Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2013 13:45

re UK rape convictions being low - yes its true, from personal experience of a rape trial, i can say that there are many many cases which are in a grey area of "date rape" or the attacker and victim were well known to each other and were in the same location (for whatever reason). under those circumstances the man says 'she consented' and the woman says 'i said no'. the trial then hinges on her word against his and extenuating circumstances, e.g. alcohol, drugs, was it a party? was she doing something else with the same man earlier, etc.? a good defense lawyer can exploit any of these themes and create sufficient doubt in a jury's mind - and then there is no choice other than aquittal. the prosecution (and the victim) need a watertight case.

cases where there is obvious violence or abduction are far more clear cut, but those cases are in the minority. sadly these cases are the most brutal. one happened near where i live just before xmas, a man dragged a school girl into a park as she was walking home and subjected her to a three hour ordeal.

it is a serious mistake to think that these crimes do not happen in the west - they do and are very frequent. more than in india i would suggest. part of it is explained by the grey area of more involved social interaction (than in india), but the incidence of violent rape is similar.

i have an english friend who was raped twice, first time by someone she knew well and the second time by a stranger who was hanging around the party she was at. she blames herself for having had too much to drink, but was taken by surprise both times. she's tough, so she did 'recover' but it did affect her quite badly in terms of psychological damage.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 Jan 2013 14:39

And then we have curious case of Rape by Julius Assange.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 04 Jan 2013 18:23

Western society does not have had chance to apologies for rapes during pre slavery abolition times. link

Or for that matter still ongoing in recent decade as procedural/genocidal - recent persecution of Quechuas

There are also subtle discrimination for example blatantly protesting when a native woman takes oath under native religion. link.

Not to forget how Princess Diana was rescued in rather not exactly James Bond style, but ended up dead with an unborn child with alleged father dead too. That was totally uncivil. As also how British royal society not giving as much respect to current legally wedded wife, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, of Prince Charles as it respected Princess Diana. Wonder why she is not in line to be the next queen of UK.

Better not compare blindly.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 04 Jan 2013 19:58

Raju Das | ৰাজু দাস ‏@rajudasonline
So date of birth of Gen VK Singh as per school certificate was not acceptable for GOI, but same is acceptable for juvenile rapist.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 04 Jan 2013 20:31

Whatever happens elsewhere is interesting and disheartening, but who is better or worse is irrelevant. If women cannot walk and travel in safety, we have failed.

For me, this has caused some serious introspection as to how India has developed. Please don't just blame politicians or UPA or NDA. Something is drastically wrong.

It can't be culture or values as I know of none anywhere that say it is OK to slap, beat, verbally harass, molest or rape a woman or a child (let's not forget them).

Patriarchy may discriminate against women achieving their potential but it does not - as far as I know - encourage their abuse.

There is one other thing - for too long we ( I include myself ) have been reluctant to face the fact there are instances of rape and sexual assault perpetrated by members of India's armed forces and police/paramilitary forces.

We cannot see those who bring this to light as being "anti-national" or "anti-military". The issues must be confronted in an open, fair and transparent manner.

The Indian forces will emerge stronger from that.

As a warning, I hope that women in India's forces will not be intimidated in the event they experience sexual harassment.

Look at this nightmare in the United States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_ass ... s_military

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/0 ... 34196.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2013 20:35

Ind Express the loyal rag for foreign interests says:

US Offers to check crimes against women as India is unable to do the job

hHis while Rep Gwenn Moore blasts the US Congress for not amending the Violence against Women Act in the last Congress!!!

SHouldnt the paper have an iota of sense and say "Physicians heal thyself first!"

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jan 2013 20:56

The police force needs to be sensitized to women's needs first. By definition beat police are crude men and in India they are as crude as they get - that is the nature of the job. A rape victim is not looked at with sympathy - but only as someone who has already been raped so the police can enjoy her more while blaming someone else.

In Bangalore the womens police stations and lines all closed by 6 PM because policewomen too are girls and daughters and they too get harassed and have no way of protecting themselves. It's not as though male police will escort them home - they have to catch buses and get groped.

Might as well get over the cognitive dissonance right here and now. We are the Indian equivalent of RAPE and will feel sympathy for women. Most of India has an environment where women who are alone among a male majority can get groped, teased. It happens to all me female relatives and their friends this is Bangalore. In Delhi it is worse.

It is most important for us to not go into denial mode.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 04 Jan 2013 21:13

Good point Shiv and thank you for making it.

About your comments about groping and teasing, it is true - my mother and her friends for God's sake in Mumbai and Delhi in the 1960s.

It wasn't foreigners that did it - our own people.

Ramana, despite the phrasing of the Indian Express article, I welcome the US offer.

It wasn't so long ago that women were blamed for the rape etc etc. in the US. They recognized the problem and tried to do something positive.

They may not have been fully successful but women can walk the streets and use public transport without being verbally abused (not teasing Shiv - too mild) and molested (groping I find is too mild).

I despise white racist patronizing but I also recognize that we can get help and that so far our efforts have been wholly inadequate.

The help can be in the form of curricula for gender sensitizing for police and certainly we can learn from their experience in establishing rape crisis centres and victim/survivor support.

