Internal Security Watch

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harik
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by harik »

ramana wrote:This Raj Thackery (Crankrey) is the new Bhindrenwala. He is being socially engineered to take on the Shiv Sena just as B'wala was shaped to taken on the Akali Dal. So it will end the same way unless someone shows him his future.
Ramana,

Equation is not done.

Last time , media was in control , only Punjab Kesiri suffered.
I am not even counting 'lalas'
Times are very different.

And repurcussion will be far more.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Gerard »

vsudhir
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by vsudhir »

Bravo!

Salwa Judum in the making for Orissa too or what? Sarkar ought to spare no effort at protecting, training and equipping these brave tribal youth who will take on a merciless machine powered by murderous ideology and by interested phoren hands. By doing so, they not only help their culture but more importantly save their own lands, families, traditions and culture from irreversible damage under Maoism.

After all this is over, the fighters should be absorbed into a quasi-govt paramilitary rather than remain a militia. The real task of nation-building, in this case, community development, will start then. IIRC, a team of local ex-servicemen bravely took on the task of greening the Garhwal-Kumaon hills and did a magnificient job with what little resources they had.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Rye »

This is REALLY going to get the goat of CPI(M) and PUCL and all the naxal support groups outside India -- wonder how long it will be before they do another round of caterwauling about "armed citizen groups" in India.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by chandrabhan »

Hi Friends,
I want to help contribute for the legal expenses for Sadhvi Pragya Thakur. Is there some way I can? I am appalled at the way 'secular media' has reacted. When the VC of jamia makes a decision to support the so called 'innocence' of his students by providing them legal aid, 'secular media' hailed it. Are they not aware that justice is guaranteed under the constitution in case they can't afford it. Court has to appoint a lawyer for that.
The same secular media is already branding the young Sadhvi as a terrorist without any trial and investigation. I am seething with impotent rage while the Hindu sons and daughters are pushed towards the corner and the sad part is that even the so called Hindu parties have not come forward to save it. When the same media is calling for the right of innocent till guilty, why not the same for the young sadhvi.
These same bast---- called the saraswati also the same till the supreme court cleared him of charges. why is this happening? are we , the sons and daughter of king Bharat so coward that we can't stand up for what is rightfully ours and shred what is a perpetual lie. 2 days back i saw an newspaper article and was later speaking to one of friends( young congress MP) that he was relieved that at least there is one Hindu terrorist found. We almost came to abuses and i told him that what kind of phoney man he is?
Mods, please start a fund and I am in. we should stand for what is rightful and just.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Manu »

I know it's the BBC, but I don't think they will lie when they are quoting someone.

India bus killing sparks protests
Rahul Raj, who was in his early 20s, had come to Mumbai recently to look for a job, according to his father, Kundan Pratap Singh. Mr Singh denied that his son had hijacked the bus, and that there was "something more" to the incident.
Senior politicians from Bihar state, including the federal railway minister, Laloo Prasad Yadav, expressed shock at the shooting and demanded a judicial probe into the incident. "The boy did not look like a terrorist. So [the police] could have captured the boy. The police could have spoken to him on the phone and negotiated with him," Mr Yadav said.
I think, true to his name, Lallu has slipped up. What man "looks" like a terrorist? :twisted: This, coming from one of the most Islam Pasand people in Indian politics gives us a sneak peek into the inner workings of their conniving minds. They associate Terrorism with Islam, but will do *whatever* it takes to come to power.

Also, will we have a judicial probe each time someone is shot by Cops? When will we not have a probe? When the person "looks like a terrorist"? And what kind of person "looks like a terrorist", Lallu ji? Your slip is showing.

On a separate note, I suppose no one wants to bell the cat, at least on BR, so I guess I will have to do it. If Bimaru States (U.P, Bihar) do not fix their home states a lot of people (not just the cheek to jowl multi ethnic cauldron that is Mumbai) will eventually start withdrawing their welcome mats for the Gorakhpur Express (Bangalore, NCR, Hyderabad etc will all start developing their own mini Raj Thackerays). You cannot ruin your states and then fan out and ruin others (Azamgarh Singh, Mayawati, Mulayam, Paswan, Lallu and Co. are not helping matters). UP/Bihar politicians must take the blame and deal with this issue. Decades of Misrule by them have virtually killed all hopes of a Bihar renaissance. I hope Nitish Kumar's good governance turns things around for Bihar. This was once the seat of Civilization in India.

