People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Apr 2010 04:07

^^ Isnt this same as the British retreat from East of Aden policy? This Garrett strategy leaves the near China seas to China to dominate and keeps 'control' in far away places?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Apr 2010 05:02

On eve of Shanghai Expo 2010, China finds 'soft power' an elusive goal

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 30 Apr 2010 08:08

AnimeshP wrote:From China's mouth to Texans' ears: Outreach includes small station in Galveston

Beijing's new response is typically massive and ambitious: a $6.6 billion global strategy to create media giants that will challenge agenda-setting Western behemoths such as Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., the BBC and CNN.

With Wendi Deng waiting in the wings to take over News Corp after old man Murdoch, the goal will be much easily/effectively achieved. One fine morning Fox/WSJ will start parroting the CPCC line on every major geopolitical issue.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Apr 2010 14:06

Being students seems to be rapidly set to joining miners as being a high risk occupation in PR China.

A third attack on children in school in as many days:

Five children hurt in third China school attack in three days

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 30 Apr 2010 22:48

China: Diplomat beaten, injured by Houston police
DALLAS — Three Houston police officers have been restricted to desk duty after they followed a Chinese diplomat into the parking garage of the Chinese Consulate, arrested the man and injured him, the Houston mayor said.
...
Houston police tried to stop a car that was missing a license plate, CBS News reported. When the car didn't stop, they pursued it into a garage. Police handcuffed and arrested the driver, injuring him, the report said. CBS News identified the official as Ben Ren Yu. The Houston consulate website lists a deputy consul-general, Yu Boren.

The officers said they were unaware they had pursued the diplomat into the Chinese Consulate's parking garage, Parker said.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 30 Apr 2010 22:59

Chinese accused of vast trade in organs

China's hidden policy of executing prisoners of the forbidden quasi-Buddhist group Falun Gong and harvesting their organs for worldwide sale has been expanded to include Tibetans, "house church" Christians and Muslim Uighurs, human rights activists said Monday.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 May 2010 01:21

India losing focus
The entry of China as an observer country along with Japan, Iran, Mauritius, South Korea, Australia, the US and European Union into SAARC clearly has far-reaching implications on India’s South Asian policy. Instead of India emerging as facilitator of socio-economic development in Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan, it is Chinese developmental assistance that’s having a larger impact, while New Delhi is busy repeating the old mantra of South Asia being its exclusive sphere of influence. http://www.indiatimes.com/photostory/5872101.cms

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 May 2010 02:20

^
Acharyaji,

Why worrying about PRC onlee? What business Japan, Iran, US and EU has in SAARC? If we keep extending the group because A has borders with X, Y, Z then SAARC will become second UN. A better strategy is to invite the rest of the world and get permanent security counsel seats to original SAARC nations.

This is a failure of Indian leadership for a long time. They didn't want to put TSP in its place, which made SAARC a joke all these years. Now they are busy solving IPL type fiasco 10 a day and have no time to help/influence other smaller countries.

Indian society needs a sincere introspection before it is too late.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 01 May 2010 04:47

Silk toxins 'partially blind Indian weavers'

Workers in Ramanagaram district have complained of eye injuries after handling cloth imported from China over the last three months.

Officials said a sample of the yarn has been sent for chemical analysis.

Karnataka is a leading silk-producing state, but over the years, more Chinese silk has entered the market.

An official said chemicals had been added to increase the weight of silk and to make the cloth look more attractive - but there is no report of where or when chemicals might have been added.

Four weavers were admitted to a hospital in Ramanagaram last week after they touched a bag of raw silk.

"Immediately, our eyes started to burn and our vision got blurred," said Ahmed, one of the victims.

There are more than 38,000 weavers in the silk-producing towns of Ramanagaram and Channapatna.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 01 May 2010 05:28

RamaY wrote:^
Acharyaji,

Why worrying about PRC onlee? What business Japan, Iran, US and EU has in SAARC? If we keep extending the group because A has borders with X, Y, Z then SAARC will become second UN. A better strategy is to invite the rest of the world and get permanent security counsel seats to original SAARC nations.