They can do a lot of work to bolster NGO efforts (and there is nothing stopping Hindu charities from setting up victim support centres).

Let us also get one thing clear - the rape victim or sexual assault victim does not suffer any less in the West nor is he or she more likely to get justice (as I point out, conviction rates and arrest rates are very bad) and there may even be more but she is not further abused by the Police and not shunned by society.

Things are by no means good in the West but there are things we can learn and should learn and should not be defensive about welcoming help (being fearful of ulterior motives can blind us to the fact that India needs some help on this subject).

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2013 21:21

it was a long journey in the UK too - the police had to be trained wholesale in being much more sensitive to rape as a crime (and not a joke) - and this is only going back about 15-20 years i think. several policemen had to be jailed for either off duty or on duty rape, intimidation and harrassment crimes before behaviour started to change. as a consequence more rapes do get reported - but then there are the legal complications to deal with (as i mentioned earlier). there is no doubt in cases of violent/psychotic behaviour - but that whole arena of 'she was asking for it' had to be tackled - and its not over yet. i dont think the US is much better off either, and i am sure overall is much worse.

in the case of India - the 'she was asking for it' model seems to have catastrophically expanded in the past few years/decades

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 04 Jan 2013 21:27

Lalmohan - if you can dig up any links to what you say (and I believe you wholeheartedly), I think you would have made an invaluable contribution to our education.

In the US, at first point of reporting, things have improved. Investigation is more sensitive but the track record is not good.

What is it about all of us that we don't get outraged often enough ?

I mean whether an Indian woman/child/boy/man or a white or an African and the perpetrator is not punished, we need to get angry.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jan 2013 21:55

It is outrageous to not consider murder and cruelty of the juvenile criminal, and just considering him only of rape charges.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 04 Jan 2013 22:08

What is it about all of us that we don't get outraged often enough ?

May be it was a rhetoric question, but is it our inability to feel pain or insensitivity to pain others feel? I read somewhere that after 1945 Hiroshoma nuke bombing tragedy and loss of life, for Japanese, they became insensitive to any loss of life after that that they didn't cry when someone passed anymore. May be we too have become insensitive to pain after centuries of subjugation and atrocities, that rape, and violence now don't register as pain in our collective psyche?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 04 Jan 2013 22:13

krishnan wrote:So the guy who does the most horrific thing ends up being a minor...very coincident ...really.

or they want the minor to take the blame knowing that he cant be hanged.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2013 22:16

SaiK, The juvenile will get whats coming to him. He will be charged with murder and rape. But treated as juvenile as he is double minority. The very same Dilli Commentarati will be on the authorities like a ton of bricks if he were treated as an adult. And the whole case will dissolve away. So beleive me this is the right way.

Sanjay, I would not mind if the US were pristine.

CNN Report
Backers hope to revive Violence against Women act?

It smacks of political agenda with a gratitious hit to India when its down due to lumpen elements ruling the country and the media.

As we speak US is reeling from the Stubenville High School rape issue.

And read the plaintive lament of the Stubenville Police Chief:

"Why didn't somenone stop the rape?

Should India offer the US help in resolving such cases?
The US SD should think twice before making such gratituous remarks.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 04 Jan 2013 22:18

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2013 22:19

Bulger case

the above link is to an infamous child murder in the UK committed by two ten year old boys. they were tried as adults - which was a legal break from the past. some of the legal considerations are gone into in the above link.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Jan 2013 22:23

shiv wrote:By definition beat police are crude men and in India they are as crude as they get - that is the nature of the job.

Interesting point. From what I came to realise with my friends who were/are policemen* is that they are NOT going to be "game changers". To be quite frank, they remain pretty close to the society in which they are to enforce the law. At very many stages I could feel that on many topics their thought processes exactly resembled that of the common man, who they are supposed to deal with.

So in a society which considers "rape" as a shameful thing to happen to a woman, dont expect policemen to become all uppity and go full guns against the culprits. More likely the advice they give, would be pretty much the same advice any other civilian would give (what has happened..has happened, now life has to go on). Some of the policemen may have that personal quality to do this in a much more "polished" fashion. Others remain crude. Same goes for other stuff like "open marriages", "living-in relationships","promiscous sex" etc. etc. Does the society accept it, if no, police also most likely would not accept it. And in a society which feels that women kind of deserved to be raped (for what ever reason), I really dont expect a policeman to think any differently.

In Bangalore the womens police stations and lines all closed by 6 PM because policewomen too are girls and daughters and they too get harassed and have no way of protecting themselves.

The early 2000s in the commie-heaven of Kerala, saw a huge recruitment of women police personnel. Until then they did have a cursory presence. Before that they were kind of super-numeries who were only called in if required. And a large contingent of police men would be available. Slowly this was changed and women police officers were soon detailed on other jobs like beat patrolling. Instead of having an "All woman police station", women police were attached to other regular stations as well. This itself caused a sea-wave of change. One, in many cases the women would find a lady constable readily available who can understand her feelings better. Second, the behaviour of the men constables at the station also changed considerably. Last (but not the least), many police stations now have a rest room, bath room and a dress-changing room

. Today I see police constables (man & woman) who jointly walk a beat. Janamaithri community police scheme always have a man & woman pair. Many male PCs also now slowly understand that women are a different & yet the same species. The only crib comes from the veteran police men who feel that the young men & women in the force are given undeserved oppurtunity for romancing, dating etc. etc.

