Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 20:07

Siding with PRC at the risk of completely cutting off US may not pay the results TSP is looking for unless this is only a tactically brilliant posturing to scare unkil. But for PRC even this posturing provides a lot of benefits without taking any risks. If tomorrow pakistan hits the fan they can always claim they were issuing statements to protect their regional interests and stability but were not looking for trouble with US. They gain a lot of things from this posturing. Apart from a boost to their world power image they also gain further leverage in the region (against India) and world politics without spending much money and blood.

TSP meanwhile is taking a very big risk. They have moved from one crisis to another for such a long time that it has become their daily life. What may appear as suicidal to others is just another crisis for pakis. The problem with such a mindset is that they will never know it when they finally bite something more than they can chew, not until it is too late. IMO.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 27 Sep 2011 20:09

JE Menon wrote:Mr. Magoo's motto seems to be "where there's a wig, there's a way" ...

Funny!. I would also add in the fashion of H.L. Mencken: "..and it is usually the wrong one."

OT but on the subject of 'way.." Check out this video at 3.20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpL7JQ7NoP4

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 27 Sep 2011 20:12

From Tribune news story(posting in full). Posting here for maximum visibility. Some WKK lurkers may still be able to redeem themselves rather than side with the demons across the border.
A ‘mangal sutra’, some miniature Hindu sculptures and two corpses

By Sarfaraz Memon - Published: September 27, 2011
According to the post-mortem report, both the women were shot from an approximate distance of one foot. PHOTO: FILE

SUKKUR: One of the best ways to throw the police off the trail of a cold-blooded murder is to pass the victims off as Hindus{Everyone in TSP knows that the police will not follow up on a crime if the victim happens to be Hindu.}. And indeed this is what the killers of a woman and her daughter did in a graveyard in Dhamra town near Larkana on the night of September 20 and 21.

One of the victims had a ‘mangal sutra’ around her neck, the type that Hindu women wear after they are married. In the purses next to the bodies the police discovered a number of Hindu miniature sculptures. The Larkana police sent the bodies for an autopsy to Chandka Medical College Hospital. According to the post-mortem report, both the women were shot from an approximate distance of one foot.

Initially, nobody was willing to identify or claim the bodies which is why the authorities decided to call Edhi to hand them over for burial {Even though the clue suggested that the victims were hindus, the police chose to bury instead of cremate the unindentified dead victims. Even in death there is no dignity for Hindus in TSP.}. However, before the bodies could be transferred, Sikandar Junejo – who is the son of Pakistan Peoples Party Larkana taluka president Mazhar Junejo – went to the hospital and identified the victims as his aunt and cousin, sources said.

According to him, the elderly woman was his 60-year-old aunt Kulsoom – the second wife of former assistant commissioner Mohammad Saleh Qazi – and her 22-year-old daughter Saba Naz.

They were buried in their ancestral graveyard where their bodies were found – the graveyard they were visiting to pay respects to their father’s grave. Mazhar lodged an FIR against four unidentified people.

Sources claimed that the mother and daughter had been staying in a hotel in Larkana since September 7. They left the hotel without informing the management on September 18. The women left unnoticed and without paying their hotel bill. Surprisingly, they left all their personal belongings behind – which police claim includes their clothes and property documentation for a huge tract of agricultural land worth millions of rupees near Dhamra town.

According to well-informed sources, Kulsoom was allegedly involved in a dispute with her brother Mazhar over the family property which could have been the reason behind the murders.

The hotel manager said when the women failed to show up for two days, he contacted them on their cell phone on the evening of September 20. Kulsoom picked up and assured him that they were arranging for the money and would clear the dues as soon as they could. But the manager never heard back from them. Dhamra Police SHO Manthar Umrani told The Express Tribune that: “It seems that somebody else was with the women on the night of the murder because women could not dare to go to the graveyard on their own and especially late at night.”

According to him, police have found two cell phones and a few packets of juice from the crime scene. SHO Umrani revealed that both the women were shot from a 9mm pistol. When asked where they could have been while they were away from the hotel from September 18 to 20, the officer said it was confusing but that they could have been with relatives.

