Intelligence & National Security Discussion

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 19 Feb 2009 11:13

Nikhil T wrote:Pakistan arrests 3 alleged RAW spies

TSP's attempt to become the victim.

Lol... I was reading JN Dixits book on India-Pak. He talks about an incidents in the early 90s where one of our senior embassy officials was kidnapped and severely tortured (he had to undergo physio care for a few months after that, and was emotionally wrecked). He was sent back home. In response, we expelled 3 senior Pak Embassy officials... they went into the plane back to Islamabad in perfect health, but by the time they reached, they covered themselves in fake bandages and crutches. Height of Puki whining!!!

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 19 Feb 2009 11:29

sum wrote:
Is that why RAW didnt want to hand over ComInt to NTRO?!
Comint isnt with NTRO?

So, NTRO just keeps track of Sat imagery and nothing else?

Also, since all the equipment used by RAW for any activity is foreign made/procured, what is the guarentee that other agencies aren't accessing everything we see through backdoors?

NTRO's mandate is a complete TECHINT super-feeder - will keep off giving any info not in PD, but suffice to say that their brief is far beyond Sat-IMINT. COMINT, OSINT, etc would all come under them.

However, what is to be noted is that they are a "feeder organization" - that means that it does not preclude the other intell orgs from opening their own techint infrastructure, although, if NTRO already has it, they may not be given the funds.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 19 Feb 2009 11:35

AmitR wrote:WASHINGTON: A senior US lawmaker told a Senate intelligence hearing that CIA Predator drones attacking high-value militant targets in Pakistan are operating out of bases within the country.

IIRC, there was a pic of Paki generals and Air Mshls examining a Predator in one of their bases - I think it was Peshawar, along with the US operators and technicians... was a publicity stunt then, in the early days of GOAT, but now makes for interesting remembrance... will try and dig up the pic from WAFF or other places.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 19 Feb 2009 11:45

Avinash R wrote: Sooner or later "middle east" will come under the spotlight for being a jehadi swamp just like tribal areas of pakistan has become today and the agency that can best protect india is RAW. So by atttacking this agency and planting these type of articles they are trying to destroy public confidence in india's best early warning system against terrorism.

Would have been nice if this were true, but reports on the female R&AW officer case are available in all major newspapers, and PTI, and furthermore, Maj Gen VK Singh, an otherwise distinguished officer, also makes a severe and scathing indictment of these gentlemen (Chaturvedi and Trivedi) in his book (which was subsequently banned on Chaturvedi's advice).

I suspect that the reports appearing in ME Times are planted by personnel in the R&AW who are completely disgusted with Chaturvedi, and that is the prevailing view in the intel establishment as well, as it would seem by a cursory glance at a cross section of media reports, and interviews with govt personnel.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 19 Feb 2009 11:47

k prasad wrote: NTRO's mandate is a complete TECHINT super-feeder - will keep off giving any info not in PD, but suffice to say that their brief is far beyond Sat-IMINT. COMINT, OSINT, etc would all come under them.

However, what is to be noted is that they are a "feeder organization" - that means that it does not preclude the other intell orgs from opening their own techint infrastructure, although, if NTRO already has it, they may not be given the funds.

^^^
But still it is like creating more layers when we need few and greater inter organization co-operation.

Why cant we have a setup something like below (more of my wet dreams):

RAW - exclusive strategic Humint
DIA - oversees field intelligence and all TECHINT
IB - internal security, CI and CT

DIA is mandated to provide TECHINT support as and when required by RAW/ IB.

RAW focuses on external targets on specific inputs from DIA/ IB.

Eg1: DIA notices through IMINT certain enemy units moving around. RAW taps into sources in that area/ generates new sources in the higher enemy decision making loop to ascertain the intentions.
Eg2: IB managed to turn an agent in the country and handover to RAW when that agent goes back to parent country.
Eg3: Have a joint IB, RAW and DIA ops to run a double cross system. They decide together what info is not that important to provide to double agents to increase the credibility, etc.