.

* Officers who rank SI and below.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 04 Jan 2013 22:26

Lalmohan wrote:
SNIP........

in the case of India - the 'she was asking for it' model seems to have catastrophically expanded in the past few years/decades

In my office one of my colleagues also used the same language. I just lashed out at him, saying that it could be him and his wife returning from a late evening movie as well.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 Jan 2013 22:30

It was a well laid trap and anybody could have walked into it. They were unfortunate to be there at that time, but then it would have been somebody else.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jan 2013 22:37

1970s -I was in medical college. One of my classmates went to a local fair and came back and boasted that he groped a girl "uski phuddi pakad li - ha ha ha". This behavior goes unreported because no one takes the least bit of notice if you try and report it. And when reported it goes unpunished. In India it is Ok for man to dominate and rape a woman for punishment. This has nothing to do with Hindutva or modern society. The law makers are a male dominated society who expect women to be in the kitchen or legs wide open in bed. In the class of society who tend to work for me as gardener, home help domestic etc it is normal for the husband to have sex and affairs outside of marriage.

For Indian men it is ha ha ha snigger snigger grope grope. If you are not that way you have missed how a significant percentage feel about women. Societal attitudes must be changed and punishment must be sever. But for people to be punished policemen have to be like you and me and not one who feels "ha ha phuddi pakad li". Policmen themselves are like that so what do you expect?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2013 22:40

Chaanakya, I want you to respond in the OT thread...

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 04 Jan 2013 22:47

^^^ Also talk about ragging, I have seen many of my friends talk indecently with girl classmates and juniors, very explicit making them turn red and embarrassed. Tolerance to such indecency is encouraged. Participating in such acts is nothing but quiet encouragement. Words lead to actions, nothing funny about it.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2013 22:51

^^^ there is nothing specifically Indian about this behaviour, it is much more universal. All that has happenend in the (anglo saxon) west is that women are less willing to put up and shut up and the law is finally catching up (despite the grey areas). latin west continues to be more in the old model

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 04 Jan 2013 23:11

What I am relieved about is that venug, Lalmohan, Shiv and many others are spearheading the awakening of a realization in the Indian male that for too long he has been part of the problem, even if not a participant.

Shiv, I have to say that unless one of you or somebody at the fair caught him, the victim probably never knew who did it. Anonymity is first line of protection these creatures have. The second is male apathy to such behaviour.

As far as women in the West being less willing to put up and shut up, more power to them I say and our women should emulate them.

I would just add that whatever the RSS chief said Bharat and India have failed to protect women and children from harm.

Gang rape happens in rural India. Zamindars raped lower caste women - through the Ranvir Sena - for a long time in Bihar.
Women are beaten by husbands in urban and rural India.
Rapes are committed anywhere and everywhere to a greater or lesser extent and the abuse of children is not a "Bharat-India" topic.

Things are not good - Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, atheist, Buddhist divisions at this point are irrelevant.

Values are what as society demonstrates on a daily basis. Going backwards to some purported vision of "Indian values" makes no sense.

There are many good things in Indian culture but we have not done justice to our women and children.

The sooner we recognize that the better.

A child is a child. A woman is a woman. Somebody's baby, wife, mother, son, sister, daughter, cousin, niece, nephew.

Any crime against them is an act of evil.

Either you offer a sensible solution or just stay out of the debate.

For the record, I am a Hindu and a proud one.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 04 Jan 2013 23:25

Sex being treated as taboo in our society, does that play a role in such behaviour and acts? subjects sexual in nature are seldom discussed in public, this leads to curiosity of a different kind, leading to exploration, since it's a taboo, once addicted, the addicted person goes unnoticed with his perversions and one day can act out, so sexual topics being taboo, does it have anything to do with degradation and sexual predation?

Added later:

But thinking again, US is supposed to be a liberal society, yet one woman gets raped every minute, and sex education in schools too has done nothing to stop predation. I think sensitivity and teachings one receives at home about respect for women and a general intolerance to any kind of violence when taught to kids can bring about a great change. If attitudes towards this kind of violence is not changed, no amount of education can help.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Jan 2013 23:43

rape and harrassment is never going to go away, but it can be moderated to levels where women are not in high probabilities of danger. there are no simple fixes here, but a gradual process of evolution. i would still say that what happened in delhi is not characteristic of the way things are in india - it remains an aberration, and sadly such attacks will happen. what can be prevented is the type of behaviour that shiv describes - through increasing social maturity through education and breaking down some of the taboos

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2013 23:46

Some op-eds from Dainik Jagran in English:

Will the chargesheet take the accused ot the gallows?
Nice side bar on the sections of IPC that were invoked.

