Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

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partha
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by partha »

For the first time, even if critics such as I still find it selective and not across the board as we’d like, some attempt is being made to corral runaway extremism. Suggestions such as the ones being made now, a full 18 months before COAS is scheduled to retire, can only undermine morale in the senior ranks and could also be a distraction for him.
If bad Shariff gets extension, then including Kayani, it will be 2 army chiefs for 12 years! We could expect some serving disgruntled officers to become retired and rogue :)
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Falijee »

Peregrine wrote: Footprints: Meet the meat
THE stench of rotten meat in Punjab is spreading and has seemingly reached Karachi. The social media and the news channels have been abuzz with reports about eateries and shops being sealed over the issue of dubious quality meat, the commodity being seized and people selling it being arrested. If Punjab became infamous for donkey meat and pork allegedly being offered for consumption, Sindh won’t be left behind either. We must also make a name for ourselves; dog and snake meat just might get us there.
Cheers Image
India, many, many, Eids and Ramzans ago, used to help the Muslim Momeen of Pakiland fulfill their dietary preferences; in plain language,earn phoren exchange by exporting goats, sheep (?); wondering if this is the case in present times as well .
To help in the downward ski-ing of this artificial entity, such exports (including fresh fruits and vegetables ) need to be stopped. ( like the hare- brained scheme to export "electricity" to Pakistan ). :D
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Falijee »

Al Qaeda-linked suicide bomber blows himself up during Karachi raid
KARACHI: A suicide bomber detonated his suicide jacket in Malir's Rifa-i-Aam Society on Sunday during a raid conducted by police and other law enforcement agencies in the area.
A team comprising police and other law enforcement agencies headed by Senior Superintendent Police Malir Rao Anwar was conducting a raid in Kehkashan Society where the suspect Farhan alias 'Pehlwan' was believed to be in hiding.
Farhan is suspected of targeted killing of police officers and Rangers personnel, and affiliation with Al Qaeda.[*] The weapon used by the suspect was sent to a forensics lab for further investigation.
[*] As usual,appears to be allegation without concrete evidence; if it not Al-Qaeda, then definitely RAA is involved :mrgreen:
A high-level apex committee meeting chaired by the Chief of Army Staff Gen Raheel Sharif on May 14, 2015 decided to implement effective policing and surveillance[*] in the "vast suburbs of Karachi", to prevent what the military spokesperson said were "sneaking terrorist attacks".
[*] In the name of "effective policing and surveillance", the "Bad Sharif " appears to have alienated all non-Pakjabi sections of Pakistan, including muzzling the leader of a Karachi based political party, exiled in London and ensuring the departure of the widower of a Sindh based National Party. Time is not too far away when "Evidence" will be "manufactured " to brand both of them as "Indian /RAA agents", as was done with Sheikh Mujib, and the cycle will repeat itself, this time with "devastating effect "
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Brad Goodman »

Another desi enamored by paki hospitality
http://www.dawn.com/news/1208023/arrivi ... -his-visit
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Falijee »

Teflon Raheel :roll:
IT’S silly season again. For some reason the week began with, the best there was, the best there is, the best there ever will be — King Raheel. May God save him and may he save the rest of us.
Back when Musharraf was king, back when Kayani was saviour. It’s pretty standard fare, a pretty standard arc. Luckily for Raheel, memories here are shorter than a chief’s tenure.[*]
[*] Memories are indeed short here ; they lost half of their territory, and still have not learn't their history lessons. :D [/b]
Go back to 2002. Musharraf had saved Pakistan. The court had given him three years; he had taken over with economic collapse beckoning and when Pakistan was an international pariah after the nuclear tests.

For good measure, the outside world had tired of dictators in Pakistan.

Three years in, Pakistan was in love with its commando. 9/11 may have helped rehabilitate him internationally, but his seven-point agenda had helped steady the ship domestically.

Corruption was down, professionalism was in, the country looked like it was set to go places — and the architect of the turnaround was the straight-talking patriot, Musharraf.[*]
[*] Redux Kammandu ? :)
[/b]
If he hadn’t rigged the referendum, he would probably have won it handily anyway. But rig he did [*]and five more years he granted himself.

We all know how that turned out.
[*] Rigging, it seems to me, is in the DNA of all Paki rulers starting with ZAB and ending with Ganja Sharif ; in all cases, the incumbent, would have handily won the "contest", but could not resist the temptation to tinker with the results. :mrgreen:

Times were still tough, but Kayani was the steady hand. He gave us the Kayani moment. Remember that?

Nawaz had threatened to march on Islamabad. Asif had panicked. Rehman Malik wanted to shoot at the protesters if they crossed Pindi. Ifitkhar Chaudhry was enjoying the attention and the storm around him.

But Kayani kept his cool. No, he wasn’t going to take over — he was too good for that. Instead, he had a word with Asif and gave his word to Nawaz and Chaudhry.

Crisis averted. The general had shown the pols how politics was meant to be done.[*]
[*] But then , as later reports revealed, he was more into making money, milking Massa, and presenting a vitriol hatred of India :mrgreen: [/b]
Now, it’s King Raheel’s turn. The same arc is there. We don’t need to go over what all he has done. The spin brigade doesn’t tire of telling us.

