Artillery: News & Discussion

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 20 Jun 2014 18:57

Based on few posts made above here comes very personal views from a non expert and OT so...

If the Indian Army / IAF / IN were to accept a product not up to specifications stated by them but made in India what would happen?

I can only make a guess. And my guess is the PSU's / MOD etc will say - ' You accepted it, live with it.'

IMO, a case in point- INSAS was with IA for over a decade (first in 1990). It was a home grown system which should have been further developed and made equal to the best in the world while still in use by the IA. How come we were unable to make it a world class rifle all these years? We are attempting Mars aren't we? That is rocket science. Gun Making should have been easier.

Those who say "If IA/IAF/IN can not fight with Indian made weapons let them die fighting with what nation can produce. " - IMO, presently, that is what "they" have been doing. Our weapons and systems are fairly old. The national objectives / ambitions and the enemies weapon systems plus war fighting have all upgraded. Which is why we are modernizing. We use imported stuff, mostly imported because the home grown products were / are not available. Today, the change is visible. Home grown weapons are coming in. The usage has started. They will increase (just like % component built in India, on various Indian platforms increase over time) in time, but I am afraid 100% may never happen. IMO, IA should always insist on meeting specifications. This is why we will be world class and not some sub standard rifle manufacturing center. If we had upgraded these guns in time, at least the Nepalese Army would have been a happy customer (source: Wikipedia)

Finally, I don't think "they" fight to 'die fighting' but to win. Why? Because, we (and "they") want to win. We shouldn't fight a war to die. No. I think we all dream of ourselves as a citizen of a very powerful India (Superpower, if you may). So get out of the idea of dying and equip the Army to win. Change your attitude.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 20 Jun 2014 20:28

deejay wrote:Finally, I don't think "they" fight to 'die fighting' but to win. Why? Because, we (and "they") want to win. We shouldn't fight a war to die. No. I think we all dream of ourselves as a citizen of a very powerful India (Superpower, if you may). So get out of the idea of dying and equip the Army to win. Change your attitude.

Well said, fight to win and not fight to die.
Who cares for the source of the weapon. If it is indigenous then icing on the cake

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2014 12:18

All these years China has been arming its soldiers with suspect quality but indigenous weapons(The only imported arms were mostly to make copies or ones it could absolutely not make). Despite the quality of its weapons, its belligerence even picking up fights with more powerful enemies. If we stop caring about where our weapons are coming from then we are consigned to remain a "major power in South Asia".

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 21 Jun 2014 13:17

abhik wrote:Despite the quality of its weapons, its belligerence even picking up fights with more powerful enemies.

Its not about the quality of the weapon but its economic might and being a large market for lots of western companies that gives it the ability to show belligerence against its neighbours with impunity. Further none of its neighbours are so called powerful enemies (keeping India out of it for now). Further going for indigenous weapons in not by choice but compulsion and it still buys a lot of Russian equipment (recent talks about Su-35) and reverse engineer a lot of them and make many more carbon copies and again with total impunity.

Just check its economic data vis-a-vis India (massive difference). Further the smartest thing they did was not to indulge in any kind of conflicts (not necessarily military conflicts ) with any of its neighbour for the last 30-35 years and focussed on economy and industrialization and it is only now that it has started showing belligerence against its neighbours from a position of massive strength [West needs China more than the other way round]

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 21 Jun 2014 13:22

abhik ji, (OT) no one says we should only import. All that is being said is equip correctly. The argument that anything developed in India is OK, is incorrect. The Chinese get the best from Russia (S 400). Even today. They have been at it for longer and are at a much advanced stage of the development curve. This shows in their increased aggression. Besides, they have been part of the 'Big Boys' for a long time, with Nukes, ICBM's and what not. Their Jets were copies and only recently have they broken into the indigenous design club here. We decided not to copy (mostly).

The nuclear deterrence alone will not stop an aggressive Chinese. IA, has its task cut out. To alleviate chances of near term or even later conflicts with the dragon, let us match them by hook or crook. Equipment we have must be good to instill the fear of Indians in the PLA. IA should stick to its Guns (pun intended), because, IMO, it understands best what we need to do to counter the Chinese. The threat is real therefore the new Mountain Strike Corps.

Let not the need to develop mil-ind complex be the be all and end all for having an Army. The IA exists for its own purposes. The need for an mil-ind complex is acute but so is the need for well furbished IA. These guns for the IA were tested in Sikkim. The Chinese have noticed. Let us understand that finally IA and the Defence PSU's are not working at cross purposes.

