India-US Strategic News and Discussion

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 12 Dec 2011 10:19

From the BBC:
US military's first Hindu chaplain
Here's to Captain Pratima Dharm.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Dec 2011 10:36

ArmenT wrote:From the BBC:
US military's first Hindu chaplain
Here's to Captain Pratima Dharm.

Very positive in also educating other folks in the US army about the teachings of Hinduism which need not necessarily be religious in nature (like the specific part of Gita she mentions).

In this aspect I think the US military has much to learn from the Indian Army which has integrated soldiers of all faiths in such a unique manner.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Dec 2011 10:58

^^^ You speak like a westerner - integrated all faiths

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2011 11:03

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 12 Dec 2011 11:09

^^^ I meant it in the nicest way

What I meant was that the integration of the Indian defense forces is driven by the blurred lines of indic civilization. The majority believes in the recognition of many paths.
US defense has typically been very christian crusader types.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Dec 2011 11:31

In case of the Indian military, the integration has been ensured on an organizational level - there is nothing Indic or non-Indic about it. It is excellent man management which plays a big role in ensuring camaraderie amongst ranks while imbibing tolerance and respect in them for others (both within the organization and outside it). This is something which can be learned and applied by other countries' armed forces especially the US military which has shown itself as not being very tolerant of other faiths and cultures. That is what I am referring to.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2011 14:44

And here's how Uncle Sam will; look after your remains when you die in action for the US of A!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74456.html

US air force used secret landfill site to bury soldiers
Frozen arm of dead marine was taken off with hacksaw so his body would fit into his coffin

The United States Air Force secretly used a landfill site to dispose of the incinerated remains of hundreds of troops killed in action during the War on Terror, it has been revealed.

Figures made public yesterday show that partial remains of 274 fallen men and women were sent to a site in King George county, Virginia, between 2004 and 2008. Their families, who had given permission for the remains to be disposed of in a "dignified" manner, were never told of the practice.

The scale of the scandal, in The Washington Post a month ago, is far larger than previously thought. In addition to 976 identified body fragments, Pentagon records show that a further 1,762 unidentified battlefield remains, too badly damaged to be subjected to DNA analysis, also ended up in the landfill.

Officials say they have no plans to contact families of the troops to inform them of the fate of their loved ones. They say that establishing the identities of the affected men and women would be too expensive and time-consuming.

A letter from the Pentagon to Rush Holt, a Democratic congressman investigating the affair for a constituent whose husband was killed in Iraq, argues that determining whose remains went to landfill, "would require a massive effort" and involve examining the records of roughly 6,300 troops.

"What the hell?" Mr Holt responded in the Post. "We spent millions, tens of millions, to find any trace of soldiers killed, and they're concerned about a 'massive' effort to go back and pull out the files and find out how many soldiers were disrespected this way? They just don't want to ask questions or look very hard."A month ago, federal investigators published a highly critical report uncovering "gross mismanagement" of the morgue at Dover air base, the main port of entry for the bodies of fallen American soldiers returning to the US.

It found that body parts were left in freezers for months or even years. In one incident, the disfigured arm of a dead marine was removed with a hacksaw, without permission from his parents, so that he could fit into a coffin.

Whistleblowers who tried to bring attention to shoddy practices at the morgue were ignored or threatened with dismissal. The "pattern of failure" identified in the report extended to body parts of individual soldiers falling out of plastic bags, and getting mixed in with the remains of others. In a letter to a war widow uncovered by the Post, the mortuary director Trevor Dean said the practice had been common since at least 1996, when he started there.

That the scandal never came to public attention sooner is perhaps a natural by-product of efforts by successive Presidents to keep Dover air base from public scrutiny. During the first Gulf War, George HW Bush banned news coverage of the return of fallen troops there. The ban was continued by his son during the second Gulf War, and lifted by the Obama administration in 2009.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 13 Dec 2011 01:26

^^^ This is almost like what Pakistan does to it's soldiers - denies their existance

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 13 Dec 2011 12:32

India trip reaps $60M in investments for US state of Maryland

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Dec 2011 02:34

It's actually worse.Barring the Kargil fiasco,where it served the purpose to confuse everyone about the 'intruders",thus lowering our guard and initial assessment of the scale of intrusion/invasion,fallen Paki "shaheeds" are given a grand send-off in typical martial tradition.It is the attitude of western countries which is by comparison appalling.The US simply covers up their bodies with dirt,with no publicity at all so that the US public is kept in the dark about the true state of its wars and the huge human cost it has to pay,which if known to the US public,would make it question the wisdom of such warring which really benefits US MNCs and defence contractors.