This is a failure of Indian leadership for a long time. They didn't want to put TSP in its place, which made SAARC a joke all these years. Now they are busy solving IPL type fiasco 10 a day and have no time to help/influence other smaller countries.

Indian society needs a sincere introspection before it is too late.

More the members in particular group, more arguments can be stirred up and the more impotent the group becomes when it comes to deciding upon something and acting. It seems to be the policy of GOI to make SAARC impotent..

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 01 May 2010 11:51

Stunned China Looks Inward After School Attacks

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/world ... china.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 01 May 2010 12:38

China diplomat beaten, injured by Houston police

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 879512.cms

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 May 2010 15:59

Ban on China telecom gear may become diplomatic issue

The Chinese Embassy has written to the Prime Minister seeking clarity on the Government's policy for procuring telecom equipment in the light of the security concerns raised against gear manufactured by Chinese firms such as ZTE and Huawei.

In the past two months, the Department of Telecom has rejected all applications submitted by the operators to buy equipment from Chinese vendors due to security concerns. DoT officials said that the decision to reject the applications was based on inputs received by the Ministry of Home Affairs.

What else can PRC expect after mounting a cyber attack on Indian sites ? I hope the GoI doesn't buckle.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 May 2010 07:42

Indonesians Seek Words to Attract China’s Favor

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world ... nindo.html

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 03 May 2010 00:04

Taiwan's Ma Denies Kowtowing to China(CNN interview)

naren · Post by **naren** » 03 May 2010 10:29

Chinese city's bid to revive glory of imperial past

Industrialisation has scarred the city of Datong: like many others in China, it is a jumble of factories, roads and office blocks.

But the polluted, industrial city in northern China - known for its coal mines and its manufacturing plants - was once an important metropolis.

For a brief period 1,500 years ago it even served as an imperial capital.

Local officials are now trying to recapture some of that glory by rebuilding Datong's 14th Century city wall.
...
But there is a deeper reason why Datong and others are revisiting history: in China there is a renewed interest in the past.
...
Datong's city government is also rebuilding temples, restoring old shop fronts and cleaning up the streets in a project that aims to be finished by 2012.
...
This kind of work does not come without inconvenience. In Datong hundreds of people are being forced to move to make way for the wall restoration.

Some do not want to go, but many say they are happy to relocate.
...
This renewed pride in the past is why Datong, and other places, are now keen to remember a time when China really was the greatest nation on earth {There, pee pee see said it. Go nuts Yindu jingoes }.

All that is good. What about religious freedom ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 May 2010 18:48

After the ban on Chinese telecom gear, Huawei top brass want to meet ministry officials

Top executives from Chinese technology major Huawei Telecommunications are flying into India later this week in a bid to meet high ranked Government functionaries, including the Home Minister, Mr P. Chidambaram; the Communications and IT Minister, Mr A. Raja; and the Minister of Commerce and Industry, Mr Anand Sharma.

This comes as the Department of Telecom has rejected 11 applications since February from operators wanting to buy equipment from Chinese vendors. Several applications from Unitech, Tata, Airtel, Loop, Vodafone, Idea Cellular and Aircel have been rejected over the past two months on security grounds.

The affected equipment vendors include ZTE, Huawei, Maipu Communications, Comverse and UTStarcom.

The DoT has given approvals to four applications, all of which were for buying equipment from the European vendor Nokia Siemens.

Though the Government is officially maintaining that there is no blanket ban on equipment from any specific country, operators are not being allowed to procure equipment from Chinese vendors.

Officials in the Commerce Ministry said they received queries last week from Chinese officials and companies about India's procurement policy.

“They (the companies and the Chinese officials) have a point in the sense that they have the right to know the reasons for rejecting their equipment. But even under WTO rules every country has a right to secure itself, and in this regard if the operating system or embedded software is not strong enough, it can lead to leakage of information, including sensitive or secret information,” an official said.