In trying to break the Sena-BJP alliance in Maharashtra (by encouraging Raj), Congress will ensure that they fade even more quickly into oblivion when blow-back (and yes, it is certain to come) hits them. It seems they have learnt *nothing* from creating problems in Punjab and SL (two Prime Ministers Assassinated). And the entire nation will suffer.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by sum »

I for one do not agree with the relentless grilling/probing every police action. If the same guy had shot at someone, wouldnt the media been howling from the rooftops about how the police were sleeping on the job?

Maybe, the police did try to shoot but the pandu assigned was very rusty (since its years since he brandished a gun since evil police cannot be trusted with guns and even in encounters, they are not supposed to use them!! :roll: ) and shot the gun-wielding dude where he didnt want to!!

Problem is no one in the media is willing to listen to the police side of the story. I only shudder to think if the Bihari was a muslim and there was a BJP govt in power when this incident happened. The headlines would have screamed GENOCIDE!!!!
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Sanku »

Manu wrote:I hope Nitish Kumar's good governance turns things around for Bihar. This was once the seat of Civilization in India.
It is not merely a matter welcome of Purbia's in Bombay or not; the Gangetic belt is THE Indian heartland; it is not possible to craft a winning India without fixing those regions. As a matter of history -- the purbaia's have been in one way or the other catalytic for changes in Indian history; be it as Mercenaries for or against East India company or in other matters; and even till 60s Bihar was ahead of most states rather than the other way around we see now.

Further the whole idea of India will be put to test if we have masses of humanities streaming out of the Gangentic plains and not being absorbed elsewhere. This is a recipe for disaster for India and not just the regions in question. The focus on fixing the Gangentic belt as "Idea of India" has been long missing (probably because of Nehruvian brand of deracinated politics taking a great hold in the area where every thing native was bad and the land was frowned on combined with most politicians coming from that region too)

This area is the hot bed of all that ails India today -- including HFL phenomena -- and the fixes must be visited here.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by ramana »

harik wrote:
ramana wrote:This Raj Thackery (Crankrey) is the new Bhindrenwala. He is being socially engineered to take on the Shiv Sena just as B'wala was shaped to taken on the Akali Dal. So it will end the same way unless someone shows him his future.
Ramana,

Equation is not done.

Last time , media was in control , only Punjab Kesiri suffered.
I am not even counting 'lalas'
Times are very different.

And repurcussion will be far more.

harik, So impact will be greater and more uncontrolled due to open media. Can you take some time and give your ground prespective on MNS/RT and its blowback potential for the forum?
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Tanaji »

Actually, it is quite superficial dismissing Raj Thackrey and demonising him in the way that the English media has done. As usual the english media does not even go into the subtle dynamics that are in play here. One has to read the marathi newspapers to get the real gist.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by ramana »

Since Harik, appears la pata, can you do the honors?

Thanks, ramana
harik
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by harik »

Tanaji wrote:Actually, it is quite superficial dismissing Raj Thackrey and demonising him in the way that the English media has done. As usual the english media does not even go into the subtle dynamics that are in play here. One has to read the marathi newspapers to get the real gist.
Tanaji , go and speak to low down Marathi.
then come and repeat.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Rye »

seriously, what is up will allowing the likes of harik to write disruptive nonsense in every freaking thread? Even the sentences are barely complete, and he has an attitude to boot.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Tanaji »

harik wrote:
Tanaji , go and speak to low down Marathi.
then come and repeat.
Eh, care to clarify a bit? Not sure I understand ? Is there something wrong in what I posted? (All of 3 lines)
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by samuel »

http://revver.com/video/378767/indian-p ... s-on-sale/

If this is real, why should we be worried about security?

