


It is our humanitarian responsibility to offer full moral support to the Baloch people in their right to self determination, plebicite, autonomy, mercedes, aston martin, vaghera, vaghera.
As if they ever needed that excuse!and from the other perspective what stops TSP from increasing terrorist activities in J&K citing Baluchistan as an example ?
For the record:when post 26/11 we never saw any embargo on trade between Pakistan and India (learned people here should perhaps check how much the exports from India mean to Pakistan)
To be a Man one has to feel the weight of an AK-47 in one's arms
In the humble opinion of this amateur spin master neither is Chanakya's aim to save the H&D of MMS nor is to see any phenomena where none exists! All that is being attempted is to rise beyond rhetoric and not get swayed by Paki like emotions of jumping the gun and alleging conspiracy every time MMS opens mouth or concludes a deal.Raja Ram wrote:And so the second charge begins on this thread to defend the indefensible sell out. To boldly see what mere mortals cannot see. Original spinster (JSnowji) is here on the thread, that too fresh from his tour of Africa. So let him comment on the amateurish spin attempted here to save the H&D of the glorious leader, modern day chanakya, distinguished economist, oxford scholar, strong sardar PM and his great defeat of Pakistan
Agreed but then that is something that everyone knows and is in open domain. The only person who knows more than all of us put together is MMS. You believe he is a Manchurian candidate while I say let us understand his motives and policy path in the given strategic matrix. Let us agree to disagree.As I keep saying, there is no Indian interest being served by resuming talks. There is no Indian interest being served in rewarding pakistan with a badly drafted Joint Statement. There was no interest being served in meeting with the Pakistani PM in the first place. Some other country's interest was being served.
There was no clamour for talks to resume in India. Neither from the communal bad BJP nor from the peace loving secular parties like CPI(M). Heck, not even from the Gandhiji loving Congress. Then why this act of stupidity?
The PM of India should and act and behave as PM of India, not as a head clerk. Is that too much to ask from an Oxford educated scholar, economist?
No things have changed the 'azad kashmir' formula has lost sheen , the world has gradually woken up (yeah took em 50 years ) and realised so called Jihad==Terrorism, by falling for the Baloch issue India will be only drawn into the muck i.e. Terrorism in J&K == India sponsored extremism in Baluchistan .archan wrote: As if they ever needed that excuse!![]()
It is not about which is 'OLDER' but infact about which is more 'SERIOUS' and affects me or you directly J&K or some Balochistan which does not even share a border with us.
Which is older, Kashmir or Baloch issue? so why can't India turn the tables and say hey, until the jehadis keep crossing our border in Kashmir, forget Balochistan.
Negiji are you trying to say that Indian presence and its open acknowledgement by Pakistan will make Paki establishment stronger or more potent in its attacks on India? Hardly so. The fanatics in Isloo understand only force and given our establishment which believes in "inertia of peace" the only solution is pay back Pakis in thousand Kashmirs. Let a hundred -stans bloom in Pakiland, I am really surprised at the less than sanguine reaction of BRF-its to this development. I do not know how many remember but in the aftermath of 26/11 a former evil adminullah had opened a thread regarding opening a second front against the Pak fauj from the west, lo and behold there is some movement in the same direction while the jingos bay for MMS blood.negi wrote: No things have changed the 'azad kashmir' formula has lost sheen , the world has gradually woken up (yeah took em 50 years ) and realised so called Jihad==Terrorism, by falling for the Baloch issue India will be only drawn into the muck i.e. Terrorism in J&K == India sponsored extremism in Baluchistan
Balochistan is a disputed land now and is now as serious as J&K by all means. Any diversion of resources by Pak fauj to Balochistan will emaciate the shield under which our fellow country men our terrorized by cross border terrorism. The key here is that we are building up pressure points within that nation and they are suffering from internal divisions, exploit them rather than create our internal divisions by calling the leader of our nation names. . . .It is not about which is 'OLDER' but infact about which is more 'SERIOUS' and affects me or you directly J&K or some Balochistan which does not even share a border with us.
