Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

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arun
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by arun »

shiv wrote:Could some kind soul point me to one Russian news source saying they are in talks for Su-35 with Shitistan?

Recall that Chechen terror was born in Pakistan

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-birth-o ... -radicals/

..............{Rest Snipped}...........
Russia’s Sputnik News ostensibly quoting Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. I say ostensibly as the quoted sentence, "I do not think that the contacts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides," does not mention SU-35 but then again it is not a denial:
Expansion of military cooperation between Russia and Pakistan will not have any negative effect on relations between Moscow and New Delhi, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on Wednesday.

NIZHNY TAGIL (Russia), September 9 (Sputnik) — Moscow and Islamabad are currently in talks on the delivery of Russian multirole Mi-35M attack helicopters and the latest Su-35 fighter jets.

"I do not think that the contacts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides," Ryabkov told journalists.

Pakistan is Russia's closest partner, Ryabkov said, adding that the two countries’ ties are evolving not only militarily but in other sectors, including energy.

Relations between India and Pakistan have been strained since the end of British rule seven decades ago. They agreed to a ceasefire in 2003 following a number of military conflicts. Both sides have repeatedly accused each other of violating the truce.


Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015090 ... z3mKtija3G

I repeat what I said earlier in the "India-Russia: News & Analysis" thread:
arun wrote:Russia steadily moves up the escalatory ladder of working against India’s interest regards the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

First, Dual civilian/military use Helicopter => Mi 17

Then, Military Components for Fighter Aircraft => RD-93 Engines for the JF-17 fighter

Thereafter, Military use Helicopter => Mi-35 Attack Helicopters

Next possibly, complete Fighter Aircraft => Su-35 Fighters (?)
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Arun - here is more from Sputnik:
http://sputniknews.com/military/2015092 ... su-35.html
Earlier, Moscow and Islamabad clinched a deal on the delivery of Mi-35M transport and attack helicopters to Pakistan, and the contract could be expanded.
This news contradicts what the Russian Ambassador says about the Mi 35 deal in his interview posted by deejay. No deal has been clinched. It is under negotiation and the Ambassador hopes that a deal can be done.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Guddu »

Russia is playing the Paki card with India. Give us moolah or we will sell to $hitistan. They might end up driving us into US arms....for if they give new stuff to them, we will have to buy amreeki maal.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Gagan »

Please do note that the Ka-225 contract has still not been inked.

Modi-Putin are scheduled to meet in ?November. Maybe some garam hawa being encouraged by roosis to soften India's stand on some purchases.

Sure, the Pakistanis must have shown interest. The russians might even let a few PAF afsars sit in a Su-35 cockpit on the ground. I remember, the cheenis let a few PAF afsars sit in their sukhoi cockpits, there were some pictures, which the abduls in PDF tomtommed for a long time, 5 years ago.

Russia might sell those 4 Mi-35 gunships to Pak Army - India is retiring its Mi-35 fleet soon.
Pakistan doesn't have the money to buy more than 4 Mi-35 gunships, which cost a fraction of a Su-35. In the absence of real progress, the gasbag world-leading-geostrategists from pindi and Islamabad are talking about a new Pak-Roos-Cheen axis which will be the 21st century bulwark against the YYY axis.

AoA to that!!!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

Guddu wrote:Russia is playing the Paki card with India. Give us moolah or we will sell to $hitistan. They might end up driving us into US arms....for if they give new stuff to them, we will have to buy amreeki maal.
It is possible to look at India as a card played by other nations, or alternatively we can look at India as a player that has cards to play.

Looking at ourselves as a fellow-card along with Pakistan we see players Russia, China and the US playing the India hand versus the Pakistan hand. I think things have moved beyond this. We have our own cards to play and we will play them. For too long Indians have seen themselves as a card.

One of the reasons for the existence of this thread is to put the Pakistan threat in perspective. They are no longer our equal as they were in 1965, but the 1965 mentality still exists among us.
Last edited by shiv on 21 Sep 2015 07:45, edited 1 time in total.
Gagan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Gagan »

Currently India is busy dissuading the Chinese from equipping their kilo-copy sub sale to Pakistan, with SLBMs. These subs can potentially have two slbms embarked on them.

Some business access related quid-pro-quo might be arranged.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

shiv wrote:Could some kind soul point me to one Russian news source saying they are in talks for Su-35 with Shitistan?
Looking for it.
The venue where Ryabkov allegedly made the remarks reported in Sputnik was the Russian Arms Expo-2015, in the Russian city of Nizhny Tagil.

Source in Russian, and with in the .ru domain
http://newfront.ru/stati/rasshirenie-vo ... akistanom/
Расширение военного сотрудничества между Россией и Пакистаном не будет иметь никакого негативного влияния на отношения между Москвой и Нью-Дели, заместитель министра иностранных дел России Сергей Рябков заявил в среду.