Published in The Express Tribune, September 27th, 2011.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 20:15

ramana wrote:Where are the greens on this air pollution?

The greens who burned it are purer than the ones coming out to protest. Who wants to be a cutlet saar?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2011 20:18

Touche!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2011 20:24

The US knows that public sentiment in Pakistan is anti-USA
The US now admits that the Pakistani army is anti USA
But the US is sitting right there in Pakistan with Pakistan serving as hub in the Afghan war effort.

Looking at it in this way, it is clear that t was the Pakistanis who had up the ante if they were going to tell the US what they felt. That is what they did. I am certain the Paki army would have thought this out in some detail. They would understand that opposing the US wold mean loss of a lot of benefits. Pakistan does not have much wiggle room here. Technicallly the US occupies and attacks parts of Pakistan and the Pakistani army should have been directly fighting the US years ago, when the drone attacks stared. But they did not. They put up with that, allowed the US bases n Pakistan and accepted aid. Occupation of Pakistan and attacks in Pakistan and accepting US aid was not shameful for the Pakistan army.

The shame came only from Raymond Davis and Abbotabad. Shame for the Pakistani army has traditionally been glossed over and presented as a victory of sorts. One useful method was to either give up power to civilians if the army was ruling, or to take or power and blame the shame on civilians. But gradually, wth the coming of cable TV and the internet, I believe the Pakistan army is less popular in Pakistan than it used to be. Pakistan may not be ready for a military coup. The army's unpopularity is because of its perceived truck with the US. So even if there was a coup the army wold still have to deal with the US. The Pakistan army has decided to regain some honor. 26/11 itself was used in Pakistan as a way of showing how the kafir Indian could be cowed down at will by Pakistanis, and that they wold not be able to do a thing. I suspect the recent attacks on US targets are meant to give a similar signal to the Paki people. The Pakistani army is strong and has options that can cow down a superpower and there is not a lot the US can do.

The Paki army is right. Provided attacks against the US are kept below a particular threshold th US will get angry but cannot declare war. India too faced a similar dilemma after the parliament attack and 26/11. Each of these resulted in a sense of great triumph and power to the Pakistani people. It brings honor to the army and the brave cadres of the irregular Paki Islamic militia like the LeT and the Hackany faction.

But in the long term this is not going to help Pakistan or its army. It will be defeated without war because war is what is most beneficial to the Pakistani army and Islamists. JMT

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 27 Sep 2011 20:24

From Tribune news story(posting in full). A quick update on the female TSP IT specialist serving time in a US prison for her project work.
Aafia’s family says it has nothing to do with funds campaign

By Saba Imtiaz - Published: September 27, 2011

Sister says she was out of town when banners seeking donations were put up. PHOTO: FILE

KARACHI: Until a few weeks ago, banners asking for Rs1.5 million in donations for the legal defence of Aafia Siddiqui adorned several neighbourhoods in Karachi.

Aafia is serving an 86-year sentence in the US on charges of attempting to kill US officials in Afghanistan. She is also widely believed to have been supporting al Qaeda.

Those banners, according to Aafia’s sister Dr Fauzia Siddiqui, have been removed at her behest as Fauzia does not believe this is the “right way” to ask for money and the banners were put up while she was not in Pakistan.

“It is not appropriate to ask for alms and donations for daughters. It is a daughter’s right.”

Fauzia Siddiqui was cagey in her responses over how the fundraising and legal appeal would work.

“Once we know how much the lawyer(s) fee will be, we will arrange that people directly contribute to the lawyers’ fund. I do not want to be involved in the middle. I also don’t want people to allege that I collected money in my sister’s name,” she said.

Since Aafia’s current legal defence team is court-appointed, there appears to be no need of funds for her case.

While she already has court-appointed lawyers, Fauzia says Aafia and their family have no confidence in the legal team.

