Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 26 Jan 2017 09:41

RajeshG wrote: The following link has tax-to-GDP numbers for several countries

That's assuming the GDP numbers are not bogus - as they are in various countries.
A lot of useless stuff like banking and moving paper around gets counted into GDP even though it produces nothing.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Jan 2017 17:59

Subject: Need your immediate help in this signature campaign
Dear all:
Diaspora Indians with foreign citizenship and OCI/PIO card holders are being turned away by Reserve bank of India from depositing their demonetized currencies, although govt. had announced that it has extended the date for NRIs to deposit their currencies till June 30th, 2017. However, Diaspora Indians with foreign citizenship after standing outside the gate for several hours and when they reach the gate, they have been told that only NRIs with Indian passport can go inside. It is a major issue to be corrected. GOPIO has now taken up this issue and has sent this appeal to Hon. Prime Minister Modi.

Indians who left India to earn their living should not be deprived of their hard earned money because they were not in India to deposit the demonetized notes when banks were accepting the notes.
GOPIO International Executive Council requests you to sign up this petition and forward it to your family members and friends (including in India) and request them to sign up and support this campaign.
Our goal is to reach 10000 signatures in one week and we need your help and support. You can read more and sign the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/prime-minister ... responsive

Thank you.
Cordially,
Dr. Thomas Abraham
Chairman, GOPIO International

If this is true, then there is need for many lampposts in the vicinity of Rejerb Baink of India.
WTF? How can these assholes discriminate against OCI holders when the law passed by Parliament and signed by the President clearly says that OCI==citjen except in VOTING RIGHTS and SECURITY CLEARANCE ???

And these RBI goons are allowed to hold government jobs? They are fundamentally crooked.

Of course, I want to hear the other side of this, but the Petition is from very reliable, very pro-India sources.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jan 2017 23:41

PIOs have no business keeping Indian currency with them in the first place.

As a resident are we allowed to hoard foreign currency? Nope. I think it is the same with all countries with a reasonable legal system in place.

Too much sense on entitlement.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 00:08

PIOs have no business keeping Indian currency with them in the first place.

Ah! Spoken like a true RBI Baboo. Of course that may be an Oxy-Moron.

With all due respect, people do keep a certain amount of currency of other countries with them if they need to have travel/contacts with those countries. Enough to pay the sudden "baggage surcharge" that airlines in India charge with their convoluted rules. (Air India - for flights on Air India ticket, allowance is very liberal EXCEPT if the flight is on Alliance Air although the tickets says Air India and nowhere mentions Alliance Air, where it suddenly becomes 15kg.)

Enough to buy breakfast at Bengaluru airport at 3AM: around 1200 rs for a family of 4 minimum.

Also, to be able to stay a night in a hotel when Airlines cancel flights.

When you have just gone through 4 hours of trudging in check-in/immigration/security lines, the last thing you want to do is stand in another Currency Exchange Line - and get ripped off, so you can get ripped-off again when you re-enter the country at 2AM 6 months later. You keep enough money with you.

So this may come to about Rs. 5000 to 10,000 per traveler. Let's say 40,000 for a family of 4.

This is specifically allowed in India's rules for currency. Your idea of "not allowed" is 1960s-vintage socialist/communist India, it may need a bit of revision. Yes, it's true, Indians were allowed $5 in Foreign Exchange and Taking Indian Rupees Abroad Was Strictly Forbidden. Except for members of the government, and their chamchas.

Secondly, please look up the concept of "OCI" and the laws passed by India circa 2004-2005 - I assume you are an Indian citizen, so it would be a good thing to look up such things from time to time since your Baboos are 3-star King ignorant p.o.s.

The Overseas Indian Citizen is someone who has all rights of an Indian citizen except to vote, hold elected positions in government, and get Security Clearances - except where specifically approved by Parliament.
"All countries" don't have such systems, India does.

So where in the above is the "right to hold Indian currency" taken away? OCIs have exactly the same rights as resident Indians to hold Indian currency.

Why should they have to come to India within a certain time to deposit that? Why not have the local consulate take the money back? Empower overseas branches of SBI to exchange?

To make it much worse, as the DeMo was originally framed, it specifically said that people resident abroad would have until end of March, maybe end of June, to deposit the money back.

I hope (and it probably will happen) that someone sues the pants off the RBI baboon for this.

