China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Sep 2013 14:44

Turkey over the last few years has been trying to steer an independent of west foreign policy. Putting an emphasis on its own independence, and religious and cultural affinity with the middle east and central Asian region.

That being the case, the purchase of the PRC weapon system by Turkey is just another one of the actions, which sets it free of the west. Which has the added advantage of telling the west, that if our ambitions are not recognized we will leave you all together.

Leo.Davidson · Post by **Leo.Davidson** » 30 Sep 2013 20:59

Turkey has ambitions to lead the muslim world. They have been playing the NATO card to get as many concessions from the Europeans as possible. They've leading military industrialization, better than China (implies non plagiaristic), South America, etc (INDIA is dismally far behind) and trying to selling high tech stuff to third world countries.
World watch out for Xerces IIIrd.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 30 Sep 2013 21:36

^^^ Give me a list of 10 high tech items which Turkey has but India doesn't. Remember the items must be totally indigenous i.e. designed,developed and mass produced with no outside help from any Western/European country.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 30 Sep 2013 21:58

Turkey has nothing that has not been given to them by Europe or USA. USA has stopped doling out the goodies and refused them SM-2 or any relevant tech transfer. They have been trying to acquire things via tech transfer but nothing substantial has come there way. As seen US will not give them tech for SM-2 or Europe for Aster-30. They went with chine HQ-9 because it is obsolete in terms of tech and chinese don't mind giving them this outdated tech. Same reason they went for magnusta, italians offered more tech transfer while US and russia refused.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Sep 2013 22:05

Leo.Davidson wrote:Turkey has ambitions to lead the muslim world. They have been playing the NATO card to get as many concessions from the Europeans as possible. They've leading military industrialization, better than China (implies non plagiaristic), South America, etc (INDIA is dismally far behind) and trying to selling high tech stuff to third world countries.
World watch out for Xerces IIIrd.

I'd sure like what you are smoking. Turkey is so behind India in several areas of military industrialization, that its not even funny. Ballistic Missiles, Radars, Naval systems, Integrated system of systems...churning out a few fancy looking copies of european military gear with heavy hand holding does not confer long term superiority..yes, they have some good successes in some minor armaments and have launched some ambitious programs. But their overall systems remain far behind those of India. Getting TOT and calling it JVs etc might result in glitzy looking gear, but is it really self owned?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 30 Sep 2013 22:24

This was missed perhaps ...

China criticises Japan's X-band radar system plan

China has criticized a Japanese plan to install a cutting-edge U.S. missile defense radar system. China's Foreign Ministry says it could harm regional stability and upset the strategic balance.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said, "Some countries or blocs in the region, under the pretext of a DPRK nuclear threat, have unilaterally set up anti-missile systems or are conducting bloc cooperation.

"This is not conducive to nuclear non-proliferation and stability in the region, and will have an extremely negative impact on the global strategic balance."

The governor of Kyoto endorsed the radar plan last week. The X-band radar system would based in the Kyoto region, and would boost Japan’s ability to track and intercept missiles from across the Sea of Japan.

In February, Japan and the U.S. government announced plans to deploy the radar system within the year.

The X-band radar system has a range of up to 4,000 kilometers. It can trace launched missiles and lock the route so that the missiles can be intercepted.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Sep 2013 23:09

They are launching a plan to develop anti-stealth radars too, a decade long one for TD. Given their capabilities in electronics, they could have been an export powerhouse if not for their pacifist policy.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 30 Sep 2013 23:11

^^^ Was that (pacifist policy) imposed on them after WW-2 ???

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Oct 2013 00:05

Its a self imposed restriction. There is no Japanese law per se that bans them from exports, only a policy that they follow that they won't export. On a deeper note, well what happened in WW2 did turn their policies into pacifism and put the US as their de facto security guarantee. How long will that continue is anybody's guess..with China's aggressive rise.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 Oct 2013 03:30

From ChinaTimes: India could take out Qinghai-Tibet Railway to cripple PLA

The Qinghai-Tibet Railway — which runs between Xining in western China's Qinghai province and Lhasa in Tibet — could become a potential target for the Su-33MKI fighters of the Indian Air Force if a territorial dispute between China and India escalates into a full-scale war, according to the Kanwa Defense Review operated by Pinkov also known as Andrei Chang, a Canada-based journalist specializing in military issues.