All the 3 have deputed personnel to each other who, in addition to liaisons, carry out functions that are in the merging realm of capabilites.
Eg1, personnel deputed from RAW to DIA in the analyses section.
Eg2, Personnel deputed from DIA to RAW in the special operations section.
Eg3, Personnel from IB to RAW in the CI team within RAW.
Eg4, Personnel from IB to DIA in the Comint section covering inside India

Moreover, encourage inter organization co-operation between the same desks rather than restrict to higher levels. Example the China desk of RAW, DIA and IB discuss regularly available info and individual analysis(without jeopardizing their sources).

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 19 Feb 2009 12:02

A few reasons Kiran:

NTRO was formed after the Kargil report on intell failure, esp by RAW and DIA....

A dedicated distinction for different agencies is dangerous and will not work... each agency should have a mandate of areal jurisdiction, but must be given full freedom to choose their tools and techniques without interference... an op may require HUMINT, COMINT and IMINT, but if 3 different organizations are involved, it makes the op less secure, more difficult and more prone to failure.

A dedicated feeder organization leads to:

1. Better coordination - since they dont do any ops, they dont have anything to gain by hiding info or not sharing it
2. Better focus - all funds can be used for TECHINT only, rather having it fritter away
3. Manpower - specific and experienced manpower can be recruited for that, rather than having RAS or UPSC recruitments.

Also, what you propose is good, but in practise, it is failing for human reasons... so they have decided for an out of box solution to permanently end it. Whether it works is again a human matter.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Feb 2009 14:04

ASPuar wrote:
Avinash R wrote: Sooner or later "middle east" will come under the spotlight for being a jehadi swamp just like tribal areas of pakistan has become today and the agency that can best protect india is RAW. So by atttacking this agency and planting these type of articles they are trying to destroy public confidence in india's best early warning system against terrorism.
Would have been nice if this were true, but reports on the female R&AW officer case are available in all major newspapers

Whom do you believe?
A mentally unstable person who makes allegations and tries to commit suicide but doesn't appear before the panel constituted to look into allegations made by her. Isn't it nice that you can accuse someone of sexual harassment and become a darling of the media for "fighting for all women"{her quote} and then dont turn up to prove them.

RAW says no proof to back Bhatia charges
Ritu Sarin Posted: Aug 27, 2008 at 0118 hrs IST
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/raw-s ... es/353787/

The SHC concluded that it could find “no proof” to substantiate Bhatia’s complaints....

The SHC was headed by RAW joint secretary Shashi Prabha and had a co-opted member, National Security Council director Tara Kantha. It also noted that “Ms Bhatia’s threats to take her own life, as well as the threats (faced by her) from other quarters, appear to indicate a disturbed state of mind. As such, counselling may benefit her”.

The report also points out that “Nisha Bhatia’s repeated refusal to appear before the committee despite as many as seven notices being sent to her constrained the committee from making any meaningful assessment of these issues”.

ASPuar wrote:and furthermore, Maj Gen VK Singh, an otherwise distinguished officer, also makes a severe and scathing indictment of these gentlemen (Chaturvedi and Trivedi) in his book (which was subsequently banned on Chaturvedi's advice).

I've not read the book so cant' comment on it.

ASPuar wrote:I suspect that the reports appearing in ME Times are planted by personnel in the R&AW who are completely disgusted with Chaturvedi, and that is the prevailing view in the intel establishment as well, as it would seem by a cursory glance at a cross section of media reports, and interviews with govt personnel.

Why would anyone take the trouble to contact a web based news agency situated in america and allegedly feed them these details. All they had to do was contact any indian news agency and reveal the details and they would remain anonymous. The report would have mentioned "our sources in raw" without the revealing the identity of the official. In the US reporters who refused to reveal their "sources" have been jailed. Not so in india, even terrorist emails full of hatred towards other religions are published by leading newspapers without the risk of being censored by the govt. So there are reason to beileve these allegations are not true otherwise they would have first appeared in indian newspapers. They are not true so hacks like metimes are needed to publish these articles.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 19 Feb 2009 17:01

KiranM wrote:
k prasad wrote: NTRO's mandate is a complete TECHINT super-feeder - will keep off giving any info not in PD, but suffice to say that their brief is far beyond Sat-IMINT. COMINT, OSINT, etc would all come under them.