Also, the Guns will be good for our friends - Vietnam for one and IMO they need it urgently. And yes let us first establish our superiority in South Asia. Even our neighbours are turning to China (ignore TSP as it will turn (in)to hell to oppose us).

arijitkm · Post by **arijitkm** » 21 Jun 2014 16:59

‘Dhanush’ clears Final Trials in Pokhran.

After a three-decade long wait, the Army will soon get to add a 155-mm artillery gun, with the Ordnance Factory-built ‘Dhanush’ successfully clearing its final trials on Friday at Khetolai in Pokhran close to the border along Pakistan in Rajasthan’s desert.

Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh, who is also in charge of the Ordnance Factory, was present when the final tests were carried out. Several senior Army officers from the headquarters presided over the trials, defence sources told Express.

Singh was briefed on the weapon at the test site. Now the gun will go through a set of summer trials at the Pokhran firing ranges.

‘Dhanush’ is the first made-in-India version of the Swedish Bofors gun, bought in the late 1980s.

The 45-calibre gun went through winter trials in the high altitudes of Sikkim last year. The towed artillery gun is based on the design and manufacturing technology provided by Bofors in the late 1980s.

After Friday’s Pokhran trials, its makers will get the final clearance to manufacture the local, but improved version of the original 39-calibre Bofors gun and fill a critical gap in Army’s artillery inventory.
More importantly, it is likely to be priced at `14 crore a piece, less than half the price of a similar gun made abroad. The Bofors gun has a maximum effective range of 27 km, but sources said ‘Dhanush’ can fire a salvo up to 38 km in the plains.

For more than 15 years, the Army’s plan to modernise its weapons has been mired in delays and allegations of corruption.
...........

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 291439.ece

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2014 17:48

dhiraj wrote:Its not about the quality of the weapon but its economic might and being a large market for lots of western companies that gives it the ability to show belligerence against its neighbours with impunity.

I'm not talking just about its recent behaviour, but historically(for example taking on the USA in Korea in the 50's) even when they were piss poor.

... reverse engineer a lot of them and make many more carbon copies and again with total impunity.

Making carbon copies is their strategy to free themselves of dependency on foreign weapons.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2014 18:28

deejay wrote:abhik ji, (OT) no one says we should only import. All that is being said is equip correctly. The argument that anything developed in India is OK, is incorrect.

The military will need to start being content with 'good-enough', they will end up being better armed than they are currently.

.. Besides, they have been part of the 'Big Boys' for a long time, with Nukes, ICBM's and what not. Their Jets were copies and only recently have they broken into the indigenous design club here. We decided not to copy (mostly).

They are part of the 'Big Boys' club because they thought they were a 'Big Boy'. They were making multiple fighters, ICBMs, bombers, subs etc even in the years their GDP was less than ours. To say that we should get our arms from anywhere possible belies the fact that we don't think of ourselves as being in the same league of a country like Algeria.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 21 Jun 2014 19:30

Winter trial were super successful, summer trails started today. Army wants to buy 1500 guns but will order 116 if summer orders are successful. And will order additional 300. Each desi gun will cost around 14 cr (range 38 km) as compared to imported 30 cr (range 27 km).

Guys let keep our fingers crossed that week long trails are successful as today is the first day. OFB is already working on to increase the capacity from existing 18 a year (no number mentioned).

Speculation :
It seems from other report that first day was a hit (50% OK). But lets wait for others tests which will be done in next days.

पोखरण की भीषण गर्मी में हो रही "धनुष" की अग्निपरीक्षा

नई दिल्ली। बोफोर्स तोप की तकनीक से बनाए गए भारतीय तोप के ग्रीष्मकालीन परीक्षण राजस्थान की पोखरण फायरिंग रेंज में शुरू हो गए हैं।

सेना के उच्च पदस्थ सूत्रों ने बताया कि 115 एमएमकी 45 कैलीबर वाली इस देसी बोफोर्स ने शीतकालीन परीक्षणों में अपनी ताकत साबित कर दी है और अब इसकी अग्निपरीक्षा आग उगलते राजस्थान के रेगिस्तानी रणक्षेत्र में ली जा रही है।

