West Asia News and Discussions

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brihaspati
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

chanakyaa wrote:Brihaspatiji,
brihaspati wrote:In the end, western control over teh Islamist forces unleashed in ME will not be sustainable. At the moment west thinks it can, but the mullahs are equally adept at survival and deception. At the moment west thinks it is using Islamists, while the Islamist leadership is deliberately allowing the west to think so. This is to their advantage.
.....
Respect the post and apologies in adv if misunderstood the view, but, are you saying that moolahs are so smart that they are allowing the west to control them? Come on. US/UK/Yahudi master plan of using moolahs against each other using their own money/resources to create civil war around them is hardly an evidence of powerful islamist brain. Where is the evidence of US policy of passive colonization, in sharp contrast to Bristish active colonization, to be any failure? Isn't the situation in iraq, afg, libya, sudan is going exactly as they planned?

This will go OT for some of the regions you mention are outside "west Asia". But if you track and compare the 19th century and the 20th century as it has gone generally in these zones, you will see - that when the Brits first intervened with their drugs and slave trade, the Islamic power was on the decline, and mullahcracy was on the backfoot. Since then, throughout 20th century, they have steadily progressed. Everywhere, the mullahcratic institutions have revived. Steadily. Just as in India, they revived under British imperial patronage, in Saudi Arabia, in Iraq, and in Iran, even in Syria or Turkey, or Egypt - the underying mullahcracy was revived. On top this or that dictator was foisted or replaced depending on whether they were useful for drugs/trafficking/antiSoviet politics or not.

Track the record of change and the power of the Islamic institutions over society in "west Asia" - they have steadily progressed in all of the countries you mention.

The mullahcracy has proved remarkably resilient and tactical in their approach. They have always done this, and often split into factional groups to hedge on both sides of a power struggle. They however, finish each other off to a much lesser extent than they look after each other across losing/victor side. Net result, whichever side wins, mullahcracy remains protected and entrenched. Their institutions contineu to receive patronage.

This appears strange or not deliberate that they are using the west for their own purposes by appearing to appear being used. But it appears strange and unbelievable because the details of mullahcracy politics over the centuries is not available or accessible for most. The crucial thing to note ovet the roughly 1000 years of mullahcracy politics, is to note the intricate tactical and stratgeic moves they have made institutionally with ruling interests, both domestic as well as foreign. They are more successful with the west, because their foundational theology developed in interaction with western politics - that of Europe and political Christianism, and they have a better understanding of the strategic mindset of the "west".
brihaspati
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

Johann,
if Syria is somehow not "partitioned", I don't agree that Syria will go back to its "pre-civil-war" state. one can look up the detailed social and demographic changes that came over Lebanon post civil-war, and the continued steady growth of strength of Islamists in Lebanese society, to understand what will happen to Syria. Both have very similar long term trends.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

brihaspati wrote: This appears strange or not deliberate that they are using the west for their own purposes by appearing to appear being used. But it appears strange and unbelievable because the details of mullahcracy politics over the centuries is not available or accessible for most. The crucial thing to note ovet the roughly 1000 years of mullahcracy politics, is to note the intricate tactical and stratgeic moves they have made institutionally with ruling interests, both domestic as well as foreign. They are more successful with the west, because their foundational theology developed in interaction with western politics - that of Europe and political Christianism, and they have a better understanding of the strategic mindset of the "west".
Modern technology too has steadily increased the ability of mullahs and Muslim intellectuals to define what Islam is and isn't for the semi-educated, and for mullahs to co-ordinate actions with each other.

Print, television, radio, the internet, modern transport mean that its harder and harder for Muslims to avoid being bombarded with messages by people who do know their stuff even though their positions could be challenged.

The fact is most Muslims listen because they really do want to be better Muslims. They also know how corrupt their governments are, and want to believe that the religious types are much more honest. Like Iran, actually letting mullahs and Islamist parties run the show will eventually fix that.

However in the absence of power, the social influence is the mullahs' and the modern Islamists' trump card - that gives them the leverage to extract concessions from their own as well as other governments.

Most Sunni governments prefer to rely on mullahs rather than Islamists because most mullahs want their traditional sphere of influence - education, the law, and public morality, as opposed to the Islamists who want to actually run everything from the treasury to the foreign ministry as well.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

brihaspati wrote:Johann,
if Syria is somehow not "partitioned", I don't agree that Syria will go back to its "pre-civil-war" state. one can look up the detailed social and demographic changes that came over Lebanon post civil-war, and the continued steady growth of strength of Islamists in Lebanese society, to understand what will happen to Syria. Both have very similar long term trends.
A lot of what you see is in Lebanon really about representation in the power structure.

A significant share of power since 1990 has enormously mellowed out Hezballah in terms of pushing for any sort of Islamic state.

The Sunnis on the other hand have become more and more militant since the assassination of their main representative, Rafiq Harriri in 2005.

