the children with their hands and the infants slept in the same bed as the parents.

"My son was sleeping with my husband. They said he should sleep separately from your son," said Mrs Bhattacharya.

"Feeding a child with the hand is normal in Indian tradition and when the mother is feeding with a spoon there could be phases when she was overfeeding the child. They said it was force feeding. These are basically cultural differences," said Mr Bhattacharya.

Recently, the Indian Embassy in Oslo stepped in and an officer even met the children, though the parents were not allowed to.

Norway's Child Protective Service is a powerful body charged with protecting the rights of children living in difficult family situations. But there are many reports of excesses.

"There has been a report in UN in 2005 which criticized Norway for taking too many children in public care. The amount was 12,500 children and Norway is a small country," said Svein Kjetil Lode Svendsen, lawyer.

The Bhattacharyas' visas expire in March. If they don't get their children by then, the couple will be forced to stay on.

"What we have thought is we are not going to apply for visa for my children. But if the case doesn't get sorted we have to apply because we cannot come back to India without our children," said Mr Bhattacharya.
It's a nightmare that, at this moment, seems without end.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 19 Jan 2012 16:00

Maybe we should arrest some Norwegians who come to India and use tissue paper to wipe their @ss or who dont take daily baths.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 19 Jan 2012 21:19

^ Yep. That is not a bad idea.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 21 Jan 2012 02:28

Oslo Anti-Islam Manifesto on Danish Theatre

COPENHAGEN — Plans by a Danish theatre to stage a play based on the manifesto of Norwegian anti-Muslim extremist Anders Behring Breivik have sparked a heated debate as offering a stage to extremist views.

"The piece will run from August 23 to September 15," and despite the criticism "will figure on next season's program," Jeanette Kruse, the spokeswoman of the Cafe Teatret theatre, told Agence France Presse (AFP) on Thursday, January 19.

Kruse refused to give further details about the play, saying the all details would be given by the theatre’s artistic director Christian Lollike.

The plans for the controversial play adapting Behring Breivik's 1,500-page manifesto were first revealed by Lollike to Denmark's paper Politiken on Thursday.

In his interview published by the paper, Lollike stressed that the twin attacks in neighboring Norway were "a terrible tragedy," and that Behring Breivik "executed people in a very cruel way."

"But the reasoning behind his actions are not unique. They express a political and ideological point of view. This can happen again," he said.

"What I'm afraid of is that Breivik's way of thinking will be left alone and will not be probed and reflected on," he added.

Breivik, described by the police as a "right-wing Christian fundamentalist", killed at least 76 people in twin attacks on a government building and a youth training camp in Oslo last year.

The attacker said that his assault was a self-styled mission to save European “Christendom” from Islam.

He said that his actions aimed to "change Norwegian society" against a "Muslim invasion" of Europe.

Shortly before beginning his killing spree, Breivik posted a rambling, plagiaristic manifesto.

In his manifesto, Breivik describes himself as the "Marxist Hunter."

Anger

The decision to present a monologue based on the extremist manifesto set off an avalanche of angry reactions.

"Lollike's argument is a bad excuse to draw attention to his project," Erik Ulfsby, who heads The Norwegian Theatre, told AFP.

Titled "2083 -- A European Declaration of Independence," the play include Breivik calls for adherents to spawn large families of white European 'jihadists.'

"If you are not willing to sacrifice your own life, then I would strongly advise you to make babies and ensure that they will be willing to sacrifice theirs when the time is right," he says at one point.

"I will be labeled as the biggest (Nazi-)monster ever witnessed since WW2," he acknowledged in the document

He says the Knights Templar, a medieval order of crusading warriors, lent modern renown by Dan Brown's best-sellers, had been re-formed in London in 2002.

The plans by the Danish theatre to present the extremist manifesto followed announcement earlier this week about a planned rally in Denmark by far-right European groups to denounce Muslims and their faith.

Led by the English Defence League, the far-right rally is expected to be attended by representatives from more than 10 far-right groups from across Europe.

Across Europe, far-right politicians have accelerated their rhetoric against Muslim minorities in recent years.

Far-right Dutch lawmaker Wilders has called for banning the Muslim face-veil in the Netherlands and stopping immigration from Muslim countries.

In Sweden, the far-right Sweden Democrats have unveiled plans to impose a moratorium on building new mosques in the Scandinavian country.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 22 Jan 2012 05:48

Meanwhile in the Teutonic lands...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 820529.ece

Three-year-old Abhigyan and his one-year-old sister Aishwarya are in foster care in Norway after the country's Child Protection Service charged their mother, Sagarika, with “negligence and unable to bring up” the children. Barnevarne, a child care service of Norway, took custody of the children in May last year when Aishwarya was just five months old and on breast feed.

