India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Part 2

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SaiK
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by gakakkad »

rajanb wrote:err gakakkad. What about the chinis?

We could have gone for replacing the fighter bombers and added more Su30MKI's. Would that be enough against the chinis?
We already have the most technologically advanced airforce in the region. Though probably not the most powerful. The power of the PLAAF lies in its numbers. The only proven proven 4.5 gen they fly is su 27 which is no where near the MKI. Their mainstay is the chinese version of mig 21 . but they have go those in huge number . They have got close to 2000 fighters. The ideal contender for india would be something with decent air 2 air, ground attack capabilities, CAS and the one which can be acquired in large numbers. Had the cost difference between the typhoon and 18 been negligible the decision would unanimously be in favour of typhoon and their would have been no debate.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by UBanerjee »

As they say, quantity is also a quality!

Mass production of LCA and potential AMCA would be ideal. Wester/Roosi fancy toys can be tip of the spear of course.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Rakesh »

gakakkad wrote:The ideal contender for india would be something with decent air 2 air, ground attack capabilities, CAS and the one which can be acquired in large numbers.
You just described the HAL Tejas :) and it will be acquired in the numbers required by Vayu Sena. And as UBanerjee said, "the Wester/Roosi fancy toys can be tip of the spear..." But you definately don't want a bent spear, because everything will fall/fail if the spearhead is not effective/destructive.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cosmo_R »

SaiK wrote:..and what is the target distance are we talking about here wrt the BVR engagement?


---

so, lobby the think tank, and get your objectives met. :twisted:
Exactly and that's the most of it. Who do you think resides in those think tanks? Answer: policy wonks in waiting for the next admin. Tellis will be in the next Republican admin influencing policy. That's why TiE is allowing Brookings to make a pitch for its "India Centers".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/ ... 787204.cms

Content is king no? :)
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Kartik »

Lalmohan wrote:they are waiting for typhoon to go bust and play spoiler with dassault
and at the same time, keep their hand in for the other competitions
They're hedging their bets that when the commercial proposals are opened, the MoF will get a big shock looking at the sticker price. And, that at that point, they will somehow try to convince the IAF and MoD that the Gripen NG is further along development, a cheaper and more affordable solution both upfront as well over the life cycle.

After all, the MoF did scuttle the A-330 MRTT deal over price- and the MoD has not yet benchmarked 4th generation fighters over price so as to set a bench mark price that they will want the Typhoon/Rafale to be around.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Rakesh »

Engine Edge Did Not Help Boeing In Indian Fighter Bid
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=14859
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by ramana »

Not comment by scoot!
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Rakesh »

Am Sorry? :)
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by ramana »

In the above Bill Sweetman article scroll to bottom of page and see the comments by scoot.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

so.. we have MoF scuttling the entire 12 year saga in a snap of the finger. wow!

now, we have to see how much money we have lost in terms of price hike due to 12 year gap, against serious lack of squadron strength and defense preparedness against having skipped (lost experience) a generation of a/cs on account of bureaucracy. you see, the issue with Arjun++, IA would like to stick to no change too fast syndrome?

now, introduce the risk of say, chippanda suddenly announces and video shows to everyone, they have already in production about 124 J20s (for the heck of it), and in 10 years time a dhoti shiver number of 500 J20s.

some statistician can pull numbers here.. to find the a value, on which MoF can say, okay.. proceed... this is too risky to deny further.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Prasad »

Didn't the MOF say that the IAF has to redo its requirements criteria to select candidates which might be economically better suited? This was done for more than one selection iirc.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

Perhaps, we should request chacko ji to goto MoF, and lobby for IAF... do a big press report with all the data, and MoF comes under press-ure! :twisted:
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cain Marko »

Interesting comparison of Rafale Vs. Tiffy for strike ops - Courtesy Toan via Keypubs:
1. The maximal external fuel load of Rafale and Eurofighter today:
* Rafale: 2,000 L tank*3 + 1,250 L tank*2 = 8,500 L
* EF2000: 1,000 L tank*3 = 3,000 L
* Rafale has around 55.4% more internal + external fuel than EF2000.

2. The maximal possibile future external fuel load of Rafale and Eurofighter:
* Rafale: 2,000 L tank*3 + 1,250 L tank*2 + 1,250 L CFT*2 = 11,000 L
* EF2000: 2,000 L tank*2 + 1,000 L tank*1 + 1,500 L CFT*2 = 8,000 L
* Rafale has around 18.4% more internal + external fuel than EF2000.