...
Section 302- Accused could face death sentence or life imprisonment on charges of murder
Section 307- Accused could face death sentence for attempt to murder of victim’s friend
Section 365- They have been booked under this section for kidnapping which can draw death penalty
Section 396- Booked on charges of dacoity with murder and could get maximum punishment
{My point!!!!}
Section 376- Accused booked on charges of gang rape and could face life imprisonment
Section 394- Rigorous imprisonment which may extend to ten years on charges of committing or attempting to commit robbery and voluntarily causing hurt
Section 201- Sentence could vary according to the crime on charges of causing disappearance of evidences of offence or giving false information to screen offender
Section 377- Accused may face life imprisonment on charges of unnatural sexSection 120- Concealing design to commit offence punishable with imprisonment
Section 34- Up to 3-years of imprisonment for committing crime
Section 395- Rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to ten years on charges of dacoity

....
The prosecution alleged that the crime was executed in a "well-planned" manner.

"We have invoked section 120-B as all the six accused have committed the crime in a well-planned manner," public prosecutor Rajiv Mohan told reporters.

"Each one of them has a specific role in the commission of the offence. So they are equally liable for the crime. We have sufficient evidence against all the accused including the juvenile offender," he said.

Mohan said the DNA report has established the involvement of all the accused in the crime.The five accused are Ram Singh, his brother Mukesh and their accomplices Pawan Gupta, Vinay Sharma and Akshay Thakur. The role of the juvenile offender is also elaborated in the charge sheet.

and

Nation mourns death of braveheart

Am glad Commodore C. Uday Bhaskar, former Director of IDSA, wrote on this subject.

....
This column had drawn attention last week to the phenomenon of rape in India as a manifestation of the extreme violence, intimidation and rank societal discrimination that the girl-child and women face from the womb to their ultimate demise. The Mahipalpur victim is the latest of the high-profile cases that have rocked the nation – and given the statistics (one estimate concludes that a rape or an attempted rape is committed every two minutes in India) – alas it will not be the last.

Even as the national consciousness was convulsed by the plight of the young girl who had been air-lifted to Singapore, another rape victim – this time a 17 year old minor from village Badshahpur near Patiala in Punjab committed suicide on December 26. The girl was raped on the night of Diwali (November 13) and predictably, the local police and the neighborhood treated her in such a callous manner that she was driven to take her life.

That the police are also victims of a deeply distorted socio-political environment was illustrated in yet another case from Punjab. In early December, a Punjab Police assistant sub-inspector (ASI) was shot dead by a local Akali Dal leader when he tried to stop the politician and his accomplices from molesting his daughter.

These are just three incidents among the innumerable atrocities committed against women and girls in a routine manner in India. But what is seemingly different this time is the manner in which civil society has responded to the Mahipalpur brutality

The protests have spread across the country and the anguish and anger on the street and in thousands of homes is reminiscent of the anti-corruption mood that seized the country in 2011. At the time the Anna Hazare inspired agitation went viral for a brief period and the political establishment was jolted. The very centrality and sanctity of the Indian legislature as underpinning the democratic fabric was challenged and remedial measures – as represented in the demand for an all encompassing Lok Pal Bill and the immediate creation of a super ombudsman was perceived as the elixir that would erase corruption from public life.

The anti-corruption movement fizzled out as swiftly as it had emerged and the cynicism returned. The state apparatus sought to impose ‘order’ and some of the leading lights were placed under scrutiny or brief detention and despite the initial panic, the challenge to the political elite and their support structure from the people was averted.

The national mood shifted and it was averred that the problem of corruption was too deeply entrenched in the Indian body-politic to be removed in this manner. Today it is the anger and anguish against women that has galvanized civil society across the board and while there may be no single leader like a Hazare, the feeling is as intense.

The central question is whether the cause this time will suffer the same fate that met the anti-corruption fervor. Cynics may respond by saying that nothing will change in India which is inherently biased against women and that the constituency of the powerful in the land of Gandhi (which includes the deviant political-bureaucrat-police-judicial nexus and the mafia support structure in society that encompasses the criminal and the corrupt citizen ) will not let the status quo be altered.

In this status quo, where ‘honor killing’ is still upheld in some parts of the country, violence against women is no “big deal”. This is the reason why the Indian legislature has been dragging its feet in passing appropriate laws, police procedures that are gender biased have not been changed – and rape charges are no bar to being an elected representative. Concurrently the market driven media, cinema and the compulsion of globalization have created a seductive image of the woman as an object of the male gaze and related gratification.

In short the Indian eco-system that is an amalgam of the family, society, market and the state have assiduously nurtured a deep disregard for the individual identity, dignity, freedom and agency of women as a class. And where there appears to be a departure – for instance the vulnerable woman who is not appropriately ‘protected’ – male violence is accepted as a predictable response.

The challenge this time is to ensure that the churning which is taking place over the death of the brave heart in Singapore is channeled and given the appropriate directivity. Immediate remedial measures, apart from the need to ensure speedy and effective justice to the victims of gender violence, include a review of working conditions for women in both urban and rural India and a focus on safe public transport.

Delhi to its shame has not yet been able to fix its auto rickshaws and the private-bus mafia in most cities and towns has become a law unto itself. Police procedures and the need to induct more women in the force receive episodic attention – but the implementation remains abysmal.

Ultimately it is the social orientation that needs a radical change wherein the girl-child is not seen as a ‘burden’ but an equal member of the family, society and state. The challenge as the year ends on a tragic note is to recall the courage of the young girl who died in Singapore and commit the national will to atoning for this continuing atrocity against the more vulnerable gender.

and
Chronology of events;Timeline

Very good timeline. I note Chindu and other English media rags never gave the timeline which I was searching for.

