Indian Military Aviation

[SriSri]

Air Force Mi-17 Helicopter Crashes in Tawang, Arunachal Pradesh

11 feared dead, (2 pilots & 10 Jawans were on board)

Am not sure. Waiting for a PTI feed input on this. Can't find much on TV channels either. :-/

[Vasu]

Online news media are reporting 11 lives - 2 pilots, 9 trainee pilots.

There was an explosion on board soon after takeoff and then the chopper crashed.

Sad day indeed.

[SriSri]

One army officer on board (via strategicpost / sourabhjoshi on Twitter) .. everyone's thinking it, I'm asking it .. Sabotage?

[Willy]

Air Force Mi-17 Helicopter Crashes in Tawang, Arunachal Pradesh

There will be another report on a Paki and Chink website that it was shot down by a Chinese missile

[Willy]

We seriously need some of these

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20091222/157324925.html

With so many JV's on why not one on the above???????

[shiv]

One army officer on board (via strategicpost / sourabhjoshi on Twitter) .. everyone's thinking it, I'm asking it .. Sabotage?

Why not just wait for reports to come in rather than speculate and add misery to pain?

Please see this post
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 90#p981090

[SriSri]

@shiv .. agreed, sorry .. :-(

[shukla]

12 killed as MI-17 helicopter crashes after explosion
Times of India

All 12 armed forces personnel onboard an IAF MI-17 helicopter were today killed when it crashed after an explosion minutes after take-off from Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh. The 12 people, including 11 IAF officials - two of them pilots - and one Army officer, on board were killed when the helicopter crashed at Bomdir area bordering China, Defence PRO Col Rajesh Kalia in Itanagar said.

All the bodies have been recovered by the Army and police. The bodies remain to be identified. The explosion onboard occurred minutes after the helicopter took-off from the Tawang helipad at around 12 noon. The helicopter was en route to Guwahati. A commission of inquiry has been ordered. IAF sources said the weather was clear it was unlikely that the chopper could have encountered any obstruction. Arunachal Pradesh chief minister Dorjee Khandu has condoled the deaths.

@Shiv.. This one claims weather was clear.. Will only know after the inquiry I guess..

[shukla]

IAF MI-17 Crashes in Tawang Sector
MOD Press release

In a tragic air crash, an IAF Mi-17 helicopter with 12 service personnel onboard, crashed near Bomdir in Tawang today at around 1205 hrs, killing all personnel on board. The helicopter was airborne from Tawang for Guwahati. The deceased include three crew members, eight IAF personnel below officer rank and an Army Lieutenant Colonel.

Defence Minister Shri AK Antony has expressed profound grief at the loss of lives of defence personnel in the crash. The IAF has also constituted a Court of Inquiry to look into the cause of the accident.

[Gilles]

The IL-476 aka marketing name IL-76MF flew for the first time yesterday.

Wiki is wrong on this.

Il-476 and IL-76MF are two different aircraft, sort of.

The IL-76MF is a stretched IL-76MD built at the TAPO factory in Tashkent. The prototype that had been flying since 1995 had originally been built as an IL-76MD and had been modified as the IL-76MF prototype. Then the TAPO factory built a number of stretched airframes, none of which were ever completed or sold. In 2005, The Royal Jordanian Air Force ordered 2 IL-76MF. The Il-76MF that flew last month in Tashkent is one of those two ordered by the RJAF. I suspect that plane to be plagued with problems.

The IL-476 is going to be the new IL-76s that will be built at the Aviastar plant in Russia. The first one is still under construction and none has flown yet.

Here are pictures of it

http://russianplanes.net/images/to31000/030591.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to31000/030590.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to27000/026045.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to20000/019388.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to15000/014554.jpg

[Austin]

^^^ Yes I realised that later

[Austin]

Not sure if this was posted before

The Incredible Shrinking Air Force

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is shrinking steadily. Just last week, a stoic Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik said at the Kalaikunda Air Force Base in West Bengal that the IAF had 32 combat squadrons. This figure is down from its sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadrons, each with 20 aircraft, a decade ago. But nobody will bet on this figure.