3. The external fuel load of Rafale and Eurofighter with heavy A2G striking configurations (with two Storm Shadow / Sclap-EG or two 2,000 Ib class A2G weapons) today:
* Rafale: 2,000 L tank*3 + two Scalp-EG --> 6,000 L external fuel.
* EF2000: 1,000 L tank*3 + two heavy A2G weapons --> 3,000 L external fuel.
* Rafale has around 28.4% more internal + external fuel than EF2000.

4. The maximal possible external fuel load of Rafale and Eurofighter with heavy A2G striking configurations (with two Storm Shadow / Sclap-EG or two 2,000 Ib class A2G weapons) in the future:
* Rafale: 2,000 L tank*3 + 1,250 L CFT*2 + two Scalp-EG --> 8,500 L external fuel.
* EF2000: 2,000 L tank*2 + 1,000 L tank*1 + 1,500 L CFT*2 + two Storm Shadow --> 8,000 L
.

As things stand, looks to me like the Rafale has a rather solid edge here (in ammo lugged and endurance) - unless Toan has some wrong info in there. For the near future this bird is more than enough A2A as well - powerful enough to blow past F-16, Su-30, J10 - great delta design allows for rather decent supersonic performance, and LEX+Canards mean v.good slowspeed manouverability. One niggle is the small radar size - but seriously, this is not much of an issue - most times it will be enough to deal with F-16/J10s. when backed by MKI or Phalcons, the radar issue negligible. French were rather smart in designing this bird.

CM
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Singha »

rafale has no equal in its size category in deep strike loadouts. 5 wet pylons + 2 cft is a huge lot of addl fuel. it competes with a higher weight category like the Su30/F15 there...which are 50% bigger airframes.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cain Marko »

Damn! with the kind of fuel load it can carry (4500kg internal) + ~ 6800kg external; it carries more fuel than the MKI! Of course, the MKI can carry 8000kg of munitions over and above the 10000kg of fuel it lugs (all internal too). But seriously, this kind of capability makes the Rafale a really versatile platform.

CM.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Singha »

one thing that would improve it is stealthy weapon canisters to shroud AAMs and the smaller bombs like AASM 500lb/brimstone variety
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Don »

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ntest.html

Saab keeps watch on Indian fighter contest

By Craig Hoyle

Saab has not given up hope of winning the Indian air force's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest, despite having failed to make the service's shortlist when it narrowed the field to two European models early last month.

"We were not selected - at least not yet," said Saab chief executive Håkan Buskhe. Attributing New Delhi's "rather surprising decision" to concerns over the developmental status of his company's Gripen NG, he said "what we can do is give them our explanation if we feel they have misjudged something".

Speaking in London in late May, Buskhe said: "We have a list of things that they have some questions about, and we have been looking at those."

India narrowed its MMRCA contest to the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon, effectively eliminating the Gripen NG, Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16 and RSK MiG-35 from the $10 billion-plus, 126-aircraft deal.

But with extended bids from the remaining contenders valid only until late December, Saab has decided to maintain a presence in support of the campaign in India. "We will wait and see," said Buskhe.

The Saab official also was part of a business delegation that accompanied Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt to Brazil last month. "We have a fair chance to make it," Buskhe said, referring to Saab's campaign to offer the Gripen NG to meet the nation's F-X2 fighter requirement.

"We believe we have an extremely strong offer, with the transfer of technology and co-operation with Brazilian industry." The company again faces competition from the Rafale and Super Hornet, with a decision now expected during 2012.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by shukla »

This article has already been posted and discussed. Please check previous posts before Reposting.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

Q: On the Rf v. Ef weapons load capability, what is the magic Rf did [weight,aerodynamics,etc]?

- contribution of least drag of the inlets compared to a wide open boxed Ef?
- reduced size, hence reduced weight?
- decreased potential of internal stores/LRU improvements [..retractable fuelers, PODs, etc]?
- any other?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by ramana »

Cain Marko wrote:Damn! with the kind of fuel load it can carry (4500kg internal) + ~ 6800kg external; it carries more fuel than the MKI! Of course, the MKI can carry 8000kg of munitions over and above the 10000kg of fuel it lugs (all internal too). But seriously, this kind of capability makes the Rafale a really versatile platform.

CM.

CM, Can the rafale engines be fitted to the MKI?

Thurst, controls, mounting points?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by nachiket »

ramana wrote:
CM, Can the rafale engines be fitted to the MKI?

