J & K news and discussion

[Arun_S]

SUBVERSE: Lay off Kashmir - K Subrahmanyam

7 Nov 2008, 0001 hrs IST,
The incoming US president, Barack Obama, has suggested in an interview that he might consider sending former president Bill Clinton as a special
envoy to India and Pakistan on the Kashmir issue. He conceded that it was a diplomatic trap, yet wanted to devote serious diplomatic resources to send a special envoy. The purpose was to make the argument to us Indians that we are on the verge of becoming an economic superpower and it does not help us to keep the Kashmir issue burning. And, to ask Pakistanis why they would want to remain bogged down by Kashmir, particularly at a time when their biggest threat was coming from the Afghan border.

The president-elect could not have selected a worse moment to air these thoughts. Kashmir is due to go in for elections in the next few weeks. Such a suggestion will come in handy for secessionist elements.

It will compel the Indian government to declare that no special envoy will be acceptable. It will be difficult for Bill Clinton, who is popular and has a lot of friends in India, to come to this country as a special envoy without being greeted by demonstrators with black flags. When President Clinton offered to mediate in the Kargil war, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee politely declined.

Obviously, Obama had not been adequately briefed on the history of Afghanistan and Pakistan during the Clinton years. Otherwise he would not have missed that the Taliban was established by the Benazir Bhutto's government, with the help of the Pakistani army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) during 1994 when Clinton was in office. His administration tried to negotiate a pipeline deal with the Taliban. Osama bin Laden came back to Afghanistan and hatched the 9/11 plot under Clinton's watch. As the Pakistanis point out, the jihadis were a joint creation of the CIA, the Saudis and the ISI. The present threat to Pakistan on its western border is an outcome of this joint blunder.

India and Pakistan already have a no-war pact under the Simla agreement and there is a composite peace process going on between the two countries. Largely due to Indian initiative, cross-border trade has been initiated. All these steps have been taken without any third party help. Unlike Iran, Cuba and North Korea, India has never taken a stand against directly talking to another country with which it has problems.

One of the problems that India may have to face at the start of the Obama administration is the likely return of many former officials tainted by the cultivation of jihadi forces, who are tolerant towards the Taliban and permissive of the China-Pakistan nuclear proliferation axis. While Obama himself may have a tough line towards the mixing of faith and politics, many of the traditional Democratic party ex-diplomats, ex-militarymen and ex-intelligence officials may not be able to shun the cronyism they have indulged in with their Pakistani Counterparts.

This is likely to prove to be an albatross around Obama's neck in dealing with the Afghanistan-Pakistan issue. General Petraeus has been entrusted with formulating a new surge strategy for Afghanistan as the new chief of the central command. He has assembled a team of American, Pakistani and Afghan specialists. It will be useful to invite him for a comprehensive briefing to New Delhi.

This will provide Prime Minister Manmohan Singh an opportunity to prove that the Indo-US nuclear deal will not compromise India's strategic autonomy. Obama is a flexible intellectual with an acute sense of pragmatism.

Under the influence of non-proliferation ayatollahs during the deliberations on the Indo-US nuclear cooperation legislation, he did move a killer amendment. When he was outvoted, he went along with the majority and voted in favour of the Bill. Similarly, in this case it has to be explained to him that Pakistan's claim to Kashmir is based on the jihadi philosophy. His suggestion will only result in Pakistan continuing to evade its responsibility to act against both the Afghan and Pakistani sections of the Taliban.

The writer is a Delhi-based strategic affairs analyst.

[Mahendra]

Hizbul Commander Pest-e Shaheedized

[Y I Patel]

One can not misunderestimate the intensity with which US craves good news - any good news... given that both US and Pakistan would come to the table with their weakest hands, and India can go in with it's strongest, this might not be a bad time to get Unkil to rubber stamp whatever is already being negotiated anyway. There has never been a better time to give Clinton his cherished Nobel, give the Dems their reason to claim victory in solving a festering problem, and emerge as a moderate superpower willing to accommodate problem neighbors.

Clinton has a talent for coming up with lipstick for the pig - remember how he managed to get Pakistan off Kargil without it appearing like a humiliating downhill ride? We could expect some similar cosmetic concessions on India's part that make it look like H&D has been saved.

In the long run, some other terrorist will come to power in the pigsty and denounce whatever deal is done, but the denunciation will be robbed of all juice because the deal is will carry the 'legitimacy' of an international solution. On the other hand, if we let this feud fester on, it has the potential of gaining strength from India's strength - paradoxically, the stronger and more vital India becomes, the higher profile this problem will continue to have, with or without involvement from Pakistan. Unfortunately, what was done by the introduction of the issue to UN cannot be undone without international involvement. That's the way the world works. So let's work with it and make best use of this opening.

[CRamS]

Y .I. Patel:

I am not so sure. If cosmetic consessions are all that is required from India, Obama's handlers would have conveyed that to India back channel before going public. They would have called up India and said:

look, we are going to go public with this Kashmir doo daa, but be rest assured, we are not asking you to do anything more than what you want: LoC == IB. However, it must be cast in a way that preserves the H&D of TSP etc etc.

