Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Nov 2012 05:00

One needs to understand that when it comes to maps, the cool-UI is NOT the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is to gather data, fix it, refresh it across ALL the markets. And do this while keeping the OPEX for maintaining/serving the data and collecting the data minimal. There is no short-cut in maps. It is sheer hard work.

Google and Nokia both have different approaches depending on their strengths, but none of them have reached the current level of coverage in a day.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Nov 2012 05:33

^the model is clear in the sense not all geographic data changes that random. so, any change has the coordinates / sector and only that needs to be updated.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Nov 2012 13:31

@Saikji, in theory yes, in practice No. In practice, there are always calibration variations between different runs of the capturing vehicles. This means the fresh data has to be registered again in the exact positions. This means computing resources for matching/extracting/replacing the correct chunks. POI coverage/refresh is a major issue for ALL. Even more in ASIA where cities are growing/changing very fast. So behind the glitz and glamour, it may well be rickshaws/cars carrying equipment, people on motorbikes manually checking out POIs, etc.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 28 Nov 2012 15:33

SaiK wrote:^the model is clear in the sense not all geographic data changes that random. so, any change has the coordinates / sector and only that needs to be updated.

To update that sector, you have to send personnel and equipment. It is not possible to send them for one or two changes. If I understand correctly, new data for a particular region is collected after significant changes have been accumulated in that region. Navteq and tomtom have web applications where people can correct the maps. The corrected maps will not probably make it to their master data base, but they can be kept track of and can give an idea of the number of changes that happened in a particular region. Once enough developments have taken place, a vehicle can go and cover the whole region to collect the new data. For big important cities, periodic data gathering can be done irrespective of changes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Nov 2012 20:54

okay.. are we not talking satellite imagery at all? i was hoping big time names like nokia and google will use such services... even ISRO can provide some decent data at industrial pricing.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 28 Nov 2012 22:36

Aakash 2 tablet hands-on

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Nov 2012 23:39

why do kids need cheap tablets? why can't kids get cheap computers at school and home? laptops are ideal and versatile.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 29 Nov 2012 00:37

Marten wrote:Gurus, is there a Nexus 10 option with 3g? SHQ has issued a change request for a larger screen with 3g.

Else, it's out with the new Nexus 7 3G and in with the ipad 3 with 3g (at a loss of course since I've already paid the Ebay guy).

No Nexus 10 with 3G/4G at this time. Your best bet is to buy a Nexus 4 phone, which is unlocked, and you can make it a wi-fi hotspot for your Nexus 10 to tether to.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 29 Nov 2012 01:09

SaiK wrote:okay.. are we not talking satellite imagery at all? i was hoping big time names like nokia and google will use such services... even ISRO can provide some decent data at industrial pricing.

Satellite imagery is only part of the game. Annotation of those maps, verification of POIs, building facades,etc needs infantry. Shock and awe with B52s does not cover the ditches, trenches and caves of the urban landscape.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Nov 2012 01:15

good points there prahaar, did not think about the details. google in the khan lands, has done it by hiring local truck walas to video them up. perhaps it is a nice idea for desh too., as the cost of digital data space is coming down, and capacity ever increasing in solid states.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 29 Nov 2012 22:39

advantages of using non apple devices--

yesterday my gps connectors in the car got konked-- shq accidently pulled the wires.

All the pins/wires are of international standrads-- my android devices-- phones/tablets/computers/gps etc pins/wires etc work on gps and vice versa.

Anywhere in the world it is the same---
No need to buy more pins/wires etc. also less clutter.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2012 02:55

Verizon ranked the best major US carrier, AT&T ranked the worst

Mortullah, take note.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Nov 2012 02:58

Good things about AT&T is it is cheaper and certain areas have good coverage. Plus for SDREs since the same device unlocked could be used in desh (SIM/GSM ease of use).

again, I dunno much on verizon.. only switched from ATT to Sprint, just because I got a good buddy who works there.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2012 03:11

Problem with using a contemporary smartphone from massa in India is that micro or nano sims are not widely available there. I just switch to a low-end 1500 Rs. Nokia when in India - a smartphone is useless for me there since I don't use a data plan in India plus I don't need to charge the phone every day even with daily use. During current trip to the mountains & forests (N. Bengal/Sikkim/Assam), my uncle brought along his Sammy GSIII and ended up cursing the darn thing by the time the trip ended becoz he would consistently run out of charge in the most inconvenient of places and then he would have no phone/no watch/no alarm clock.