New Delhi: Following is the chronology of the events leading up to filing of chargesheet in the case of gang rape and murder of the 23-year-old paramedical student:

December 16, 2012: A 23-year-old paramedical student is brutally gang-raped by six persons in a moving bus after she and her male friend board it on their way back from watching a movie in a south Delhi mall. Both of them are assaulted, stripped, robbed and thrown out of the bus.

December 17: Police arrest Ram Singh, the driver of the bus.

December 18: Delhi court sends Ram Singh to five-day police custody. Three others - Mukesh, Pawan Gupta and Vinay Sharma are arrested. Delhi High Court assures action in the case.

December 19: Court sends Pawan and Vinay to four-day police custody, while Mukesh is sent to judicial custody for his identification test. Delhi High Court takes suo motu cognizance of the gang rape incident and decides to monitor the probe. Victim's friend records statement in court. Another accused, a juvenile, is arrested in relation to the crime.

December 20: The male friend of the victim identifies one of the accused as the rapist in Tihar Jail during the TIP. The juvenile is sent to the Juvenile Justice Board.

December 21: Delhi HC slams city police for the report filed by it in the case. Another accused Akshay Thakur is arrested.

December 23: High Court says there will be day-to-day trial in all sexual assault cases in the capital. Ram Singh, Pawan and Vinay refuse to undergo identification test and are sent to Tihar jail for 14-day judicial custody.

December 25: Mukesh, brother of Ram, sent to Tihar jail till January 6.

December 26: Victim flown to a Singapore’s Mount Elizabeth Hospital. Government asks a retired Delhi High Court judge to probe the case. Victim's male friend identifies Akshay Thakur as one of the persons involved in the crime.

December 29: Victim dies in the Singapore’s Mount Elizabeth Hospital due to severe brain injury. She breathed her last at 4:45 AM (2:15 AM India time).

January 2: Fast track court to try sexual offence cases against women is inaugurated by Chief Justice of India Altamas Kabir. Owner of the bus, Dinesh Yadav, in which paramedic was brutally raped and assaulted, detained.

January 3: Delhi Police file chargesheet in a court here against the five men, slapping murder, rape, kidnapping, dacoity, destruction of evidence and other charges.

(Agencies)

and some good outcome for transforming Dilli Bullice -> to Delhi Police.

All Delhi Police stations to have 9 women officers

New Delhi: Each police station in Delhi will have two woman sub-inspectors and seven woman constables as part of enhanced policing measures in the backdrop of brutal gang rape of a girl in the capital.

Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde told reporters on Thursday that he had signed the file for appointing two woman sub-inspectors and seven woman constables in every police station in Delhi.

Shinde had announced earlier that all police stations in the capital will have woman police officials. The step was announced in the wake of public outrage over the gang rape of a 23-year-old girl in the capital on December 16. The girl died in a hospital in Singapore last week.

Delhi has 166 police stations. Officials said that a recruitment drive is likely to be undertaken for appointing more women personnel in police stations. The government has appointed a committee to strengthen laws for proving speedier justice and enhanced punishment in cases of aggravated sexual assault.

It has also appointed a Commission of Inquiry to look into the gruesome rape incident.

I would like the Minstry of Health to take up on urgent basis the upgradation of atleast one hosptial in the main seven Metros:Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkota, Chennai, Benguluru, Hyderabad, and Kochi if super specality hospital/wards to deal with sever trauma cases.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jan 2013 23:50

ramana et al, are you all saying that if all the convicted say converts to islam right away, will be pardoned by our minority-centric setup?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2013 00:00

Where did I say that?
I said the juvenile is double minority:in age and he is from a minortiy faith that has over sensitivity for the INC. If he were tried as an adult I say the very same commentators who are saying why is he treated as a juvenile will be saying there is travesty of justice and against the law to treat underage juveniles as adults. The disease in the commentators. In the West such a person would be treated as an adult and get the punishment he deserves.
In India due to debilitating vote bank policts and mental atrophy to see things clearly it will not be possible at this time. Lack of moral compass as I say earlier. And this induces paroxysms of rage among readers.

In fact thanks to the heinous nature of the crimes committed by this juvenile, the juvenile age is being reduced to 16 from 18. He should have that section of the law named in his dishonor.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 05 Jan 2013 00:14

People stared at us and left, but didn’t help: Delhi gang-rape victim’s friend

New Delhi: The male friend of the Delhi gang-rape victim - the only witness in the case - on Friday spoke for the first time in front of the nation and exclusively told Zee News that his friend was “positive” and wanted to live even after the horrific incident that took place on the night of December 16.

"I wish I could have saved her," the friend exclusively told Zee News Editor Sudhir Chaudhary.

The victim’s friend explained to Zee News in detail what exactly happened on that fateful night of December 16.

He said that no one came to their help after they were thrown off the bus by the six accused. Even after the police arrived, it took the cops over two hours to take them to hospital.

The victim’s friend said that since December 16, protests have been happening and people are on the streets. “Many things have come out in the media, but people have been interpreting it as per their convenience. I want to tell them what we faced that night. I want to tell what I faced, what my friend faced,” he told Zee News, expressing hope that people could take a lesson and save others’ lives in future.