The IAF brass privately concede they are down to just 28 squadrons. This leaves the IAF with just around 500 combat aircraft for bombing ground targets or intercepting enemy fighters. In the event of war with Pakistan, it can throw just 13 fighter squadrons or 260 aircraft into battle against the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF) 22 combat squadrons, or 440 aircraft, because it must simultaneously deploy 15 fighter squadrons against China.

This is the smallest force since the IAF took 25 squadrons into battle against the PAF in 1965. Naik admits that over 50 per cent of the existing fleet is obsolete, which means they will be retired in a decade. What's worse, the world's fourth largest air force will take another decade to rise up to its sanctioned strength. "At current induction rates, it will be at least 2022 before we build back to 39.5 combat squadrons," admits former air chief Air Chief Marshal (Retd) Fali Major.

The IAF is shrinking at a time when the force's future battle space has expanded. It has been formally tasked with a full scale two-front war with China and Pakistan as enunciated by Defence Minister A.K. Antony in his classified Raksha Mantri's directives of 2008. IAF internal studies have projected a requirement of 44 squadrons to fight Pakistan and hold China, and at least 55 squadrons for a simultaneous war with both. Both numbers fall in the realm of fiction.

India and Pakistan revalidated their understanding on the primacy of airpower after the Kargil War. Surprisingly, it was the losing side that was quicker on the draw. Since the 9/11 attacks which restored its status as a major ally and opened up the US arms store, more than half of Pakistan's purchases have been combat aircraft. A feat for the PAF, considering it is the powerful Pakistan Army that has the final say on all purchases. These have included airborne refuellers from Ukraine, airborne early warning aircraft from Sweden, Chinese J-10s and JF-17s, new F-16s and upgrades to the older F-16s. A decade after Kargil, these capabilities have helped the paf transform itself from a second-generation to a fourth-generation air force.

Analysts say the PAF's 22 combat squadrons put the PAF versus IAF ratio at 1.27:1 or 28:22 squadrons. In the next 10-15 years this ratio will change. Pakistan is accelerating acquisitions to rapidly close the gap with the IAF. With China rapidly modernising its air force too, the IAF will be looking at over 1,000 fourth-generation aircraft over the Himalayas. "India is vulnerable during this waiting period of seven to 10 years," says Shalini Chawla of the Centre for Air Power Studies.

The addition of force multipliers like IL-78 tankers by the PAF has implications. It means, for instance, that the PAF will be able to refuel its aircraft over the Arabian Sea and target vulnerable areas like Bangalore and Hyderabad in southern India. The IAF's southern-most airbase is Pune and plans to reopen fighter bases in the south will mean further thinning out its already meagre fighter fleet.

So how did the IAF lose its aircraft? A major reason is that the IAF is haemorrhaging MiGs. Beginning with its old faithful, the MiG-21 which numbered 20 combat squadrons in the mid 1980s, the IAF is now down to 11 MiG-21 squadrons. All the MiG-21s will fly out in a decade. The delay in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, which was meant to replace the MiGs, has only widened the gap. Procedural delays have meant that the first aircraft from the IAF's stopgap purchase for the LCA delay-126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for $12 billion-will fly only after five years. This is nearly 15 years after the iaf first made the case for acquisition. New additions are a trickle-10 licence-produced Su-30 MKI aircraft each year (India contracted to buy and build 270 Su-30 MKIs from Russia). Rough estimates say the IAF gets only one new aircraft to replace two retiring ones. "The IAF desperately needs 800 modern fighters," says aviation analyst Pushpinder Singh Chopra making the case for at least 500 MMRCAs.

There is of course the argument that modern aircraft make up in quality what vintage aircraft did in quantity: one Sukhoi squadron can wreak as much havoc as a 1,000-plane raid of World War II but this comes at the cost of the flexibility that numbers give. With its far flung commitments, the iaf says it needs numbers. "One aircraft cannot be in six places simultaneously," says Air Chief Marshal (Retd) S. Krishnaswamy. Interim solutions like upgrades of ageing warhorses like MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s are being tried out. Till then, the nation must keep its fingers crossed.