In Iraq Sunnis tribes, especially the tribes in the West embraced radical Islam after the Baath Party and Iraqi Army were disbanded thanks to idiots like Rumsfeld and Cheney. They moved away when the Americans offered greater local self-government.

The Sunnis are not going to need militant Sunni Islam once Assad falls. They are going to be in a good position, better than the Shia in Iraq I'd say.

The people who protested against Assad started with economic grievances. Whomever takes over has to produce results, and this isnt Libya or Iraq where oil money can be redistributed in exchange for loyalty.

The business opportunities of reconstruction and recovery, investments from the diaspora, the region and the world will be too overwhelmingly attractive.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ Same situation in Egypt too. The problem in both Syria and Egypt is not religion or lack of it - its money/economics. They know it too, thats why MB want a coalition govt- so the lack of progress can be shared across all the parties.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

chanakyaa wrote:Yankee, Angles, Yahudi world order. check out the article below...bit of exaggeration by pointing source of all problems on one clan but the gist of the article is mind blowing. If you wish to comment, hope u read the entire article..

http://rense.com/general88/hist.htm
About this ADL and hate crimes bill striked me as some parallel to Sibal's similar proposal in India. One factor that stands out is the chief protagonists of that article are just one of the players and not the chief players, but due to the historically weak position of jewish minority, it has been always easier for the defacto powers to shift residual hatred for their activities onto some hapless minority group. ADL was setup as benami of Rothschilds to firefight in event of such an eventuality. Reflects how much they trust each other. As in India, the real powers are always cloaked behind an iron curtain and their names are rarely spoken and never openly mentioned in media.

so this is the weakness of that group. They are not as united as they may have us believe.
Aditya_V
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

Rony wrote:Did any one pick this up ? Iran's propaganda machinery - Press TV is reporting that

Blast hits Saudi intelligence building, killing deputy spy chief
A blast has hit the builing of Saudi intelligence service in Riyadh, killing deputy of the newly-appointed intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan, according to reports.

The explosion took place on Sunday when Bin Sultan’s deputy was entering the building, Yemen's al-Fajr Press quoted eyewitnesses as saying.

Saudi media have so far refrained from showing any reaction to the blast.
How come CNN< BBC < AL JAZEERA< Desi DDM copy and paste and ususual suspects have missed this
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Well could be that they dont want to flash these news as it may have it own problem for Saudi and its dissidents ...CNN , BBC etc are all US munna.

Could be that news is not that all true
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Unfortunately for the West,in Syria,it has bitten off more than it can chew.In Libya,it was only the massive air and naval attacks by NATO,ostensibly to "save civilians",killing scores of LIbyans in the attacks,plus SAS and other grunts on the ground,that they were able with a motley lot of barbarians to boot Ghaddaffi out and shamefully murder him in the process.

It is only the apologists for the west's devilry who proclaim that the FSA is a genuine Syrian opposition and not the bloodthirsty mercenaries of the West,who as reports have indicated,indulge in savagery that terrifies the Syrians,who prefer the authoritarian regime of Assad to the bloodthirsty mob of the FSA.With the staunch political support of Russia and China,the west has lost the battle for Syria and if the US tries to up the ante it will further bring in Russo-Sino involvement that could spark off an even more acute global crisis,that of the west and east at war with each other.Ss the Russians have said,this is more to do with defanging Iran and its influence in the ME than freeing Syria from Assad's rule.

The plot was hatched in the aftermath of Israel's stalemate and severe losses in the last Lebanese spat with the Hiz,where the Hiz shocked everyone by taking care of Israel's armour,destroying many of its much vaunted Merkava tanks and even badly damaging an Israeli missile corvette with an anti-ship missile of Iranian (Chinese) origin.Taking down Syria would deprive the Hiz of strategic depth,after which it could be crushed in a pincer move from both an FSA ruled Syria/Syrian enclave and another Israeli assault.With both Syria and the Hiz defeated or rendered comatose,the grand task of the US-Israeli-Sunni axis to eradicate Shiite influence in the ME leading to the overthrow of the Iranian regime would be a much easier task.What has complicated this master plan has been the Iranian accelerated quest for an N-weapon.Once the Iranians possess the N-bomb,the mere possibility of just one N-device exploding over Israel is enough to guarantee the Iranian regime's security.With most reports saying that the Iranians have some way to go,the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.The other alternative of directly attacking Iran runs the risk of Gulf oil supplies being disrupted,sending the world into another oil crisis spin ,taking down the world's already beleaguered economy.However,the western hawks are in the ascendent right now and the next two weeks are going to be crucial for global peace and stability.
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... burbs.html

Syria: Assad regime retakes control of Damascus suburbs
The Assad regime claimed to have retaken control of Damascus on Sunday night after its most elite fighting force ruthlessly overwhelmed rebel strongholds in the city's Sunni suburbs.