Child right laws in Norway are very strict and it was Abhigyan's “erratic” behaviour at school which made the school authorities suspect that he was probably not being brought up well. The child protection services people started visiting the Bhattacharya household for an hour every week and decided that Sagarika was not capable of looking after her children as she “was in depression, tired and had no patience”. They said the mother “over-fed” her child, fed with fingers and the boy slept with his father.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 22 Jan 2012 06:52

^^ Norway govt. will loose the case badly in court if feeding with hand is a issue. Guess something more if not social services will loose for sure without solid evidence and have to pay massive damage to the family.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jan 2012 14:52

SM Krishna has jumped into the fray and asked for the children to be handed over to their grand parents and has also asked the Indian Envoy to lodge a protest with the norwegians.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Jan 2012 15:34

The Stavangar Child Welfare Service (Barnevernet) is a dictatorship. Friends of mine have also had run in with them. They can take away your children at the smallest of pretexts.
'
The way to get them is to start criminal proceedings against the office, and to demand a big compensation! The Indian Embassy should help the couple. Nothing short of a big compensation should be on the table.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jan 2012 19:19

RajeshA wrote:The Stavangar Child Welfare Service (Barnevernet) is a dictatorship. Friends of mine have also had run in with them. They can take away your children at the smallest of pretexts.
'
The way to get them is to start criminal proceedings against the office, and to demand a big compensation! The Indian Embassy should help the couple. Nothing short of a big compensation should be on the table.

As per the norwegians, the kids will remain in foster care till they are eighteen.

The mother is delivering her frozen mother's milk to the authorities to feed her baby. Wonder if a white mother would be doing the same for her kid under similar circumstances??

Are the norwegiens morons or what?? I would have used much stronger words but for the respect for the moderators.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Jan 2012 19:46

chetak wrote:As per the norwegians, the kids will remain in foster care till they are eighteen.

That will be a case of kidnapping!

chetak wrote:The mother is delivering her frozen mother's milk to the authorities to feed her baby. Wonder if a white mother would be doing the same for her kid under similar circumstances??

Yes white mothers too would do that.

chetak wrote:Are the norwegiens morons or what?? I would have used much stronger words but for the respect for the moderators.

Yes, they are morons. The Stavangar Child Welfare Service (Barnevernet) have an extremely arrogant attitude that comes from extremist liberalism, Extremist liberalism has at its core the belief that traditional thinking which revolves around the family is primitive; and nurturing is a scientific task. Furthermore they use this ideology in order to preserve and proliferate their line of work.

The problem for the Indian family is that for the court important is the advice of the experts. In this case both the defendant and the experts would be from the same pool of people. These people are known to be able to put everything in very scientific sounding terms and to present their case according to due procedure. Due procedure is what the judges love. Anybody without a background in law, that opens his mouth in front of the judge is considered an inferior testimony.

What needs to be done is that Indian Embassy should hire a local Norwegian law firm with good reputation. They need to fly over an Indian lawyer to help in the interaction between the Indian family and the law firm to make up a solid case. Furthermore they need to look out for and involve pediatricians academics and lawyers who support the family unity.

This is a very hard case, and should Norwegian court decide that the Child Welfare Service are right in taking away the children, then I'm afraid it would even have serious repercussions on India-Norway relations.

Should however Norway courts pronounce a negative decision, then India should simply pick up some children of Norwegian families in India on similar pretext and make a deal.

There also needs to be some media attention to this calling the Norwegians as barbarians and child-kidnappers.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 22 Jan 2012 20:26

If Children are Indian Citizens then a case of Kidnapping can be registered against the head of Child Protection Services and assorted officials involved in the case and Interpol RCN can also be issued to give issue more visibility.

I also think that Embassy should help Couples in hiring Law firm and Indian Lawyers as interlocutors and put a extraordinary compensatory claim.

Simultaneously, Other course of actions could be adopted as reciprocity, but don't know how far Indian Govt is up to it. We are good only manipulating DOB of COAS under threat.

Recently India Norway ies have taken deep plunge and this one would become difficult due to poor relationship. Cultural sensitivity is one thing these Norwegians might not understand.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Jan 2012 20:35

Norwegians have always had taqleef with Indian interests. Don't know which geopolitical interest and undercurrent is at work here, but there was no need for norway to interfere in Sri Lanka mess to poke and disturb the process happening under supervision of India. It is my belief that there would have been peace long ago, if norway wasn't a interlocutor. this incident of kidnapping children is height of stupidity. Our children fare much much better than theirs.