Нижний Тагил (Россия), 9 сентября — Москва и Исламабад в настоящее время ведет переговоры по поставке Русских многоцелевых Ми-35М вертолетов и новейших Су-35 истребителей.
«Я не думаю, что контакты в стадии обсуждения вызовет ревность со стороны любой из двух сторон», сообщил журналистам Рябков.
Пакистан является ближайшим партнером России, Рябков сказал, добавив, что отношения двух стран развиваются не только в военном, но и в других отраслях, в том числе энергии.
Отношения между Индией и Пакистаном были напряженными, так как в конце британского правления семь десятилетий назад. Они согласились на прекращение огня в 2003 году после ряда военных конфликтов. Обе стороны неоднократно обвиняли друг друга в нарушении перемирия.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 21 Sep 2015 08:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

I hate to keep bringing this up. We see ourselves as a weak, innocent and vulnerable natiun that is being wronged by everyone - a scene that comes out very well with mournful Sitar music in the background. We need to get out of this. Yusuf of DFI made this brilliant comment on Twitter yesterday:
India is only country which has its land taken by enemies & calls it dispute. China draws lines & calls it, its own
Last edited by shiv on 21 Sep 2015 07:58, edited 1 time in total.
shiv
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:Could some kind soul point me to one Russian news source saying they are in talks for Su-35 with Shitistan?
Looking for it.
The venue where Ryabkov allegedly made the remarks reported in Sputnik was the Russian Arms Expo-2015, in the Russian city of Nizhny Tagil.
Thanks. We will never know whether he mentioned Su 35 or not - but assuming he did - he is after all trying to make sales for his country. His country is currently already has an informal agreement with India about PAKFA. They are trying to get India to take Russian consultation for Project 75. The Ka 226 will come - they have clinched the deal. After all they changed the Ka 226 engine to Turbomeca Arrius just for India. They lost out against the Chinook. They have an AWACS order from India to be fulfilled jointly with Israel (If I am not mistaken). That apart there are a lot of upgradation deals ongoing al l of which mean money for them at a time when oil prices have crashed. They are in negotiation with Indonesia for the Su 35. The Chinese want the Su-35. Clearly the Su 35 is available for export. Buying a few off the shelf different from setting up a whole maintenance system in house. For the former the Russians will have to guarantee spares and support and when that ends - the planes are sold off/retired.

India will have plenty of clout to demand that the Russians do not supply hardware to Pakistan that will end up hurting India. India has less clout with America and is developing that. The next thing would be to make it inconvenient for China to do business with Pakistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Prem »

Paki can do only window shopping and window dressing. Buying actual stuff is beyond their pocket . Let's not forget Paki are mainly Lahori with carrot in their pocket to pretend Mardangi while shopping Donley meat. No one has suffered more for this than their goatapulation.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

One blast in Moscow and Pakistan's Russia imports will be on hold.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

Here is a Russian article from Sept 15 (before the Jane's reports that cite an unnamed Pakistani source that Pakistan is indeed in talks about the Su-35):
http://novpressa.ru/articles-politika.h ... cleid=2033
The Google translation is:
Russian contract with Pakistan could undermine relations with India

09/15/2015

The Russian government has an amazing gift unpleasant surprise not as many enemies as friends. According to recent reports, Moscow intends to sell Pakistan Su-35 attack helicopters and Mi-35. Apparently, the Kremlin does not understand what effect it might produce on the traditionally friendly our country India.

"I do not think that will cause envy discussed contracts one of the parties" - a strange confidence, said Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. Despite the fact that Pakistan and India are fairly close in terms of linguistic, cultural and economic relations - and, in general, constitute a historically unified region - over the past few decades, among them three times flashed full-scale war. Even in better times, the Indo-Pakistan relations have been difficult to characterize different than hostile truce - and the situation is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. As emphasizes the Australian military analyst Brian Klaufli, "The Indians are very disappointed. It is even possible diplomatic friction. "
Russia's decision to supply arch-enemy India with advanced armaments may well lead to a reorientation of New Delhi in the US and Europe. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has announced its intention to buy 36 fighter «Dassault Rafale» France.

If Moscow will begin to sell weapons to Pakistan, France will be in a much better position when India will announce a tender for the modernization of an increasingly archaic fleet represented by the Soviet MiG-21 and MiG-23. Moreover, the prospect of seeing the Su-35 in the hands of the Pakistani force New Delhi to act very quickly. Showing interest and the US: US Secretary of Defense has already expressed willingness to sell India's fifth-generation fighter F-35s.

Author: Alexander Zavorotny
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

The previous news-item was Deputy Foreign Minister Ryabkov on Sept 9. Notice this Russian source from July 11.
http://debatepolitics.ru/content.php?r= ... 28278f0db0

Google translation:
Russia may deliver to Pakistan, apart from a few units of Mi-35M and Su-35, the assistant to the president of the Russian Federation Vladimir Kozhin. He noted that the negotiations on the preparation of contracts for the supply to Pakistan the Mi-35M and Su-35 are continuing. "Negotiations. So far only the negotiations", - said Kozhin, answering the question, at what stage is the preparation of contracts for the supply of military equipment to Pakistan.

This presidential aide stressed that there is no information on the number of fighters suspected to be delivered. "And helicopters - some pieces," - said Kozhin said, adding that nothing is yet known about the amount of possible contracts, as negotiations continue. Su-35 - Russian multi-purpose super-maneuverable fighter of 4 ++ generation.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

A_Gupta wrote:Here is a Russian article from Sept 15 (before the Jane's reports that cite an unnamed Pakistani source that Pakistan is indeed in talks about the Su-35):
Russian contract with Pakistan could undermine relations with India

09/15/2015

The Russian government has an amazing gift unpleasant surprise not as many enemies as friends. According to recent reports, Moscow intends to sell Pakistan Su-35 attack helicopters and Mi-35. Apparently, the Kremlin does not understand what effect it might produce on the traditionally friendly our country India.