Xcpts:

By Adrian Blomfield, Middle East Correspondent and Ruth Sherlock in Beirut

10:17PM BST 22 Jul 2012

Backed by heavy artillery and helicopter gunships, the 4th Armoured Division, commanded by President Bashar al-Assad's feared younger brother Maher, swept through three rebel-held districts and laid siege to a fourth.

It was confirmed by the Israeli military last night that Mr Assad remains in the capital, following rumours in the aftermath of last week's attacks that he had fled for the coastal city of Latakia.

Sunday's counter-offensive effectively ended rebel hopes of capturing the Syrian capital and bringing a swift end to an uprising that has ground on for 16 months, which the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights stated yesterday has now killed over 19,000 people.

For more than a week, the rebel Free Syrian Army, the FSA, had fought a tenacious campaign to "liberate" Damascus, launching the wave of daring assaults at the heart of Mr Assad's most-heavily fortified citadel.

Hopes that a quick victory was in their reach were boosted by the most audacious strike of all – a bomb that struck a meeting of the regime's 14-man national security council, killing four of the president's chief lieutenants, including his powerful brother-in-law.

The attack dealt Mr Assad the heaviest blow of the uprising, but he has since succeeded in re-marshalling his forces.

As the president has reasserted his authority, the inferiority of the rebels, both in terms of weaponry and manpower, has begun to tell.

Equipped with only assault rifles and the odd grenade-launcher, the rebels were no match for an enemy that relentlessly struck their alleyway hideouts with tank rounds and cannon-fire from the air.

Having consolidated control of the Midan area, captured on Friday, soldiers from the 4th Division took Qaboon, one of the city's most fiercely contested districts, leaving a trail of rebel corpses in their wake.

A force of more than 1,000 government troops, backed by armoured vehicles, tanks and even bulldozers, then drove the rebels from Mezzeh, the capital's diplomatic district.

Even in the northern suburb of Barzeh, rebels found themselves besieged on all sides and five captured troops were reportedly summarily executed last night.

The revival of the regime's fortunes appeared to owe much to Maher al-Assad, whose perceived tactical deficiencies are outweighed by his use of brute force to bludgeon enemy ranks into submission. He has previously led successful missions to subdue Deraa, Homs and a string of other rebellious cities.

Even so, the bloodiest phase of the uprising – opposition activists reported on Sunday that 2,500 people have died so far this month – is far from over.

Rebel commanders conceded that their "Operation Damascus Volcano" had suffered setbacks, but claimed they still retained the capacity slowly to grind the regime down.

"The FSA don't have the resources to hold ground but they are still everywhere," said an opposition activist in Damascus who identified himself as Tareq.

Despite their losses in Damascus, rebel forces staged a show of strength in Aleppo, Syria's second city, launching an attack on its principal intelligence base. Rebel commanders said a campaign was under way to liberate the city, which is considered broadly loyal to Mr Assad.

As in Damascus, they face an enemy with superior firepower. But the inroads in Aleppo in recent days also point to a weakening of the regime, which has had to pull forces out of the city to defend Damascus.

The assassination of his top officials has hollowed out a significant portion of Mr Assad's power struggle.

But although the edifice has remained superficially intact, it is rotting from within, as demonstrated by a series of high profile defections.

Increasingly suspicious of his own minions, Mr Assad has been forced to rely more than ever on army units like the 4th Division whose loyalty remains unquestioned largely because its ranks are filled with hand-picked soldiers from the president's Alawite minority.

As a result, however, the government's remit has been weakened elsewhere, with rebels able to capture a number of key border crossings.

Although they lost control of one on the Iraqi frontier yesterday, the rebels captured a second outpost on the Turkish border. Turkey, which supports the rebels, responded by bolstering its military presence along the border to deter a Syrian counter-offensive.

Meanwhile, Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, declared over the weekend that the Jewish state was primed to take military action in Syria if it appeared there was a danger of Mr Assad's chemical weapons stockpile falling to Islamists. Mr Barak said that, for the moment, the weapons remained secure.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

They need Damascus for negotiations. Arab league calls on Asad to resign and the Arab will provide him with a safe haven.

Interesting to see what happens.
Aditya_V
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

Is this what the Syrian conflict is about?

Robert Fisk: Sectarianism bites into Syria's rebels
Bashar Assad received some advice last month from a Syrian with whom he is acquainted: if he ended his strikes against civilians, the Europeans would be content to let him remain in power for at least two more years – because the west wanted direct oil pipelines from Qatar and Saudi Arabia via Jordan and Syria to the Mediterranean in order to end Russia's stranglehold on Europe's gas and oil. Assad's reply came in his last speech. "There are people with patriotic intentions," he said. "But they don't know the nature of the conflict." All the evidence suggests that it is Assad himself who has not grasped the "nature" of this conflict.