The British-not the public though,who at Wooton Basset ,saluted their fallen countrymen in splendid style,with each arrival of the fallen with a public motorcade and the village in full attendence.The number of casualties so publicly seen on telly with every new flight that arrived at the nearby local base,has made the govt. shift the arrival of casualties to another air base to avoid such public displays of honouring the dead .UK media had some appalling pics of the deplorable housing conditions in which serving soldiers and their families were made to live in,which looked like slums.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 14 Dec 2011 06:26

Philip wrote:And here's how Uncle Sam will; look after your remains when you die in action for the US of A!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74456.html

US air force used secret landfill site to bury soldiers
Frozen arm of dead marine was taken off with hacksaw so his body would fit into his coffin

I would like some real investigation into this instead of "recently released documents" several decades hence when the memory of this is wiped out. I know people don't like me saying this, but while individual Americans are not, institutionally US is a racist country. To this end, I'd like to see how many of these marines were disposable blacks and Hispanics and other kids of color dying for US under the promise of a green card, and how many were precious all American white boys. Usually, US is very sensitive and deeply respectful of the precious ones, and I for one would be shocked if more than a token percentage of those who suffered this ignominy were precious. In fact, a real investigation might reveal that it was because of the sentiments of the kith & kin of the precious ones, that this tragedy even come to light.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 14 Dec 2011 06:33

CRamS wrote:
Philip wrote:And here's how Uncle Sam will; look after your remains when you die in action for the US of A!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74456.html

US air force used secret landfill site to bury soldiers
Frozen arm of dead marine was taken off with hacksaw so his body would fit into his coffin

I would like some real investigation into this instead of "recently released documents" several decades hence when the memory of this is wiped out. I know people don't like me saying this, but while individual Americans are not, institutionally US is a racist country. To this end, I'd like to see how many of these marines were disposable blacks and Hispanics and other kids of color dying for US under the promise of a green card, and how many were precious all American white boys. Usually, US is very sensitive and deeply respectful of the precious ones, and I for one would be shocked if more than a token percentage of those who suffered this ignominy were precious. In fact, a real investigation might reveal that it was because of the sentiments of the kith & kin of the precious ones, that this tragedy even come to light.

Institutionally, the Indian lefties are far more anti Hindus and Anti Indic than Americans are racist. India as an Institution is methodically cleansing the Indian culture in India by working with evangelical NGOs, while America is including the Indic culture as part of its fabric.

I'd rather depend on the Americans to help defend the Indic culture one day than the far lefty Indians of India.

One day, Indian religious Hindus would be driven out of India and would be wandering around like the Jews without a homeland and it would most likely the Americans who would give a helping hand to these Hindus. Not the Anti Hindu "Sick"ulraists. India without the Indic culture would end up like the largest Haiti of Asia.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Dec 2011 06:42

Manny, your post has an esteemed position to occupy in the Deracination thread.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 14 Dec 2011 06:50

Factually where am I wrong? Am I being unreasonable with my opinion on how I see the present day India? That's exactly how I feel about what is going on in India. And I am sure I am not alone.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Dec 2011 08:51

what you say will not come to pass. if it does, nobody will give us shelter, least of all the US. the pagan will not be deserving of such sympathy.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 14 Dec 2011 14:08

US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war

Despite its intense animosity towards India during the 1971 war, the US promised New Delhi "all out" support in case China carried out any unprovoked attack on India, recently declassified documents reveal 40 years after the historic war that created Bangladesh.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Dec 2011 14:21

kumarn wrote:US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war

Despite its intense animosity towards India during the 1971 war, the US promised New Delhi "all out" support in case China carried out any unprovoked attack on India, recently declassified documents reveal 40 years after the historic war that created Bangladesh.

Wow, duplee-city is aptly named.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Dec 2011 15:28

kumarn wrote:US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war

Despite its intense animosity towards India during the 1971 war, the US promised New Delhi "all out" support in case China carried out any unprovoked attack on India, recently declassified documents reveal 40 years after the historic war that created Bangladesh.

What does USA lose for such promises?
Notice how USA also supported India with post-war in 62 aid but bluffed through the war.
per The strange case of the air force in wartime

Even this pales, however, compared with the crowning irony that, all the while the Americans were advising us not to use air power, the CIA knew that the Chinese were in no position to launch any air operations from their bases in Tibet. No air base had a runway long enough, and the Chinese were woefully short of aviation fuel and other essential supplies. Moreover, the Chinese fighter aircraft were concentrated on their eastern coast. They had received a categorical assurance from the US that it “would not unleash Taiwan against them” (Henry Kissinger’s words) yet they wanted to take no chances.