Earlier this year, Beijing and New Delhi agreed to withdraw their respective forces from the disputed area of Daulat Beg Oldie in the Ladakh border region between the two countries. However, tensions remain as an official border was never drawn following a conflict in 1962.

Even though China's military is more powerful than India's, the People's Liberation Army has several weaknesses near the contested border, the report said. China only has two main air force bases in the region — Gongga and Shigatse — and since they are very close to each other, the Indian Air Force could easily neutralize the Chinese fleet there in a short period of time. As for the other four air force bases in Tibet, none of them are able to accommodate advanced PLA fighters.

According to the Kanwa Defense Review, China's second weakness is that the PLA units in Tibet rely too much on the Qinghai-Tibet Railway for supplies. Once the railway is cut off, it would be extremely difficult for the PLA to find a new supply line. There are 260 bridges and two tunnels within Tibet and India's Mirage 2000 and Su-33MKI fighters would able to attack most of them with precision guided munitions.

The only advantage China has in a potential air war with India is that it could launch a missile attack against the Indian Air Force bases in Assam, the report said, adding that New Delhi is also inside the range of China's DF-15 ballistic missiles, which are operated by the Second Artillery Corps, the PLA's strategic missile force in the area.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Oct 2013 04:23

China has criticized a Japanese plan to install a cutting-edge U.S. missile defense radar system. China's Foreign Ministry says it could harm regional stability and upset the strategic balance.

In the whole world only three countries use this madarsa logic; USA, China and Pakistan.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 02 Oct 2013 04:43

mody wrote:Another confirmation of the above news. The news says chinese FD-2000 missiles system.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-sanctio ... 19996.html

How exactly will Chinese system integrate IFF as it owned and run by NATO? Idiots!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Oct 2013 05:17

Lisa wrote:
mody wrote:Another confirmation of the above news. The news says chinese FD-2000 missiles system.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-sanctio ... 19996.html
How exactly will Chinese system integrate IFF as it owned and run by NATO? Idiots!

Errrrr. By the usual method ....................... hacking. How else?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 Oct 2013 07:23

From Fox News: Chinese junk? Latest fighter plane from People's Army ticketed for export

A new fighter plane built by China is drawing more snickers than raves from aviation experts, and the People's Army is now saying the jet was really ticketed for export all along.

The J-31 "Falcon Hawk," likely designed by reverse-engineering a downed U.S. stealth fighter, was supposed “to become China’s next generation of carrier-based aircraft” and take its place next to the U.S.-made F-35 Lightning II as the gold standard in air force weaponry, according to a report last month in People’s Daily. But now it looks like China, which has exactly one aircraft carrier, has scaled back the hype and will peddle the aircraft to second-tier air forces like Brazil, Pakistan and some Middle East countries.

“It’s probably likely that the technology was not originally created for export but built for their own use and it did not work out too well,” Stephen Biddle, a political science professor at George Washington University and senior defense policy fellow at the Council for Foreign Relations told FoxNews.com.

“It’s probably likely that the technology was not originally created for export but built for their own use and it did not work out too well.”

Even the Chinese press has been critical of the jet, with Bejing-based Sina Military Network calling the J-15 a “flopping fish,” and claiming that the plane could not take off from a carrier with heavy ammunitions which could cripple its attack range as well as firepower.

Aviation experts say that based on the limited information publicly available of the J-31, it appears to be little more than a cheap copy of an American fighter jet.

"The J-31 is sort of a copy of the F-22, the most advanced (and troubled), U.S. multi-role fighter jet," David Cenciotti, a former pilot for the Italian Air Force who blogs at theaviationist.com, told FoxNews.com. "Same nose section, same twin tails and trapezoidal wings along with the distinctive lines of the stealth design."

But Cenciotti said the aircraft doesn’t appear to have thrust vectoring capabilities that give fighter planes superior maneuverability. He suspects it was based on American warplanes, and not just the F-117 stealth jet downed in 1999 by a Serbian anti-aircraft missile.