The Indian reaction clearly indicates that there was no discussion prior to the announcement. Given that Obama is surrounded by India haters: HalfBright, Brezenski etc, and con-men like Clinton, it is clear to me at least that they want India to make territorial concessions to TSP as a way of buying their support to go after so called "Al Quaeda".

Think about it for a minute. Obama made all kinds of bogus promises during the campaign. If he can deliver Kashmir to TSP, and in return, if he can get TSP to go after US's 'bad guys' big time (which is a certainty given TSP's neurotic obsession to grab the valley; they will even sell their moms to anyone who can help them with this objective), inclduing delivering Osama Bin Ladin if he is still alive, boy oh boy, Obama would achieve messianic status in US. Thus, based on Indian reaction, it apperas that Obama & Co are least concerned about rewarding TSP for its sponsorship of terror in Kashmir as long as their so called "Al Quaeda" objectives are met.

[CRamS]

deleted

[Avinash R]

Kashmiri pundits launch political party
Zaffar Iqbal

Sunday, November 09, 2008, (Jammu)

With elections starting in Jammu and Kashmir in about a week, the state will have a new political party this time. Kashmiri pundits have launched their own party in an effort to give representation to the members of the community and find ways for their return to the Kashmir Valley.

They have floated a political party called the Jammu Kashmir National United Front to give their problems a new voice.

"The political parties are doing an appeasement policy, with the result that our problems are not highlighted. To highlight our problems we have launched JKNUF," said A K Diwani, President, JKNUF.

The JKNUF is reaching out to all Kashmiri pundits living in migrant camps in Jammu. The party will contest 14 seats in the Valley. Rakesh Handoo, the candidate from Hazratbal is pitted against National Conference veteran Farooq Abdullah.

"So far the family rule is taking place, we want to end it and bring new faces and people to the forefront," said Rakesh Handoo, Member, JKNUF.

Militancy triggered the exodus of over four lakh Kashmiri pundits in the early 90s.

The JKNUF now wants satellite colonies for the pundits in the Valley. Of the 72 thousand migrants in Jammu, nearly 13 thousand people will be first-time voters.

Surinder is one such first-timer who has never been to his hometown Kupwara, but is keen to have someone from his community represent the constituency.

"We want to see that our candidate wins, so that our problems are also solved," said Surinder Bhat, member, JKNUF.

It's an effort by Kashmiri pundits to show that they are relevant in the upcoming state elections. Though it may not be easy for them to go out and campaign in the Valley, they want to send across a message and their voice cannot be ignored.

[RajeshA]

It would be best if the J&K State Legislature has non-geographical seats for the displaced Kashmiris (mostly Hindu Kashmiris) living anywhere in the world including in J&K. That would mean, that the displaced Kashmiri Hindus will always get representation, and would always remain a party to contend with in J&K politics despite the efforts of the Jihadis to get rid of them through ethnic cleansing.

[Avinash R]

^You cant vote like that. You have to live in the area and have a valid identification card to vote. Even if your suggestion is taken as valid in which constituency will these voters vote?

[RajeshA]

Non-Resident Kashmir Constituency (NEW).

One can have several such non-geographic seats in proportion to the geographical seats of the State Assembly in which the Kashmiris Muslims will be voting.

Election Commission can make arrangements for voting by displaced Kashmiris, either in the refugee camps of J&K, in the embassies of India abroad, or even by postal votes.

That way there will always be Kashmiri Pandits sitting in the State Assembly taking part in the politics of the State and supporting those parties, who are willing to see to create the necessary political atmosphere and make arrangements for the Kashmiri Hindus to return to Kashmir Valley.

[Avinash R]

Non-Resident Kashmir Constituency (NEW). One can have several such non-geographic seats in proportion to the geographical seats of the State Assembly in which the Kashmiris Muslims will be voting.Election Commission can make arrangements for voting by displaced Kashmiris, either in the refugee camps of J&K, in the embassies of India abroad, or even by postal votes.

This is not possible mainly because voters list are prepared by election commission based upon the person's current residence and not previous place of stay. The election commission has no possible way of determining whether the said person is a kashmir pandit or not. So instead of conducting elections the EC would have to go around conducting investigations on millions of kashmiri pandits.

That way there will always be Kashmiri Pandits sitting in the State Assembly taking part in the politics of the State and supporting those parties, who are willing to see to create the necessary political atmosphere and make arrangements for the Kashmiri Hindus to return to Kashmir Valley.

The main thing that will lead to return of kashmir pandits to their home is the change in the attitude of muslims in kashmir. If they were not hostile to the hindus then this displacement would not have occurred in the first place. No amount of electing kashmiri pandits to j&k assembly can change the attitude of local muslims towards kashmiris hindus.

[RajeshA]

Non-Resident Kashmir Constituency (NEW). One can have several such non-geographic seats in proportion to the geographical seats of the State Assembly in which the Kashmiris Muslims will be voting.Election Commission can make arrangements for voting by displaced Kashmiris, either in the refugee camps of J&K, in the embassies of India abroad, or even by postal votes.