"धनुष" नाम की इस तोप के शीतकालीन परीक्षण सिक्किम में पिछले साल हुए थे और अब सात दिन तक चलने वाली गर्मियों के परीक्षण में यह तोप खरी उतरती है तो आर्डिने ंस फैक्ट्री बोर्ड ..ओएफबी.. को इनके निर्माण के लिए हरी झंडी मिल जाएगी।

भारतीय रक्षा वैज्ञानिकों और इंजीनियरों ने यह देसी बोफोर्स स्वीडन से अस्सी के दशक में हासिल हुई प्रौद्योगिकी के इस्तेमाल से तैयार की है। भारतीय सेना को पिछले 28 साल से कोई नई तोप मयस्सर नहीं हुई है और इस अकाल को दूर करने के लिए ओएफबी ने देश में ही उन्नत बोफोर्स बनाने का निर्णय लिया था। स्वीडन से आयात की गई बोफोर्स तोपें 39 कैलीबर की थीं।

सूत्रों ने बताया कि रक्षा राज्य मंत्री राव इंद्रजीत सिंह खुद पोखरण रेंज गए हैं। सेना को इस तरह की डेढ़ हजार से अधिक तोपों की जरूरत है, जिनकी खरीदारी पर करीब 10 हजार करोड रूपये लागत आने का अनुमान है। यदि ओएफबी की तोपें सेना के परीक्षणों में खरी उतरती हैं तो देश को आर्थिक रूप से भी हजारों करोड़ का फायदा होगा।

इस तोप की कीमत करीब 14 करोड़ रूपये आने का अनुमान है जबकि विदेशी तोप की कीमत लगभग 30 करोड़ रूपये बैठती है। भारतीय सेना में बोफोर्स तोपें 1986 में आईं थीं और इसके बादसे ये तोपें बोफोर्स घोटाले का पर्याय बन गई। बोफोर्स घोटाले का यह काला साया राजनीतिक नेतृत्व पर खौफ बनकर मंडराया और एक के बाद एक बनने वाली सरकारों ने तोपों से तौबा कर ली।

38 किलोमीटर मारक क्षमता
ऎसे में अचानक राजनीतिक नेतृत्व की नींद टूटी और करोडों रूपये की अदायगी से हासिल की गई बोफोर्स तोपों की प्रौद्योगिकी से भारतीय तोप बनाने का निर्णय लिया गया। सेना ने शुरूआत में ओएफबी से 116 तोपें लेने की मंशा जाहिर की है।

सूत्रों ने कहा कि अगर भारतीय तोपें मानकों पर खरी उतरी तो इस आर्डर में 300 तोपें और जोडी जाएंगी। अभी ओएफबी के पास हर साल इस तरह की 18 तोपें बनाने की क्षमता है और समझा जाता है कि इस क्षमता को बढ़ाने की तैयारियां भी चल रही हैं। स्वीडन से ली गई बोफोर्स तोपों की मारक क्षमता 27 किलोमीटर है जबकि भारतीय बोफोर्स की रेंज 38 किलोमीटर होगी।

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 21 Jun 2014 19:39

The Chinese have always copied Russian maal starting from PPSh to AK series, MiGs, tanks, subs, missiles, rockets with a wink and nod from the same Russians who will cry bloody murder when we try it in even a tiny way (A7). Our swadeshi stuff is such that even Assam Police uses Norinco-made AK-47s captured from Bodos rather than Insas because they want to live thru a gunfight.

Same with J&K police and even RR I'm sure. Only in a totally phukked up situation would a country accept something this outrageous but we happily continue with aal ij well onlee and completely refuse to let anyone else other than union-blackmailed and thoroughly corrupt PSUs make weapons. Insane is too charitable a word.

No doubt Dhanush news is a tiny ray of hope but I'm more interested in seeing what our response is to the Kalyan and Tata guns because that's where our salvation lies, not in PSU science projects.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Jun 2014 20:51

A 45 cal Howitzer clearing trials is a "science project", LOL nice.. as versus guns which have not been trialled.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jun 2014 20:59

LT, nexter and AL have signed up in eurosatory to make and offer the ceaser gun on AL 6x6 for the wheeled part of the never ending muharram.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Jun 2014 21:46

The biggest benefit for Dhanush lies somewhere else apart from filling the requirement for modern howitzer - It gives the critical time required for DRDO to develop a 155/52mm gun. DRDO has appropriated a time of 3-years to develop this but I don't see it happening before 5 years. Even that is a very good time-frame.

The way I see it - Dhanush will start entering service and this will allow IA to replace older pieces of artillery in either 105mm or 130mm class. When 155/52 mm gun matures, this gun will become the main gun to be inducted into the army to gain major technological transformation.