So, let’s try something else — figuring out how Nawaz helped him become King Raheel. Not wittingly, for Nawaz would surely like to be king himself.[*]


[*] He is a "puppet king " if you like :mrgreen:
[/b]
And the boys were already miffed. Nawaz had vowed to put Musharraf on trial.[*] It was as personal as it was unnecessary. The man who had made him miss his father’s funeral and put him in handcuffs would have to pay.

So Nawaz chose — and he chose wrong. He ended up getting neither — neither a trade deal with India nor Musharraf’s scalp. Counterfactuals are difficult things, but imagine if Nawaz had put his foot down on the right thing.

But that’s history. The man who would have been king helped pave the path for the man who is king. It’s Raheel’s kingdom now.

So all hail the king — and try and forget that you’ve seen all of this before.
[*] He would not have chosen Raheel had he known in advance that Mushy has an "inside track" with the " Bad Sharif " :rotfl:[/b]
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Falijee »

Pakistan capable of eliminating terrorism: China


Pakistan capable of eliminating terrorism: China[*][/b]

[*] "Gentle reminder" to its client state that $ 46 Billion is at stake here

BEIJING (Web Desk) – The spokesperson of Chinese foreign office said Sunday that Pakistan has a capability to eliminate terrorism and has been taking steps in this direction.

The foreign office condemned the Friday’s deadly terrorist attack on Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Badaber base that left as many as 29 people dead.

In the statement China also appreciated the role of Pakistani armed forces in fight against terrorism. China supports every Pakistani step towards elimination militancy in the region, it added.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by SanjayC »

Brad Goodman wrote:Another desi enamored by paki hospitality
http://www.dawn.com/news/1208023/arrivi ... -his-visit
The guy is an idiot, drawing conclusions about the entire society from trivial personal encounters. With a smile of the immigration lady in black hijab, his perception "shatters." She twitches her nose and the idiot's second perception shatters. Thank god she did not fart, or I don't know what she would have shattered (perhaps his balls).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

http://tribune.com.pk/story/960227/twin ... u-35-jets/
Twin-engine fighter: Pakistan in talks with Russia to buy Su-35 jets
Pakistan and Russia are in the process of negotiating what analysts believe can be potentially the largest defence deal between the two countries, IHS Jane’s reported.

“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed buying Su-35 ‘Flanker-E’ fighter jets from Russia but a final decision is yet to be announced,” the IHS quoted a senior government official as saying.The senior government official’s remarks come in the wake of Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s and a recent agreement for provision of Mi-35M ‘Hind E’ attack helicopters to Pakistan.
If true, the planes will most definitely be used for carrying the bum. Unkil has probably bugged all the F16s (during their "upgrade"), Bandaar can probably fly only 10km before falling out of the sky. What remains with PAF is assortment of Old cheeni and french maal.

If Ru goes on with this sale, we should evaluate the entire spectrum of defense ties with them, including Armor and Navy. Let them have Paki monkey on their backs if they want.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

http://www.dawn.com/news/1208200/badabe ... identified
Five men suspected of involvement in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) camp attack in Peshawar's Badaber area on Friday have been identified.

At least 42 people, including 14 terrorists, were killed as the PAF camp at Inqalab road had come under attack by Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan militants early Friday
Two things
(a) Apparently they are all from Khyber agency and Swat. So all this "Take Doval to UN", "Indians attacking Pakistan" trending on twitter was all BS to begin with.
(b) The speed at which their finger prints were matched is impressive. Which means on or both of the following things: Pakis have registered and fingerprinted everyone in problem areas or Unkil has done it for the Pakis and keeps a database for itself.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by chaanakya »

http://www.d awn.com/news/1207890/an-insidious-agenda

The state may have put the guns in many non-state actors’ hands but now, it appears, when it wants at least some of them to hand them back there is resistance. This is troublesome when some of tougher varieties of these non-state actors have not even been asked yet. Who knows how organisations such as Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba will react if such a move was ever extended to them?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote: (b) The speed at which their finger prints were matched is impressive. Which means on or both of the following things: Pakis have registered and fingerprinted everyone in problem areas or Unkil has done it for the Pakis and keeps a database for itself.
Or.. its all a bluff. No matching was done. They simply released the statement that fingerprints matched because it sounds good and people will think Pakis are damn sophisticated
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

chaanakya wrote:http://www.d awn.com/news/1207890/an-insidious-agenda

The state may have put the guns in many non-state actors’ hands but now, it appears, when it wants at least some of them to hand them back there is resistance. This is troublesome when some of tougher varieties of these non-state actors have not even been asked yet. Who knows how organisations such as Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba will react if such a move was ever extended to them?
Once people have guns - they will not give them up. Period.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Anujan wrote:http://tribune.com.pk/story/960227/twin ... u-35-jets/
[
If Ru goes on with this sale, we should evaluate the entire spectrum of defense ties with them, including Armor and Navy. Let them have Paki monkey on their backs if they want.
Anujan has your account been hacked? You believe every news item coming out of shitistan? :eek:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

No I have reasons to believe that such hob-nobbing is happening. Obviously the Russies are going to evaluate Paki's ability to pay, such a deal might never happen. But this is not "Iran pipeline approved, will be built in 3 weeks pronto". It is also not signalling to Massa that if they dont give free F16s, Pakis will take Russian maal. (They would take Chinese maal). For some strange reason, Pakis are negotiating Arms deals with Russia.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

Anujan wrote:http://www.dawn.com/news/1208200/badabe ... identified
(b) The speed at which their finger prints were matched is impressive. Which means on or both of the following things: Pakis have registered and fingerprinted everyone in problem areas or Unkil has done it for the Pakis and keeps a database for itself.
I thought that the Pakistani national identity card (CNIC : https://www.nadra.gov.pk/index.php/products/cards/cnic ) requires fingerprints or at least thumb prints.

