Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 Oct 2013 21:10

RaMe ji have you got a contract from mobile companies to push the above ponzi scheme?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Oct 2013 23:51

Sanku He is highlighting a serious issue in his imitable style. Where is he touting SMS services? He is saying contact your MP to change the law. If one wants they can write a letter and send by registered post. And SMS is cheaper.
RM I didnt know the BJP role in reducing the juvenile age.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 07 Oct 2013 01:20

I was trying to look up this change in Juvenile age as i too have no clue when it was changed, but am not getting much info. What i got is here:

The Juvenile Justice Bill was first introduced in the Lok Sabha on 22 August 1986. This Act was further amended in 2006 and 2011 and is now known as the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection) Act, 2000

This law, brought in compliance of Child Rights Convention 1989, repealed the earlier Juvenile Justice Act of 1986 after India signed and ratified Child Rights Convention 1989 in year 1992. This Act has been further amended in year 2006 and 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Juveni ... _Act,_2000

Another site i visited but got no info what happened in 2000 except that they named the act Juvenile Justice Act 2000..is here:

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1205366/

It seems the Juvenile age was 16 till 1986 at least..then with the CR convention 89 in 92 was ratified. Amended in 2006 and 2010. (No info that it was changed in 2000, except naming the Act 2000) Any info when exactly that was done, would like pointed out here. Thanks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Oct 2013 20:51

harbans, The act was passed in 2000. It had the changes based on CR Cconvention of 1989 and ratified in 1192. And amended further on in 2006 and 2010.

http://wcd.nic.in/childprot/jjact2000.pdf

Moore useful to read the Child Rights Convention of 1989 to see how the JJ Act of 2000 is in conformance or in variance.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 07 Oct 2013 23:30

December 16 gangrape case: Two convicts file appeal in HC

Two of the four convicts facing death for the December 16 gangrape of a paramedical student on Monday filed their appeals before Delhi High Court challenging the trial court's conviction and sentence against them.

Tightening noose around heinous crime: Death sentence for Dec 16 gangrape convicts

Filing a joint appeal through counsel AP Singh, convicts Vinay Sharma (20) and Akshay Thakur (28) sought the trial court's conviction and sentencing orders on September 10 and 13, respectively, to be set aside.

The trial court had last month awarded the death penalty to the above duo along with Mukesh (26) and Pawan Gupta (19) for raping the 23-year-old victim on a moving bus in south Delhi on the night of December 16, 2012.

"The trial court's conviction and sentence orders are bad in law. The trial judge did not pay any heed to the facts of the case and applied the law contrary to the facts," the counsel said.

Claiming that Vinay was 17-years-old and should be tried under the Juvenile Justice Act, the appeal said, "The Investigating Officer (IO) in the case should be directed to bring record of date of birth of appellant 1 (Vinay) from his native village and conduct the ossification test of the appellant."

Seeking modification in the trial court order along with acquittal of the convict, the appeal said, "Vinay was a juvenile as his age was 17 years and eight months... The court had turned down his plea for ossification test. He is pursuing his BA 2nd year from jail. The appellant is also a gym trainer and was financially supporting his family."

Saying that due to their poor financial status, Vinay had to earn to support his family.

Stating that he also used to donate blood, the appeal claimed he was not a criminal. "The person who can donate blood to save another's life can never take the life of anyone," it said.

Similarly, the appeal said about Akshay that his wife was illiterate and he had two children while his aged parents were suffering from various ailments.

The convicts also cited such grounds as that the FIR was not a substantive piece of evidence and one could not be convicted on its basis.

According to the convicts, the trial judge relied on the statements of the prosecution witnesses (PW) who are not reliable and the court should reject the statement of PW 1, the male friend of the victim.

"PW1 and the deceased were close friends... which would naturally have a tendency to exaggerate or add facts which might not have happened," the plea said.

Their appeal is likely to be listed tomorrow along with the trial court's reference for confirmation of the death penalty against the convicts before a bench of Justices Reva Khetrapal and Pratibha Rani.

While awarding capital punishment to the convicts, the trial court had said the case fell in the rarest of rare category as the crime was committed against the "defenceless" girl in a "beastly" and "hair-raising" manner and referred the case to high court for confirmation of the sentence.

The trial court has to refer each death penalty case to the high court for confirmation of the punishment.

Prime accused Ram Singh (34) was found dead in his cell in Tihar Jail in March and proceedings against him were subsequently abated.

On August 31, the juvenile accused in the case was convicted and sentenced to a maximum of three years in a reformation home.

On December 16 last year, the paramedical student was gangraped on a moving bus in south Delhi after the convicts lured her and her male friend, who was also assaulted, on board the vehicle, which was found to be plying illegally.