Fauzia Siddiqui wants to engage Tina Foster of the International Justice Network, who represents their family, as Aafia’s lawyer. “We already saw what kind of case they (court-appointed lawyers) fought, without any witnesses or forensic evidence,” she told The Express Tribune. “They are corporate lawyers, they’re not criminal lawyers. We need proper appellate lawyers to fight the case.”

Aafia’s court-appointed lawyer Dawn Cardi’s website states that she has over 30 years of experience with the criminal defence system. Her firm specialises in matrimonial and family law, criminal defence and select federal and New York State litigation. She could not be immediately reached for comment.

However, Fauzia said Foster is not a criminal lawyer either.

While Fauzia said she would be meeting with and finalising the legal team in the first week of October, she declined to say if she would be meeting them in the US.

After being sentenced, Aafia fired her lawyers and waived her right to an appeal. In a letter to the presiding judge in her case, she stated: “I waive all my rights to file an appeal against the unjust sentence given to me on September 23, 2010. Nobody has the right to appeal it on my behalf in any court of law in the world. I have made my appeal to God and it has been answered.”

Fauzia also said the family is also getting visitation rights to Aafia, though she claims that in the past, their brother has been turned away from the jail by officials who allegedly told him that “normal rules do not apply to your sister”. Aafia is currently incarcerated at the Carswell prison in Texas.

Published in The Express Tribune, September 27th, 2011

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 27 Sep 2011 20:29

From Tribune news story(posting in full). Now the waji-bull-cattle have their own website.
Pakistani Athiests and Agnostics take message online

By Atika Rehman - Published: September 27, 2011
The website provides a forum for atheists to learn more about secularism.

To the Atheists and Agnostics of Pakistan – you are not alone

This statement is posted on the recently launched website of Pakistani Athiests and Agnostics (PAA), which describes itself as a “social organisation for atheists, agnostics and freethinkers of Pakistan.”

The website claims to be affiliated with Atheist Alliance International (AAI), an international community that aims to educate its members and the world at large about issues related to secularism and atheism.

Like its international counterpart, PAA hopes to promote the separation of state and religion and spread awareness about atheism by providing a forum for visitors and users who comment on the various blogs and articles posted on the site.

According to a report published in Pakistan Today, the site got more than 17,000 hits in a mere 48 hours after its launch from 95 countries, including Saudi Arabia.

The Press Trust of India reported last year that PAA was founded by Hazrat Nakhuda, a former Muslim and young computer programmer from Lahore. In a discussion on PAA’s closed Facebook page with the subject “How did you become an atheist” Nakhuda writes:

I used to be a practising Muslim. I used to live in Saudi Arabia. I have done two Hajs and countless Umrahs. Used to pray five times a day. When I turned 17-18, I realised that the only reason I was a Muslim was because my parents were Muslims.
The Facebook group currently has 644 members and applicants are told that their requests to join may not always be successful, with the simple statement:

If your profile does not show that you fit under the definition of the community title or if your profile is closed drop me a message. Otherwise i will not let you in.

Aek, a founder of PAA, says that almost two weeks went into designing and planning the project another went into coding and debugging. The website was tested for three days and major bugs were spotted and fixed.

One comment worth reading on this articles page

InfAxis - 3 hours ago
Reply @Pseudo free thinkers

Being a member of a group and a Pakistani, I can tell you that being born in a muslim family and then abandoning your faith is a crime in itself in Pakistan. Even if the written law doesn’t say anything about it, there will be countless mujahids ready to slit our throats in the hope for a plot in heaven. If it was only about open debate as you put it, it would be an open platform but as much as we love public debate, we also kinda like to not-die .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2011 20:30

shiv

Hackany faction

Very apt description of the Haqqanis now that they are doing that in Afghanistan.

Yes "no-war" war is the way to get TSP. India figured that out in Operation Parakram.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 27 Sep 2011 20:42

mungerilal ke hasin sapanay

Pakistan is able to retaliate if need be

The Senate’s Standing Committee on Defense said on Tuesday that the US will never dare to attack Pakistan, however Pakistan is fully capable to retaliate if ever necessary

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Sep 2011 21:05

pakistan is happily rattling its sabres in the safe knowledge that unkil will not do anything
but unkil is more capable of calling this bluff than sdre's next door
the suckup to china is indeed about mutual defense pact, but dragon is not going to go to war with unkil over munna

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 27 Sep 2011 21:14

Question for BR gurus...

