Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Locked
tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3263
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions-May 2017

Post by tsarkar »

Rakesh wrote:
tsarkar wrote:Even Klub missiles had failures that were traced to incorrect coordinates fed to missile INS by submarine fire control.
Saar, can you please elaborate on why the Klub missile was a failure, if the incorrect coordinates were fed into it. I read, a while back, that the IN had issues with the Klub missile.
The issue was traced to sub Fire Control feeding incorrect INS data to the missile. The missiles were fine and worked flawlessly after the issue was traced and rectified.

Re: Singha - All 877 submarines have land attack Klub while Talwar & Shivalik use Anti Ship Klub. BrahMos is better because of terminal manoeuvre capability
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20834
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Karan M »

These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20834
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Karan M »

I hope the LRSAM/MRSAM motor is made by BDL.

Unlike that of Akash
Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors?
Is it ofb ?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20834
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Karan M »

yes booster & sustainer both come from them.

and the complaints mentioned, that x missiles did not take off, or had range issues or velocity drops clearly point to motor issues.

drdo needs an alternate supply
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20834
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Karan M »

And DRDO has moved over to a private partner for supplying motor grains.
http://www.pelgel.com/images/PEL-Aug16- ... tation.pdf

I still believe the complete motor integration should be moved out to such a partner or BDL.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20834
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Karan M »

The CAG report notes 6 of 20 rounds failed till Nov 2014 @ IAF service.

Thereafter, we had several test fires conducted by the IAF with subsequent production batches.
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/indian-armed-f ... als-664851
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/I ... 024701.ece

These were post induction (2015) user trials. Subsequently, two things happened - IAF asked for 7 more Akash squadrons and production at BDL was enhanced.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/15613/ ... X0Q2VFLfIU

QA from first time suppliers - pvt and public would have been a challenge but it seems to have moved ahead significantly in the past couple of years.
shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1388
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by shaun »

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.
when was this CAG report tabled ???
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by arun »

arun wrote:^^^ Disappointing news that the NOTAM has been cancelled indicating the test stands postponed.

Time for GOI to contract Kim Jong Un to give some “Field Guidance” to DRDO and repeat the rapidity with which the Pukguksong project has moved along :?:
With the Hwasong 14 ICBM being sucessfully tested for the second time (DPRK announces 2nd successful test of Hwasong 14 missile), seems an appropriate time to revist the suggestion made on page 3 of this thread that maybe it is time for GOI to contract Kim Jong Un to give some “Field Guidance” to DRDO and repeat the rapidity with which the Pukguksong and Hwasong 14 projects have moved along .
nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4712
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by nam »

Karan M wrote:And DRDO has moved over to a private partner for supplying motor grains.
http://www.pelgel.com/images/PEL-Aug16- ... tation.pdf

I still believe the complete motor integration should be moved out to such a partner or BDL.
while reading some stuff on google, I found a private company which makes casing for artillery shell for MoD.I assumed this goes to OFB, which just do the filling and dump it on IA.

I wondered if there is a private company which is allowed to produce explosives. Maybe maybe.. this company is completing the piece of the puzzle. May be there is alternate source for ammo like artillery production.

GoI is indirectly pushing OFB to the background by allowing DRDO to pick production partners. And ATAGS is a perfect template, where OFB is allowed only in barrel production, with Bharat Forge being a secondary source.
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1596
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Gyan »

Did someone notice reference to NGRAM motor and CL-20 in the link posted by Karan?
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Gyan wrote:Did someone notice reference to NGRAM motor and CL-20 in the link posted by Karan?

Good catch. They make 10K kg of CL -20 in the pilot plant.

I think these will be used for shells for those 52 caliber guns and other sensitive uses.

One missing technology is High voltage detonators (HVD).
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19602
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Missile systems deployment pending for five years
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 810928.cms
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19602
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Missile production orders will rise four times by 2020
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 791966.cms
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Folks what's the status of Nag missile production?
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions-May 2017

Post by Kersi »

geeth wrote:^^^ Same with Seacat missiles...or even worse. When, after firing, when the missile was not able to find/track its target, I believe it had a tendency to home on to the mothership!
The Tigercat, land based version of Seacat is considered as bigger flop. IAF used it for airfield defence but I have never heard any news about them at all. Probably we paid and we stored them properly so they do not get damaged
jayasimha
BRFite
Posts: 400
Joined: 09 Feb 2011 17:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by jayasimha »

NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1596
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Gyan »

Nag missule is accused of being heavy but we are making massive purchase of Hellfire which is 50% more heavier.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Pratyush »

Hellfire is for Apache. If Helina can be added to Apache nothing like it.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

jayasimha wrote:NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf
What do they want ?