BTW:
https://www.nadra.gov.pk/docs/cnic_checklist.pdf (PDF) CNIC checklist - documents required for various changes, such as name change, age correction, etc.
Note: Change of religion from ISLAM to any other religion will not be entertained.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by deejay »

On the Russia - Pak renewed engagements here are two parts of an interview of the Russian ambassador to Pakistan. The videos were posted on 22nd / 23rd Aug and appears to be contemporary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRTr8IACOuE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1-I4loNth0
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

deejay wrote:On the Russia - Pak renewed engagements here are two parts of an interview of the Russian ambassador to Pakistan. The videos were posted on 22nd / 23rd Aug and appears to be contemporary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRTr8IACOuE
Hmm the Mi-35 is under discussion it appears
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by member_28921 »

Anujan wrote:http://tribune.com.pk/story/960227/twin ... u-35-jets/
Twin-engine fighter: Pakistan in talks with Russia to buy Su-35 jets
Pakistan and Russia are in the process of negotiating what analysts believe can be potentially the largest defence deal between the two countries, IHS Jane’s reported.

“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed buying Su-35 ‘Flanker-E’ fighter jets from Russia but a final decision is yet to be announced,” the IHS quoted a senior government official as saying.The senior government official’s remarks come in the wake of Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s and a recent agreement for provision of Mi-35M ‘Hind E’ attack helicopters to Pakistan.
If true, the planes will most definitely be used for carrying the bum. Unkil has probably bugged all the F16s (during their "upgrade"), Bandaar can probably fly only 10km before falling out of the sky. What remains with PAF is assortment of Old cheeni and french maal.

If Ru goes on with this sale, we should evaluate the entire spectrum of defense ties with them, including Armor and Navy. Let them have Paki monkey on their backs if they want.

I'll believe the El-Bakis when they put up the aid money coming from America to pay for the Russian jets - and when Russians actually deliver the jets.

India is way too important for Russia - its not just the defence business, but also energy. And let me also add that energy is a far bigger export for Russia compared to defence hardware (68% of 2013 exports)
1. Russia produces over 10 million barrels/day of oil - just a wee bit less than US and Saudi Arabia. Oil demand is slowing - hence the fall in prices, and India is one of the few large oil markets still growing. The US is importing less oil, while EU and Japan have actually managed to reduce their oil consumption in the past 10 years with improved efficiency and use of renewable energy. Chinese demand growth has slowed down. As someone who has tracked the energy sector for a long time, let me assure you - just as buyers like us need supply security, sellers such as Russia and Saudi need demand security. Which is why Russia has bought a stake in an oil refinery (and the 1,400 odd petrol pumps that come with it) in India - and has sold a stake in a major oil field to ONGC.
2. Russia has the world's largest reserves of natural gas - and this is also a major export. The biggest customer of Russia's gas is Western Europe - which will soon have the option to import natural gas from the US (shale gas) or Iran (second largest gas reserves, totally locked out of the market) as LNG. In case of gas, the seller is even more desperate - because gas is tough to store, and can't be easily shipped - unlike oil. Russia also needs buyers for its gas - and India again, is one of the few nations with large & growing needs.

China is the bigger customer of oil, sure. But the Chinese economy cannot grow at double digits forever - the recent market turmoil indicates it is slowing down. India would be amongst the bigger growth drivers of global demand in energy. Whatever else we can say about Putin/Russia, they are not idiots - they are not going to burn a relationship with a major customer of oil & gas and hardware to spite the US.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Viv S »

shiv wrote:Anujan has your account been hacked? You believe every news item coming out of shitistan? :eek:
To be fair, he did say 'if Rus goes ahead with this sale'.

The discussion between the two parties have also been reported by Russian sources -

Real Deal: Pakistan Confirms Interest in Russian Su-35 Fighters
Russia-Pakistan Military Cooperation Not Threatening Relations With India - Sputnik
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by deejay »

^^^ The comments on the second link end up discussing Indian MMRCA - duh!

Firstly, when I look West I am instantly filled with skepticism so pardon me...

I think Pakistanis are into axxageration. For them a certificate from Axxact = knowledge of the djinns. Sure they met the Russians and asked for a few Su 35's too. What the Russians are going to give is not clear but the Pakis will go to town hollering victory (in buying Su 35s). If their version of truth is to be bought - they won in '48, '65, '71 ... They also accuse us of sending terrorists across our borders and in their wonderland they eat donkey meat calling it mutton.

So what will this Su 35 cost to Pakistan?

I can visualize a scene where the intense Gen Sharif is buying Su 35's at the Red Square in Moscow, posing for the cameras and accepting the keys from President Putin with the Chinese standing behind with an account payee cheque from the bank of CPEC.