"Considering all the cyber attacks targeting Lockheed Martin stealth projects in the last years, one could believe Chinese hackers were able to put their hands on some useful technical drawings of the Raptor or F-35," he said.

No amount of espionage or copying of U.S. technology can duplicate American air power, according to Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Il.) an Air Force veteran who still serves as a pilot in the Air National Guard.

“America has always produced and flown the top aviation machines in the world," Kinzinger told FoxNews.com. "While China’s claims about the capabilities of the J-31 have raised some eyebrows, consider me a skeptic until I see the proof.”

James Hardy, Asia-Pacific Editor of Jane’s Defence Weekly, said there is no way to compare the J-31 to other fighter planes, given the secrecy still surrounding it.

“Because we have only limited data on the J-31, it impossible to say whether it is inferior to the F-35,” Hardy said. "Qualitatively there's no way to compare unless we know its fire-control radar, subsystems, avionics, and what it is made of. Its planform [silhouette] certainly makes it look like a fifth generation fighter, but what materials it is made of and all kinds of other questions mean judging its radar cross section - and so its stealthiness - is hard to do.”

Hardy adds that lack of strong information about the fighter --and the fact that it is going straight to export--might make it a hard sell on the international market.

“One key point is that if the People's Liberation Army air forces aren’t going to field it, that might deter other countries," he said. "The thinking may go: if it's not good enough for China, why should we buy it?”

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 02 Oct 2013 07:33

Leo.Davidson wrote:World watch out for Xerces IIIrd.

If you meant Xerxes, he is an Iranian (more accurately Persian Zoroastrian) king, not Turkish. Many Xerxes's in Mumbai.

Turkey has been smarting over not being admitted into EU while Europe only welcomes Turks as temporary manual labor. Major blow to H&D and they are itching to spite the west even while depending on them almost 100%. Typical pakiness and this is one example. They already use paki-made trainer aircraft. Tech wise, their Shia opponents Iran are far ahead of them and both are nowhere near India. They have next to nothing in space tech for example.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Oct 2013 10:50

VinodTK wrote:From Fox News: Chinese junk? Latest fighter plane from People's Army ticketed for export

A new fighter plane built by China is drawing more snickers than raves from aviation experts, and the People's Army is now saying the jet was really ticketed for export all along.

The J-31 "Falcon Hawk," likely designed by reverse-engineering a downed U.S. stealth fighter, was supposed “to become China’s next generation of carrier-based aircraft” and take its place next to the U.S.-made F-35 Lightning II as the gold standard in air force weaponry, according to a report last month in People’s Daily. But now it looks like China, which has exactly one aircraft carrier, has scaled back the hype and will peddle the aircraft to second-tier air forces like Brazil, Pakistan and some Middle East countries.

“It’s probably likely that the technology was not originally created for export but built for their own use and it did not work out too well,” Stephen Biddle, a political science professor at George Washington University and senior defense policy fellow at the Council for Foreign Relations told FoxNews.com.

“It’s probably likely that the technology was not originally created for export but built for their own use and it did not work out too well.”

Even the Chinese press has been critical of the jet, with Bejing-based Sina Military Network calling the J-15 a “flopping fish,” and claiming that the plane could not take off from a carrier with heavy ammunitions which could cripple its attack range as well as firepower.

Aviation experts say that based on the limited information publicly available of the J-31, it appears to be little more than a cheap copy of an American fighter jet.

"The J-31 is sort of a copy of the F-22, the most advanced (and troubled), U.S. multi-role fighter jet," David Cenciotti, a former pilot for the Italian Air Force who blogs at theaviationist.com, told FoxNews.com. "Same nose section, same twin tails and trapezoidal wings along with the distinctive lines of the stealth design."

But Cenciotti said the aircraft doesn’t appear to have thrust vectoring capabilities that give fighter planes superior maneuverability. He suspects it was based on American warplanes, and not just the F-117 stealth jet downed in 1999 by a Serbian anti-aircraft missile.