However, what is to be noted is that they are a "feeder organization" - that means that it does not preclude the other intell orgs from opening their own techint infrastructure, although, if NTRO already has it, they may not be given the funds.
^^^
But still it is like creating more layers when we need few and greater inter organization co-operation.

Why cant we have a setup something like below (more of my wet dreams):

RAW - exclusive strategic Humint
DIA - oversees field intelligence and all TECHINT
IB - internal security, CI and CT

Unfortunately, things are not so elegantly simple. Proliferation of intel organisations is a feature of alll "normal" countries. Part of the reason is democracies dont like to have one "all encompassing" intel setup is to prevent rise of potential frankensteins. See the US (CIA, DIA, FBI, DEA, NSA etc etc), or UK (MI5, MI6, MI etc). The other part of the reason is instituions get setup in reaction to something specific that has happneed, and carry on even when the raison de etre is no longer there - example, political intel as part of IB's mandate, its a relic of the Raj.

The NTRO wasnt set up to be a feeder agency IMHO. The basic premise was to become an Indian version of the NSA, housing all the techint capabilities under one roof. Unfortunately, no one quite defined what "techint" meant exactly, and NTRO got caught up in a turf battle with RAW over resources. They wanted to have the ARC under itslef, RAW refused, and then hit back by blocking NTRO's plans to acquire a fleet of Gulfstreams fitted out with Israeli sensors. This despite the fact that the first NTRO chief was the highly regarded Billy Bedi from RAW (was tipped to become Secreatry RAW when he was given the NTRO mandate).

There is a scope to set up a true "feeder agency" or setup, in lines of what the DNI setup is in the US now. The JIC in India has been a non starter, IB's MAC (which started after the Mumbai attacks after years of delay) is largely an IB setup. What is required is fomralising the JIC with a true "Intel Czar" with a secretariat. Currently, it is based on expedience - till recently, the NSA was the de facto intel czar, now it seems its the Home Minister! Thats quite inefficient. Even a poltiical appointee would do, as long its an institutionalised setup where the expertise/experience doesnt go with the incumbent.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Feb 2009 19:39

They wanted to have the ARC under itslef, RAW refused, and then hit back by blocking NTRO's plans to acquire a fleet of Gulfstreams fitted out with Israeli sensors.

Errr...did RAW atleast go ahead and purchase those assets or just felt happy at blocking NTRO and left it at that?

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 19 Feb 2009 20:33

somnath wrote: Unfortunately, things are not so elegantly simple. Proliferation of intel organisations is a feature of alll "normal" countries. Part of the reason is democracies dont like to have one "all encompassing" intel setup is to prevent rise of potential frankensteins. See the US (CIA, DIA, FBI, DEA, NSA etc etc), or UK (MI5, MI6, MI etc).

Err.. In the case of UK it is elegantly simple. So is for Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin ... _community

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_In ... _Community

But in the case of US it is freakingly 16 organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... _Community

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 19 Feb 2009 20:57

k prasad wrote:A few reasons Kiran:

NTRO was formed after the Kargil report on intell failure, esp by RAW and DIA....

A dedicated distinction for different agencies is dangerous and will not work... each agency should have a mandate of areal jurisdiction, but must be given full freedom to choose their tools and techniques without interference... an op may require HUMINT, COMINT and IMINT, but if 3 different organizations are involved, it makes the op less secure, more difficult and more prone to failure.

A dedicated feeder organization leads to:

1. Better coordination - since they dont do any ops, they dont have anything to gain by hiding info or not sharing it
2. Better focus - all funds can be used for TECHINT only, rather having it fritter away
3. Manpower - specific and experienced manpower can be recruited for that, rather than having RAS or UPSC recruitments.

Also, what you propose is good, but in practise, it is failing for human reasons... so they have decided for an out of box solution to permanently end it. Whether it works is again a human matter.

I understand Prasad. But unlike US, India does not have large coffers to fund duplication of capabilities. With regard to the bolded part, I agree with your argument. But if there are greater levels of co-operation, what you state is possible within the confines of what I talked about.