[Austin]

I tend to agree with Pushpinder Singh 500 MMRCA need , we need good quality but cost effective fighter for MMRCA and not expensive top end model .

We need to divide MMRCA for both single and twin engine fighter which are capable yet cost effective , instead of putting the money on top end model like Typhoon or F-18 and buy it in 128 numbers , we need to invest in a fighter that can make up the backbone in number yet its cheaper to procure and operate.

I would say a mix between Gripen/Mig-35 single and double engine that could make up for that 500 number in the next 15 years would be a good buy.

[Pratyush]

The LCA is more advanced then any thing currently in the IAF inventory with the possible exception of the MKi yet the IAF is not ready to comit to the purchase of large numbers of the Aircraft.

The published numbers suggest not more then 200 LCA airframes for the IAF.

[Juggi G]

DRDO Establishing Four New Facilities

A facility called O-Range (open range) will be set up in Dundigal outside Hyderabad. It will measure the radio frequency and radar cross-section of small, medium and large missiles, as well as Aircraft and electronic warfare systems. All the equipment is in place for this facility, which will become operational in 2011.

A hypersonic wind tunnel will be established at Hyderabad’s Missile Complex. The facility will be provided with Rs 300-400 crore to test various parameters of the Hypersonic Technology Development Vehicle (HSTDV), including engine performance.

“It is pivotal to test the [HSTDV] in the range of up to Mach 12. This will be a unique installation in India,” Saraswat says.

The remaining two installations in Hyderabad will be a material characterization facility to test the strength and features of high-temperature materials, and a production facility that will focus on systems and subsystems.

Avinash Chander, director of DRDO’s Advanced Systems Laboratory, says DRDO is committed to helping India’s multi-pronged missile programs meet ever-increasing challenges and demands.

[srai]

Not sure if this was posted before

The Incredible Shrinking Air Force

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is shrinking steadily. Just last week, a stoic Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik said at the Kalaikunda Air Force Base in West Bengal that the IAF had 32 combat squadrons. This figure is down from its sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadrons, each with 20 aircraft, a decade ago. But nobody will bet on this figure.

The IAF brass privately concede they are down to just 28 squadrons. ...

..."At current induction rates, it will be at least 2022 before we build back to 39.5 combat squadrons," admits former air chief Air Chief Marshal (Retd) Fali Major.

...All the MiG-21s will fly out in a decade. The delay in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, which was meant to replace the MiGs, has only widened the gap. Procedural delays have meant that the first aircraft from the IAF's stopgap purchase for the LCA delay-126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for $12 billion-will fly only after five years. This is nearly 15 years after the iaf first made the case for acquisition. New additions are a trickle-10 licence-produced Su-30 MKI aircraft each year (India contracted to buy and build 270 Su-30 MKIs from Russia). Rough estimates say the IAF gets only one new aircraft to replace two retiring ones.
...

Going by IAF - Aircraft Fleet Strength baseline, it would seem the MiG-21M/MF and MiG-27ML are pretty much retired.

36.5 Squadrons are listed out of which
* MiG-21 M/MF -> 5 squadrons
* MiG-27 ML -> 3.5 squadrons

If the 5 squadrons of MiG-21M/MF are taken out, then we get 31.5 squadrons (as stated by ACM) and if we also take out the 3.5 squadrons of MiG-27ML, then we get 28 squadrons (as conceded privately).

Between 2010 and 2018, 15 MiG-21 squadrons (5 MiG-21M/MF, 2 MiG-21Bis and 6 MiG-21Bison) and 5.5 MiG-27 squadrons (3.5 MiG-27ML and 2 MiG-27UPG) will be retired.