"Considering all the cyber attacks targeting Lockheed Martin stealth projects in the last years, one could believe Chinese hackers were able to put their hands on some useful technical drawings of the Raptor or F-35," he said.

No amount of espionage or copying of U.S. technology can duplicate American air power, according to Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Il.) an Air Force veteran who still serves as a pilot in the Air National Guard.

“America has always produced and flown the top aviation machines in the world," Kinzinger told FoxNews.com. "While China’s claims about the capabilities of the J-31 have raised some eyebrows, consider me a skeptic until I see the proof.”

James Hardy, Asia-Pacific Editor of Jane’s Defence Weekly, said there is no way to compare the J-31 to other fighter planes, given the secrecy still surrounding it.

“Because we have only limited data on the J-31, it impossible to say whether it is inferior to the F-35,” Hardy said. "Qualitatively there's no way to compare unless we know its fire-control radar, subsystems, avionics, and what it is made of. Its planform [silhouette] certainly makes it look like a fifth generation fighter, but what materials it is made of and all kinds of other questions mean judging its radar cross section - and so its stealthiness - is hard to do.”

Hardy adds that lack of strong information about the fighter --and the fact that it is going straight to export--might make it a hard sell on the international market.

“One key point is that if the People's Liberation Army air forces aren’t going to field it, that might deter other countries," he said. "The thinking may go: if it's not good enough for China, why should we buy it?”

Now that's an interesting bit of noos.

Really, you can copy data, but actually applying the tech in all its myriad forms takes persistence and failure after failure. Actually, it's not failure if you gain understanding and don't quit. reference F-35 program.

kit · Post by **kit** » 02 Oct 2013 11:01

Turkish aircraft industry is pretty advanced though.They have plans for their own next gen fighter (TFX) .They do make components and some sub assemblies for the F35.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 02 Oct 2013 12:37

RamaY wrote:
China has criticized a Japanese plan to install a cutting-edge U.S. missile defense radar system. China's Foreign Ministry says it could harm regional stability and upset the strategic balance.
In the whole world only three countries use this madarsa logic; USA, China and Pakistan.

That is exclusive copyright of Joo Ess onlee, pukis being Joo Ess's r*ndi borrow it from their master and Han munnas are doing a Joo Ess on Joo Ess.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 02 Oct 2013 12:41

kit wrote:Turkish aircraft industry is pretty advanced though.They have plans for their own next gen fighter (TFX) .They do make components and some sub assemblies for the F35.

Everyday one learns something new, today I learned :

Plans for next gen aircraft, making components and sub assemblies for F-35 == highly advanced aircraft industry.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Oct 2013 19:35

Turkey is making the airframe nose and cockpit section for the F-35.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 02 Oct 2013 19:46

Duplicate Post !! Self Deleted.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 02 Oct 2013 19:56

Sagar G wrote:Turkish aircraft industry is pretty advanced though.They have plans for their own next gen fighter (TFX) .They do make components and some sub assemblies for the F35.

Everyday one learns something new, today I learned :

Plans for next gen aircraft, making components and sub assemblies for F-35 == highly advanced aircraft industry.

F35_Procurement

10_Turkish_Companies_F35

In total, F-35 industrial opportunities for Turkish companies are expected to reach $12 billion.

The 10 Turkish companies supporting the development production of F-35 include:

•Alp Aviation has been supporting the program since 2004 and currently manufactures F-35 production airframe structure and assemblies, production landing gear components and production F135 engine titanium integrated blade rotors for the engine.

•Aselsan is developing manufacturing approaches for advanced optical components, which are part of the F-35 Electro Optical Targeting System. They are also working with Northrup Grumman on the F-35 CNI Avionic Interface Controller and will initiate full scale production activities in the near term.

•Ayesas currently is the sole source supplier for two major F-35 components – missile remote interface unit and the panoramic cockpit display.

•Fokker Elmo manufactures 40 percent of the F-35 Electrical Wiring & Interconnection System (EWIS) and will also deliver and support TAI with all center section wiring systems. Fokker Elmo will also develop the EWIS for the engine, for which a major share is produced in Fokker Elmo Turkey in Izmir.