Sources said there is no official information from China on any retaliatory action in this regard.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 May 2010 05:59

Huawei part of Chinese spy network, says R&AW

NEW DELHI: Chinese telecom major Huawei may aggressively deny any link to the China’s People’s Liberation Army, but independent assessments of Indian intelligence agencies so far clearly point out that PLA remains a customer of the company and has become more involved with it.

Huawei’s Great Wall of code worries India

New Delhi: A company that powers the telecom networks of half of India’s 14-odd operators, including two state-owned companies, is routinely being described in government correspondence as a ‘virtual’ Chinese mole. And this, when Huawei Technologies, the Chinese telecom equipment maker in question, has been in business in India for around a decade. Is the company caught in a security bogey, competitive crossfire here or is there more to such startling noting on the security agencies’ files?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 May 2010 06:45

^^How is it that they were even able to get telecom contracts in the first place?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 07 May 2010 14:13

Obviously RAW is bang right. But i've noticed most educated people in India are strategically 'illiterate' to a large degree, which allows incompetents in the GOI to get off the hook too easy. A massive increase in the educated and strategically enlightened community is desperately required.

Unfortunately a massive overdose of extremely intelligent but strategically 'unenlightened' folks have made it into the corridors of power everywhere. Maybe it represents the majority in a bizarre way, but it's because the right facts have not been placed before the majority also. I am shocked at some who so naively think that Paki's think like us. That their Judicial system is like ours. Their FM got away with saying that and not a peep from any where in India.

CPC moles are all over Chinese companies. They have to be. Whats the Chinese Govt equity in Huawei? The moment they step into Mainland China, they have to spill secrets back there. If i was running PRC i would do the same logically. I can't even access BR from China or face book. Just wondering how the Chinese who post here do so? Specially without their Govt not knowing?

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 08 May 2010 02:43

Mother Nature helping Tibetan citizens against Chinese colonizers

Last evening Australian Broadcasting Corporation's news program PM had an interesting interview with Dr Robert Thurman, Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies at Columbia University. He says that the millions of Chinese resettled in Tibet face 'chronic mountain sickness' since they do not have the same body chemistry that Tibetans have.
Here is a portion of the interview. Dr.Thurman was interviewed by Mark Colvin of ABC.

...
ROBERT THURMAN: I do see progress {in Tibet}. I am frustrated but not really in a sense that, it's very sad what's going on and the last few years have been particularly sad. Things were getting better in the eighties with Hu Yaobang, you know, the one who died before Tiananmen Square. He was relaxing things in the eighties and then things got a little bit better.

But then he was busted by Deng Xiaoping, Deng was very hardline about Tibet is the key. And then things turned really bad in Deng's old age, after Russia let loose Kazakhstan and Soviet Union went down. He became very worried that this could happen in the future to China.

So he started spending a lot of money to colonise Tibet, to build the railroad. He put a sur-tax on the coastal provinces that made money to build up the west and he subsidised the settlers to go there, despite of the fact that China's own scientists say that people from lower altitudes cannot live at that altitude.

That's why they weren't there a thousand years ago, you know, why it wasn't China, in fact, because there was special body chemistry not to get sick. What they call CMS chronic mountain sickness, they get ill when they try to colonise up there.

MARK COLVIN: Is that actually happening?

ROBERT THURMAN: Yes it does. In three or four years the right ventricle of your heart starts to dilate and you have all kind of heart problems and Chinese scientists …

MARK COLVIN: But the Chinese have moved in tens of thousands of people …

ROBERT THURMAN: Yeah but only lately and they are under high subsidy, millions they have moved in and they're under high subsidy but the majority of their millions are in the eastern edge where it's sort of falling below ten thousand where it's a little more doable.

But even there it's long-term unhealthy and the women have a hard time not miscarrying because placenta is very hard to form when you don't have that Tibetan chemistry.
...

Tibet expert warns of dangers ahead for China

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 May 2010 09:59

China is making huge inroads into Mauritius. India has to quickly take the right steps to retain that country under the Indian sphere of influence. No complacency here.
Mauritius wants greater Indian role

China is building an industrial city here to assemble consumer and other goods for re-export to Africa and Europe. Indian leaders visit Mauritius frequently, and Prime Ministers Ramgoolam and Manmohan Singh are known for their warm rapport.