The victim's 28-year-old friend suffered fractures in his limbs. The girl succumbed to her injuries on December 29 at a Singapore hospital

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Oct 2013 01:02

Tandoor case: Victim was not a hapless woman, SC says
This case had made headlines not only because it involved high profile people but also for the sheer brutality of the crime. One could not imagine how a well off person , in a leading position in society , could commit such heinous act. But one can explain this by saying that he was a youth congress leader.

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Tuesday discarded the contention of the police that the death sentence awarded to former Youth Congress leader Sushil Sharma should be retained as he shot dead and burnt the body of a helpless woman, his wife Naina Sahni, saying she was "not hapless".

A bench headed by Chief Justice P Sathasivam said Sharma was not in a "dominant position" with regard to his wife who was a qualified pilot and an independent lady capable of taking her own decisions.

"The appellant (Sharma) was the state president of the Youth Congress in Delhi. The deceased was a qualified pilot and she was also the state general secretary of Youth Congress (Girls Wing), Delhi. She was an independent lady who was capable of taking her own decisions. From the evidence on record, it cannot be said that she was not in touch with people residing outside the four walls of her house.

"She was not a poor illiterate hapless woman. Considering the social status of the deceased, it would be difficult to come to the conclusion that the appellant was in a dominant position qua her," the bench said.

The observations were made by the apex court while commuting to life imprisonment the death sentence awarded to Sharma by a trial court in 2003 and upheld by the Delhi high court in 2007.

And so perhaps the inference is that roasting in tandoor after murder was after all not such a rarest of rare crime. Just imagine after 10 years one can very well say that Jyoti should not have gone out at late hours with boy friend. Her rape and murder is not so rarest after all. More than 20000 rapes take place in India. What's the big deal in one rape.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Oct 2013 02:05

Maybe its the bending to an illwind that induces the (dis)Honble Justices to give such sentences.

Maybe the judges think the murderer was performing cremation duties of a husband by stuffing in the tandoor and not destroying evidence?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 09 Oct 2013 02:30

who defines what is rare of rare crime?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Oct 2013 22:36

Crimes which are rarely rare.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2013 08:47

I don't understand the judges line of thinking. What has not a hapless woman got to do with the heinous natture of the crime? It is the guy who shot her with a gun and burnt her body in a tandoor oven to wipe out trace of his crime. Is the judges contention the wife could have walked out or shot him with her own gun?
Looks tortured thinking to hide loss of moral compass?Or is it to exonerate a ruling party member?

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 11 Oct 2013 09:31

Sanku wrote:RaMe ji have you got a contract from mobile companies to push the above ponzi scheme?

Dear Sanku,

I will soon order my MP via SMS to order PM to give one special number to all MPs and MLAs, on which any voter can send 50 SMS from any cell phone provider to MP for free and rest will be charged at 5 paise per SMS only.

I request you and ALL 80 crore voters to do same.

YES, I am corrupt and I am cell companies' tout. Is that the reason why YOU are NOT ordering your MP via SMS to make NaMo PM or India? Or reduce juvenile age? How much do SMS cost you? I suppose you have 3000 SMS for Rs 150 pack. So SMS cost you 15000/3000 = 5 paise per SMS. So yes, I will stealing 1 paise from your SMS, assuming I am a cell phone company tout. Is that why you dont want to do dharmic duty of sending necessary orders to MPs via SMS to save India?

====

Dear All,

In Juvenile Act Ragiv Gandhi made in 1986, age was 16 years for male and 18 years for female.

It was ABV who made it 18 years for males as well in year 2001.

Raise in juvenile age was done to promote love-jihad in India.

UN resolution was used as excuse. Many countries such as USA, Austrialia etc dont follow such resolution.

=====

ramana wrote:Sanku He is highlighting a serious issue in his imitable style. Where is he touting SMS services? He is saying contact your MP to change the law. If one wants they can write a letter and send by registered post. And SMS is cheaper.
RM I didnt know the BJP role in reducing the juvenile age.

Thanks Ramana

. And pls ignore anti-RM-remarks of anti-RM-elements

. I enjoy them. And so should all.

===

ramana wrote: I don't understand the judges line of thinking. What has not a hapless woman got to do with the heinous natture of the crime? It is the guy who shot her with a gun and burnt her body in a tandoor oven to wipe out trace of his crime. Is the judges contention the wife could have walked out or shot him with her own gun? Looks tortured thinking to hide loss of moral compass?Or is it to exonerate a ruling party member?

The judges eye on promotions etc when giving judgments and also eye on what assignments they may get in future from International Human Rights bodies etc. And so they give ridiculously low pro-criminal judgments. Some judges stoop further low, and sell judgment. eg Soharabuddin encounter got limelight because some a powerful business family paid SCjs to propel that case. Otherwise, why would anyone bother for death of a a known extortionist?