•Havelsan has been supporting the F-35 training systems since 2005. Additionally, Havelsan has been instrumental as the Turkish lead for developing the construct of the future Turkish F-35 Integrated Pilot and Maintenance Training Center (ITC) and associated training systems in Turkey.

•Kale Aerospace has been supporting the F-35 since 2005. In conjunction with Turkish Aerospace Industries, they manufacture and produce F-35 airframe structures and assemblies. Kale Aero also supports Heroux Devtek as the sole source supplier for all three variants landing gear lock assemblies. Additionally, Kale Aerospace has also established a joint venture in Izmir with Pratt & Whitney to manufacture production hardware for the engine.

•MiKES has been supporting the F-35 Program since 2004 and MiKES has delivered F-35 aircraft components and assemblies for BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman.

•ROKETSAN and Tubitak-SAGE are the Turkish joint leadership team who strategically manage the development, integration, and production of the advanced precision-guided Stand-off Missle (SOM) which will be carried internally on the 5th Generation F-35 aircraft.

•Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) has been strategically supporting the F-35 Program since 2008. The company currently supplies production hardware that goes into every F-35 production aircraft. In conjunction with Northrup Grumman, TAI manufactures and assembles the center fuselages, produces composite skins and weapon bay doors, and manufactures fiber placement composite air inlet ducts. Additionally, TAI is strategically manufacturing almost 50 percent of the F-35’s Alternate Mission Equipment (AME) including Air-to-Ground Pylons and adapters. In 2011, TAI and Pratt & Whitney signed a strategic agreement to pursue options for future F135 FACO and MRO capabilities for Turkey. TAI has also been assigned to represent the organic depots of the Turkish Armed Forces within the Autonomic Logistic Global Sustainment (ALGS) system.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Oct 2013 21:00

Depends on what the definition of advanced is. How many of those above items are because those Turkish firms developed those items themselves as versus having received TOT and /or are building to print (i.e. license manufacturing/assembling from production processes and materials they have been transferred).

Similarly, HAL is currently making a host of systems for the Su-30MKI, yet, if looked at dispassionately, that alone does not make HAL advanced, since many of these processes and technologies were transferred by Sukhoi. The same will be the case for the Rafale. Dassault will (or is expected to) transfer a lot of tech. and also enable 50% offset value by Indian firms. However, while these will raise the level of Indian aerospace to a degree, they alone will not be sufficient to make Indian aerospace advanced.

I would submit that the Turkish aerospace industry would be truly "advanced", if it was able to design and develop significant systems entirely on its own, or with a leadership in the process. Once it does so, over 2-3 product cycles, then it earns that moniker by virtue of its proven abilities.

Of course, offsets and work share participations like the above contribute to that strength, but they cannot be the only criteria for evaluation.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 02 Oct 2013 21:04

Karan M wrote:Depends on what the definition of advanced is. How many of those above items are because those Turkish firms developed those items themselves as versus having received TOT and /or are building to print (i.e. license manufacturing/assembling from production processes and materials they have been transferred).

Similarly, HAL is currently making a host of systems for the Su-30MKI, yet, if looked at dispassionately, that alone does not make HAL advanced, since many of these processes and technologies were transferred by Sukhoi. The same will be the case for the Rafale. Dassault will (or is expected to) transfer a lot of tech. and also enable 50% offset value by Indian firms. However, while these will raise the level of Indian aerospace to a degree, they alone will not be sufficient to make Indian aerospace advanced.

I would submit that the Turkish aerospace industry would be truly "advanced", if it was able to design and develop significant systems entirely on its own, or with a leadership in the process. Once it does so, over 2-3 product cycles, then it earns that moniker by virtue of its proven abilities.

Of course, offsets and work share participations like the above contribute to that strength, but they cannot be the only criteria for evaluation.