As far as the raising of new MKI squadrons, it would seem HAL still has around 80 MKIs (out of 140) left to build by 2015/17. Together with Russia's Irkutsk plant manufacturing 82 MKIs (40+42) by 2016/17, they will each be building on an average about 1 new MKI every 28 to 32 days (or between 11 to 13 aircrafts every year). This means IAF is raising a new full-strength MKI squadron (each with 16 to 18 aircrafts) every 8 to 9 months.

With regards to the MMRCA, we could see similar order pattern as with the MKI. Given that the first 18 MMRCA will arrive around 2014/15 timeframe and HAL producing the rest (108 aircrafts) at an average of 11 to 13 aircrafts a year, we are looking at around eight years license production run (plus tag in a couple of years of infrastructure setup). So that's until 2025. It is very likely IAF will order 60 options directly with the manufacturer on top of the initial 18 aircrafts (similar to MKI's order with Irkutsk) while HAL continues with its 108 aircrafts production.

2 LCA Mk.1 squadrons will be inducted by 2015 and another 5 LCA Mk.2 squadrons will be inducted between 2015/17 and 2022/25.


Let's do some numbers for 2018:
36.5 squadrons as of 2010

• +9 MKI squadrons (80 HAL + 82 Irkutsk)
• +2 MMRCA squadrons (18 original equipment manufacturer (OEM) + 18 HAL)
• +3 LCA squadrons (40 LCA Mk.1 and 20 LCA Mk.2)
• -20.5 Retired squadrons (15 MiG-21s and 5.5 MiG-27s)

-------------------------------------------------------------
30 squadrons in 2018

From 2018 onwards, all new squadrons raised will add on to the 30 squadron numbers as the Mirage-2000UPG, MiG-29UPG and Jaguar UPG will not be retired until 2025 at the earliest.

Let's do some numbers for 2022:
30 squadrons in 2018

• +5 MMRCA squadrons (60 HAL (out of 90 remaining) + 40 OEM (out of 60 options exercised))
• +3 LCA squadrons (60 LCA Mk.2 (out of 80 remaining))
• +1 PAK-FA squadron

---------------------------------------------------------------
39 squadrons in 2022

[Aditya G]

MiG-27ML retirement seems to be a suprise, since they were produced by HAL till mid 1990s iirc

[srai]

MiG-27ML retirement seems to be a suprise, since they were produced by HAL till mid 1990s iirc

Probably the 40 (2 squadrons out of 5.5) that were upgraded were the last ones produced and will serve until 2018/20. Old MiG aircrafts have very low airframe lives. I would guess that the MiG-27 airframe life to be around that of the MiG-21 which is around 2,400 hours (or around 16-20 years at 150 flight hrs/year).

[shukla]

IAF to provide aerial protection to major cities
Times of India

Aiming to prevent any 9/11 type attack in the country, the Indian Air Force is planning deploying detachments of fighter aircraft close to major cities to thwart any such attempts of terrorists by using the aerial route. Under its plan, a small detachment of three to four dedicated aircraft would be deployed close to major cities including Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore and Pune to provide cover against any threats from hijacked aircraft, low speed and high speed aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), micro-light aircraft, paragliders, balloons and remote-controlled aero- models.

"At present also, the IAF provides aerial protection to these cities but under the new plan, it will have dedicated aircraft round-the-clock for carrying out these responsibilities," senior Defence Ministry officials said. The protection provided to these cities would be same as that provided to the national capital during the Commonwealth Games and the Republic Day parade, they added.

The plan to provide aerial cover to these cities was formulated by the IAF following the 26/11 attacks on Mumbai two years back after intelligence agencies suggested that non-state actors might launch an aerial attack. Officials said that to provide a robust aerial cover to these cities, the IAF will also go ahead with strengthening of its ground-based infrastructure and enhance capabilities for an early detection of incoming enemy aircraft.

[Austin]

Russian upgraded Saras to perform first flight in 2011

The Saras aircraft being upgraded by India in accordance with proposals by Russian specialists will perform its first flight in 2011, a source from the Russian defense industry told Interfax-AVN on Saturday.