S
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by satya »

On MNS & Maharashtra politics : political dynasties ( NCP & ShivSena ) in transition from older to younger generation & coming general elections ( MNS has indeed got ground support owing to Raj's personality more at ease with Marathi Manus if i may say than that of Udhav ) might be last one under leaderships of Pawar & Senior Thackrey .
harik
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by harik »

Tanaji wrote:
harik wrote:
Tanaji , go and speak to low down Marathi.
then come and repeat.
Eh, care to clarify a bit? Not sure I understand ? Is there something wrong in what I posted? (All of 3 lines)
Tanaji,
Your post came across with some supposition , that nothing is wrong with Raj T.

My Sincere apolgoies, if I have misread You.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Singha »

does eastern UP and bihar have a comparable pop density to WB? the
rainfall and land is similar. how come we do not see hordes of WB
residents taking up odd jobs in other cities...its the BDs who move on
via WB.

could it be (cough cough) that good number of people in east UP/bihar
are living under zamindari system and are effectively landless sharecroppers?
ramana
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by ramana »

Pakiness creeping in to India.

Deccan Chronicle, 28 oct., 2008
Panchayat: Girl for girl


Lucknow, Oct. 27: A village panchayat in Saharanpur district of UP has ordered the family of a boy, who eloped with a girl a few days ago, to hand over their daughter to the girl’s family. The verdict, they said, hinged on the tit-for-tat policy. Reportedly, the boy, belonging to Ratankhedi village in Saharanpur, had eloped with a girl from a neighbouring village about three weeks back.

The girl’s family lodged a report with the Deoband police and the boy’s family members were detained. The boy’s family claimed that they had no information about the whereabouts of the couple, but promised they would make all efforts to trace them. However, the eloped couple remain untraceable and the girl’s family then requested the village panchayat to resolve the matter.

The panchayat met on Sunday and after six hours of discussions, the village elders ruled that the boy’s family should hand over their daughter to the girl’s family. “This is an eye-for-an-eye justice. If the boy has run away with their daughter, the boy’s family must hand over their daughter to them,” declared one of the panchayat members. The boy’s family has opposed the judgment and has now informed the police, but no action has been taken yet. An officer said the police was watching the situation.
Note how no mention is made of the community that this panchayat was composed of. And the media dhimmitude in not pointing this out. And ours in not having the Islamism thread.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by sum »

Link
AMU to provide 'fair defence' to blasts accused
DH News Service, Lucknow:


Close on the heels of the Jamia Milia Islamia’s decision to extend legal help to its students arrested in connection with the Delhi serial blasts, the Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) teachers also decided to launch a ‘Fair Defence Campaign’ for the two accused students.

The AMU Staff Association has decided to launch a campaign to “ensure fair defence” for the two students charged with the Delhi serial blasts in which 26 people were killed.

The secretary of the association Abdus Salam told Deccan Herald on Tuesday that a judicial inquiry must be ordered into the case. Salam said that the association had already sent a memorandum demanding a judicial probe to the President, Prime Minister and the Delhi chief minister.

Jamia Millia Islamia had already decided to provide legal help to its two students arrested for their alleged role in the blasts.

Shakeel and Zia-ur-Rehman, the two Jamia students, were arrested from New Delhi on September 21 for their alleged involvement in serial blasts.
By rushing in to defend any body of their community and provocatively naming it as "fair defence panel"(as if to say that they will not get justice just because they are IMs), the IM leaders are scoring a self goal since it only emphasizes the fact that all the terrorists were muslims and it has become a sort of duty for muslim universities to protect them as they are co-religionists!!!
Their actions do not leave a scope to view it in a non-religious and purely terrorist angle...
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Lalmohan »

satya wrote:On MNS & Maharashtra politics : political dynasties ( NCP & ShivSena ) in transition from older to younger generation & coming general elections ( MNS has indeed got ground support owing to Raj's personality more at ease with Marathi Manus if i may say than that of Udhav ) might be last one under leaderships of Pawar & Senior Thackrey .
Shiv Sena/MNS - whoever needs to develop some ideology of its own rather than repeat the same old anti-anybody nonsense. first it was anti-gujju, than anti-tamil, then anti-muslim, now anti-bhaiya... next what? these guys are no better than bhai-loge and are utterly repugnant. this episode has left me very angry.