Agree at the same time, I wonder how many of the turkish firms have firangi owners/partners/investors/scientists etc. Most of the time its a subsidiary or a major partnership with foreign firms.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Oct 2013 21:19

No doubt.. being part of the NATO umbrella has its advantages. Personnel, industry best practises, TOT, manufacturing eqpt etc can all be shared more openly. I wonder though with Mr Erdogan's pronounced Islamist/independent tilt, and the recent Chinese SAM selection, his issues with Israel, future tech transfers might come under some limitation.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 02 Oct 2013 21:25

[OT here
Does EU policy as a whole or European countries welcome Turks only as temporary workers?

I think Germany is bending to Turk demands for citizenship and benefits. Same goes for labour intensive industrial regions.

OT over.]

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 02 Oct 2013 21:40

Karan M wrote:No doubt.. being part of the NATO umbrella has its advantages. Personnel, industry best practises, TOT, manufacturing eqpt etc can all be shared more openly. I wonder though with Mr Erdogan's pronounced Islamist/independent tilt, and the recent Chinese SAM selection, his issues with Israel, future tech transfers might come under some limitation.

More than likely, there will be a serious 'monkey wrench' thrown into the deal and possibly cancelled. Ofcourse besides compatibility with NATO standards, its a US sanctioned chinese firm

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Oct 2013 22:12

Unkil khan periodically props up handpicked Islamic states with extreme largesse in terms of tech and weaponry.. they then discover their "roots" and start sliding away.. guess Turkey may head that way too. First Iran with its F-14s and all sorts of stuff, then Pak with its F-16s and all the fancy gizmos..only KSA seems to be a stalwart, paying baksheesh in terms of purchasing highly specced overpriced gear..and with nice ties to US rulers + oil reserves.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 03 Oct 2013 12:45

China carrier update

Things not going quite as per PLAN?!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 05 Oct 2013 13:26

AVIC promotes fighter exports but remains dependent on Russian engines - Jane

Officials from the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) and its export arm told IHS Jane's at Aviation Expo China in Beijing that the industry's long-term goal is to promote its existing export product line while simultaneously developing a next-generation combat aircraft to compete with the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

However, both AVIC officials and Russian industry representatives confirmed that the PRC's fighter programmes will remain dependant on Moscow for propulsion technology for the foreseeable future.

Their statements on engine purchases from Russia are consistent with the message previously conveyed to the Moscow-based Salyut aeroengine enterprise and other Russian defence firms by the senior command of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) during the November 2010 Air Show China in Zhuhai.

arijitkm · Post by **arijitkm** » 06 Oct 2013 08:03

China conducts satellite capture in space as part of Star Wars military program

China last week conducted a test of a maneuvering satellite that captured another satellite in space during what Pentagon officials say was a significant step forward for Beijing’s space warfare program.

The satellite capture took place last week and involved one of three small satellites fitted with a mechanical arm that were launched July 20 as part of a covert anti-satellite weapons development program, said U.S. officials familiar with reports of the test.

One official described the satellite-grabbing spacecraft as a “mobile satellite launch vehicle.”

A Pentagon spokeswoman declined to comment on the specifics of the test. But Cynthia O. Smith, the spokeswoman, confirmed that the satellites, designated Payloads A, B, and C, have maneuvered in space since their launch.

“The United States Strategic Command’s Joint Functional Combatant Command for Space (JFCC-Space), consistent with its routine operations to maintain track of objects in space, has monitored these satellites since their launch and has noticed the relative motions of these satellites amongst each other and with respect to other space objects,” she said.

The Pentagon’s website Space-Track.org does not report on missions or functions of the hundreds of space objects it tracks, and Smith referred further questions to the Chinese government.

A Chinese Embassy spokesman did not return emails seeking comment on the ASAT test.

The satellites involved in the space warfare development program were identified by the Chinese as “scientific experimentation satellites,” according to a notice published July 24 in the online journal Space News.

They were identified as Chuangxin-3 (Innovation-3), Shiyan-7 (Experiment-7), and Shijian-15 (Practice-15). The spacecraft with the robotic mechanical arm that conducted the satellite capture experiment has not been authoritatively identified from among the three orbiters. However, space analysts suspect it is Shiyan-7.

Space News is published by the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp. (CASC), which builds strategic missiles and space launchers, and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC), China’s largest missile manufacturer.

