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This nonsense again? Listen to an ex-diplomat @29.30 - http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... /301928?hpKatare wrote:[edited]
User warned for language and glee at an Indian woman being violated by US authorities.
ramana
US has laws and laws would apply in all their (stripped) majestic glory. Everyone and everything is subject to US laws that also includes the US military equipment and paraphernalia (?). Wonder how useful these machines will be when they are liable to be taken down by machinations of a two bit middle level official hell bent on poking his nose into affairs he does not understand?KrishnaK wrote:Nice try Phillip. We purchased mil gear from the US because it was the best we could get
And may be that could explain his overtly luke warm approach to NaMo ascendency. That raises one important question, how deeply our political system is compromised or penetrated? Even BJP is not immune for such influences. Efforts to check NaMo stems not only from outside but could be from inside as well. I hope his security details are not compromised.ramana wrote:From Shekar Gupta's oped looks like LKA put those barricades despite MEA advice in 2001.
he got paid back for the kindness.
Yes ambitious maids certainly seem to be the problem!habal wrote:these folks are very ambitious, and most speak very fluent english unlike sangeeta. So once they are taken to English-speaking countries, their ambition can get the better of them. And then it becomes mandatory to file charges against employer to entertain asylum request abroad.Dipanker wrote:And yet Debyani's case is 3rd one in almost as many year. First it was Prabhu Dayal (?), then Mehrotra, and now Debyani. Got to be the maids?
why not !Dipanker wrote:Yes ambitious maids certainly seem to be the problem!
Good summaryMaid in Manhattan: A migration project
Saturday, 21 December 2013 | Ashok Malik | in Edit
Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, accused of violating US labour laws, seems to be the victim herself, entrapped by her domestic help on the one hand and an over-ambitious district attorney on the other
Why did the Devyani Khobragade case blow up into a diplomatic crisis? Three factors have to be kept in mind. First, Ms Khobragade’s arrest has so angered the Indian system because there is genuine belief in the Ministry of External Affairs that she did no wrong. She is not guilty of any individual crime. If she used a short-cut — and one a clever lawyer can defend in court — it was with the approbation of both countries.
Contrary to media reports, Ms Khobragade’s contract with her housekeeper, Sangeeta Richard, does not promise her a composite sum of US $4,500 a month or anything of the sort. It promises an hourly wage — “minimum wage in New York or prevailing wage, whichever is higher” — and agrees to make deductions for perquisites such as medical insurance, room rent, food and so on. This contract was shown, not submitted, to United States Embassy officials by Ms Richard to get her visa. Ms Richard also submitted a form that stated her employer’s salary — a third figure altogether and if considered strictly in terms of its cash component, itself in violation of New York’s minimum wage.
Some but far from all Indian diplomats posted in the US take along domestic staff. These employees are paid high salaries by Indian standards and all expenses are taken care of. Obviously hourly wages in New York (or Washington, DC) are much greater and some of the domestic employees are tempted to moonlight. On occasion, they have alleged mistreatment by the diplomat, gone to human rights NGOs and sought to institute legal proceedings. In some cases, Indian diplomats have been indicted. In some cases, the police has found no case against them and recognised the charges are false. However, so strong is the organised human rights/anti-trafficking lobby that in all cases — irrespective of the veracity of their charges — the cooks or housekeepers have got their green cards or legal resident status in the US.
So why didn’t Ms Richard allege the Khobragade family was beating her up and why did she bring up the salary discrepancy? This is because Ms Khobragade had done something different from other Indian Foreign Service colleagues who take along domestic staff. She had signed a second contract, promising to pay Ms Richard Rs 30,000 a month. The entire money was transferred to a bank account — since Ms Richard had no expenses in New York — and the second contract was signed to make the employee feel secure. Such second contracts are certainly not usual practice. The MEA believes Ms Khobragade signed the second contract in good faith. Ms Richard’s insistence on this is now being viewed as ‘entrapment’ and part of a pre-conceived migration plan.
Second, it is likely somebody in the US Embassy — probably an official or a family member, acting in a private capacity and knowing Ms Richard and her in-laws personally — advised Ms Richard to exploit the two-contract loophole, use anti-trafficking laws to bolster her case, approach certain anti-trafficking NGOs and then District Attorney Preet Bharara’s office. This person possibly made Ms Richard aware that if, at this stage, the district attorney’s office asked for Ms Richard’s family to be ‘evacuated’ to the US as witnesses in an anti-trafficking case, their visas could not be denied. Adult family members would be given the requisite T category visa to live and work in the US.
In South Block, there is belief this elaborate plan was drawn up even before Ms Richard left for the US. That is why External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid called Ms Khobragade the victim of “a conspiracy”. The end purpose of the conspiracy was to facilitate the Richard family’s permanent migration.