In every intel organization the analysis arm is not aware of the sources and methodologies of their operational arm. The same operational security procedures can be implemented between organizations.

What I am talking about is something similar to horizontal vertical concept in the IT industry (using this example because this is what I am exposed to). So RAW/ IB/ DIA forms the horizontals providing resources for intel collection. And geographical desks form the verticals.

Each agency should be given the free hand for intel analysis, and request for support from other agncies.

I know it sounds utopian. But if there is a strong mandate and roles/expectations set, will be difficult for any agency to not follow irrespective of the turf wars.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Feb 2009 09:27

Link

Thirty years after the Iranian revolution, it still remains a mystery how the Americans, despite their close links with the Shah’s regime and an elaborate intelligence network in the country, got it so wrong in the months leading up to the collapse of his regime in February 1979. There are said to be few parallels of U.S. intelligence failure on such a colossal scale.

Uncanny similarity with the current situation our agencies are in w.r.t predicting events in countries of interest.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 20 Feb 2009 10:57

To further buttress my point; in US, National Reconnaissance Office started out as a 'feeder agency' similar to NTRO what is talked about. It was a JV between CIA and USAF. Overtime it became a behemoth of its own with DoD wielding increasing influence. Finally it moved over to the DoD camp and CIA started off with their own Photo Reconnaissance efforts using UAVs,etc.

Heck, IMINT is covered by 2 agencies, NRO for collection and NGA for analysis.

Another example of a 'feeder agency' getting a life of its own is NSA. Again same story as above. There was a time when CIA Director had operational control of it. Now the NSA Director is on an equal footing with the CIA Director.

Trivia: Did you know the spy plane SR-71 was made of titanium sourced from USSR?

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 20 Feb 2009 11:46

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?211573

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Feb 2009 13:14

Interesting news snippets

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nypds ... ce/424741/

I wonder how they manage it - now NYPD intel agents with CIA and FBI and DIA stomping around the Middle East! Must say hats off to their coordination efforts - obviously they are succeeding despite all the confusion!

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 20 Feb 2009 22:35

Shocking revelation

2004: Asia's biggest arms haul meant for ULFA | Khaleda Zia Govt. ministers involved
Dhaka (Bangladesh): On April 3, 2004 a jetty of the Chittagong Urea Fertiliser Limited (CULF) was where the biggest arms haul in Bangladesh's history took place.

Ten trucks were loaded with 2,000 assault rifles, including AK 47, AK 56, 150 T-69 rocket-propelled grenade launchers, 27,000 grenades made by ARGES and 11,39,000 bullets.

Now, a CNN-IBN investigation has revealed that the arms were not destined for any Bangladeshi terror group. It was in fact coming for the Indian militant group, United Liberation Front of Assam (ULFA) whose commander-in-chief Paresh Barua had received the consignment at the Chittagong port.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 21 Feb 2009 00:45

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2 .

RAW official likely to be sacked

Vijay Thakur
NEW DELHI, Feb. 19:

The Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) is likely to dismiss its senior director, Dr Adipalli Sankara Narayana Rao, who was arrested by the CBI while allegedly accepting a bribe of Rs 1 lakh from a Chennai-based telecom company.
Dr Rao, who has a doctorate in physics and is a senior scientist in RAW, was a member of the technical evaluation committee (TEC) of DRDO and was due for promotion as joint secretary.
According to sources, the RAW chief has already moved a file recommending dismissal of Dr Rao under Section 311 (2) (b) of the Indian Constitution. A final announcement is likely to be made in the next two weeks.
Dr Rao was arrested on 2 February, after the CBI revealed to the RAW top brass telephonic conversations he had with a representative of the telecom company demanding a bribe of Rs 8 lakh for clearing an export license for the firm. The technical evaluation committee of DRDO attached to the defence ministry is assigned the task of clearance of export of some scientific equipment to foreign countries. Other representatives on this committee are from the defence ministry, home ministry, Intelligence Bureau and the CBI in addition to RAW.
The Chennai-based company had complained to CBI following which the agency tapped mobile and landline telephone conversations of Dr Rao to verify the charges. The CBI was then convinced and laid a trap for Dr Rao after RAW gave its green signal,
RAW has been in the dock earlier too when one of its deputy secretaries was caught in a scandal with a prostitute in Beijing and was ultimately sacked from service.