The notice stated that the three satellites were launched atop a Long March-4C rocket on July 20 from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in north central China.

“These three satellites are to be used for the observation of space debris and conducting scientific experiments in space maintenance techniques like space arm operations,” the statement said.

Space Track continues to identify the satellites as by their payload designations, rather than using the Chinese names.

Space analyst Bob Christy, who writes the blog Zarya.info that first disclosed the three satellites, said no public information has indicated the three satellites involved in earlier close maneuvers engaged in a significant orbit change since activities in August.

“There have certainly been no more approaches between them, and Payload A has shown no sign of maneuvering in the whole of its time in space,” he said in an email.

Since no other satellites are in the same orbit as the three satellites and another satellite known as Shijian-7, “if the capture was last week, it didn’t involve any of these working together,” he said.

Christy said that leaves the possibility that Shijian-7 was captured by Payload C during a close flyby around Aug. 17.

“My actual calculations showed them getting closer than 500 meters but given the inherent error margins of the Space Track data, I stuck with a few hundred meters,” he said.

Another possibility is that the test involved a detachable part of one satellite and its release into a separate orbit, and the subsequent recapturing of the component using the extension arm, Christy said.

“If the separation distance was small and the period of separated flight was short, then U.S. sensors are unlikely to have detected an extra object in orbit,” he said.

A third possibility is that the test involved completely different satellites that were not observed by non-government space trackers.

Christy’s analysis of the August activities revealed that the satellites conducted several experiments.

Since August, Payload C and Shijian-7 showed slight variations in orbit that are likely the result of thruster operation for position control, Christy stated in a recent blog post.

In August, Payload B, a non-maneuvering satellite, was positioned about 620 miles behind Payload C, a spacecraft that specialists say could be the craft with the manipulator arm, and Payload C gradually slowed to until is passed very close to the other satellite.

The robotic satellite may be part of efforts to develop China’s large space station set to be deployed around 2020.

However, Pentagon officials believe the small satellite activity is more closely associated with China’s secret ASAT program.

Little is known about the Chinese space warfare program, which is among the Chinese military’s most closely guarded secrets.

China conducted a direct ascent ASAT missile test in January 2007 that destroyed a Chinese weather satellite and created tens of thousands orbiting debris pieces that threaten both manned and unmanned spacecraft.

Chinese officials have told U.S. counterparts that the 2007 test was a one-time event and so far have not conducted further debris-causing satellite attack tests.

A U.S. official told the Free Beacon in August that the launch of the three satellites was part of Beijing’s covert anti-satellite warfare program.

The official said the craft with the robotic arm was viewed as the most threatening because U.S. satellites, vital strategic assets used by both the American military and civilian infrastructure, are vulnerable to kinetic or electronic disruption in space.

The official said the satellites are part of China’s “Star Wars” space weapon program that has been largely ignored by the Obama administration over concerns that pressing China to explain its space weapons would upset U.S.-China relations.

The ASAT program is a “real concern for U.S. national defense,” the official said.

Until the satellite capture, the mission of the spacecraft with the mechanical arm was unknown. It was thought that it could used to grab, gouge, or alter the orbits of other satellites.

The craft also could be used for maintenance and repair.

Rick Fisher, a Chinese military affairs specialist, said the robot-arm satellite that he believes is the Shiyan-7 is part of China’s dual-use space program that includes satellites for military close-surveillance and attack missions. Civilian applications include development of space manipulator arm technology.

“As an ASAT, a future version of the SY-7 could be used to take close-up images of U.S. satellites, to remove systems from those satellites and return them to China, to directly damage U.S. satellites or to plant ‘mines’ on those satellites or close nearby,” said Fisher, with the International Assessment and Strategy Center.

“An SY-7-like ASAT gives China the option to attack enemy satellites without creating a large cloud of debris that may also damage other Chinese satellites.”

Fisher said China recently hosted a major space conference and is seeking to position itself as a space “superpower” as a means to increase cooperation and technology acquisition from other countries.

At the conference, “Chinese officials made a deliberate appeal to Canada, which developed and built the manipulator arm used on the International Space Station and U.S. Space Shuttles,” Fisher said.

