News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 02 May 2011 15:13

^^^

I was watching TV and I can assure you BRfites that in your excitement you have missed the elephant in the room. In the video of the burning compound, when the flashlight goes from right to left, you can see a helicopter landing gear wheel lying on the floor. It is not of Russian make. Compare that to existing photos and you'll figure out what helo it was that went down and was subsequently destroyed.

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 02 May 2011 15:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Gagan wrote:The last time there was a military operation against the pure in Lal Mosque in islamabad, Pakistan is still dealing with the backlash.

Now with OBL himself being killed. This could be absolute disaster in Pakistan.

There will be a severe backlash against the Pakistani army, the ISI, and the Pakistani state.
Pakistan probably will be eager to highlight the fact that they were not informed, so as to get some rehem from the Jihadis.

Pakis have already claimed that it was a joint operation. (To get baksheesh). These government statements will surely be noted by guys in black turbans. Expect some IED mubaraks. Kayani should get the Zia-treatment.

On the other hand, the western media has already reported that only American troops were involved. No baksheesh.

Worst of both worlds.

I like this, and I think we should do PR on this line. Seen Don movie from Amitabh ? Police beleives that he is Don and gangsters beleive tha he is not...we want Pakis in similar situation. Beer and popcorn time.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 02 May 2011 15:15

Chinmayanand wrote:When will Mullah Omar get a bullet in his head ?

My sentiments exactly, just wanted to Hafeez Sayeed, Haqqanis, Maulana Azhar, Dawood to the list.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 02 May 2011 15:17

arunsrinivasan wrote:
Chinmayanand wrote:When will Mullah Omar get a bullet in his head ?
My sentiments exactly, just wanted to Hafeez Sayeed, Haqqanis, Maulana Azhar, Dawood to the list.

GOI's policy in this regard: God will kill them. One day, surely. Let's all live in peace and leave the killing to mahadev. Mission Accomplished!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 15:17

The US will never say that Pakistan protected and hid OBL.

That will mean that they will have to attack and try and destroy the Pakistani ISI.
That means that all cooperation with Pakistan ends.
That means that all the remaining scum, Al Keedas, LET terrorists etc can escape scot free and simply melt away into pakistani badlands.

Keeping pakistan as an ally now means that the clock is back to the day when Amritraj said stone age to mushy. Pakistani generals have done a Browning of the pants, and the US will have a few months of quiet obedience from the pakis, before they resort to their usual haramigiri again.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 May 2011 15:18

NikhilB:

I should probably correct what I wrote. Paki anal-ysts have claimed that it was a joint operation. Paki Govt is saying that it was an American operation. They will have to explain why the American troops are operating in the heart of their country.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 May 2011 15:19

On BBC,

High Commissioner of Pakistan to the UK Mr. Wajid Shamsul Hasan is trying to explain how OBL landed in Abbottabad -

OBL was a gypsy moving around --> came to the area may be a few days ago.
Too little time --> so CIA attacked without informing Pakistanis
Hill station --> hilly area
Checkpoints but area where many people look like OBL
looked for a place not known for terrorism --> so moved to Abbottabad

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 02 May 2011 15:23

sum wrote: ShyamD saar,

What do you predict will happen now with Pak, US and Af-Pak? Is this lose-lose for Pak with Osama and Isloo and Mansion coming in same sentence worldwide?

Honestly, I am not 100% sure. I would analyse this incident to see what is going on. If ISI did indeed give him up then US is going to pull out and focus on the ME/Iran. Lots of pressure on US to take on Iran.

But, lets think about it - look at the location - right next to PMA and in a military city. Perhaps there was some operational difficulties. If I was ISI I would have left him in NWFP to be picked up, which is why this doesnt make any sense. So, I think ISI may not have known and US pulled off a coup to put the pressure on Pak via the media, perhaps letting the truth come out. But that doesnt seem true because Obama in his speech was pandering Pak saying "oh they gave up many lives in terror war bla bla" as a true paki would say.

But I think this is part of the pull out process - Man Obama needs something to show for all the lives they have lost in Afghanistan. So it fits the bigger picture that US is trying to pull out. Now US can be happy and say AQ is defeated, its leader has been taken out.

Not sure what is going on. But whatever it is, Pak is going to have a lot of questions to answer (wTF was he doing in a military city for starters) to its people and to the world in general. Lets see.