tanaji, the 'grievances of the marathi manus's' are repeated all across India in every region. however in my observation of many marathi manus's at close quarters, many are deeply chauvanistic about almost all aspects of their identity and culture and very deprecating about other Indians - that is what appears to be implied by your 3 lines also and is what people are reacting to. the longer we persist as indians with this mindset, the worse it will be
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by RajeshA »

Any Indian who claims to be superior to other Indians falls a few notches in worth compared to the national average.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Rye »

All these parochial violent scum in MNS need to be thrown in prison with no way out before other states start copying Raj Thackeray's antics. The idea India is finished if that happens, prosperity or not.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by RajeshA »

Maharashtra for Marathis as such is even more subversive than the Two-Nation Theory, because it is a direct challenge to the foundations of the Indian Union.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by RamaY »

Rye wrote:All these parochial violent scum in MNS need to be thrown in prison with no way out before other states start copying Raj Thackeray's antics. The idea India is finished if that happens, prosperity or not.
Amen to that... The law should punish any kind of exclusivist mentality and punish it harshly, so the message is loud and clear.

I sincerely hope a nationwide whip cracking happens to put all these scum across all party lines in some undisclosed jail and throw the keys into Indian Ocean….
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Avinash R »

Lalmohan wrote:tanaji, the 'grievances of the marathi manus's' are repeated all across India in every region.
The situation is mumbai is different. the steady influx of people mainly from bihar and to a lesser extent from up has changed the voter demography. the votes of these migrants is playing a decisive role in elections.

people like abu azmi who is known to be dawood's man gets elected on samajwadi party ticket. this party which is mainly a up based party is weilding power in mumbai through such criminal characters while it cant even field candidates in neighbouring delhi or mp state.

today the fear is that these parties after destroying prosperous states like up and bihar through their corrupt means have turned their evil eyes towards mumbai which is a gold mine for them. people like laloo had no qualms in calling people from maharastra's neighbouring state as dirty but now that others are using the same language he gets angry.

this issue cant be solved by calling others chauvanistic. people in mumbai will continue to welcome people from other parts of india but are not ready to live under corrupt politicians like laloo and trojan horse paswan who are intent on turning it into another bihar, were even cow's fodder is siphoned off to fill the stomach of laloo. and paswan campaigns for his election by employing a osama lookalike, the same osama who has declared a war against india through LeT which is part of osama's network of alqaeda and which bombed mumbai trains.

the long term solution would be the development of up and bihar but this cant happen until laloo, paswan, mulayam, amar singh are there.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Avinash R »

Rye wrote:All these parochial violent scum in MNS need to be thrown in prison with no way out.
The congress and ncp are using raj to divide the shiv sena vote. For the past one year raj has continued with his brand of politics but centre and state are silently watching the tamasha rather than put an end to this. manmohan gets sleepless nights when a terror suscept is arrested but fails to take action against raj or even send a directive to vilasrao deshmukh to protect all citizens. this is congress brand of politics were people like raj are encouraged so that congress can the reap political dividends. in the coming elections i wont be surprised if mns and congress-ncp combine come to a electoral understanding.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Rye »

Lalu and Paswan did not make MNS and Raj Thackeray say all that hateful rhetoric against Bihar -- the MNS must take on Lalu and Paswan and their political parties instead of dumping on ordinary Biharis and creating public disorder.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Avinash R »

Rye wrote:Lalu and Paswan did not make MNS and Raj Thackeray say all that hateful rhetoric against Bihar
agree.
Rye wrote: -- the MNS must take on Lalu and Paswan and their political parties instead of dumping on ordinary Biharis and creating public disorder.
that is the tragedy. political parties like mns,sp and rjd dont fight against each other but against their opponents political base(voters). mulayam got a helipad constructed in his village but did not provide electricity to those villages which voted against him. this is how they play politics.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Raghavendra »

Muslims harass hindu girl and are taught a lesson
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Oct ... 897633.asp
October 29, 2008

Mandya : Tension prevailed in Nagamangala on Tuesday after a group clash ensued between two communities after an eve teasing incident of a girl belonging to a particular community.