Sorry on phone.
Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Marten »

ramana wrote:
jayasimha wrote:NOTICE INVITING EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a unit of Ordnance Factory Board, Govt. of
India, Ministry of Defence, is engaged in manufacturing of different Ammunition hardware
pertaining to Indian Army and Navy.

https://ofbeproc.gov.in/scripts/itt_pq/ ... 0items.pdf
What do they want ?
1. 81mm Bomb Body HE 100000 Nos
2. 155mm BB Adaptor 6000 Nos.
A/S.RGB60
3. HEAD ROCKET BODY (PRE-M/c) *300 Nos.
4. LINER FOR RGB 600 Nos.
5. DIAPHRAGM(NOZZLE PLATE) 600 Nos.
6. DIAPHRAGM FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
7. BUSBAR FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
8. HOLDER FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
9. TEXTOLITE SEALING RING 600 Nos.
10. GASKET FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
11. SPRING FOR RGB 60 1800 Nos.
12. SPRING FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
13. ASSY CONTACT FOR RGB-60 1800 Nos.
14. ASSY CENTRE CONTACT FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
15. PLUG FOR RGB-60 600 Nos.
16. CHAMBER AFT Motor 200 Nos.
17. ASSEMBLY FINFOR A/S ROCKET RGB-60 (TAIL UNIT) 200 Nos.
18. CHAMBER FORE MOTOR 200 Nos.
19. HEAD ROCKET ASSEMBLY 200 Nos.
120mm FSAPDS:
20. PLASTIC CONTAINER FOR 120MM FSAPDS 5000 Nos.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Most of the stuff looks like for the underwater or A/S rocket RGB-60.

And they want 81 mm mortar bodies.
Looks like they are now into these.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Kersi »

What is RGB-60 ? Indian RBU rockets ?

i guess 81 mm must be for mortar
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Pratyush »

In the above tender specifications in serial no 2 what is being sought exactly. Is it the ability to produce 6000 155 mm shell per day.
Mihir
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 884
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 21:26

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Mihir »

Karan M wrote:These tests are of the initial batches circa 2014.

Guess who makes the Akash motors? Then you can figure out the rest and questions about velocity, this, that in production models when tests webt ok

BEL and BDL are the integrators for the missile.
The report also notes that the IAF didn't store those missiles properly. They require air conditioned facilities, with indoor conditions maintained at 23 +/- 2 degrees C and 55 +/- 5% relative humidity. Instead, they were stored in unconditioned warehouses, and moisture crept in.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Pratyush wrote:In the above tender specifications in serial no 2 what is being sought exactly. Is it the ability to produce 6000 155 mm shell per day.
Where did you get the per day?
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Pratyush »

Asking as am unable to understand what that means.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60012
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

OK. I finally read the tender. HAPP is now second source for those types of ammo.
They want 6000 Base Bleed adapters for 155 mm shell. They probably make more but these are the requirements.

Odd thing is the BB unit has a HAPP drawing.

Wonder is HAPP innards are being put in some of those shells for bunker busting?
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19602
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Here is all you need to know about the much awaited Agni-VI ICBM
http://www.defencenewsindia.com/here-is ... i-vi-icbm/
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19602
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Rakesh »

Is this is how India’s “Desi Meteor” SFDR BVRAAM is gonna look like?
http://idrw.org/is-this-is-how-indias-d ... look-like/
saje
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 08 Oct 2010 16:28
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by saje »

Image

How can you avoid falling in love with this missile? Absolute beauty! Seems like a slimmer version of the Akash missile. I think the project for adapting the Brahmos missile to aircraft has given designers the confidence to go around miniaturising existing missiles. Hopefully this missile, once successful in the air-to-air mode will also become a replacement for bulkier '80s looking' Akash missile.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Philip »

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017080710 ... e-systems/
Xcpt:
Iron Fist' at Pokhran, IndiaIndia to Deploy Two Ballistic Missile Defense Systems Near Pakistan Border
ASIA & PACIFIC
15:13 07.08.2017
The ballistic missile defense grid that will protect the western and northern regions of the country will help guard New Delhi and Mumbai.
An Agni IV missile capable of carrying nuclear warhead and a range of 2,500-3,500 kilometers is displayed during the main Republic Day parade in New Delhi, India, Thursday, Jan. 26, 2012

Once Aimed at Pakistan, Indian Nuclear Program Sets Missile Sights on China
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has decided to install its homemade ballistic missile defense systems at two villages in the western state of Rajasthan. The villages in Alwar and Pali are both less than 800 kilometers from the Pakistani capital Islamabad.
The counter attack missiles will be able to provide double layered security with the capacity to shoot down enemy missiles both within the earth's atmosphere (endo-atmospheric) and outside it (exo-atmospheric). State owned Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) had conceived the programme in 1999 and since then, the programme has witnessed many trials and upgrades.

