Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 14 Aug 2011 13:15

Pakistan's internal reconciliation.

A sovereign pakistan was never a desirable option for them. They saw themselves as the rightful heir of bharat. When it was refused, they chose EXILE; not pakistan. The holy land acts simply as a 'refuge'.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Aug 2011 13:16

Look, right now the pakistani Elite are addicted to Loot and Terrorism, unless these murderers - namely the ones in GHQ Rawalpindi are brought to book for various terror activities inflicted against India, Gligit, Baltistan, Kyber- Pastun areas, Baluchistan etc. tried and beheaded for crimes against humanity. The average abdul needs to introspect like post war Japan and Germany on these crimes before peace will ever occur.

Until then peace will always be elusive and expecting Terrorists to become good men overnight without requisite punishment is just ideal dreaming.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Aug 2011 13:22

Three soldiers killed as rockets hit base in Pak

Intelligence officials say suspected militants have fired rockets at a paramilitary base in Pakistan’s northwest during an independence day ceremony, killing three soldiers and wounding 23 others.

The officials say the soldiers had just finished raising the Pakistani flag and were gathering for speeches Sunday when the rockets hit the base in Miran Shah, the main town in the North Waziristan tribal area.

AoA.... even the Paki flag cant fly in the citadel of Islam now?

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Aug 2011 13:24

Death for Rawalpindi attack accused

A former Army man has been sentenced to death by a military court in Pakistan for the attack on the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi in October 2009. Six others, including another man in battle fatigues, have been found guilty and sentenced to imprisonment of varying duration.

The sentence was awarded earlier this week and confirmed by the military spokesman on Saturday after a Pakistani daily reported it. However, no details were provided and the man sentenced to death has been identified as “Dr. Aqeel”, alias Usman, by the local media. While the second Army man — a retired Corporal of the medical corps — has been sentenced to life along with three others, the remaining two got seven years imprisonment.

At least 11 soldiers had been killed in the stand-off at the GHQ — the headquarters of the all powerful Army — with terrorists that lasted for 22 hours because of a hostage situation. In all, 23 people including some of the terrorists had been killed in the siege that left the nation stunned and the Army red-faced.

Why has there been a complete lull on IED mubaraks on GHQ/TSPA in Rawalpindi/Isloo/Lahore ?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 14 Aug 2011 13:25

Condom wants to be more than a temporary protection and grace the wardrobe..

http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/13/pakistan ... on-pm.html

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 14 Aug 2011 14:12

@Aditya_V
I think many people on this board have a soft heart towards pakistani's. They may be doing so consciously or unconsciously. Maybe they have a difficulty understanding the concept of partition. But the fact remains that pakistan's focus on india is a problem for us. And the fact that you care(or not) for the people of pakistan does not solve india's problem.

Had it been nipped in the bud, balochistan and pashtunistan would already have been sovereign nations today. And pakistan wouldn't have been china's proxy. It's because indians still have emotional attachments with pakistan(whether you believe or not). Emotions defy logic.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Aug 2011 14:13

Demonstration of the IEDology of Pakistan on the Independence day of that Islamic Republic:

At least 11 killed, 30 injured in Dera Allah Yaar blast

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 14 Aug 2011 14:13

From Sum saar's link

At least 11 soldiers had been killed in the stand-off at the GHQ — the headquarters of the all powerful Army — with terrorists that lasted for 22 hours because of a hostage situation. In all, 23 people including some of the terrorists had been killed in the siege that left the nation stunned and the Army red-faced.

Very confused onlee

At least 11 soldiers killed

in all, 23 killed, including "some" terrorists onlee

In all, I think Bakis can't make out who is a terrorist and who isn't because all of them wear uniform onlee

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 14 Aug 2011 14:37

Normally I would have posted the following report on (yet another) attempt to solve the circular debt problem in Pak's power sector in Pakistani Economic Stress Watch thread. However, an admission by a federal minister is worth being placed in this thread.
The PPP government has made several (rather weak) attempts to solve the circular debt problem without success. Now there is a new attempt. As reported in the on-line edition of Business recorder, a federal minister has said that "The government has no Chartered Accountant who can work out the exact amount of energy sector circular debt"

