India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 03 Sep 2010 04:00

Just curious. If they are primarily for "libertarianism" and "fiscal conservatism" and "constitutional rights" they should have no problem with the WTC Mosque right?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2010 04:05

darshhan:

I am only commenting on Beckie boy and his gang is because of their Nazisque attitude towards all people of color, and that includes us SDREs. If they are so concerned about deficit and all that crap, what were they doing twidling their thumbs when Bush went amuck? And their anger is kind of pompous. There are a zillion other things that they should be worried about than piling on Obama round the clock. For example, if they are soooooooo concerned about propriety in govt, tell them to after Bush/Cheney who have made a fool of the US public with their lies and resulted in the death of so many of their compatriots, not to mention Iraqis who I doube even exists in their consciousness. Can there be a bigger issue this. No, they are mighty p!ssed becasue a black guy is presdient, and Beckie boy and other right wing nuts are tapping into that inherent racism. Not because Obama raised taxes by a $s.

But the bigger question I have is how is it someone intelligent like you take those tea party clowns and other right wing nuts seriously. I mean if you have even an ounce of understanding of how US govt, US system works, do you really think decisions are based on what people want all the time? Do you really think tea party Nazis or Boston liberals, either one would dare go against Pentagon/CIA in dolling out billions of $s moolah to TSPA to cage SDREs like you? Closer to home, do you really think, give or take a few cents, either side would not have bailed out banks, auto industry etc in the aftermath of 2008 meltdown? The tea party shenanigans, or for that matter liberal vs conservative crap, is for the most part just that: entertainment and shoring up of the respective bases whose main differences are over social issues: race, religion, sexuality etc.

Enough said. Now back to regularly scheduled programming.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 03 Sep 2010 04:28

Carl_t ji,Before I answer your question I want to make a point.Tea party is a highly decentralized movement.Neither it is led by a single leader nor it has a concrete hierarchy.Every place has its own chapter.

So in this case it is the NY chapter that has to support or oppose the building of a mosque.I do not have any knowledge about the official stand of local NY chapter on this issue.I do know that there are lot of people who are opposing the mosque and I am sure lot of them belong to tea party.And as far as I am concerned they are absolutely right.

Because Islam is not just a religion but a political movement(like fascism or communism) which will always strive to destroy the constitutional rights of US citizens from within and without.In fact this is true for every country.Wherever Islam is predominant the so called infidels have hardly any rights.Also mosques are not used just for worship but also for propagating jihad.The ground zero mosque is especially offensive as it represents triumphalism which means constructing mosques on infidel property destroyed in jihad.

So I would rather hope that Tea party show some spine and openly oppose the construction of mosque.For that matter I hope that republicans and democrats also do the same.

The first amendment among the other constitutional rights , recognizes freedom of religion but this right should not be given to political movements which masquerade as religions and aspire to defeat the same constitutional rights.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 03 Sep 2010 04:32

darshhan wrote:
CRams ji, Here I have to agree with Sanjay M.Glenn Beck is no nazi.He is a libertarian who believes in limited govt and low taxes.What's wrong with that?I don't know in which context he quoted indian doctors but in my opinion he is not a racist.This is mostly leftist propaganda(NY Times,Newsweek,Time,CNN,MSNBC etc) which is responsible for creating perception that Tea party is racist.Sure some individuals might be racist but the movement is not.

The primary reason for forming the tea party was and still is the expanding size of both the Federal and state govts..

Tea Party is nothing but trying to emulate Southern Strategy all over US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats

Tea Party wants less taxes, more defence expenditure and a balanced budget!
Bill Maher said it right that it's like getting a hand job will somehow cleanup the garage. It doesn't make any sense.
http://davidmquintana.blogspot.com/2010 ... clean.html
Tea party is the hip hop generation of Conservatives who want to replace the present system but aren't really sure with what.

Regarding Sarah Palin, pretty sure one of these days a Ph.D University student from MIT would ask her " Should I continue with my nuclear science Ph.D and be middle class all my life, or leave studies, become stupid and become a millionaire like you".

Glen Beck is an out and out Nazi racist and anyone who does not understand that should read the history of conservative movement and the original Karl Rove i.e. Lee Atwater.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can't say “nigger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

naren · Post by **naren** » 03 Sep 2010 04:42

Let 'em build their mosque. Then build a 100ft tall Buddha statue on one side and Hanuman statue on the other side. Religious freedom guaranteed. Kuffar symbols right in their face to remind 'em who's the boss. Problem solved.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 03 Sep 2010 04:49

Crams ji , I myself hold Bush Cheney administration responsible for the fiscal deficit as well and you are absolutely right that they did nothing to control the spending.As far as criticism of Obama by Beck and others is concerned it is because he is in power.When Bush was there then he was criticised by almost everybody even Beck.