“The first Saras prototype partly completed on proposals by designers and specialists from the Myasischev Experimental Machine-Building Plant is due to take off next year, the source said.

Two Saras aircraft were built in India, one of them crashed, he said.

“Currently, India is building the third Saras prototype, fully completed on Russian proposals, and this aircraft will become a pre-series sample. Most likely the third Saras will be built in late 2011 or in 2012,” the source said.

The third airplane will take part in flight and certification tests, he said.

“India might build one or two more aircraft for certification: normally several aircraft are made for certification,” he said.

The Saras was created on the basis of the M-102 “Duet” aircraft designed by the Myasischev Experimental Machine-building Plant, “but while developing their own aircraft version Indian specialists encountered a number of problems,” he recalled.

“India pays very much attention to the Saras program completion. Many tens of millions of dollars have been invested in the program, with a total of 12 modifications of the basic Saras due to be built,” the source said.

Saras is fitted with two PT6A-66 engines each with a capacity of 850-horsepower. The maximum takeoff weight is 6,100 kilograms.

Media reports said that the Indian Air Force plans to buy up to 45 aircraft, while AF officials stated that they will acquire at least 15 such aircraft. Saras is due to replace analogous outdated airplanes like the An-2, the de Havilland Twin Otter and others.

[Austin]

Sukhoi expects several more signed export orders for SSJ’s before end of 2010

The Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCA) is in pre-contract negotiations with several Southeast Asian airline companies, SCA Senior Vice President Igor Syrtsov told Interfax-AVN. “Southern and Southeast Asian countries are most actively interested in Sukhoi Superjet 100. According to some estimates, 150-250 aircraft can be supplied here,”

There are plans to open regional service centers for Sukhoi civil aircraft in India and Singapore, the company said at the aircraft presentation in Jakarta.[/quote]

Some of our private airliners could be negotiating for the purchase of SSJ ,this is in line with the purchase of An-148 by some private airlines , its interesting Sukhoi will be opening regional service center in India.

I hope they get SSJ-100 at AeroIndia 2011

[Austin]

Found some news on regional service center

Air Works to service Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft

Under the terms of the agreement, Air Works will perform the maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services for the Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft series at its MRO facility in Hosur, near Bangalore, the company said in a statement.

"Our experience in aircraft maintenance will make our partnership with SuperJet long-lasting," Air Works CEO Fredrik Groth said.

Wonder why don't we have Indian Civil and Transport Aviation Thread , its so boring discuss military aircraft all the time

[Aditya G]

^^ there is one such thread in the technology and economics forum since ages

[Aditya G]

IAF to provide aerial protection to major cities
Times of India

We need low speed handling aircraft like Hawk and LCH to do this. Fast jets such as Su-30 should be available on specific days.

Such missions should be done by secondary air force - i.e. Auxilliary Air Force (is anyone in the establishment listening?).

[Pratyush]

+1 to the idea of AAC.

[Rahul M]

Wonder why don't we have Indian Civil and Transport Aviation Thread , its so boring discuss military aircraft all the time

you should check out the other forums sometimes.

[nachiket]

IAF to provide aerial protection to major cities
Times of India

We need low speed handling aircraft like Hawk and LCH to do this. Fast jets such as Su-30 should be available on specific days.

LCH is a helicopter. Hawk is a trainer that has no A-to-A combat capability. Neither of the two has a radar.

[shiv]

LCH is a helicopter. Hawk is a trainer that has no A-to-A combat capability. Neither of the two has a radar.

Nachiket the British have done an air-to air version of Hawk. The only difference is radar/ avionics. The Hawk trainer I am sure would give a lot of small aircraft a run for their money in gun based air to air combat. How do you fly slow and engage UAVs or microlights or two seater aircraft rigged up to be crashed into targets? The Hawk, and even a helo would be much better for this.

[Rahul M]

nachiket, look again at the list of possible threats and you will see that both hawk and LCH make sense. all you need is a decent gun. an on board radar isn't necessary. you might want to look at how SLAF prepared to tackle the threat from LTTE light aircraft.
".........against any threats from hijacked aircraft, low speed and high speed aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), micro-light aircraft, paragliders, balloons and remote-controlled aero- models."