Seems likely. Geographically it makes sense, as NATO today has made a temporary truce in some of its Mischeif in the Balkans, Caucuses former Soveit republics because of Russian strangehold especially on Gas to Germany. If Syria becomes pliant then expect more games in Chechanya, Georgia, Ukraine etc.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ said this long ago. This is about many things including making Hezbollah a political force in line with UN convention and disarming them
RajeshA
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Aditya_V wrote:Is this what the Syrian conflict is about?

Robert Fisk: Sectarianism bites into Syria's rebels

"Bashar Assad received some advice last month from a Syrian with whom he is acquainted: if he ended his strikes against civilians, the Europeans would be content to let him remain in power for at least two more years – because the west wanted direct oil pipelines from Qatar and Saudi Arabia via Jordan and Syria to the Mediterranean in order to end Russia's stranglehold on Europe's gas and oil. Assad's reply came in his last speech. "There are people with patriotic intentions," he said. "But they don't know the nature of the conflict." All the evidence suggests that it is Assad himself who has not grasped the "nature" of this conflict."
Reposting something I wrote on Dec 24, 2011
RajeshA wrote:For USA and Turkey, it seems the regime change in Syria may have something to do with America's eternal desire to create a pipeline system for providing Europe with its energy requirements.

As Turkmenistan's Gas reserves were brought under Russian control, USA suffered a blow in bringing Central Asian energy to Europe. As Pakistan stopped being a viable route for USA to exert influence in Central Asia, USA stopped looking at Central Asia as the place from where it is going to source energy for Europe. The only other place is the Gulf.

So Jordan has been brought into the GCC. If Syria too should turn Sunni, then the Gulf can meet Europe's energy requirements using pipelines passing through Jordan, Syria, Turkey and into Europe. That is why Russia has sided with the Syrians. The Syrians provide a natural barrier to Gulf energy for Europe, enabling the Russians to corner the European Energy market, and thus political influence in Central Europe.

Iraq is far too much under the control of the Shi'a, and thus Iran, and thus not sufficiently controllable by the West and the Saudis.

Saudis, Turks and Americans feel their interests coincide here. The Turks would want more control over the energy supply to Europe. There are 3.5 million Turks in Germany and Turkey would also want to secure their future and the future of still more Turks who could migrate to Germany. But Turkey also sees itself as an energy corridor for Europe and would want to build upon it. Russia on the other hand wants to "monopolize" the pipeline infrastructure in Europe. The Nord Stream Gas Pipeline joining Russia with Germany went online on 8th November, 2011.

Americans are of course here lining up in support of Turkey for that.

That is the Great Game in West and Central Asia - who supplies Europe with energy and thus controls the polity of Europe - of Germany most importantly. It is a tug of war between America and Russia.
Pranav
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

Philip wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... burbs.html

Rebel commanders said a campaign was under way to liberate [Aleppo], which is considered broadly loyal to Mr Assad.
Some western media outlets have descended to a farcical level ... talking about rebels "liberating" a city loyal to Assad.
Last edited by Pranav on 23 Jul 2012 19:35, edited 2 times in total.
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Damascus: Chemical Weapons Only for Foreign Aggression
Syria may only use chemical weapons against external aggression, Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said on Monday.

"Syria may use chemical weapons only in case of foreign aggression," according to a Foreign Ministry statement read by Makdissi during a press conference in the Syrian capital Damascus.

Syria will never use chemical weapons against civilians, he added, stressing that the weapon stocks are secure.
Pranav
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

Nature of Syrian govt - http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists ... -1.1052279
The killing of four top security officials, who were running the war against the rebellious Syrian people, is a real blow to Bashar Al Assad, but it also shows a fundamental fact lost in the noise of propaganda, giving a clear answer about the nature of this regime. While lots of people (both anti and pro-Syrian regime) deal with the uprising as a battle between the Shiite Alawite minority and Sunni majority, the killed officials show that this is far from reality. The killed defence minister, Dawood Rajha, was a Christian and his successor is a Sunni. The former defence minister and the head of what is called “the crises cell”, Hassan Turkumani, was Sunni and the wounded Interior Minister is a Sunni also. Only Deputy Defence Minister, Assef Shawqat, is an Alawite.
Pranav
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

Fides reports rebel Islamists killing Christians in Syria - http://www.agi.it/english-version/world ... s_in_syria
(AGI) Rome - The Fides news agency has reported on groups of rebel extremist Islamists "terrorising people in Damascus" especially Chrstians and Iraqi refugees. Fides has also reported the murder of an entire Christian family by militiamen from the "Islam Brigade", "Liwa al-Islam", the same group that claimed responsibility for the attack on Bashar al-Assad regime's hierarchy. According to the news agency, which is quoting sources in Damascus, these militias stopped the car of a Christian, a civilian state official called Nabil Zoreb, and forced the man, his wife Violet and his two children, George and Jimmy, to get out of the car and then shot them all at point blank range. In the south-eastern part of Damascus, Islamist fighters from the Jihad al Nosra group, close to the Muslim Brotherhood, attacked the homes of Iraqi refugees, looting and burning down the houses, obliging the residents to flee.
Theo_Fidel

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Theo_Fidel »

The Christians in Syria are not protected by west as the impression is that they are orthodox type Christians, not TFTA protestants.

