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When I came to Dilli from Jammu, a truck's tire exploded somewhere near my place. I thought it was a bomb explosion and soiled my dhoti.
Then some people burst crackers in a wedding function, I soiled my dhoti again thinking that some encounter was going on.
Why so much compassion for Kashmiris and none for me ? Aren't we all equal equal. Me being more equal than you dark fascist Yindian Yindoos ?
It is learnt that interlocutors Dileep Padgaonkar, Radha Kumar and M M Ansari have recommended a debate within the state on autonomy, and whether it has seen an erosion after 1952. From the change in the nomenclature of heads of state — Wazir-e-Azam and Sadr-e-Riyasat — to the process of picking a governor and provisions of Article 356 are all set to be thrown open for discussion.
At the same time, the interlocutors will stay clear of the more divisive demands such as trifurcation of the state, abolition of Article 370 (concerning the special status of J&K) and Azadi.
The interlocutors will suggest that just as it expects the state to abjure political and other violence, the Centre must also respect the terms under which Kashmir historically agreed to accede to India, including special treatment to its citizens.
These five areas are:
a) Change in nomenclature of heads of state — from Wazir-e-Azam to Chief Minister, and Sadr-e-Riyasat to Governor. Wazir-e-Azam, incidentally, implies PM; a CM would be referred to as Wazir-e-Aala.
b) The change in the Governor’s nomenclature being decided in Delhi.
c) The state that used to have its own Election Commission
coming under the control of one central EC.
d) Similarly, powers of the Supreme Court and Comptroller and Auditor-General extending to J&K.
e) Article 356 being made applicable in the state.
The team is likely to strongly emphasise protection of human rights, with explicit safeguarding of the peaceful right to protest.
While the team is likely to recommend a unified state, and not call for any administrative redrawing of the state’s map, there will be wide-ranging recommendations making provisions for regional autonomy, and autonomy further down the line in each of the regions.
The report would call for special care and provisions to protect the state’s minorities, including the Bakerwals, Gurjjars, Hindu Pandits, Sikhs and Shias.
One major problem being faced by the committee is their promise to the government not to make any reference to Pakistan. In the absence of meaningful peace initiatives with the neighbour, it fears, its hard work would be undermined.
Eventually, the team would like to recommend making the boundary dividing the two Kashmirs (the Line of Control) irrelevant, a proposal that would need active engagement with Pakistan.
Another problem is the separatists’ decision to stay away from the interlocutors. Any recommendations without them on board would be blighted with the same problems earlier “roadmaps” and reports faced.
jamwal wrote:When I came to Dilli from Jammu, a truck's tire exploded somewhere near my place. I thought it was a bomb explosion and soiled my dhoti.
Then some people burst crackers in a wedding function, I soiled my dhoti again thinking that some encounter was going on.
Why so much compassion for Kashmiris and none for me ? Aren't we all equal equal. Me being more equal than you dark fascist Yindian Yindoos ?
The kind of strawman arguments being put out here are mindnumbing...
i bow in deference to the hard hitting comment from JE Menon
"Why not give them that too? It's a serious question. I'm trying to understand the way you have constructed the "Kashmir issue" in your mind. "
edited out - Please no personal attacks. That sort of personal language does not help BR or BRF. No matter how emotional you may be it does not help to attack someone in that way, especially if he has broken no rules and has argued in a civilised fashion. - JE Menon
Any person booked under the Narcotics Drugs and Psychotropic Substances (NDPS) Act can be released on bail; whereas, the act is non-bailable in any other state. The police are not authorised to act against the chemists under the NDPS Act, for misuse of prescription drugs.
A study by the Sociology Department of Kashmir University reveals that 35 per cent of youth between 15 to 25 years of age have taken to drugs. Sociologist Dr B A Dabla says, “We lost one generation to the gun and we are going to lose the next to drugs.” The number of girls involved is also high, even school girls are addicts, he adds. The solution, explains Dr Dabla, lies in providing solid economic, religious and psychological remedies.
Sources in the peddling business reveal that the valley consumes 6000 bottles of Codeine per day, and out of this Sopore alone consumes over 3,000 bottles. “If you visit the Degree College in Sopore, you will find that 80 per cent of the boys are on Codeine,” say ex-addicts who shared this information with doctors
I think the situation is alarming, there are estimated 70,000 addicts in the valley with a 4mn population and most of them are between 17 and 35!