VZW is more expensive but to me it was well worth it. In terms of active daily usage, I have usedNextel 1st, then Sprint, then VZW, then VZW+TMO, then VZW+ATT. In absolute terms I would say VZW is not great, but in relative terms within massa, it is way better than any of the other networks in terms of QoS and consistency across their coverage area.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Nov 2012 03:13

Got a nokia lumia 920 last week. its pretty good. feels solid in my hands, the camera is amazing, and windows 8 is pretty user friendly.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2012 03:26

^^That's another problem - the damn thing is not available in Verizon yet

Its a bit heftier than the competition but yes, that camera rocks (literally and mechanically). I may have to switch to iPhunwa5 for personal phone.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Nov 2012 03:29

If Sprint is off my back (meaning no more buddy offers), then it is a tough fight for me between ATT and Verizon.

RB, doesn't say the lumia 920 work with a 3G data card with voice in desh? I think the cost is more or less same - around $20 equivalent. so pretty useful in the sense your contact list need not be synched up... all available in one device.

I wish they had a SIM (service) while on travel .. works everywhere, but may be at double the price only.

--

congrats pentaiah.. thanks for the feedback on win8

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 30 Nov 2012 07:34

Just recd my surface. So far so good.
Feels nice to hold it. Touch screen fine. Typing is good.
WiFi connectivity easy fast.
Internet with IE is fast.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 30 Nov 2012 10:14

^^Too few apps for RT.

Mean-e-while,

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/29/inte ... broadwell/

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 30 Nov 2012 17:17

Raja Bose wrote:^^That's another problem - the damn thing is not available in Verizon yet Its a bit heftier than the competition but yes, that camera rocks (literally and mechanically). I may have to switch to iPhunwa5 for personal phone.

It may be available after the 6months exclusive for att ends. L920s are in extreme short supply. Nokia is taking too much time to ramp up production.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Nov 2012 21:32

Raja Bose wrote:Verizon ranked the best major US carrier, AT&T ranked the worst

Mortullah, take note.

AT&T was among the lower-scoring providers, but its 4G LTE network was Rated the most favorably of any carrier. Its users reported the fewest problems with that higher-speed service, which most new smart phones now use.

ATT's LTE network is quite good - where available and to their credit they are deploying it quickly as well. In the US we will be migrating to full LTE on all carriers due to spectrum shortage.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Nov 2012 21:42

hanumadu wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:^^That's another problem - the damn thing is not available in Verizon yet Its a bit heftier than the competition but yes, that camera rocks (literally and mechanically). I may have to switch to iPhunwa5 for personal phone.
It may be available after the 6months exclusive for att ends. L920s are in extreme short supply. Nokia is taking too much time to ramp up production.

Rumor is that it will be available in a few months unlocked directly from MSFT, like Google's Nexus 4. The 920 on battery life isn't too good like the Nexus 4, but both can get more than a full day's use. The iPhone 5 is very good on battery life, but its a much smaller display.
Having used the Lumia 920, Nexus 4 (which is my daily driver), and Galaxy Note II, my favorite so far is the Note II. However, big screens aren't liked by everyone.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Nov 2012 22:33

Mort Walker wrote:ATT's LTE network is quite good - where available and to their credit they are deploying it quickly as well. In the US we will be migrating to full LTE on all carriers due to spectrum shortage.

I've noticed a lot of E<->4G<->LTE handoffs on my iphunwa paanch, here in the south bay area. I even had to reset network settings once because mine was in either E or 4G while someone sitting next to me with the same phone had LTE connectivity. When it is on LTE though, it is indeed superfast.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Nov 2012 22:48

A slight change in position and orientation can make a difference to get data connectivity as the signal strength is typically very low near -90 dBm = 1 microWatt.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 30 Nov 2012 23:25

The sister wanted an iphunwa 5 for use in India. Told her how much it costs unlocked, along with the 4S. Shocked, she says she'll settle for the nexus 4.Much cheaper and just as good? Not really a music lover and has an ipod already if needed. The 16gb version should be enough I suppose. Mortji, any failings of the nexus 4?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Dec 2012 00:31

The Nexus 4 in my opinion has three faults. One is battery life compared to the top end competition. It is better than Galaxy Nexus and Lumia 920, but not as good as the GSM version of the SGS III or iPhone 5. This is in normal use when you set brightness to auto. No surprise there as the iPhone 5 has a much smaller screen. The next fault is when you're heavy surfing, such as streaming video, it gets very warm. Finally, the Nex4 is beautiful and well crafted, but it is more fragile than other phones because of the way glass is used on the front and back. I'm still waiting on the case for it.