AG usually knows what he is talking about.

[Aditya G]

Hi nachiket,

You are right on the radar part. However, I assume availability of 'dense' radar coverage in Indian metros that can provide more-than-adequate ground control to an IAF interceptor. AJTs and helicopters are better because:

1. Lower operating cost per hour

2. Lower noise pollution - yeah I thought nobody in India cares. But recently Delhi airport has objected to IAF ops from Palam for same reason.

3. Ability to loiter over area for extended period due to lower speed or hover

4. Higher awareness due to 2 x 2 eyeball mark-1

I propose that this be done by AAF since IAF is not humble enough to raise a combat sqn equipped with Hawks . I guess it should be easier for reservist force to raise a squadron based on AJTs instead of say, MiG-21. I cant find a picture right now, but IAF has procured 30 mm gun pods for the Hawks. Similar cannon was found in Gnat and Hunters.

The cannon is able to fire ball ammunition or high-explosive-tipped rounds and is used by the Hawk for air-to-air and air-to-ground training. The cannon has proved to be a very reliable weapon for many years in both its operational and training roles.

Proposal to station helicopters for air defence is not new to us. Below is some history from 104 HS (Firebirds):

Dec 01-Aug 02. The Sqn went on to be an active participant on the Western sector as a part of the Strike corps of the Indian Army during Op `Parakram' from Dec 01 to Aug 02. It flew mare than 200 missions consisting of Anti-Armour, CSFO, SEAD, UAV interception and Escorts to SHBO. The Sqn manned two ORPs during the first phase of Op `Parakram' for the interception of enemy UAVs.

Rahul da - thanks for backup

[Rahul M]

and the LCH has UAV interception as a mission statement.

[D Roy]

absolutely. The air to air role is pretty talked about for this bird.

the importance stems from the fact that the Pukes are looking at Chicom produced drones to counter Cold start type battle formations.

[srai]

Hi nachiket,

You are right on the radar part. However, I assume availability of 'dense' radar coverage in Indian metros that can provide more-than-adequate ground control to an IAF interceptor. AJTs and helicopters are better because:

1. Lower operating cost per hour

2. Lower noise pollution - yeah I thought nobody in India cares. But recently Delhi airport has objected to IAF ops from Palam for same reason.

3. Ability to loiter over area for extended period due to lower speed or hover

4. Higher awareness due to 2 x 2 eyeball mark-1

I propose that this be done by AAF since IAF is not humble enough to raise a combat sqn equipped with Hawks . I guess it should be easier for reservist force to raise a squadron based on AJTs instead of say, MiG-21. I cant find a picture right now, but IAF has procured 30 mm gun pods for the Hawks. Similar cannon was found in Gnat and Hunters.

The cannon is able to fire ball ammunition or high-explosive-tipped rounds and is used by the Hawk for air-to-air and air-to-ground training. The cannon has proved to be a very reliable weapon for many years in both its operational and training roles.

Proposal to station helicopters for air defence is not new to us. Below is some history from 104 HS (Firebirds):

Dec 01-Aug 02. The Sqn went on to be an active participant on the Western sector as a part of the Strike corps of the Indian Army during Op `Parakram' from Dec 01 to Aug 02. It flew mare than 200 missions consisting of Anti-Armour, CSFO, SEAD, UAV interception and Escorts to SHBO. The Sqn manned two ORPs during the first phase of Op `Parakram' for the interception of enemy UAVs.

Rahul da - thanks for backup

I would think HAL's IJT-36 is also an ideal candidate when mated with Top Owl/DASH helmet and R-73/Python-5 SR-AAMs "to provide cover against any threats from hijacked aircraft, low speed and high speed aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), micro-light aircraft, paragliders, balloons and remote-controlled aero- models". Have 4 deployed in every major city's airport.