Solution to circular debt problem: power ministry seeks 12 percent raise in tariff
The Ministry of Water and Power has sought permission from the Energy Committee, headed by the Finance Minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Shaikh, to increase power tariff by 12 percent--two percent after every two months--to reach full cost recovery level aimed at resolution of inter-circular debt issue on permanent basis, official sources told....
One Federal Minister says that the issue of inter-circular debt is so complicated that the government's economic managers are simply unable to deal with it. The government has no Chartered Accountant who can work out the exact amount of energy sector circular debt," he said
...

link
The taller than friends across the border could help by sending an accountant or two, but unfortunately their accounting standards are likely to be different!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Aug 2011 16:03

For a change, violence shifts from Karachi to Balochistan

Thirteen people were killed and dozens injured as the restive Balochistan province was rocked by bomb blasts and incidents of violence as Pakistan celebrated its Independence Day on Sunday.

At least 11 people were killed and 30 others were injured when a bomb blast ripped through a roadside hotel in Dera Allah Yar city in the south-western province, police and witnesses said.

The hotel was destroyed by the blast, which damaged nearby shops and buildings.

Police officials said eight to 10 people could still be buried under the rubble.

Footage on television showed local residents digging through the debris with their hands to pull out the bodies and the injured.

Witnesses said the bomb was placed in the two-storey hotel’s ground floor. The powerful explosion was heard from several kilometres away. No group claimed responsibility for the blast.

In a separate incident, unidentified gunmen killed two labourers from Punjab province in Lasbella district of Balochistan.

The attackers, who were riding a motorcycle, opened fire at the men working in a farm in Sakran area, 10 km from Hub town, police said.

The men succumbed to their injuries while being taken to hospital. They belonged to Muzaffargarh district of Punjab.

The gunmen managed to escape.

In yet another incident, two children were wounded in an explosion at a bus terminal in Mastung town. They were taken to a nearby hospital. Law enforcement personnel cordoned off the area and launched a search for the attackers.

Balochistan has witnessed a sharp increase in political and sectarian violence in recent weeks.

The violence is usually blamed on Baloch nationalist groups that have been waging a bloody campaign for more autonomy and a greater say in decision-making.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Aug 2011 16:08

tsk.. tsk.. TSP should sit at the negotiating table and speak to the misguided youth of Balochistan who have to resort to violence because of repression from TSPA. Human rights are naat to be violated onlee.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Aug 2011 16:21

Kargil "misadventure" derailed Indo-Pak peace process: Sharif

The Indian people too want an early solution of the Kashmir issue as they felt money being spent on arms could be used for the welfare of the masses, he said.Linking Pakistan's prosperity to India, Sharif said the leadership of both countries should follow a free market mechanism and enhance bilateral trade to usher in prosperity in the region.At the same time, Sharif noted that Pakistan had gone nuclear due to India's atomic tests of 1998."It would have been better had it not happened. But the tests by India and Pakistan also opened doors to peace between them. Both Prime Ministers had come very close but they were disengaged (by the Kargil conflict)," he said.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Aug 2011 16:23

Break begging bowl to safeguard Nuclear assets: Shahbaz Sharif

CM, Punjab Mian Shahbaz Sharif has said that in order to safeguard nuclear assets of The Federation, the morbidity of begging bowl (foreign aid) would have to be gotten rid of. {Lahori logic being displayed in pakjab} Addressing the Independence Day celebrations after laying wreaths at Allama Iqbal’s shrine in Lahore, he laying wreaths at Allama Iqbal’s shrine in Lahore, he said that Nation was swamped in quagmire of crisis, and all Nation would have to put in their collective efforts to resurface from this morbidity, by rooting out corruption, economic disparity and loot. He also cited the great tragedy of 1970 , when the Country lost it s Eastern Wing , leaving behind a perpetual scar.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Aug 2011 16:37

Hilarious article and a massive towel being thrown in. Lahori logic: We are nanga-bhooka, beggers, no power, no hope at all but at least we are not ruled by Hindus. So huge victaree..

Lessons in history: Pakistan’s bright future

Pakistan has been in an enormous mess for a long time and no one knows how to get out of this morass. Shortages, socio-political anarchy, sickening economy, the war on terror and urban terrorism are all prevalent in the country. And, yet every Pakistani dreams that by now the country should have been like Europe, America or at least at the level of India and China. Alas, Pakistan is not there but is in a position that its present citizens could not have imagined to be in before 1947. To appreciate a substantial progress of Pakistan, we need a historical perspective.