He said that the six accused had lured them into boarding the bus on the night of December 16.

“The occupants of the bus, which had tinted windows and curtains, had laid a trap for us. They were probably involved in crimes before also. They beat us up, hit us with an iron rod, snatched our clothes and belongings and threw us off the bus on a deserted stretch.

“The bus occupants had everything planned. Apart from the driver and the helper, others behaved like they were passengers. We even paid Rs 20 as fare. They then started teasing my friend and it led to a brawl. I beat three of them up but then the rest of them brought an iron rod and hit me. Before I fell unconscious, they took my friend away.

“From where we boarded the bus, they moved around for nearly two and a half hours. We were shouting, trying to make people hear us. But they switched off the lights of the bus. We tried to resist them. Even my friend fought with them, she tried to save me. She tried to dial the police control room number 100, but the accused snatched her mobile away,” he said.

“Before throwing us off the bus, they snatched our mobiles and tore off our clothes in order to destroy any evidence of the crime,” he added.

“After throwing us off the bus, they tried to mow us down but I saved my friend by pulling her away in the nick of time. We were without clothes. We tried to stop passersby. Several auto rickshaws, cars and bikes slowed down but none stopped for about 25 minutes. Then, someone on patrolling, stopped and called the police,” he told Zee News.

The victim’s friend rued the fact that three PCR vans arrived at the scene after about 45 minutes, but wasted time in deciding under which police station’s jurisdiction the case fell.

He said nobody, including the police, gave them clothes or called an ambulance. “They were just watching us,” he said, adding that after repeated requests, someone gave him a part of a bed sheet to cover his friend.

“My friend was bleeding profusely; I was more concerned about her. But instead of taking us to a nearby hospital, they (police) took us to a hospital (Safdarjung) that was far away.”

The victim’s friend said that he carried his badly injured friend to the PCR van on his own as “the policemen didn’t help us because my friend girl was bleeding profusely and they were probably worried about their clothes”.

“Nobody from the public helped us. People were probably afraid that if they helped us, they would become witnesses to the crime and would be asked to come to the police station and court,” he told the channel.

“Even at the hospital, we were made to wait and I had to literally beg for clothes. I asked one ‘safai karamchari’ to give me some clothes or curtains and he asked me to wait. But the clothes never came. I then borrowed a stranger’s mobile and called my relatives, but just told them that I had met with an accident. My treatment started only after my relatives came,” he said.

“I was hit on the head. I was not able to walk. I was not able to move my hands for two weeks,” he said, detailing the injuries he suffered on that horrific night.

“My family wanted to take me to our native place but I decided to stay in Delhi in order to help the police. It was only after the doctors’ advice that I went back to my home and started private treatment there.”

“When I had met my friend in the hospital, she was smiling. She was able to write and was positive. I never felt that she did not want to live,” he said.

“She had told me that if I wasn’t there, she would not have filed the complaint. I had decided that I would ensure the culprits are punished,” the victim’s friend said.

He said that his friend was also worried about the cost of the treatment. “I was asked to be with her to give her strength.”

“When she gave the first statement to the lady SDM, only then I came to know what had happened with her. I couldn’t believe what they did to her. Even when animals hunt, they don’t mete out such brutality to their prey.

“She faced all of this and told the magistrate that the accused should not be hanged but burnt to death.”

“The first statement she gave to the SDM was correct. She had given that statement with a lot of effort. She was coughing and bleeding while giving the statement. She was on ventilator support. There was no pressure or interference at all. But when the SDM said that she had faced pressure, all her (friend’s) efforts went in vain. It is wrong to say that the statement was made under pressure,” the victim’s friend told Zee News.

When asked what suggestions he would like to give in order to ensure that such incidents don’t recur, the victim’s friend said, “The police should always try to ensure that the victims are taken to the hospital as early as possible and not waste precious time looking for government hospitals. Also, witnesses should not be harassed so that they come to the court to testify.”

He said that one cannot change mindsets by lighting candles. "You have to help people on the road when they need help,” he added.

“Protest and change should not only be for her but for the coming generations as well.”

The victim’s friend said that he wanted the Justice Verma committee - set up by the government to suggest measures to improve women’s security - to make the law easier for complainants.

“I would like to tell Justice JS Verma, Justice Leila Seth and Gopal Subramanium that we have a lot of laws, but the public is afraid of going to police as they wonder whether the police will register an FIR or not. You are trying to start fast-track courts for one issue, but why shouldn’t every case be fast tracked,” he said.

He further said that “only he can tell what he has gone through… what I have faced…”

He disclosed that “no one from the government has contacted me so far to ask about my treatment. I have been paying for my own treatment so far.”

When asked why people don’t want to talk about such issues in public, the victim’s friend said, “In our society, we try to hide such things. If something bad has happened with us, then we try to hide thinking what will the other person say. Also because our friends and relatives talk behind our back about such incidents, that we try to prevent them from becoming public.”

“If I had decided not to file the complaint and just call the incident an accident, this case would not have become this big.”