Also West wants to retain the option of expelling muslims in future if necessary.
RajeshA
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

The West didn't care about Iraqi Christians, or the Coptic Christians in Egypt or does so now about Syrian Christians. Actually the presence of these other Christian denominations dilutes the claim of the Vatican to be the sole spokesman for Christianity. The Protestants and the Vatican have reached an understanding that it is better if they divide the Christians in the world among themselves.

Once these old Churches in the Middle East die out, Christianity can become the sole preserve of the West, which West can then subfranchise to the various colored races all across the world!
svinayak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:
Once these old Churches in the Middle East die out, Christianity can become the sole preserve of the West, which West can then subfranchise to the various colored races all across the world!
Why cant the Indians understand this
Pranav
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

RajeshA wrote:The Protestants and the Vatican have reached an understanding that it is better if they divide the Christians in the world among themselves.
Rather, both the Protestants and the Vatican have been tamed by the financial elites. Protestantism was since its very inception 500 years ago a sponsored subversive movement. The Vatican apparently held out until the 1960's before succumbing.
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

the western power elite love diversity only when it helps them destroy the status quo. Removal of orthodox churches of the east means that Vatican's is the only christian narrative for future generations in absence of any competing narrative, especially those based out of middle-east; the birthplace of Christ.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Putin Articulates Syria Settlement Plan
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday articulated his plan for a peaceful settlement to the civil conflict in Syria.

“We believe that the course of action should be as follows: ending violence, conducting negotiations, searching for a solution, laying down a constitutional basis for the future society [first], and only then introducing structural changes, not vice versa. The other way around there would only be chaos,” Putin said at a meeting with Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti.

If incumbent President Bashar Assad is removed from power unconstitutionally, the civil war in the country would be “endless,” Putin added.

The Russian president said Syria’s future should be decided “not by a military victory or defeat of one of the sides, but by negotiations, on the basis of compromise and agreements reached.”

“Our stance is well known: the first thing that should be done is to ensure that… both the government and the armed opposition cease violence and engage in negotiations,” he said.

Monti said that a feasible option for Syria, in his opinion, is the “Lebanese scenario,” first applied after the 2005 assassination of a Lebanese tycoon and leading political figure Rafic Hariri.

“I mean creating a transitional government to include all parts of the Syrian society,” the Italian premier said.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Just re-iterates what I said yesterday:
All this is bound to happen - no movement on the Syria front. As deaths increase and Obama is telling everyone to keep quiet and STFU, things spiralling out of control, now Obama is gettng criticized for doing very little... So now Obama has 2 choices - make the covert efforts known in the public to improve his rating and do something drastic like authorise military action in a joint manner to seize assets.
U.S. Mounts Quiet Effort to Weaken Assad's Rule
By ADAM ENTOUS, JULIAN E. BARNES and NOUR MALAS

The U.S. has been mounting a secret but limited effort to speed the fall of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad without using force, scrambling spies and diplomats to block arms and oil shipments from Iran and passing intelligence to front-line allies.

A centerpiece of the effort this year focused on getting Iraq to close its airspace to Iran-to-Syria flights that U.S. intelligence concluded were carrying arms for Assad loyalists—contrary to flight manifests saying they held cut flowers. The U.S. has also tried to keep ships believed to carry arms and fuel for Syria from traversing the Suez Canal, with mixed results.

The behind-the-scenes efforts by the Central Intelligence Agency, the State and Treasury departments and the military point to a broader American role in the campaign against Mr. Assad than previously acknowledged. The efforts have ramped up recently as relations with some in the Syrian opposition have warmed and as Mr. Assad has grown more desperate for supplies.

Skeptics within the Obama administration and on Capitol Hill, however, say U.S. pressure is hit-or-miss and comes too late to ensure U.S. influence over any post-Assad future. Many Syrian opposition leaders complain the U.S. hasn't done enough and say the efforts of regional allies such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, in some cases to ship arms, are more significant.

U.S. officials acknowledge the limitations that come from the Obama administration's unwillingness to get entangled in the conflict. While some weapons flights to Syria have been stopped, officials say intelligence is hard to obtain and overseas governments can be balky about cooperation. Some shipments of arms and fuel for Syria have slipped through.

Syrian opposition leaders acknowledge stepped-up contacts in recent months with State Department and CIA officials, mostly in southern Turkey. But rebel leaders say the U.S. could have pressed for a more concerted campaign to close down air and sea routes that resupply Mr. Assad's forces, including the Suez Canal, earlier on.