A child doing danga-masti in school is living up to his age and it is not "erratic" behavior. Feeding by hand is not force-feeding. Indian parents sacrifice their happiness to great extent to ensure that their children are raised properly. There are people who give 50% of their annual income to make sure their child gets good education. Lecturing Indians on parenting is the last thing in universe that Indians should pay heed to.

Separating a child from mother and father is one of the greatest crimes against humanity. Only asuras and rakshasas indulge in such adharma.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 22 Jan 2012 20:51

Norwegian episode is tragic and scary (literally). I do not understand this "suspicion of fathers" in Western societies, sleeping in the same bed with one's child can be construed as abuse is foolish but also dangerous for Indian families living in the west. They make "sleeping in the same bed" sound like doing some obscene act. Is it not possible for the father to love and care for his child just as a mother does? (OTOH, going to Sauna in digambar avastha with the whole family is considered normal, I do not have any qualms about it, for each his own, but they should not judge others from their prejudiced lenses either).

It might be the situation that due to widespread and frequent alchoholism in Scandinavian countries, it is advised to not sleep near a young baby (since the parent might not be in senses and roll over). But I am sure for most Indian parents, this is not the case. The prevalent thinking here considers parenting and child-birth as two separate things (also marriage and parenting are not considered to be connected things).

Basically, there is no assumed right of parents to their kids (state is the ultimate Mai-Baap). Brihaspatiji had referred to the concept of one's life not being independent but belonging to the state - this is the exact underlying moral-basis for taking away kids from one's parents. In India, authorities will be much more careful before taking away a child.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 23 Jan 2012 06:36

Got love the state demanding the husband divorce his wife!

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jan 2012 14:55

prahaar wrote:Norwegian episode is tragic and scary (literally). I do not understand this "suspicion of fathers" in Western societies, sleeping in the same bed with one's child can be construed as abuse is foolish but also dangerous for Indian families living in the west. They make "sleeping in the same bed" sound like doing some obscene act. Is it not possible for the father to love and care for his child just as a mother does? (OTOH, going to Sauna in digambar avastha with the whole family is considered normal, I do not have any qualms about it, for each his own, but they should not judge others from their prejudiced lenses either).

It might be the situation that due to widespread and frequent alchoholism in Scandinavian countries, it is advised to not sleep near a young baby (since the parent might not be in senses and roll over). But I am sure for most Indian parents, this is not the case. The prevalent thinking here considers parenting and child-birth as two separate things (also marriage and parenting are not considered to be connected things).

Basically, there is no assumed right of parents to their kids (state is the ultimate Mai-Baap). Brihaspatiji had referred to the concept of one's life not being independent but belonging to the state - this is the exact underlying moral-basis for taking away kids from one's parents. In India, authorities will be much more careful before taking away a child.

Barbarians have attained technological achievements. At the end of the day they are still barbarians. Barbarians also mistakenly think that their animalistic behaviour is aped by all humans all over the earth.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Jan 2012 23:13

Sociology behavior changes are being corporatised and being enforced with state laws

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jan 2012 01:00

finnair stewardesses/stewards performed a dance in a finnair flight from delhi to celebrate india's republic day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEsnb3kU ... ture=share

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2012 02:31

A lot of psychologists are studying the Stig Larsen's books popularity and if it reveals an underlying European malaise.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Jan 2012 04:46

Without getting into the details of the Indian family's case, Norway may have something to learn about child rearing.

Northwest Europe has had an ideal of children fit to be seen and not heard. A few decades ago englishman were encouraged to no more than shake hands with their children to demonstrate affection. I am not making this up. As some cultures have high rates of pedophilia, they may have developed taboos against bed sharing. This is something routine among Indians most of whom understand the difference between pedophillia/incest and bonding. Fortunately there is a movement in America towards the family bed. In many traditional cultures there are no strong taboos against parents having sex discreetly while young children are in the room.

It is relevant to examine the rates of developmental disorders and diagnoses of attention deficit disorder, autism, childhood depression, aggression and bullying as well as early school leaving, substance abuse, STDs and teenage pregnancies in northwest europe and Indian middle class families.

Just a correction to a post above, Norway is not known for technology. It was dirt poor, probably poorer than Ireland traditionally, until they dug a hole in the ground off sea somewhere

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Jan 2012 07:26

Services hold up India-EU BITA.