This is not possible mainly because voters list are prepared by election commission based upon the person's current residence and not previous place of stay. The election commission has no possible way of determining whether the said person is a kashmir pandit or not. So instead of conducting elections the EC would have to go around conducting investigations on millions of kashmiri pandits.

That way there will always be Kashmiri Pandits sitting in the State Assembly taking part in the politics of the State and supporting those parties, who are willing to see to create the necessary political atmosphere and make arrangements for the Kashmiri Hindus to return to Kashmir Valley.

The main thing that will lead to return of kashmir pandits to their home is the change in the attitude of muslims in kashmir. If they were not hostile to the hindus then this displacement would not have occurred in the first place. No amount of electing kashmiri pandits to j&k assembly can change the attitude of local muslims towards kashmiris hindus.

There are things that are given as difficult and not really in our control. Indian Government cannot really control if and when the Kashmiri Muslims would feel differently about allowing Kashmiri Pundits to return to their previous homes in the Valley. Allowing Kashmiri Hindus to participate in electoral politics within Kashmir, even from outside of Kashmir would force the political forces in Kashmir, which partake in electoral politics of the state and country, to deal with a new reality of new members of state assembly. If they want to form governments in the state, they may have to cut political deals with the party or parties of Kashmiri Hindus, giving the latter more say.

As far as the electoral laws are concerned, those can be easily changed, considering that the Kashmiri Hindus have been forced from their homes, and there is no way they can be part of the electoral lists then of the corresponding constituencies. I am sure, not even the rabid Kashmiri parties would be able to defend a position of opposition to this idea.

[jamwal]

Keralite held for terror links

http://dailyexcelsior.com/

KANNUR, Nov 9: Kerala Police today arrested a 27-year-old man suspected to be a close associate of the kingpin of a network involved in recruiting cadres for Kashmir-based militant groups. Mohammed Nainar (27) was picked up from the District hospital area here this morning for his role in supporting terrorist activities and motivating a local youth Md Fayaz, killed in an encounter in Jammu and Kashmir last month, to join Kashmir-based militant outfits, Special Investigation Deputy Superintendent of Police V K Akbar told.

With this, the number of persons arrested for their links with terrorists had risen to four. Abdul Jaleel and Md Faisal were arrested last month while P Mujeeb was held on Nov 3.

Nainar is a close associate of elusive T Nazeer, the alleged mastermind behind the recruitment of youths from Kerala for Kashmir-based militant groups.

He used to attend the ‘study classes’ held at the chicken stall run here by Faisal and inspired him to join the ultra camp, police said.

The alleged links between Kashmir-based terrorist outfits and persons from Kerala came to light after the arrest of Jaleel, who got several calls on his mobile phone from the slain terrorists from the Northern State.

[Neshant]

local youth Md Fayaz, killed in an encounter5

close encounters of the 3rd kind.

[Prem]

A marriage is arranged
By A.G. Noorani ( is he Indian or not)



The most striking thing about them is their studied restraint on some issues that vex the people, e.g. discrimination in the services. “No commissioner or secretary in the state government is a Muslim,” The Hindustan Times reported on Aug 17. “There have been only two Muslim DGPs — ever.” Most top police posts are with non-Muslims. Most senior civil servants and police officers are Hindu (so what you idiot). Here is an issue on which the PDP and the NC could have gone to town legitimately without compromising their stand on Kashmir’s accession to India. But neither risks annoying New Delhi. The same holds good for torture, release of detainees, withdrawal of the army from prized lands, including orchards, etc.

Today N.N. Vohra is governor. For the Abdullahs it is now or never. Defeat spells oblivion. Yet, victory will earn added disrepute. New Delhi will have to talk the Hurriyat and to Pakistan. The impact on the peace process of this farce can well be imagined.

[sum]

Link

The threads of life: Story from the Valley

HARSH MANDER

Through the vicious cycle of violence that has gripped the Valley and wreaked havoc in her family, a slender thread still binds Shameem to her life…

She does not know whether such an ordinary life — of peace and the quiet happiness and honest toil — will be within reach of even her young son.

There are dark evenings when middle-aged widow Shameem trudges down to banks of the river Jhelum, which flows not far from her home in a village in the mountains of Kashmir. She ties stones to her body, and contemplates suicide. She longs for rest and solace in the only place left where she feels that she can attain these: the cold lap of the river bed. But she is held back each time by thoughts of her young teenaged son, unsteady of mind and body, who was a baby when his father was killed at point blank range in front of his children in his home.