Solution is IMO --- we should let a Jury decide. So pls order MPs via SMS to print JurySys draft in Gazette.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Oct 2013 10:17

ramana wrote:Sanku He is highlighting a serious issue in his imitable style. Where is he touting SMS services? He is saying contact your MP to change the law. If one wants they can write a letter and send by registered post. And SMS is cheaper.
.

Ramana-ji; there is a clear focus on sending SMSs. Of course the plea could be that SMS is cheap, but imagine a whole host of spam SMSs (which these are) -- and what they mean to telephone companies.

.1 * 800,00,000 = 8 cr rs from a single set of transactions.

This is also not a single time RaMe has pushed people to send mass SMS -- he has been saying that if people are really serious about NaMo they should send SMS and ask their MPs to get NaMo, and this will get NaMo as PM.

Further more, the idea is spam because -- there is no rule or law (I remember RaMe being enthu about letters of law and asking laws to be drafted) -- which remotely enables a voter telling a MP of whom he wants as a PM meaning anything at all in the system, similarly, sending SMSs where anyone can send anyone an SMS and the MP has no idea whether its a call center spam, a real number, a number from his constituency or from timbuktu -- is not remotely a meaningful idea.

What really means in the system is voting for a party and working closely (which is not same as sending sms) with it to ask it to get the meaningful laws -- which I note RaMe is loath to have votes go to NaMo, in fact, he keeps running down NaMo - he has also not taken on the substantive parts of law and order in Gujarat for example.

I see this more as a distraction technique to spread FUD and we all know that in FUD allows a market for lemons, where in the good and the bad are both valued equally. Also the focus on SMS is disconcerting. A far greater impact would be even a 100 people going to their MPs office and submitting a memorandum.

Such little things have a far greater impact that these airy-fairy (pun intended) schemes riding on ether...

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 11 Oct 2013 18:58

Sanku wrote:Ramana-ji; there is a clear focus on sending SMSs. Of course the plea could be that SMS is cheap, but imagine a whole host of spam SMSs (which these are) -- and what they mean to telephone companies.

.1 * 800,00,000 = 8 cr rs from a single set of transactions.

This is also not a single time RaMe has pushed people to send mass SMS -- he has been saying that if people are really serious about NaMo they should send SMS and ask their MPs to get NaMo, and this will get NaMo as PM.

Further more, the idea is spam because -- there is no rule or law (I remember RaMe being enthu about letters of law and asking laws to be drafted) -- which remotely enables a voter telling a MP of whom he wants as a PM meaning anything at all in the system, similarly, sending SMSs where anyone can send anyone an SMS and the MP has no idea whether its a call center spam, a real number, a number from his constituency or from timbuktu -- is not remotely a meaningful idea.

What really means in the system is voting for a party and working closely (which is not same as sending sms) with it to ask it to get the meaningful laws -- which I note RaMe is loath to have votes go to NaMo, in fact, he keeps running down NaMo - he has also not taken on the substantive parts of law and order in Gujarat for example.

I see this more as a distraction technique to spread FUD and we all know that in FUD allows a market for lemons, where in the good and the bad are both valued equally. Also the focus on SMS is disconcerting. A far greater impact would be even a 100 people going to their MPs office and submitting a memorandum.

Such little things have a far greater impact that these airy-fairy (pun intended) schemes riding on ether...

The thread is on unsafety to women, and not on "citizens must do their dharmic duty of sending necessary orders to MPs via SMS" topic. Now you can make OST remarks and get away, but I cant. And I see no thread where the dharmic duty SMS can be discussed. So I cant comment on above comment.

But 100 people going to office of MP is complete waste of time. And SMS is NOT spam. Spam is when one person sends 10000s of SMS. Here each voter on his own his sending 100-200 orders necessary to save India to his cell phone via SMS.

I have discussed all his in AFAQs on ordering MPs via SMS

https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151192680806922

https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151156972141922

https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151190606916922

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Oct 2013 19:26

Rahul Mehta wrote: The thread is on unsafety to women, and not on "citizens must do their dharmic duty of sending necessary orders to MPs via SMS" topic. Now you can make OST remarks and get away, but I cant. And I see no thread where the dharmic duty SMS can be discussed. So I cant comment on above comment.

No the point is that in EVERY thread you have "send a SMS to MP and the problem will be magically solved". I am pointing out to Ramana-ji that this is the new "pay Rs 10 to talati to solve all problems magically" that is being touted.

As far as OT is concerned, I believe the "send SMS to MP and all problems will be solved" is not only OT to a thread, but to the concept of reality itself. Most people on BRF have learned to not get into a slug fest of "how does sending SMS mean anything at all" even presuming it can be done, but I think at least some amount of resistance needs to be put up to this new talalti scheme.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Oct 2013 20:26

Rahul Mehta wrote:

Solution is IMO --- we should let a Jury decide. So pls order MPs via SMS to print JurySys draft in Gazette.