If China had lost in '62, USA could have made the most of Taiwan.

Perhaps watching who wins, at the same time being in good books of both.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 14 Dec 2011 16:28

I had a tubelight moment reading the above news. I always thought that the Anglos-Saxons were inimical to us because they think we could be a competitor in the long term. So, they wanted us to be beaten by the Chinese and the pakis, once in a while to keep us in place.

I think there could be another reason for that, which is the exact opposite of the above. I think they think of us as coolies and nothing more. They want us to be beaten badly by the chinese or the pakis, so that we remain in perpetual fear and run to the AS overlords for protection. Then they can use our vast human and natural resources and our land (bang in the center of the Indian Ocean region) to continue their world dominance for another few centuries. India allied in a subordinate position is the long term aim for these rascalas.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 14 Dec 2011 19:20

Inherently, the top western thinkers know that long term, an awakened India is much more of a threat than China, because India is a true competitor in the space of civilizational memes. Indians have mastered the art of navigating in western memes without losing touch with their own culture. This means that we can pose a threat to western culture/system on THEIR OWN TERMS, without becoming western. By contrast, Chinese love to jettison their culture to fit into western society. And the less said about Islam/Arab civilization's ability to fight in the realm of ideas, the better.

If their is any civilization that can create a world on non western ideals, it is us. And the westerns know this unconciously.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Dec 2011 19:29

abhischekcc ji,

Agree with you completely. However we need to impress on the West that that is a welcome development and not some sign of their demise.

The debate and dialogue is best between two great ideas, which enriches both.

I'll be getting Rajiv Malhotra's "Being Different" over the holidays. I am looking forward to reading it.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Dec 2011 21:23

Indians have mastered the art of navigating in western memes without losing touch with their own culture. This means that we can pose a threat to western culture/system on THEIR OWN TERMS, without becoming western.

I am completely in disagreement there. So called Western development is rooted in the Renaissance or the enlightenment period. The roots of Modern Civilization as in the West it's liberal ethos which India resonates with ease are born from that era. The enlightenment period was given a major boost after scores of translations of Indian texts and doctrines was carried out and the major Philosophers in the Europe poured over Upanishads, BG, Panini and so on. Read Voltaire, Schopenhauer and major enlightenment philosophers and how they openly credit India with their Renaissance. It's not a surprise that India takes to the liberal, pluralist ethos easily while for the West it was a hard fought affair. If Western thought comes closer to the Dharmic approach we should be welcoming that than considering it some civilizational challenge.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 14 Dec 2011 22:22

Jarita wrote:^^^ You speak like a westerner - integrated all faiths

Or he could be a Data Integrator Professional simply using his professional vocabulary to make his point

What does 'integration' has to do with westerner? Ever think about it that way?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 14 Dec 2011 22:39

Harbans, one must ask why is it that Western Europe as opposed to Christian, Eastern Europe is both wealthy and demonstrates liberalism.

What is unique about the historical experience of Western Europe?

Eastern Europeans are painfully conscious of this schism. In the new world hierarchy, they are being relegated to a position below Asians. Only Asians besotted with the pallid westerner cannot accept this as yet.

Contact with India particularly and Asia generally enriched Western Europe materially (their god permitted destruction and looting as well as trade in non-Christian humans).

And yes Thoreau, Schopenhauer, Goethe were all familiar with the Upanishads, Goethe even praising Kalidasa. India has historically enriched the West, from Roman times to the transmission of mathematics, phonetics, grammar, metalurgy medicine.

It is Christianity that has prevented the full acknowledgement of this debt.

The thinking classes of Europe are fully alive to what Christianity has wrought-they may not care about some emaciated, swarthy colonised Indians but they are keenly aware of the sins of the Germans who were convinced that Got mit uns.

There are several theses in these lines of thought but I am glad someone else is thinking along these lines.

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 14 Dec 2011 22:41

CRamS wrote:
Philip wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 74456.html
but while individual Americans are not, institutionally US is a racist country. To this end, I'd like to see how many of these marines were disposable blacks and Hispanics and other kids of color dying for US under the promise of a green card, and how many were precious all American white boys. Usually, US is very sensitive and deeply respectful of the precious ones, and I for one would be shocked if more than a token percentage of those who suffered this ignominy were precious. In fact, a real investigation might reveal that it was because of the sentiments of the kith & kin of the precious ones, that this tragedy even come to light.