At this point, I really like wireless charging and it will work with Nokia wireless Qi compatible chargers. No wires no mess. The display is beautiful and it is slightly wider than most phones in the 4.5"-4.8" category that makes reading long emails and BRF posts easy. I've been a Mac user for over 6 years now and Google apps work flawlessly on the Nexus 4 and all of my 5,000 songs in iTunes are readily available on Google Play Music. If I buy a song in iTunes its instantly available on Google Music. I'm happy I've tossed out all of my iPods.

That said, the phone I really want is the Note II because it would cure my desire for another tablet. With a BlueTooth headset it is a perfect solution for me.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Dec 2012 01:19

^mort, i observed i see all the three faults with my iphone4.. but, i have not dropped on hard floors yet to check out on the crash test.

one thing i missed from android use is the cut/copy+paste... heck, it is extremely difficult copy a phone number from a list of "recents"., and paste it anywhere on fruit4.
==

btw:
http://www.everbuying.com/product234501.html

Is this a good buy for temp travel/desh use

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Dec 2012 05:20

Looks like a Fruit Co sponsored hit job for influencing jurors in future lawsuits

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 02 Dec 2012 07:40

SaiK wrote: one thing i missed from android use is the cut/copy+paste... heck, it is extremely difficult copy a phone number from a list of "recents"., and paste it anywhere on fruit4.

Really? I'd never done it before and it took me precisely a couple of seconds to figure out how to do it.
1. Go to Recents tab and it should bring up a list of the recent numbers
2. Click on the > icon next to the phone number you want to copy in the recents list to bring up the Info page for details about that number
3. Put your finger on the number that appears on top of the Info page and it should bring up a balloon that says "Copy". Click on Copy
5. Go to another app (such as the Notes app). Hold down your finger where you want to paste and it will bring up a balloon with options "Select, Select All, Paste". Click on Paste. voila!

Done on iPhone 4.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Dec 2012 09:00

Some D&G from Slashdot - who else - for M$ Surface Pro

Why Microsoft's Surface Pro Could Fail

Microsoft's Surface Pro boasts one feature that could rapidly become an Achilles Heel, especially if Microsoft intends for the device to compete against Apple's iPad and a host of lightweight Google Android touch-screens. In a Nov. 29 Tweet to a customer, the official Surface Twitter feed claimed: 'We expect it [Surface Pro] to have approx. half the battery life of Surface with Windows RT.' That means Surface Pro will have roughly four hours of battery life. That's roughly half the battery life (if not less) of Apple's various iPads, the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Research In Motion's PlayBook, Hewlett-Packard's now-cancelled TouchPad, and Motorola's all-but-forgotten Xoom. In other words, pretty much every tablet currently on the market. Nor can the Surface Pro compete with other tablets on price. The 64GB version of the device will retail for $899, with the 128GB version coming in a little higher at $999.

M$ lives upto its name - $899 and $999 - holy molys.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Dec 2012 09:53

matrimc wrote:Some D&G from Slashdot - who else - for M$ Surface Pro

Why Microsoft's Surface Pro Could Fail

Microsoft's Surface Pro boasts one feature that could rapidly become an Achilles Heel, especially if Microsoft intends for the device to compete against Apple's iPad and a host of lightweight Google Android touch-screens. In a Nov. 29 Tweet to a customer, the official Surface Twitter feed claimed: 'We expect it [Surface Pro] to have approx. half the battery life of Surface with Windows RT.' That means Surface Pro will have roughly four hours of battery life. That's roughly half the battery life (if not less) of Apple's various iPads, the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Research In Motion's PlayBook, Hewlett-Packard's now-cancelled TouchPad, and Motorola's all-but-forgotten Xoom. In other words, pretty much every tablet currently on the market. Nor can the Surface Pro compete with other tablets on price. The 64GB version of the device will retail for $899, with the 128GB version coming in a little higher at $999.
M$ lives upto its name - $899 and $999 - holy molys.

Currently similar configurations from Lenovo, Dell and HP are all costing the same or similar. This is with Intel 3rd gen I5 or I7 config. The important thing that average market analyst misses is it is not competing with Apple's iPad or Android's scores of tablets. MS had bet heavily on Azure and its enterprise cloud investment strategy is driving its W8 destop/tablet strategy.

The following two articles are worth reading.

http://www.zdnet.com/so-what-will-tomor ... 000007502/
http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-polybas ... 000007424/

It is not creating something like a Phone/Tablet and Gizmo. It is on a mission to kill its own desktop and laptop and survive in the enterprise. MS is probably one of few companies that really works on long term strategies. IBM, Oracle or other biggies are all on working modes of shareholders' quarterly results.