Isn't there a small matter of some kind of debt that Pakistan has to repay as discussed so often by Arun Ji and K Mehta ji in the Pakistan Economic Stress Watch thread?

Pakistan may alternatively try to fund their Su 35's with FICN.

IMVVHO, if one has to calculate the distance from Reality (truth) then first there are lies, then there is illusion and finally there is Pakistan.

Skeptically yours

P.S.: It is good excuse for IAF to start asking for increase in defence spending. Guess, to keep the Russians from supplying the Pakis Su 35s we will agree to all their terms on PAF FA. Duh!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Viv S »

wadi wrote:I'll believe the El-Bakis when they put up the aid money coming from America to pay for the Russian jets - and when Russians actually deliver the jets.

India is way too important for Russia - its not just the defence business, but also energy. And let me also add that energy is a far bigger export for Russia compared to defence hardware (68% of 2013 exports)
1. Russia produces over 10 million barrels/day of oil - just a wee bit less than US and Saudi Arabia. Oil demand is slowing - hence the fall in prices, and India is one of the few large oil markets still growing. The US is importing less oil, while EU and Japan have actually managed to reduce their oil consumption in the past 10 years with improved efficiency and use of renewable energy. Chinese demand growth has slowed down. As someone who has tracked the energy sector for a long time, let me assure you - just as buyers like us need supply security, sellers such as Russia and Saudi need demand security. Which is why Russia has bought a stake in an oil refinery (and the 1,400 odd petrol pumps that come with it) in India - and has sold a stake in a major oil field to ONGC.
2. Russia has the world's largest reserves of natural gas - and this is also a major export. The biggest customer of Russia's gas is Western Europe - which will soon have the option to import natural gas from the US (shale gas) or Iran (second largest gas reserves, totally locked out of the market) as LNG. In case of gas, the seller is even more desperate - because gas is tough to store, and can't be easily shipped - unlike oil. Russia also needs buyers for its gas - and India again, is one of the few nations with large & growing needs.
Unfortunately, the realities of geography stand in the way. India and Russia are 8250 km by sea (Vladivostok to Vishakapatnam), which is about 20 days sailing time.

1. Oil is bought and traded on the open market. Bilateral supply contracts are usually signed on a floating price basis. The Indian market has no direct affect on Russian oil exports. Our imports from Russia are negligible.

Image

2. Same issue with gas. We live right next to Iran, and Qatar & Saudi Arabia are only a little further. Its simply not economical to ship it in from Siberia, for which China, Japan, Korea and the ASEAN are far more accessible markets. Right now, 85% of our LNG is sourced from Qatar though they're trying to diversify sources (by hiking imports from Oman, Iran & Australia).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Viv S »

deejay wrote:^^^ The comments on the second link end up discussing Indian MMRCA - duh!

Firstly, when I look West I am instantly filled with skepticism so pardon me...
Sputnik is a Russian state owned media organisation. I didn't read the comments - I was referring the content of the article ("Moscow and Islamabad are currently in talks on the delivery of Russian multirole Mi-35M attack helicopters and the latest Su-35 fighter jets.")
Last edited by Viv S on 21 Sep 2015 01:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

So basically what confuses me is as follows: This is not a standard "If you dont give us money we will run to China's camp" empty threat from Al-Bakistan. They typically use China to pass such ultimatums at Massa. The following are the facts (in decreasing order of likelihood and reliability)

1. Pakis want a twin-engined, long range bomber for carrying their bum. The only thing they have is missiles, various ding-dong NoKo repurposed ones or various books/birds/swords which are green-painted Chinese maal. Delivering the bum through missiles means that the bum has to withstand the acceleration and re-entry, not sure if Pakis have tested that or how reliable that is. So they'd want twin engined planes as well. The fella who used to run their SPD gave an interview (he is crazy) but quite rational on the need to have different types of delivery vehicles, so you'd expect the Pakis to want planes

2. I thought they'd get something from China. One of those Choaquing shanaxi-QC 43 type things (which are red-painted maal stolen from Russia and Massa). Those are twin engined, some of them are stealth, they probably network well with the cheeni AWACS they bought. Remember this: China has excess manufacturing capacity, which employs a lot of people and they need to keep building stuff if they want some semblance of social stability (this is OT for this dhaaga). This is what underlies their huge infrastructure investments. So they'd have excess defence manufacturing capability as well and are probably looking desperately for export customers. Almost all of their neighbours hate them, europe wont buy china defence maal, Africa isnt rich enough to afford it, the only remaining place is Al-Bakistan and Middle east so the pressure to buy Chinese maal must be huge

3. I also thought they'd buy/rent a few European maal from Saudis, remember that Paki bum == Saudi bum. So it is logical that Pakis use saudi maal to test/practice etc.

4. This sale from Russia seems to have Russian backing. I am not sure why. Is Russia pissed we didnt choose their maal for MMRCA? Even without that, there are several collaborative projects: Navy and Armor: The orders for Ships and Tanks run into billions. There could be a future order for Subs, even a future order for Tanks (going by how Arjun is faring these days), APCs and even Rifles (going by how Insas is faring) Please dont discuss these here, there are other dhaagas for hair splitting about these. I am not sure why Russia would want to sell to Pakis who dont have money, its not a credible threat to India to get more orders. Selling Su-35 is a red rag to the bull, Desh pretty much rescued it (read that article about how and why the Sukhoi deal was signed by India. We single handedly saved the company and the plane)

5. All I can assume is that this is some sort of Quid-Pro-Quo hedging against a taliban filled future in Afghanistan. Rodina probably doesnt want taliban yahoos at their border. Probably wants to keep a lid on Chechen rebels. Probably sees that Massa can use such "non-state actors" to needle them in the future.