It is a valid theory. Institutionally even India is a Racist country

Common now. How can we forget our problems with Backward and Scheduled Caste in and out of Politics? However your point might hold value upto certain degree if you wish to make it a racist one with demographics about Hispanics, African American etc serving the Military. If Institutionally US is a racist then why was Obama elected as POTUS ?

Under special circumstances and requirements, illegals can be hired by the Military.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/15 ... wanted=all
I can only think of reasons where the decision to bury the fallen soldiers was the act/decision of a small group of DOD decision makers. Certainly DNA tests can be performed on remains of soldiers blown to pieces and respectfully returned to the family of the fallen (unless until if they were illegals with no family traceability?

)

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 14 Dec 2011 22:50

kumarn wrote:I had a tubelight moment reading the above news. I always thought that the Anglos-Saxons were inimical to us because they think we could be a competitor in the long term. So, they wanted us to be beaten by the Chinese and the pakis, once in a while to keep us in place.

I think they think of us as coolies and nothing more. They want us to be beaten badly by the chinese or the pakis, so that we remain in perpetual fear and run to the AS overlords for protection. Then they can use our vast human and natural resources and our land (bang in the center of the Indian Ocean region) to continue their world dominance for another few centuries. India allied in a subordinate position is the long term aim for these rascalas.

Moral is simple. Two Cats and a Monkey (Doe billi ke beech mei bunder). One should really think about the history as per how many times and why India has been invaded in the past?

Answer is 'Lack of Unity'

Despite a vast rich cultural heritage, how did we manage to let other civilizations screw us royally and exploit the region? You see we still have the same issue as we did thousands of years ago. We're still not as united (politically and regional) as we should be. If the trend continues, do not be surprised if all the maamas and chachaas of the world be drooling at bharat maata to exploit her resources. The rest of it is all a Grand Chess Game...only more modernized

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Dec 2011 23:08

kumarn wrote:I had a tubelight moment reading the above news. I always thought that the Anglos-Saxons were inimical to us because they think we could be a competitor in the long term. So, they wanted us to be beaten by the Chinese and the pakis, once in a while to keep us in place.

I think there could be another reason for that, which is the exact opposite of the above. I think they think of us as coolies and nothing more. They want us to be beaten badly by the chinese or the pakis, so that we remain in perpetual fear and run to the AS overlords for protection. Then they can use our vast human and natural resources and our land (bang in the center of the Indian Ocean region) to continue their world dominance for another few centuries. India allied in a subordinate position is the long term aim for these rascalas.

They always look at any event as an opportunity to further their interest

Warring large asian states are great opportunity for them. By creating more confusion within leadership and people they can keep this conflict for long time - more than 50 years.

THey found that India and Indian public is susceptible to confusion and dis information. They took maximum advantage of this and thei envoy working with JLN made sure that there is least damage to PRC and MAo. They protected Mao from great air battle and defeat.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Dec 2011 23:39

Contact with India particularly and Asia generally enriched Western Europe materially (their god permitted destruction and looting as well as trade in non-Christian humans).

And yes Thoreau, Schopenhauer, Goethe were all familiar with the Upanishads, Goethe even praising Kalidasa. India has historically enriched the West, from Roman times to the transmission of mathematics, phonetics, grammar, metalurgy medicine.

Absolutely right. Those who are unaware of that fact regurgitate the fact that Western civilization is a construct of Christian thought. Not all. The difference you mark out Eastern and Western Europe is precisely the difference between those that imbibed Indian thought. Modern Western liberal and pluralist thought is Indian in origin.

I have a close friend from Haryana and he related something in a close conversation. His family side some are quite opposed to 'Westernism' creeping in. Yet there in those family circles/ Samaj it's cool to talk about Shoor, Shaurat, Tameez, Tehzeeb, village women were in veils till at least a generation back..or rooted in a Victorian morality. The West was being seen through that cultural prism, that was less Indic and more Islamic and Victorian. A lot of Anti-American and Western thought processes are a result of viewing things through that prism.