Consider various types of platforms we need, ideal scenario should be as follows:

1. SP-Tracked and SP-Wheeled - this should be the same gun turret mounted on different platforms. But the way things are placed at present, apart from Germans PhZ-2000, no platform comes with wheeled and tracked options. One positive development can be again going for G6 Turret on Arjun chassis; South Africans also have the wheeled version which can completed Arjun/T6 combination. There is another tangential benefit of this arrangement in the mounted gun system.

2. Mounted Gun System - The TATA mounted gun uses the Denel/South African gun from the same family as Bhim SP and their wheeled SP gun. If the Bhim SP+Wheeled SP are chosen, we will have certain bit of commonality between three platforms. Lets not forget that Mounted Gun System is the second largest category at 800+ units after the towed gun. However, the cache here is that TATA gun is way heavier than CAESAR - unless the requirement is for MGS to be air-transportable in C-130 class of aircraft, I don't see why TATA should not win (of course, subject to meeting technical requirement).

In an ideal scenario, the planned DRDO gun should form the common architecture for all guns to be employed by Indian Army - from Tracked to Wheeled to MGS to Towed. But time differential between development of DRDO gun might not allow it.

But there is another opportunity - now that Dhanush has been given OK, it can form the platform for developing a mounted version as well.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2014 21:57

arijitkm wrote:‘Dhanush’ clears Final Trials in Pokhran.
After a three-decade long wait, the Army will soon get to add a 155-mm artillery gun, with the Ordnance Factory-built ‘Dhanush’ successfully clearing its final trials on Friday at Khetolai in Pokhran close to the border along Pakistan in Rajasthan’s desert.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 291439.ece

RKumar wrote:Winter trial were super successful, summer trails started today. ...
पोखरण की भीषण गर्मी में हो रही "धनुष" की अग्निपरीक्षा

So are the actually trials over or not?

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 21 Jun 2014 22:28

More details in this report by Rajat Pandit

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 922267.cms

NEW DELHI: In a major boost to defence indigenisation, the desi Bofors howitzer has now entered its final round of user-trials in Pokhran field firing ranges after successful winter trials in the mountains of Sikkim.

The artillery gun christened 'Dhanush', which is the electronically upgraded indigenous version of the original Swedish 155 mm Bofors howitzer bought by India in the mid-1980s, has already entered the production phase at the Jabalpur Gun Carriage Factory of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

Both the Army and OFB, in fact, are "quite excited" about Dhanush, which they claim performs "20-25% better" than the original Bofors gun in virtually all parameters like range, accuracy, consistency, low and high angle of fire and shoot-and-scoot ability.

"It outclassed the Bofors during the trials in Sikkim at sub-zero temperatures at 11,500 feet altitude," said an official. The final summer trials, in turn, are being held from June 16 to 30 at Pokhran. There was a slight setback to the project when the barrel of a Dhanush prototype had burst during firing trials at Pokhran in August last year. But officials contend it was the use of "old ammunition with air bubbles" that led to the accident. "The inquiry established there was no fault with the barrel or its metallurgy," he said.

The Army hopes to plug at least some of its operational gaps in long-range, high-volume firepower through the initial induction of 414 Dhanush guns. The OFB has already been given an order of over Rs 1,260 crore to make 114 howitzers.

"Dhanush is around 80% indigenous now. It costs just about Rs 14 crore apiece. Only its APU (auxiliary power unit), electronic dial sights and a few other small items are imported. As per the plan, OFB will manufacture 18 howitzers in this financial year, followed by 50 in the next, and 100 per year thereafter," said the official.

Dhanush has been upgraded to 45-calibre from the 39-calibre of the original Bofors gun, increasing its strike range to 38 km with "extended range, full-bore" ammunition. The Army-OFB team began work a few years ago on the long-forgotten original designs, obtained under transfer of technology (ToT) provisions in the infamous Rs 1,437 crore Bofors contract of 1986, to develop the Dhanush.

The Army now hopes the howitzer will boom soon in its inventory. The force, after all, has failed to induct even a single 155 mm howitzer for 30 years after the infamous Bofors scam, which in later years got reinforced by scandals around other artillery manufacturers like South African Denel, Israeli Soltam and Singapore Technology Kinetic's (STK) to derail all its artillery modernization plans.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 21 Jun 2014 23:44

Good news. The old ammunition part is interesting too. Hopefully the testing of artillery pieces will now be done without such hiccups.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 21 Jun 2014 23:46

Even the etranal ch@@tiya RP is not writing anything bad. The only bad thing he writes is to actually prove that last year, there was no fault with the gun.