Shameem did not suspect initially that her husband Ghulam Mohammed had joined the militants in 1991. There were many times when she found his bed empty at night, but he told her that he was tending patients. He ran two successful medical stores. He also left home for days at a stretch, but assured her that this was part of his duties with the State government where he was employed as a medical assistant. Those were the heady early days of the insurgency, when militants were celebrated as freedom fighters. They were turbaned and feted in many homes before they left for training camps across the border.
Frightening predicament

Three years passed this way. It was when army soldiers first brutally raided their home that she discovered that her husband was a militant. One day Ghulam shared his frightening predicament with his wife. By that time, the militant groups had fragmented into factions, some of which had fallen into murderous blood feuds with other groups. Ghulam’s own splinter group had been reduced to a minority, and he feared that insurgents of other factions would take his life. Shameem’s father counselled that his only hope was to surrender to the army, and become a counter-insurgent renegade, or what they locally called themselves: ikwani (which translates ironically into “brother”).

The ikwanis were bitterly hated by the Kashmiri people. Armed by the security forces, they became a law unto themselves, arbitrarily looting and killing like brigands whom none could control. But it was still only with the protection of the powerful army that they believed that her husband had any chance of survival, and Shameem therefore persuaded her husband to surrender to the army. Her father arranged for him to meet the local commanding officer. Ghulam was given arms and a security guard by the armed forces.

In this way Ghulam desperately held onto his life, but late one night in 1995, the militant faction ambushed his home, raining bullets and grenades during a four-hour gun battle. Ghulam returned fire, and ultimately survived the attack. However, the gun battle left dead his young daughter and Shameem’s younger brother who was visiting, as well as four other visiting renegades. His older son was badly injured.

A year later, he was walking in his orchard when he was shot at again. His security guard fell dead, and Ghulam’s leg was pumped with bullets. Harrowing months followed as Shameem struggled for medical care to save the life and the leg of her husband. Later, after three surgeries in Srinagar, the doctors pronounced that they had no option but to cut off his leg. “I loved him a lot”, Shameem told us simply. “I could not bear to see him suffer this way”. She resolutely sold all their orchard land, and took him to Delhi for prolonged treatment. She spent Rs. 7,00,000, and ultimately he was able to walk again, although with support. While they were away, Shameem’s father and other brother were also killed in their home.

When they returned to their village in 1998, Ghulam hobbling on his crutches, he published an advertisement in the newspapers, begging everyone for forgiveness, publicly breaking his links with every organisation he was associated with in the past, and pleading for another chance to only quietly live. But one night, he was visited at his home by his unforgiving militant former comrades. They ate his food, but while parting, they pounded his other good leg with a burst of bullets. His little daughter who witnessed the encounter recounts that he called back the departing militants, unbuttoned his shirt, and shouted that if they had to kill him, they should do it in one blow, not bit by bit. “We have sold our lands and all our belongings. How will my family look after me now? If you will not let me live”, he pleaded, “shoot me in my heart”. This was his one appeal that they heeded. They fired into his chest, and he fell dead in a heap before his distraught young daughter. His younger son was also in the room, but still a baby.
Lonely life

For many years, Shameem laboured in people’s homes and farms to feed her children, but she could herself eat sometimes once in three days. Eventually, as the widow of a surrendered militant, Shameem was employed in a government job as an office peon. But the family was ostracised by the village as renegade traitors. Her teenaged son Aftab disappeared one day returning from school. She learnt later that unable to bear the burdens of the stigma of being the offspring of a treacherous ikwani, he had joined the militants. He was all of 13 years old at that time. But he was mortally frightened and could not redeem himself as a freedom fighter. He returned to his mother, further shamed and utterly defeated, one night just three weeks later.

Shameem now was afraid not just of the militants, but also the army, as she was not just the widow of a renegade but also the mother of a “militant”. She felt that her best bet was to hand her boy over to the Kashmir police. “At least they are our own people”. They held the boy for a few months before returning him to his mother. Since then, he just lost his mind. She hoped in her desperation that he would heal if he married, and she found him a bride at the age of 14 years. He is 19 now, with a four-year-old son. But none of this has brought him peace. He does not study or work. He has taken to drugs and alcohol. He often gets into a fury, breaking what he can in their home. The Special Task Force of the army picks him up periodically, and a year earlier returned him with a broken leg.
Binding thread

The thread that still binds her to life is her younger teenaged son, who was a small child in the same room when his father was killed. She has lost to the cycles of violence that have engulfed the valley for three decades nearly everyone she loved in her life: her husband, her daughter, her father, her two brothers, and — although he is alive in body — her older son. It is in her withdrawn, timid and unsteady youngest child that she invests her last hopes and dreams.

She wanted an ordinary life: a loving spouse with whom she would raise her children, and let them free to the world as good human beings when the time was right. It is the tragedy of her homeland that even this humble aspiration was so completely unattainable for her. Indeed she does not know whether such an ordinary life — of peace and the quiet happiness of a family and of honest toil — will be within reach of even her young son: the slender thread who still ties her to this life.

Comparitively sane article from the Hon. Mr Mander...
However, unavble to understand as to how can you sympathise with obvious anti-nationals...being a militant is ok but being a Ikhwan(i.e, pro-India) is "treacherous" as the article says??

[Neshant]

I am more inclined to sympathise with the innocent people this dude killed while he was a medical assistant by day and terrorist by night.

[a_kumar]

I am curious.. Was there ever a thread for articles to highlight POK and its plight?