Boarding the flight to New Delhi for the India today, conclave. Playing the devils advocate here has been quiet informative and helpful (pls dont ban me). Thank you, Brihaspathiji, sachin, J E Menon sir , Munna, and Vikas Raina ji. From what i here from my friends, an army of KP`s are there, thrilled to tear Geelani Apart. He will ultimately, look at the world media and play the martyr`s part, but truth need be told. Thank you, guys. Through a portal like BRF, you guys are giving a clear picture about" what India is and what we want to be in no unclear terms".
Leaving you with a speech by Jagmohan sahib and Arun Shourie Ji, that has helped me a lot and something that should be read by the present day youngsters, http://www.itmilans.org/?p=96, http://www.itmilans.org/?p=93
From what i here from my friends, an army of KP`s are there, thrilled to tear Geelani Apart. He will ultimately, look at the world media and play the martyr`s part, but truth need be told.
Errr, Geelani weaseled out of the India Today conclave few days back.....
menon s wrote:I think the situation is alarming, there are estimated 70,000 addicts in the valley with a 4mn population and most of them are between 17 and 35!
The figure looks good, if these 70,000 can be lodged safely or monitored to ensure that they do not cause trouble. Was'nt this one of the strategy of the Brits, in dealing with parts of China, once upon a time? . 70,000 drug addicts mean 70,000 people who do not have serious work to do, but have plenty of money to buy drugs.
^^^ hoping said in jest. No parallels should be drawn to british colonial exploitation, tactics. We aren't a colonial power occupying/exploiting in J&K. J&K is India. Perhaps more relevant is comparison to northern-ireland.
But admittedly, I've run into problems with analogies too
Playing the devils advocate here has been quiet informative and helpful (pls dont ban me).
Or, perhaps, a rather belated tacit admission from you that you knew all along the effect some of your posts were having on this thread and yet you deliberately and continuously, perhaps, chose to behave like a troll on this thread and, moreover, if such a statement from you now would be enough to overlook your furious attempts for days on end to derail/disrupt a constructive dialogue by others on this thread?
At least have the courage now to give an unconditional apology for your behaviour, instead of coming up with lame explanations (which not many would buy anyway) like 'playing the Devil's advocate here....'.
sir, with all due respects, u guys were in ur own true worlds, i had to shake you, so that you respond to a stranger like me, ajatashatru sir, with all due respects, i have nothing but, respect for you. God bless and sleep tight buddy.
menon s wrote:I think the situation is alarming, there are estimated 70,000 addicts in the valley with a 4mn population and most of them are between 17 and 35!
The figure looks good, if these 70,000 can be lodged safely or monitored to ensure that they do not cause trouble. Was'nt this one of the strategy of the Brits, in dealing with parts of China, once upon a time? . 70,000 drug addicts mean 70,000 people who do not have serious work to do, but have plenty of money to buy drugs.
Sachin sir, is it right! thats sly smile! bad karma will happen to anyone. Smiling when someone is in trouble is not kashatriya dharma.
From what i here from my friends, an army of KP`s are there, thrilled to tear Geelani Apart. He will ultimately, look at the world media and play the martyr`s part, but truth need be told.
Errr, Geelani weaseled out of the India Today conclave few days back.....
ur wrong multiple, sum sir, Geelani is very much there, with sarah Palin, aitihaz hassan, arif mohammed khan, aatish taseer! the composition is wickedly sinful, but, thats the fun. An whole army of Kp`s are there to strip Geelani naked!
Like any budding nation, that lacked self confidence, we were reluctant and pro minority. thats a mistake that i think is natural, but when we bloomed, we are confident to strip the wahabi perfidy from these retards. watch and see.
The Minister of Animal and Sheep Husbandry, Aga Ruhullah, while admitting this fact candidly in the Legislative Assembly, said about Rs 1000 crore is spent annually on the import of mutton, eggs and milk. The Minister said the total livestock population in the State as per the 2007 livestock census is approximately one crore and seven lakh and there are 90 animals per 100 persons in the State as compared to 45 animals at the national level.
So says the new Viceroy of India, Timothy Roemer. This government has conceded far too much space to the US. Slowly, I see that what we used to ridicule Pakistan about is happening here too.
U.S. Ambassador to India Timothy J. Roemer arrived in Jammu and Kashmir on Thursday on a two-day visit during which he is scheduled to meet a cross section of people especially youth.
Mr. Roemer first met Chief Minister Omar Abdullah in Jammu. “In an hour-long meeting they discussed various issues pertaining to the socio-economic and political developments in the State,” an official spokesman said.
“The issues relating to the dialogue process and efforts for restoration of permanent peace and tranquillity in the State were also discussed in the meeting.
“The U.S. Ambassador evinced keen interest in the new initiatives put in place by the Omar-led government for speedy and equitable development in all the regions and sub-regions of the State, and for restoration of permanent peace and political stability in the State,” he said.