I agree on this idea of Jury System . it was abolished in India in 1960 in the wake of Nanavati Trial.

And yes your argument about SMS is valid. About Jury trial apart from SMS I am yet to get an opening to make the suggestions where it would move to main stream. But Juvenile Act would have changes incorporated sooner or later. Your SMS campaign would surely strengthen the hand of those in favour of change,. But you will not get a confirmation from me is i SMSed or not. So please don't ask. You are also in public life and likely to fight Parliamentary elections. So that's that.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Oct 2013 20:32

Sanku wrote:

No the point is that in EVERY thread you have "send a SMS to MP and the problem will be magically solved". I am pointing out to Ramana-ji that this is the new "pay Rs 10 to talati to solve all problems magically" that is being touted.

As far as OT is concerned, I believe the "send SMS to MP and all problems will be solved" is not only OT to a thread, but to the concept of reality itself. Most people on BRF have learned to not get into a slug fest of "how does sending SMS mean anything at all" even presuming it can be done, but I think at least some amount of resistance needs to be put up to this new talalti scheme.

I think he is not telling problem will get solved magically but that MPS will feel pressure of public opinion and will have to re-evaluate his/her stand. Afterall all democracy is nothing by aggregation of Public aspirations which are to be expressed through representatives elected by Voters. So there is no harm is reaching out to MPs in anyway possible including SMS. One need not SMS but could write or speak or send letters signed by many or organise meetings. SMS is cheapest way to teach your MPs what you want him to do.

But Magic solution is not there unless we are alert vigil and demanding or kicking the bu!!.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 11 Oct 2013 21:41

Rahul Mehta : The thread is on unsafety to women, and not on "citizens must do their dharmic duty of sending necessary orders to MPs via SMS" topic. Now you can make OST remarks and get away, but I cant. And I see no thread where the dharmic duty SMS can be discussed. So I cant comment on above comment.

Sanku: No the point is that in EVERY thread you have "send a SMS to MP and the problem will be magically solved". I am pointing out to Ramana-ji that this is the new "pay Rs 10 to talati to solve all problems magically" that is being touted. As far as OT is concerned, I believe the "send SMS to MP and all problems will be solved" is not only OT to a thread, but to the concept of reality itself. Most people on BRF have learned to not get into a slug fest of "how does sending SMS mean anything at all" even presuming it can be done, but I think at least some amount of resistance needs to be put up to this new talalti scheme.

Dear Audience,

Anti-RM-elements will make OST remarks on my posts and when I reply, they will gang up and accuse me of ruining thread. So I will not reply to above comment of Sanku which has NOTHING to do with thread topic i.e. unsafety of women.

Sanku: ... Most people on BRF have learned to not get into a slug fest of "how does sending SMS mean anything at all" even presuming it can be done ....

Yes, I am presuming that BRFites and over 60 crore voters' fingers are strong enough to send order to MP via SMS. Too much of presumption?

===

Rahul Mehta : Solution is IMO --- we should let a Jury decide. So pls order MPs via SMS to print JurySys draft in Gazette.

chaanakya : I agree on this idea of Jury System . it was abolished in India in 1960 in the wake of Nanavati Trial.

Mr. Jawaharlal and Supreme judges banned Jury Trial to protect landlords. Nanavati case was a mere excuse.

==

And yes your argument about SMS is valid.

Thanks. Pls see if you can give newspaper ad to request voters to order their MPs via SMS to decrease juvenile age to 16 years. I gave that newspaper advt in Gujarat Samachar first page ahmedabad edition on 1-oct-2013. Here is the scan https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 9078216922 . The ad has lines "3. ૪૦ કરોડ મતદારો સાંસદોને smsથી હુકમ મોકલે કે “બાળ ગુન્હેગારની ઉમર ૧૮ વર્ષ થી ઘટાડી ૧૬ વર્ષ કરો #juvenile” તો દિલ્હીમાં ૧૬-ડીસેમ્બરે બનેલ ખૂન-બળાત્કારના પાંચમા આરોપીને પણ ફાંસી થશે." . - (Translation - when 40 crore voters order their MPs via SMS to reduce juvenile age to 16 years , the 5th accused will also get executed).

chaanakya wrote:I think he is not telling problem will get solved magically but that MPS will feel pressure of public opinion and will have to re-evaluate his/her stand. ....

Well, I am saying that "if 40 crore voters order MPs via SMS to print a law, then that law will get printed in Gazette in few days". And if that law were to solve a problem, then that problem will also get solved. And there is NO magic behind it.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 11 Oct 2013 22:12

IMO, the proposal to send SMSs, letters in Drop Box, Email, crowd accumulating in designated areas in support or opposition of a proposal with intent to communicate and *order* their elected reps is a good one.