Thurst, controls, mounting points?
The MKI's AL-31s are bigger and much more powerful than the M-88s (75kn wet thrust vs 125kn wet thrust). The MKI wouldn't even be able to take off with them. But why do you ask saar?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by ramana »

I thought the MKI engines were inefficient. Is there any growth potential for the M-88 engines?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by nachiket »

ramana wrote:I thought the MKI engines were inefficient. Is there any growth potential for the M-88 engines?
Compared to the M-88 and Ej-200 the AL-31F has a higher specific fuel consumption and lower T/W ratio. So yes, it's not as efficient as them. But like I said it is much larger and heavier. It weighs ~1600kg compared to the M-88's ~900kg. It is in a completely different class. And while the new M-88-3/4 versions promise higher power (around 90KN) the MKI can never be re-engined with any current or future versions of the M-88. The engine is too small. Even with the huge AL-31s, the MKI's T/W ratio isn't as great as the Typhoon or F-15. When it is re-engined it'll have to be the Saturn 117S engine which produces about 145KN wet thrust. That is almost twice the thrust produced by the M-88-2.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by ramana »

Thanks, ramana
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cosmo_R »

Singha wrote:one thing that would improve it is stealthy weapon canisters to shroud AAMs and the smaller bombs like AASM 500lb/brimstone variety
That and more munitions in stock (ref Libya) :)
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Lalmohan »

i'm not convinced that iaf needs small pgm's - these are a response to the taxi-rank air strike model that usaf/nato increasingly uses in its operations. the iaf is going to be fighting all out against large military forces - 1000 and 500 lb'ers (paveway) are more likely to be what works for us plus guided missiles for specific missions
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Is there any growth potential for the M-88 engines?
ramana wrote:CM, Can the rafale engines be fitted to the MKI?
There are plans to incorporate the core of the M-88 engine into the Kaveri.

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2009/12/k ... ry-in.html
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cain Marko »

CM, Can the rafale engines be fitted to the MKI?
Ramana garu, as Natchiket points out - why would you do this? The AL-31s are renowned for efficiency and not the other way around. IIRC, the SFC on this engine at mil power is super low (0.67 kgps or something) - even lower than the EJ200, F414, M88. Moreover, this would be v.difficult considering that the size and weight of the M88 is almost 1/2 that of the Al31.

Turning your question around, what I'd really love to see is the IAF M2K upgrade include AL-31 engines instead of the M53s. The result would be a simply unbeatable single engined a/c. Technically, I feel this is more achievable - the M53 weighs just about as much as the AL-31, and size is similar too. But you'd get a single engined a/c with a Typhoonish TWR and since the AL-31s are diametrically opposite of the heavy, guzzling M53s, you'd see an excellent improvement in range on the Mirage, probly supercruise too. The bird would literally become zero to hero!
SaiK wrote:Q: On the Rf v. Ef weapons load capability, what is the magic Rf did [weight,aerodynamics,etc]?

- contribution of least drag of the inlets compared to a wide open boxed Ef?
- reduced size, hence reduced weight?
- decreased potential of internal stores/LRU improvements [..retractable fuelers, PODs, etc]?
- any other?
No magic, just different priorities, and a clearer approach by Dassault/Fra (as compared to the multitude of interests/cooks in the TIffy broth) that makes the Rafale what it is - a small (lighter than the F-16blk60), extremely capable striker, with intentional RCS reduction, and exotic A2A capability.

Aerodynamics wise, they seem similar other than the fact the EF is better tasked for high and fast. but the rafale is probly better at low and slow. So with some tradeoffs but sound design, plenty of composite usage, solid TWR and low wingloading the Rafale is able to carry almost 2 times its empty weight! Just take a look at the M2k, they learnt a lot from that design imho, and it still offers a lot more scope for improvement as stated above.

CM
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Hitesh »

Cain Marko,

the airframe would not be able to absorb the stress of that much thrust. You would have to redesign the airframe to absorb that much thrust.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

I don't believe airframes are designed exactly right for minimum stress tolerance values. There should be some increase in thrust for any a/c, when it comes to upgrade. After all, they would like to sell it as upgrade package and make money there, and in addition sell an entirely set of airframe (pakfa) for newer requirements.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Indranil »

SaiK wrote:Q: On the Rf v. Ef weapons load capability, what is the magic Rf did [weight,aerodynamics,etc]?

- contribution of least drag of the inlets compared to a wide open boxed Ef?
- reduced size, hence reduced weight?
- decreased potential of internal stores/LRU improvements [..retractable fuelers, PODs, etc]?
- any other?
There is no black magic here. Also the I don't see how the EF inlets are more draggy. I haven't read anything to that effect either.

If you take a fully loaded Rafale against a fully loaded EF, then the Rafale will struggle.

EF's designers designed a plane envisioning high speed, high energy when it came to WVR. The most obvious clues to that are the strongly decoupled wing-canard layout along with it's high TWR. This gives the EF agility comparable to the SU-30 MKIs.