Let the info come out.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 May 2011 15:24

singha ji was correct. devgru or ST6 as it used to be called carried out this ops. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/0 ... 56158.html

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 02 May 2011 15:26

Guys, just checking in..but does anyone think that this could have something to do with the US losing its ef-sola deal with us? the timing sure is curious

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 May 2011 15:26

Burkha dutt trying to get the porkis to say that porkis were the first to kick down the gates and nab obl with porki spec ops (what a moronic oxymoron) were part of the strike team. Why is it so difficult to believe that the americans could've done it without letting the porkis know about the whole mission until they were on their way and told the porkis to stfu and stay the heck out of their way!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 15:27

TV feed from Abbottabad shows Pakistani army trucks in the area. They seem to be possibly taking away the crashed Apache gunship on the trucks.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 02 May 2011 15:28

Well, even after bullet-n-da-head and buriyal-at-seas.....FBI still has Usama Bin Laden on its top ten most wanted list....

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten

and hell with burr burr burkha .....who cares what she sq****

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 May 2011 15:31

But, lets think about it - look at the location - right next to PMA and in a military city. Perhaps there was some operational difficulties. If I was ISI I would have left him in NWFP to be picked up, which is why this doesnt make any sense. So, I think ISI may not have known and US pulled off a coup to put the pressure on Pak via the media, perhaps letting the truth come out. But that doesnt seem true because Obama in his speech was pandering Pak saying "oh they gave up many lives in terror war bla bla" as a true paki would say.

This one part of Osama being caught right next to TSPA facilities( only thing worse was being caught inside Kayani's house) negates the chances of this being pre-scripted with ISI help since no way would ISI/TSPA allowed it if a deal had been worked out between Pakis and Amrikis...They would then have followed the ol' Indian "turned up at bus stand and arrested" version which SDREs routinely employ.

Hence, tough to imagine this being anything but solo Amir-khan operation( with no sweetners thrown in for the Pakis).

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 May 2011 15:31

Ejaz haider mazhipifying his answer to a question if this would be a good time for porkis to shut down terror camps in their territory. Man, the level of chutzpah on display is amusing.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 May 2011 15:34

But I think this is part of the pull out process - Man Obama needs something to show for all the lives they have lost in Afghanistan. So it fits the bigger picture that US is trying to pull out. Now US can be happy and say AQ is defeated, its leader has been taken out.

So, where you see the Pakis going in future days? Will they be hammered by all parties, US, Al-Q and TTP in further days or will everything just die out without no further incidents?

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 02 May 2011 15:36

sum wrote:
But, lets think about it - look at the location - right next to PMA and in a military city. Perhaps there was some operational difficulties. If I was ISI I would have left him in NWFP to be picked up, which is why this doesnt make any sense. So, I think ISI may not have known and US pulled off a coup to put the pressure on Pak via the media, perhaps letting the truth come out. But that doesnt seem true because Obama in his speech was pandering Pak saying "oh they gave up many lives in terror war bla bla" as a true paki would say.
This one part of Osama being caught right next to TSPA facilities( only thing worse was being caught inside Kayani's house) negates the chances of this being pre-scripted with ISI help since no way would ISI/TSPA allowed it if a deal had been worked out between Pakis and Amrikis...They would then have followed the ol' Indian "turned up at bus stand and arrested" version which SDREs routinely employ.

Hence, tough to imagine this being anything but solo Amir-khan operation( with no sweetners thrown in for the Pakis).

Yea, this makes sense. It also simply makes sense that the Americans don't trust Pakistan enough to share anything about this beyond, perhaps, telling them they're moving in some helicopters for some regular purpose, and only notifying them of the nature of the strike after it's complete.

When people ask how the helicopters got in unnoticed, they didn't have to. US aircraft move around Pakistan all the time. This group just made a slight detour.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 15:36

Shyamd and others,

My feeling is that:
1. Obama will use OBL's death to the hilt in 2012. In the cacophony everyone will forget that a withdrawal has to take place. The administration will try and hide the fact that they have to withdraw.
The US doesn't want to withdraw. OBL was effectively in retirement.
There are terrorists on the ground, including the LET who are planning a WMD attack on the US. Al Qaida has given out a few fatwas saying that WMD attack is justified as per sharia. There is a history of Al Qaida giving out such warning and following that up with real action.

So nothing is going to change on the ground. Pakistan will continue to be paid off by the US, and GOAT will go on.
2. The only difference will be that the US will now closely hold pakistan's balls, and will keep them half squeezed.
3. There is trouble - big trouble ahead for the Pakistani state, the Pakistani military. The Jihadis will attack both the US and the Pakistani military and government. So in a sense the US and the Pak fauj will gravitate together. I fully expect monetary, military and political support of Pakistan to continue.