Also You have to bear in mind I am not supporting US foreign policy of aiding Pakistan.In fact I believe that India is bending backwards to accomodate US interests which is extremely humiliating.After all this why is India even buying american defence equipment.I honestly feel that all defence procurements from US should be kept on hold until US stops supporting Pakistan.Why are we even inviting the president?

But the discussion was not about US foreign policy but tea party movement so that is what I focussed on.

Also I have the idea how the system works and I know there is tremendous inertia in the system which resists change.To challenge this inertia you need to mobilize the people and that is what tea party is doing.I do not know how successful they will be but then only other option is violent revolution which of course no one would want.That's all for today.See you guys later.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 03 Sep 2010 04:55

darshhan wrote: Because Islam is not just a religion but a political movement(like fascism or communism) which will always strive to destroy the constitutional rights of US citizens from within and without.In fact this is true for every country.Wherever Islam is predominant the so called infidels have hardly any rights.Also mosques are not used just for worship but also for propagating jihad.The ground zero mosque is especially offensive as it represents triumphalism which means constructing mosques on infidel property destroyed in jihad.

So I would rather hope that Tea party show some spine and openly oppose the construction of mosque.For that matter I hope that republicans and democrats also do the same.

The first amendment among the other constitutional rights , recognizes freedom of religion but this right should not be given to political movements which masquerade as religions and aspire to defeat the same constitutional rights.

Darshan ji, I understand the Tea party is heavily decentralized, but it is not a libertarian movement. It is a socially conservative, white christian nationalist movement that favors small government. Totally different planet. Libertarians are socially "liberal" and fiscally "conservative". From your experience, how do most TPers feel about gay marriage for example?

Regarding the mosque - If Christianity is a "religion" and Judaism is a "religion" then Islam, being an outgrowth of those two religions, is just as much a religion as they are. The purpose of the mosque be it "triumphalism" or "jihad" is irrelevant. If you uphold "libertarianism" you have to give them the space to say what they want regardless of how you feel about it.

Now even if you say Islam is a "political movement", there are plenty of Constitutional protections for that as well. But it's not about constitutional rights as you argue.

If it was about "budget deficits" where were they during the Bush years? I don't remember. There is the fact that during the Bush administration that the budget deficit expanded, wall street was making zillions, and Bush and Cheney were concocting wars against a nation that was no threat to the US and had never been. Somehow the TPers didn't show their faces then did they?

The moment a black liberal man actually becomes president, these guys show up. Maybe it is a coincidence.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 03 Sep 2010 04:59

naren wrote:Let 'em build their mosque. Then build a 100ft tall Buddha statue on one side and Hanuman statue on the other side. Religious freedom guaranteed. Kuffar symbols right in their face to remind 'em who's the boss. Problem solved.

One side of Mosque is already taken by Gay bar.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/1 ... 76699.html

The Tea Partiers are like Loose canon. On surface they may be good for India as they would oppose fundamentalist islam.
But loose canons can equally destruct any side including themselves, and in past TSP has been better at fooling loose canons than pure thinkers like Reagan vs. Clinton.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 03 Sep 2010 05:00

Their opposition for Islam is not religious. Being a religion observed by brown skinned immigrants, it is purely racial. Remember "monkey god"? The same attitude is directed at Mexicans and SDREs.

The Tea Partiers are no friend to India or Indians, we shouldnt get caught up in their opposition to Islamism. JMT.

naren · Post by **naren** » 03 Sep 2010 05:05

^^^ tea party == TP. Very good label indeed

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 03 Sep 2010 08:29

New Yorkers Want Islamic Center Moved, Poll Finds

Two-thirds of New York City residents want a planned Muslim community center and mosque to be relocated to a less controversial site farther away from ground zero in Lower Manhattan, including many who say they favor the project, according to a New York Times poll.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/nyreg ... ml?_r=1&hp

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Sep 2010 09:50

This mosque saga is fascinating to me. Frankly, as much as I don't have a dog in this debate, I'd like to see the opponents of the mosque, majority Americans win. Why? I am hoping that would then temper self righteous sermons from state dept and "freedom house" or whoever about lack of religious freedom in India. But then again mahybe not. US is adept at spiinning its way and with a straight face and claim that what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 03 Sep 2010 10:11