"I do not think that will cause envy discussed contracts one of the parties" - a strange confidence, said Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. Despite the fact that Pakistan and India are fairly close in terms of linguistic, cultural and economic relations - and, in general, constitute a historically unified region - over the past few decades, among them three times flashed full-scale war. Even in better times, the Indo-Pakistan relations have been difficult to characterize different than hostile truce - and the situation is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. As emphasizes the Australian military analyst Brian Klaufli, "The Indians are very disappointed. It is even possible diplomatic friction. "
Russia's decision to supply arch-enemy India with advanced armaments may well lead to a reorientation of New Delhi in the US and Europe. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has announced its intention to buy 36 fighter «Dassault Rafale» France.

If Moscow will begin to sell weapons to Pakistan, France will be in a much better position when India will announce a tender for the modernization of an increasingly archaic fleet represented by the Soviet MiG-21 and MiG-23. Moreover, the prospect of seeing the Su-35 in the hands of the Pakistani force New Delhi to act very quickly. Showing interest and the US: US Secretary of Defense has already expressed willingness to sell India's fifth-generation fighter F-35s.

Author: Alexander Zavorotny
This news item has more astrology and psychology than facts.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by JE Menon »

^^i hope no one has missed the Australian defense analyeast Brian Klaufli.

Seeing The Pathan Lover after a long time. Cloughley adds credibility to the article along the lines that shiv mentioned.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by A_Gupta »

Here is a news-agency (RIA Novosti Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIA_Novosti ) report from July
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150709/1123171897.html
This is from July 9, 2015:
MOSCOW, July 9 - RIA Novosti. Russia can put Pakistan, apart from a few units of Mi-35M and Su-35, the assistant to the president of the Russian Federation Vladimir Kozhin.
He noted that the negotiations on the preparation of contracts for the supply to Pakistan the Mi-35M and Su-35 are continuing.

"Negotiations. So far only the negotiations", - said Kozhin, answering the question, at what stage is the preparation of contracts for the supply of military equipment to Pakistan.

This presidential aide stressed that there is no information on the number of fighters, estimated to delivery.

"And helicopters - some pieces," - said Kozhin said, adding that nothing is yet known about the amount of possible contracts, as negotiations continue.


РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150709/1 ... z3mLJmnsUU
(My previous link to this news-item was at debatepolitics.ru, so one might not take it as a serious source.)

So I think the truth is that the Russians have been talking about negotiations with Pakistan for the Su-35 since July, if not earlier. The September 9th report of what Ryabkov said is in line with this.

So now the question is - how serious is this, or does this talk have some other motive?

BTW - the search technique may be of interest for future use. Go to translate.google.com, put in words in English, translate into Russian, use the Cyrillic words for a search. Translate the search results back into English, refine the search terms if necessary, etc. etc.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 21 Sep 2015 08:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

shiv wrote:I hate to keep bringing this up. We see ourselves as a weak, innocent and vulnerable natiun that is being wronged by everyone - a scene that comes out very well with mournful Sitar music in the background. We need to get out of this. Yusuf of DFI made this brilliant comment on Twitter yesterday:
India is only country which has its land taken by enemies & calls it dispute. China draws lines & calls it, its own
Dhaaga is getting derailed but still: India should have disqualified F16/F18 from MMRCA and said that they dont want to fund the MIC that produces weapon on the cheap/weapons on discount to an enemy country. India should have also released a statement that they cannot field weapon systems that Pakistan might get in the future.

If there is one thing Massa understands, it is lobbying from its own MIC. That was one golden opportunity lost.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shaun »

shiv wrote: This news item has more astrology and psychology than facts.
:rotfl:
Dhoti shivering moment ..this is what anyway the ruskis want !!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by deejay »

Learned Maulaners,

The look from Lahore changed in the conventional arms department in favour of India the day India bought the Su 30 and then they added MKI to it. Now, in the madrassas of Lahore and nearby, it is common knowledge that 35>30. Once, this great land of TSP procures 35s both in the Mi version and the Su version, then the balance shall restore in TSP's favour. AOA!!!

While we eagerly wait on what our friends in PISS or RANDI have to say, some folks in India have told us that 04 helicopters is less than 50% of a helicopter unit and that is all TSP can afford. By their logic if TSP can buy only 04 Mi then how can it buy more Su?(Maybe because M comes before S in English and is hence lesser). Then, it is assumed TSP will have a 04 Su 35, 25% of a fighter Sqn. My guess is that in peace time it will be used to highway police the China - Pakistan 46 Billian Dollar economic corridor and spot RAA agints.

The Indians further tell us that this is a very small number. I agree, anything less than 72 is small. This means (as per the evil Indians) the numbers are not enough to tilt the military balance in TSPs favour. Infact, it will be very costly for TSP to operate these small numbers. It will also be more difficult, challenging and useless over a longer period. But in media and on the internet TSP will become very strong, IMHO.

But I say, look at the Indians, did they not buy 04 Mi 26. Look how strong they became because of 04 Mi 26s. And how many Mig 25 did they buy? I am sure TSP will use its 04 Mi 35s and X nos ( tending to zero) Su 35 similarly and become very strong.

TSP is the wahid islamic atom-atic takkat of the khitta. It had first strike capability with its bowlistic missiles, it has recently acquired second strike capability with its curse missiles and now with the 35's it will acquire a third strike capability also in future. Marshallaw!!!

When the Indians heard of the third strike capability, they fell off their chairs laughing. Maybe, because third strike capability is an overkill. Perhaps, we will have won by the time of second strike.

So, learned maulaners don't you agree that the balance of conventional military power will forever shift in TSP's favour once the 35's are acquired from Russia - our new taller than China, sweeter than China, deeper than China, bigger than China friend?