But upon reading the article, it becomes more clear that this is really just about current IAF fighter squadrons in existing bases "on-ready and with dedicated assets" to provide cover in case of emergencies to the nearest major city of India (i.e. Delhi, Mumbai/Pune, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore ... plus others). So nothing different than what is mandated of the IAF already ... other than IAF having to juggle more of its assets to the Southern Command (as the other Commands have sufficient fighter deployments) to cover Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore.

[nachiket]

Aditya, Rahul, Shiv et al, thank you for the explanations. I take my words back regarding the LCH and its use in engaging small slow moving aerial targets. Not convinced about the effectiveness of the hawk though. I wasn't aware of RAF hawks being A-to-A combat capable. In any case, ours aren't AFAIK. I'd much rather have a flight of Mig-21 Bisons flying CAP over the city in case of a threat, doing an radar search for low-flying targets that ground based radars can't detect and engaging them with R-77s and if they break through, R-60s and 73s. Much better to try and completely blow up targets in the air itself with multiple missiles (including, god forbid, hijacked airliners) rather than having them come crashing down after being peppered with bullets from a Hawk's cannon). The helos can be used against UAVs, microlights and the like. Of course, as of now, we have only 66 Hawks and no LCHs. So the good old Mig-21s will have to do.

[Pratyush]

All the Images available of the LCH show it with 4 light AAMs. on wing tips. That shows how seriously the Air to air role is considered for the bird.

[shukla]

Commander’s Conference Begins at Western Air Command Wac Commanders Focus on Enhancing the Operational Capability of Western Air Command
MOD Press release

With the underlying theme – ‘Enhancing Operational Capability of Western Air Command’ the annual Commanders Conference of Western Air Command (WAC) commenced at Head Quarters Western Air Command, Subroto Park today. The two day conference began with the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal PV Naik addressing the commanders of all formations of the Western Air Command as well as the Principal Staff Officers of the Command.

With the Command that has translated its vision into its Mission Statement –‘People First, Mission Always’, the conference saw Air Marshal NAK Browne, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Western Air Command exhorting all the commanders to give their highest attention to the people, who are always the greatest asset of any force.

Addressing the commanders he said, “IAF is undergoing major modernization process and WAC occupies a unique position in this transformation drive. The need of the hour is speedy operationalisation of newly inducted equipment with a commitment to preserve and maintain what we already have to the highest possible standards”. He further complimented the commanders for the excellent operational standards achieved during the recent Exercise Gauntlet III and exhorted them to keep operations as the main focus area.

The two day conference would have the commanders carry out a data based review as well as focus on key issues such as – Infrastructure development especially in the Northern Region including Leh, Induction of new equipment, Aviation and Maintenance Safety and Welfare of Air Warriors. Concept of Operations of Western Air Command including Operations in support of three affiliated Army Commands would also be reviewed.

Western Air Command of Indian Air Force is a unique Air Force Command as its area of operations extends from the world’s highest airfields in the Himalayas to the deserts of Rajasthan. Raised as No.1 Operational Group after independence in 1947, it was re-designated as an Operational Command in 1949. In 1963 it was fully developed as ‘Western Air Command, IAF’.

[Jamal K. Malik]

Modernisation of Air Force

[SriSri]

Telephonics Corp to Supply Aft Radar for India's Boeing P-8i Maritime Patrol Aircraft

[vardhank]

Getting a rant over from the Design Your Own Fighter thread...

>> Forget even the 4++ part, what I basically want is a viable 4th gen jet, twin-engined and twin-seating, affordable and able to be made in India.

unfortunately the IAF doesn't want a larger LCA. your best bet is to form your own air force and fund this project.

Sigh. Oh well, all right. Who's signing up? I can promise good canteen food, at least.

On a serious note, maybe decisions like this shouldn't be left entirely to the armed forces. With the nonsense over the LCA and the Arjun, maybe the IAF and IA need to be told that they're not capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality and that they need to start supporting viable projects as well, if they're going to demand the very edge of tech. There's a spoilt-kid feel to the whole thing, and we could get into trouble because of it.