The ready version consists of long-range tracking radar developed in partnership with Israeli company Elta. The second component is a computerized command and control system that plots and predicts the intruding missile's flight path and assigns interceptor missiles to destroy it. The third component is the interceptor missiles and includes the endo-atmospheric missile can intercept incoming targets at an altitude of 15 to 25 kilometers and the exo-atmospheric missile can kill an incoming ballistic missile within the range of 2000km. DRDO has claimed that the strike range of the exo-atmospheric missile is being upgraded to 5000 km.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Austin »

Rakesh wrote:Is this is how India’s “Desi Meteor” SFDR BVRAAM is gonna look like?
http://idrw.org/is-this-is-how-indias-d ... look-like/
Is there any JV along the lines of Brahmos for Meteor class of BVRAAM with Russia ? Looks like that might be the case.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8426
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Indranil »

No, this is not. I had reported the tender for this long time back. IDRW made it their exclusive.

Anyhow, the airframe is based out of Astra. The SFDR motor is in-house development (has been on for almost a decade now, if not more). It is not borrowed from Brahmos, or Akash. I did see a LFRJ engine with the same diameter of Akash, and the four air inlets. However, I don't know the end use of such a system. It could be to understand the motor first.
Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2579
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

Wont these anti-ballistic missile needs to be at the target to protect it? If missile is going to land at Delhi how would you protect it from Alwar?
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by shiv »

Katare wrote:Wont these anti-ballistic missile needs to be at the target to protect it? If missile is going to land at Delhi how would you protect it from Alwar?
Why? The ABM need not be based in Delhi to hit a missile going towards Delhi.
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by brar_w »

A ballistic missile interceptor needs to reach an intercept-point at a given time to execute the mission. It need not matter where the missile is launched from as long as you can generate the PIP early enough, and can correct for any errors through update (of course physically reach the point which depends upon the trajectory and velocity of the incoming warhead and the interceptor envelope). Of course the larger this envelope the most design cost there is on the interceptor and the associated targeting system.
Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2579
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

For 25 km altitude how far can you put it from where the missile is going to land? I thought all SAM provide a bubble of protection zone around target. So best place for the SAM is right at the target so it should be same for the anti-ballistic missiles. I can't understand how it would work from interceptor range POV? Interception point would depend on the range and altitude capability of the interceptor. We know the altitude is 25 km (0r 100km) not sure of the range but assuming very high speed and short reaction time avilable it can't be more than 2 to 3x of the altitude? What am i missing
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ldev »

I think only the Radar sites are in those villages giving very early launch warning which will enable course, height and target prediction early on. This will give the interceptors located near Delhi and Mumbai lots of time to work out intercept vectors. Probably aided by radar sites near the cities as well.

Eventually if India is able to customize and integrate the Russian long range S400 system interceptors, which are being negotiated? and base them near the Pakistan border, it will provide India a triple layer defence i.e. boost phase and two terminal phase layers.

Added later: Sorry, checked the map, Alwar is about 100-120 kms south of the NCR and the site is designed to detect Pakistani missiles launched towards Northern India, especially Delhi. Pali also in Rajasthan is located such that it can detect all launches made from Central and Southern Pakistan and heading towards Mumbai and other places further south. So at this point in time it will be a 2 layer terminal phase interception i.e. exo and endo atmospheric which is what DRDO has been testing all these years. The location of these two sites indicates that the radars are capable of looking deep into Pakistan for missile launches, probably with maximum ranges of 600-800 kms, maybe more.
JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4567
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by JayS »

Indranil wrote:No, this is not. I had reported the tender for this long time back. IDRW made it their exclusive.

Anyhow, the airframe is based out of Astra. The SFDR motor is in-house development (has been on for almost a decade now, if not more). It is not borrowed from Brahmos, or Akash. I did see a LFRJ engine with the same diameter of Akash, and the four air inlets. However, I don't know the end use of such a system. It could be to understand the motor first.
What Fuel Akash uses exactly..? I couldn't find out quickly on Google. Its said to have Integrated Ram Rocket motor.

Once we master Ducted rocket system we can produce very long range (~300km) A2A and A2G missiles of all sorts easily. Key thing would be start-stop-start control.
Locked