I was waiting for this Surface but it is too expensive. I will buy the 14 inch hybrid hard drive (750GB+32GB) ones from Samsung/Lenovo with W8 64 Pro.

I already bought Win8 Nokia Lumina 822. Mightily impressed. It has given apps for SharePoint, Lync and MS CRM. That tells the future of computing. It is not racing to create I-pad, I-mat, I-duppatta or some cheap androids.

The Win8-RT based phones and Surface/other tablets are just there to tell that MS also has something similar. It will not lead the market but will dent both Android and IOS share.

Its future is on the private cloud biz and it is betting heavily on Azure. All these Tablets (even though are expensive currently) are geared for that future.

Now also combine this with futuristic cloud in a box from Intel. That is where Wintel will go while fruit market just goes on with mini and micro skirts.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Dec 2012 09:57

matrimc wrote:Some D&G from Slashdot - who else - for M$ Surface Pro

Why Microsoft's Surface Pro Could Fail

Microsoft's Surface Pro boasts one feature that could rapidly become an Achilles Heel, especially if Microsoft intends for the device to compete against Apple's iPad and a host of lightweight Google Android touch-screens. In a Nov. 29 Tweet to a customer, the official Surface Twitter feed claimed: 'We expect it [Surface Pro] to have approx. half the battery life of Surface with Windows RT.' That means Surface Pro will have roughly four hours of battery life. That's roughly half the battery life (if not less) of Apple's various iPads, the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Research In Motion's PlayBook, Hewlett-Packard's now-cancelled TouchPad, and Motorola's all-but-forgotten Xoom. In other words, pretty much every tablet currently on the market. Nor can the Surface Pro compete with other tablets on price. The 64GB version of the device will retail for $899, with the 128GB version coming in a little higher at $999.
M$ lives upto its name - $899 and $999 - holy molys.

The bolded part is where anal-cyst babu maar kha gaye - Surface Pro is not a tablet and is not competing with them. I still think it is priced too high or rather it is missing lower price retail configurations right now such as 16GB or 32GB versions. And ChipZ needs to up its game and fix battery life.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 02 Dec 2012 18:36

^waiting for the next gen Atoms and Haswell. Q2-2013 IIRC.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 02 Dec 2012 19:42

Raja Bose wrote:The bolded part is where anal-cyst babu maar kha gaye - Surface Pro is not a tablet and is not competing with them. I still think it is priced too high or rather it is missing lower price retail configurations right now such as 16GB or 32GB versions. And ChipZ needs to up its game and fix battery life.

Views of Register / Inquirer / Slashdotters on anything Microsoft are somewhat like views of Laltopi on 26/11 terrorists. Yet almost every other tech blogger have made similar mistake: comparing Windows 8/RT convertibles with other tablets. These new touch enabled devices have different set of pros and cons compared to PC / laptops / tablets etc, so need to be weighed differently. Kind of like the way one compares Air with iMac.

There are going to be some who would love USB - HDMI/DisplayPort - SD card support - touch/type cover - Windowing environment - digitizer support - x86 windows app supprt and then there would be some who don't care about all that and would be happy with their noook or fire.

But hardware to hardware Surface Pro is NOT overpriced, because there is nothing on market which can do what Surface Pro does: 1080p+USB3+Wacom Digitizer+Palm block etc for less price.

---

But when it comes to strategy behind Surface, it is quite clear that all Microsoft wants to do is to encourage likes of HP Acer Dell to make better products. At the same time Microsoft develops capability to design/produce/sell decent devices..

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 02 Dec 2012 21:07

Btw it's more than $899... note that the Pro does not come with a touch cover...

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Dec 2012 21:30

RB,

Battery life is going to kill the surface Pro.

anmol wrote:But hardware to hardware Surface Pro is NOT overpriced, because there is nothing on market which can do what Surface Pro does: 1080p+USB3+Wacom Digitizer+Palm block etc for less price.

Samsung will have slew of Note series devices in the next year at an affordable price which will do these functions. As it is the Samsung Note 10.1 is almost there, but not quite, the Note II phablet has been a home run. It will be Android though.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Dec 2012 21:31

In the mean while Uncle Fester has been throwing chairs.

Windows 8 More Like Vista than Windows 7

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 21:40

the word vista scares the heck outta me. no way i will invest in win 8 then.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Dec 2012 21:45

^^^Stick to Windows 7. Next summer Windows 9 will be available or a nice service pack for Windows 8 to make it half-way decent.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 21:50

... and they pay heckuva lot to engineers who enjoy - slam dunk code - and go chase after bugs. sounds like they don't do engineering but only engine-rearing.