Asked how concerned he was that the growing Chinese economic presence in Mauritius is reportedly irritating India, Mr. Beebeejaun {Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Rashid Beebeejaun} said: “Our relationship with China is not at the expense of India. We believe in friendship and cooperation with all countries who demonstrate good will toward Mauritius.”

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 May 2010 10:48

Huawei's Indian Employees have no Access Beyond First Floor

Huawei's Bangalore employees have access to just ground and first floors of the Chinese firm's R&D facility in Bangalore, reports Economic Times.

Access to floors above is limited to only Chinese nationals, ET said quoting company sources. Even the Indian government has nop clue on the activities and equipment in the Chinese part of the building, the newspaper said.

naren · Post by **naren** » 08 May 2010 13:52

^^^ seems they have Hukou in their office complexes too.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 08 May 2010 23:22

“Alarmist” Home Ministry straining ties, says Jairam in China - The Hindu

Minister of State for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh on Saturday said “alarmist” and “paranoid” policies of the Home Ministry towards Chinese companies and projects in India were threatening to derail the post-Copenhagen warming of ties between the neighbours.

Mr. Ramesh, in Beijing to attend an international conference on climate change, also said he had faced some opposition from a “suspicious” security and defence establishment in India on taking forward climate co-operation with China, indicating that opinion was sharply divided in the Indian government on how to engage with China.

The December climate summit at Copenhagen, where India and China closely co-ordinated their negotiating positions, was seen by officials in the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) as helping to turn around bilateral ties following a tense year of political strains over the border dispute.

But, Mr. Ramesh warned, “overly defensive” policies of the Home Ministry towards Chinese companies, like telecommunications giant Huawei, recently under the scanner and facing an import ban for security reasons, could “dissipate” the “Copenhagen spirit.”

“There is a large security establishment which is uncomfortable even with the Copenhagen spirit,” he told Indian journalists. “They keep asking me why are you collaborating with China on climate change? After all, China is the world's largest emitter, with 23 per cent of the world's emissions, and we [account for] less than 5 per cent. They are asking, why should we collaborate with these guys?”

The Minister, however, suggested there was a “strategic” interest for India in taking forward climate cooperation with China. The “Copenhagen spirit,” he said, led to improved ties in other areas.

He pointed to greater co-operation from China in sharing information on dam projects on the Brahmaputra, which had triggered concerns in India. Last month, the two countries signed an implementation agreement on exchanging hydrological data. The muted response from the Chinese government to the reported telecom ban also hinted at a better political atmosphere, he noted.

“The Prime Minister is totally gung-ho on [the Copenhagen spirit],” Mr. Ramesh said. “There is no doubt on it ... The NSA [National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon] is fully backing it. The MEA is backing it. The people with the questions are the Home Ministry and the security establishment.”

I'm okay with policy differences within the government. What pisses me off and makes me go CT is his choice of location for this announcement.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 08 May 2010 23:31

I have quoted Jairam Ramesh before also ("They have already Won the Race"). He also does not think that Chinese can be blamed for Tiger Poaching in India (really, if the Chinese want to use Tiger parts for their small wangs and low virility - who else is to blame?).

Why does this man not move to China and renounce the burden of his Indian Citizenship?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 May 2010 23:47

China Getting Firmer with NoKorea?

http://blogs.forbes.com/davos/2010/05/0 ... m-jong-il/

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 May 2010 23:47

“The Prime Minister is totally gung-ho on [the Copenhagen spirit],” Mr. Ramesh said. “There is no doubt on it ... The NSA [National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon] is fully backing it. The MEA is backing it. The people with the questions are the Home Ministry and the security establishment.”

The MHA seems to be the only bulwark left against unnecessary concessions to the Chinese and Pakis ?
Other than the MHA, MMs seems to have filled his yes men in all other top posts and is trying to get his "policies" through,

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 09 May 2010 00:53

What is India getting in return for cooperating with China on climate change? That is a valid question that some people in India are asking.