VK Singh, in his book "India's External Intelligence", had repeatedly stressed the fact that something very fishy was on in R&AW's technical cadres. He exposed the fact that a firm called Rohde & Schwartz was being favoured, and was raising quotations and bills hundreds of times what could be found on the open market. His views were apparently ignored. It seems that his assessment of the R&AW's technical cadres was correct.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 21 Feb 2009 14:38

ASPuar wrote:VK Singh, in his book "India's External Intelligence", had repeatedly stressed the fact that something very fishy was on in R&AW's technical cadres. He exposed the fact that a firm called Rohde & Schwartz was being favoured, and was raising quotations and bills hundreds of times what could be found on the open market. His views were apparently ignored. It seems that his assessment of the R&AW's technical cadres was correct.

Actually, Rohde and Schwartz is a very popular company for electronics equipment... And lets not jump the gun here. These equipment dont come cheap (a decent spectrum analyzer will set you back by at least 40 lakhs). However, if there has been some misappropriation, it is indeed alarming...

on a side note, I wonder if that is why the TECHINT was taken away from RAW and given to another organization.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 21 Feb 2009 17:32

Major General VK Singh is a Signals engineer, with 36 years experience, and sufficient dealing with R&S, and access, as a Jt Secy at R&AW, and also having served in the Army Directorate of SigInt, to comparitive prices.

After a detailed analysis, he saw fit to bring this to the attention of the highest levels. I suspect that he had examined the issue carefully before sticking out his official neck on it.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Feb 2009 17:50

Gen VK singh's book has some very interesting nuggets of info..Including the whole mess made out of comunication equipment imported by SPG for the PM's security! Some of his views are of course extremely personal, and can be questioned (for example, his opposition to making public of the conversation of Gen Musharraf during Kargil)....

But in la affaire Narayana Rao, what kind of technical equipment does RAW use that are "exported"? So is there is an internal/DRDO setup developing RAW specific equipment? Or was he doing something else undercover? Dr Santhanam too once had a long stint in the RAW - working to procure various sensitive tech from abroad using the RAW's budgets as cover..

We need to take these "intel bustups" a little sceptically. Many a time, there is a very fine dividing line between the illegal and what was a genuine undercover ops gone wrong. The case of Rattan Sehgal (RAW again) is moot..So is the case of the two people (inclidding a computer analyst) recently charged of spying in the NSCS....

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 21 Feb 2009 18:25

somnath wrote:Gen VK singh's book has some very interesting nuggets of info..Including the whole mess made out of comunication equipment imported by SPG for the PM's security! Some of his views are of course extremely personal, and can be questioned (for example, his opposition to making public of the conversation of Gen Musharraf during Kargil)....

Ah, so youve read it, despite the ban! This ban has to be taken with a pinch of salt... Ive seen it displayed in many stores still. His views on the Mushy conversation, of course, arise out of his concern for a SigInt source being blown...

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 21 Feb 2009 18:31

somnath wrote:
We need to take these "intel bustups" a little sceptically. Many a time, there is a very fine dividing line between the illegal and what was a genuine undercover ops gone wrong. The case of Rattan Sehgal (RAW again) is moot..So is the case of the two people (inclidding a computer analyst) recently charged of spying in the NSCS....

Seems to me that a CBI enquiry into a corruption case, would probably never have happened if it was a genuine undercover deal.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 21 Feb 2009 19:25

^^^
I dont know anything beyond the media reports on the N Rao case - and it might well be true that there is a genuine case here. Only point being that the media is very short minded, and doesnt reflect upon cases when the sensation value is lost - and in intel there are too many grey shades...

And yes, the book was available for a long time even in some of the bigger shops, not to mention the DN Road street bookwallas..

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Feb 2009 21:55

ASPuar wrote: Seems to me that a CBI enquiry into a corruption case, would probably never have happened if it was a genuine undercover deal.