I rarely see any articles on that in Indian media while West and Pakistan is all over the J&K situation.. Whats with the imbalance?

[vsudhir]

I am curious.. Was there ever a thread for articles to highlight POK and its plight?

I rarely see any articles on that in Indian media while West and Pakistan is all over the J&K situation.. Whats with the imbalance?

Good question.

One reason for this imbalance is that we armchair analysts depend on documented news sources and stories for most of our thread material. And there are no press reports coming out of the oppressed regions like POK, Xinjiang, Baloch etc.

Whereas the free media on our side of the LoC enables all manner of commentary.

Still, wonder why GoI does not institute a news service specifically targetting POK. It could be nominally independent news agency that send its output to BRF among other places.....

[RamaY]

I am curious.. Was there ever a thread for articles to highlight POK and its plight?

I rarely see any articles on that in Indian media while West and Pakistan is all over the J&K situation.. Whats with the imbalance?

I mentioned it earlier. One telugu news paper, Andhrabhoomi, is carrying a serial on POK and its plight.

I will try to translate the few episodes I saved. The site doesnt archive.

[vsudhir]

Fruitless business in Srinagar

Plenty of sour grapes going around apparently, esp after all that bravado.

Srinagar: The absence of telecom and banking facilities is hitting the recently-started cross-border trade in Jammu & Kashmir. Fruit growers and traders in the Valley have decided to stop sending their consignments to Muzaffarabad in PoK.“We don’t know what happened to the 7,000 fruit boxes we sent to Muzaffarabad.

They were worth Rs 35 lakh,” says Haji Farooq Ahmed Malik, president, Kashmir Valley Fruit Buyer's Association. The cross-LoC trade began on October 21 on the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and Poonch-Rawalkote routes after 60 years.
—Aijaz Hussain

[Gerard]

We don’t know what happened to the 7,000 fruit boxes we sent to Muzaffarabad

[svinayak]

We don’t know what happened to the 7,000 fruit boxes we sent to Muzaffarabad

It has been sold back to India

[Neshant]

We don’t know what happened to the 7,000 fruit boxes we sent to Muzaffarabad

LOL !

[CRamS]

The Beeb is already celebrating India's embarassement following the impending polls in J&K.

But not to endorse the views of TSP or their Hurriyat pigs, but it neverthless begs the question as to what is India trying to achieve through these useless elections? The last time around, in 2002, India conducted a good election at great cost (both monetary and human) despite every attempt by TSP to sabotage the polls, and things are where they have always been. So why is India wasting time with this nonsense? Unless there is a Chankyan master strategy, I would say better use of India's resources would be to make life difficult for the likes of BeeB, CNN etc, and covertly give the Hurriyat rats and their supporters the Guantanamo bay type treatment the pigs deserve.

[vsudhir]

The Beeb is already celebrating India's embarassement following the impending polls in J&K.

But not to endorse the views of TSP or their Hurriyat pigs, but it neverthless begs the question as to what is India trying to achieve through these useless elections? The last time around, in 2002, India conducted a good election at great cost (both monetary and human) despite every attempt by TSP to sabotage the polls, and things are where they have always been. So why is India wasting time with this nonsense? Unless there is a Chankyan master strategy, I would say better use of India's resources would be to make life difficult for the likes of BeeB, CNN etc, and covertly give the Hurriyat rats and their supporters the Guantanamo bay type treatment the pigs deserve.

The hurrirats' b@lls are in Dilli's ironfist. Should withdraw their security cover even for 24 hrs, no telling how many pieces there'd be count.

The beeb and cnn etc are bit players in a larger game. No point losing hard-won ground-reality in a rush of blood. My sense is Dilli is indeed playing chankian here, waiting out TSP's 9 lives before the rest of J&K is reclaimed and the 'special status' nonsense dispensed with.

Whereas normally polls mean some goodwill among aam janta, the kashmiri IMs, who tacitly and often overtly precipitated and supported the ethnic cleansing of Pandits from the valley, are beyond being won over by a bona fide democratic process. Strictly IMHO, of course.

[a_kumar]

Good question.

One reason for this imbalance is that we armchair analysts depend on documented news sources and stories for most of our thread material. And there are no press reports coming out of the oppressed regions like POK, Xinjiang, Baloch etc.

Whereas the free media on our side of the LoC enables all manner of commentary.

Still, wonder why GoI does not institute a news service specifically targetting POK. It could be nominally independent news agency that send its output to BRF among other places.....

Yeah.. maybe India should restrict the foriegn media access to J&K as much as POK, so beeb and cnn are kept out. Its ridiculous how Pakis get away with all the crap they do in POK.

I mentioned it earlier. One telugu news paper, Andhrabhoomi, is carrying a serial on POK and its plight.

I will try to translate the few episodes I saved. The site doesnt archive.

Yes, you did.. thanks again for the pointer. I am trying to see if Andhrabhoomi can provide any archives of this. In the meantime, I may be able to help with couple of translations.