Given the appeasement of separatists in J&K I can onlyat such proposals
I don't know About Mehta Sahib but his what-can-be-achieved-today pre-emps what can be achieved in the future.ramana wrote:
SC, Lt gen Ashok Mehta is an India firster and also a realist who supports what can be achieived.
I am saying that Pakistan will use this to further strengthen their stand back home in pakistan that they have proved and india's PM has aggreed that india is involved in balochistan.All this is apart from the spin the pakis will be giving to this back home, there they will say that india got weak kneed when confronted with 'evidence' (Under lungi photo ops) in balochistan and other areas.
It seems you are dissing me when none is needed.4. SO THE WORLD WILL NOW SAY THAT INDIA GOT WEAK-KNEED WHEN CONFRONTED WITH EVIDENCE?![]()
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This is because the media itself has a WKK agenda. There seems to be an unholy amount of 'we should talk onlee' on the air all the time. The media has shown the 'other side of the story' too many times.Rony wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/ne ... x?CatID=10
In this NDTV programme, at the end of the show, the anchor asks the question ' How many people think we should talk to pakistan'. More than half of the hands gets raised for 'Yes'. Even the ultra WKK anchor vikram gets suprised.
Who doesn't f**k up once in a while? But with MMS, his strategy here comes with a precedence. The havana ==. Now tell me what chankiyan advantage did it ever get india?narayanan wrote:Of course, if you want to believe that all this is totally false, and that India is ruled by spineless idiots, and they can't compose a Joint Statement between the lot of them, and that these "typos" got left in there my oversight
Yes and the point being? We have discussed logistics and supply chains in a previous thread by Shiv and the rough conclusions were that while a full scale invasion is not possible but a low intensity situation can be created suitably assisted by Afghan brothers.negi wrote:Munna mian do you know where Balochistan is located ? have you ever thought over the logistical challenges involved in sneaking in a gang of LeT men from across the border in J&K vis a vis India doing the same in Balochistan ?
Both areas have Shia and Sunni denominated demographic areas nearby which can be suitably exploited!Have you taken into consideration of demographics of J&K and the surrounding border vis a vis some one from India and Balochistan and its bearing on such an undercover op ?
For the policy planners to decide not armchair jernails.And what is more easier for a country both economically and politically ? to enforce a trade and commerce embargo or to carry out clan
destine or guerrilla warfare ? What are the stakes involved from TSP side if trade between two countries comes to a standstill ? specially when the former enjoyed the MFN status until last decade ?
Valid viewpoint and a contrarian take on MMS administration but the sudden Paki discomfort is all too stark to ignore.All this GOI support and role in Balochistan revolution is a figment of Chankian imagination .
Needless insinuation best avoided, thanks.Btw only people who might understand and fathom Chankian logic at this hour might be Hamid Gul and Zaid Hamid.
Yes ofcourse you might have done...last I heard US and NATO convoys were being burnt and captured by Talibs and even Coalition forces. A country that twiddled its thumbs andmunna wrote: Yes and the point being? We have discussed logistics and supply chains in a previous thread by Shiv and the rough conclusions were that while a full scale invasion is not possible but a low intensity situation can be created suitably assisted by Afghan brothers.
demographics==religion ? NICE.... can you make out a SHIA or SUNNI by looking at one's face , or hearing him speak ?Both areas have Shia and Sunni denominated demographic areas nearby which can be suitably exploited!
Nice line of argument... it is not about the authority here it is about RIGHT/WRONG ...plain and simple.For the policy planners to decide not armchair jernails.
Why when rest of folks can poke fun atNeedless insinuation best avoided, thanks.
The only person i was remembering when seeing the sikh gentleman was MMS...the only difference between the two was MMS gets to decide the policy of the entire country!!!In the above programme, when the anchor vikram asks a WKK sikh why he is in favour of talking with pakistan, the reply is because his wife met a paki in dubai who spoke in punjabi and he felt both are same people, same culture etc etc ... the usual crap to which the WKK anchor wholeheartedly agrees.