To summarize: The news about the discussions seem to be credible. I am not going by some abdul reporting for Yawn. The push for arms sales seem to be from both parties, Pakis and Russians. Which I find quite strange.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Karan M »

Anujan, with all due respect, this is all hogwash from the Pakistanis and some stupid shite from some Russians (if they are involved). Nothing will happen. Bet a beer. A good kick of common sense will happen to the Russians when they examine what they will put at risk if they do this.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by g.sarkar »

Anujan wrote: Two things
(a) Apparently they are all from Khyber agency and Swat. So all this "Take Doval to UN", "Indians attacking Pakistan" trending on twitter was all BS to begin with. (b) The speed at which their finger prints were matched is impressive. Which means on or both of the following things: Pakis have registered and fingerprinted everyone in problem areas or Unkil has done it for the Pakis and keeps a database for itself.
Pakistanis breed like vermin. And one beard looks and acts like another beard. Can registration and fingerprinting work at all?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by svinayak »

Anujan wrote:
4. This sale from Russia seems to have Russian backing. I am not sure why. Is Russia pissed we didnt choose their maal for MMRCA? Even without that, there are several collaborative projects: Navy and Armor: The orders for Ships and Tanks run into billions. There could be a future order for Subs, even a future order for Tanks (going by how Arjun is faring these days), APCs and even Rifles (going by how Insas is faring) Please dont discuss these here, there are other dhaagas for hair splitting about these. I am not sure why Russia would want to sell to Pakis who dont have money, its not a credible threat to India to get more orders. Selling Su-35 is a red rag to the bull, Desh pretty much rescued it (read that article about how and why the Sukhoi deal was signed by India. We single handedly saved the company and the plane)

To summarize: The news about the discussions seem to be credible. I am not going by some abdul reporting for Yawn. The push for arms sales seem to be from both parties, Pakis and Russians. Which I find quite strange.
Please check the geopolitics thread. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1903143

The global order is under change. Russia will be supporting China during a major crisis and to get China support they will support Pakistan. US will leave the support to Pakistan and shift based on the Pivot to Asia Policy.

US by keeping away from the reform of the UNSC txt US is paving the way for change. This change in UNSC will help in reducing the influence of China in Asia. Russia under sanction does not want change. Russia and China partnership is needed by each other to counter US dominance. But China has upper hand and is acting independently.

Mercantile power of the west will want India to increase its influence and UNSC is one of the ways to do it. It will balance the independent acting China in Asia. India has to keep working on UNSC even if it takes a long time since it diminishes the influence of China globally. China will falter and India will be able to secure the rightful place.

If they manage to create war between India and China when Russia is under sanction then India will be in a weak spot. Russia will support China. India will get international support including from US and other Asean nations

If India avoids a war with China then the west will seek help from Russia to contain PRC/China. A rogue China is danger to the mercantile western powers as well as Russia.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.eurasiareview.com/20092015-r ... -analysis/
Russia’s New Game Plan – Analysis
Interestingly, within days of Ryabkov’s statement, a prominent Russian political analyst Andrew Korybko provocatively detailed why Pakistan is gaining pivotal importance in the Russian geo-strategic calculus. The article, titled “Pakistan is the “Zipper” of Pan-Eurasian Integration”, appeared on 15 September on the website of the Russian government funded think-tank – Russian Institute for Strategic Studies (RISS) established by the President of the Russian Federation.
In Part I of his article, Korybko deals with the ‘zipper’ concept of how Pakistan can draw together four of Eurasia’s most prominent economic entities, and examines the key imperatives for Russia to build a strong Strategic Partnership with Pakistan. In Part II, he does crystal gazing on the most probable ways in which the US can attempt to offset everything or derail Pakistan’s future destiny of joining the Eurasian integration process.
Korbyko’s article begins by saying that contrary to popular myth about Pakistan as a “backward land of terrorism and poverty” that carries little actual weight, the West purposefully neglects the country’s rising geopolitical importance in Eurasia and its potential to connect the massive economies of the Eurasian Union, Iran, SAARC, and China to create an integrated pan-Eurasian economic zone.

The article then elaborates why Russia recognises Pakistan’s prime geopolitical potential and how it is manoeuvring to speed up the development of full-spectrum relations with this “South Asian gatekeeper.” It says that Russia’s overarching goal is to provide a “non-provocative balancing component to bolster Pakistan’s regional political position and assist with its peaceful integration into the multi-polar Eurasian framework being constructed by the Sino-Russian Strategic Partnership.”
The Korbyko article: http://en.riss.ru/analysis/18882/
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

https://www.ibcworldnews.com/2015/09/19 ... n-the-sky/
Russia’s offer to Pakistan could, therefore, be in the same category as the forever-on-hold S-300 sale to Iran. Moscow has attempted to squeeze diplomatic concessions from the US and Israel as payoff for withholding the air-defence system from Tehran.