"The Americans say to us that they have allowed the regional players to help us, but if they think this is an achievement…then they should know this is weak and inadequate support," said Louay Mokdad, a logistics coordinator for the rebel Free Syrian Army. He and two rebel commanders offered examples of requests they said weren't met, including for satellite images and an operations room.

A senior U.S. intelligence official said the administration recently decided to ramp up efforts to counter the Syrian regime.

"There is a renewed effort to crack down in any way possible," another senior U.S. official said, pointing to stepped-up efforts to block certain shipments through the Suez Canal, which is controlled by Egypt.

That U.S. effort, described by officials familiar with it, is among the few concrete measures the administration is taking to bring to an end one of the last and bloodiest battles of the Arab Spring. It is symbolic of a broader shift in the U.S. approach to hot spots, away from expensive ground campaigns and toward covert and diplomatic operations.

Some administration and military officials believe they are putting pressure on Mr. Assad. Others expressed doubt about the strategy's effectiveness, with one skeptic likening it to trying to dam a stream by standing in the middle of it.

House intelligence committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R., Mich.) said the effort "stops far too short of really having an impact" because there are so many ways to get arms into Syria, including smuggling routes through Lebanon.

"We're just nowhere near where we need to be," Mr. Rogers said.


A spokesman for the White House National Security Council declined to comment on specific efforts. "It's clear that the Assad regime is losing control of Syria," said the spokesman, Tommy Vietor, pointing to a bombing in Damascus last week that killed top Assad advisers.

Officials said the U.S. has been providing intelligence about developments in Syria to the Turkish and Jordanian militaries working closely with the rebels.

Imagery from military-controlled satellites and other surveillance equipment includes details about Syrian military sites that could help rebels in targeting as well as in tracking the regime's chemical weapons, officials said.

They also said the CIA has provided limited intelligence to some opposition groups and used its informants to work with opposition elements. The CIA declined to comment.

One example of the U.S. approach—and of its limitations—came earlier this year when the U.S. sought to pressure Iraq to curtail flights between Iran and Syria across Iraqi airspace. That supply route opened wide after the U.S. completed its troop withdrawal from Iraq in December, U.S. administration and military officials say.


The next month, the CIA picked up detailed intelligence that Iran was using an Iranian private cargo airline, Yas Air, to fly arms over Iraq to Syria, according to U.S. officials.

With U.S. warplanes no longer patrolling Iraqi skies, the U.S. had few options except to cajole the Iraqis to act. In an official complaint to Baghdad called a démarche, the U.S. demanded an end to the flights, said officials briefed on the discussions. "You've got to stop this," the Americans told Iraqi leaders, according to one senior U.S. official.

The démarche appeared to persuade the Iraqis to act, according to American officials; the flights stopped.

But in late January and early February, the CIA began to track flights of Syrian government AN-76 cargo planes between Syria and Iran, a new tactic.

According to U.S. officials, Syria and Iran sought to disguise the cargo of flights leaving Iran, in some cases with manifests citing flowers and farm equipment. CIA analysts concluded the manifests were false and pointed to the involvement of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps in the flights, said people briefed on the intelligence.

Iran denies providing arms to Syria. A Syrian foreign ministry spokesman called the notion of arms shipments from Iran "baseless."

In a series of démarches in February and March, U.S. diplomats warned Iraq its failure to act against the flights ran counter to Iraq's obligations under U.N. Security Council resolutions.

Iraqi leaders were initially dismissive of U.S. intelligence but said they would investigate.

Iraq sent its minister of transportation, Hadi Ameri, to Tehran to discuss the flights, according to U.S. officials. The Iranians said the flights weren't carrying arms, a message the Iraqis relayed to skeptical U.S. officials. Mr. Ameri couldn't be reached for comment.

While U.S. and Iraqi officials went back and forth on the issue, several Syrian cargo planes made the trip to Iran and back without interference.

As Iraq prepared to play host to an Arab League meeting at the end of March, which would showcase its emergence from American occupation, U.S. officials raised the possibility Iraq would face disclosures about the flights—an embarrassment because most Arab nations had turned against Mr. Assad.

The warning appeared to get through. Iraqi leaders told the U.S. they might search the suspect flights. Two weeks before the Arab League summit, the flights of the Syrian AN-76 cargo planes abruptly stopped, U.S. officials say.

A spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Iraqi authorities routinely stop cargo planes that fly over Iraq to Syria or leave directly from Iraq to Syria to make sure they aren't carrying arms.

U.S. officials said the effort to block resupply flights continues and includes a renewed focus on Suez Canal traffic.

One ship currently seeking permission to enter the canal is owned by a subsidiary of Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, according to U.S. officials.

The ship, the Amin, has already passed through the canal once, to the chagrin of the U.S. It traveled last month to the Syrian port of Banias, where it is believed to have unloaded gasoline for the Syrian regime and then picked up Syrian crude oil to take to Iran. Now the ship is seeking approval to pass back through the Suez Canal.