He rued the people’s indifference towards him and his friend when they were lying on the road. “They (the people) had cars, they could have taken us to the hospital. Every minute was important for us. But they didn’t. Who will change this attitude?” he asked.

He said his mental condition was so bad after the incident that he was not able to sleep properly. “I didn’t share this with anyone. When such a thing happens to us, we often ask ourselves: ‘Am I to blame for this? Why did I go to the mall? Why did I board that bus?’ I was not able to even speak properly for two weeks.”

He said that if his friend was “treated in a better hospital, she would have probably been alive today.” It may be noted that the gang-rape victim was first treated at the Safdarjung Hospital before being shifted to a hospital in Singapore, where she passed away.

He went on to say that one of the police officials wanted him to say that the police were doing a good job in the case.

“Why did they want to take credit for doing their duty? If everyone does their work well, nothing more needs to be said in the matter,” he said.

"We have a long battle to fight," he said further, adding, “If I didn't have lawyers in my family, I would not have been able to fight this.”

The victim’s friend also told Zee News, "I was in the police station for four days rather than being in a hospital where I would be treated. I told my friends that I had met with an accident."

"The internal judgement of the Delhi Police should prompt them to assess for themselves if they have done a good job or not," he added.

"If you can help someone, help them. If a single person had helped me that night, things would have been different. There is no need to close Metro stations and stop the public from expressing themselves. People should be allowed to have faith in the system," he went on to say.

"I never had thoughts of leaving her and running away. Even an animal would not do that. I have no regrets. But I wish I could have done something to help her."

“She has awakened us. If we can carry on this fight with her name, it would be tribute to her,” he said.

Here is the video of the friend of the girl speaking to Zee TV in an exclusive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75uMQgSAtJU

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 05 Jan 2013 00:37

It is pretty clear from that they they were just friends not officially fiance or anything. The divide between the two cultures could not be more stark.
Their only crime was to try and have some entertainment in Delhi.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 05 Jan 2013 00:51

Theo_Fidel wrote: The divide between the two cultures could not be more stark.

Their only crime was to try and have some entertainment in Delhi.

No they are from the same culture, if you see, one of the persons also has had a extra marital affair, a very progressive thing no doubt.

Their crime was not being careful about which bus to get into, not entertainment. An attack by these could (and did also) happen to a person returning from work. Since then there has been at least one more rapes in "progressive cultured people with the victim and the perps being from the love marriage culture"

Please do not try and add unnecessary masala to a very sad event to settle your pet peeves.

It is most unbecoming and a insult to the victim, not to mention to give fodder to those who try and pass of these issues as "difference in culture"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2013 00:54

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is pretty clear from that they they were just friends not officially fiance or anything. The divide between the two cultures could not be more stark.Their only crime was to try and have some entertainment in Delhi.

Come again? Whose culture? What are you implying?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 05 Jan 2013 01:01

Ramana Ji, Theo i think means the 2 ways of interpretation on 2 people going out an evening. One culture interprets it as being engaged (about to get married), the other it's just an evening out with a friend.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 05 Jan 2013 01:16

Intestinal transplant saves man's life

Gurgaon, Jan 4 (IANS) A team of 30 doctors at Medanta Hospital successfully transplanted the intestines of a 30-year-old man in November 2012, a hospital spokesperson said here Friday.

The 10-hour surgery was conducted by a team of 30 doctors in Nov 2012 at the Medanta Hospital in Gurgaon, the spokesperson said.

I thought the girl was taken to S'pore as India doesnt have such intestinal transplant facilities.
Strange, there is this hospital capable of doing such surgeries in Gurgaon which is close to Delhi.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2013 01:22

Its the same Medanta hospital from which the unfortunate victim was sent to Singapore as Sheila Dixit didnt want her to die in India.

So again news comes out that contradicts the Govt position.

Recall MMS had a cabinet meeting to shift the victim to Singapore.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2013 01:28

Pioneer op-ed

Culture supports Rape Inc.
Dont know what to say when thinking people say this!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jan 2013 01:56

Some more details of the incident.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 892953.cms

Delhi gang-rape victim's friend: Cops wasted 30 minutes arguing about jurisdiction
TNN | Jan 5, 2013, 12.54 AM IST
NEW DELHI: While Nirbhaya's brutal gang-rape horrified the nation, the events that followed the crime revealed shocking callousness on the part of both citizens and the police. In his first public statement, Nirbhaya's friend said on Friday that the two of them lay naked on the road for more than two hours with people stopping to look at them and then moving on.

"My friend was grievously injured and bleeding profusely. Cars, autos and bikes slowed down and sped away. I kept waving for help. The ones who stopped stared at us, discussing what could have happened. Nobody did anything," he said in an interview to Zee News channel.

According to the friend, the apathy did not end even after the police entered the scene. Three PCR vans arrived at the spot. Then, in an exhibition of mindless, totally insensitive bureaucratic behaviour, the cops spent the next half-hour arguing over whose jurisdiction the crime fell under, he said.

"The police did not pick us up. One of them tore a sheet and offered it to me to cover my friend. In my injured state, I picked her up and put her in the PCR van," said the friend, narrating his story with poise and composure.

"The police took us to Safdarjung Hospital rather than going to the nearest private hospital. Had it not been late at night when there's hardly any traffic on the roads, my friend would have died that very day," he said.