To value the progress of Pakistani Muslims, we should look at the demographics of pre-1947. Without burdening the reader with too many statistics and numbers , it can be said that 99 per cent of the Muslims of present Pakistan were peasants, artisans, labourers or attached to lowly professions. Yes, of course there were Muslim feudals all around, but they did not represent the vast majority. Other than the army and police, Muslims were almost negligible in business, services, professional classes, bureaucracy or education. All the non-agricultural sectors were completely monopolised by Hindus. This was not from the British era, rather, it was the pattern for the entire Muslim era as well.

Lahore was the main city in the areas now included in Pakistan and is now the second most populous city. One should imagine the Muslims of Lahore of that that era and compare it with the present one. Back then, every economic sector, from banking to education, was owned and run by Hindus only. Muslims had only couple of shops in Anarkali and Mall Road and only two families of note, headed by Ch. Muhammad Shafi and Nawab Muzaffar Qazalbash. In Jhutha Sach (The False Truth, 1958–1960), novelist Yashpal encapsules the status of Muslims in a dialogue between two Hindu ladies talking to each other about seeing a Muslim vegetable vendor in the inner city, one says, “these are the people who will rule us in Pakistan?”

Furthermore, the Indian bourgeoisie industrial/entrepreneurial classes were far more mature than the peasantry and feudals of Pakistan. Though urban Hindu migrants to India were a burden for that country for some time, but they were still skilled and intellectually advanced. {What? You mean those SDRES?} And, if human capital is extremely important in socio-economic growth then Indian gained at the expense of Pakistan because of this devastating migration. Despite all the advantages India had, if one looks at living conditions in the entire northern region of the subcontinent, its Pakistani counter-part has done equally well if not better.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Aug 2011 17:30

Dilbu wrote:Lessons in history: Pakistan’s bright future
Pakistan has been in an enormous mess for a long time and no one knows how to get out of this morass.

That is a very big lie. Pakistan knows perfectly well how they got into this mess. They don't want to accept that. They don't want to correct the path they have been pursuing from 1947. That path was chosen by Muslim League in 1937 and had been in evolution ever since, each iteration more sinister than the previous one. The powers that be in Pakistan also know perfectly well how to get out of that mess, but that means giving up what they have been holding as a precious and immutable goal for over seventy years now.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 14 Aug 2011 17:39

But SS guruji

Wont that mean in politically in-correct terms the failure of Izlam? if poaks accept that their paradigm was wrong and that there is a need for course correction?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Aug 2011 18:07

Mahendra, yes, that's the issue. Any course correction, even an attempt, would immediately unravel Pakistan. If their chosen path is what they want to follow because it is immutable, then they are hurtling rapidly towards what is very obvious to everyone except the Pakistanis themselves. In either case, they seem destined for destruction. Let them reconcile this situation first.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 14 Aug 2011 18:10

All the non-agricultural sectors were completely monopolised by Hindus. This was not from the British era, rather, it was the pattern for the entire Muslim era as well.

Though OT for this thread, this is interesting as an explanation for the seeming Hindu acquiescence to a millennia of foreign rule....While the rulers might have changed from indigenous to foreign - Hindus never lost their numerical dominance in the bureaucracy, trade and academics. Possibly one reason why they did not develop a deep persecution complex as a subjugated class - that might have spurred an earlier rebellion against non-indigenous Mughal / British rule.

wig · Post by **wig** » 14 Aug 2011 18:49

wonder how much longer before china starts micro managing bakistan
China commandos in Xinjiang worries Pak

Within days of pointing the finger at Pakistan as the source of strength for terrorists in its Xinjiang province, China on Saturday sent an elite military commando unit to the region bordering its western neighbour.

A worried Pakistan reacted by dangling the carrot of playing the role of a "conduit for China to reach out to the Muslim world". The move suggests a possible crackdown by the military, which may be gradually losing confidence over the ability of Xinjiang's local forces to tackle well-trained terrorists flowing in from across the border in Pakistan. The People's Liberation Army's Snow Leopard Commando unit is expected to carry out "anti-terrorist missions" in Kashgar and Hotan area, which were hit by deadly violence in recent weeks.

The elite force will focus on riot control, bomb disposal and be prepared to react to any possible hijacking attempts by the separatists, the official media said. The government is trying to ensure security at a forthcoming trade conference in the region, which saw killing of 30 people in July.