I don't agree with what the analysts are saying on TV that Pakistan's day of decision has arrived. No it has not arrived. It will only arrive the day India decides to take them out.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 02 May 2011 15:38

Gaganulla
What would happen if it is revealed that a "Shia" officer in the Pakistan Army had collaborated with Americans in killing OBL? What would be the implications for the Pakistan
Altair

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 May 2011 15:39

Suspicions grow over whether Pakistan aided Osama bin Laden
some of the ostriches are catching on, finally.
_______________

SandeepA wrote:Guys, just checking in..but does anyone think that this could have something to do with the US losing its ef-sola deal with us? the timing sure is curious

does anyone think this could have something to do with the fact that I had chinese yesterday ? this timing is sure curious.

this ops would have been FAR too important for ombaba and co to depend on some aircraft deals, however big. not to mention there is NO rational way to connect the 2 issues.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 02 May 2011 15:40

Guys, Great news. But it will great to analyse the operation itself. Questions in my mind:

1) If US had the information in September 2010 then all the anti pakistan hype created makes sense, when since Septemeber US knew in absolute terms that the Pakis were lying. It would be interesting to see how many formal engagements have happened since them between US Gov and Pakistan Military. I think US gave them rope to hang themseleves quite literally. If this is true USG is going to be very aggressive with Pakis. Under pressure Pakis should deliver other high value target within weaks. If that doesn't happen, then ISI has delivered OBL to US in a deal.

2) The operation itself. Can some shed light on what Heli options do the US SF have and plot the radius of their operational area from Abbotabad and see what airfields lay in there. It's is very high probability that Heli did take off from Pakistan itself. But then how did the special opps team board them. Fooling ATC is no big deal for the US. Could it be that since September 2010, US was quitely interjecting there SPecial forces people one by one into Pakistan under some pretext, and that on D day they just assembled at pre designated area and Heli (empty with few admin type guys) taking off from a Paki airfield, landing at the predesignated area and taking the SF guys to OBL compound?

3) Can a heli have a mid air refueling option?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 02 May 2011 15:42

Sheesh....our news channels. How deferential can they be to India baiting Pakis? Disgusted with the assinine questions. Can anyone tell me of a decent news channel please?

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 02 May 2011 15:42

AoA - Just heard on news that there is some dhamaka in Karachi !

So it's gonna be costly for ISI to claim / not claim the achievement in OBL death... ! So indeed pakis are going to get on both sides ths time - US from rear and homgrowns from front !

Added later - guys hold on - Heard it on Geo Tv..Need to confirm in print media.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 May 2011 15:43

big lizard will be happy to pay a fee for the apache gunship parts . these pieces will disappear into POK and from then into karakoram road. sold for scrap value officially.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 02 May 2011 15:45

Sri

2) The operation itself. Can some shed light on what Heli options do the US SF have and plot the radius of their operational area from Abbotabad and see what airfields lay in there. It's is very high probability that Heli did take off from Pakistan itself. But then how did the special opps team board them. Fooling ATC is no big deal for the US. Could it be that since September 2010, US was quitely interjecting there SPecial forces people one by one into Pakistan under some pretext, and that on D day they just assembled at pre designated area and Heli (empty with few admin type guys) taking off from a Paki airfield, landing at the predesignated area and taking the SF guys to OBL compound?

Very interesting, intriguing line of thought. Add to that, was Raymond Davis, one such type?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 02 May 2011 15:46

Talking of lizards Singhaji.

Yankee Doodle is realising his pet poodle is a girgut!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 15:47

Another snippet from TV news.

The commandos who descended from the helicopters, were speaking in Pashto with the locals who tried to approach the area.

The locals were told to take a hike because there is an attack on in that area.

No description of the commandos as being caucasian or otherwise.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 May 2011 15:47

Yes, Obama had a few words of comfort for Zardari and mentioned Pakistan having lost many lives due to terrorism, but that is only to say, that his fight, or anything that is coming up, is not against the Pakistani people, represented by its civilian government! It is to give comfort to Zardari that America's lightening would not be falling on him, for America does not really consider him personally responsible. In fact America probably knows that he might not have been in the loop at all.

Secondly it may be an attempt to drive a wedge between the civilians and the Army. Obama may be considering taking the help of the civilians and in fact a civilian cover to pursue any actions they may need to take against those USA considers as protectors of Bin Laden - the ISI, the Army, Kiyani!