Rafale had to excel at slow speed maneuverability. It brings the same to the fore in WVR fights. It's strongly coupled canard gives it's the ability to take sharper turns at lower speed. So in a duel, the Rafale pilot will try to slow down the engagement whereas the EF will try to make it faster. With my very limited knowledge about WVR dogfights, in case of a merge where nobody enjoys the advantage, the ability to slow down proceedings is more handy. I would not discuss it here as it will wind up into a long discussion of scenarios. But my line of reasoning is similar to the proponents of TVC. This probably explains the outcome of the DACT exercises of the Rafale vs EFs where they merged as equals.

But don't expect that Rafale with all the fuel in the world to match up with the EF's in a dogfight. The Rafale can do a lot of things, but can't beat the 17th century rules set by that English bloke who preferred to think about apples rather than eat them.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Rakesh »

indranilroy: OT but isn't that the same case with the MiG-29 (which excels in slow speed maneuverability) while with the F-Solah the opposite holds true?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by SaiK »

Cain Marko wrote:INteresting work on Tiffy vs. Rafale Kinematics:

http://www.2shared.com/document/AsllGC_ ... phoon.html

I guess, Tiffy is slightly better @ higher altitude and high speed. Good for BVR. Rafale has the edge the slower and lower it gets. Of course this can turn around if the TIffy gets TVC or the Rafale gets the M88.3s/Kaveri.

CM.
I can't open this link now from where I am posting.. so,

I think I read, Ef fared poor/turn rate/thrust over the seas! why?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Viv S »

indranilroy wrote:I would not discuss it here as it will wind up into a long discussion of scenarios. But my line of reasoning is similar to the proponents of TVC. This probably explains the outcome of the DACT exercises of the Rafale vs EFs where they merged as equals.
The higher the merge the more comfortable the EF pilot will be.


Besting the Rafale

Speaking of the Eurofighters close-in combat prowess, Major Marc Grüne, CO of 742 (Zapata), the second squadron of the wing, described to assembled aviation journalists how, on a recent visit to France to demo the aircraft, he had won ‘two out of two’ battles against the Dassault Rafale in mock withinvisual range dogfights. Both fights were a ‘standard set-up’ and merge at 21,000ft and 30,000ft he recounted, adding that the “higher the fight the better the Eurofighter liked it”. He singled out the Eurofighter’s excess power as its trump card over the Rafale in this admittedly ‘controlled’ test but did concede that the Rafale’s EW systems would be highly effective in a real conflict situation. He also noted that the Rafale was able to keep control at lower speeds — due to the ‘automatic’ pull-out and recovery system that the Eurofighter is equipped with and which takes control away from the pilot if it thinks a departure or stall is imminent.


http://www.raes.org.uk/pdfs/AI_0811.pdf


Both fights were above 20,000 feet. That's certainly one thing the much touted Air & Cosmos article got completely wrong - they claimed a fight below 10,000 feet was tailor-made for the Eurofighter since the air pressure was sufficient to properly exploit the EJ-200s, while its the excess power at high altitudes (where other fighters are closer to stalling) which is the real selling point.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Indranil »

Rakesh wrote:indranilroy: OT but isn't that the same case with the MiG-29 (which excels in slow speed maneuverability) while with the F-Solah the opposite holds true?
what is same? Mig-29 was a high fab high speed fighter. I have had the good fortune to speak to very experienced F-16 and Mig-29 pilots. They both have the utmost respect of each other, to the point of reverence. But like most pilots each of them said that they could have got the other one. F-16s biggest asset was it's higher range and the Mig-29 had frightening hose pointing ability. In case of the F-16 vs Mig-29 the Mig-29 would love to get done as soon as possible, whereas the F-16 would like to prolong the engagement. Paging Kartik, do you still have that wonderful article you had sent me about the F-16 vs Mig-29?

Infact in most of what I have read so far, I have always read things like: for want of training, for want of a gun, for want of more fuel, for want of higher ceiling as the reasons of the outcomes of aerial combats. I am yet to hear about: for want of a better missile or off-boresight capability etc. On the other hand one can easily say, "Nil, show me an example where modern planes have gone against each other". I frankly don't want to draw conclusions based on DACTs. They just have so many regulations. How does one judge?
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Indranil »

Viv S wrote: The higher the merge the more comfortable the EF pilot will be.