The west knows the support of Chinese to Paki's terrorism and nuclear weapons. The Chinese too have assets now all around the world (Africa, Canada, POK, Bangladesh, Mynammar etc) where they build lot of things or mine at will.

Would the west (and India) dare to support local insurgencies which will attack Chinese interests as a way to blackmail China to stop supporting the terrorists? Can China defense it? Why don't we think of this as an option to counter Chinese terrorist support to Pukestan?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Sep 2011 21:29

ramana wrote:Mr Magoo is a funny cartoon character. Shiv was using it to make a point.

Well, Magoo was the title bestowed on Poak Gillani and now we have Indian Magoo licking Pepe' Le Pew .

arun · Post by **arun** » 27 Sep 2011 21:38

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

The Global reach of Islamic Terrorism emanating from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Uighur charged for plotting an attack in Norway targeting the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten that caricatured the Prophet Muhammad, received explosive training where else but in the epicentre of global Mohammadden terrorism, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Charges filed in Norway terror plot

September 27, 2011

OSLO, Norway—A Norwegian prosecutor has filed terror charges against three men accused in an al-Qaida linked plot to attack a Danish newspaper that caricatured the Prophet Muhammad.

Director of Public Prosecutions Tor-Aksel Busch filed an indictment late Monday against Mikael Davud, Shawan Sadek Saeed Bujak and David Jakobsen, who were arrested in July 2010. All three have pleaded innocent…………………….

Davud, a 40-year-old ethnic Uighur from China, was charged with receiving explosives training at an al-Qaida training camp in Pakistan and agreeing to blow up one of several offices of newspaper Jyllands-Posten in Denmark……………………

Boston Globe

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 27 Sep 2011 22:03

vijayk wrote: Would the west (and India) dare to support local insurgencies which will attack Chinese interests as a way to blackmail China to stop supporting the terrorists? Can China defense it? Why don't we think of this as an option to counter Chinese terrorist support to Pukestan?

Fortunately, India is not a Pakistan or a Somalia. We do have certain standards! Terrorism and asymmetric warfare are employed by the weak to counter the strong, which unless being for a real purpose would unnecessary lead to a loss of precious and innocent lives. Terrorism has no good outcome, it only takes a nation downwards and there is no return as witnessed for our neighbor to the west! Revenge is sometimes good, but India is noble and judicious and its good IMO. We would rather take the Chinese head on and we have capability for that!

Nice thinking but!

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 27 Sep 2011 22:09

nutty nation is gearing up for war
[url=xxxhttp://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Opinions/Editorials/27-Sep-2011/Unity-for-national-defence]Unity for national defence[/url]

Pakistan would give the USA a befitting reply if it came to combat between the two

It is unfortunate that it took Pakistan to the brink of war with it for it to end the US alliance, but if that is the price that must be paid, then so be it.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 27 Sep 2011 22:14

Missile strike kills 5 in South Waziristan

WANA: Five people were killed and two wounded in a missile strike in South Waziristan tribal region on Tuesday.

According to sources, the missile targeted a house located in Warsak area of South Waziristan, killing people on the spot and leaving two others wounded.

The house was also completely destroyed in the attack. SAMAA

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 22:21

Pakistani tribesmen threaten US with holy war

On Tuesday, hundreds of tribesmen gathered in Landikotal, a town on Pakistan’s northwestern border with Afghanistan, mobilised by religious party Jamaat-e-Islami to protest against the United States.

Waving party flags and wearing ribbons inscribed with Koranic verses, dozens of tribesmen joined the throng armed with Kalashnikovs, an AFP reporter said.

“We announce the holy war against America if they attack Pakistan,” Siraj-Ul-Haq, the party’s deputy head, told the gathering.

“The whole nation will wage a jihad against America and will fight against them shoulder to shoulder with Pakistani armed forces,” Haq added.