We wonder why Indians take to democracy, pluralism, liberalism so easily and ironically don't shed a single thought how we came to be what we are. The results of our Dharmic thought and the anti theses that we hold in some minority that view things from the perspective of Islamic and Victorian morality till this day. THings will only fit in once that perspective is clearer. Else we will be having a large constituency indulging in knee jerk anti-Westernism/ Modernism.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Dec 2011 00:30

harbans wrote:
Indians have mastered the art of navigating in western memes without losing touch with their own culture. This means that we can pose a threat to western culture/system on THEIR OWN TERMS, without becoming western.
I am completely in disagreement there. So called Western development is rooted in the Renaissance or the enlightenment period. The roots of Modern Civilization as in the West it's liberal ethos which India resonates with ease are born from that era. The enlightenment period was given a major boost after scores of translations of Indian texts and doctrines was carried out and the major Philosophers in the Europe poured over Upanishads, BG, Panini and so on. Read Voltaire, Schopenhauer and major enlightenment philosophers and how they openly credit India with their Renaissance. It's not a surprise that India takes to the liberal, pluralist ethos easily while for the West it was a hard fought affair. If Western thought comes closer to the Dharmic approach we should be welcoming that than considering it some civilizational challenge.

"In conclusion, I want to say this: There are two separate but inter-dependent threats to dharma's survival. The first is for what I coined the term Hinduphobia (Doniger, etc stuff). The second is for what I have coined the term digestion. My focus henceforth will be on the second, for it is far more insidious because most of our gurus and lay persons are rejoicing that we have "arrived on the world stage". That arrival is great, but is it arrival as ourselves, or as parts being disassembled and digested into the DNA of the west? This is what most people here do not yet understand. hence the celebration over Lisa Miller, Phil Goldberg's book and many others.

The critical breakthrough required is supplied by BD - to understand what is not compatible and hence choices is forced. You cannot be a history-centric Judeo-Christian and "also" practice dharma without being a digesting party. "

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RajivMalh ... ssage/1789

Rajiv wrote this while replying to Phil Goldberg of "American Veda" fame.

"None of this means that your work is intentionally "dangerous" - but its incompleteness in appreciating the process at work causes people to celebrate the digestion as a sort of merger of equals which it is not. The tiger digesting the deer remains the tiger, in fact stronger, but the deer turns into a pile of shit. This has happened to many civilizations that were also similarly "assimilated" into Christianity and the west - but they now live in museums..."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RajivMalh ... ssage/1781

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 15 Dec 2011 02:08

"I always thought that the Anglos-Saxons were inimical to us because they think we could be a competitor in the long term. So, they wanted us to be beaten by the Chinese and the pakis, once in a while to keep us in place.

I think there could be another reason for that, which is the exact opposite of the above. I think they think of us as coolies and nothing more. They want us to be beaten badly by the chinese or the pakis, so that we remain in perpetual fear and run to the AS overlords "

Either way, pretty awful attitudes by the AS! It would be distressing to think that the AS don't consider a 3rd option- growing *with* India, and sharing the good values of both cultures, thus enriching both. Rajesh alluded to this last week in another thread.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Dec 2011 04:03

Sushupti wrote:
I am completely in disagreement there. So called Western development is rooted in the Renaissance or the enlightenment period. The roots of Modern Civilization as in the West it's liberal ethos which India resonates with ease are born from that era. The enlightenment period was given a major boost after scores of translations of Indian texts and doctrines was carried out and the major Philosophers in the Europe poured over Upanishads, BG, Panini and so on. Read Voltaire, Schopenhauer and major enlightenment philosophers and how they openly credit India with their Renaissance. It's not a surprise that India takes to the liberal, pluralist ethos easily while for the West it was a hard fought affair. If Western thought comes closer to the Dharmic approach we should be welcoming that than considering it some civilizational challenge.

"In conclusion, I want to say this: There are two separate but inter-dependent threats to dharma's survival. The first is for what I coined the term Hinduphobia (Doniger, etc stuff). The second is for what I have coined the term digestion. My focus henceforth will be on the second, for it is far more insidious because most of our gurus and lay persons are rejoicing that we have "arrived on the world stage". That arrival is great, but is it arrival as ourselves, or as parts being disassembled and digested into the DNA of the west? This is what most people here do not yet understand. hence the celebration over Lisa Miller, Phil Goldberg's book and many others.

The critical breakthrough required is supplied by BD - to understand what is not compatible and hence choices is forced. You cannot be a history-centric Judeo-Christian and "also" practice dharma without being a digesting party. "

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RajivMalh ... ssage/1789

Rajiv wrote this while replying to Phil Goldberg of "American Veda" fame.