With OBL's "death" USA is free from Pakistani captivity. Sure Pakistan still controls the land supply routes to Afghanistan, but America is free to redefine their Afghanistan presence and strategy! They are free to draw down the troop levels in Afghanistan now. In fact even if Afghanistan now does not find peace or remains instable, America can still close shop in Afghanistan! So the ace the Pakistanis had in keeping Americans tied down in Afghanistan is gone! Afghanistan is not going to be the grave yard of Americans any more! Afghanistan is not going to be the next superpower the Mujahideen sent packing! Simply because America's top stated goal in Afghanistan is over! America is of course free to consolidate their gains there and to drive the "final nail" into Al Qaeda there! But the point is they don't have to do it and they don't need to be dependent on Pakistan for a final resolution!

So if we see USA making more public statements in favor of Pakistani civilian government or even of the fact that Pakistanis too are victims of terrorism, that is not to be mixed up with USA giving the ISI and Pakistani Army the clean chit! Expect America to be especially aggressive in making demands, more drone attacks, more media articles dissing Pakistani Army.

Basically it is a repeat of Sep 11, 2001 where USA could give Pakistan the ultimatum, either you GUBO or we bomb you back to stone age! Today USA can tell the Pakistani Army the same thing, only this time it would be with a pistol at Kiyani's chest and not with chests full of money for Kiyani!

USA would reaffirm support to Pakistani Govt through financial help, but Pakistani Army and ISI is now game!

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 May 2011 15:47

Sri wrote:Guys, Great news. But it will great to analyse the operation itself. Questions in my mind:

3) Can a heli have a mid air refueling option?

Yep. HH-60 Pave Hawk has that capability.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 02 May 2011 15:49

TV reporting fresh blast in a pakistani mosque. Some people killed.

Edit: Earlier in this thread, i had speculated about the authenticity of this big incident. TV reports that four children of OBL and two wives have been taken into custody. So i put my CT to rest. Though i still think killing OBL was an unwise decision. Maybe the americans didn't want to take another chance given the slip-up that happened at tora bora. Or maybe this was part of the deal unkil made PA - no interrogating OBL.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 May 2011 15:50

delta force hunted down saddam. Seals took out osama. CIA took out khalid sheikh muhammad. the mystique of these forces will remain intact for a while.

its the SAS who covered themselves in inglorious cowdung getting themselves arrested by libyan rebels.

except the tiny kiowa warrior all the other JSOC SOAR birds like MH60 and MH53 have had AAR for decades...usually a C130 does it. they are lavishly equipped with blind nav systems to fly treetop level without any external cues for 100s of km in night or bad weather. and lots of secure comms and self defence kit ofcourse. a SOAR MH53 had led the troop of AH64 gunships through the night to the spot where the iraqi radar compound was destroyed to signal start of ODS (GW1). it dropped a bundle of lightsticks on the desert floor and apparently each apache hovered over it and reset its nav system to what was supposed to be position of that stick relayed from the MH53. not sure why that was needed when GPS was there, but thats what I read in a book.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 02 May 2011 15:54

Read in full, US media is now widely aware of the TSP's double game ....

Bin Laden's Death: What This Means for Pakistan's ISI

When U.S. President Obama called Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari to tell him the news that Osama bin Laden had been killed by U.S. citizens in a lightening raid not far from the Pakistani capital last night, he also instructed his team to similarly inform their Pakistani counterparts. The question is, who was surprised when they picked up the phone?

That bin Laden had been living in a specially constructed compound less than an hours' drive from Pakistani military HQ, and in the same town as the country's premier military academy, makes the near constant denials by Pakistan's intelligence agencies that the terror group leader was in the country difficult to swallow. Sure, there are at times a Keystone-cops element to the operational methods of the agencies—those assigned to trail foreign journalists in the country are less than subtle in their surveillance methods: One once asked me my address, as he was sitting in my house, another decided that quizzing my driver about my activities was far less work than actually following me to interviews—but bumbling or not, they are ubiquitous. The crackle and click of telephone lines is the constant reminder that no conversation over the phone is private, the crew-cut men in beige that materialize whenever I start asking questions proof that one is never quite alone in Pakistan. So the idea that absolutely no one but American intelligence knew who was living in that multi-million dollar compound beggars belief.