Third, the motivations of Mr Bharara and the State Department are different. Mr Bharara is an ambitious man in New York, looking to take on the high and mighty — usually white collar criminals on Wall Street — project himself as ‘Mr Clean-up’ and build a political career. Targeting a diplomat who seemed to violate a contract, especially a diplomat from the country of his origin, appealed to him. New York is home to hundreds of diplomats, working in consulates or at the United Nations. Some can be pushy, emboldened by their immunity status. This has made the diplomatic corps unpopular with ordinary New Yorkers. Ironically, Indian diplomats are relatively well behaved in this construct. Nevertheless, Mr Bharara grabbed his chance.
The State Department was asleep at the wheel. Old India hands had moved out in recent months and a new team was handling New Delhi. Its communication channels were blurred. It clearly did not anticipate the Indian reaction. As for the US Embassy, it has known for years that the contract shown by domestic employees while applying for a visa is not necessarily indicative of true cash wage. It informally advised this subterfuge as part of an arrangement between two foreign offices, which gave each other privileges that technically may have violated local laws.
So what happens next? Ms Khobragade’s lawyer will contest Mr Bharara on grounds of jurisdiction, contending the contracts can’t be adjudicated by a New York court. Mr Bharara will push for conviction. The State Department can back Mr Bharara’s legal case or it can grant Ms Khobragade a G-1 visa and agree to her transfer to the Indian mission at the UN. This will give her full diplomatic immunity. Alternatively, it can declare her persona non grata and expel her. In that case India will similarly expel a US diplomat.
Whatever happens, the Indian system is determined to walk down the path of reciprocity. Unilateral privileges given to US diplomats have been withdrawn. The blanket airport passes for US officials have gone. The barricades outside the US embassy in New Delhi, which blocked a major city road, have been removed. They were not there because of any specific threat perception but followed a verbal request made to an earlier, expansive Lieutenant Governor of Delhi by the then US Ambassador.
The US gives officials at the Indian embassy in Washington, DC, full diplomatic immunity but denies this to diplomats at Indian consulates in other cities. In India, however, it has sought full diplomatic immunity even for its consulate officials in say Chennai or Mumbai. India has revoked this. Consulate officials will have lesser consular immunity. Their identity cards will be stamped with “No immunity from felony”. This is exactly what cards of Indian consulate officials in the US say.
Next, the Indian taxman will get into the act. Indians employed by the US Embassy and by US diplomats in a personal capacity will be required to submit income as well as tax documentation. If irregularities are found, to assist the course of justice their American employers may be ‘requested’ to come to the tax office to help ‘clarify doubts’.
A host of privileges, some of them extracted in the aftermath of the 1962 war with China, when India was vulnerable, are being reconsidered. Foreign nationals (like spouses or friends of diplomats) teaching in the American Embassy School in India are allowed tax-free salaries. This regime is being re-assessed. Foreign teachers at such schools do need work permits. Do they have them? Are Indian teachers too being paid tax-free salaries, which would be illegal? These are all questions the tax bureaucracy will ask. It will not be a picnic.
Lastly, what of Sangeeta Richard and her family? Frankly, their migration project is complete. India will never see them again.
(The accompanying visual is of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade’s absconding domestic help Sangeeta Richard along with her husband Phillip)
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I say its time to re-open the case and charge the diplomat with murder/manslaughterAccording to reports, an Indian died in Delhi after being hit by a car driven by a US diplomat but compensation was given to the family and the matter was handled without a transatlantic circus
ramana wrote:chetak, What relevance is the DK's property to this thread?
Do you want one step ban along with others?
What pulse and soul of India r u referring to? As for soul and pulse of indias there are 120 corer of them so no one can know the pulse or soul of indiansvenug wrote:Sometimes I feel no matter how much a foreigner loves India, he fails to understand the pulse and soul of India and Indians. Please keep in mind the reference.Francois Gautier: #DevyaniHumiliated However much I love India,I've often been shocked at how Indians - specially rich ones -treat & underpay their servants.
I wonder how useful it will be in a conflict. Will the US refuse us spares, parts, and everything else we need exactly at the moment we need them? Philip-ji has a very good point. Russia has always been a dependable partner, their time delays and cost overruns notwithstanding. When the push comes to the shove, you can almost always trust them.KrishnaK wrote: Nice try Phillip. We purchased mil gear from the US because it was the best we could get..