As for your comment about "entitlement", I can turn around and describe your post as "petty jealosy of Marxist losers", so let's not go there, hain? AS pointed out in the Petition, it is the hard-earned money of honest people. Somehow in India, the concept of honest people having rights, tends to be forgotten by both the government and its baboons, as well as the Marxists.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Jan 2017 00:22

PIOs have no business keeping Indian currency with them in the first place.

I have currency from 12 nations. Just enough to get me to and from, eat a wee bit and spend on M&M if available.

I bet some are no longer valid. But that is a problem I created.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 28 Jan 2017 00:27

RajeshG wrote:
Austin wrote:Subbarao: Note ban may be akin to Iraq WMD fiasco if results not tangible

Q: Your litmus test, you said, should be at least 1 percent more taxes. You mean 1 percent of GDP? It rises from 11-12 percent or whatever?

A: Right. At least 1 percent, otherwise I do not think the cost benefit calculus would be positive. And you must recognise that this 1 percent is on a permanent basis. It is not just this year, but every year. And of course, there will be other benefits of demonetisation like all of this black economy coming into the formal white economy and that having a multiplier effect and the digitisation, etc. and of course, corruption going down.
The following link has tax-to-GDP numbers for several countries

http://www.bloombergquint.com/opinion/2 ... al-nuances

Australia - 22.2%
Brazil - 13.1%
Canada - 11.9%
China - 9.7%
India - 11
Russia - 13.4%
Singapore - 13.9%
Sweden - 26.3%
Switzerland - 9.5%
UK - 25%
USA - 11%
Euro Area - 17.4%

These numbers may all be true but they are not comparable. Tax to GDP ratio in USA has almost always been between 20-24% of GDP.

These numbers get reported differently for example Federal govt tax to GDP or total Govt Taxes to GDP. Some taxes can be treated as taxes or off budget savings scheme (social security/Medicare).

Almost all the countries listed above would be around 20% except for India and may be China. Indian total tax (again from memory) collection to GDP is around 13-15%.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2017 00:30

people should have been paying by cards at airport counters. or call ahead and clear luggage rules. or have the excess cash handed back to relatives who came for send off.

allowing nri to deposit huge amounts at rbi can be a loophole that can be abused. they will have several ways to cover for that money as tax paid money or tax exempted money. there is nothing stopping an nri dude depositing lakhs of old money and taking commission or favors or whatever.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 28 Jan 2017 00:37

UlanBatori wrote:your Baboos .

Of yeah? What are you doing here in BRF? Leave it for those whom RBI matters. Get lost.

UlanBatori wrote:your Baboos
As for your comment about "entitlement", I can turn around and describe your post as "petty jealosy of Marxist losers", so let's not go there, hain? AS pointed out in the Petition, it is the hard-earned money of honest people. Somehow in India, the concept of honest people having rights, tends to be forgotten by both the government and its baboons, as well as the Marxists.

Hideous name calling.
And I can very much surmise you have gone by my surname, which by the way unlike people like you require a pair of balls to post by real name.
So, you are are racist, regional chauvinist ignoramus, polluting every thread with your barely legible posts.

And if staying behind in India means "Marxist loser", then let it be. Don't need your labels.
Due apologies to other NRI's (that I have been at some point in time as well ) that understand the nuances on this matter ... we residents are at least not kissing up to an Anglo-Saxon a$$ for perpetuity.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 00:43

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 28 Jan 2017 00:45

Things like needing cash for excess baggage, emergency hotel stay etc. are excuses.
These fairly tales to be told to gullible people that have not travelled around.

Honestly, these can be managed by credit card / debit card / forex cards / travellers cheques etc. There are many options.

I had used cash only once, paying fine for over staying visa by 2 days. Used my Indian debit card to withdraw foreign currency. That was all.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 00:55

there is nothing stopping an nri dude depositing lakhs of old money and taking commission or favors or whatever.

Except whatever stops a RNI dude doing ditto. So isn't this prejudice/paranoia exactly the problem? NRIs coming to RBI door must be crooks. Barricade the doors! RBI open only for RNI crooks.

Now for the above:

I had used cash only once, paying fine for over staying visa by 2 days. Used my Indian debit card to withdraw foreign currency. That was all.

Sounds easy. Except, why would an OCI or PIO have an Indian Debit Card at all? If they have that, they have an Indian bank account, and traceability in India. Why not let them deposit notes at RBI?