(P.S. Our strategic experts at PISS and RANDI are waiting for the comments of Maulaners of this jirga for them to go on TV with their comments).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by gakakkad »

Gagan wrote:Please do note that the Ka-225 contract has still not been inked.

Modi-Putin are scheduled to meet in ?November. Maybe some garam hawa being encouraged by roosis to soften India's stand on some purchases.

Sure, the Pakistanis must have shown interest. The russians might even let a few PAF afsars sit in a Su-35 cockpit on the ground. I remember, the cheenis let a few PAF afsars sit in their sukhoi cockpits, there were some pictures, which the abduls in PDF tomtommed for a long time, 5 years ago.

Russia might sell those 4 Mi-35 gunships to Pak Army - India is retiring its Mi-35 fleet soon.
Pakistan doesn't have the money to buy more than 4 Mi-35 gunships, which cost a fraction of a Su-35. In the absence of real progress, the gasbag world-leading-geostrategists from pindi and Islamabad are talking about a new Pak-Roos-Cheen axis which will be the 21st century bulwark against the YYY axis.

AoA to that!!!



IIRC per unit cost of SU-35 would come to some 60 mill...So if they want to buy a squadron it would cost them 1 b (conservative)... so will Russia 1 billion dollar shariat compliant baksheesh to peachy pottom pacquis ? i think not...

anyway if their PAK-FAs are not good enough , they can shove it in their mush...these girly blackmail tactics aint working on Modi.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Anujan »

http://tribune.com.pk/story/960603/badh ... at-khyber/
Five of the 14 terrorists who mounted Friday’s brazen assault on the Badhaber air force camp have been traced to Khyber Agency and Swat, once again bringing these restive regions in the spotlight and widening the scope of investigations for security officials and intelligence agencies.

An insider confided with The Express Tribune that a jirga between the political administration and tribal elders of Bara might be convened today (Monday) at Khyber House in Peshawar. At the Pump House in Jamrud, Khyber Agency’s Political Agent Shahab Ali Shah and Commandant Swat Scouts Colonel Naeemullah also held a meeting with Kukikhel and Mullgori tribes.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1208291/badabe ... nformation
Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan has criticised the leak of information about the identity of some of the militants killed in the Friday’s attack on the PAF camp near Peshawar and said that the release of the information to the media was premature and could adversely affect the investigation.
They cannot blame Joseph Ramachandra Goldstein-Massoud from Afghanistan anymore. :rotfl:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by JE Menon »

The Russians will sell to Pakistan, gradually and incrementally. It should be neither surprising nor alarming. These are decisions they make based on their strategic calculations. It is being done in the same way that we are buying from the Americans, even though they sell and give free weapons and other forms of aid to Pakistan on a much larger scale - well knowing that the weapons provided and the money saved are both used against Indian interest. Similarly, the Russian position - legitimately - could be that we are funding American R&D which is detrimental to Russian interest. All this just means we have to take such factors into account in our dealings with Moscow.

Ultimately, everybody will act in their perceived interest. Except for Pakistan, those interests are arrived non-ideologically and largely rationally. Pakistan is an instrument, a card. We can use it, we can play it too. Islam will be the tool that we and others will use, but not just Islam. There will be local vested interests of various kinds that we can manipulate, directly or indirectly. We have been doing that I'm sure and we will continue to do so.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by shiv »

deejay wrote: But I say, look at the Indians, did they not buy 04 Mi 26. Look how strong they became because of 04 Mi 26s. And how many Mig 25 did they buy? I am sure TSP will use its 04 Mi 35s and X nos ( tending to zero) Su 35 similarly and become very strong.

TSP is the wahid islamic atom-atic takkat of the khitta. It had first strike capability with its bowlistic missiles, it has recently acquired second strike capability with its curse missiles and now with the 35's it will acquire a third strike capability also in future. Marshallaw!!!

When the Indians heard of the third strike capability, they fell off their chairs laughing. Maybe, because third strike capability is an overkill. Perhaps, we will have won by the time of second strike.

So, learned maulaners don't you agree that the balance of conventional military power will forever shift in TSP's favour once the 35's are acquired from Russia - our new taller than China, sweeter than China, deeper than China, bigger than China friend?

(P.S. Our strategic experts at PISS and RANDI are waiting for the comments of Maulaners of this jirga for them to go on TV with their comments).
:D
We are phucked - er in deep shiite
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Gagan »

I think some PDM (P Dork Media) mixed up his 35s. That might well be the true origin of this mixup.
I am surprised they didn't mix their Mi-35, Mig-35, and their Su-35 together

The roosi officialdom are now doing some garam hawabazi, to try to signal India.
The Russians want to sell the Su-35, they would have hoped India bought the Mig-35 for MMRCA, since that aircraft didn't meet the cut, this is russia's gambit to try and sell the other '35 in their stable.

Russia understands one thing-they can't afford to lose multi-bllion dollar deals with India by selling anything of consequence to Pakistan. They won't risk it.
But India will have to dangle those contracts.

It is a game that is being played between India, Russia, USA for the sale of defence equipment onlee
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by SSridhar »

TTP: Enduring Shadows - Tushar Ranjan Mohanty, South Asia Intelligence Review

Excerpts
Despite the Government’s claims of success of Operation Zarb-e-Azb in North Waziristan, the campaign is far from finished. Operation Zarb-e-Azb was launched on June 15, 2014, in the aftermath of the attack at the Jinnah International Airport, Karachi, on June 8-9, 2014. At least 33 persons, including all 10 attackers, were killed in the attack.

