Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 00:46

Lahore Blast:
The whole damn building has come down. Some report says there were possibly 70 people inside.

What are the chances that people are coming out alive out of this?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 Mar 2010 00:48

Gagan wrote:
tsriram wrote:The amount of explosives seems really high. 600 kgs of explosives would have created a massive dhamaka! How did they transport so much. Its more than half a ton!
On a little truck / SUV

thanks!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 01:03

Another view (from csmonitor)

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 09 Mar 2010 01:06

^
OMG! Suarco has found water on the moon after Big Bang

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 09 Mar 2010 01:16

OOooooohhhh!! What a day? I am vacationing today to relax and this news.

Pasthuns are killing Panjabis left and right. Where is the retaliation?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 09 Mar 2010 01:28

shaardula wrote:
no i am earnest in asking this question,if TSP gives up terror, and concentrates on the people it already has under governance, who is going to benefit? the 16-17 crore people already under pakistani rule one would guess. but they are not bringing any statistics of a proven superior governance to the table are they?
.

Shaardula,

We see this truth as self evident. If TSP gave up terrorism and hostility to India the 16-17 crore citizens of Pakistan would benefit enormously... except for the TSPA and invested RAPE class who would stand to lose because their entire raison d'etre is hostility towards India. Not Pakistan's raison d'etre... the TSPA's and RAPE's.

No doubt some in Pakistan see this truth as self evident, too.

The questions that remain are:

1) How many of those in Pakistan see this truth as self evident? As opposed to those who are either invested in hostility towards India for reasons of personal/class gain, or Jihadized into hostility against India, or simply too wretched to care?

2) What positions do these cognizant groups occupy in Pakistani society, and is there any chance of them changing the status quo of TSPA dominance within Pakistan?

3) Even if these groups had the means/opportunity to organize into a constituency that had a chance of changing the status quo, what are the factors stacked against them? The programming of the public by Jihadi tanzeems is one factor we've always concentrated on at BRF. But the role of TSPA's 3.5 friends in maintaining this status quo is something that may need more examination than we have hitherto focused on, IMHO.

4) We hear that Pakistanis, by and large, are against the US. An almost unspoken assumption we make is that this has to do with jihadization of the Pakistani public at large, and issues such as Israel/Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. But how much of the rage of Pakistanis against the US is in fact directed at the US' role in maintaining the TSPA dominance status-quo for the past sixty years? This is quite another thing isn't it?

5) Which is worse from our point of view... the Jihadis, or TSPA's 3.5 friends? Could we live with a Pakistan that was Jihadized up the wazoo but refused access/GUBO to the TSPA's 3.5 friends and thus commuted the dominance of TSPA/RAPE over Paki society? Or is a Musharraf/Kiyani type Pakistan preferable... one where the TSPA uses some Jihadis against India while reaping aid from the 3.5 friends for checking other Jihadis?

6) So far we generally think of a Pakistan in Jihadi hands as the worst possible outcome for India. But Pak nukes in Taliban/Tanzeem hands are a problem for the *WEST*. Pak nukes are already in the hands of very very anti-India players in Pakistan... the TSPA/RAPE. However Jihadized the TSPA/RAPE's replacement as a ruling class, would they really be more anti-India or more likely to use nukes against India than the TSPA/RAPE? NB: many of the TSPA/RAPE brass have assets stashed in the West and can flee in the aftermath of a nuclear war, so they would have less to lose from such a war against India than a Jihadi regime which would have to live with the aftermath.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 01:42

Sorry if already posted ... from Paki blogs/ newspapers etc...
Shoaib Cheema (Lashkar-e-Jhangvi ) was held SIA building ....
(More at:
Banned outfit possibly behind Lahore blast

Maulana Israr's Madrassa (Tanzeem-e-islami) is right next - he has been injured/killed)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 01:57

NSFW: A documentary on Heera Mandi, Lahore.
Quite interesting from a intellectual point of view. Some very frank discussion going on.
A fair understanding or urdu might be considered to be a prerequisite to fully understand and absorb what is being said.