In the mosque debate it is better to remember that enemy's enemy is not always your friend. Communities in the US has denied or put many legal barriers invoking local laws in building temples, even when lots of native European places of worship exist dime a dozen. Better to stay aloof or demand multiple religious centers in proximity, in the name of better understanding to each others sensitivities.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 03 Sep 2010 10:27

Lets not get worried about relijjious phreedom reports, heck, even our frothing at the mouths ELM doesn't go overboard these days when these customary Hindoooo bashing reports get churned out.
IMHO its better if the mosque gets built, coz then it will be the symbol of hussain obama/democrat sekoolaarism & can also be spun as a symbol of "enemy at the gates" by the repub/TP. The mosque, if built, can give us SDREs several years of non-stop entertainment while the left & right in khanate have a go at each other over sekoolaarism/"nationalism ala TP" and in the best case scenario set off a ROP-ROL lovefest in khanate. Either ways, the SDRE should be thankful. For once, let sekoolaarism bloom in its full glory on khanate & yes the more rabid the preaching at the G-zero mosque, the better.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 03 Sep 2010 11:25

Bade wrote:In the mosque debate it is better to remember that enemy's enemy is not always your friend. Communities in the US has denied or put many legal barriers invoking local laws in building temples, even when lots of native European places of worship exist dime a dozen. Better to stay aloof or demand multiple religious centers in proximity, in the name of better understanding to each others sensitivities.

This is true.

Islamism is like ozone. If it's around you and you're breathing it, it's bad, on the other hand if it's far away in the atmosphere blocking other things it's good.

If TP-ers make it to power, they will crack down on Islamism at home, but will they stop propping up Islamist states? Yeah right.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Sep 2010 11:40

Addustour, Jordan
http://watchingamerica.com/News/66472/o ... ab-street/

Obama Between the New York
Mosque and the Arab Street

By Aaidah An-Najjaar
Translated By Umar Seekdaur
17 August 2010
Edited by Hoishan Chan
Jordan - Addustour - Original Article (Arabic)

It seems that President Obama has, at this point, definitely lost the trust of Arabs as well as Muslims gained over the last year after reaching the height of popularity following his famous Cairo speech. That was after he had reassured the Arabs that he was "a different kind of U.S. President.

Obama and his advisers are aware of these facts and they are working toward rebuilding trust between the U.S. president and the Arabs through several means. Perhaps he is "fortunate" because this bad relationship with the Muslims coincides with their decision to build a mosque near ground zero in New York. Apparently, the speech he gave "for Muslims" at the White House iftar — the meal breaking the day's fast — strengthened his determination when he remembered the positive emotions evoked by the Cairo speech in his favor. In his speech, he pointed out that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion like any other U.S. citizen. However, the reaction of most Americans indicates their rejection of Obama’s defense of this right, which explains the resentment of Republicans and conservatives toward the mosque scheduled to be built in New York.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Sep 2010 00:13

Watch this video about an Arab leader promoting sending 4lbs of anthrax through Mexico to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and blow up power plants....the mosque is insane---it will be built to the glory of 9/11 deaths.....please watch and pass on to everyone....it came from Greece.
Videos like this tend to disappear fast. Watch this one before it's taken down...

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?vi ... ea1ceb73e4

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Sep 2010 03:47

SBajwa wrote:Watch this video about an Arab leader promoting sending 4lbs of anthrax through Mexico to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and blow up power plants....the mosque is insane---it will be built to the glory of 9/11 deaths.....please watch and pass on to everyone....it came from Greece.
Videos like this tend to disappear fast. Watch this one before it's taken down...

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?vi ... ea1ceb73e4

Its keeper for all Kuffar. Mullah forget that US can drop few big fat ones on Al/lul Arabia and get over the problem in few flashing seconds. But credit must be given where due, The man knows his Koran and Shariat well.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 04 Sep 2010 05:00

SBajwa wrote: Videos like this tend to disappear fast. Watch this one before it's taken down...

Considering that the video has been out for a year and a half, I doubt that it will disappear anytime soon.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 05 Sep 2010 10:40

India-US seeking greater ties in cyber security, low-cost tech

The US and India are looking for collaboration in cyber security, open government and low-cost technology, a senior US government official said."Both the governments are looking at collaboration in cyber security, open Government and low-cost technology," the Indian born US chief information officer, Vivek Kundra, told reporters here today.