They did not get it from India but US provided TSP the war they were looking for. Now ummah biraders will rise up all over the country to shout jeehaard on the streets.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Sep 2011 22:25

US want operation against Haqqani network from Pak: Toner

He said that we have carried out a number of Executive Order 13224 designations that target, essentially the kingpins of the Haqqani Network – financiers, leadership, as well as some of its most dangerous operatives.

He said that in 2008 we targeted Siraj Haqqani, in 2011 Badruddin Haqqani, Sangeen Zadran in 2011, and on the Treasury side, we designated Nasiruddin Haqqani in 2010, Khalil Haqqani in 2011, Ahmed Jan Zadran in 2011, as well as Fazl Rabi in 2011. So certainly FTO designation is something under review, but the idea that we haven’t gone after the Haqqani Network at all, I think, is a mischaracterization. Like I said, we’ve affectively targeted many of the kingpins in the organization.

He said that we share a common threat from terrorism with the Pakistani Government, we have worked constructively in the past, we’ve seen that relationship yield tangible results, we have a relationship that is rooted in our candor, and we have expressed our concerns to them about it. But all the while, we’re also committed to working with them to address it.

On the question of denial of Pakistan from action against Haqqani group Mark Toner said that he has seen some news reports, adding that he has not seen the actual statements from any officials.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 27 Sep 2011 22:26

abhijitm wrote:nutty nation is gearing up for war
Unity for national defence

Snippets from the above:

That Admiral Mullen did not speak on the spur of the moment, but as the beginning of a campaign was shown by the statement by prominent Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who is also a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, that ‘all options’ were on the table against Pakistan, a strange thing indeed to say of such a close ally.

Wow, TSP never fails to amuse. The imbeciles still think they are an ally after what they have done and expect to be treated gently. Strange threats indeed, afterall TSP is used to only mollycoddling.

This is in addition to the statement by Interior Minister Rehman Malik, in the course of a press conference on capturing an arms cache in Turnol, that Pakistan would give the USA a befitting reply if it came to combat between the two.

Wow, this is the height of Machoism, way to go TSP.

Also, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar, during an interview to an American TV channel on her current visit to the USA to attend the UN General Assembly session, has warned the USA not to test Pakistan’s patience, because otherwise the doors of cooperation could be shut.

Thank you for your co-operation. What would we do without you TSP, you are an angel, sorry purer than the pure saint.

This is consistent with the corps commanders who met, unusually on a Sunday, to say two things: first, that the American allegations were wrong, and second, that the armed forces would give the USA a befitting response if there was an attack.

Befitting reply with what, US supplied F-16s, AMRAAMS, stingers, APCs!!! That would be some show, have you forgotten your precious Orions fried by a handful rag-tag Jehadis whom you thought God-sent avatars. We would so look forward to you going to war.

This is the time when multipartisan delegations must go to friendly countries and build up support for Pakistan at this crucial juncture. This is the time when the country should make it clear that its traditional allies must also make the stark choice that is now afforded Pakistan.

Or what! Either you are with us or against us? We will bomb you to stone-age??

This is perhaps not the time to go into how the unreasoning political obedience of the USA by the nation’s political and military elite have led to this pass. So long as the national interest is maintained, past mistakes can be overlooked.

Hope Allah forgives your mistakes and you reach your 72 soon enough.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Sep 2011 22:30

US want operation against Haqqani network from Pak: Toner

Today is a No Moon day(amavas) and the night is young in Pakistan and younger in more western parts of Pakistan. A very favorable night for special ops. I am expecting an operation tonight to expose and further embarrass Pakistan. Haqqani killed in a daring raid by US Spl Forces would be a death blow for Kayani. He would be finished as the Army chief.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 27 Sep 2011 22:32

Oh taller than mountain penis
let me hold you tight
'cause you are my light
when I torch you in the dark

[url=XXXhttp://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Opinions/Editorials/27-Sep-2011/China-shows-its-muscle]China shows its muscle[/url]