Acche din aa gaye

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 21 Jun 2014 23:50

I hope TATA gets into building a turret ASAP for this gun. As per the news their MGS has everything indigenous including ballistic computer and other assorted electronics, the only part imported was the gun. If TATA can develop a turret, the same can be used for MGS as well as tracked (if G6 can come from wheeled to track to become Bhim, so can the turret build by TATA)

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 22 Jun 2014 00:08

I think Dhanush might be ordered in more numbers sometime in the near future. It is a world class piece of hardware. This will probably form the bulk of our 155mm towed inventory. 100/year is awesome.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Jun 2014 07:07

With danush you don't really need to develop the 52 call from clean sheet. All you need to work on would be the barrel and the recoil handling, along with new FCS.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Jun 2014 08:22

This is great news.The production rate to jump from 50-100 will be fabulous,especially if there are friendly nations like Vietnam,etc. who also require such arty. One could also farm out the tech to pvt. industry who also have the capability to produce the gun if larger numbers are required in a faster timeframe.OFB could like any foreign manufacturer charge a royalty.There was another report a couple of days ago about L&T teaming up with Ashok Leyland for the truck mounted howitzer being developed with Nexter.If this too is found acceptable to the IA it will be another feather in our cap of indigenisation.As mentioned in an above post,further extending the range through barrel modifications and later on perhaps with ER munitions,will see us plug this huge hole in the capabilities of the IA.Pimaka seems to be doing well with the upgraded version undergoing trials too,and for the LR MBRL role,Smerch has already been inducted.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 22 Jun 2014 09:35

Pratyush wrote:With danush you don't really need to develop the 52 call from clean sheet. All you need to work on would be the barrel and the recoil handling, along with new FCS.

Dhanush itself is not clean sheet design being a copy from Bofors blueprints so caliber upgrade may not as simple as it may seem.

Still, if Dhanush is indeed ready and OFB is able to make 100 per month as Pandit claims, it is indeed good news and partially exonerates OFB for sitting on the Bofors blueprints and ToT for 30 years while the army ran from pillar to post begging for guns. Heads still need to roll for that.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jun 2014 09:59

Bofors 155 BONUS - Artillery delivered 155mm sensor-fuzed m

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 22 Jun 2014 10:26

Why isn't the Kalyani 52 cal gun being considered, instead of DRDO trying to develop it afresh?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 22 Jun 2014 10:30

So if everything goes to plan we can have about 400 Dhanush guns by 2020. Not Bad. Hopefully the Bharat Forge gun also gets an order to deliver parallely.

Picklu wrote:I hope TATA gets into building a turret ASAP for this gun. As per the news their MGS has everything indigenous including ballistic computer and other assorted electronics, the only part imported was the gun. If TATA can develop a turret, the same can be used for MGS as well as tracked (if G6 can come from wheeled to track to become Bhim, so can the turret build by TATA)

There is no turret developed by Tata. Their contribution is only the truck(which is nothing special) and the 'Ballistic computer' (What exactly is it?).

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 22 Jun 2014 10:59

Kakkaji wrote:Why isn't the Kalyani 52 cal gun being considered, instead of DRDO trying to develop it afresh?

Yes I wonder when they will allow the Kalyani 52 to be tested. Bharat Forge has fantastic skills in metallurgy and forging I am sure they would have done a superb job on this gun.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 22 Jun 2014 13:02

^^^ This cussedness of the babus (both civilian and military) in ganging up against India's private sector in defence production ensures that both continue to ride on the gravy train -- civilian babus through monopoly (jobs assured; corruption opportunities) and military babus through imports, with attendant commissions and Natashas. Modi must intervene to end this 60 year old racket and open defence production to private firms. We can emerge as a major exporter of weapons. Babus and generals would otherwise continue to ensure that we remain the biggest importers. It is amazing that the Government has no problem in opening defence production 100 percent to foreign firms, but not to Indian firms. Why?

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 22 Jun 2014 13:09

Why the slow rate of production? This slow rate is killing on two fronts - Opens doors for import lobby and eliminates export potential!

We should make 300 guns per year to save money through volume production and build capacity to export worldwide within 3~4 years at low cost.