But, going back to the earlier question, I am looking for some english press (Indian, Pakistani, western whatever). There should ideally be a thread on plight of POK, with a few posts appearing now and then. Just getting started on searching for some..

[jamwal]

We don’t know what happened to the 7,000 fruit boxes we sent to Muzaffarabad

Last time I read about it in local papers,Indian traders were complaining that Pakis had sent them bills for gift items exchanged during the inauguration ceremony.
While the payments for items sent for business was still not received.

[Lalmohan]

what happens to POK when Pak melts down?

[Prasad]

We have open borders don't we?

[a_kumar]

what happens to POK when Pak melts down?

That is a big "when" if you ask me. This isn't the first time Pakistan is in this state and won't be the last time.

As I say, "Its the proud who fall, parasites survive somehow"!!

Only country in whose interest it is to see this fall through, has leaders with no balls/vision/self-respect and P-sec is their identity. 1971 was a rare one, helped by the fact that its territories was seperated by hundreds of miles.

[Rahul M]

seems nobody is watching the elections.
jamwal sahab, kya haal hai aap ka area ka ?


http://sify.com/news/politics/fullstory.php?id=14799915

64 pc polling in J&K
Tuesday, 18 November , 2008, 01:59


Srinagar/Jammu: Defying a boycott call by Muslim separatists, a high 64 percent of the voters cast their ballots peacefully in the first phase of the staggered assembly elections in troubled Jammu and Kashmir on Monday.

According to late night revised polling estimates by state election commission official B R Sharma, the percentage stood at 63.75 - way beyond the 55 they had estimated initially.

[Gerard]

Soldier's Kashmir 'rape attempt'

Police in Pakistan-administered Kashmir are investigating reports that a soldier attempted to rape a local girl. The alleged incident took place on Monday near the town of Hattian in Jhelum district.

This is not the first incident of its kind involving Pakistan army troops in Kashmir. In July 2005, three soldiers were charged with raping a woman near the town of Athmuqam in the Neelum valley. The case was later shelved after an army investigation decided the charges were "unsubstantiated".

[anishns]

The title of this news is misleading!

Soldier's Kashmir 'rape attempt'

Shouldn't they they highlight the fact that it's POK or at least Paki Administered Kashmir

Soldier's Kashmir 'rape attempt'

Police in Pakistan-administered Kashmir are investigating reports that a soldier attempted to rape a local girl. The alleged incident took place on Monday near the town of Hattian in Jhelum district.

This is not the first incident of its kind involving Pakistan army troops in Kashmir. In July 2005, three soldiers were charged with raping a woman near the town of Athmuqam in the Neelum valley. The case was later shelved after an army investigation decided the charges were "unsubstantiated".

[Gerard]

Indian troops kill four terrorists in Kashmir: police

The four were killed overnight in the mountainous Uri district near the Line of Control

[a_kumar]

Soldier's Kashmir 'rape attempt'

Gerard,

May I request this to be posted in new thread? I propose "Atrocities in POK" or a more general "Oppression in POK".

I would have done that myself if I found this first

[jamwal]

seems nobody is watching the elections.
jamwal sahab, kya haal hai aap ka area ka ?

Election fever hasn't still gripped Jammu completely yet. A little campaigning has started but it'll take a few weeks before it gathers enough steam. Elections aren't much useful without delimitation anyway. First phase of elections were held in comparitively remote parts of Laddakh, Jammu and Kashmir (none of the places participated in recent protests on Amarnath issue in a big way). Most of these areas even in Kashmir have Gujjars/Pahadis in majority. It'd be interesting to see what happens in Srinagar and adjoining areas.


Muftis are back to what they do best.

Sinha threatens to sue Mufti
http://earlytimes.in/

11/18/2008 12:25:46 AM


AGENCIES
NEW DELHI, Nov 17: Former governor of Jammu and Kashmir S K Sinha on Monday rubbished the allegations made by National Conference (NC) and Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) leaders Farooq Abdullah and Mufti Mohammad Sayeed about having links with Hindu seer and Malegaon blast accused Dayanand Pandey.
They had sought a probe into reports of proximity between Dayanand Pandey, arrested in connection with Malegaon blasts, and the former Governor Gen (Retd) S K Sinha.
Speaking to reporters in New Delhi, Sinha has warned Mufti that he would consider legal recourse against such baseless accusations; and that if they could do so, he could also link them to radical outfits.
Sinha threatened legal action against Mufti for accusing him of having ties with a Malegaon bomb blast accused. “I do not know this chap (Swami Amritanand alias Dayanand Pandey). The first time I heard about him was about 10 days ago when his name started appearing in media reports (following his arrest). I am thinking of a legal course on this,” Sinha told reporters in New Delhi.
"These are totally malicious allegations. These allegations coming on the eve of elections in the state is unfortunate. As far as the chap (Dayanand Pandey) is concerned, I don't know him; I never met him. First time I heard about him was from the newspapers." said Sinha, who had strained relations with the PDP during his tenure.
"I can take legal recourse. It would be as absurd as saying Mufti has links with Osama bin Laden. This is surprising," (I don't think it's absurd) he added.
Pandey, who frequently visited the state, was a guest of the former governor and stayed at the Raj Bhawan in Srinagar in 2007, the PDP patron alleged at a news conference.
This showed Pandey's "connections" with the ex-governor and this should be probed, Sayeed said. Pandey was arrested on November12 and sent to judicial custody by a Nashik court.
"Frequent visits by Pandey to the state and his being entertained by the former governor raises suspicion...," he had said, adding the matter needed to be probed in the background of alleged involvement of some army officers in the Malegaon blasts.
Sayeed said the alleged involvement of seers and army officers in Malegaon blasts was dangerous, adding authorities should also probe the "linkage" of such elements with Kashmir militancy.(He got his own daughter kidnapped to start terrorism in first place)
Asked whether he had differences with the ex-governor on the Amarnath land issue, Sayeed said he wanted implementation of Sengupta committee's recommendations, including limiting the number of devotees undertaking the Amarnath pilgrimage.
But, Sinha was adamant and did not agree with the advice of his government, he alleged.