There is strong reason to believe that the US as a consequence will reconsider its approach towards Islamabad and would most probably be forced to put an end to its sabre-rattling. It is clear that it cannot afford to flirt with the idea of taking on a country like Pakistan that has the all-out support of China

China is now willing to confront the US merely to protect us

That China has helped us in the nuclear field and its military cooperation manifested in the production of JF-17 Thunder jet has considerably strengthened our defence

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Sep 2011 22:34

This is the time when multipartisan delegations must go to friendly countries and build up support for Pakistan at this crucial juncture. This is the time when the country should make it clear that its traditional allies must also make the stark choice that is now afforded Pakistan.

Ah..that clears up SMKs reception thing. Smiling Paki faces.

BTW do we have any broadcasting services into Pakistan? We should start broadcasting patriotic wartime songs..about Djinns coming to Porki Army rescue and such. Brave Paki fighters decimating Indian forces, super powers and such. Think the time is ripe to chadao them up the chana ka jhaad. Sit down with popcorn and sip beer.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 27 Sep 2011 22:37

^^ pakis have nothing to fear. They have JF-17 the bandar.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Sep 2011 22:38

Hi Gubolanders,
You remain naukars , always in need of master. Understand now that why and how you converted. Unable to face the sword , you have been doing GUBO for thousand years to satisfy the carnal desires of many lords.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Sep 2011 22:40

abhijitm wrote:^^ pakis have nothing to fear. They have JF-17 the bandar.

I am counting on it. Atleast it should be able to jump trees and throw coconuts.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 27 Sep 2011 23:07

Pakistan holds anti-US protest rallies

The Taliban took the unusual step Tuesday of insisting that they, not Pakistan, control the Haqqani network and of advising Islamabad to stand firm in the face of "America's two-faced and implacable politics".
"The respected Maulawi Jalaluddin Haqqani (the group's founder) is (one of the) Islamic Emirate's honourable and dignified personalities and receives all guidance for operations from the leader of the Islamic Emirate," they said.
Pakistan was historically the Taliban's closest foreign ally.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 27 Sep 2011 23:18

Interesting to observe NYT is now devoting three pages to discuss TSP!

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 28 Sep 2011 00:03

abhishek_sharma wrote:U.S.-Pakistan relations: Is this the end of the affair?

Interesting comment

In response, the Pakistani military's high command has rallied the country's civilian leadership to reject the U.S. ultimatum to end Islamabad's relationship with the Haqqanis. Pakistan's foreign minister warns that America risks "losing an ally"; Pakistani officials warn of an outpouring of Pakistani hostility and Islamic radicalization should America take its drone war to the Haqqani headquarters in Miram Shah. Apparently the Haqqani network really is that valuable -- and that intimate with -- Pakistan's security services, to the point where the entire apparatus of the Pakistani state is rallying to its defense.

And it is not only the official apparatus. Even the jihadi apparatus is coming in all out defence of Hackanies.

[url=http://www.d_a_w_n.com/2011/09/27/pakistani-tribesmen-threaten-us-with-holy-war.html]Pakistani tribesmen threaten US with holy war for Haqqanis[/url]

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 28 Sep 2011 00:07

AnantD wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162- ... 03543.html
Fundamental lies exposed in splintering U.S.-Pakistan alliance
Prem, this link is gone!! Just disappeared like OBL's carcass. Bad sign, maybe CBS got a phone call.

Just re-appeared again, maybe with some word changes? I saved a copy to read at leisure.

Lara Logan goes to the point and makes people Musharrafs uncomfortable.

Hi AnantD, if you have the article saved can you please email me a copy on harry.stamper918 @ gmail dot com, Thanks.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 28 Sep 2011 00:21

Pakistan pushes back against U.S. charges, woos China
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/ ... IP20110927

"The negative messaging, naturally that is disturbing my people," Gilani said in the interview from his office in Islamabad. "If there is messaging that is not appropriate to our friendship, then naturally it is extremely difficult to convince my public. Therefore they should be sending positive messages."