A U.S. embassy spokesman in a statement said: “Mr. Roemer is visiting Jammu and Kashmir from March 17-18 to engage and listen to the people and connect with the youth of the State. This is his second visit to Jammu and Kashmir within six months. In September, Ambassador Roemer visited Leh to deliver Rs. 2.3 million-worth of relief supplies to 400 rural families affected by the flash flood.”
The statement quoted Mr. Roemer outlining the objectives of his visit: “I want to engage with the people of Jammu and Kashmir just as I do with the people everywhere else in India. The youth are the leaders of tomorrow who will shape the destiny of the State. I want to talk to them about their hopes and their aspirations for themselves and their community. I do this everywhere I travel – it is part of my job to talk and listen to people from all walks of life in all regions of the country. I talk to people from all backgrounds and ethnic groups, to better understand the environment I work in and to better perform my job as America's Ambassador to India.”
On Friday, Mr. Roemer will interact with students of the Delhi Public School.
“As President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh have said, education is an essential part of the strategic dialogue between the US and India. The cumulative experiences of those Indians and Americans who have had the opportunity to study in the others' country are facilitating this partnership today in every field,” the spokesman said.
^^^Dont see any "ceding" of any space..In fact the Wikileaks tapes, if anything show how key interlocutors resist even the smallest pushbacks from the US...
"Engaging" youth is nothing out-of-ordinary..Indian envoys do the same thing as well...
Roemer is trying to play the same role that Linlithgow did, not that many years ago. Unfortunately, by supporting the separatists over the nationalists, our government is playing a role similar to that of the British.
somnath wrote:^^^Dont see any "ceding" of any space..In fact the Wikileaks tapes, if anything show how key interlocutors resist even the smallest pushbacks from the US...
"Engaging" youth is nothing out-of-ordinary..Indian envoys do the same thing as well...
<Sarcasm> True, Indian envoys routinely meet the Baluchi youths in Pakistan and the
Uighur youths in China facilitated by the Pakistani and Chinese govt. And the Chechins in Russia, the ETA in Spain, and on and on... </Sarcasm>
Last edited by Dipanker on 18 Mar 2011 11:22, edited 1 time in total.
THE FIRST FIELD MARSHAL MANEKSHAW MEMORIAL LECTURE
(Delivered by Lt Gen S K Sinha at the Defence Services Veterans Conclave, New Delhi in August 2008)
Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw is our national icon whom we failed to give an appropriate farewell when he passed away recently. I am glad that the Conclave of Defence Services Veterans have started Field Marshal Manekshaw Memorial lecture series. I feel greatly honoured to be invited to deliver the first lecture. I was privileged to serve under the Field Marshal in various capacities for several decades. I recall that in September 1946 when
the Interim Government had come to power in Delhi and India’s Independence was fast approaching, three Indian officers were posted in three different sections of the Military Operations Directorate of the then General Headquarters (India), which later became our Army Headquarters. Till then this Directorate was manned exclusively by British officers
and British clerks. These three Indians were Lt Col Manekshaw, Major Yahya Khan and myself in the rank of Captain. Later I served under him as instructor first at Mhow and then at Wellington, when he was the Commandant of these training institutions. Thereafter I served as a Brigade Commander when he was the Army Commander and as a Deputy PSO when he was the Army Chief.
The war clouds had gathered in 1971 and I was due to command a Division. He held me back as Deputy PSO on his staff. I told him that the G-1
was going to war with the G-2 and the G-3 should not be left out of battle. He turned down my request saying that he needed me more on his staff. I last met him in 2007 when he was terminally ill on life support system in Wellington Military Hospital. A little earlier at the intervention of the then President, he had received over one crore as arrears of pay of a
Field Marshal for the past 35 years. At last the bureaucracy had relented and given him his due which had been denied to him. We had taken up the case in 1972 when he was promoted Field Marshal. I congratulated him for this. He smiled and told me,”A Babu came from Delhi to give me the cheque which I have sent to my bank, but I am not sure if the cheque will be honoured.”
I have been asked to talk about Jammu and Kashmir which is today, the most burning topic affecting our national security. After Independence, Sam, as Manekshaw was affectionately called, became a Brigadier and took over as Director Military Operations. I was posted as GSO-2 (Operations) in a newly raised skeleton Command Headquarters, which later became Western Command. When I was leaving the Directorate, Sam told me that I had been dealing with internal security for a year and now I was going to a Command
Headquarters which was being raised primarily for internal security in Delhi and Punjab. The Headquarters would be in a railway train operating between Delhi and Lahore. Mountbatten had made the Viceroy’s special corridor train available for this purpose. Little could Sam or I foresee that in a few weeks our Command under the leadership of Lt Gen Sir Dudley Russell, will be fighting a war in Kashmir. For the first few weeks I was the only
Indian officer in the Headquarters, the others being all British. The British Government directed that no British officer then serving with the Indian or the Pakistan Army will be allowed to go to Kashmir. That placed a heavy responsibility on me as I was the only officer from the controlling Headquarters who could visit Kashmir for the first few weeks.