So, RM ji, is there a way to execute this on a pilot basis? This needs to be done with a small scope first with support of few amenable MLA/MPs and tell a story of the change driven by people using this method.

Can we identify the following to take this forward:
[*] A particular geography and representatives that may be amenable to such an idea
[*] A few potential issues that can be addressed in a easier to communicate and acceptable to all stakeholders
[*] A campaign to make public aware of this new simple tool that can impact their lives
[*] Initial assessment of the cost for this campaign
[*] Identification and enrollment of sympathetic media outlets or alternate media/websites that would disseminate this idea, the impact and empowerment tis idea is able to drive
[*]Infrastructure (website or a timeslot in TV channels) to expand the scope of this idea

What support do you/we need towards this so some of us can pitch in with help?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Oct 2013 23:38

Are our MP's and MLA's so disconnected from reality that we need to send them SMS to remind them about how we feel and if Yes then what an SMS is going to do if a political leader doesnot know what his constituents are thinking ? I mean if public opinion could shake our worthies, MMS ji and his whole cabinet would have resigned by now but alas we are dealing with this animal who is more thick skinned than a rhino.

Bringing back jury system is great but knowing how Indian public sways, it could set up dangerous implications.
Tell me how many Jury members would have thrown Sanjay Dutt (or Salman Khan or Saif Ali Khan or Sant Asaram ji etc.) in Jail. I dont think we as a country are fit to have jury system yet.
Fact remains that we are too corrupt and emotional a society to deal with such western concepts of Jury system.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 12 Oct 2013 00:19

+1 Vikas! Plus we must integrate the inevitability of a Jury system becoming a quota system: Out of 10, 2 will be Seculars, 2 Dalit, 3 OBC/ST/SC,2 General category and 1 Human rights activist/ Jholawalla types.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 12 Oct 2013 01:04

I don't know much about the advantages of jury system, may be the fate is decided by a group rather than an individual, but it too might not be perfect either...I am sure you know about wrongful convictions of many people mainly blacks in the US, then there is a jury selection process, most potential jurors are eliminated or kept purely on some basis of bias that is assumed to play a role in judgement anyway...this is in US...now this system will be rigged in India. I would prefer a dispassionate judge over biased jury any day.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 12 Oct 2013 01:48

VikasRaina wrote:Are our MP's and MLA's so disconnected from reality that we need to send them SMS to remind them about how we feel and if Yes then what an SMS is going to do if a political leader doesnot know what his constituents are thinking ? I mean if public opinion could shake our worthies, MMS ji and his whole cabinet would have resigned by now but alas we are dealing with this animal who is more thick skinned than a rhino.

Point is about continuous public participation and feedback in the affairs not just vote once and forget. The problems you refer to are a direct consequence of politicians thinking that they are safe until next elections when they can buy people off just once. SMS idea that RM ji is suggesting provides one low cost method to provide feedback. If carefully managed, this idea could be very useful where politicians will have to willing/publicly share their cell phone #s and policy can be made to not even charge such SMSs and have statistics made publicly available etc.

saip · Post by **saip** » 12 Oct 2013 01:54

The jury system was abolished in India after the Nanavathi trial as it was felt the jury could easily be swayed. Event at that time I do not think the jury was accused of corruption but simply of bias because of the social status of the accused and the community they belonged to (accused a Parsi and the victim a jain(?) ). But today everyone knows who the judge is and as he is only one, it is easy to influence/corrupt him.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 12 Oct 2013 04:49

VikasRaina wrote:Are our MP's and MLA's so disconnected from reality that we need to send them SMS to remind them about how we feel and if Yes then what an SMS is going to do if a political leader doesnot know what his constituents are thinking ? I mean if public opinion could shake our worthies, MMS ji and his whole cabinet would have resigned by now but alas we are dealing with this animal who is more thick skinned than a rhino.
...

Giving "orders" to MPs/ MLAs is a good idea for its psychological effect: it reinforces the voter's sense he is the master, and hopefully inculcates in the MP/MLA that he is the employee of the voter, and subject to his/her orders.

Changing the vocabulary to include such terms as "orders" is a good idea and kudos to Rahul Mehta for having the smarts to think of it and the guts to carry it forward. The MPs / MLAs are nothing more or less than hired help of the people of the country, but both these servants and the masters have forgotten that fact. (Rather, when the servants were left by the masters to automatically "know" their job and do it, the servants used the opportunity to create the mass delusion that the master-servant relationship is reversed, and they, the employees, are the "sarkaar", or mai-baap. While we are at it, we may want to replace the Hindi term "sarkar" with "khidmat-kaar", and likewise "prabhutvam" with "sevakatvam", and similar changes in English)

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Oct 2013 06:44

Dear All,

My suggestion that all 80 crore voters should do their dharmic duty of sending order to MPs via SMS to decrease juvenile age from 18 years to 16 years , and other issues, has created created both support and hostility on BRF. And so has my proposal on Jury System.