The proposed free trade agreement between India and the European Union (EU) has hit another snag with both the law and home ministries ruling out opening up the legal sector to foreign players. While a political framework for an agreement is likely during the annual summit beginning February 10, a formal signing of the pact is not on the agenda.
The Bar Council of India, a statutory body that regulates and represents the legal fraternity, has also thrown its weight behind the two departments, official sources told The Indian Express.

The 27-member European Union is keen to explore the services market in India. The country offers huge business opportunities in legal, accounting, banking, insurance and retail services. India, on the other hand, is looking forward to mainly harnessing the potential in the IT and ITeS sector. It also is keen to send its doctors, nurses and chefs to the European countries.

Both India and EU are vigorously pursuing talks and want an early conclusion. The newly-appointed Ambassador of the European Union to India, João Cravinho, recently said that a “political framework” for an agreement could be agreed upon, if not the entire free trade agreement during the annual summit.

The bilateral investment and trade agreement (BITA), as the deal is proposed to be christened, will open up markets on both sides for trade in goods, services and investment. The talks are on since 2007 and there have been 14 rounds of negotiations. Broadly, the trade agreement involves slashing of duties on over 90 per cent of the tariff lines and opening up mutual markets for services and investment. But contentious issues such as government procurement, market access, environment and services liberalisation are yet to be ironed out.

India’s exports to EU stood at $46.81 billion during 2010-11, up around 30 per cent over the previous year. This accounts for 18 per cent in India’s total export basket. Imports stood at $44.53 billion registering a growth of 15.89 per cent.

According to government officials, considerable progress has been made in talks relating to duties on pharmaceuticals, wine and automobiles.But negotiations in services, agricultural products and government procurement have remained contentious. India is not a part of the WTO government procurement agreement, which has been signed by 41 of the 153 members.

India joined the WTO’s GP agreement as an observer in 2010, but has refused to be part of it. It has maintained that if it signs such an agreement with any nation, same terms and conditions would be available to other bilateral partners too. “But EU wants it in an agreement form. So that is where it is stuck,” the official said.

In the services sector, the position is as follows:

Accounting services: Official sources say the ministry of overseas Indian affairs has favoured opening up the sector to foreign players since persons of Indian origin (PIOs) and non-resident Indians are already practising in the country.

Banking and insurance: The issue awaits clarity because the Indian side is not comfortable with different business jurisprudence in each of the 27 nations. Here, India is likely to adopt a quid-pro-quo approach.

Courier service and contractors: Officials say that lack of integration in the legal and market segment in the EU is the main obstacle.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Jan 2012 11:04

The problem with allowing services to the Europeans in India is this.

With the USA, India "shares" the same language of work, but offers a cost advantage. With the Europeans the scenario changes. The Europeans knowing English (working level knowledge) get access to services in India, but Indians not knowing the various European languages stay shut out from the same services!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 28 Jan 2012 21:14

News related to Eurozone crisis x-posting

India, Japan, South Korea join hands to avert European crisis damage in Asia

The united efforts of the three major Asian economies were shared with the delegates at the World Economic Forum meeting by Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda. Noda's announcement was followed by IMF chief Christine Lagarde warning euro crisis could spill over to other regions. "Japan is already working with South Korea and India to reduce the risk of the crisis spreading to Asia," Noda told WEF through a video-link from Tokyo, last evening.

Pointing out that Europe's crisis could be a major risk for the global economy, he said, "Japan stands ready to support the Eurozone as much as possible." In another session today, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) said, "No one is immune in the current situation... It is a crisis that could have collateral effect, spillover effect around the world. Everybody has an interest to solve this situation".

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Feb 2012 07:43

FTA held up as EU eyes PSU contracts.

The European Union's insistence on guaranteed access for all government and public sector contracts is proving to be a deal breaker for the free trade agreement ( FTA) with India.

The bilateral trade pact is delayed as the 27-nation trading bloc has little to offer on services and is insisting that India go beyond its domestic commitment on intellectual property rights. Besides, every now and then, the Europeans demand linking what India views as "non-trade issues" with the talks. Although India is only an observer in the talks on government procurement agreement at WTO, EU is insisting on market access in all central government entities and PSUs.

On its part, India has also told European negotiators that PM Manmohan Singh has announced the government's intention to put in place a centralized procurement law. But the proposed legislation will not cover public sector companies as the plan is to restrict the ambit to government purchases only. As a result, the government may offer some sort of a guarantee in central contracts.

But before India offers any concessions on the issue, it wants to internally debate if it makes sense to commit to open the government contracts business. A view in the government is that the size of orders in India will only go up as more money is spent on creating social and physical infrastructure to meet the demand of the growing population with a rising spend. In contrast, EU has an ageing population and slowing economy. In any case, several EU members are on a drive to cut spending.