Several code words are revealed. Words which people who speak Punjabi and Urdu might be mystified by are explained.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay3XXro8fhw
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5PgGEcv50
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNiFt3Fo1uY Most khatarnak episode.
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpoS15So0W4
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3tCp0Bkho
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4GK6SpPv74

One shocking revelation made in the last one minute of part 5.
Most film stars and singers in pakistan have been members of this oldest profession in Pakistan. Amongst the few that are named are, one Ms Zeba - the older Zeba of the '60s and '70s (Not Zeba Bakhtiyar or Henna fame), one Ms Noor Jehan - Malika-e-tarannum (Who was reputed to be giving close company to Gen. Yahya Khan during the 71 imbroglio)

Moderators might review if this is suitable for the TSP thread.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 09 Mar 2010 03:19

^^^ i have known expat paquis frequently refer to any media active woman as a wh@re as a matter of course. serious dark ages mindset

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 09 Mar 2010 04:09

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ i have known expat paquis frequently refer to any media active woman as a wh@re as a matter of course. serious dark ages mindset

Fundamentalist attitude makes them look at every woman that way. Even fundamentalist chirstian also look at it the same way

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 05:46

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ i have known expat paquis frequently refer to any media active woman as a wh@re as a matter of course. serious dark ages mindset

Exactly my feeling when I saw this documentary. You will see examples everywhere amongst the pakistanis.
One example is this gentleman. See how he talks of Rani Mukherjee in less than acceptable terms. See the clip @ 3:50 onwards . Waise the whole clip is worthy of being seen again and again. (This was posted on BRF by some BRFite many moons ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW7w8g_FIuw
.

If you'll recall, during the Aman Ki Asha when Indian artists went to Lahore, you'll recall the pictures of a Sadhvi, who was singing bangla song, amongst many other stage performers. The men were hungrily leering at her.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 09 Mar 2010 05:51

Wealth and properties of Shahbaz Sharif

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Mar 2010 05:59

Punjabi Taliban avenge Qari Zafar's death by bombing Lahore's Police unit

Qari Zafar was under the custody of Punjab’s Special Investigation Unit but escaped in October 2007. Qari Zafar was the mastermind of attacks on a Special Investigation Unit (SIU) office in Model Town Lahore earlier. No wonder, his followers/admirers chose to attack the same unit after the Qari's recent death.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 06:24

Acharya wrote:... Even fundamentalist chirstian also look at it the same way [Reference was previous ...frequently refer to any media active woman as a wh@re ]

Excuse me, Sir but isn't this gross generalization a little lame? I can understand the relevance of Pakis and their habits here but finding any excuse to take a dig at other than your religion is way off topic here. There is not even a qualifier here (that is, it is your opinion or such - neither you present any source or basis of your conclusion). Some will call it a very bigoted dig at other religion which is not yours.

Please edit it out, and stop this in future.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 06:47

Interesting new group and its website:
Zaid Hamid Exposition: Exposing & Refuting the cult of a False Prophet

Dr Israr Ahmed’s Tanzeem-i-Islami Issues a 24 Hour Ultimatum to Zaid Hamid

We have learned from reliable sources that Dr Israr Ahmed’s organization Tanzeem-i-Islami has given a 24 hour ultimatum to Zaid Hamid.

According to reports a four member delegation of Tanzeem-i-Islami went to visit Zaid Hamid in his office. The delegation has asked Zaid Hamid to repent his past and denounce his association with Yusuf Kazab. The delegation further informed Zaid Hamid, that a failure to issue a categorical bar’aat from Yusuf Kazab within 24 hours would force Tanzeem-i-Islami to decide their own course of action.