Vivek Kundra is one of the prominent Indians in team Obama, which helps the US president, Barack Obama, in administration. It is not that one country is learning from the other. It is an age when countries can benefit from each other in technology, he said. "Cyber security can transform countries. India's UID (Unique Identification) program under the leadership of Nandan Nilekani is one such thing," he said.

There is a need to shift the power to public with the help of Information Technology. In areas like 'Right to Know Act' IT can do a lot--it is another area where both countries can collaborate, Kundra said.A big concern in America on IT is outsourcing, he said, but refused to elaborate. Earlier in the mid-90s, during liberalisation, both countries benefited from globalisation. "Now we look forward further and relations are only going to strengthen," he said.

"I see a positive relation in the long-term," Kundra said. Now the US is trying to implement best practices all over the world as directed by president Obama, he said. "US president Obama reminded us that the US does not have a monopoly on all the best ideas. He told us that we need to implement best practices wherever it exists. That is the reason I am here today," Kundra said.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Sep 2010 11:08

Vivek Kundra knows full well the last time the US and India tried to cooperate on cyber security that the US was raising/utilizing moles in the IB with a honey trap. It was a one-way exchange that let the US know how intel info is distributed in the Indian bureaucracy. So this time the US sends an Indian origin person over to pull the wool over the eyes of people in India who are truly protecting the free world and democracy. Its interesting that the Ombaba administration chose Vivek Kundra, a person with a BA in psychology and an MS in Information Technology (this degree use to be known as an MA in Library Science), rather than the many many qualified persons of Indian origin who are truly experts in computer science and engineering. A modern day Uncle Tom.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 05 Sep 2010 11:10

Carl_T wrote:Darshan ji, I understand the Tea party is heavily decentralized, but it is not a libertarian movement. It is a socially conservative, white christian nationalist movement that favors small government. Totally different planet. Libertarians are socially "liberal" and fiscally "conservative". From your experience, how do most TPers feel about gay marriage for example?

The moment a black liberal man actually becomes president, these guys show up. Maybe it is a coincidence.

First, TP has nothing to do with all that gay crap. Its strictly about over-sized corporate controlled govt, the federal reserve putting out bad money and passing down of losses to suckers . I like to think as Ron Paul as the inspiration of the movement.

Second, TP as a name emerged during 2008 crisis. However most people in the TP movement generally believed in small govt & honest money well before 2008. The protest against pre-emtive war in Iraq back in 2003 probably had many TP people in it but the name TP did not exist then.

Since then there's been all the attempts by con artists, opportunistic politicians and various attention seekers to hijack the TP movement for their publicity or divert its agenda to irrelavant issues (i.e. that gay stuff, religion..etc) have tried and failed.

In reality all the names like TP and Libertarian are useless. It simply comes down to a question of whether you are for honest govt & money or not. Crooked bankers obviously want the fraudulent system to continue as they profit from it.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 05 Sep 2010 11:18

Mort Walker wrote:Vivek Kundra knows full well the last time the US and India tried to cooperate on cyber security that the US was raising/utilizing moles in the IB with a honey trap. It was a one-way exchange that let the US know how intel info is distributed in the Indian bureaucracy.

I agree. The danger is way too high. Even more dangerous than snooping on govt bureaucracy is espionage related to financial & economic matters. Can you imagine how many billions could be lost if some goldman sachs type company finds a way to hack the data stream of the Indian stock markets and starts front running it or gaming it? I can't believe the idiots at the National Stock Exchange actually let Goldman Sachs take a 10% stake in the exchange.

Already a year or two ago, the internet fiber optic cable linking India with the rest of the world was 'cut' for a few days out in the Indian ocean. That came not long after some other cable linking China to the rest of the world was cut too! Who knows what snooping instrument might have been inserted into the chain to monitor data flow.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 05 Sep 2010 21:15

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/just ... ijaykumar/

Please sign if you agree.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Sep 2010 21:52

Carl_T wrote:Just curious. If they are primarily for "libertarianism" and "fiscal conservatism" and "constitutional rights" they should have no problem with the WTC Mosque right?

Cordoba Initiative

Dose this not register on anyone??

Why Cordoba Initiative for a name for this mosque??

What relevance does this name have in the world of today and that too in WTC context.

The name says it all and also gives the game away.

Historically this victorious monument building thingee is what the muslims have always done in a place and to a people that they believe they have vanquished.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 05 Sep 2010 22:05

Chetak sir, It has registered on everyone, it's no secret at this point.