Our Headquarters got Indianised by January 1948 when Lt Gen (later Field Marshal) succeeded Lt Gen Sir Dudley Russell. In October 1947 , Russell had asked me to act as his eyes and years in Kashmir, functioning like Montgomery’s Liaison Officers at El Alamein and after in the Desert during the Second World War. Russell had been a Divisional Commander at El Akamein. I was also given the task of organizing the airlift of some 800
Dakota sorties in civilian aircraft from Safdarjang airport to Srinagar in 15 days. In all this I was closely interacting with Sam, who was the DMO at Army Headquarters. After the first Indo.Pak War in Kashmir, the United Nations held a cease fire conference at Karachi. The Indian delegation was led by General Shrinagesh with the Defence Secretary, Kashmir
Affairs Secretary, Maj Gen Thimayya and Brigadier Manekshaw as members. I was the Secretary of the delegation.
Given our long common association with Kashmir, it is only appropriate that the first Field Marshal Manekshaw Memorial Lecture should be about National Security: The J&K Perspective.
Kashmir has been a major lingering problem for our national security for the past over sixty years. We have fought four wars with Pakistan over Kashmir and emerged winners in each one of them. The violence of the ongoing proxy war has been very substantially contained. When I took over as Governor of the State in 2003, the average rate of daily killing due to terrorist violence was 10. By2008 this came down to a little over one a day.
However, in terms of propaganda and media war, we have been at the losing end. This has been largely due to the appeasement policy of our vote bank politicians towards communal and anti-national elements.
The origin and genesis of the Kashmir problem lies in the Partition of the Sub-Continent on the basis of religion. Pakistan’s stand has been that Kashmir being a Muslim majority State should have been part of that country which had been created as a homeland for Muslims on the Sub-Continent. India which has more Muslims than the total population of Pakistan has been opposed to the concept of religion being the basis for nationhood. No doubt in 1947, the partition of what was then British India, the eleven provinces directly ruled by the British, was carried out on the basis of religion. This did not apply to the 562 States ruled by the Princes. Their rulers had entered into treaty with the British Sovereign and accepted
the latter’s paramouncy. Jinnah wanted that on the withdrawal of the British power from the Sub-Continent and the lapse of paramouncy, the rulers should be allowed to decide the future of their kimgdoms. His hidden agenda was that Hyderabad which was the richest and largest State in India, of the size of France, and which had a Muslim ruler with over 90% Hindus subjects, should opt for Pakistan. He even tried to get the Maharajas of
Jodhpur and Jaisalmer to accede to Pakistan, promising them the world. As for Kashmir, which had 70% Muslim population with a Hindu ruler, he was confident that both geography and demography were favourable for Pakistan and the State would fall like a ripe plum in his lap. In the event, he got neither Hyderabad nor Kashmir. It suited the British to go along with Jinnah’s thinking in this matter.
.........................To be contd........................................
Let’s now consider the security implications of such migration. Pakistan is proceeding steadily as per its strategy chalked out way back in the sixties first as Operation Gibraltar executed by President Ayub Khan and there after Operation Topaz of President Zia-ul-Haq which still continues.
In 1965, I was a young emergency commissioned infantry officer and was deployed as a Company Commander in Nowshara sector. While patrolling with my Company in Pir Padesar gap, I captured one infiltrator who later turned out to be Capt Gulam Hussain of Azad Kashmir Battalion. He was carrying a transistor for communication and a Koran to incite the Muslims of the Valley to rise in revolt in the name of Islam. He did not succeed in his mission.
During interrogation, he appeared totally crestfallen and upset. He wanted to cross back to PoK at the earliest as he could not make the people of Poonch rise in revolt in the name of religion. At that time also the Razakars after crossing the LoC would head for Pir Panjal ranges via Kalakote and Budhal.
I must add here that a Muslim gave the first information about the infiltration of Razakars to the nearest Army formation in Poonch. Operation Gibraltar failed because the people of J&K were totally with India.
Since 1989, Pakistan has been very seriously trying to activate Rajouri and Poonch areas along with the Kashmir valley. It has been reasonably successful in the Kashmir valley in creating secessionist fervour but not so in Rajouri and Poonch because of the ethnic and cultural differences between the people residing in the valley and those of Rajouri and Poonch.