We have had police busting undercover operatives like the J&K policeman for his SIMs after 26/11 or the Chotta Rajan gangster who had been recruited by IB to be sent to Pak/ME to have a few hits on the D-gang and was arrested while enroute to the airport due to communication gap between agencies.

Nothing can be ruled out in these intel agency related cases.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 22 Feb 2009 01:02

Seems like MKA has fallen out of favor with Home Minister Chidambaram
Govt quietly drops plans for NSA-led taskforce

Though all his suggestions which were to be taken up for consideration under the task force are being followed by the home ministry, the way it is being done is different from what he had proposed during his address to police chiefs in a conference on November 23 last year — an indication of Narayanan's declining stock post 26/11.

Instead of having such an NSA-led task force, the home ministry has been working on both short-term and long-term plans where, in the changed scenario post-Mumbai terror attack, it is home minister P Chidambaram who has been at the helm of affairs with Narayanan only playing second fiddle.

Confirming that the task force has not been constituted, PM's media advisor Deepak Sandhu said: "The plan was slightly altered in the changed circumstances after the Mumbai terror attack. Both the home minister and the NSA have been jointly working on what the PM had suggested. Both of them are meeting on a daily basis to discuss crucial issues."

The proposal was, however, dropped when Chidambaram took over as the home minister post 26/11. One of the first decisions Chidambaram took after taking over as home minister was to ask Narayanan and the RAW chief to be present in North Block during the daily intelligence briefing against the earlier practice of only IB director briefing the home minister.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2009 06:51

The proposal was, however, dropped when Chidambaram took over as the home minister post 26/11. One of the first decisions Chidambaram took after taking over as home minister was to ask Narayanan and the RAW chief to be present in North Block during the daily intelligence briefing against the earlier practice of only IB director briefing the home minister.

Whats the big deal here. PC now is making sure that the NSA and RAW are also getting the sacred poop (classified waste) from the IB so that they cant claim they were not in the loop.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Feb 2009 10:01

sum wrote: the Chotta Rajan gangster who had been recruited by IB to be sent to Pak/ME to have a few hits on the D-gang and was arrested while enroute to the airport due to communication gap between agencies.

Sum , do you have more information on this case ?

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Feb 2009 10:29

Austin wrote:
sum wrote: the Chotta Rajan gangster who had been recruited by IB to be sent to Pak/ME to have a few hits on the D-gang and was arrested while enroute to the airport due to communication gap between agencies.
Sum , do you have more information on this case ?

It was an interesting one. Apparently we had finally found someone (a gangster himself) who would infiltrate one of Dawood's parties in Dubai and kill him there. He was being escorted (to the airport, as far as I remember) by none other than Ajit Doval, who had recently retired from IB then. Someone tipped off the Mumbai Police (rumour is someone in the D-payrolls in the police), and the car carryng the gangster and Doval was intercepted by the police. The cover was obviously blown and the operation aborted...

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Feb 2009 11:43

Somnath-ji,
Thanks for backing me up since details were quite hazy and only few tit-bits appeared spread across obscure publications.

AFAIK, the intercepted car had even IB guys onboard(not sure if Doval sahib himself was there) but the ham-headed interception party turned a deaf ear to the protests of the IB guys of calling up higher ups before creating a scene. (similar to the recent SIM card case in WB involving the JKP constable)

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 23 Feb 2009 11:49

Chhota Rajan's aides held

This was the news article. TOI(let) had mentioned Shri. Doval relating to this. IB higher-ups were said to be pissed and had met RR Patil, then HM in Mah. Govt, to express displeasure and hand over some details about the links of some cops to D-company. I haven't had any luck finding the TOI article and the rest is from memory. I have a hunch that Pradeep Sharma's sacking was somewhow tied into this...again just my guess, no proof to back it up.

Added later: Another article on this incident

Found the TOI article, actually three of them:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 167755.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 170184.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 173117.cms

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Feb 2009 12:00

http://ajitdoval.blogspot.com/

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Feb 2009 12:05

Rahul M wrote:http://ajitdoval.blogspot.com/

Interesting to see that one of our living crown jewels, Dovil sir is being interviewed by Harinder Baweja, the $#%^ who said on air (NDTV) that muslims are so badly treated in India that if she was a muslim, she would have taken up arms long time ago.