However, point being, if they were actually "libertarian", they wouldn't oppose the mosque. If they were about the "budget deficit", they also would have been crying during the Bush/Cheney years over the exploding budget deficit, if they were primarily fueled by "constitutional liberties" they would have cried about the tactics of the Bush administration on its own citizens. TP did not exist then.

This claim that TPers are "libertarian" and primarily fuelled by "budget deficits" is a fantasy. (Mama Grizzly has been calling for increases in defense spending!) They are socially conservative christian nationalists angry at a bad economy and an uppity black liberal president.

Opposition to Islamism in NY doesn't translate into any tangible support for India or Indians. Will a TP ruled US stop backing Pakistan and KSA? Yeah right. Will US partnership with China decrease under TP? Will we see less conversion by EJs under a TP rule? Countries can oppose Islamism at home and support it abroad. Let us not make the mistake of "enemy of enemy is friend"...

Once the economy is better these guys will go away.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Sep 2010 22:49

Carl_T,

Excellent post which should close anymore talk about TPs; they are just a bunch of bigoted Nazis led on by demagouges like Beck & Palin who are laughing their asses off to the bank.

But as far as I am concenred, given USA's social, economic, and cutlural background, its political system is as stable as can be; a kind of "democratic oligarchy" where personl freedom, whom to sleep with, what to wear etc are constitutionally respected, but key decisions of strategic nature are under the purview of an elite who for the most part make good decisions. Sometimes, I wish India were like that, but the problem is that India has no nationalist core for a system like USA's to actually work.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 05 Sep 2010 22:58

Rudradev wrote:http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/just ... ijaykumar/

Please sign if you agree.

Signed !!!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Sep 2010 23:32

Mort Walker wrote:Vivek Kundra knows full well the last time the US and India tried to cooperate on cyber security that the US was raising/utilizing moles in the IB with a honey trap. It was a one-way exchange that let the US know how intel info is distributed in the Indian bureaucracy. So this time the US sends an Indian origin person over to pull the wool over the eyes of people in India who are truly protecting the free world and democracy. Its interesting that the Ombaba administration chose Vivek Kundra, a person with a BA in psychology and an MS in Information Technology (this degree use to be known as an MA in Library Science), rather than the many many qualified persons of Indian origin who are truly experts in computer science and engineering. A modern day Uncle Tom.

Met Kundra's classmates and schoolmates when he was facilitated last year. They told he was local and built a good connection around the area and was able to get connected. That is his real achievement.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 06 Sep 2010 17:15

Barack Obama's upcoming visit signals strong India-US ties
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/vi ... id/4472250

India and United States should plan in a way that they are allies in this part of the world and they benefit each other through economic and military cooperations. In many ways US interest will concide with India's interest.

Obama is in his best position to do it. Though during Clinton and Bush's times they were coming closer to India (Somehow I liked George Bush's extra efforts to be friendly to India nearing the end of his term), But Obama will have to make it history as it will culminate in convergence of interests and strategies and cooperation. In spite of all small odds India and US made sure the ways are clear. India can learn from US in terms of agricultural revolution and technological advancement.

Obama and Manmohan Singh has to make it historical and unique relationship in terms of military, economic,nuclear and other cooperations between two countries. Once again this relationship is based on mutual benefiting and trust and safety of people of both countries.

India needs to see her role in a wider global way than limiting this relationship to merely counter neighbours.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 06 Sep 2010 18:34

^^^Sadly, something tells me sri Obama's tooo clever by three quarters administration will again try its hopium of chweet words coupled with zero action shtick on Dilli. Once again, that is.

Apparently the phoren powers - from DC to Beijing - long ago figured out that Dilli's leading lights were quite, quite susceptible to flattery. Anyone recall sri JLN's PRC visit, eh? Anyway, hence the heavy onrush of scripted mush and sweet nothings at every visit by the western bigwigs - from Cameron to Obama.

Hopefully, this generation of Desis has wizened to this ploy. I actually read reports in the media of Desi establishment complaining of neglect on the action front and overdoses on the verbosity front from the Obama administration, if memory serves. Lezsee where this is going.

My prediction - and I hope I am wrong - is stalemate. No movement, no breakthroughs, no strategic partnership-wartnership, nothing of substance. Only loud farts masquerading as flowery words, grand visions and statesmanspeak from up glittering podia in fornt of a media circus.