India getting information on the dam they are building on the brahmaputra does not seem like a big thing. I do not see any change in China's hostile policies towards India. The only thing that has happened is that they have toned down the anti-India mood of the Chinese media. But what is the big deal in that. That can be changed any moment.

Since when has Jairam Ramesh become a strategic expert? Isn't he the environment minister?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 09 May 2010 01:24

^^ Exactly the points that came to me. Building a damn in Brahmaputra is alarming in the first place. However primarily the river originates in the Kailash-Mansarover region that India should be rightly claiming as their own. India and specially Hindu groups must assert their historical and religious bond with this place. India must talk peacefully with China on this matter. Make that disputed. Then on the same principle China opposes ADB loans for building power projects in Arunachal, India should oppose China building damns on major rivers originating in the Kailash/ Mansarover region. If China has a problem with that, then India has no option but to threaten to look at Tibets stature once again and make that disputable. It has to boil down to that. India has to raise the UN resolutions on Tibet asking for self determination for it's people. Building any damns should be at the minimum opposed at the Official level. But with strategically unenlightened intellectuals like Jairam all over the policy establishment..what can i say.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 09 May 2010 02:02

Mainland experts involved in the project confirmed the hydropower plan for the river yesterday and said four other, similar dams would be built in a deep valley between Sangri and Jiacha counties. The total power capacity of the dams, once completed, would be "several times" bigger than the massive Three Gorges Dam.

Eventually, the dams will generate power to meet the fast growing demand in Guangdong and Hong Kong. Guangdong, the country's primary manufacturing base, now relies heavily on Yunnan and Guangxi for power. But the two western provinces are undergoing rapid industrialisation, increasing their own use of electricity, and the country needs to look further west to build more generating capacity.

While reports of Beijing's plan to dam the Yarlung Zangbo have been circulating for years, this month's meeting was the first time the country had admitted the plan to India.

The damming of the Yarlung Zangbo, the highest major river in the world, will also give Beijing direct control of the water supply to more than 90,000 square kilometres of land over which China claims sovereignty but which is under the control of India.

And our HM says China is building trust by talking about a project thats going to be several times the size of the 3 Gorges one? A false sense of secularism has cut our traditional links with Tibet to absolute complacency. Thats the leadership in power who care two hoots for our strategic, cultural and religious bonds with Tibet and hand them over to a Han totalitarian leadership, while they hide behind a cliche like mantra..no interference in others internal affairs' or panchsheel. The Chinese leadership understand this too well. They know and understand our leadership is strategically stupid, irrespective whether from Harvard, Oxford or IIM.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 09 May 2010 02:19

Essentially as MKB had said India is having to revamp its foreign policy in light of changes that have come about with the Obama administration.

India was basing it foreign policy assuming a strategic tie up with the US and was expecting to piggy back on the US in Afghanistan and dealings with China. For example, Sino US competition would lead to US encouraging its allies like SK, SE Asia, Japan, Australia to forge closer ties with India. While India can forge closer ties with these countries without US encouragement, US encouragement would act as a multiplier. Ashleu Tellis indicated last year that during the Bush years, India and US had a tacit agreement that US on China.

Now with the coming of Obama administration and the economic crisis and G2 and the endgame in AfPak, the whole premise of India's foreign policy in the last few years has collapsed. US is still desirous of good relationship of India. The recent approval of four enrichment sites is proof of Obama's commitment. But what is missing is congruent views on China and India's place in Asia and of course Af-Pak. So while India will continue to enjoy good relations with the US, it may not accrue the strategic dividends from the US in say Afghanistan or dealings with China.

Given these changes, India's foreign policy has tried to adjust by adopting a policy of "engaged with all but allied to none". Engagement with China is a part of that strategy. Through this India signals to the US that it cannot take India's support on the China for granted. Overall, the idea was to engage the strategic space given the setback because of changes in US positions. Also, India may not feel comfortable challenging China if it is not sure that US will be on its side. We know that Obama administration has been taking a neutral stand on the Arunachal Pradesh issue.