I would love to answer all questions. But if I do, then anti-RM-elements will gang up and accuse me of thread derailing. Let me see if I can start another thread on this topic. Meanwhile you may check following Facebook-notes https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151192680806922 ,
https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151156972141922 , https://facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151190606916922 . If you wish to support, pls start sending necessary orders to MPs via SMS from today , pls give newspaper advt to ask others to send necessary orders to MPs via SMS.

Satya_anveshi wrote:IMO, the proposal to send SMSs, letters in Drop Box, Email, crowd accumulating in designated areas in support or opposition of a proposal with intent to communicate and *order* their elected reps is a good one.

Thanks

. and AWMTA

. But pls note that SMS sending would cheaper than ALL.

So, RM ji, is there a way to execute this on a pilot basis? This needs to be done with a small scope first with support of few amenable MLA/MPs and tell a story of the change driven by people using this method.

Can we identify the following to take this forward:
[*] A particular geography and representatives that may be amenable to such an idea
[*] A few potential issues that can be addressed in a easier to communicate and acceptable to all stakeholders
[*] A campaign to make public aware of this new simple tool that can impact their lives
[*] Initial assessment of the cost for this campaign
[*] Identification and enrollment of sympathetic media outlets or alternate media/websites that would disseminate this idea, the impact and empowerment tis idea is able to drive
[*]Infrastructure (website or a timeslot in TV channels) to expand the scope of this idea

What support do you/we need towards this so some of us can pitch in with help?

Let me see if I can muster courage to start another thread on this topic.

======

saip wrote:The jury system was abolished in India after the Nanavathi trial as it was felt the jury could easily be swayed. Event at that time I do not think the jury was accused of corruption but simply of bias because of the social status of the accused and the community they belonged to (accused a Parsi and the victim a jain(?) ). But today everyone knows who the judge is and as he is only one, it is easy to influence/corrupt him.

True. Judges are as corrupt as traffic policemen or any govt employees. Which is why anti-Jury people want judge system to go on. Details are in chap-21 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm . And Navavati case was excuse. In reality, PM and SCjs killed JurySys to protect landlords of India. The Juries were giving judgments against goons hired by landlords and so land reforms had started moving since 1950s.

VikasRaina : Are our MP's and MLA's so disconnected from reality that we need to send them SMS to remind them about how we feel and if Yes then what an SMS is going to do if a political leader doesnot know what his constituents are thinking ? I mean if public opinion could shake our worthies, MMS ji and his whole cabinet would have resigned by now but alas we are dealing with this animal who is more thick skinned than a rhino.

Satya_anveshi : Point is about continuous public participation and feedback in the affairs not just vote once and forget. The problems you refer to are a direct consequence of politicians thinking that they are safe until next elections when they can buy people off just once. SMS idea that RM ji is suggesting provides one low cost method to provide feedback. If carefully managed, this idea could be very useful where politicians will have to willing/publicly share their cell phone #s and policy can be made to not even charge such SMSs and have statistics made publicly available etc.

Satya Avneshi,

India has 80 crore voters. So when 40 crore voters send same order to MPs via SMS to print a specific law, it effectively becomes "effective binding" on PM, and that law will get printed. And a voter may use SMS to provid efeedback, but my suggestion to 80 crore voters is to DIRECTLY send necessary orders to MPs via SMS. MPs need orders , not feedback. eg do you want 5th accused in delhi case to be hanged? Then pls send order to your MP via SMS to reduce juvenile age to 16 years effective 1-jan-2010. Sending such order is your constitutional and dharmic duty. I see not much need to send him feedback.

Dear All,

As much as I would like to reply on posts on Jury System, "voters dharmic duty to send necessary orders to MPs via SMS to save India" etc , pls note that if I answer them, then the anti-PM-elements will gang up and accuse me of thread derailing. Ever since I arrived on BR in year 2001, anti-RM-elements have started watching all threads 24*7 basis . So I cant reply.

For Jury System, pls see chap-21 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm

harbans wrote:+1 Vikas! Plus we must integrate the inevitability of a Jury system becoming a quota system: Out of 10, 2 will be Seculars, 2 Dalit, 3 OBC/ST/SC,2 General category and 1 Human rights activist/ Jholawalla types.

OST

VikasRaina wrote:Are our MP's and MLA's so disconnected from reality that we need to send them SMS to remind them about how we feel and if Yes then what an SMS is going to do if a political leader doesnot know what his constituents are thinking ? I mean if public opinion could shake our worthies, MMS ji and his whole cabinet would have resigned by now but alas we are dealing with this animal who is more thick skinned than a rhino. Bringing back jury system is great but knowing how Indian public sways, it could set up dangerous implications. Tell me how many Jury members would have thrown Sanjay Dutt (or Salman Khan or Saif Ali Khan or Sant Asaram ji etc.) in Jail. I dont think we as a country are fit to have jury system yet. Fact remains that we are too corrupt and emotional a society to deal with such western concepts of Jury system.