I say that is not going to happen. Willing to bet on it ???Prem Kumar wrote:Per this article, this is how *we* treat the ungrateful American diplomats
http://www.firstpost.com/world/khobraga ... ef_article
I say its time to re-open the case and charge the diplomat with murder/manslaughterAccording to reports, an Indian died in Delhi after being hit by a car driven by a US diplomat but compensation was given to the family and the matter was handled without a transatlantic circus
2001 could mean that it was after 9/11.ramana wrote:From Shekar Gupta's oped looks like LKA put those barricades despite MEA advice in 2001.
he got paid back for the kindness.
Was it after the Parliament attack, Ramana-ji? Or the Kashmir Assembly attack?ramana wrote:From Shekar Gupta's oped looks like LKA put those barricades despite MEA advice in 2001.
he got paid back for the kindness.
If pro-India is like this, then anti-India US public opinion would be much better. In any case, wars in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan have proven that US public opinion doesn't matter worth a cent. In anyways it's a population that is constantly kept under tight leash under constant threat of cavity and strip search. It's the deep state that takes decisions, and in the present instance it surely would also be pining for a face saving exit. It seems quite as if they know not what hit them and that too in holiday season. They did a typical evacuation and the maid did a typical scoot & file charges against employer citing bad bad caste system, slavery system, India's obsession for fair skin or employers habit to chant Om which disturbs her piousness or whatever excuse possible. But didn't predict this level of commotion.Patni wrote:IMHO there is now a very small chance of any pro-usa loby, in Indian administration, to succeed in playing along with USA-PAKI desire of allowing strategic depth to pakis in Afghanistan. Can it be that the whole episode is orchestrated to snub India very publicly and get the reaction from India that makes it easy for Gotus to manage local public opinion to be anti-India. It makes it easier for USA to be openly anti-Indian interests in our part of world, when new Indian government comes in 2014 which may not be as pro-usa as current one is.
Would the US have treated any of the diplomats from a "white" 4-eyes only" nation such as the UK,Canada,Oz or NZ or its western NATO allies for such a minor alleged offence,or interfered with India's judiciary to virtually smuggle out the maid and her family to the US as such? When India kept mum over the espionage activities of a US diplomat caught in the act and quietly sent him home,is this how we are treated in return?
Russia, the biggest defence supplier to India, seems to be enraged over New Delhi’s tilt towards the West for its arms and military requirements, despite Moscow consciously not selling to Pakistan.
At the Aero India Show at Yelahanka air base here, Viktor Komardin, chief of Russia’s defence export firm Rosoboronexport, vented anger on the Indian media, saying they were ‘unfair’ to Russia in reports on the recent defence deals.
“Russia created the Indian defence industry. The reports are not proper,” Komardin told reporters. His rage, however, seemed directed more towards the Indian Government’s efforts to not put all its eggs in the Russian basket.
“We do not sell military equipment to Pakistan, only because of our loyalty to India. But all other nations, with whom India does business, sell their weapons and systems to Pakistan. We are India’s true strategic partners,” he said.
Presently, Russia has about $7 billion (Rs 35,000 crore) worth of contracts in India, including the licenced manufacture of 222 Su-30 combat aircraft, over 1,500 T-90 battle tanks and other systems. Moscow also has deals for co-developing the Fifth General Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and the Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA), both next generation platforms.
However, in the last decade, India has majorly bought American, French and Israeli systems. The US alone notched up about $8 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) worth of arms sales in India, emerging as a major alternative to Russia, in supplying weapons and military platforms for Indian armed forces.
“We were the first to transfer defence technology to India about 50 years ago when we gave MiG-21 combat planes in 1964. We have given the Su-30 and T-90 battle tank technologies, BrahMos cruise missiles, and now we are going to do FGFA and MTA with you,” he said. He pointed out that India was buying technology from other countries at exorbitant prices, without any benefit to its defence industrial base.
The warm reception that Indians unwittingly give to "Indophiles" is one of the reasons why the white man feels it their birthright to criticize/insult India. These apparently "friendly" extra-nationals are all most likely part of a larger effort to delude and bewilder the Indians from different angles. This was seen in the OIT thread as well. Remember that the "Indo-philia" of such people has a sinister underpinning, just like other types of "philia"s.venug wrote:Sometimes I feel no matter how much a foreigner loves India, he fails to understand the pulse and soul of India and Indians. Please keep in mind the reference.Francois Gautier: #DevyaniHumiliated However much I love India,I've often been shocked at how Indians - specially rich ones -treat & underpay their servants.
I think dhesh will continue to face this kind of humiliation as long as it depends on the 'goodwill' of some other country. Dhesh as to stand on its own feet. Others can only help you so much. They cannot and will not do everything for you.nageshks wrote:I wonder how useful it will be in a conflict. Will the US refuse us spares, parts, and everything else we need exactly at the moment we need them? Philip-ji has a very good point. Russia has always been a dependable partner, their time delays and cost overruns notwithstanding. When the push comes to the shove, you can almost always trust them.KrishnaK wrote: Nice try Phillip. We purchased mil gear from the US because it was the best we could get..