A traitor interviewing a patriot of the highest order!!!!

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 23 Feb 2009 12:15

Link

.....It was not possible for anybody else to have contacted us while we were in midair. It’s strange but true that the Prime Minister of India would be incommunicado while on a flight because neither the ageing IAF Boeings nor the Air India Jumbos, used for official travel abroad, had satellite phone facilities......

it is kind of strange if PM of india really can not communicate to ground while airbore....

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 23 Feb 2009 12:23

^ Kobe-san, it is sad but true, atleast till about 5 years ago. There were talks of getting the secure comm facilities for the VVIP transport aircraft but never really heard much about it afterwards..maybe good or bad. Maybe others with more public domain info can help.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 23 Feb 2009 12:59

Interesting. The great Indian media and liberal elite is carrying out Pakistan and Saudi Arabia's agenda by repeatedly tom-tomming the GUjarat riots, and downplaying the fact that Hindus died first, and died too. Additionally, they are subverting moderate Indian muslims by championing radical foreign Islam's cause.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 171018.cms

Modi's new admirer: Ahmedabad's Imam

23 Feb 2009, 0309 hrs IST, Saeed Khan , TNN
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:

AHMEDABAD: Mufti Shabbir Ahmed Siddiqui, the Imam of Ahmedabad's biggest mosque, has found himself alone among the city's Muslim clerics. What
has landed the 52-year-old Imam in trouble in his own community is his admiration for Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi.

Siddiqui, a native of Sirsa in Bihar, has been living in Ahmedabad since 1982. The hardliners in the community feel he is soft on the state government with which he has been building bridges in turbulent times.

But Siddiqui is unabashed about his admiration for the CM and would like Modi, already popular among Shia muslims, to gain acceptance among the Sunnis too. The Jama Masjid Imam calls the 2002 riots an "atrocity'' but adds that the projection of the riots was "much graver'' than what had actually happened. "The time has come now to move on. It is seven years since the riots and people have already started forgetting what had happened,'' he told TOI.

The Imam says Modi has ensured peace after 2002 and feels the chief minister has "lived up to the expectations''. "Muslims too have an opportunity to prosper in the peaceful environment that the Modi government has created. Modi has provided an atmosphere which is conducive for those who want to do business in Gujarat,'' he says.

According to Siddiqui, Modi does not need Muslim votes to win the elections. It is up to the Muslims to make friends with the chief minister, he says. "Islam
has in the past befriended even bigger fundamentalists,'' he argues, adding Muslims must appreciate the performance of the CM, "if he is good''.

He is also happy that the spread of the hardliner Tablighis in Gujarat, who have created numerous problems for him in recent years, has been checked by the Modi government by blocking the influx of foreign funds through `hawala'. He says his battle with the Tabhlighis for the control of mosques across Gujarat would be won only if the flow of funds from abroad is stopped.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 24 Feb 2009 19:20

MPs' panel favours setting up federal intelligence agency

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Feb 2009 21:57

Gawd,
Not another new agency,please!!!!

Reform the existing or disband current ones before creating another bureaucratic nightmare.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 24 Feb 2009 22:15

^^^

Something tells me this is going to be like the DNI setup in US. As mentioned in that link to bring all agencies under it. This gains further strength from certain calls we hear of studying why US didnt have one terror strike after 9/11.

Little does Massa have a situation of jehadis in 1000s sitting right across their border.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Feb 2009 22:18

gentlemen, time has come for India to set up intelligence agencies utilising all the letters in the english alphabet, a mere one or two is not enough.
who knows, may be one would work !

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 24 Feb 2009 22:18

Well, that would surely beat Massa having the record of most intel agencies under its belt.

Rahul M wrote:gentlemen, time has come for India to set up intelligence agencies utilising all the letters in the english alphabet, a mere one or two is not enough.
who knows, may be one would work !

Until creation of RAW, IB handled everything, including field intelligence. Blast from the past?!