Both fights were above 20,000 feet. That's certainly one thing the much touted Air & Cosmos article got completely wrong - they claimed a fight below 10,000 feet was tailor-made for the Eurofighter since the air pressure was sufficient to properly exploit the EJ-200s, while its the excess power at high altitudes (where other fighters are closer to stalling) which is the real selling point.
Actually this makes sense. I had problems understanding the reasoning in the Air and Cosmos article.
Viv S wrote: He also noted that the Rafale was able to keep control at lower speeds — due to the ‘automatic’ pull-out and recovery system that the Eurofighter is equipped with and which takes control away from the pilot if it thinks a departure or stall is imminent.[/i]
This is the first time that I have heard this for the EF. However I have read similar things about the F-16 (Block-30 onwards).
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Cain Marko »

Hitesh wrote:Cain Marko,

the airframe would not be able to absorb the stress of that much thrust. You would have to redesign the airframe to absorb that much thrust.
Some changes would probly be needed - perhaps increasing the size of intakes, possibly strengthening certain structures, but I think it could be done without too much difficulty (not that I have done a feasability study, but the M2k was anyways primed to get the M53 PX, which I recall was certainly more powerful than the regular M53 by about to 2 tons). The increase in thrust is about 25% more. Look at the F-16 MLU or even the Shornet-UltraHornet plan.

But who knows, you may have a point

CM.
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by arthuro »

>> Air&Cosmos reports on rafale upgrades (current and future) :

SENSORS :

RBE2 AESA : azimut is now 70° instead of 60° previously and range is increased by more than 40%. Further range increase has been demonstrated for UAE needs by increasing the power output from 9,6kW to 14kW. The only thing necessary is to change the Coolanol pomp for a new one in order to cope with the increase heating.

For the beginning the modes for the AESA radar are the same as the F3 standard but additional modes will be added in the close future (GMTT/GMTI).

For the 5th batch side arrays should be added to increase the azimuth coverage to more than 120°

DDM-NG :

The new DDM-NG is a substantial upgrade and can support directional countermeasures. Coverage is increased with new fish eyes optics.

OSF-IT & NG

A new generation IR channel is being contemplated and will probably be integrated at a latter stage.

AEROS-POD :

The recce pod will be upgraded to allow in flight target extraction to allow an a quick response strike. It will be fully integrated in the rafale MMI.

DAMOCLES XF

The new TV channel is currently being tested and will enter in service in 2015-2016.

WEAPONS

METEOR :

integration tests are continuing with first separation tests in 2012. It will be operational in 2018 with the French Air force but it could be operational as soon as 2016 if a customer requires it.

AASM-IR :

They will be upgraded with an anti-tank function/algorithms to allow more effective long range simultaneous tank strikes.

GBU-24 :

It will be operational this year with the AdA and test with the rafale M will begin soon to be operational with navy in 2012.

Contained effect weapon :

That's the hot topic for the french MoD at the moment and currently mobilize a significant number of people. Option are :

-Brimstone
-Laser guided rockets
-125Kg AASM
-Scalpel bomb

Scoop : a New Franco-British AtA missile in replacement of Mica-IR an ASRAM is well on track at a discussion level between the two MOD.

ENGINES :

The new improved M884-E will have an increase of 40% to 50% of its life span. Tests (in flight and ground based) are almost complete.

M88-9 for UAE will have an inflow increase from 65kg/s to 72Kg/s compression rate will be increased at 27.


PROGRAME MILLSTONES :

-rafale M02 prototype will be fully upgraded to the F3+ variant to validate this config for naval ops.

-First F3+ rafale will be the C137 and will be delivered during summer 2012 for operational testing to the CEAM. After a full operational campaign the first rafale F3+ delivered to the AdA will occur mid-2013.

-For the 4th batch it is 25 rafale C, 25 rafale B and 10 rafale M.



DEDIRA (DEmonstrateur de DIscrétion RAfale), FRENCH STEALTH RAFALE PROJECT.

DEDIRA is now the official name of the global project to reduce rafale radar signature which contain passive and active solutions.

The features that are very likely to be integrated to reduce further rafale radar signature are :

-Improved air intake design
-New generation RAM
-Stealth Cocoon and hard point to hide weapons
-GaN spectra (already in development since 2009 under the INCAS project (INsert CApability Spectra)
-Other features kept secret by the french Mod
Indranil
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Re: India selects Typhoon & Rafale for MMRCA shortlist - Par

Post by Indranil »

arthuro wrote: -Stealth Cocoon and hard point to hide weapons
I have always wondered why this is not used to lower the signature. I had this question many moons back (before the F-18 global roadmap pictures came out). Good that the Rafale is coming out with it. I am guessing that the cocoon will also produce lift so as to decrease the wing loading. Let's see if that is the case.
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