The Pakistani strategy has always been to link the Muslim majority areas of Rajouri and Poonch from Jammu with the Kashmir valley i.e. Poonch-Pir Panjal range — Batote-Doda-Kishtwar-Synthan pass — on to the Kashmir valley. Its more or less as per the Dixon plan. We must not allow Pakistan to succeed.
menon s wrote:Sachin sir, is it right! thats sly smile! bad karma will happen to anyone.
Well my post was in half jest, and I must say it is not a wonderful attitude to have. But reading BRF for 10+ years have made me a cynic when it comes to Kashmiri valley and the people out there. Bad Karma like being a drug addict, is'nt it all brought on one self? As I said earlier no much work to do, have fantasic ideas on living a life on other people's money and looks like they have plenty of that free money as well.
ur wrong multiple, sum sir, Geelani is very much there, with sarah Palin, aitihaz hassan, arif mohammed khan, aatish taseer! the composition is wickedly sinful, but, thats the fun. An whole army of Kp`s are there to strip Geelani naked!
Do report on the 'stripping' part. I would also scan the news papers to see how well this summit is covered, if they plan to give coverage. KPs have started protesting but in previous cases I have read that they were expelled from such venues by force .
There are several threats from the speakers veiled under the guise of laments ...
1. Give up kashmir, or else we make it a communal issue
2. Let us secede, as you are the ones violating art 370
3. Human rights "abuses" in J&K are part of larger class oppression in India (thus bespake the maoist)
4. Hindutva is same as fascism, and we are victims of fascism
... I know these are empty threats and cannot harm us. The only potent threat is 1. I hope this isn't part of a tactic to foment communal trouble in rest of india. There are many who'll jump to that bait.
People like SAS Geelani are so stupid that either they are on the payrolls of RAW (a distinct possibility) or are incredibly naive...The kind of soundbytes he gives destroys the basic and "best" case that the separatists have - of being a non-denominational "freedom" movement, attempted to a certain extent "peacefully"...
If anything, we should be enouraging Mr Geelani to make such comments with greater regularity in all places...And provide some mroe platforms for him...More he presents the Kashmir case as an islamist one, lesser anyone's appetite or sympathy for the same...
Humbug. It may be that this time around the separatists were not met by an US official. But, at least from Robin Raphael's time, we know about frequent meetings with the separatists, even facilitated at times by GoI. As late as Oct 2010, a few weeks before Obama's visit to India, Yaseen Malik was met by US embassy officials.
somnath wrote:People like SAS Geelani are so stupid that either they are on the payrolls of RAW (a distinct possibility)
Right on this page you declared your disbelief in conspiracy theories but soon you spin your own one
So you claim RAW is funding a jehadi who wants a nizam-e-mustafa regime with sharia as the constitution, who is responsible for murder of hundreds and destitution of millions of Indians. Very very believable theory
I hope you didnt start taking codeine too.
somnath wrote:The kind of soundbytes he gives destroys the basic and "best" case that the separatists have - of being a non-denominational "freedom" movement, attempted to a certain extent "peacefully"...
He is speaking his mind, he wants a sharia state, nothing surprising about it. His actions are similar too, attacking non-muslim minorities and finishing them off for a pure islamist state, so that he can be the khalifah to rule it and pass it along after his death to his progeny.
Raghavendra wrote:Right on this page you declared your disbelief in conspiracy theories but soon you spin your own one
So you claim RAW is funding a jehadi who wants a nizam-e-mustafa regime with sharia as the constitution, who is responsible for murder of hundreds and destitution of millions of Indians. Very very believable theory
There is no conspiracy theory here...Geelani's funding by RAW (or any other Indian agency) is a very very plausible theory - any paramil/army officer posted in Srinagar will vouch for that...A RAW aircraft flew him to Mumbai for treatment last year...
Second, Geelani for all his bluster, to use Stalin's immortal lines, "controls no tanks"...His hold over the armed groups is dependent on his favours quotient with the Pak establishment, which ebbs and flows with time...He is on the other hand, and "overground" representative of "azaadi" - someone who gives it the acceptable narrative to the world..His narrative of nizam-e-mustapha (and accession to Pak) is so blatantly out-of-line with the times that it cannot be earning any points with anyone around the world...More he speaks, more support is lost for his cause outside the core islamist element...
Aren't we all equal equal. Me being more equal than you dark fascist Yindian Yindoos ?
. 70,000 drug addicts mean 70,000 people who do not have serious work to do, but have plenty of money to buy drugs.
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