Likewise, the Russia-Pakistan talks over the Su-35 could be a ploy to get India fully on board the PAK-FA stealth fighter programme. The Indian Air Force (IAF) was originally committed to buy 200 of these fifth generation fighters but has since cut back the planned buys to 127. Now India wants to buy these jets directly off the production line from Russia rather than jointly develop the aircraft.

Perhaps the Russians believe that Pakistan’s possession of the Su-35 could scare India to buy larger number of the PAK-FA. India may also be forced to purchase other advanced Russian weapons as sops for blocking the Sukhoi sale.
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Peregrine »

Viv S wrote:
wadi wrote:I'll believe the El-Bakis when they put up the aid money coming from America to pay for the Russian jets - and when Russians actually deliver the jets.

India is way too important for Russia - its not just the defence business, but also energy. And let me also add that energy is a far bigger export for Russia compared to defence hardware (68% of 2013 exports)
1. Russia produces over 10 million barrels/day of oil - just a wee bit less than US and Saudi Arabia. Oil demand is slowing - hence the fall in prices, and India is one of the few large oil markets still growing. The US is importing less oil, while EU and Japan have actually managed to reduce their oil consumption in the past 10 years with improved efficiency and use of renewable energy. Chinese demand growth has slowed down. As someone who has tracked the energy sector for a long time, let me assure you - just as buyers like us need supply security, sellers such as Russia and Saudi need demand security. Which is why Russia has bought a stake in an oil refinery (and the 1,400 odd petrol pumps that come with it) in India - and has sold a stake in a major oil field to ONGC.
2. Russia has the world's largest reserves of natural gas - and this is also a major export. The biggest customer of Russia's gas is Western Europe - which will soon have the option to import natural gas from the US (shale gas) or Iran (second largest gas reserves, totally locked out of the market) as LNG. In case of gas, the seller is even more desperate - because gas is tough to store, and can't be easily shipped - unlike oil. Russia also needs buyers for its gas - and India again, is one of the few nations with large & growing needs.
Unfortunately, the realities of geography stand in the way. India and Russia are 8250 km by sea (Vladivostok to Vishakapatnam), which is about 20 days sailing time.

1. Oil is bought and traded on the open market. Bilateral supply contracts are usually signed on a floating price basis. The Indian market has no direct affect on Russian oil exports. Our imports from Russia are negligible.

Image

2. Same issue with gas. We live right next to Iran, and Qatar & Saudi Arabia are only a little further. Its simply not economical to ship it in from Siberia, for which China, Japan, Korea and the ASEAN are far more accessible markets. Right now, 85% of our LNG is sourced from Qatar though they're trying to diversify sources (by hiking imports from Oman, Iran & Australia).
Viv S Ji :

Is it not possible for India to "SWAP" their Share of Russian Crude with the Japanese and South Korean Crude Importers of P. G. Crude.

Cheers Image
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ What are the Russians thinking? "Korbyko’s article begins by saying that contrary to popular myth about Pakistan as a “backward land of terrorism and poverty” that carries little actual weight, the West purposefully neglects the country’s rising geopolitical importance in Eurasia and its potential to connect the massive economies of the Eurasian Union, Iran, SAARC, and China to create an integrated pan-Eurasian economic zone." ???

What do they know that we don't know or are willfully ignoring?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by svinayak »

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ What are the Russians thinking? "Korbyko’s article begins by saying that contrary to popular myth about Pakistan as a “backward land of terrorism and poverty” that carries little actual weight, the West purposefully neglects the country’s rising geopolitical importance in Eurasia and its potential to connect the massive economies of the Eurasian Union, Iran, SAARC, and China to create an integrated pan-Eurasian economic zone." ???

What do they know that we don't know or are willfully ignoring?
Pakistan is a orphan state. It is expensive to maintain Pakistan State. But is has potential but the state and leadership does not want to cooperate with its neighbors. This puts lot of maintenance cost to its supporters.

This article confirms that even China has limited its support to Pakistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by schinnas »

In addition to Russian geo political calculations where it may see some value in using Pukistan as a leverage over Iran and India and ensuring that India firmly remains as a loyal buyer of its military industrial complex, I fully expect China to be the power that is pushing Russia into redefining its relationship with PAkistan.

India does not share border with former CIS states. China can promise to provide warm water port access to Russia via their captive port in Pukiland. It is possible to develop road and rail links all the way to Russia from Gawadar port. Cheen owns SU-30 but not SU-35. If Pukis get SU-35, Cheen will reverse engineer it and incorporate it into their next upcoming aircrafts.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Vayutuvan »

Brad Goodman wrote:Another desi enamored by paki hospitality
http://www.dawn.com/news/1208023/arrivi ... -his-visit
Market Research chap after retirement - 'nough said.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Prem »