Most PIOs won't have an Indian debit card. Here's one example. IndusInd Bank. You ask them for a debit card. You go to their branch in your ancestral slum and fill out the request. The buggers will send the card to you at your local address. And the PIN to your foreign address. And oh! You have to use the PIN inside 90 days or it is not valid. So next time you come to India you go there and request the same. Very nice ppl. They send you a new card. And their Singapore branch sends the PIN to you by Courier - to your foreign address. So net result is, no debit card.

(But per the best accountants in Ancestral Village, IndusInd is very nice. Customer came to the accountant with a Credit Card. Name on the card:

The Late Mr. AbujakshaSinghChettiar Chackoullah Khan

Asked him why it said "Late"

"Oh that card belonged to my grandfather. When he passed away I reported his demise, so they sent me this new card".

Yes, one could use a foreign credit card at the tea-shop in Bengaluru airport at 3AM when there is a long line behind one. Or can one? I haven't dared try that. Cash worked better: the 700 rupees I had in coins and small notes. My stash of 17 haraam 1000-Re notes stayed inside bag.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 28 Jan 2017 01:21

UlanBatori wrote:
I had used cash only once, paying fine for over staying visa by 2 days. Used my Indian debit card to withdraw foreign currency. That was all.
Sounds easy. Except, why would an OCI or PIO have an Indian Debit Card at all? If they have that, they have an Indian bank account, and traceability in India. Why not let them deposit notes at RBI?

What has this situation has anything to do with whatever country's debit/credit card you posses?
You are in a situation where the immigration will accept fine in local currency only. Use your debit/card at the nearest ATM, and the ATM will spit out local currency only. How is the origin country going to matter here?

For your information there is a RBI circular (issued in 2013) stating that no foreigner or NRI should leave India with INR in possession. Google that. PIO / OCI holders are technically foreigners. Check your facts.

I understand the angst, which is reasonable, because RBI has done a U turn. Which is again due to the fact that people have been exploiting workarounds with impunity.

But what is not understandable as why PIO / OCI holders should be holding INR. Why are they filing petition if they are on sound legal ground, with electronic traceability and so on? Legally not tenable.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 28 Jan 2017 01:40

After Nov 8th, I have been asked by dubious parties in Bharat if they could send bundles of rupee cash to foreign land so that NRIs could help
in converting those into legal tender.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 03:22

What has this situation has anything to do with whatever country's debit/credit card you posses?

I wouldn't know. I was responding to some postor who thought it did because they posted it. You may want to pose the question to that postor.

You are in a situation where the immigration will accept fine in local currency only. Use your debit/card at the nearest ATM, and the ATM will spit out local currency only. How is the origin country going to matter here?

Easiest option is to use the currency of that locality if you have it, so that is a good reason to have it. Going around hunting for an ATM at 2AM is not my idea of a sound planning

For your information there is a RBI circular (issued in 2013) stating that no foreigner or NRI should leave India with INR in possession. Google that. PIO / OCI holders are technically foreigners. Check your facts.

Good idea, please do check and educate yourself. There are signs prominently placed at airports in India that clearly say the opposite - I think it says Rs. 10,000 per person is perfectly fine. Of that I have no doubt at all. Oh, this is 2017, maybe that's the reason, it is not 2013. Or maybe the airports/customs and RBI do not communicate with each other since they don't check the law of the land.

BTW, there is a sign in front of the major temple in my ancestral village that also says:
FOREIGNERS NOT ADMITTED.

I don't think that was put up by someone who knows their oiseule from a hole in the ground either. Not an isolated instance of that characteristic....

Here you go:

The next question is how much money they can take by hand. Unfortunately, there is lot of confusing information online, including some official websites, which are not updated in the past one year (since announcement of new rules during early 2016). Even RBI and Customs website have pages which are not updated. Here is the up-to-date information based on Reserve Bank of India notification dated 4 February 2016.{Ah, SO!! Let's see: 2016 is after 2015 which after 2014 which is after 2013, so I think 2013 is even before NaMO election. So the Ban on NRI Carrying INR is SONIA RULE!!!}
Importing Indian Currency
As RBI norms, passengers (excluding citizens of Pakistan or Bangladesh) coming to India may carry Indian currency up to Rs. 25,000. {Ah! My mistake! I thought it was only 10,000 per person, but it wouldn't matter to me because of the calculations I posted before}
The information you see on most websites – like Rs 7500, Rs 10000 etc – are old limits prior to 2016. For those who need to see official confirmation from government, see the RBI notification:
Detailed explanation from Reserve Bank of India Notification