Now, the question is what is India achieving wrt to China. Some people would say it is a long term thing. Maybe it is. Also, US can exploit India China conflict to its advantage. So India has to make sure it is driven to conflict with China because of machinations of the west.

In any case, my feeling is that India does not have any better options and this is the best one can do at the moment. With US courting China, India has to keep its options open by engaging with China. But India has to be firm on defence issues as well as Huwaei kind of espionage.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 May 2010 02:28

harbans wrote: Exactly the points that came to me. Building a damn in Brahmaputra is alarming in the first place. However primarily the river originates in the Kailash-Mansarover region that India should be rightly claiming as their own. India and specially Hindu groups must assert their historical and religious bond with this place. (I am no commie, but at best we can ask for a free tibet, it was never a part of India). India must talk peacefully with China on this matter. Make that disputed. Then on the same principle China opposes ADB loans for building power projects in Arunachal, India should oppose China building damns on major rivers originating in the Kailash/ Mansarover region. If China has a problem with that, then India has no option but to threaten to look at Tibets stature once again and make that disputable. It has to boil down to that. (India still continues with hydroelectric projects and building dams in arunachal even after china disputes the area. Arunachal is under our control and they cant do 2 hoots about what we do there, blocking ADB funds is all they can do. If we dont get funds from ADB, we will fund it ourselves. Now the same holds good for China, they will build what they want in tibet even if we declare tibet to disputed, they dont care. Next, no one is stopping India from pushing more mainland Indians into North East, we squat and we can't expect them to do the same) India has to raise the UN resolutions on Tibet asking for self determination for it's people. Building any damns should be at the minimum opposed at the Official level. But with strategically unenlightened intellectuals like Jairam all over the policy establishment..what can i say. (Here I agree, we should do that, just to hedge)

And our HM says China is building trust by talking about a project thats going to be several times the size of the 3 Gorges one? A false sense of secularism has cut our traditional links with Tibet to absolute complacency. Thats the leadership in power who care two hoots for our strategic, cultural and religious bonds with Tibet and hand them over to a Han totalitarian leadership, while they hide behind a cliche like mantra..no interference in others internal affairs' or panchsheel. The Chinese leadership understand this too well. They know and understand our leadership is strategically stupid, irrespective whether from Harvard, Oxford or IIM.

It was the hindu BJP led by a hindu PM who agreed to tibet being a part of China. What a sham. So i dont expect anything from these current congress nincompoops, if BJP itself did only that much.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 09 May 2010 05:53

Hemmed in by a lack of clarity

In a long-term view, the rise of China is to be welcomed, but today China remains what the journalist Martin Wolf calls a "premature superpower."

China's current reputation for power benefits from projections about the future. In one poll, 44% of respondents mistakenly thought that China already had the world's largest economy, compared to 27% who accurately picked the United States (which is three times larger). Martin Jacques even entitled his recent book "When China Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order."

Some people draw analogies to the rise of Germany a century ago, and predict a coming conflict with the U.S. like that between Germany and Britain. Fortunately, these fears are exaggerated.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 09 May 2010 06:04

Murali ji, see i never raised the issue with India claiming Tibet or should. But there is a reality which many of us are not looking at. A massive difference in our thinking that would pervade if Tibet was free, unshackled from Han occupation. In the past there were no problems with Hindu pilgrimages to Ladhak/ Leh and how official Governors or Empires drew the boundaries between Tibet and India did'nt water anyway much between the peoples of both countries. It would probably have been the same way if Tibetans had their own nation. So claiming Kailash and Mansarover which is essentially the holiest spot for tens of millions of Shaivites for example is not wrong if China occupies Tibet and may best be irrelevent if Tibet was free. However if Tibet indeed is Buddhist, KM is indeed purely Hindu for millenia. Not raising that claim with the Chinese on the very grounds mentioned above and not necessarily maps of the region drawn by Emperors or officials in remote Capitals is quite relevant.