Pakistan appeared shaken since experts in government run think-tank came out openly saying Pakistan is the source of training and support to the terrorists seeking separation of Xinjiang from China to form an independent nation. The statement has caused serious harm to its public image as an "all-weather friend" of China.

"We will help China build a bridge to the Middle East and West Europe. We are also a conduit for China to reach out to the Muslim world," Pakistani ambassador Masood Khan was quoted in the Chinese media as saying.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 597168.cms

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 14 Aug 2011 19:04

ramana wrote:Arun Can you tweet that so it gets more publicity.

We now have NAC members on Fai payroll and not just interlocutors.

We should not only tweet but also write a detailed blog uncovering that a traitor on ISI's payroll who is working for the secession of kashmir from India is in NAC advising Sonia and PM on national policies.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 14 Aug 2011 19:31

wig wrote:wonder how much longer before china starts micro managing bakistan. China commandos in Xinjiang worries Pak

I believe that TOI is wrong in their assessment of the situation.

Pasha's scurrying over to Beijing soon after the Xinjiang "revelation" that TEM is a pak-based entity should have been enough to dispel that fear within the paki high command in 'Pindi. While the paki awam has never been brought into full confidence (on anything), the reality is that paki H&D+Sovirginity lies well and truly buried in the Forbidden City. Paki leadership need not worry about Chinese transgressions into its territories because that's what they have secretly desired. With the chinese micromanaging, comes basketful of illusionary goodies. Their (i.e., the pakis) problems have now become someone else's problems. It is the clueless folks in Gilgit/Balitistan who have no idea as to what is in store for them. The real fun will start when the Baltis start realizing that they chose to be on the wrong side of history.

The bottom Line is this: for the purelanders, the Chinese are the white knighted devils compared to the Yank/Yehudi/Yindoo deep sea. Time will tell. The dragon has the patience of a vulture; their long term strategic plans span generations. They will keep the pakis momentarily happy (and comfortably numb, in the words of P. Floyd) in order to achieve their goal of stationing themselves at the crossroads of history and commerce. Pakis are temporary roadblocks. They are used to that role.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Aug 2011 22:21

The US gets knifed in the back by its Major Non NATO Ally, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan apparently allowed their PR Chinese friends to examine and take away samples of the wreckage of the stealth helicopter that crashed at Abbotabad during the mission to execute Osama Bin Laden :

Pakistan gave China access to US helicopter

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 14 Aug 2011 22:31

BRF ahead of the curve as usual onlee.

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 14 Aug 2011 23:27

It would be naive to assume that Amrikhan were not aware of this eventuality.

Most probably such news are unintended psy-ops to re-affirm same old line how improtant Pakhanis are as al-lies, ohh look if Yankis leave such a "geographically important" GUBO partner they will fall in lap of China onlee

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Aug 2011 02:21

The deal is most likely that Pakistan will allow the Chinese to get access to the technology in broken-down form

, and when China develops something Pakistan will get access to the finished product. But they will need Chinese permission to use it, and such permission will be given only if the usage is against India...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Aug 2011 04:58

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/ex-pa ... 110814.htm
Ex-Pak commando suspected in abduction of US national

[

b]commando who deserted from the Pakistan Army [ Images ] has emerged as a suspect in the abduction of an American aid expert in Punjab's [ Images ] provincial capital, police officials said on Sunday[/b]. The former member of the elite Special Services Group was working as a guard at the residence of American national Warren Weinstein, who was kidnapped by a dozen gunmen early on Saturday.
He had deserted from the army some time ago and belonged to the restive tribal belt bordering Afghanistan, a source in a law enforcement agency told mediapersons.
"Investigators are interrogating the guard and are hoping to get some clues from him," the source said. The four guards at Weinstein's home and his driver have been detained by police for questioning. Law enforcement agencies are also conducting inquiry about persons employed by Weinstein. All four guards posted at Weinstein's residence were former SSG commandos and were being paid a large sum to protect him, the source said. "It is quite strange that these former commandos did not offer any resistance and let the kidnappers go about their job with ease," the source said. According to the formal complaint filed by police, Weinstein was the country head for J E Austin Associates, a US-based consulting firm that has been associated with United States Agency for International Development projects in Pakistan since 2005.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Aug 2011 05:17

Dilbu wrote: Lessons in history: Pakistan’s bright future
To value the progress of Pakistani Muslims, we should look at the demographics of pre-1947.