"“Any person resident outside India, not being a citizen of Pakistan or Bangladesh, and visiting India …. may bring into India currency notes of Government of India and Reserve Bank of India notes up to an amount not exceeding Rs.25,000 (Rupees Twenty Five Thousand only) per person”

Confucious say.. He Hu Wax Pompous And Pretend 2 Know All Facts .... (never mind what Confucious said)

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jan 2017 03:57

This is from 2013:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 679752.cms
"NRIs, foreigners can’t leave with rupee".

But this is from 2014:
http://www.livemint.com/Money/xlZJZ0JJQ ... broad.html

On 19 June, the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) allowed all residents and non-residents, except individuals from Pakistan and Bangladesh, to carry Indian currency notes up to Rs.25,000 while leaving the country.

The change

The central bank stated that it was looking to provide convenience to travellers. To address the requirements of residents and non-residents visiting India, RBI decided to allow all residents and non-residents to carry Indian currency notes up to Rs.25,000 while leaving the country. They can also bring Indian currency up to Rs.25,000 into India every time they visit. However, citizens of Pakistan and Bangladesh travelling to and from India will not be allowed to carry Indian currency. Resident individuals travelling to Nepal and Bhutan will also not be allowed to carry Indian currency.

PS: this one above from 2014 I'm able to verify, here is the RBI notification:
https://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/Notifica ... 949&Mode=0

And this is from 2016:
https://www.asian-voice.com/Finance/Exp ... le-leaving

Expatriates and foreigners who are leaving the country will have to compulsorily change Indian rupees in their possession into a foreign currency before they board the flight.

PS: I think this 2016 news-story is bogus. The most recent notification that I could find from the RBI regarding export and import of currency is from February 4, 2016
https://rbi.org.in/scripts/Notification ... 0&Id=10268
and among other things it says:

b) Any person resident outside India, not being a citizen of Pakistan or Bangladesh, and visiting India,

may take outside India currency notes of Government of India and Reserve Bank of India notes up to an amount not exceeding Rs.25,000 (Rupees Twenty Five Thousand only) per person
may bring into India currency notes of Government of India and Reserve Bank of India notes up to an amount not exceeding Rs.25,000 (Rupees Twenty Five Thousand only) per person

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 04:23

Oh, how crystal clear GOI is. The February 4 2016 is between your 2014 and November 10, 2016 rules. But hopefully that last one was temporary as in being imposed 8th November: remember that the deal was that ppl staying in Phoren could exchange old notes until March, so it would have been wise to prevent large exports of old notes in suitcases, to be whitened and brought back in March. That would have been a "duh" for the Usual People: buy a ticket to Doobai, send Abdul with 2 suitcases full of old notes. The restriction makes sense.

Hopefully they will revert to the Feb 4 2016 rule soon, because as it stands, ppl coming in can get their passports stamped along with OLD NOTE currency declaration (several forms to be filled as someone had posted on this thread), and get those exchanged (at RBI) - that is what is causing the angst because maybe ppl are going to RBI without the right forms filled out.

Note that the Nov. 10 rule didn't say "can't bring in", only "must dispose after you finish shopping after Security". AFAIK, those ppl (beyond security) are in "Duty-Free" hain? Do they even TAKE Indian currency, or insist on dolahs? I try not to buy anything there, I assume it is overpriced. They can do this one without removing the signs that still say you can bring in up to 25K per passenger.

I am quite sure that no one asked me when I was leaving in early Jan (NOTE: POST-DEC.30 so too late for innocent trouble-free import of old notes) whether I had Indian currency. So my stash of 1,750,0000,0000,000,352,43.25 in spanking-new, crisp, pink 2000-Re NaMoDeMO notes is safe and making all the Geiger Counters in the neighborhood go click-click!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 28 Jan 2017 05:14

I can't find an RBI notification around Nov 10, 2016 about import and export of Indian currency that says you can't carry any out of India. The November 9, 2016 notification is about exchanging upto Rs 5000.
https://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/Notifica ... 685&Mode=0

1. Attention of Authorised Persons is invited to the Government of India Notification published in the Gazette of India vide S.O.3408(E) dated November 08, 2016, according to which the legal tender character of the existing and any older series banknotes in the denominations of ₹ 500 and ₹ 1000 stands withdrawn with effect from the midnight of November 8, 2016.