I disagree with the contention that one can do as one wants like you said in AP. It's not without reason that 'disputed' territories are not funded by groups like ADB etc. By taking the stance you are taking, justifies the stance China takes while damning Brahmaputra. And doing so we make a vital mistake..justifying power over right. Justifying China's brutal occupation of Tibet with saying if they have the power and will damn, let them do it. We cannot do anything about it...and what shocked me to the core of what you wrote:

Next, no one is stopping India from pushing more mainland Indians into North East, we squat and we can't expect them to do the same

Clearly shows you think NE is not mainland India! Clearly indicates a mindset where you equate China's occupation of Tibet with 'Mainland' India's of NE

Thats the prevalent mindset and callousness of approach to the NE and Tibet that must be dealt with by India internally before we begin to sort the Chinese in Tibet.

praksam · Post by **praksam** » 09 May 2010 07:21

Children on leashes in brick factory

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNe ... 14781.html

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 May 2010 07:22

muraliravi wrote:

It was the hindu BJP led by a hindu PM who agreed to tibet being a part of China. What a sham. So i dont expect anything from these current congress nincompoops, if BJP itself did only that much.

Have you read these Tibet papers
http://www.claudearpi.net/index.php?nav ... d=5&lang=1

Nothing has changed after that.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 May 2010 08:01

Acharya wrote:
muraliravi wrote:

It was the hindu BJP led by a hindu PM who agreed to tibet being a part of China. What a sham. So i dont expect anything from these current congress nincompoops, if BJP itself did only that much.
Have you read these Tibet papers
http://www.claudearpi.net/index.php?nav ... d=5&lang=1

Nothing has changed after that.

Thanks for correcting me, I will read the papers now

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 09 May 2010 08:07

harbans wrote:
I disagree with the contention that one can do as one wants like you said in AP. It's not without reason that 'disputed' territories are not funded by groups like ADB etc. By taking the stance you are taking, justifies the stance China takes while damning Brahmaputra. And doing so we make a vital mistake..justifying power over right. Justifying China's brutal occupation of Tibet with saying if they have the power and will damn, let them do it. We cannot do anything about it...and what shocked me to the core of what you wrote:

Next, no one is stopping India from pushing more mainland Indians into North East, we squat and we can't expect them to do the same

Clearly shows you think NE is not mainland India! Clearly indicates a mindset where you equate China's occupation of Tibet with 'Mainland' India's of NE

Thats the prevalent mindset and callousness of approach to the NE and Tibet that must be dealt with by India internally before we begin to sort the Chinese in Tibet.

Harbans ji,

Let me clarify myself, I did not intend to say that the NE is different from mainland. I just meant that in a geographical context. Now let me ask this, Kashmir belongs to India, no doubt, but will changing the demographics there with different people (i dont want to get into a debate on this issue) change the status there, of course it will, we all know that and we all know how it will shut up our barking neighbor.

The same situation might not apply to the NE. All i meant for the NE was just populating it. China keeps on talking about transferring non-populated tracts of the NE. Now when i mean mainland indians, i mean populated areas. NE is sparsely populated and it seems like that density will not shut the chinese are their friends at ADB. Now imagine Arunachal with a population of lets say 15 million and some economic activity, i bet the chinese and india's other enemies would shut up

Sorry if i did not convey my points clearly in the earlier post

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 May 2010 09:01

More of the same from Jairam Ramesh

India's relations with China have “two dimensions”, Union Minister of State for Environment Jairam Ramesh told journalists here.

“There is a Copenhagen spirit dimension [at the December climate summit the two countries closely co-ordinated their negotiating positions] and there is a ‘Huawei headache' dimension.”

The Home Ministry has warned that possible malware in imported telecom equipment, particularly from China, could severely threaten national security. The restrictions were “needless,” Mr. Ramesh argued. “At some stage, if we become paranoid about Chinese investments in India, as we seem to be, then we are not going to be able to derive the full benefits of the Copenhagen spirit…..We are imagining demons where there are none.”

Jairam Ramesh is another Shashi Tharoor. He does not understand the 'collective responsibility of the cabinet'. He could not say all these things in the open and that too at Beijing. It looks likely that he is totally divorced from reality. He simply needs to go and very quickly too before he does more damage.