Source: Engr. Naveed, Ameer Tanzeem-i-Islami, Karachi

On a serious note. Dr Israr Ahmed is no lightweight. He is frequently seen on Pakistani TV channels.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 06:52

Amber G. wrote:On Pak Technology front:
Ban on import of used computers under study
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m237 ... 10_LHR.jpg

From the news item: (Points to remember and archive) Also asking "What is middle class" - not an answer - but a pointer.

It must be kept in mind that a common man cannot afford to buy a new computer for Rs40,000. There are some 14,00,000 computers in Pakistan, of which 60 per cent are used/old computers, 24 per cent internationally assembled new computers while 16 per cent are locally assembled new computers.

For the necessary comparison
http://www.idcindia.com/press/Jun12.html

India PC installed base tops 22 million; Notebook PC shipments show significant growth,
capturing 20% of the total Client PC market in FY 07 but ‘we still have miles to go’: says IDC

The installed base of computers in India is 30 times larger. Is a PC a "middle class" acquisition in India India? In Pakistan?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 09 Mar 2010 06:54

Hmmm,
Dr Israr Ahmed talks about his origins

Only the first few minutes are relevant, where he talks of his family's origins from India in 1857.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zslJOR_aE

If you'll remember, Israr Ahmed used to be a regular fixture on PTV. Masood Azhar right after his exchange after the IC-814 hijack was seen on PTV listening to Israr Ahmed's discourse on Jihad.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 09 Mar 2010 07:00

I am going to miss Zaid gand*. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. This guy is running out of places to hide.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 07:00

Amber G. wrote:Another view (from csmonitor)
Click here to see pool of water in bomb crater

Ah the forensic hosing down has been done..

Pakistanis are a hundred times better than Indians You gotta give it to them - no matter how reluctant you may feel about that. Recall that within 6 hours of the blast we had news that the Pakis had confirmed the nature of the explosive. Indian Sakharams are so slow. After the Pune blast it was several days before the forensic team doing slow Hindu rate of growth tests found out what explosives were used. The Pakis knew within hours and hosed the place down. Any good collector of forensic evidence will know that washing and cleaning the crime scene is essential before inviting Scotland Yard, who otherwise might laugh at Sauth Asians.

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 09 Mar 2010 07:20

The trick is to not allow any group to dominate at all. If the poor masses revolt and succeed in throwing out the Rape/PA special class, they would resuccitate the anti-India/anti-Hindu bogeyman again under different guise sometime in the future.

Just like the USA is trying to maintain a military balance between India and Pak-Is-Satan, some sort of action must be implemented in such a way that neither the poor masses nor the Rape/PA have dominance.

Pakis being Pakis, if the two competing sides were kept at near equilibrium, they would perpetually be at each others throats. Pakis busy killing Pakis, will be too busy to bother the Hindus.

Not many Pakis may have TV sets but I am sure many millions more Pakis must own a radio set. After all one radio set is good enough to hold sway a couple of dozen guilible Pakis.

When the Bolsheviks stormed the Winter Palace, their number was so small compared to the number of people who stormed the palace. To swell their ranks, the Bolsheviks gathered up bums, drunks, homeless men, street vagrants and what not and promised them that there would be fountains of vodka and liquor for free. The only way to get it is to storm the palace. The rest is history.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Mar 2010 07:23

Gagan wrote:Lahore Blast:
The whole damn building has come down. Some report says there were possibly 70 people inside. ................. {Image Snipped}

What are the chances that people are coming out alive out of this?

Apparently pretty good. The highest death toll figure I have come across is 15.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 07:29

arun wrote: Apparently pretty good. The highest death toll figure I have come across is 15.

If Paki army biggies have been killed they will lie about the numbers anyway. Expect a revenge bombing against someone..

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 09 Mar 2010 07:43

asprinzl wrote:Not many Pakis may have TV sets but I am sure many millions more Pakis must own a radio set. After all one radio set is good enough to hold sway a couple of dozen guilible Pakis.