Pakistan will present evidence from Badaber attack to Afghanistan: Rashidt :lol:
Let Afghanistan Get Voice samples
ISLAMABAD: Federal Information Minister Pervaiz Rashid on Sunday said Pakistan will provide evidence from Friday's Badaber PAF camp attack to the Afghan government, Radio Pakistan reported.The announcement comes two days after over a dozen armed men stormed a PAF camp in Peshawar, killing 29 people including a captain of the Pakistan Army and officials of the Pakistan Air Force.Chief of the army's media wing, Maj Gen Asim Bajwa, in a press conference after the attack had stopped short of saying the Afghan government was involved in the attack. But he did make clear that the terrorists behind the attack were in Afghanistan.However, the Afghan government rejected Bajwa's claims as baseless, read a statement issued by the office of the Afghan president.“Afghanistan, as a victim of terrorism, feels the agony and pain of terrorism, and commiserates in that spirit with the victims of yesterday’s attack in Peshawar,” read the statement released on Saturday by the office of Afghan President Ashraf Ghani.
The Afghan government reiterated its resolve that it has never, nor will it ever allow its territory to be used against other countries.Afghanistan and Pakistan accuse each other of doing too little to prevent Taliban fighters and other Islamist militants from operating on their territory.Afghanistan has accused Pakistan of not doing enough to arrest Afghan Taliban leaders who have been meeting to decide on a successor to Mohammad Omar. Islamabad insists any such meetings are held in Afghanistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Pakistan may be first buyer of China's J-10 fighter jets: expert

A military expert revealed on Tuesday that Pakistan may be the first buyer of China’s J-10 fighter jet which was initially set to be sold to Iran after the lifting of UN sanctions.

Fu Qianshao, an aviation equipment expert with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force, said that Pakistan may overtake Tehran in becoming the first overseas buyer of the multi-role aircraft, which Chinese experts claim is comparable to the latest version of the US’ F-16 Fighting Falcon.
Pakistan Looking To Buy China's J-31 Stealth Fighter


Imagine how poor China will be feeling :((
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

svinayak wrote: Pakistan is a orphan state. It is expensive to maintain Pakistan State. But is has potential
What potential? Pakistanis have been saying this for a long time but they have not explained the potential. Maybe you will.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Could some kind soul point me to one Russian news source saying they are in talks for Su-35 with Shitistan?

Recall that Chechen terror was born in Pakistan
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-birth-o ... -radicals/
In 2010 two female suicide bombers from Dagestan blew up the Moscow subway, killing over 40 people and injuring 100. In 2011, a suicide bomber attacked Moscow's Domodedovo airport, killing 37 and wounding 180. Umarov took responsibility.

Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev did not go home, but chose to stay in the U.S. to attack the venerable Boston marathon, an American institution.

Today, al Qaeda and other groups based in the tribal areas of Pakistan still inspire, shelter and train militants from Central Asia and the Caucus region.

© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by member_28921 »

Viv S wrote:
wadi wrote:I'll believe the El-Bakis when they put up the aid money coming from America to pay for the Russian jets - and when Russians actually deliver the jets.

India is way too important for Russia - its not just the defence business, but also energy. And let me also add that energy is a far bigger export for Russia compared to defence hardware (68% of 2013 exports)
1. Russia produces over 10 million barrels/day of oil - just a wee bit less than US and Saudi Arabia. Oil demand is slowing - hence the fall in prices, and India is one of the few large oil markets still growing. The US is importing less oil, while EU and Japan have actually managed to reduce their oil consumption in the past 10 years with improved efficiency and use of renewable energy. Chinese demand growth has slowed down. As someone who has tracked the energy sector for a long time, let me assure you - just as buyers like us need supply security, sellers such as Russia and Saudi need demand security. Which is why Russia has bought a stake in an oil refinery (and the 1,400 odd petrol pumps that come with it) in India - and has sold a stake in a major oil field to ONGC.
2. Russia has the world's largest reserves of natural gas - and this is also a major export. The biggest customer of Russia's gas is Western Europe - which will soon have the option to import natural gas from the US (shale gas) or Iran (second largest gas reserves, totally locked out of the market) as LNG. In case of gas, the seller is even more desperate - because gas is tough to store, and can't be easily shipped - unlike oil. Russia also needs buyers for its gas - and India again, is one of the few nations with large & growing needs.
Unfortunately, the realities of geography stand in the way. India and Russia are 8250 km by sea (Vladivostok to Vishakapatnam), which is about 20 days sailing time.

1. Oil is bought and traded on the open market. Bilateral supply contracts are usually signed on a floating price basis. The Indian market has no direct affect on Russian oil exports. Our imports from Russia are negligible.

Image

2. Same issue with gas. We live right next to Iran, and Qatar & Saudi Arabia are only a little further. Its simply not economical to ship it in from Siberia, for which China, Japan, Korea and the ASEAN are far more accessible markets. Right now, 85% of our LNG is sourced from Qatar though they're trying to diversify sources (by hiking imports from Oman, Iran & Australia).
Hi - I'm aware of that. Effectively, Russia right now has a zero presence (0.26 million tons out of 189 million tons of crude oil India imported last year) in the World's fourth largest, and the only large-growing market - at a time when Russia's traditional buyers may be looking elsewhere due to political reasons. Russians are trying to change that - the Rosneft-Essar and ONGC-Rosneft deals are an attempt to change this status quo. These are actual steps that Russian Government/Rosneft have taken to protect the Russian interest - the Bakis on the other hand, are making their usual claims. I'll go by where Russians are putting their money, rather than where Bakis are shooting off their mouth.