According to partial data (Data till September 20, 2015) compiled by the South Asia Terrorism Portal (SATP), Operation Zarb-e-Azb has, thus far, killed more than 2,130 ‘terrorists’ and 226 soldiers (no independent verification of fatalities or identities of those killed is available, as media access to the areas of conflict is severely limited).

Significantly, on June 12, 2015, Major General Bajwa claimed that 347 officers and soldiers of the Pakistan Army had lost their lives, and 2,763 terrorists had been killed in the Operation. Up to 90 per cent of the North Waziristan was declared ‘free from terrorists’, while their central command and control apparatus, along with their communication systems, had been ‘destroyed’. 9,000 intelligence operations had been conducted, as a result of which 218 wanted terrorists were killed, while thousands of extremists were taken for interrogation. 837 terrorist hideouts had been destroyed, while 253 tons of explosives were recovered during the ongoing operation. The Badaber base attack, however, demonstrates the audacity of the terrorist formations, despite numerous reverses.

Further, the National Action Plan (NAP) is making very slow progress. NAP was initiated on December 24, 2014, in the aftermath of the Peshawar Army Public School attack in which 148 persons, including 135 children, were killed. The ‘20-point Plan’ on counter-terrorism was announced by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in a televised address to the nation in the night of December 24, 2014, and incorporated in the Constitution by the 21st Constitutional Amendment on January 7, 2015. A handout issued by the Federal Ministry of Interior on July 4, 2015, claimed that some 54,376 ‘combing operations’ had been carried out under NAP, which came into effect on January 7, 2015, resulting in 60,420 arrests. 3,019 intelligence-based operations were also carried out, while 1,388 pieces of intelligence were shared. Some 97.9 million mobile SIM cards have been verified using bio-metric technology, while 5.1 million SIM cards have been blocked, under NAP.

Astonishingly, documents obtained by The News and reported on July 30, 2015, claimed that more than 20,000 terrorists had been killed by July 13, 2015, under NAP, an incredible number that does not reconcile with any estimates by official or non-Governmental monitoring agencies. Further, if such a large number has been killed, and terrorism still flourishes, what is the total strength of the terrorists in Pakistan? The documents also claimed that 3,148 terrorists had been apprehended across Pakistan while 1,799 persons had also been held under charges for ‘hate speech’. 3,446 persons were identified as having links with banned outfits, and more than 100 madrassahs had been shut down, the documents claimed.

However, on September 10, 2015, Prime Minister Sharif lamented that provincial administrations were yet to implement a major portion of NAP to counter terrorism and extremism in the country. While some elements had been implemented, Sharif argued, it was necessary that each and every aspect of the anti-terrorism plan be implemented.

There is a visible element of deception here, as Pakistan projects its counter-terrorism ‘successes’ to secure as much as possible from the Coalition Support Fund (CSF) of United States in the name of Operations in its tribal areas. On September 13, 2015, Jonathan Carpenter, Special Representative of the US for Afghanistan and Pakistan, while appreciating Pakistan's war against terrorism, had thus observed that, as a result of Zarb-e-Azb, Waziristan and the Khyber Agency had become safer. Carpenter also confirmed that provision of CSF to Pakistan would continue for the current fiscal. Carpenter justified this decision on the basis of his talks with Prime Minister Sharif and the Government of Pakistan, who had assured him that an indiscriminate operation against all terrorist groups was under way.

The continued and free operation of a large number of ‘friendly’ terrorist formations in and from Pakistan – most prominently including the (Afghan) Taliban and a multiplicity of India-directed groups including the Lashkar-e-Taiba – gives the lie to Pakistan’s claims of such an ‘indiscriminate’ operation. Indeed, it remains the case that anti-state formations such as TTP continue to flourish in Pakistan precisely because the state continues to provide spaces to a number of its own terrorist ‘assets’, as well as to the entire spectrum of Islamist extremist and sectarian political formations.

Pakistan continues on its trajectory to ruin, even as the ‘international community’, led by the US, continues to subsidize its many derelictions and to reward its enduring malfeasance. The terrorist attack at Badaber is just another reminder, the latest in an unending succession of disasters, that Pakistan’s duplicity will eventually inflict a cost on the country itself, far beyond any calculus of gain its current masters may imagine.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by deejay »

Just so that all developments remain updated on this thread too, cross posting Austin Saars post here:
Austin wrote:Asad Hashim ‏@AsadHashim ( Reuters/Pakistan ) https://twitter.com/AsadHashim/status/6 ... 2600291328

According to the PAF, reports that Pakistan is getting Su-35's from Russia has no basis in reality. No contracts, no negotiations.
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

Post by Peregrine »

A Pakithizer gives up trying to Improve (is it ever possible?) Relations between You Ess Ay and Cwapistan!

Better relations with the US? - Thomas Houlahan
This is the 25th year of my involvement in Pakistan-US relations. For these twenty-five years, I’ve worked for better relations between our two countries, explaining Pakistan to people who are pretty ignorant about it, but now I’ve decided to stop – for Pakistan’s sake.

Something happened recently that slapped me into reality. I was making a deposit at a bank. As I am a Pakistan Cricket supporter, and have a friend with the PCB, I was wearing a Pakistan Cricket jersey and a hat with a Pakistani flag on it.

“You don’t see much apparel with ‘Pakistan’ on it in Washington,” the teller said. He was actually from Pakistan and mentioned that Pakistan wasn’t very popular in the States.