I don't know is 10 million families 'not many'? That was the estimate of the no. of TV *households* in 2000-2002. More recent estimates are in the 16 million household range.

Somehow I don't think the majority of these are generals, feudal landlords and big business owners.

These people are a lot harder for the ruling establishment to ignore than rural landless labourers (until the Pakiban shows up of course). The PA's broader legitimacy depends on these people believing that the PA protects them and protects Pakistan, not just the general officer corps.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Mar 2010 07:52

Gagan wrote:Hmmm,
Dr Israr Ahmed talks about his origins Only the first few minutes are relevant, where he talks of his family's origins from India in 1857.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zslJOR_aE
If you'll remember, Israr Ahmed used to be a regular fixture on PTV. Masood Azhar right after his exchange after the IC-814 hijack was seen on PTV listening to Israr Ahmed's discourse on Jihad.

Week, afraid of sword , Converts under duress, Ajalaf pacqui always trace ther ancestory to high Hindu khandan. Surprise part is he deny hiis ancestor being graced and blessed by Arabic or Persian Worm donor. Wow, onlee Pacqui can produce Matrick Pass Dr and that too out of Hissar. Send the man to Nazariye Pacqistan Madirassa for learning.
Gagan, great going in shedding light on Paki Dark Musharraf Personas.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 08:06

Just recording here the sheer lunacy of Punjab Province Law Minister Rana Sanaullah who blames Raw: (and of course Israel too)
(It might be PDM who also puts Interior Minister Rehman Malik talking about "Indian signature")

Link: http://beta.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 218003.ece

A Pakistani Provincial Minister on Monday alleged that India’s RAW was involved in the suspected suicide car bomb attack in Lahore, even as federal Interior Minister Rehman Malik claimed “signatures of India” were there in weapons seized from militants in the tribal areas.

Punjab Province Law Minister Rana Sanaullah alleged that India’s Research and Analysis Wing intelligence agency was involved in Monday’s suspected suicide car bomb attack on a special investigation unit that killed 12 people.

“Besides other neighbouring countries, India’s RAW agency is also involved. Israel and other countries could also be involved,” he told reporters in Lahore.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 08:11

Johann wrote: I don't know is 10 million families 'not many'? That was the estimate of the no. of TV *households* in 2000-2002. More recent estimates are in the 16 million household range.

Somehow I don't think the majority of these are generals, feudal landlords and big business owners.

Johann - what you say i may not be wrong (although I obtained different figures from yours) - but when you have such a minuscule number of TV sets you have to ask who are the first set of people who are likely to own TV sets. Going back to stats of who is wealthy in Pakistan and who owns land - you find that 5% of Pakistanis are in that group.

Now check the percentages

5% of Pakistanis = 5% of 165 million = about 8 million. Assume 4 viewers per TV - 32 million (20%)

That leaves another 8 million to be shared by the remaining 95% of Pakistan assuming only one TV per

So at least half the TV sets in Pakistan are owned by the wealthiest.

30% of Pakistan is absolutely poor, mostly rural
50% are poor some or most of the time.
50% of all TV sets are hogged by the top 5% - the landowning feudals.

That leaves 8 million TV sets possibly being viewed by about 40 million people - assuming that the "recent figures" you quoted are accurate and I have my doubts about that. Will get back on that issue.

So TV is unlikely to be directly reaching 50% of Pakistan's population. Now 85 million is not a small number. Private TV feeds people who pay for programs via ads and Pakis get to see the Zaid Hamids and other people they want to see.

Gallup polls are made for people who pay. Nobody is polling those who don't pay and to whom gallup is not given access. It is easy to talk about possible inflated numbers because the cost per ad of TV goes up if you can claim that you have more viewers. It is important to look at figures obtained by indirect means as a corroboration. Paki RAPE are inveterate liars and no single statistic is likely to be wholly true. Recall that even population figures are a rough estimate. No census has been held for over a decade.