Also, oil from the Vankorneft field doesn't have to physically come to India - it will usually get swapped. I can explain in some detail the how/why and the logic - but I think this discussion is better suited to the energy forum. If mods so feel, they can move this discussion there - I'll be happy to continue. :-)
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Abhay_S »

Badaber attack details

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2 ... -of-attack

ISLAMABAD: Heads must roll as a media report has confirmed that the PAF Badaber management was unambiguously forewarned twice early this month that there are intelligence reports about the possible terrorist attack at the PAF airbase by a group of 13 terrorists.

The warning was issued by the Counter-Terrorism Department (CTD), Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, whose head when approached by The News said, “We would not like to comment on security related issues.”

The reporter, who filed the story published in an Urdu daily on Saturday, when approached by a senior staffer of The News disclosed that he was shown by his source the copy of the CTD report. It is said that initially a warning was issued on 3rd September, and later on 8th September a specific and detailed CTD warning was issued to the PAF Badaber management.

The report insisted that not only the PAF camp, attacked on Friday, was precisely forewarned about what the terrorists were planning but the CTD also shared the number of terrorists who were dispatched for this evil job.

According to the CTD report, the terrorist attack was planned jointly by proscribed terrorist organisations, including the TTP, Tehrik-e-Taliban Mohmand, and Laskhar-e-Islam.

The PAF Badaber management, besides certain other possible targets, was told to tighten their security in view of the intelligence reports.

However, despite the reported warnings, Friday witnessed a horrific terrorist attack on PAF base where not only the terrorists succeeded to enter the defence site but martyred at least 30 persons, mostly defence officials.

It appears to be the repetition of certain other serious cases of terrorism which hit Pakistan despite clear early warning by the intelligence agencies.

In 2013, the DI Khan jailbreak was a classic case as despite the specific and accurate intelligence warning, the terrorists had succeeded to achieve their nefarious target. Only a few days before the attack, a letter marked “secret” and “most immediate” by the country’s intelligence agency addressed to the commissioner, deputy commissioner, deputy inspector generals of police, district police officers and the superintendent of Dera Ismail Khan Central Jail, stated: “It has been reliably learnt that miscreants, namely Umar Khitab and his associates affiliated with Gandapur Group/ TTP, are planning to carry out a terrorist attack on the Central Jail, Dera Ismail Khan, on the pattern of the Bannu jailbreak in the near future.”

According to the information, miscreants were in possession of sketch/ map of the jail and had reached the vicinity of DI Khan for this purpose.

The warning was followed by another demarche to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa the following day, on July 28, from the National Crisis Management Cell, Ministry of Interior, Islamabad. The letter marked “secret” and “most immediate” “Threat Alert 699” said: “It has been learnt through reliable source that Umar Khitab along with TTP elements is planning to carry out a Bannu jailbreak-like attack on Dera Ismail Khan Central Prison and for this purpose, the group has reached the vicinity of Dera Ismail Khan.”

The letter dispatched to the KP home secretary, Peshawar, provincial police officer, additional chief secretary, Fata, inspector general of Frontier Corps, KP inspector general prisons and commandant Frontier Constabulary.

To reinforce the urgency of the matter, the officers were again warned through text messages to take appropriate security measures. As a consequence, civil and military officers visited the prison to work out a security plan.

On July 29, hours before the most audacious attack on the prison located in the middle of a populated area, the DI Khan commissioner held a conference of all law-enforcement agencies and the civil administration to discuss the issue.

The intelligence was not merely confined to information about the gathering of militants in DI Khan. The administration was warned that militants would launch a three-pronged attack from Sabzi Mandi, Girls Degree College and the Town Hall where they would park their 14 vehicles.

Despite all this, the attack took place and went on for three hours till 2:00am, with one hour inside the jail compound, and the attackers succeeded in freeing 248 prisoners including 30 hardcore militants.

According to the sources, similarly weeks before the Wagah Border attack, the authorities concerned were warned by the intelligence agencies but yet the terrorist attack could not be prevented. It is interesting to note that a Lahore-based newspaper had published the intelligence alert about the intelligence report of a possible attack at the Wagah border as a lead story but still the terrorists successfully struck.

There were also intelligence warnings timely issued in certain other cases like the Karachi Airport attack and GHQ attack. In October last year, warnings were even issued about terrorists planning to attack an army public school.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by deWalker »

SSridhar wrote: True. But, for a nation which conducted a genocide on its own land killing several million own citizens and sending ten million refugees to India, the above figures are no big deal.
...
Pakistan, OTOH, resorts to aerial strafing including fixed-wing, rotary a/c and now drones, usage of artillery, demolition of entire villages due to scorched-earth policy etc.
You're absolutely right that there is NO moral equivalency in the efforts of the Indian army in Kahsmir, where it was fighting with one hand tied behind its back to avoid civilian casualties, and the PakFauj willy nilly bombing it's own people and territory from 35,000 ft. or razing entire towns in collective punishment. And I don't mean to bring any such equivalency into play. After all, the only wars that The Paki army has own is against its own people - Balochistan, Swat, Karachi, etc.

Yet, the net result of their two approaches: injecting jihad into India, and a cowardly camign to bomb and raze their own land, the facts are that they have lost much more of their own - soldiers, jihadis, civilians - than the comparable damage to India and Indians. Including the jihadis with Pak afaik, the numbers are like 2:1 in their disfavor. And that is the numerical proof to the comment Shiv had made about " if you're raising snakes to bite your neighbors, don't be surprised when they bite you" (paraphrasing)

Diwakar
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