Basically, I think the IAF missed a few tricks.
1) If they'd been sensible with the LCA's ASRs, we'd have had a simpler plane, a JF-17 type, but 10 years ago. It wouldn't have been anywhere as sophisticated as the Tejas, but we'd have had a perfectly good 3+/4- jet, and we'd have been able to start making up the numbers. Even if it was only slightly more capable than the Bison, it would've worked.
2) Starting a parallel project once the one above looked like it was going to work. Basically, a Tejas/Tejas Mk 2, or even a medium fighter, 4+ gen. It could've been ready by say 2017, and even a deay wouldn't have hurt us as the delay in the LCA is hurting us now. If we wanted to show off what we could do, this was the plane to do it with.
3) They should have ordered another 150+ Mirages when they had the chance.
4) The basic lack of support given to the LCA (though still not as bad as the IA with the Arjun, which is frankly ridiculous), and the clear preference for imported goods. It's a classic case:
"Daddy, daddy, I want that wooden horse in the window."
"Well, son, we can't really afford it, but look, I'll make you one. What do you say?"
"NOOOOOOOOO! I want the one in the WINDOW! WAAAAAAH!"
And actually, it's worse becase here it's the son offering to make the horse while Daddy throws a tantrum.

If they'd done what I've put up here, we'd have had a perfectly good air force now, which we could've supplemented with the MMRCA, PAK-FA/FGFA and the AMCA whenever they became ready, and not had the headache of falling numbers and the lack of readiness. the AF wouldn't have been so shiny, but it would've worked perfectly well.

Instead, the IAF's gone for a dream air force strategy: going by their procurements, we're going to have a cutting-edge AF by about 2025, when we have the LCA Mk2, the MMRCA, a presumably improved Su-30, the PAK-FA/FGFA, maybe even the AMCA nearing IOC. We'd be heavily dependent on imports, but with kick-butt planes. Great. Sweet. If Pakistan and China are kind enough to hold on till then, we'll be eternally grateful and thump them. If they decide to attack us now, we're up a certain brown, sticky creek.

Hmph. Anyway, as I said, this was a rant. I can't change the past. I just hope the future is kind to us.

[bmallick]

Instead, the IAF's gone for a dream air force strategy: going by their procurements, we're going to have a cutting-edge AF by about 2025, when we have the LCA Mk2, the MMRCA, a presumably improved Su-30, the PAK-FA/FGFA, maybe even the AMCA nearing IOC. We'd be heavily dependent on imports, but with kick-butt planes. Great. Sweet. If Pakistan and China are kind enough to hold on till then, we'll be eternally grateful and thump them. If they decide to attack us now, we're up a certain brown, sticky creek.

Hmph. Anyway, as I said, this was a rant. I can't change the past. I just hope the future is kind to us.

I totally agree with what you said sir. Also, with due respect to the forces, I would like to point out certain things which, I feel somehow forces, baring the IN seem to be forgetting.

If we look at the last two world wars, Germans did have some of the most cutting edge weapons, rockets, tiger tanks, subs which were the terror of the sea, fokkers which were the scourge of the air, however in both the cases they were on the losing side. I think this was a case of allied doggedness and persistence. Having the best tech is helpful but it cannot supplement persistence and presence on the battlefield, air and sea. Such presence and persistence can only happen if you have certain bare minimum numbers and the capability to pump up and churn out numbers when it matters.

If I were China, if I want to go to war with India, I would go for a stretched, heavy attrition war, because I know that after the initial losses on both side , I have the industrial might to pump in the numbers, but India being dependent on imports would be really hard pressed to do the same. Also, in such a scenario the hasty imports if any would definitely would be gold priced, because after all the foreign arms manufacturer are in for making money, not for defending India.

Having a force today is far better than having a cutting edge force tomorrow. IAF & IA in this matter seems to have missed the bus completely. Even now with recent news reports of new policy for defence production emphasing on indigenious things, its again the IN which is going full down the path. Why cant the other to services do the same comitiment.