Pakistanis biggest bluff has always been to hide its problems and highlight what the Paki rich feel should be seen by the world. Very little that is negative comes out of Pakistan.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Mar 2010 08:14

Mahendra wrote:^
OMG! Suarco has found water on the moon after Big Bang

Na , Dam the water , this is the trailer of future sangam of INDUS, Chenab and Jehlum on Aug14,2020.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Mar 2010 08:15

^^^ What's the point in having a tv if there's no power, hainji??

Diesel genset is also a must alongwith tv only. TSPA strategically cuts power to restless urban zones during sensitive tv episode airings, perhaps?

Am told load shedding is like 8-12 hrs a day summertime in urban pak and upto 16hrs a day in semi-urban pak. Close to 24 hrs load shedding i the deep rurals, am told....

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 08:25

shiv wrote: Ah the forensic hosing down has been done..

Also, Shivji for your interest - I think it is another data point and chance for Nrao to validate his yield calculations.

Please note: No retarc, depth 3.2 meter ...taking some rough guess for Youngs modulus of Rocks in Model town it is about 2 gigajoules! (2,000,000,000 joules!)
(The Energy is enough to power about 10,000 TV's for an hour so that could also answer:
"hat's the point in having a tv if there's no power, hainji?? "

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 08:28

A_Gupta wrote:Another link:

http://atac.casbaa.com/country_pakistan.aspx

TV viewership has undergone an amazing transformation since the arrival of satellite TV and is currently available in about 45% of all TV homes. Channels are accessed mainly via cable operators at a relatively low cost. In the past five years, TV viewing has risen considerably and varies dramatically by region. Increased availability at a relatively low cost has also led to higher consumption of satellite channels of both local and international origin. Satellite TV is now available to 38 million people across the country with STAR Plus and PTV leading the pack.

Pakistan Actual
Population 164,223,500
Total Homes 24,150,515
Household Size 6.8
TV Homes 16,422,350 (68%)
Multichannel Homes 7,390,058 (45%)
Internet Users 18,500,000 (11%)

Source: CASBAA, Gallup Pakistan, Internet World Statistics (as of September 2009)

These statitstics sound like a carefully choreographed bluff to allow TV channels to make money from TV advertisers.

Pakistan population is "164,223,500"?

This is an extrapolation from the last known accurate figures and the last known rate of increase of the population.

Household size 6.8? that is the average for all of Pakistan. It says nothing about rural or urban, or wealthy or poor.

Now they have divided estimated total population by estimated family size to arrive at a figure of number of homes. They have used the estimate number of TV sets to calculate number of TV homes. And that number of TV homes has once again been multiplied by 6.8 to get "viewership" (use a calculator - you will know what I mean

)

This is fudging of the first order. Only in Pakistan..

We really should not be falling for such open bluffing.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 08:43

Shivji - wrt to TV's another interesting data point is to check out deaf and dumb forum - The abduls in Lahore were confused - The messages started as

I've heard a blast near my House (Faisal Town). The shock waves were powerful. I thought it earth quack. Any with any news? I dont have TV right now and net shows nothing yet...

to

Damn, same here man i wokeup cuz of this. ...I can see a mushroom of white smoke from my house.

to

Our house is in Gulberg 3 near Liberty Market and my dad said that the shock waves were pretty powerful...Windows started to bang...

It goes on for quite a while
till some one who identifies as one from India tells them news.. (Soon after that, the pakis who initially were saying "Heard that it is near FIA or ISI office...I am not 100 percent positive..." becomes "100 % sure that it is Raw"

(One really has to see it to believe it!)
In any case it looks like many who had Internet did not have TV (or power to run TV) ...