I think the author is confused. It is not demographics he is talking about but the occupational profile of the population. But subliminally he is right in that demographically they have bred/breed a lot, like rabbits actually so can count that as a victory. India needs to keep the electrified fence glowing bright and the watch towers looming tall.

In any case I thought they were all descended from arrap's.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 15 Aug 2011 07:24

arun wrote:The US gets knifed in the back by its Major Non NATO Ally, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan .

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan apparently allowed their PR Chinese friends to examine and take away samples of the wreckage of the stealth helicopter that crashed at Abbotabad during the mission to execute Osama Bin Laden :

Pakistan gave China access to US helicopter

Now that they know about the tail of this super duper advances takniki helicopter soon the full version will be flying... err and also crashing... evil yindu plan onleee

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Aug 2011 07:28

An officer and a gentleman: Ashok Malik

Qais Hussain’s touching letter of condolence is not without precedent. As is now well-known, Hussain, a former fighter pilot of the Pakistan Air Force, shot down an Indian civilian plane over the Rann of Kutch in 1965. He had believed it was on a spy mission. A half-century on, Hussain made contact with the family of Jahangir Engineer, the Indian pilot killed that day, and apologised. He also expressed his regrets to the family of Balwantrai Mehta, the then Gujarat chief minister and Engineer’s passenger.

In 2003, this writer had a remarkable interview with Brigadier ML Khetrapal, World War II veteran, descended from an officer in Ranjit Singh’s army, and father of Second Lieutenant Arun Khetrapal.

Young Arun was killed on December 16, 1971, at the Battle of Basantar. Ranged against each other were the 17 Poona Horse and 13 Lancers, tank regiments fighting for control of the Jammu-Pathankot road.

At a critical stage it came down to three Poona Horse tanks taking on 14 Pakistani ones. Ten of the invaders were put out of operation but so were two Indian tanks. It was now down to one Indian tank, that of Khetrapal, targeted by four Pakistanis. Only 21, Khetrapal showed astounding courage. His tank was hit, he was wounded and yet he fought on. He won the day but lost his life, becoming the youngest recipient of the Param Vir Chakra.

The twist in the tale occurred in 2001. The senior Khetrapal, then 81, sought to travel to Sargodha for ‘one last look’ at the city of his birth. His host in Lahore was one Brigadier KM Nasir, a friend’s friend. Nasir and his family were extremely hospitable.

On Khetrapal’s final night in Nasir’s house, the host invited his guest for an after-dinner chat. He said he had been there at the Battle of Bade Pind, which Indians call the Battle of Basantar: “We were soldiers unknown to each other, fighting for the safety and honour of our respective countries. I regret to have to tell you that your son died at my hands.”

The confession left the two brigadiers with a strange mix of emotions. Khetrapal returned to India but was unable to tell his wife that his gracious host, who had sent so many gifts, was also their son’s killer.

Looking back, Khetrapal felt no anger for Nasir, whom he called “a hero of Pakistan.” “I’m an old soldier,” he said, “I know the feeling. It’s a will to dominate on the field.”

Nasir spoke similarly, “In battle you don’t see faces or people. You only see the tank… Arun Khetrapal was singularly responsible for our failure that day. He was a very brave boy.”

Poignantly, the Poona Horse and the Lancers had an old relationship. In 1947, a Sikh squadron of the Lancers had been transferred to the Poona Horse and a Muslim squadron of the Poona Horse had moved to the Lancers. At Basantar/Bade Pind, Indian and Pakistani soldiers fought their old regiments.

Wistful as these stories are, do they speak of Pakistan’s past more than its present? Both Hussain and Nasir belong to an old school of the Pakistani military. They were recruited in the 1950s or 1960s, before the Zia-ul Haq era, before young officers were taught to think of themselves as holy warriors in uniform.

The tragedy is not just that Jahangir Engineer and Arun Khetrapal are dead. It is that the gallant Qais Hussain and KM Nasir are probably part of a dying breed.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 15 Aug 2011 07:43

Which is precisely why Unkil dynamited it...may have even left some junk behind to mislead the Chinks..but such news appearing regularly in leading western media can only set TSP's third rate whore image back by several decades..