U.S. officials tracking the shipment said a subsidiary of Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines has repeatedly changed the Amin's shipping flags to continue operating despite U.S. and European Union sanctions.

U.S. officials are in negotiations with the Egyptian government in an effort to block the Amin's return, arguing that it isn't properly flagged and that it doesn't have internationally recognized insurance.
—Siobhan Gorman, Jay Solomon and Ali A. Nabhan contributed to this article.

Write to Adam Entous at [email protected], Julian E. Barnes at [email protected] and Nour Malas at [email protected]

A version of this article appeared July 23, 2012, on page A1 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: U.S. Mounts Quiet Effort To Weaken Assad's Rule.
Lol... Basically Obama is not doing enough. CIA opreatives are helping organise the rebels and then the SF are conducting surveillance on the chemical weapons targets (obviously this is omitted as it puts lives at risk). The GCC is the one supplying intel to the US on Syria!!
Agnimitra
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^ GOTUS has become an incompetent circus without a singular coherent purpose, especially the current admin. It run by contractors and other stakeholders who each have their own purposes, interests and preferences about timelines and howmuch to prolong or cut short an engagement.
Johann
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Philip wrote:It is only the apologists for the west's devilry who proclaim that the FSA is a genuine Syrian opposition and not the bloodthirsty mercenaries of the West,who as reports have indicated,indulge in savagery that terrifies the Syrians,who prefer the authoritarian regime of Assad to the bloodthirsty mob of the FSA.
Philip, why has Hamas, which used to be based in Damascus turned against Asad?

How about a simpler question - why was Arab opinion for Saddam during the Gulf wars, but against Asad and Ghadafi in the Arab Spring? Why are the generally Anti-American Arabs not waving the Anti-Imperialist flag with you?

Perhaps it has something to with why why have dozens of Asad's generals, ministers and senior bureaucrats defected? These are people and families that have been part of the regime for decades. Do you think they were never offered money before?

Are you *still* sure everything can be explained through the West and a desire to defend Western actions?

Explanations must fully account for facts. Otherwise its just reflexive dogma.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

The answer to your questions is the soudis and (anti Iranism), another tyrant family.

Johann, there are underlying problems and opinions pointing to every corner. It is psyops which can help determine one opinion over other, just as Saddam was toppled due to WMDs. So no I dont fall for this "arab opinion".

Please do not think that we think Asad is good. Good riddance that Asad is going, but FSA is simply going to be a form of "my ba$tard" of west than anything else. All I see over this arab spring is replacing one tyrant with western supported tyrant (who is more islamist). From my reading of history, that is even badder news than the original tyrant himself.

I dont differentiate between an Asad, Hamid of Bahrain or Abdullah of Soudi or the mullahs of Iran and expect us support one over other for the sake of the fake human rights western orgs and intelligence orgs.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Virupaksha wrote:The answer to your questions is the soudis and (anti Iranism), another tyrant family.
So in that case, why did most Arabs also cheer when Mubarak and Ben Ali fell?
I dont differentiate between an Asad, Hamid of Bahrain or Abdullah of Soudi or the mullahs of Iran and expect us support one over other for the sake of the fake human rights western orgs and intelligence orgs.
The point is not whether some Indians or many Indians cheer for this or that dictator.

The point is to correctly assess on whose side Arab public opinion is, and why its there.

Philip made some pretty unsupportable claims that only pro-Western people support the FSA.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

French sign defence cooperation with Bahrain.

French to be taught in all stages in Bahrain

Russian airlines will stop flights to Damascus from August.
Virupaksha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

Johann wrote:
Virupaksha wrote:The answer to your questions is the soudis and (anti Iranism), another tyrant family.
So in that case, why did most Arabs also cheer when Mubarak and Ben Ali fell?
Did they do it outside of their countries? Check on who exactly were "cheering", can they cheer without the permission of their local tyrant and what does that permission imply?
The point is not whether some Indians or many Indians cheer for this or that dictator.

The point is to correctly assess on whose side Arab public opinion is, and why its there.

Philip made some pretty unsupportable claims that only pro-Western people support the FSA.
Again a mythical "arab public opinion" created by extreme psy-ops.

FSA was created, is running right now only on the western support. Take that off, what will the effect of FSA? FSA will collapse within days and so what does it tell us.

The question is not whether Asad should go. The question is why was FSA "chosen" to lead, remember the case of Pakistan and US during 1980s in afghanistan. The question was not whether Dostum, Massoud, Rabbani were fighting PDPA. The question is why was Hekmatyar "chosen" to lead, who strictly speaking fought the least against PDPA.
Last edited by Virupaksha on 24 Jul 2012 01:51, edited 2 times in total.
paramu
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by paramu »

Johann wrote:
Virupaksha wrote:The answer to your questions is the soudis and (anti Iranism), another tyrant family.
So in that case, why did most Arabs also cheer when Mubarak and Ben Ali fell?
You can always find people cheering whenever any kind of political event happens. To say that that is what most of the people wantis bit of a stretch. The western media that talks so much about Syrian government's human rights violations and the achievements of opposition avoid talking about the crimes being committed by the rebels and what general public feel about that.