[jamwal]

Ikhwanis ferried

Saerkote (Bandipora), Nov 17: People in Bandipora constituency said that counter insurgent turned politician Usman Majeed and notorious renegade Kukka Parray’s son Imtiyaz Parray who is contesting as an independent candidate, with tacit support of the State administration, were ferrying Ikhwanis to cast votes at different polling centres in Bandipora on Monday.
Javed Ahmed of Saderkote Bala Bandipora said that Majeed and Parray were ferrying the notorious Ikhwanis in vehicles from one polling booth to another to cast votes.
“Imtiyaz Parray ferried voters from some other place giving them huge bucks,” Javed said.
Locals said that this created an impression that Saderkote was witnessing brisk polling.
However many residents of the area forced Parray’s “borrowed voters” to leave the area. “Casting vote is playing with the blood of martyrs. We won’t allow anybody to cast votes in Saderkote. If somehow these people manage to cast their votes we will burn their houses later to teach them a lesson,” they said.
http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php? ... 5&Itemid=1

No coercion this time in once Ikhwan bastion

Sonawari (Bandipora), Nov 17: While most of the constituencies – which went on polls in the first phase on Monday – saw an increase in the voter turnout compared to 2002 elections, this north Kashmir constituency saw a decline.
While officials put the voter turnout in 2002 at 56.1 percent, the turnout saw a decline this time with only 43 percent people casting their votes.
Once bastion of counter- insurgency, people didn’t face any coercion this time either from the Army or from the government gunmen, which was a trend in 1996 and 2002 elections.
Muhammad Akbar Lone of National Con¬ference won the constituency in 2002 elections when he defeated his nearest rival Muham¬mad Yousuf Parray alias Kuka Parray of Awami League by a margin of 12, 758 votes. Lone polled 25, 687 votes out of the total 44, 246 votes polled while as Parray polled 12, 929 votes
“The constituency this time didn’t see much activity of political parties. Previously in 1996 and 2002, Ikhwanis (government gunmen) would force us to participate in elections. But this time, whosoever wished to boycott wasn’t forced by anybody,” said Muneer Ahmad Wagay, a resident of Hakbara.
“The fear created by Kuka Parray and his men in previous elections was the reason for higher turnout. They would threaten us if we didn’t vote. Those were the terrible days for us,” he added.
Interestingly, now Awami League candidate and late Kuka Parray’s son, Imtiyaz Parray was sitting at home on the day of polling. “I don’t want to go out, as my people are working over¬time. Although NC activists at several places have indulged in rigging, it is upto the Election Commission to take a decision. We have filed a complaint,” he said.
Imtiyaz, 25, says he was a carpet weaver and joined politics after his father’s death. “There won’t be impact of boycott much in my constitu¬ency. Had elections been held, two months back, there might have been some impact.”
Imtiyaz doesn’t want to talk much about the past. “Past is past and I don’t want to remember it.”
While some enthusiastic youth were seen shouting anti-election slogans at Sumbal, Hak¬bara and Naidkhai, there was hardly any im¬pact of Hurriyat Conference’s boycott call. But still the polling percentage was less compared to 2002.
“Several youth have been killed in our area in recent uprising. How can we vote when our brothers gave sacrifices for a cause,” asked Ashiq Ashraf, a resident of Sumbal.
Sonawari is the third constituency of the newly- created Bandipora district having 84772 registered voters (including 46 service electors) including 43766 male and 41006 female voters for 2008 elections. In comparison, there were 78, 299 voters for the 2002 elections. The total num¬ber of polling stations in the constituency were 101.
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_stor ... D=63&cat=1

Both news reports claiming different versions.
Seems like Gilani has a change of heart

[sum]

"I can take legal recourse. It would be as absurd as saying Mufti has links with Osama bin Laden. This is surprising," he added.