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Mar 2010 08:53

Amber G. wrote:Just recording here the sheer lunacy of Punjab Province Law Minister Rana Sanaullah who blames Raw: (and of course Israel too)
(It might be PDM who also puts Interior Minister Rehman Malik talking about "Indian signature")

Link: http://beta.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 218003.ece

.................. {Snipped}[/i}

Rana Sanaullah may be Punjab Province Law Minister but that does not stop him from associating with Islamic Jihadi terrorist outfits like the Sipah-i-Sahaba (SSP). Not just a lunatic but a Jihadi lunatic:

Editorial: Closet Taliban?

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 09 Mar 2010 09:04

Managing India's image in Af-Pak Ajai Shukla writes.

New Delhi talks to Islamabad, but India remains disengaged from the real Pakistan.
So, which Pakistani constituency should India address?

Pakistan’s liberal fringe, an ineffectual menage of rights activists, academics, authors, poets and members of the English media. Pleasant individuals for the most part, they have served Pakistan well by masking a deeply regressive society with a patina of western-style modernity. But they have notably failed in bringing change to Pakistan and, because so few are listening to them, are granted their little space in society.

And then, he goes out to take a stance. Something along what has been said on this board.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Mar 2010 09:13

Gagan wrote:Hmmm, Dr Israr Ahmed talks about his origins

Agarwal = Rajput? The pakis so badly want to be of Rajput origin, its laughable.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Mar 2010 09:17

shaardula wrote:In any talk with TSP, what is it exactly that the TSP is bringing to the table ?

1. A loaded gun, generally pointed to his own head
2. A begging bowl
3. A wet towel

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2010 09:19

anupmisra wrote:
Gagan wrote:Hmmm, Dr Israr Ahmed talks about his origins
Agarwal = Rajput? The pakis so badly want to be of Rajput origin, its laughable.

If not Rajput they all are Brahmins.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 09:36

Yet another source (from 2002) that seems more concerned about accuracy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/20688082/PAKISTAN-Media-Scene

Widely Used Media in Pakistan
1. T.V 2. Print 3. Outdoor 4. Radio 5. Cinema 6. Internet

Media in Pakistan
Following are independent statistics on Media in Pakistan for 2002-2003, that includes print, electronic and broadcast.

Source Gallup Pakistan, the Pakistan affiliate of Gallup International.

Television

TV Ownership in Pakistan • 5 million urban TV homes • 5 million rural TV homes • 10 million TV homes in the country (Since some TV homes have more than one TV set, the total number of TVs can be estimated to be 11 million)
Source Gallup Pakistan, the Pakistan affiliate of Gallup International.

TV Viewer ship • Urban areas: 69% • Rural areas: 37% • Total: ~ 40 million Total TV Viewers (including regular and casual viewers and those who view from own homes or public place /neighbors / friends)
Source Gallup Pakistan, the Pakistan affiliate of Gallup International.

Cable and Satellite Penetration • Among urban TV viewers 42% • Among rural TV viewers 16% • Among all Pakistan TV viewers 29%

Source Gallup Pakistan, the Pakistan affiliate of Gallup International.

Even if the number of TV sets has gone up from 10 to 16 million in Pakistan one gets a figure of about 80 million Pakis with no TV and maybe 100 million with no satellite TV. This latter group is the "fced up Pakistan" that we need to look at as a possible pointer to the future. . They are largely rural, very poor, mostly landless, a high proportion are homeless, illiterate, do not know anything about birth control and unkil does not give a damn for them

Pakistan's population doubling time is calculated to be 33 years and that dated back to about 2002. By 2035 we should see a Pakistan of about 300 million - with a disproportionate increase in the worst off - who actually have family sizes of 8 per household. Most such screwed up people tend not to become violent because they will merely be beaten down. Some can be recruited for jihad - currently paid for by a Paki army and feudal class growing richer on American handouts. But a huge number of them will attempt to migrate to areas where they can earn money to survive - leading to societal stresses within Pakistan. Urban Pakistan will swell as rural Pakistan swells and slums will only get bigger. I need to look at who is migrating where in Pakistan - Karachi of course is a magnet. It is the expanding urban areas with poverty and slums that will decide what happens to Pakistan.