I really didn’t need to be told that. Every year, a survey comes out showing the most and least popular countries among Americans. Every year, Pakistan is the third least-popular country, behind only North Korea and Cuba. I have a sneaking suspicion that due to the thaw in relations with Cuba, Pakistan will be second from the bottom this year.

It finally dawned on me that this is no accident. This is the result of a concerted slander campaign by the US government and the think tanks who feed off of it. Really? That campaign has been effective. Ask any American the first thing that pops into his head when he hears ‘Pakistan’ and it will usually be either ‘terrorist supporter’ or ‘double game’. Hallelujah!

The ‘double game’ slander is particularly offensive, coming, as it does, from functionaries of a government that itself has been playing a double game. Since 9/11, US officials have been flying to Islamabad and talking about how much the United States values the alliance. As soon as their planes touch down in Washington, they tell everyone who will listen that Pakistan cannot be trusted.

A lot of this is just plain bigotry. Whether they admit it or not, most officials seem to see their mission as bringing the benefit of white civilisation to the little brown people. The fact that government offices in Islamabad are full of people with degrees from Oxford, Cambridge, or the London School of Economics does not shake their belief that they need to civiliwe Pakistan. The chief difference between Americans and Pakistan’s former British rulers is that at least the British respected the culture and the people – Americans don’t. Most Americans don’t respect any Muslim culture. Who does? - Welcome to the CLUB

And that’s the rub. No matter how westernised a Pakistani might be, to most Americans, he’ll never be anything more than a wog. US government officials constantly wring their hands about the Islamisation of Pakistan’s officer corps. What they are really seeing is proud, patriotic men who are done trying to be more Western just to please people who are never going to respect them anyway. They are Pakistanis now, with all that means. The Americans can like it or lump it.

The rest of Pakistan should take a cue from that, because, let’s face it, all Pakistan gets out of this ‘alliance’, in addition to the scorn referred to above, is disastrous advice and grief. Yes, there is USAID, but it should just leave Pakistan for all the good it does. Pakistan also had its soldiers bombed by the US Air Force and there have been at least two military incursions by American forces onto Pakistani soil without government permission, the first resulting in the deaths of sixteen innocent, unarmed civilians shot at close range. Pakistan’s ‘ally’, having gotten it into a war, and, having pulled its troops out of that war, now stands ready to fight the War on Terror to the last Pakistani.

The alliance with the United States is just too one-sided and too expensive in blood and treasure for Pakistan. It isn’t worth wasting time and effort courting goodwill from a bad-faith ‘partner’ that is never going to give it. And, Pakistan doesn’t need better relations with the United States. It has China, and the Chinese seem to like Pakistan just the way it is. No demands. No unwanted advice. No racism. China has been a real, all-weather ally. Pakistan needs American goodwill the way a snake needs a set of golf clubs. So mote it be!

The writer is an associate at the Center for Security and Science. He has served in the New Hampshire legislature and as an election monitor in Pakistan. Email: TGHatCSS@gmail.com
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by JE Menon »

^^Hilarious. Poor guy seems tortured. Doesn't know whether to love or hate the Pakisatans. Best is this "Pakistan needs American goodwill the way a snake needs a set of golf clubs". Pakistan is the snake, poor guy has realised it finally - if unwillingly.
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015

Post by Peregrine »

JEM Ji : Meantime back at the Donkey Ranch!

Protestors demanding salaries, barge into KMC administrator’s office

Ain't got money for the Teachers' Salaries and Cwapistan wants to buy SU-30, SU-35 AND SU-40 and so on and so forth until SU-100!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Abhay_S »

Peregrine wrote:JEM Ji : Meantime back at the Donkey Ranch!

Protestors demanding salaries, barge into KMC administrator’s office

Ain't got money for the Teachers' Salaries and Cwapistan wants to buy SU-30, SU-35 AND SU-40 and so on and so forth until SU-100!
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Me thinks Cwapistan will stop at SU-72. AoA!!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Kashi »

JE Menon wrote:^^Hilarious. Poor guy seems tortured. Doesn't know whether to love or hate the Pakisatans. Best is this "Pakistan needs American goodwill the way a snake needs a set of golf clubs". Pakistan is the snake, poor guy has realised it finally - if unwillingly.
The article may as well have been written by the begum beater or an ISPR release or chhoha qureshi's rants in one of those multiple fake "newspapers' he set up.

Pakis are unpopular because of a slander campaign..lack of understanding of "muslim culture" and everything from GoTUS to USAID is blamed but not one mention of Paki perfidy.

Initially I thought that major had outed himself/herself and graduated to publishing toned down views in a mainstream Paki newspaper.

But then it appears that this Houlahan dude is actually serious.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by ArmenT »

^^^^
Somehow it appears to me that this Thomas Houlahan is a person who performed a name change from something like Tahir Houssain for "strategic reasons". Sort of like Dawood Gilani to David Headley conversion.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by svinayak »

JE Menon wrote:
Ultimately, everybody will act in their perceived interest. Except for Pakistan, those interests are arrived non-ideologically and largely rationally. Pakistan is an instrument, a card. We can use it, we can play it too. Islam will be the tool that we and others will use, but not just Islam. There will be local vested interests of various kinds that we can manipulate, directly or indirectly. We have been doing that I'm sure and we will continue to do so.
Correctly. India will be the gate keeper for Pakistan allowing countries to enter Pak after paying baksheesh to India.
India will attack Pak targets which are funded by outside countries and who have not paid Baksheesh
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Abhay_S »

Another Article regarding the Pak-Russ Taluqat.

http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/warming-up-to-russia/

Warming up to Russia

The regional geopolitical dynamics are changing, and a growing China-Russia proximity is a major indicator of that transformation.