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 15 Aug 2011 08:15

JE Menon wrote:The deal is most likely that Pakistan will allow the Chinese to get access to the technology in broken-down form , and when China develops something Pakistan will get access to the finished product. But they will need Chinese permission to use it, and such permission will be given only if the usage is against India...

Sir jee
Did you try your career as an IP lawyer?

You are gonna make a fortune
Altair

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 15 Aug 2011 08:43

Latest from the WSJ:

U.S. Links Pakistani Aid to Performance
White House Is Basing Billions in Assistance Funds on Islamabad's Ability to Meet a 'Scorecard' of Security Objectives
By ADAM ENTOUS And SIOBHAN GORMAN

WASHINGTON—The White House has started conditioning the award of billions of dollars in security assistance to Pakistan on whether Islamabad shows progress on a secret scorecard of U.S. objectives to combat al Qaeda and its militant allies. The U.S. also is asking Pakistan to take specific steps to ease bilateral tensions.

The classified system, put in place after the U.S. raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden at his Pakistani hideout, signals a shift by the White House toward a pay-for-performance relationship with Pakistan, as doubts grow that the two countries can for now forge a broader alliance based on shared interests.

A senior military official called the unusual new approach "a hard-knuckled reflection of where we are right now" in relations.

Since 2001, the U.S. has lurched from one policy to another in an attempt to win Pakistan's help in fighting al Qaeda and its allies, only to find itself frustrated by what the U.S. sees as Islamabad's double-game in accepting American aid—more than $20 billion since the 9/11 attacks—while still providing clandestine support to some of America's enemies.

U.S. aid to Pakistan, including economic and security-related assistance, totaled nearly $4.5 billion in fiscal 2010. Security aid accounted for more than $2.7 billion of that, according to the Congressional Research Service.

The White House is responding in part to mounting calls in Congress for putting stringent new conditions on future aid to Pakistan, officials say. Many lawmakers have demanded sharp cuts in military assistance.

"The message is: You make progress in these areas, and we can release some of this assistance," a senior U.S. official said of the review process. "Give us something that we can show [Congress] that we're working together."

Under the new approach, the office of the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper is compiling classified scorecards that track Pakistan's cooperation in four areas, referred to in the White House as "baskets."

Each basket contains a to-do list that the administration wants from Pakistan.

Washington has told Islamabad that future payouts of security assistance would hinge on Pakistan showing it is making progress in these four areas, U.S. officials said. The White House hasn't assigned specific dollar values to each item.

U.S. officials say the Obama administration presented the request list to Pakistani officials in May, shortly after the bin Laden raid. The raid, carried out without Pakistani knowledge, had already fueled Pakistani concerns that the U.S. doesn't consider Islamabad an equal partner.

A spokesman for Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency denied the U.S. had formally presented Pakistan with such a list and said it was Pakistan's prerogative to decide how to combat terrorism and conduct relations with Afghanistan.

Pakistan's Ambassador to the U.S., Husain Haqqani, said the relationship between Islamabad and Washington was more than a set of quid-pro-quo transactions. "This relationship is not just about aid," he said.

"When it comes to our military aid, we are not prepared to continue providing that at the pace we were providing it unless and until we see certain steps taken," a senior U.S. official said. "We have identified a number of areas in which both Pakistan and the U.S. need to take measures together to move our relationship forward. And while the areas where we need to make progress are not secret, we are discussing them privately, not publicly."

Advocates of the system say it is the only viable approach at this time. Others are critical.

"Part of it sounds paternalistic and arrogant," said Henry Crumpton, a former senior Central Intelligence Agency and State Department counterterrorism official. "It's as if you're giving a report card to a child. Instead, you [should] have a joint strategy, with an ally, and you find operations that support that strategy, and you measure progress jointly."

The four baskets are: Pakistani cooperation in exploiting the bin Laden compound; Pakistani cooperation with the war in Afghanistan; Pakistani cooperation with the U.S. in conducting joint counterterrorism operations; and cooperation in improving the overall tone in bilateral relations. Officials said the details of those baskets were classified.

But the return of the tail section—three weeks after the raid—remains a contentious issue. U.S. officials have information that suggests Pakistani officials allowed the Chinese to examine the tail rudder of the stealth helicopter before returning it. However, the information isn't conclusive. U.S. officials had asked the Pakistanis not to allow anyone else access to the helicopter.