A young woman and her family members had come to the City on some work and were standing at the bus stop waiting to go back to their native place Haralakere.

A group of youth teased the girl. Her elder brother Chandru took an objection to it and told the youths to stop it.


This led to an argument between the youths and Chandru and shortly others also joined in. The situation went out of control when stones were being thrown at each other. Fearing trouble the traders brought the shutters down.

Police intervened and resorted to a mild lathi charge to disperse the crowd. For more than half an hour the City was tense.

A group of people from one community staged a dharna demanding arrest of the youths who had teased the girl.

Police have detained one Suhail.
The police are maintaining a strict vigilance in the City.

The festival shoppers who were anxious to get back home were put to hardship because of the incident.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by shaardula »

delete
Last edited by shaardula on 29 Oct 2008 21:07, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Raghavendra »

Tanaji
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Tanaji »

I need not repeat why Thackrey is doing this: after the split with his uncle in the Sena, he wants his MNS to have its own political space. Regrettably the current Indian political scenario is such that the path of working to solve people issues and then gaining votes is a non-starter. Also, the current bureaucracy and political equations mean that non-violent, legal demonstrations are passe: no one pays any attention to those. This is not just Maharashtra, it is a nation wide trait. So one needs that extra hungaama to carve their own space.

Now Raj started this with the North Indians. His movement initially was a media creation completely. Thats where the first mistake was made by the media. A lot of hullaboo was created when he made the demand that shop keepers put signs in Marathi. Actually it was not his demand: he was simply asking for the implementation of an existing BMC ordinance. The media with their thirst of 24 x 7 issues made a hue and cry of essentially a minor law and order situation at that point. Raj, being a shrewd tea-leaves reader saw the potential for free publicity for his MNS (which at the point hardly a few people knew of) enlarged his scope... Abu Azmi (a known anti national sympathizer) played right into his hands by his statements.

The volatile statements by both sides have not helped and are rather driving this to extreme poles. Witness the threat by Lalu to stop train services to Mumbai. This has now snowballed into an "us" versus "them" thing. Lets face it, everyone likes reservations and on the surface (which is the only depth to which everyone thinks these days) Raj's idea is attractive.
Most people I speak to deplore the violence and realize that Raj is simply making scoring a political point but there is an undercurrent of latent support. Not for the whole reservation per se, but to the points that have been raised which is why should other states pay for the total fiasco of governance and development that exists in Bihar and UP? To this fuel is added by the media coverage that has created an impression that criminal activity is largely controlled by Bihar and UP gangs that largely control the kidnapping industry.

Elections are due in a few months. The NCP and the Congress thought that MNS will eat into traditional Sena vote bank that will affect the BJP. But with these provocative statements, the polarization is increasing and the feeling is that North Indians are ganging up on the state citing the "rule of the law" while they conveniently turn a blind eye against similar activities in Assam, statements of Karunanidhi in support of Tamils and the whole anti Hindi agitation in the South. Whether these are applicable or not, I dont know or cant judge, but the word on the street seems to be that "they are ganging up". Its not widespread, but in the formative stages. (Caveat Emptor: Have I spoken to everyone from all walks of life? Obviously not! So take it for what its worth). Given this latent support, do you think the Sena will hesitate one bit of making political capital out of it? This line of "teach a lesson to Raj, arrest all MNS" in my opinion has a good chance of backfiring. It would have worked if we had a strong Centre that upheld the law equally for all, but the current MMS govt is anything but that, a hodge podge of alliances for political convenience. If Sena takes up this cause (and signs are it will) how many people will you be able to arrest? Some people call for banning the Sena as well... I wonder if they realize that this is a party that has once ruled in Maharashtra so enjoys popular support, never in the history of the Indian Union has such an action been taken. IF Sena takes it up, do you think NCP will ignore it? Take into heed the statements of Narayan Rane btw in this regard.. Have you also noticed how MNS and SS dont go head to head except for minor pot shots?