But for a while Pakistan is set to boom. Urban labor will be young and cheap, making RAPE lifestyles easier. But urban power and water supply will be in short supply, while crime rates will go up -withe the formation of crime mafias. It is these groups that India will be able to use for urban mayhem in Pakistan. India will have to use the unhappy of Pakistan to set off multiple small revolts and make the country ungovernable.

What can Pakistan do? It could develop. but for development you need investment, education and a decrease in runaway population growth. Nothing in Pakistan currently indicates that any of these is going to happen. but Pakistan will live on handouts. Pakistan has another route open - again currently not possible - i.e to accept India as a hegemon and bandwagon with India. This will require change in Pakstani army mindset. But in the long term Pakistan's 3.5 will not be able to keep Pakistan's burgeoning millions fed and employed. Even the Paki army will start feeling the crunch if it has not already started doing so. In the meantime the pot must be kept boiling in Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Mar 2010 09:50

Amber G. wrote: In any case it looks like many who had Internet did not have TV (or power to run TV) ...

Interesting - I must visit Pakdef - but I always seem to miss the juicy bits. I don't know how many "regional channels" Pakistan has. While India has many - even in India penetration has not reached levels where an event in a very small mofussil town gets reported on TV instantly. TV is a juicy entertainment medium and grips humans. You don't need much penetration to make money, but you need deep penetration to make it relevant on a countrywide basis. the bomb blast in Pune gets reported within hours - but a small town event gets seen very late. (Unlike the USA for instance which has cameras and crews in small towns or nearby)

All our view of Pakistan are generally moulded by those people who have the power in Pakistan to be heard and seen - e it on TV or in the media. And because we see them we believe "This is Pakistan'. But there is a huge "hidden Pakistaan" that is neither seen nor heard. Access to that part of Pakistan is difficult. Hidden by the all controlling RAPE.

If you watched only Indian satellite TV you would think India consists of singers, dancers and beautiful women in colorful saris and handsome young men acting family dramas. But India has been open enough to reveal the "other India" long before TV. Not so in Pakistan. The poor and screwed up rural Pakistan, often ensconced within feudal lands are invisible. But they are there and do matter.

What are they doing? What can touch them? can they be tapped? Can they be screwed more so they revolt?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Mar 2010 09:56

ramana wrote:
Agarwal = Rajput? The pakis so badly want to be of Rajput origin, its laughable.
If not Rajput they all are Brahmins.

From what I know Agrawals are mostly vaisya in these days. (Many I know are Jain etc) Legend has it that King Agrasena adopted Vanika dharma for the benefit of his people ( ... Literally, Agarwal means the people of Agroha, (in ancient Kuru Panchala) ...(Anyway this is from famous author Bharatendu Harishchandra's (he was also an Agrawal) ' Agarwalon ki Utpatti

Shivji - I think you know, it was not the pakdef but the other one...where the dialog took place.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 09 Mar 2010 10:45

Amber G. wrote:On Pak Technology front:
Ban on import of used computers under study
One of the reasons given to not import older computers is somewhat misleading.
Computer manufacturers say used computers, dumped by the developed countries, are high-energy consumption devices, which cause environmental and social damage besides causing economic loss.

This fact is not always true. Looking at the history of Intel's processors, the power consumption started to go up from 386, 486, Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III and Pentium IV. They only dropped when the Core 2s started replacing the Pentium IVs and for the Intel Atom, of course and now they're on the way up again with the i5s and i7s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CP ... issipation
Any person who built their own PCs for years would have known this, because the transformers kept getting bigger and bigger year after year. These days most transformers start at 450 W or so, when just a few years ago, 300W transformer was considered overkill!

I suspect the real reason is that the PC vendors in pakistan are getting their business affected by smugglers who import second hand goods.