Officials see less progress in other areas. The U.S. wants Pakistan to authorize joint operations against al Qaeda leaders and to free a detained Pakistani doctor who helped the CIA track bin Laden. The basket that measures progress in improving the overall tone in bilateral relations includes a specific call on Pakistan to renew visas for U.S. government personnel to work in Pakistan. The CIA and the military say Pakistan has been holding back hundreds of visa requests.

Mr. Clapper's office looks at each item in each basket and assigns "green light," "yellow light" and "red light" assessments to show whether progress is being made.

According to officials, the classified score cards are presented to the so-called deputies committee of the White House National Security Council. The deputies, who represent senior members of the president's cabinet, oversee the review process and the release of security funding. Officials wouldn't say how they decide how much money to release for incremental progress by Pakistan.

Some current and former officials say the approach shows that the goal of establishing a broad strategic partnership with Pakistan is losing support within the U.S. government.

WSJ link

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Aug 2011 09:29

Report card to a child? Oh man, that is some slap on the etch&dee of TSP. But I didn't see any mention of LeT in that score card. Maybe there is a deliberate opening left in there for TSP to exploit and salvage some etch&dee.

Abhibhushan · Post by **Abhibhushan** » 15 Aug 2011 09:42

abhishek_sharma quoted

An officer and a gentleman

I have just received a view on the subject by mail from a group:

Death in Enemy Action

My father is a retired Indian Air force officer (Wing Commander). He knows first hand the true story of the death of the then Chief Minister of Gujarat Balwant Rai Mehta. My father, then Sqn Ldr BC Roy was the commanding officer of the only Air Force unit, which was a lone Radar unit at Bhuj during the Rann of Kutch operations, September 1965 India-Pakistan war.

After watching NDTV programme 46 years after the war (http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... ity/207609), rubbished the sequence and circumstance in which the Pakistan Air Force pilot Flying Officer Qais Hussein was compelled to shoot down the Beechcraft that was ferrying the then Chief Minister of Gujarat Balwant Rai Mehta along with his wife. It was being piloted by none other than ace retd Indian Air Force pilot Jehangir Engineer. This is what my father had to say:

1. Beechcraft takes off from Tata Chemicals, Mithapur. It was being piloted by former ace Indian Air Force officer pilot Jehangir Engineer and on board was the then serving Chief Minister of Gujarat Balwant Rai Mehta along with his wife and journalists, on 19th September 1965.

2. The movement of the Chief Minister was well publicised in newspapers, including advertisements. The Pakistan(is) knew of his movement all along.

3. Two Sabres from Pakistan chased the plane, twenty kilometers deep into Indian territory from international border and wanted to hijack this aircraft. They asked the plane to follow them to their airbase. The Pak Air Force knew all along that the Beechcraft was being flown by none other than the ace IAF pilot Jehangir Engineer, ferrying the then Gujarat Chief Minister and wife. Pakistan wanted to take them along as their prisoners which would certainly have been a great prize catch indeed.

4. While being escorted Jehangir Engineer, whose younger brother Group Captain Ronnie Engineer was then the Station Commander in Pune Airbase and another was Air Vice Marshal (famous Engineer brothers of IAF), could not let the Pak Air Force do this to them. He found a patch of land within Indian territory at Rann of Kutch. He ducked and wanted to force land the aircraft to save the Chief Minister from the two enemy Sabre jets.

5. The Sabres were totally merciless and pumped bullets, killing the pilot, the chief minister, his wife and other passengers on board, even though the pilot had waggled his wings, indicating it to be a civilian aircraft, thereby Pakistan Air Force violated an important international treaty, by shooting down a civilian aircraft killing unarmed innocent people including a lady.

Somik Ranjan Roy, Salt Lake, Kolkata

So now we are willing to call war criminals and cold blooded murderers as Gentlemen ! Jai Ho.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Aug 2011 10:24

Gents.First V.Happy Independence Day to you all! We need to take stock of our nation at this juncture, as it is in great danger of going the Paki way if we do not stop the "looters and scooters" of our political-babu nexus who are behaving exactly as the British did,looting the nation of its wealth,with the exception that the fig leaf of the rule of law and justice kept the peace during the Raj.We are in great danger of losing that today with the corrupt judges and IAS babus protecting each other as well.We have replaced our erstwhile solar-topi wallahs for the Gandhi capped,dhoti-wallahs who are far worse than the erstwhile British.