Having seen how Americans view us, and how Russians view us, I can say without any hesitation that I would rather depend on Russian goodwill, than American goodwill.
On a purely civilisational level, Russia is a genuine ally (Orthodox Christianity does not seek to convert all of us and destroy the Hindu civilisation, and funnily enough, I have read more unbiased versions of Indian history by Communist Russian authors than by JNU or American authors. There is more respect for Hinduism coming from Russians than from Americans). Sadly, the same cannot be said of the US.
It was in 1998 after the Nairobi bombinb.shyam wrote:2001 could mean that it was after 9/11.ramana wrote:From Shekar Gupta's oped looks like LKA put those barricades despite MEA advice in 2001.
he got paid back for the kindness.
If India's stance of sticking to logic makes the local opinion go south - clearly you have a very low opinion of the aam American. You may well be right though - on some days I have the same low opinion myself.Dipanker wrote:Local opinion in US is bound to go south, that is given, a collateral casualty of consul gate if you like.
Surprisingly for last so many years India used to figure among half a dozen nation of whom US population had positive view of. It would be interesting to see the Indian opinion too.
Dude, first learn to think and do basic research about the issue b4 asking others to shut up. Agreement with who in USA? Law enforcement agencies are independent of all these understanding. They only go by law, if u know of any law i wud be more than interested in learning about it.Prasad wrote:This nonsense again? Listen to an ex-diplomat @29.30 - http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... /301928?hpKatare wrote:[edited]
User warned for language and glee at an Indian woman being violated by US authorities.
ramana
This has been a practice in place for two decades under mutual understanding with the us. So can we shut it with the nonsense about 'this woman lying'?
What is the law that should apply in the current case, Katare ? American Law or the Vienna Convention ?Katare wrote:They only go by law, if u know of any law i wud be more than interested in learning about it.
-- US is India's great ally. All izzz well.It will just make a generation of Indians who do not have the memory of cold-war dynamics and have consistently been pro-US see the real face of US. To spite Modi, assuming he is coming to power, shoot itself in the foot. How does it help US in being openly anti-Indian?Patni wrote:IMHO there is now a very small chance of any pro-usa loby, in Indian administration, to succeed in playing along with USA-PAKI desire of allowing strategic depth to pakis in Afghanistan. Can it be that the whole episode is orchestrated to snub India very publicly and get the reaction from India that makes it easy for Gotus to manage local public opinion to be anti-India. It makes it easier for USA to be openly anti-Indian interests in our part of world, when new Indian government comes in 2014 which may not be as pro-usa as current one is.
Why should the US local opinion matter to dhesh and bhaarathiyas? And if the local opinion in US could be so easily upped or downed, then it is simply a manufactured opinion(manufactured by its media). So, its anyway useless.Dipanker wrote:Local opinion in US is bound to go south, that is given, a collateral casualty of consul gate if you like.
Surprisingly for last so many years India used to figure among half a dozen nation of whom US population had positive view of. It would be interesting to see the Indian opinion too.
Exactly my thought .. It makes it easier for Modi to disengage and clean the stable once for all.Arjun wrote:Actually I think this helps Modi tremendously once he does take over. He can't be accused of spoiling Indo-US relationships purely to advance his nationalist agenda. Obama and Bharara managed to find a way to shoot the US in the foot even before Modi comes in.
I disagree with you there. Personally I don't think India's reaction has not been logical. Burning down the pizza place does not help either. Anyway it seems sanity is returning now.Arjun wrote:If India's stance of sticking to logic makes the local opinion go south - clearly you have a very low opinion of the aam American. You may well be right though - on some days I have the same low opinion myself.Dipanker wrote:Local opinion in US is bound to go south, that is given, a collateral casualty of consul gate if you like.
Surprisingly for last so many years India used to figure among half a dozen nation of whom US population had positive view of. It would be interesting to see the Indian opinion too.
pankajs wrote:It is not about Modis standing in US but that it makes it easier for Modi to go after anti-national forces once the US takes an openly Anti-Indian position.
Anti-national here being folks who want India to toe the US line against our interests.
Jarita wrote:^^^ And who really supports Modi in the western world. Let us not be deluded
Raisina Series @RaisinaSeries 11m
SangeetaRichard's in-laws last worked for Uzra Zeya,who is now US Asstnt Sectry--Bureau of Democracy/HumanRights/Labor. Mystery solved. KP