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Sep 2011 00:58

Meanwhile there is little change in the mindset ... wrt to training of non-state actors... From the archives:
1971 picture

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 28 Sep 2011 01:17

9/11 conspirator lost in the "ether"

Said Bahaji shared an apartment with hijacker Mohammed Atta and was one of the Hamburg cell of 9/11 conspirators. Ten years on, the German-Moroccan remains at large, leaving only the faintest of trails. Bahaji has managed to outlive much of al-Qaeda's original leadership, most likely either in one of Pakistan's sprawling urban centers or by evading drones in the AfPak tribal areas.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 28 Sep 2011 01:38

All this just does not makes sense to me anymore. If I were to put my self in the shoes of the TSPA COAS then it would make perfect sense to tell Haqqani's to back off for a while and also persuade the Afghan Taliban (using ISI contacts) to lay low and go slow on the IED's et all. Meanwhile continue back channel talk with the Americans and persuade them to leave Afghanistan ASAP while declaring some sort of victory in defeating the Taliban.

After America leaves then it'll be a free circus for TSP in Afghanistan , they will remain on American good books , allow Chinese friendship to expand and focus on India for the terror related activities. What then is the rational explanation for the Pakis doing what they are doing and pushing the envelope too far while showing false bravado and antagonizing everyone.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 28 Sep 2011 01:41

eklavya wrote:Pakistan pushes back against U.S. charges, woos China
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/ ... IP20110927

"The negative messaging, naturally that is disturbing my people," Gilani said in the interview from his office in Islamabad. "If there is messaging that is not appropriate to our friendship, then naturally it is extremely difficult to convince my public. Therefore they should be sending positive messages."

Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ#t=0m28s

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 28 Sep 2011 01:44

Here is Hajam Sethi's latest Aapas ki baat episode (27th September). Hajam is trying to open the eyes of the mango apdul (whose eyes have been closed by the hogwash created by other tv talk shows and news channels that China iz here to replace US as the primary alm giver and also to support Pak in all thick and thin come what may). Hajam Sethi clearly tells to whoever is watching that China can never pay the whore as much as Unkil used to pay, and also the Chinese arms are not of equivalent quality to the ones that India is getting from Russia or US or EU (at a later date) and deputy PM flom China is actually intelligence chief who is here to tell Pakwhore in private to stop training and sending insurgents from FATA to Xin-ki-ang, the only difference being Unkil does cheer-haran in public and China asks the whore to GUBO in plivate.

Link

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Sep 2011 01:59

eklavya wrote:Pakistan pushes back against U.S. charges, woos China

ISLAMABAD (AP) - Pakistan's interior minister vowed Tuesday to attack Chinese militants hiding out in his country's tribal region, an apparent attempt to curry favor with China at a time when its alliance with the U.S. is severely strained.

From: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/09/ ... 03198.html

Also breaking news of the push-back:

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan -- Pakistani intelligence officials say an American missile strike has killed at least three people in a militant stronghold near the Afghan border.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 28 Sep 2011 02:00

Shaashtanga wrote:
Hi AnantD, if you have the article saved can you please email me a copy on harry.stamper918 @ gmail dot com, Thanks.

Fundamental lies exposed in splintering U.S.-Pakistan alliance

Commentary: Lara Logan is chief foreign correspondent for CBS News.

The U.S. relationship with Pakistan is unraveling.

This began when Osama bin Laden took a Navy SEAL bullet to his chest and then his head.

In that moment, the lie that has defined this relationship was exposed. And it became a matter of time before this relationship had to be redefined.

The unraveling is a slow and fascinating descent. The truth lies somewhere at the bottom of a very black pool thick with the blood of American soldiers.

Finally, when it is all exposed and there is no more pretense, we might be able to honor those who have died in Afghanistan. Until that point, their deaths are a stain on our national pride and everything that America is supposed to represent.

Because we sent our own into harm's way in Afghanistan, without telling them or the country that it was an impossible fight.

And it is not impossible because there is no way to defeat the enemy. It is impossible for two simple reasons. First, the enemy is inside Pakistan, not Afghanistan; Second, only one side is fighting a war -- and it's not us.