For this one comment of Gen Sinha, Ms. Jayanthi "mother of secularism" Natrajan of Kangress went ballistic saying that Gen Sinha was being communal and he could have said "undesirable person" instead of saying Osama . Also, when Chanda Mitra(the Pioneer) pointed that that Farooq Abdulah(one of the panelists) was photographed with many shady characters, Farooq just brushed it aside saying that no one can control who gets photographed with a politico since their job is to meet people. All the panelists agreed but when Gen Sinha said the same(when asked if he met the "terror guru" Dayanand (which are the words of Arnab Goswami)), the "secular brigade" started screaming murder asking as to how could a governor forget the people he met during his tenure?

Sometimes i wonder if the "seculars" in India are for real?

Also, wonder what Lahori logic does 'Times Now' follow when it invites a Paki general(Gen Quraishi) to be in the panel discussing the J&K elections?

[svinayak]

"I can take legal recourse. It would be as absurd as saying Mufti has links with Osama bin Laden. This is surprising," he added.

For this one comment of Gen Sinha, Ms. Jayanthi "mother of secularism" Natrajan of Kangress went ballistic saying that Gen Sinha was being communal and he could have said "undesirable person" instead of saying Osama . Also, when Chanda Mitra(the Pioneer) pointed that that Farooq Abdulah(one of the panelists) was photographed with many shady characters, Farooq just brushed it aside saying that no one can control who gets photographed with a politico since their job is to meet people. All the panelists agreed but when Gen Sinha said the same(when asked if he met the "terror guru" Dayanand (which are the words of Arnab Goswami)), the "secular brigade" started screaming murder asking as to how could a governor forget the people he met during his tenure?

Sometimes i wonder if the "seculars" in India are for real?

Also, wonder what Lahori logic does 'Times Now' follow when it invites a Paki general(Gen Quraishi) to be in the panel discussing the J&K elections?

We have a demagoguery crowd and a enforcement group which is not under any control.

[RajeshA]

Cross-posting from Indo-US thread:

Is Kashmir key to Afghan peace? by Mark Sappenfield: Christian Science Monitor

As part of his push to find new solutions to the war in Afghanistan, President-elect Barack Obama is considering a new diplomatic push on Kashmir, reversing eight years of American silence on the issue.

Mark Sappenfield is CSMonitor's correspondent in India. This guy needs to some serious enlightening about the facts on the ground.

The US media seems to be latching on to this angle. The solution is again:

1. Enlighten the world again
o about the significance of Jammu and Kashmir to the secular fabric of India,
o about the legitimacy of J&K's accession to India,
o about devious politics of the major powers when they scripted the UN Resolutions on Kashmir, and corroborating evidence to support these claims
o about the historical integration and connectivity of J&K with the rest of India from pre-Islamic Period and after
o about the democratic political and electoral process in J&K since several decades
o about Kashmiri political parties and civil groups, who support India
o about the rights of J&K citizens in the Indian Constitution including cultural and linguistic freedoms and support
o about the budgetary support to development of State of J&K
o about the logistical support given by the Indian Army to remote settlements in J&K
o about the significance of Kashmir Valley in providing India transit to remote places in Ladakh, etc.
o about the centrality of J&K in securing water resources for India
o about the strategic significance of J&K for India
o about India's fair-play in allowing access to these water resources by Pakistan through the IWT
o about the ethnic mix in J&K
o about the continuing assurances of India to J&K in good faith, not to change the ethnic composition of the State since Independence
o about the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pundits by the Islamists, and the horrors they have had to face
o about the continuous Wahhabization and radicalization of the Kashmiri Muslim faith
o about the infiltration and cross-border terrorism perpetuated by the ISI and ISI-trained terrorist organizations
o about the connections between active terrorist groups in J&K and Al Qaida
o about the intimidation of the local populace, e.g. Shias and Gujjars by the fundamentalists
o about the very moderated and nuanced response of India to separatist activities, in contrast to how China, Russia, Pakistan deal with their separatists
o about the Simla Accord
o about the ongoing Peace Process between India and Pakistan
o about the fact that it is not TSP fear but rather TSP obsession which fuels the Kashmir conflict
o about the TSP Psychosis against India and its national identity crisis since the last 61 years and more

2. Build a Firewall:
o the Indian civil society should strengthen its resolve to hold on to J&K
o the Indian Media should be brought under control to stick to the patriotic line
o the GoI and Indian bureaucracy should strengthen its backbone,
o GoI should practice its arguments and line of defense of India's position for various audiences: US Media, Indian Media, UN, foreign governments, OIC, EU Parliament, Obama and his Administration
o India would not sacrifice India's national interests in J&K or elsewhere, to help US wash its litany of sins and crimes in the Muslim World or try to appease the Pakistan and other Muslims at our cost

3. Build a Policy:
o refuse 3rd Party Arbitration point blank
o let Obama know that US Administration hands-off position forms the bedrock of trust on which the current good Indo-US relations are based
o never yield on India's claims over PoK and Northern Areas
o show US how India's hold over J&K (and expansion of control Northwards) is beneficial to stability in Central Asia, and US interests
o point to other policy areas in the region, where US attention may be better served

4. Continue to create new facts on the ground favorable to the Indian national interests

JMTs