OST. I agree that we Indians are inferior to Gora. Only Gora can have JurySys, we cant. Maybe, I should send SMS to Rockefellar to come and rule over us again. Well, Rockefellar is already on its way.

venug wrote:I don't know much about the advantages of jury system, may be the fate is decided by a group rather than an individual, but it too might not be perfect either...I am sure you know about wrongful convictions of many people mainly blacks in the US, then there is a jury selection process, most potential jurors are eliminated or kept purely on some basis of bias that is assumed to play a role in judgement anyway...this is in US...now this system will be rigged in India. I would prefer a dispassionate judge over biased jury any day.

OST. We can also ask God to put stamp on each new born's forehead if he is dispassionate or corrupt or nepotic. For Jury System, pls see chap-21 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 12 Oct 2013 08:36

moved my post to "your dharmic duty to send SMS" dhaga created by RM ji in GDF.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Oct 2013 08:49

Can we take all this discussion to some other thread so that we continue to monitor thread specific news. TIA.

To MODs

Can we shift all these relevant discussion , yet OT in this thread, to appropriate threads .

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Oct 2013 09:56

RM,

Yes, raising the juvenile age had unintended consequences in the case of Delhi rape and murder of J. If the implementation of the law is wrong does not mean the law itself is wrong.

However there is a good reason to keep the Juvenile age at 18 and also to keep them out of police custody., have you ever thought of rape of juveniles by police?

Imagine a 17 year old male in police custody for 2 days. The kid can be beaten (first thing and now very normal), molested (always happens), raped (happens), tortured (does happen) and sodomy (rarely happens)., so now pick your choice - increase in love jihad vs. protecting a population from the keepers of law themselves.

Since the love jihad is personal (yes, it happens, but it is not illegal) vs. closing the window itself on some vulnerable population to be beaten, molested, raped, tortured (it is definitely illegal, but closing the window is easier than retraining the police force) which one would you pick? Simple increase the juvenile age limit and send them to remand home rather than police custody.

I think increasing the juvenile age itself prevented several not highlighted cases of beatings, molestation, rape, torture and sodomy. So it is worth it.

Now coming back to Delhi case, nobody expected the judge to be lenient. Of course the punishment is not commiserate with the crime and that is a loophole that needs to be fixed.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Oct 2013 12:00

disha wrote:RM,

Yes, raising the juvenile age had unintended consequences in the case of Delhi rape and murder of J. If the implementation of the law is wrong does not mean the law itself is wrong.

However there is a good reason to keep the Juvenile age at 18 and also to keep them out of police custody., have you ever thought of rape of juveniles by police?

Imagine a 17 year old male in police custody for 2 days. The kid can be beaten (first thing and now very normal), molested (always happens), raped (happens), tortured (does happen) and sodomy (rarely happens)., so now pick your choice - increase in love jihad vs. protecting a population from the keepers of law themselves.

Since the love jihad is personal (yes, it happens, but it is not illegal) vs. closing the window itself on some vulnerable population to be beaten, molested, raped, tortured (it is definitely illegal, but closing the window is easier than retraining the police force) which one would you pick? Simple increase the juvenile age limit and send them to remand home rather than police custody.

I think increasing the juvenile age itself prevented several not highlighted cases of beatings, molestation, rape, torture and sodomy. So it is worth it.

Now coming back to Delhi case, nobody expected the judge to be lenient. Of course the punishment is not commiserate with the crime and that is a loophole that needs to be fixed.

We are mixing issues.

Policemen beat criminals because we dont have Jury System over policemen. In UK, policemen used to beat criminals and it started decreasing only in 950 AD when Coronor's Jury System came. So custodial violence should reduce, and solution is NOT to raise juvenile age but to print Jury System over Policemen draft in Gazette. (see chap-21 for JurySys and chap-22 for JurySy over policemen) . So pls order your MP via SMS to print Jury System draft in Gazette, if you want custodial violence to decrease.

Love Jihad sometimes non-violent, but often involves crimes like harassment , abduction, forceful confinement, rape, beating girl's bothers, beating girl's father etc. A defiant girl after may agree after some violence. And brothers/fathers may need a beating before they back off. Now these crimes carry punishment of 3 years to 10 years for adults. And 17 years is the ideal age as thats the age girls leave school and enter college and thats the age boys also enter college and meet girls. But 17 years old lads were scared of doing all these crimes due to high punishment. So Saudi Arabian lobby wanted juvenile age to increase to 18 years, and an assurance that no matter what crimes the young lad does, no matter how many time he does, the law will not imprison him for over 3 years. So that that 17 years old lad can freely commit all these crimes with lesser fear in mind. And ABV did what Saudi Arabian lobby asked and raised juvenile age to 18 years in year 2001 AD and ABV wrote that max punishment will be below 3 years. Arun Shourie and Arun Jetley were main scribes of that law.