Somewhere along the way we stopped believing it was possible to defeat the Taliban and its allies because we found ourselves trapped in a war with no end, where we could not rely on our allies and all that blood and treasure seemed to be squandered for no reason.

The truth is it became impossible to defeat the Taliban because of a political decision - and agreement with Pakistan - not to target the enemy leadership and fighters once they crossed the Afghan border into Pakistan. Not because they are so powerful or popular or important to Afghanistan. But because they are protected by a supposed U.S. ally, Pakistan, who offered to help us defeat al Qaeda instead, and by a terrible U.S. political miscalculation, probably based in arrogance - and ignorance.

The truth is also that the U.S. and NATO stopped fighting a war in Afghanistan the moment Kabul fell and Osama bin Laden was able to escape Tora Bora and slip across the border to safety inside Pakistan. The U.S. stopped fighting a war and instead came up with another name - "counter-insurgency." That was just another politically-motivated excuse not to face reality or make the tough decisions that needed to be made.

There was no such self-deception on the other side. The Taliban and its allies were very clear on where they stood: They were at war, fighting to regain control of their country and defeat then U.S. anywhere and everywhere they could be reached.

While we pretended that building schools and roads was the answer and the path to peace and a better future for all in Afghanistan, our enemies were training and recruiting and perfecting their tactics and performance on the battlefield.

While we were lying to ourselves and calling this fight a counter-insurgency, the Taliban were rallying their supporters and troops with a call to arms, a fight to the death, a war with America.

When you can send 10 or 15 or even 30 suicide bombers into a battle with the U.S. or an attack on an American base -- as the Taliban have repeatedly -- those fighters are not poor men looking to make a quick buck.

Do not accept that there is no way to counter U.S. enemies like the Haqqani network, which has come to attention since the recent attack on the U.S. embassy in Kabul.

Cell phones link Pakistan to U.S. embassy attack

There is a way and it is very simple. The Haqqani network does not exist without the Haqqanis.

Your "partners" in the Pakistani military, your "allies" in the Pakistani security establishment know where they are on a daily, if not hourly basis.

There is no "Haqqani network" without the Haqqanis.

When you can rally dozens of troops to set off into the most unforgiving mountains in the middle of winter, to lay in wait in the freezing cold, without the comfort of a warm fire and hot food and lie in wait for an attack on a remote American outpost, just so you can have the greatest degree of surprise and chance of success, then you are not dealing with men who are frustrated with government corruption and are just looking to make some money.

You are in the midst of a serious, full-blown war and to have any chance of defeating your enemy, at the very least you have to recognize that you are not in a campaign-style battle for the support of the population. You are, in fact, in the midst of a full-blown all-out war that you cannot afford to lose.

You have not won. You are not yet safe. You have not sent a message to the world that you will not be attacked in the way America was attacked on 9/11. You have not convinced people across the globe that you are serious, that you will not tolerate any incursion or loss of life on your soil, no matter what. You have not said to the world in no uncertain terms that you will prevail no matter what.

Instead, you have lied to yourself. You have changed the name of "war" to counter-insurgency even when the very definition of the terms denies the simple facts - that the Taliban is not an "insurgent" group trying to overthrown a legitimate government. That they were the government when the U.S. got involved and they are now fighting a war to regain the power they lost to their enemies, because of the U.S. bombing campaign in 2001.

If this sounds like a call to arms, it is not.

It is simply a statement of truth. All it what it is. If you are not prepared to fight a war, do not send your troops to war.

If you are not prepared to kill your enemy where they stand, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, by whatever means possible, then do not lie to your troops and your nation and pretend you are at war.

Do not lie to the Afghan people and pretend you are there for them.

Get out. Go home.

And live with the consequences

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 28 Sep 2011 02:02

^^ Thanks Kasthuri.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2011 02:07

Nihat, Right now the threat to TSPA is from the jhadis after Abortabad. So by appearing to be standing up to US, he gains stature with the jihadis.
Its an upside down world that TSP lives in.