However, Fisher said China made every effort to conceal the People’s Liberation Army’s role in the space program and would probably deny any military role in the developing mechanical arm technology for offensive space operations.

“The ‘Canadarm’ [manipulator arm] was developed in Canada with Canadian funding and four were purchased by NASA for the U.S. Space Shuttle program,” he said.

China conducted a test launch of a new high-Earth orbit anti-satellite missile called the DN-2 in March, according to U.S. officials.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Oct 2013 17:57

Photo of J-20 with PL-13 missiles released for PRC national day.Pic in link.The missile is not housed in an internal weapons bay,perhaps deliberately carried on an outboard station for PR purposes.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 1006000081

Staff Reporter
2013-10-06

One of the release photos of the J-20, equipped with PL-13 missiles. (Internet Photo)

More photos of the J-20, China's first fifth generation steath fighter equipped with PL-13 air-to-air missiles, were released on the internet to celebrate the 64th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China, reports Chinese-language Qianzhan.com.

Known by Western media as Fire Fang, the J-20 "Weilong" inaugurates China as the third country in the world to operate stealth fighter after the United States and Russia. The new photos clearly indicate that the Chengdu Aviation Industry designed the J-20 as a competitor against the US F-22 and Russian T-50 in future aerial combat.

The Weilong is being modified for carrier-based combat as well. The primary mission of this new version of J-20 will be hunting F-35 the US F-35 and allied fighters in the Asia-Pacific region.

With the ability to reach hypersonic speeds of Mach 5, the PL-13 missile can run down virtually every aircraft in the world, said the Party-run Global Times. The J-20s current deficiencies, such as its weaker engine, will be fixed in the near future.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 10 Oct 2013 04:46

http://idrw.org/?p=27881

not sure if anyone posted it elsewhere

Find it hard to believe "Nimitz class runway is too short to be free of risk of crash"

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Oct 2013 06:28

^^^^ That's the stupidest thing I have seen in a while. Must be fan-boy stuff.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Oct 2013 09:10

China to Join Russia in Maintaining Security in Asia-Pacific: Xi

Chinese President Xi Jinping said here Monday that China would like to work with Russia to guarantee security and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.

While meeting with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on the sideline of an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit, Xi said China and Russia share a wide range of common interests in the region.

Xi said China is willing to join Russia in enhancing their coordination so as to maintain regional security and stability, and promote prosperity.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 10 Oct 2013 09:44

Austin wrote:China to Join Russia in Maintaining Security in Asia-Pacific: Xi

Chinese President Xi Jinping said here Monday that China would like to work with Russia to guarantee security and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.

While meeting with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on the sideline of an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit, Xi said China and Russia share a wide range of common interests in the region.

Xi said China is willing to join Russia in enhancing their coordination so as to maintain regional security and stability, and promote prosperity.

After the exercises in July off Vladivostok between the two navies, this is more reaffirmation of how the new cold war battle lines are shaping up. Interesting choices before India as it considers being a "France-like" member of the Pacific Pivot.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Oct 2013 09:46

India will stay away from both the groups and will maintain an equidistant and good relationship with both. India has good relations with China , US and Russia.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Oct 2013 10:13

Philip wrote:Photo of J-20 with PL-13 missiles released for PRC national day.Pic in link.The missile is not housed in an internal weapons bay,perhaps deliberately carried on an outboard station for PR purposes.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 1006000081

That's old news. J-20s have been carrying missiles for a few months.

[youtube]eVUX_hfEouQ&list=UUDTZCdI_lfkY8kJ68T3_kNg[/youtube]

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 10 Oct 2013 11:10

Austin wrote:India will stay away from both the groups and will maintain an equidistant and good relationship with both. India has good relations with China , US and Russia.

We're not equidistant even now

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Oct 2013 14:05

Austin wrote:India will stay away from both the groups and will maintain an equidistant and good relationship with both. India has good relations with China , US and Russia.

India in order to safely maintain equidistant relations with all groups. Will need to develop a military industrial complex similar to Sweden or France. But on a much larger scale.

Or else try to become a power in itself. With all that it entails.