The week-long military drills that began along the coast of Russia’s Primorsky region in the Peter the Great Gulf on August 22, reflect the growing collaboration between the two countries. Some 22 vessels, 20 aircraft, 40 armored vehicles and 500 marines from Russia and China are participating in the active phase of the ‘Joint Sea 2015 II’ drills in the Sea of Japan, off the coast of Russian far eastern city of Vladivostok. The goal is to strengthen anti-sabotage, anti-submarine, anti-vessel and anti-aircraft defense. Gunnery drills with various types of surface, underwater and aerial targets are also part of the games.

Earlier in May, Moscow and Beijing held a joint nine-ship naval exercise in the Mediterranean, “to consolidate and develop China-Russia all-round strategic coordination and partnership, to deepen the pragmatic and friendly cooperation between the Chinese and Russian militaries, and… to further enhance their capability of jointly coping with maritime security threats,” according to a press conference by the Chinese Defense Ministry.

Deep defense cooperation with India weighed heavily on Moscow

Pakistan’s planned acquisition of advanced Russian Mi-35 attack helicopters and the Russian offers of support in the power sector may also be seen as a reflection of the growing China-Russia cooperation. The move may be seen as a significant shift in Moscow’s policy towards Pakistan. Clearly, the deep defense cooperation with India weighed heavily on Moscow for decades, but the expanding India-US corporate sector cooperation perhaps works to the advantage of Pakistan, which is desperate for economic revival and development.

Primarily designed for attack and military transport missions, the Mi-35 ‘Hind E’ multi-role gunship helicopter is manufactured by Rostvertol, a subsidiary of Russian Helicopters.

Moscow’s decision is probably guided by the greater engagement between Washington and Delhi, including defense deals close to $10 billion in the last decade or so, including contracts for the purchase of 22 American AH-64D Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers in May this year, overlooking their Russian rivals Mi-28 Havoc and Mi-26.

Pakistan may also reach an agreement with Russia to buy the Pantsir-S1 short-to-medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system, the Mi-28E all-weather attack helicopters, and the 9K37 Buk Grizzly missile system, said a report in Want China Times on June 26.

Islamabad is already considering purchasing advanced Yak-130 trainer jets for its air force from Moscow, according to reports. “Pakistan Air Force officials have been talking to executives from Rosoboronexport and Irkut, the maker of the Yak-130, in various arms trade shows, though no definite intention to buy has been received,” the Australian Defense Industry news website defenseworld.net reported on August 20. The Yakovlev Yak-130 aircraft can be deployed as a light strike aircraft or as a trainer for a range of fourth or fifth generation fighters, according to ViewsWeek.com. The Russian Air Force is using as many as 300 of these jets.

Earlier this year, China gifted three Z-10 Fierce Thunderbolt helicopters to Pakistan, and Islamabad may be considering buying more. The Z-10s, considered to be China’s frontline attack helicopters, have been undergoing trial under various conditions in Pakistan, especially in desert dejert region of Bahawalpur. The helicopter has a Russian origin, and was designed by Russian rotorcraft company, the Kamov Design Bureau, under a contract with China.

Russian or Chinese hardware is not new to Pakistan any longer. The JF-17 Thunder, the fighter jet it co-produces with China, is powered by Russian Klimov RD-33 turbofan engine. It first received Mi-17s in the 1990s, and opened a state-of-the-art Mi-17 overhaul facility at the Aviation Base Workshop in Rawalpindi in June 2014, with the help of the Saint Petersburg Aviation Repair Company (SPARC).

The Mi-35 deal is a major departure from Russia’s refusal to export military hardware to Pakistan

While the Mi-35 deal marks a major departure from Russia’s refusal to export military hardware to Pakistan, it will certainly help Islamabad in upgrading or replacing its aging air fleet, and equip it with new air and ground defense systems, reducing its dependence on the sweet will of the US and its allies. The expansion of cooperation to the energy sector is also a welcome development. Potentially, the import of electricity from Russia and China, and working on hydroelectric power plants with their cooperation, can be a boon for Pakistan, with the price hovering around 6 to 8 cents per unit – far cheaper than what it costs us today. Pakistan may also ask China for ultra high-voltage DC transmission lines, thus far the most efficient for long-distance transmission of electricity with minimum line-losses, says Arshad Abbasi, a noted water and power expert who has methodically exposed deficiencies in the Pakistani governance structures. The technology can be used for import of electricity both from Russia and China.

Chinese companies are currently working on several hydroelectric and thermal power projects (mostly coal-based), raising hopes for an end to a prolonged power shortage. At one stage, Russia also offered to export some 5,000MW electricity to Pakistan via the Kazakhstan-Uzbekistan-Afghanistan corridor.



But can Pakistan optimally handle even its current power generation capacity before it imports additional power from its neighbors? Perhaps not, says Abbasi. “Incompetence, greed for kickbacks, the lack of a comprehensive practical policy, management incapacity, and an absence of vision” are factors that continue to deprive Pakistanis of electricity, he says. He cites a $38 million World Bank grant for the ministry’s capacity-building between 2008-2013 as an example.