There is no easy solution to this problem. "Ban MNS" approach will not work at the moment, not when elections are due in the next few months. Maybe after elections this will die down: MNS will win a few seats and even less likely a Lok Sabha seat or two which will make Raj a minor king maker and that should be the end of it. But the "make an example now" approach has a larger tendency to backfire.


-----------------------------
Allakh Niranjan!
Tanaji
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Tanaji »

The Bihari politicians are not helping their cause either when they demand a judicial enquiry for that youth who was shot on a BEST bus. Video footage exists that shows him brandishing a gun, and people on the bus reported him firing it. What did you expect the police to do? Add to the fact that BEST is a symbol of "stability" in Mumbai: if BEST is running the city is assumed to be on track in the psychological sense for most Mumbaites. When you have a person firing his gun on the bus, and gets shot in the bargain, and demands are made for charging the police with Section 302 of IPC, what image does this convey?
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by ramana »

Just as after the Jamia student terrorists incident, the politicians are mum allowing the speculation and rumors to rule the air. India does not have elected governance. The police is let to fry in its own juices. They are faulted no matter which way the tide turns.
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by sum »

if BEST is running the city is assumed to be on track in the psychological sense for most Mumbaites. When you have a person firing his gun on the bus, and gets shot in the bargain, and demands are made for charging the police with Section 302 of IPC, what image does this convey?
These constant unreasonable demands on the police of late is not understandable...

The reports indicated that a by-stander was even hit by the bullet fired from the revolver and still it is the police which is castigated? What next: stop the police from carrying weapons on night beat lest they shoot at a "innocent" robber while on patrol?
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by sugriva »

Face it. Regionalism is a big part of our identity today. We are Indians but we are also Biharis, Maharashtrians, Tamilians etc. There is this streak of regionalism in us that will not go away by browbeating anybody.

That said, the latest spark for the current round of violence is the attack on Bihari examinees by the MNS goons. No one agrees with the methods of the MNS but realize that there is genuine grievance that RajT is exploiting. All these years railway jobs at the class IV and class III levels were conducted on a railway zone basis. So for example only people from states that were part of Southern Railway could write the exams for the zone. Came Nitish Kumar as railway minister in 2002 and he allowed people from other zones also to appear for these lower level exams. A state may be a prosperous state but no local will want lower level jobs in these areas to be given to outsiders. Admit it, there are enough deserving candidates even in these zones for these jobs.

In short this was a recipe for discord. Removing this anomaly is one way to apply balm to this crisis that threatens to split apart the country. I am surprised that politicians from Maharashtra have not pointed this out to Lalu Yadav as yet and demanded that we go back to region based recruitment for lower level jobs.
Rye
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Rye »

Muslims harass hindu girl and are taught a lesson
This has nothing to do with internal security -- the article shows that the police responded and took care of the situation.
Sanku
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by Sanku »

sugriva wrote: In short this was a recipe for discord. Removing this anomaly is one way to apply balm to this crisis that threatens to split apart the country. I am surprised that politicians from Maharashtra have not pointed this out to Lalu Yadav as yet and demanded that we go back to region based recruitment for lower level jobs.
Lalu and Raj are in this together; along with Congress. They are trying to do the same nonsense on their ends. This has nothing to do with regionalism.

Any "movement" can be artificially created given enough levers (and there's a long list) -- the question is who is going to stop it?
vera_k
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Post by vera_k »

Singha wrote:could it be (cough cough) that good number of people in east UP/bihar
are living under zamindari system and are effectively landless sharecroppers?
Someone with local knowledge of UP and Bihar should confirm if this is true. Many years ago my grandfather used to rail about how post independence land reforms were stymied in Bihar, UP and AP when compared to Maharashtra. If there is truth to this another round of reforms to distribute land to landless people in these states may help matters.
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