A comparison I could make is with the coverage of Sri Lankan violence. Far more Tamil leadership and people were killed by LTTE and western agencies never talk about that. Rather they would focus on the violence at the end of the crisis that brought potentially lasting peace to the region. They would let LTTE remnants operate from their shores, raise money, and re group as they are western lackeys. What they say through the media is how they want to push the agenda.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

CIA/DIA speaking to Maliki about Iraq/Syria border posts taken over by AQ fighters. Pentagon is postponing F16 sale to Iraq, putting conditions on the sale (i.e. stop equipment flowing to Asad from Iran).
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Virupaksha ji - Western role is minimal in this case.

Public opinion - it does exist to an extent but at the same time its controlled in some parts. The west does pay attention to it. London is also a good place to guage arab opinion - between 500k - 1million arab people just in London with their own media outlets.

---------------------
Iraq rejection of Arab League statement on Syria calling on Asad to quit was met with 26 blasts today - then he reopenned the borders for refugees to seek shelter in Iraq
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Shyamd, is it all about herps? The Golden Crescent runs from Af_Pak, Iran, Lebanon/Syria.

Both ends of the crescent are on fire.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

herps?
ShauryaT
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ShauryaT »

RajeshA wrote:The West didn't care about Iraqi Christians, or the Coptic Christians in Egypt or does so now about Syrian Christians. Actually the presence of these other Christian denominations dilutes the claim of the Vatican to be the sole spokesman for Christianity. The Protestants and the Vatican have reached an understanding that it is better if they divide the Christians in the world among themselves.

Once these old Churches in the Middle East die out, Christianity can become the sole preserve of the West, which West can then subfranchise to the various colored races all across the world!
Yes, but what will they do about the Slavs and their Russian and Greek cousins? Until, Russia is around the Orthodox church lives.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pranav »

ShauryaT wrote:Yes, but what will they do about the Slavs and their Russian and Greek cousins? Until, Russia is around the Orthodox church lives.
Kosovo is an example of how the Slavs are handled.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Virupaksha wrote:
So in that case, why did most Arabs also cheer when Mubarak and Ben Ali fell?
Did they do it outside of their countries? Check on who exactly were "cheering", can they cheer without the permission of their local tyrant and what does that permission imply?
I was in Mexico City when it happened, where there is a significant Arab expat population. There were huge spontaneous parties. I was invited to one in a restaurant by an elderly friend of mine, a professor of Arabic who had supported Nasser back in 1952 when he was a student at Cairo University. The atmosphere was electric and emotional. None of them could believe it. They were so excited about the idea of Egypt having free and fair elections for the first time ever - they've been waiting for this since the first revolution in 1919.

I know speaking to others that there were similar scenes all over the world wherever there were Egyptians. Nobody thought the day would come.
Again a mythical "arab public opinion" created by extreme psy-ops.
Sorry, but from my experience the people most likely to dismiss Arab opinion as 'psy ops' are the ones least likely to have Arab associates and friends they have spoken to about what is going on. Most Arabs are simultaneously pro-Arab Spring and anti Western-intervention.
The question is why was FSA "chosen" to lead, remember the case of Pakistan and US during 1980s in afghanistan. The question was not whether Dostum, Massoud, Rabbani were fighting PDPA. The question is why was Hekmatyar "chosen" to lead, who strictly speaking fought the least against PDPA.
The FSA is not a single monolithic, coherent body.

Its a bunch of many local outfits in many areas, only united by a common cause. Anyone who organises an anti-Assad militia can and does call themselves 'FSA'.

I am not concerned about the FSA as a whole, especially the defectees from the regular army who make up the bulk of the most effective units - rather I am concerned that as in Libya the Gulf states -especially Qatar- are supporting the least professional, most Islamist outfits. So yes, I'm with you on the Hekmatyar comparison.

However, what heartens me is that the Syrians are much, much better educated than the Afghans. In the end its the Syrians who will chose who they are willing to have rule them. They will not put up with out of control beards, or with 'opposition leadership' parachuted in from abroad.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Voilent clash and more deaths in Iraq , what a legacy have the Americans left out here generations are destroyed while they laugh out with the oil and money to the bank.
Iraq attacks in Baghdad and north 'kill 107'

A wave of bomb attacks and shootings in Baghdad and north of the capital has killed at least 107 people, say security and medical officials.

Many of those killed were security forces - who appear to have been a prime target, correspondents say.

One of the worst-hit places was Taji, a Sunni neighbourhood some 20km (12 miles) north of Baghdad, where at least 41 people were killed.

At least 216 people were wounded on one of the bloodiest days of the year.

Some 19 Iraqi towns and cities were hit in the spate of apparently co-ordinated attacks.
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