While Chinese and Russian cooperation may help Pakistan get closer to solving its energy problem, a lot depends on how sincerely, consistently and professionally the government in Islamabad handles the potential new supply of energy. No amount of energy, experts believe, will help Pakistan without major long-term reforms in the power sector.

PS: The article uses a picture of a US carrier as an example 'A photograph from the China-Russia joint drill in the Sea of Japan'
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by KLNMurthy »

A_Gupta wrote:Here is a Russian article from Sept 15 (before the Jane's reports that cite an unnamed Pakistani source that Pakistan is indeed in talks about the Su-35):
http://novpressa.ru/articles-politika.h ... cleid=2033
The Google translation is:
Russian contract with Pakistan could undermine relations with India

09/15/2015

The Russian government has an amazing gift unpleasant surprise not as many enemies as friends. According to recent reports, Moscow intends to sell Pakistan Su-35 attack helicopters and Mi-35. Apparently, the Kremlin does not understand what effect it might produce on the traditionally friendly our country India.

"I do not think that will cause envy discussed contracts one of the parties" - a strange confidence, said Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. Despite the fact that Pakistan and India are fairly close in terms of linguistic, cultural and economic relations - and, in general, constitute a historically unified region - over the past few decades, among them three times flashed full-scale war. Even in better times, the Indo-Pakistan relations have been difficult to characterize different than hostile truce - and the situation is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. As emphasizes the Australian military analyst Brian Klaufli, "The Indians are very disappointed. It is even possible diplomatic friction. "
Russia's decision to supply arch-enemy India with advanced armaments may well lead to a reorientation of New Delhi in the US and Europe. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has announced its intention to buy 36 fighter «Dassault Rafale» France.

If Moscow will begin to sell weapons to Pakistan, France will be in a much better position when India will announce a tender for the modernization of an increasingly archaic fleet represented by the Soviet MiG-21 and MiG-23. Moreover, the prospect of seeing the Su-35 in the hands of the Pakistani force New Delhi to act very quickly. Showing interest and the US: US Secretary of Defense has already expressed willingness to sell India's fifth-generation fighter F-35s.

Author: Alexander Zavorotny
Interesting that Brian Cloughley the inveterate India-hater and paki-loving spook from New Zealand (?) is quoted.

Even if the deal itself doesn't result in much, any fallout of worsened Indo-Russian relations would be seen as a plus by pakis, Americans, Chinese and so forth.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by KLNMurthy »

JE Menon wrote:^^Hilarious. Poor guy seems tortured. Doesn't know whether to love or hate the Pakisatans. Best is this "Pakistan needs American goodwill the way a snake needs a set of golf clubs". Pakistan is the snake, poor guy has realised it finally - if unwillingly.
Consultant who is there to give a "white" name & face to ISI-written propaganda.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by BharadwajV »

Pakistani hot air news about the 1200BHP, DU round firing Al-Khalid; best low cost fighter in the market:MiG 33 JF-17 with the "Carrier killer" :rotfl: Super-hyper-crazy sonic CM400AKG, their Sword of Arrah: Zulfiqar class, KRL-122mm MBRLs and a menagerie of paten*in*ted hardware always gets peddled by the ISPR's but* effed cousins as a sign of their strong :lol: MIC but then the military(Also Pakistan's ruling party/opposition party/Election Commission/I&B Ministry/Cement factory owners assn. etc) goes ahead with releasing snippets about Oplot testing, J-XX purchases, OHP Frigates wanted ads and 300 72 pictures with their 'ever victorious', 'raw meat eating', '#1 Special forces in the world' SSG in front of death to Amreeki MRAPs and gives seemingly valid reasons!
Mango Abduls, then,with the help of some Madrassa Math and Lahori Logic, infused with the knowledge gained by reading their feel good history textbooks in a gently rocking motion, vomit it all over the internet in the guise of news.
Case in point :The Su-35 *discussions* (Reasons given range from JF17 unsuited for Maritime strike role to the "Russia-China-Pakistan Axis") :D
Many years ago it was "Pak to get 36 J-10s" which then became "Pak to get J-10B"........ "Pak to get J-11Bs" and has come a full circle stopping at the Su35B(akistan).
Hopefully, no more Nasr tests :mrgreen:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Falijee »

CTD Karachi claims arresting another RAW agent
KARACHI: Counter Terrorism Department (CTD) Karachi on Monday claimed to have arrested another agent of Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) in a raid conducted in Nazimabad area[*] of the metropolis.According to Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP) CTD, Naveed Khawaja, the alleged agent of Indian spy agency identified as Nadeem alias Nony was trained in Fareedpur city of India.The SSP further said the arrested accused is a member of Javed Langra group and an employee of Karachi Water and Sewerage Board (KWSB).
[*] The Nazimabad area of Krachi is a hotbed of Altaf Bhai supporters ; therefore by Paki logic, anyone picked up from that area of the city is automatically labelled as RAA Agent :mrgreen:
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by rsingh »

^^^wah wah very good presentation. It seems hard work of tora bora cave complex university is paying off now. Welcome Bharadwaj ji. please to visit appropriate dhaga Salam
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05,

Post by Amber G. »

JE Menon wrote:^^ Doesn't know whether to love or hate the Pakisatans. Best is this "Pakistan needs American goodwill the way a snake needs a set of golf clubs".
..
..But Innisbrook Resort's Copperhead course is a nice place to play golf..
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..Copperhead not only provided one of the more challenging rounds of golf, but my encounter with The Snake Pit is one that I won't soon forget. The finishing stretch of holes at Copperhead are regarded as some of the most difficult ....
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