"None of this means that your work is intentionally "dangerous" - but its incompleteness in appreciating the process at work causes people to celebrate the digestion as a sort of merger of equals which it is not. The tiger digesting the deer remains the tiger, in fact stronger, but the deer turns into a pile of shit. This has happened to many civilizations that were also similarly "assimilated" into Christianity and the west - but they now live in museums..."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RajivMalh ... ssage/1781

The western enlightenment is a taqiya and is shallow. Their intellectual revolution(Renaissance,Modern Civilization ) is less than 250 year old and they have not changed their basic books and knowledge system from earlier centuries.

India cannot assume that the 'western liberal' system is a true one and it may be really to only to absorb and destroy other cultures. That is the only way they know and this cannot be changed. They have corporatized this absorption of other cultures with modern economic/marketing/pop cultures and penetrating other cultures and countries.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Dec 2011 04:10

^ Western enlightenment is more out of fashion than principle. The core is still Abrahamic.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Dec 2011 04:13

CRamS wrote: institutionally US is a racist country. .

I thought it was the other way around.. institutionally it is not, but people largely are! Freudian 's explanatory principles apply in many instances and that be held as proof for this. It happens to many in maasa, especially when one has just immigrated and trying to learn them.

One has to blend to find out many inner feelings for this.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Dec 2011 06:26

SaiK wrote:
CRamS wrote: institutionally US is a racist country. .
I thought it was the other way around.. institutionally it is not, but people largely are!.

Well, it needs to be better articulated. No doubt individuals make up the collective institution, and so they are related. At an instituional level, just passing a few egalitarian laws doesn't cut it. In both US & India, can you deny that despite laws, there is no racial hatred in the former, and caste hatred in the latter?

I think white Christian nationalism is at the core of American nationhood, many of its admirable melting pot attributes notwithstanding. And it is this core thinking that prevents India & US from achieving full strategic partnership. It is this core thinking that even after 9/11, and for sure after Abatobaad, US is still ambivalent about bringing TSP to justice, in fact propping it up, lest US "secularism" project with MMS as project Manager for India be de-railed.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Dec 2011 07:27

ArmenT wrote:From the BBC:
US military's first Hindu chaplain
Here's to Captain Pratima Dharm.

Please update me on whether there is any substance to this or some PR BS. Reason being that very first few seconds, there is this SDRE woman whining about how women are treated in India. Give me a break, and so join the US military as redemption? Once again, its her personal choice, I have no issue with it,but this has nothing to do with advancing India US relations which as I said in my previous post is dominated by US's white Christian nationalist streak. Just because they allow one Hindu woman chaplain in US military, it might make US look good, but nothing strategic nor substantial from Indo-US relations POV.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 15 Dec 2011 14:51

devesh wrote:Manny, your post has an esteemed position to occupy in the Deracination thread.

Hain ji? Do you mean to say that the Deracination thread is a similie for trash posts?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 15 Dec 2011 19:33

as a case study to analyze!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Dec 2011 19:28

India-US-Japan talks not aimed at containing China

"We believe that there are new operational concepts that link the Indian Ocean with the Pacific Ocean, we want to talk about the manifestations of that, both in terms of maritime security and other aspects of commerce and security interactions and we would talk about developments among all the key countries in the Asia Pacific region," Campbell {Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Kurt Campbell} said.

"But our talks wouldn't end there. There would also be talks on global issues. I am very excited about these developments and I think they have the potential to advance trust and understanding among all three capitals," he said, while making it clear that the idea that the dialogue is aimed at containment of China "is simply preposterous on its face."

Campbell said the future prospects of India-US-Japan dialogue depends on progress of Monday's meeting.

"Well, it has taken us some time to set up this meeting. I think, we all will see how this one goes. I think, we will make our assessment after that. We certainly would be open to more frequent discussions, but all parties would have to be comfortable with that. And I think, what we are trying to do is to take step at a time and just see how this first set of interactions goes," he said.

The top American diplomat said the United States has long supported India's desire to play a larger role in the Asia Pacific region. "So the impetus of the Look East strategy on the part of India is something that we warmly endorse and support," he said.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 16 Dec 2011 19:31

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Dec 2011 20:10

I have never been an admirer of Mrs. IG, except on two occasions and those two rise head and shoulder above the admiration I had for all the other Indian PMs put together. The photo above brings out another facet of hers, her confident body language. Here is an Indian Prime Minister sitting back in the chair whereas Nixon is looking distinctly uncomfortable and avoiding her eyes. This is generally not the kind of photographs I am accustomed to from Indian leaders. Very gratifying.