2. However, in terms of Paras 1 (g) and (h) of the Notification, the specified bank notes shall continue to be legal tender until November 11, 2016 interalia to the extent of transactions specified below:

(i) at international airports, for arriving and departing passengers, who possess specified bank notes, the value of which does not exceed five thousand rupees to exchange them for notes which are legal tender; and

(ii) for foreign tourists to exchange foreign currency or specified bank notes, the value of which does not exceed five thousand rupees, to exchange them for notes which are legal tender.

The RBI notifications are all here:
https://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/NotificationUser.aspx

If anyone can find a post-Feb-2014 notification withdrawing the Rs 25000 limit established back then, I'd like to see it; my searches have come up empty.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 05:35

PHEW!

My remaining gripe is that we forgot about two 500-Re notes that were stashed away somewhere deep. The bank mgr in desh just grinned when I asked on Jan. 2 if I could mail those in, and said: "They have already taken away the system for reporting and depositing old notes". Oh well! Maybe one of those notes has RaGa's signature (hope not DNA!) on it, and can be sold for a million dolahs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2017 13:25

Ibn

Bengaluru: Over Rs 200 crore has been unearthed after a 48-hour-long raid by the Income Tax department at a Credit Co-operative Society in Bengaluru. The operation, which concluded in the early hours of Republic Day, revealed that the society had mobilised this amount from a "claimed" 30,000 members and depositors.

The society, which has five branches across Bengaluru, allegedly turned depositors into members of the society first, with an admission fee.

"It was noticed that whoever approached the organization for making the deposits, was first made a member of the society for a nominal admission fee. Subsequently, members could make time deposits, purchase cash certificate, operate the savings account, among others," said the I-T department report.

In a tie-up with a nationalised bank, the members could also do electronic fund transfers and issue bearer cheques.

However, the organisation did not accept PAN numbers of depositors or comply with statutory regulations. It did not even deduct TDS on interest payments to account holders.

In addition to such irregularities, it was also found during the raid that substantial amount of cash deposits and loan repayments were made to the society after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the withdrawal of Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 notes on November 8 last year.

"The department is verifying such deposits. Preliminary investigations indicate that a substantial part of the deposits are from undisclosed sources," the report said.

Further investigation involves probing into the organisation's CEO's alleged involvement in running an unregistered chit fund with the help of family members.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 28 Jan 2017 13:55

The above news might be of vasavi bank. This is the bank of setty community which is purely business oriented. One close acquaintance was a director and got his 3.5 cr deposits caught. He has opted for amnesty scheme and this includes all his other black money which might run up to nearly 10 cr.
His grouse is that this money was his 10 years savings. The govt should have collected tax strictly back then and not allowed him to evade.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2017 14:44

Rotfl that last para

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 18:19

The amnesty scheme means that the bugger keeps 50 percent, hain? If you avoid tax the first year, you keep 100 instead of 65. In 5 years that money grows to 161, whereas legitimately, paying 35% tax on the 10 percent interest, he would have had 89. So now if he pays 50% to the govt, he keeps 80.5 vs. 89. Honesty pays in India!! Satyam Eva Jayate!! But not by much, hain? They should be taxed at 35% on the 80.5 because it is "new income" for this year.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2017 18:32

Err..50℅ is not the amnesty.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 19:47

What is?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jan 2017 20:26

25℅ more is locked into GKY for 4 years.

Compared to overhead expenses of recovering money forcibly, this is not that much less. Issue is , tax year is not over yet, money in hand can still be declared as legitimate income for this year and use fraudulent invoicing for cover.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 28 Jan 2017 20:45

UlanBatori wrote:The amnesty scheme means that the bugger keeps 50 percent, hain? If you avoid tax the first year, you keep 100 instead of 65. In 5 years that money grows to 161, whereas legitimately, paying 35% tax on the 10 percent interest, he would have had 89. So now if he pays 50% to the govt, he keeps 80.5 vs. 89. Honesty pays in India!! Satyam Eva Jayate!! But not by much, hain? They should be taxed at 35% on the 80.5 because it is "new income" for this year.