At this price we will be the most cost effective choice worldwide for artillery guns.

Obviously, this is a private enterprise way of thinking not a government owned gun factory way of doing things.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Jun 2014 13:30

Isn't it possible to do TOT to private sector players interested in gun manufacture for increased production rates ?
Except for scared babooze, no one should have any objection.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 22 Jun 2014 13:36

Interesting note on the APU on Desi Bofors -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haubits_FH77
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_B18_engine#B20

The FH77 is powered by a Volvo B20 Auxiliary power unit (APU). The engine is connected to three hydraulic pumps, of which two pumps are linked to the wheels and one is used for a traverse, elevation, ramming and ammunition crane

APU is of 1970's lineage, seems ripe to be easily replaced by an off the shelf domestic built engine block.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 22 Jun 2014 17:23

SanjayC wrote:^^^ This cussedness of the babus (both civilian and military) in ganging up against India's private sector in defence production ensures that both continue to ride on the gravy train -- civilian babus through monopoly (jobs assured; corruption opportunities) and military babus through imports, with attendant commissions and Natashas. Modi must intervene to end this 60 year old racket and open defence production to private firms. We can emerge as a major exporter of weapons. Babus and generals would otherwise continue to ensure that we remain the biggest importers. It is amazing that the Government has no problem in opening defence production 100 percent to foreign firms, but not to Indian firms. Why?

Agree 100%. Let the OFB guys have their 400 gun order. Get the Kalyani gun into trials and within 1 year have successful evaluation and orders in the 1000s.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Jun 2014 17:37

If all the orders go to OFB then how will the Babus get kickbacks, hain Ji? it is for this reason only that Pvt sector will get some orders.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 22 Jun 2014 17:56

Great news abt desi Dhanush clearing summer trials; I think only stage left is IA DGQA clearance for manufacturing and quality assurance on the production line. Seems all tests are finally done ! I agree that OFB production pace is low, and others should also get orders to increase production rates. OFB work share of 400 can be protected, after all, the desi Dhanush is their baby! There is significant differences b/w this and Swedish Bofors, and even though ToT money paid by India in full, we did not get all technology from Sweden. Significant differences exist in Barrel, Breech Block , APU , etc. and performances vary greatly. I hope no IPR/ royalty/license be paid to BAE Systems, that they should not be encouraged much.

Nik's post about Volvo B18 Engine -

B18/20 seems to be petrol engine, chaiwalla info that the IA Bofors uses a Mercedes diesel engine.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 22 Jun 2014 20:00

OFB is going to be finished. Wouldn't be surprised if it is sold off too some pvt. Perhaps they may be confined to producing ammo or something. DRDO may turn into a DARPA like agency. Amazing how things are picking up just 4 weeks into Modi's term.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 22 Jun 2014 20:14

DRDO may turn into a DARPA like agency. Amazing how things are picking up just 4 weeks into Modi's term.

Perfect way to go forward. DRDO should focus only on current & next-gen R&D. Once basic tech is developed simply outsource it and then forget about its production/further evolution/refinement/exports etc.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 22 Jun 2014 22:09

I believe that DRDO scientists are first rate but the OFB production is worse than third rate because the workers, in general, are having a chalta-hai attitude or worse.

I support the privatisation of OFB.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 22 Jun 2014 22:54

dhiraj wrote:
DRDO may turn into a DARPA like agency. Amazing how things are picking up just 4 weeks into Modi's term.
Perfect way to go forward. DRDO should focus only on current & next-gen R&D. Once basic tech is developed simply outsource it and then forget about its production/further evolution/refinement/exports etc.

+1. This is the best use of DRDO and it will lose a lot of its political-babu flab in the process. Things will move at lightning speed if this happens.

vic · Post by **vic** » 22 Jun 2014 23:38

IIRC the summed trials were supposed to go on till 30th June. So one should await the final outcome.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 23 Jun 2014 03:08

Mercedes Diesel Engine on Dhanush is news.

The Hp and displacement is in range of Mahindra scorpio engine (scorpio is bit more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Scorpio).

I am biased as have worked on developing a variant of the Scorpio engine

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 23 Jun 2014 11:09

RoyG wrote:OFB is going to be finished. Wouldn't be surprised if it is sold off too some pvt. Perhaps they may be confined to producing ammo or something. DRDO may turn into a DARPA like agency. Amazing how things are picking up just 4 weeks into Modi's term.

Can you please direct me to this news?