Appearing on camera with his right leg still in a cast, the software engineer recounted the treatment meted out to him at Safdarjung Hospital. "When we reached the hospital, I sat without clothes on the floor for a long time even as my friend was taken inside for treatment."

He said for the next four days, he lay on a stretcher in the police station, where he was not provided any treatment or counselling. In fact, he added that his treatment was being done at a private hospital on his own expense.

Speaking about the heinous crime, he said the accused tricked them into boarding the bus, which had black film on the windows and curtains. "First, three of them came passing lewd comments. I fought with them. Then two more came with a rod. They hit me even as my friend was trying to shield me. We both kept shouting for help," he said.

The bus drove through the city for around two-and-a-half hours while the two were being attacked, the youth said.

Asked about the move to shift Nirbhaya to Singapore for treatment, he said it was an opportunistic decision aimed at controlling the protests. "When they thought the pressure was too much to handle, they moved her to Singapore. Had she been taken to a good hospital in the first place, she would have been alive."

He said Nirbhaya was so determined to see that the guilty are punished that she fought through her pain and gave her statement to the SDM twice. "She gave all details of the crime to the magistrate — things we can't even talk about. She told me that the culprits should be burnt alive."

"I never thought she won't live. She used to smile when I visited her. She used to tell her family not to worry. She asked about expenses. She was attached to her roots as any other commoner," he said.

On whether the police chief should step down, he avoided a direct answer, saying, "I don't want to ask them to resign. But if the SHO or the ACP or the DCP or the police commissioner realize they had lacked in their duty somewhere, they should resign on moral grounds. They should go on their own."

He urged the protesters to keep up the pressure on the authorities, saying that is the only way things could change. "Change won't happen by lighting candles, we need to change ourselves too. I feel everything was happening under the pressure of the protests. When the pressure was high, officials and politicians visited."

Significantly, he was not in favour of naming the new law on sexual offences after his friend. Instead, he said, the existing laws should be implemented properly. "We have enough laws. And laws do not have anything to do with name. The common people don't associate with the name or the sections; justice is more important for them. They should focus more on implementing laws and ensuring safety of the people."

The friend, who has been under counselling to overcome the trauma, said he was haunted by the events of December 16. "I can't forget that night or what happened after that. I keep blaming myself, thinking I should have not done this or that."

PCR has no jurisdiction issue. Strange that they argued about this.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Jan 2013 02:00

Rape protests spread beyond IndiaDemonstrators in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh join protest movement against sexual violence

Here come the Cultures Destroying Vultures

Protests against sexual violence are spreading across south Asia as anger following the gang rape and death of a 23-year-old medical student in Delhi courses through the region.Inspired by the rallies and marches staged across India for nearly three weeks, demonstrations have also been held in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh – all countries where activists say women suffer high levels of sexual and domestic violence.In Nepal, the case of a 21-year-old woman who says she was raped and threatened with death by a police officer and robbed by immigration officials, prompted hundreds of demonstrators to converge on the prime minister's residence in Kathmandu. They called for legal reforms and an overhaul of attitudes to women."We had seen the power of the mass campaign in Delhi's rape case. It is a pure people's movement," said Anita Thapa, one of the demonstrators.Bandana Rana, a veteran Nepalese activist, described the ongoing protests in Delhi as "eye-opening". "A few years back, women even talking about sexual violence or even domestic violence was a very rare," she said.Sultana Kamal, of the Bangladeshi human rights group Ain o Salish Kendra (ASK), said the protests in Delhi had given fresh impetus to protests against sexual violence.
One incident that has provoked anger in Bangladesh was the alleged gang rape of a teenager by four men over four days in early December in Tangail, 40 miles north-west of Dhaka. The men were said to have made videos of the attack before leaving their victim near a rail track where she was eventually found by her brother.On Friday a teenager who was said to have been repeatedly raped in a hotel died in hospital in Dhaka of injuries sustained when she subsequently tried to take her own life.But despite the widespread anger, the social stigma attached to rape victims remains a major problem throughout the region.Although Bangladesh police arrested suspects in both the cases and investigations are under way, activists fear that corruption as well as deep-seated misogyny among investigating officers and the judiciary make convictions unlikely.According to ASK's statistics, at least 1,008 women were raped in 2012 in Bangladesh, of whom 98 were later killed.Khushi Kabir, one of the organisers of a "human chain" in Dhaka to protest against violence to women, said its aim was "to show that people are not going to just let this [movement] die down".Kabir said although previous demonstrations on similar issues were largely dominated by women, men were now protesting too. The protests had also drawn people from a broad range of society. "We had lawyers, schoolchildren, teachers, theatre activists and personalities, industrialists," she said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2013 02:21

Lilo, How is the twitter site going? What are the stats?: number of tweets, retweets and followers

My feedback:
Also my account is flooded with the large number of tweets which is a shame in itself. Is there a way we can capture the tweets per day on one page and tweet that may be three or four times a day? I don't want people to unsubscribe as they get flooded by the sorry state of affairs.

It has been an eye-opener for me the number of serious offences agaisnt women in India already reported in media. And then multiply by five or ten for the unreported ones.