The "bugger" can also do the following :

a) Stop working at all as its no longer worth to run a business paying "swachh" income tax over and above the "hafta" to policeman, to various inspectors (weights and measures etc), forcible donations to political parties, ganesh immersion, forcible participation in bandhs etc etc
b) move money abroad either through purchase of gold or deposit abroad

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 28 Jan 2017 21:04

kiranA wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:The amnesty scheme means that the bugger keeps 50 percent, hain? If you avoid tax the first year, you keep 100 instead of 65. In 5 years that money grows to 161, whereas legitimately, paying 35% tax on the 10 percent interest, he would have had 89. So now if he pays 50% to the govt, he keeps 80.5 vs. 89. Honesty pays in India!! Satyam Eva Jayate!! But not by much, hain? They should be taxed at 35% on the 80.5 because it is "new income" for this year.
The "bugger" can also do the following :

a) Stop working at all as its no longer worth to run a business paying "swachh" income tax over and above the "hafta" to policeman, to various inspectors (weights and measures etc), forcible donations to political parties, ganesh immersion, forcible participation in bandhs etc etc
b) move money abroad either through purchase of gold or deposit abroad

For each scum who exits business and does something honest with his life, India will prosper. Good riddance.

The numbers have already proven there are many more people ready to take up business.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 28 Jan 2017 21:06

Marten wrote:
kiranA wrote:
The "bugger" can also do the following :

a) Stop working at all as its no longer worth to run a business paying "swachh" income tax over and above the "hafta" to policeman, to various inspectors (weights and measures etc), forcible donations to political parties, ganesh immersion, forcible participation in bandhs etc etc
b) move money abroad either through purchase of gold or deposit abroad
For each scum who exits business and does something honest with his life, India will prosper. Good riddance.

The numbers have already proven there are many more people ready to take up business.

Sitting at home is also "honest". Nothing much comes of it though. what do you mean many more people ready to take up? are those who currently run business not people ?

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 28 Jan 2017 21:22

Only the scum that you mention are better off sitting at home.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 28 Jan 2017 21:35

It was said "Patriotism is last refuge of the scoundrel " not without good reason. The politician loves patriotism because it can mean anything to anyone giving immense scope to spin it anyway they want for the moment. You can safely replace patriotism with "attack on black money". 99% of people dont even understand what is money (not what money gets them) but all of them think they know what is "black money" - thanks to movies etc. All of them have a face to this "black money" a face which they love to hate or want to manipulate others to hate. The face can be the local bania to some , it can be local realtor to some, a muslim trader to some etc. Obviously scoundrels love this "attack on black money" as it gives a vent to their prejudices.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 28 Jan 2017 22:31

Kiran sir, I know the person and so let me say this. Income tax is on the profit and not on sales. Profit is after all you pay the haftas. Tax on profit is no way related to corruption.
Ex: I produce a goods for 100 rs and add 30 rs hafta to it and sell it at 150 making a profit of 20. I have to pay tax on that 20. If there was no corruption, it would have been 120 and still profit of 20 rs.
I am not generalizing here but when we talk about this person, he runs into crores of accounted money.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Jan 2017 22:53

If all else fails he can always start an engg. college. Quote I read in The Hindu from a Chennai-based ex-gangster who was now Chancellor of a Deemed University:

For the first time in my life my mother would be proud of me. What I am doing is totally legal!

This is how Great Britain became Great. Retired pirates, rapists, smugglers, con artists, plain dakoos. Mansion of Lawd Rayleigh the Pirate.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 28 Jan 2017 22:57

kiranA wrote:It was said "Patriotism is last refuge of the scoundrel " not without good reason. The politician loves patriotism because it can mean anything to anyone giving immense scope to spin it anyway they want for the moment. You can safely replace patriotism with "attack on black money". 99% of people dont even understand what is money (not what money gets them) but all of them think they know what is "black money" - thanks to movies etc. All of them have a face to this "black money" a face which they love to hate or want to manipulate others to hate. The face can be the local bania to some , it can be local realtor to some, a muslim trader to some etc. Obviously scoundrels love this "attack on black money" as it gives a vent to their prejudices.

Justifying tax chori will require more logic and less verbal diarrhea. Scum who steal from honest citizens using various excuses require that big danda up their musharraf. Whatever pain they feel now will be even more amplified in a year. PM's message to such scumbags is clear: Pay your taxes or get out of business.