Can't India call for a composite dialogue on Baluchistan problem with Pakistan now? More so since the Balochis have asked for India's help now?ramanna wrote:Anyway whether India wanted to be involved in Balochistan or not the Baloch want India to be involved. And the TSP scored a Chankian mega self goal by making Balochistan a bilateral issue in the joint statement. Now for the Pakiban to ask India to help would be icing on the cake.
Does it get more convenient and naive than this ?Another point, lets assume that this "bad drafting" thing didn't happen and we had a sooper dooper draft which tied Pakistan in all manner of knots. Now I would like to ask the learned members here, would that draft have done any of the following:
Btw someone was phirst in the line eagerly waiting for his Canadian Vijja stamping, does above logik apply for him too ?If the answer is No to each one of the above, then can someone tell me why the sky is falling on MMS and he's being compared with Musharaff - a traitor who needed to run to London for asylum?
Good points. To all those who confer victory for India and Bharat Ratna to MMS; lets turn clock back to Havana. MMS meekly surrendered there too, "we are both victims onlee", and what did that Chankyan move buy India? Mumbay 26/11. Thank you very much. MMS has not only mocked the 1000s and 1000s of Indians who have perished to TSP terror, he has not only betrayed un-suspecting Indians who trusted him with their votes, but also many of the posters here on BR, true patriots who simply cannot accept MMS can sell India out. Sadly they are wrong.Raja Ram wrote:And so the second charge begins on this thread to defend the indefensible sell out. To boldly see what mere mortals cannot see. Original spinster (JSnowji) is here on the thread, that too fresh from his tour of Africa. So let him comment on the amateurish spin attempted here to save the H&D of the glorious leader, modern day chanakya, distinguished economist, oxford scholar, strong sardar PM and his great defeat of Pakistan.
As I keep saying, there is no Indian interest being served by resuming talks. There is no Indian interest being served in rewarding pakistan with a badly drafted Joint Statement. There was no interest being served in meeting with the Pakistani PM in the first place. Some other country's interest was being served.
There was no clamour for talks to resume in India. Neither from the communal bad BJP nor from the peace loving secular parties like CPI(M). Heck, not even from the Gandhiji loving Congress. Then why this act of stupidity?
The PM of India should and act and behave as PM of India, not as a head clerk. Is that too much to ask from an Oxford educated scholar, economist?
Negi,negi wrote: wrote...
amit,amit wrote:Raja Ram,
It's easy for you to righteously say MMS should not have met Gillani. However, countries don't conduct business but sitting at home to show how cross they are. One reason the US and allies engage North Korea.
Nobody is claiming - at least I'm not - that the Jt statement was a great diplomatic coup. It well be a case of MEA dropping the ball.
What I am saying is that such statements matter diddly squat. You just move after a faux pa (if this was one). Yet you read this thread and even highly repected members are acting like it was the biggest foreign policy debacle of this decade.
People who are MMS supporters in general will have opinions like that. That is expected and nothing wrong in that.sanjaychoudhry wrote:Nobody is claiming - at least I'm not - that the Jt statement was a great diplomatic coup. It well be a case of MEA dropping the ball.
What I am saying is that such statements matter diddly squat. You just move after a faux pa (if this was one). Yet you read this thread and even highly repected members are acting like it was the biggest foreign policy debacle of this decade.
Extreme words such as "diplomatic coup," "skies have not fallen," "didly squat," "biggest foriegn policy debacle," "rona dhona" -- these are just tactics to put down an opponent by accusing him of extreme irrational positions. They mean nothing. Why is it so difficult for Indians to admit the obvious?
As such the Baluchistan mention in the Joint Statement could be the simply to get a new wedge into the whole internationalization of Baluchistan issue sponsored by America and Britain with India simply playing along.Recent Activities of Mir Suleiman, Khan of Kalat operating from U.K, holding international rallies and submitting letter to 10, Downing Street projecting forcible annexation of Balochistan by Pakistan?