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Feb 2012 18:08

Italian merchant vessel shoots up fishing boat and kills two Indian’s off the coast of Kerala.

How come the Italian Ambassador to India already knows that in killing the fisherman “protocol” was followed even though the investigating authorities, Indian in this case, are still looking into the matter

:

India summons Italian envoy over death of 2 fishermen

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Feb 2012 21:22

Mallus were killed. I'm pretty sure indisciplined and trigger-happy Italian naval personnel saw some SDREs and decided to go on full auto...probably thinking they were Somalis

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 16 Feb 2012 21:57

arun wrote:Italian merchant vessel shoots up fishing boat and kills two Indian’s off the coast of Kerala.

How come the Italian Ambassador to India already knows that in killing the fisherman “protocol” was followed even though the investigating authorities, Indian in this case, are still looking into the matter :

India summons Italian envoy over death of 2 fishermen

And what exactly was this protocol? Most probably some procedures that Italians themselves had decided to follow.I seriously doubt that each and every fisherman in India( numbering in lakhs probably) would have been instructed in any comprehensive international protocol(if there is any such thing) for identification in deep seas.

On a side note with large parts of Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea becoming Lawless , these kind of incidents are more likely to happen.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 16 Feb 2012 22:11

JE Menon wrote:Mallus were killed. I'm pretty sure indisciplined and trigger-happy Italian naval personnel saw some SDREs and decided to go on full auto...probably thinking they were Somalis

hope it is a sarcasm.
somalis so far out into Indian shores. They are near but not so near .
wiki Map

they shot 2 while the rest were sleeping in the boat.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Feb 2012 22:16

arun wrote:Italian merchant vessel shoots up fishing boat and kills two Indian’s off the coast of Kerala.

How come the Italian Ambassador to India already knows that in killing the fisherman “protocol” was followed even though the investigating authorities, Indian in this case, are still looking into the matter :

India summons Italian envoy over death of 2 fishermen

We need the scalps of those Italians. They need to be tried by Indian courts and hanged if found guilty which they are. "Capital Punishment" excuse be damned! If Italians are unwilling to cooperate, these guys need to apprehended in the high seas or from Italy itself, and then dragged to Indian justice!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2012 22:22

you know nothing of that sort will happen with GOI. a token money will be paid by the ship owner via italian govt and the ship will leave.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 16 Feb 2012 22:29

Too many loopholes in the story as yet. It seems it was a Merchant Vessel which hired guards off Suez for the trip. The guards may not be Italian nationals. Certainly it is not clear. A friend i know working for a British tanker company in the region says most guards are Russian federation ex Army types. So let the fog clear up before we throw hard opinions on whom to hang.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Feb 2012 22:31

harbans wrote:So let the fog clear up before we throw hard opinions on whom to hang.

Even if it was Russians, they should be hanged. It doesn't matter what nationality they were!

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Feb 2012 22:35

>>hope it is a sarcasm. somalis so far out into Indian shores. They are near but not so near .

Boss, no it is not sarcasm... You and I know Somalis won't be hanging around there, but you think these Italian guys know or care? That too in the dark? they probably saw some dark people on the boat and assumed they were somalis, and thought, hey, here's a good opportunity to get some kills in (and who gives a crap about some dead Somalis anyway...) and unloaded... The guy who survived was saying it was virtually raining bullets... Most of those on the boat were apparently asleep. And the Italians are not known for having the most disciplined military; unkil googal will throw up instances in various countries ...

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 19 Feb 2012 00:55

India wants captain of Italian ship to surrender by today

Krishna rejects Rome's plea for joint probe

New Delhi wants the captain of Italian ship Enrica Lexia and two marksmen who shot dead two Indian fishermen to surrender to Kerala Police on Sunday after several rounds of diplomatic confabulations on Saturday culminated in a telephonic conversation between External Affairs Minister S. M. Krishna and his Italian counterpart.

Rome wanted the three to be permitted to go in return for a joint investigation into the incident. But in the conversation late in the evening, Mr. Krishna turned down the offer an hour after Kerala Chief Minister Ooomen Chandy sought the Central assistance to persuade the captain and the two security personnel to give themselves up.

Mr. Krishna and the Indian Ambassador in Rome told the Italians that this was not a diplomatic row that could end with discussions. The question was that those responsible for killing two Indians must submit to the law of the land.

They should have arrested the italians first, put them in jails pending diplomatic meetings with italian govt.
why does SMK take permission for this also