How much did you lose?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 29 Jan 2017 00:15

UlanBatori wrote:This is how Great Britain became Great. Retired pirates, rapists, smugglers, con artists, plain dakoos. Mansion of Lawd Rayleigh the Pirate.

Are you suggesting India is a similar land? If not, what's your point?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jan 2017 00:33

Well, since you ask: the wealth exhibited by Indians in the cities (and in the rural areas) does not make sense based on what I know of legitimate income streams, salaries etc. I think the PM said exactly that in his speech Dec 30, so I am on safe ground here. A massive de-criminalization is also needed over the next decade to rationalize the wealth distribution and make honest endeavor meaningful. Otherwise, yes, India is headed for the worst of "Industrialized Great Britain". Except that there is no tradition of taking over other ppl's lands by force.

Then again, many of the world's Great Institutions came up likewise. Where did the $$ come from, to build Leland Stanford University? Hahvahd? Columbia? Probably the same can be said of Oxford and Cambridge. Every big "beautiful Architecture" bldg in Europe and Britain came from the blood and toil and slavery of the colonies.

And let's not start on Reliance or Sahara....

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Jan 2017 00:43

Good, if even one "bugger" is suffering because their black money got caught, I am all happy and cheering, in the name of many of my relatives who have faced all kinds of difficulties, including abbreviations of career and financial prospects for refusing to participate in corruption. I hope each rupee lost stings like a million fleas.

habal · Post by **habal** » 29 Jan 2017 20:22

next week RBI will start accepting old notes once again, for limited time. Details are unclear whether old notes have to be submitted to your bank or direct to RBI. Further details are awaited.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 29 Jan 2017 20:50

Marten wrote:
kiranA wrote:It was said "Patriotism is last refuge of the scoundrel " not without good reason. The politician loves patriotism because it can mean anything to anyone giving immense scope to spin it anyway they want for the moment. You can safely replace patriotism with "attack on black money". 99% of people dont even understand what is money (not what money gets them) but all of them think they know what is "black money" - thanks to movies etc. All of them have a face to this "black money" a face which they love to hate or want to manipulate others to hate. The face can be the local bania to some , it can be local realtor to some, a muslim trader to some etc. Obviously scoundrels love this "attack on black money" as it gives a vent to their prejudices.

Justifying tax chori will require more logic and less verbal diarrhea. Scum who steal from honest citizens using various excuses require that big danda up their musharraf. Whatever pain they feel now will be even more amplified in a year. PM's message to such scumbags is clear: Pay your taxes or get out of business.

How much did you lose?

Seriously ? There is far more insight and understanding in a single line of mine than pages of your drivel. People come here to discuss issues as to how they impact the nation not taunt each others personally with "kitna tha" "kitna he" "kitna gaya". I understand in your little mind it is some clever insult but it only undermines the forum and reveal you for the joke you are. I am done with you.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 29 Jan 2017 20:56

kvraghav wrote:Kiran sir, I know the person and so let me say this. Income tax is on the profit and not on sales. Profit is after all you pay the haftas. Tax on profit is no way related to corruption.
Ex: I produce a goods for 100 rs and add 30 rs hafta to it and sell it at 150 making a profit of 20. I have to pay tax on that 20. If there was no corruption, it would have been 120 and still profit of 20 rs.
I am not generalizing here but when we talk about this person, he runs into crores of accounted money.

Are you seriously suggesting that business can report bribes as their expense ? . Regarding that person you know off why doesnt Modi go after him ?
Modi was given a historical mandate, he has CBI, IB, ACB various state governements police (esp BJP states). But he does not have the will or guts to effectively use them/cleanse them. Instead he drags 124 crore people - several handicapped, old, diseased, small businesses - in to lines under the name of ritual cleansing. what sort of governance is this ?And some people here go gaga as I said because everyone has a face which they can hate - local realtor, local bania, even that relative who made money too quick.

Morover generally accepted principle in the world is to let bad people go if it comes at cost of punishing the innocent. When you invert it like done here by some then it becomes lynch mob mentality.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Jan 2017 21:19

Morover generally accepted principle in the world is to let bad people go if it comes at cost of punishing the innocent.

This is a perversion of the actual principle, which is, if you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty, then let them free, because it is better to let a criminal walk than to punish an innocent.

Nobody was on trial here, you just had to deposit your lawful savings that were in cash into a bank account.