Nevertheless,after having thrown off the foreign yoke,thanks to the efforts of our never-to-be forgotten freedom-fighters,we do need to also make a comparison between ourselves and Pak.It could've been infinitely worse!!! Just one quick look across the western border and one reacxhes for a helmet! The hell-hole that Pak has become must be tormenting the QEM in his other-world abode.It is the price he has to pay for Partition! The disintegration of Pak is an inevitability.Its chaos is snowballing and we must be prepared for the great event when it happens.We shoiuld not be unprepared as the US was when the USSR collapsed and the Berlin Wall fell-whose 50th anniversary was commemorated just a day ago.I posted in the Af-Pak thread the warning by the former Af. Intel choief not to trust the Taliban.One could easily interchange the name as "Pakistan".All the signals from the uniformed tribes of Pak who rule the creaking ,groaning and exploding nation that Pak has become is that even if they have to clutch at a straw to save their drowning entity,they would rather clutch India's throat instead !

We therefore have to batten down hatches and prepare for the worst as Pak will not go down with a whimper.Its track record speaks for itself.Whenever the Paki state or leadership was in acute distress,it waged war against India.These days,well-knowing that it does not have the conventional edge,it has taken recourse to terrorism,which it feels-thanks to the impotent regime of "Uncle Scam",can be orchestrated at will within India.After 26/11 was revealed to be a Paki/ISI plot,thanks to the capture of Kasab,the latest round of serial blasts in Bombay was mor ecleverly organised with little trails available.This is going to be the nature of future terror attacks,to avoid leaving Paki fingerprints at the scene of the crime.Can we still kepe on turning the other cheek,countless times? On this day when our long-suffering nation uttered the cry of freedom 64 years ago,we get the feeling that a global conspiracy to imprison us yet again is afoot,in both economic and strategic aspects.While we hope for the best,we shuld prepare for the worst and this is the message that we should ram down the throats of our current crop of leaders who have sadly become indifferent to the decline in the nation's institutions and the betrayal of the Freedom Struggle.

PS:It is hilarious that Uncle Sam has brought out a scorecard of Paki performance,rather like a restaurant menu -proces attached,or "tricks" available in a seedy bordello for quenching one's lust by the deed and hour! I guess the two deserve each other.What will not be on the scorecard however will be any action from Pak that lessens the knavery,chicanery and devilry against India.Those are the tit-bits that Uncle Sam will provide the rent-boy with to satisfy his jollies.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Aug 2011 11:52

nvishal wrote:@Aditya_V
I think many people on this board have a soft heart towards pakistani's. They may be doing so consciously or unconsciously. Maybe they have a difficulty understanding the concept of partition. But the fact remains that pakistan's focus on india is a problem for us. And the fact that you care(or not) for the people of pakistan does not solve india's problem.

Had it been nipped in the bud, balochistan and pashtunistan would already have been sovereign nations today. And pakistan wouldn't have been china's proxy. It's because indians still have emotional attachments with pakistan(whether you believe or not). Emotions defy logic.

It is this self falgalation and pity for the enemy especiually amoung the Political and Media elite(the need to prove one is magnanimous at the Nation' cost as against one's Bank balance's cost) which prevents India from taking a united tough stand against Pakistan

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 15 Aug 2011 13:12

Pakistan breaks world record of most people-singing national anthem

KARACHI: Pakistan achieved the world record for most people singing a national anthem simultaneously late Saturday night when 5,857 Pakistanis chanted the national anthem here at the Defence Stadium in connection with the Independence Day celebrations.

Only 5K? Something is wrong in the numbers. I am sure more Indians have sung the Indian national anthem in our cricket stadiums during the world cup.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Aug 2011 13:23

what about at the CWG?
what about americans signing theirs at the superbowl?
or brits singing theirs at FA Cup Final?
hell, even South AFricans singing sikelele afrika at a springboks game...
paquis are on herbs again...

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Aug 2011 13:28

Errr, 1 Baki=10/100 kufr...
so, actually 5000000 ( equal to the number of cruel hindu army men raping Kashmiris daily) sang the anthem and so is a world record!!!

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Aug 2011 15:39

BSF DIG (G Branch), S Oberoi:

"We have given them sweets and fruits on their Independence Day yesterday during a flag meeting. But they have returned the gesture with bullets today on our Independence Day,"

Read it all:

Pak Violates Ceasefire on I-Day Along J&K Border