Obama was careful to thank Pakistani assistance in the raid, but how, exactly, the Pakistanis assisted will be a key part of understanding the relationship between Pakistan and the U.S. going forward. Just a few weeks ago, U.S. Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Michael Mullen told Pakistani English-language newspaper Dawn that the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) had a “relationship” with the al Qaeda affiliated Haqqani network:

"It's fairly well known that the ISI has a longstanding relationship with the Haqqani network….Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn't happen…..So that's at the core - it's not the only thing -- but that's at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship.”
The Haqqani network is thought to be behind several gruesome attacks on foreign soldiers and embassies in neighboring Afghanistan, including the 2009 attack on the Indian Embassy there that killed 17 and wounded 63. More worryingly is recent evidence that the ISI may have had links to Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group behind the 2008 terror attacks on Mumbai, in which 10 well-trained Pakistani militants coordinated a bombing and shooting attack at several landmarks that killed 164. At a trial slated for May 16th David Headley, the Pakistani American accused of assisting LeT in reconnaissance for the attack, is expected to implicate the ISI, confirming long held suspicions by both American and Indian authorities, as well as many Pakistanis.

Defenders of the ISI say that it is their job to maintain contacts with groups like that as part of their intelligence gathering methods. One spokesman told me that the ISI has infiltrators in the terror groups just like the FBI has people undercover in the Mafia. That may be the case. But either way the ISI isn't going to come out of this well. Either they knew about bin Laden and waited to inform the U.S., or they were oblivious to the presence of a massive, multi-million dollar compound in their back yard, one so secretive that the residents burned their own trash. That doesn't augur well for Pakistan's ability to tackle the next terrorist threat that comes out of the woodwork.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 May 2011 15:55

As ShyamD said, revisit the Af-Pak thread and read the posts on the last page

...

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 15:56

Pakistan hardly has comprehensive radar coverage of its territory.

The radar coverage is even less in the hills that start just north of Islamabad. Islamabad is on the foot hills.

The travel time from islamabad to abbottabad by helo would be like 10-15 minutes max!!!
The place is like 50-60 Kms north of Islamabad.

15 minutes is not enough time to get the message across to OBL in the compound even if the Pakistanis wanted to do so. We have to keep in mind that there was no telephone, or mobile phone in that compound.

Yes helicopters can refuel in air from refuellers like C-130s. Infact black hawks and Sea dragons do refuel that way.
But I hardly think that refueling might have been needed. The distances are well within helo range.
60 Kms to abbotabad, 40 minutes in the air during the operation, and then, 250 kms to jalalabad.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 May 2011 15:57

Operation Enduring Freedom was initiated because it was thought that the Taliban Govt. in Afghanistan played host to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda!

It turns out that Pakistani Army was the host of Osama bin Laden all this time, since then and previously through their proxies in Afghanistan! So what kind of Operation would be called out now against Pakistan!

The most important thing to do now, as shiv saar has been saying, is to repeat it again and again and again, that it was the Pakistani Army who provided safe haven to Osama bin Laden!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 May 2011 15:58

RajeshA wrote:Yes, Obama had a few words of comfort for Zardari and mentioned Pakistan having lost many lives due to terrorism, but that is only to say, that his fight, or anything that is coming up, is not against the Pakistani people, represented by its civilian government! It is to give comfort to Zardari that America's lightening would not be falling on him, for America does not really consider him personally responsible. In fact America probably knows that he might not have been in the loop at all.

It was mentioned in some NYT article that he praised Pakis because Zardari would face protests that Americans are killing people without the knowledge of Paki govt.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 02 May 2011 16:00

Pave-low MH-53s were equipped with inflight-refueling probes, night vision enabled cockpits to enable nvg-aided flying in pitch dark, flying aids for treetop flying at night, 3 gunners and god knows what else. And these MH-53s were retired in 2008. The newer pave-hawks have auto flight controls for treetop flying iirc. At that height, no matter what radars the porkis have, they'll never be able to detect such a heliborne assault.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 02 May 2011 16:04

Actual site:

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 May 2011 16:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ment_Group

from the above appears like seal CT unit, delta force and CIA SOG operate fluidly as one these days, hidden under various harmless official names and roles.

its time to do the much needed reforms and setup our own JSOC and SOAR. even the C130s are here. we can pickup bad guys in nepal, bhutan and bangladesh (all their govts will help us wink wink manner) because dilli is not keen to go into pak. atleast they can keep skills sharp by nabbing a small timer or two

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 May 2011 16:07

Local eyewitness reports:
1. The compound had 12 - 18 foot high walls. And there was barbed wires on top of the wall.
2. The main gate had security cameras. Anyone entering was screened via the cameras, and after confirmation only then they could enter the compound.