Again, time will tell, let us wait and see.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Sep 2010 19:18

Perhaps BRF should bombard different forums and comments section of various articles both before and after Obama's visit - Only Talk, No Substance!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Sep 2010 19:36

Oops! The "Messiah" trips up on his own carpet!
(Let's roll out one of our own when he visits!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... .htmlWhite House blunder over Oval Office carpet quote
White House planners have mistakenly attributed a quotation to Martin Luther King in the new Oval Office carpet but the original author was in fact a now-forgotten 19th century activist.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 00:47

joshvajohn wrote: India needs to see her role in a wider global way than limiting this relationship to merely counter neighbours.

India does not seek to have a relationship with US just to counter a 2-bit abomination called TSP. But India does legitimately seek to use close relationship with US to ensure that the global war on terror inclues terror sponsored by TSP against India. The 2 goals are not incompatible.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 05:19

From Fareed Zakaria, where are the tea partiers protesting all this; I thought they are for freedom, liberty, low govt spening yada yada. How much does India spend on RAW despite being such a victim of TSP terror. Does Indian secularism permit what US does to Muslims in name of national security?

Since September 11, 2001, the US government has created or reconfigured at least 263 organisations to tackle some aspect of the war on terror. The amount of money spent on intelligence has risen by 250 percent, to $75 billion (and that's the public number, which is a gross underestimate). That's more than the rest of the world spends put together.

Thirty-three new building complexes have been built for intelligence bureaucracies alone, occupying 17 million square feet - the equivalent of 22 US Capitols or three Pentagons. Five miles southeast of the White House, the largest government site in 50 years is being built - at a cost of $3.4 billion - to house the largest bureaucracy after the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs: the Department of Homeland Security, which has a workforce of 230,000 people.

This new system produces 50,000 reports a year - 136 a day - which, of course, means few ever get read. Those senior officials who have read them describe most as banal; one tells me, "Many could be produced in an hour using Google." Fifty-one separate bureaucracies operating in 15 states track the flow of money to and from terrorist organisations, with little information-sharing.

Some 30,000 people are now employed exclusively to listen in on phone conversations and other communications in the US. And yet no one in army intelligence noticed that Major Nidal Malik Hasan had been making a series of strange threats at the Walter Reed Army Medical Centre, where he trained.

The father of the Nigerian 'Christmas bomber' reported his son's radicalism to the US embassy. But that message never made its way to the right people in this vast security apparatus. The plot was foiled only by the bomber's own incompetence and some alert passengers.

Such mistakes might be excusable. But the rise of this national-security State has entailed a vast expansion in the government's powers that now touches every aspect of American life, even when seemingly unrelated to terrorism.

The most chilling aspect of Dave Eggers's heartbreaking book, Zeitoun, is that the federal government's fastest and most efficient response to Hurricane Katrina was the creation of a Guantánamo-like prison facility (in days!) in which 1,200 American citizens were summarily detained and denied any of their constitutional rights for months, a suspension of habeas corpus that reads like something out of a Kafka novel.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Sep 2010 06:36

Looks like US is turning into a Mukhabarat state!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 07 Sep 2010 08:06

^^^ CRamS, India is not a good example to cite for comparison, because the Indian state continually lets down its people on national security issues.

As for Zakaria, he seems to be quite a weathervane, swiveling around in whatever direction the wind happens to be blowing.

Certainly in any large sample size, it's easily statistically possible to have outliers in both directions. Arguing to the contrary is hardly meaningful.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Sep 2010 10:39

Sanjay M:

I did some googling and read accounts of what Zakaria says happened to even law-abiding Muslims during Katrina. Man it sacred the living s@it out of me. Now I am even more convinced that US could easily descend into a hard core Mukhabarat (to borrow RamanaGaru's characterization) police state if national security deems it necessary. But then again, just as in post 9/11, if majority white Americans citizens are happy despite constitution being trampled upon in the treatment of their Muslim compatriots (witness also the mosque debate), I guess, its still a stable policy. Egalitarianism no matter what sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in practice, not even in the world's greatest democracy, God's own country USA.

That said, I don't know what you were trying to say regarding large sample size and all that.

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 07 Sep 2010 10:49

When we benchmark best practices in Counter Terrorism, Snatch Operations is a good practice that GoI can implement

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 07 Sep 2010 10:55

The OSINT that NTRO gathers requires analysis and conversion of analysis to actionable intelligence.

Technically NTRO should be generating Early Warning while it monitors OSINT