The punishment in delhi case is as per the law. The JJA-2001 act as passed by ABV makes max punishment 3 years no matter how many crime the young lad does and how serious are those crimes. So as I see it, the problem is the law itself, not implementation of law.

Anyway, do YOU want this Amar Akbar Anthony (name changed) to be hanged or do YOU think 3 years is enough? I want him to be hanged. And so I have ordered my MP via SMS to treat him as adult. If you thnk 3 years is enough, then you may leave the matter. If you wish him to be hanged, then pls send necessary order to your MP via SMS

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Oct 2013 12:24

Of course the punishment should be severe - including hanging. And the judge went by juvenile age based on SSC certificate. That is not same as birth certificate. For one army chief, it was not enough evidence for a murder that is enough evidence! So where is law and where is the implementation of law!!

You and me know that SSC certificate is not on par with birth certificate. Anyway., coming to the point of raising age - introducing Jury is one of the solution and should be looked into. In the meantime there are other soln.

And if there are illegal things happening because of "love jihad" than that is illegal thing - the girl does have lot of power as per Indian law!

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 12 Oct 2013 12:57

disha wrote:1. Of course the punishment should be severe - including hanging. And the judge went by juvenile age based on SSC certificate. That is not same as birth certificate. For one army chief, it was not enough evidence for a murder that is enough evidence! So where is law and where is the implementation of law!! You and me know that SSC certificate is not on par with birth certificate. Anyway., coming to the point of raising age - introducing Jury is one of the solution and should be looked into. In the meantime there are other soln.

2. And if there are illegal things happening because of "love jihad" than that is illegal thing - the girl does have lot of power as per Indian law!

1. I think JJA says that SSC certificate is the proof. And AAA = Amar Akbar Anthony, name changed, had no birth certificate. Bone tests leave a range of 6 months to 1 year. Higher Court judges said no to bone test and went by school ceritficate. And there are many many cases where criminals are juvenile by all means. In fact, some stats say that some 35% of serious crimes against women cases are by juveniles between 16 years and 18 years.

2. The JJA protects criminals in those illegal actions. First max punishment is 3 years. The juvenile board had 3 members --- one judge and two social workers who are mostly "secular" and "liberals" !! So in most case, as per JJA-lawyers I meet , punishment even for serious crimes like abduction, rape and forceful marriages are as low as one year. All this makes love jehadies between 16 years and 18 years very bold.

Anyway, let me know what options you think we have to get this AAA hanged. Because if AAA is not hanged ASAP, I see more criminals coming and more victims falling. Pls note that AAA was cruelest of all six, and the death mainly happened due to him. Without him, poor gal could have been alive. The gal not only identified AAA, but expressed the desire that AAA should be burnt alive. I wish her wish comes true, but for now, I will settle for hanging AAA.

Amen !!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Oct 2013 13:25

Brutality can't be sole criteria for terming case as 'rarest of rare', awarding death: SC

The brutality of a murder or the age-old concept of 'an eye for an eye' cannot be grounds for terming a case as 'rarest of rare' and awarding death penalty, the Supreme Court has held while commuting to life term the capital punishment awarded to a man for a triple murder.

A bench comprising justices H L Dattu, S J Mukhopadhaya and M Y Eqbal made the observation while cautioning courts to act with utmost responsibility when awarding death penalty as it is the exception and life sentence is the rule.

"In a civilised society, a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye ought not to be the criterion to clothe a case with rarest of the rare jacket and the courts must not be propelled by such notions in a haste resorting to capital punishment...

"Our criminal jurisprudence cautions the courts of law to act with utmost responsibility by analysing the finest strands of the matter and it is in that perspective a reasonable proportion has to be maintained between the brutality of the crime and the punishment," the bench said.

While modifying the trial court verdict awarding death to the appellant, Gudda alias Dwarikendra, which was upheld by the Madhya Pradesh High Court, the bench said, "We cannot lose sight of the fact that brutality also cannot be the only criterion for determining whether a case falls under the rarest of rare categories.

"The degree of brutality has to be ascertained in contrast with other cases and the criteria and the tests laid down (by the apex court in other cases)."

It said while awarding death, the courts should have due regard to the nature of offence so that "the punishment is not disproportionately severe or manifestly inadequate".

Dwarikendra had been convicted and awarded capital punishment for stabbing to death a man, his pregnant wife and their five-year-old son after inviting them to his home for lunch.

This is paki logic. With due respect to Justices.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Oct 2013 14:49

KOLKATA: The three men who stopped a taxi on Canal West Road at gunpoint, got inside a cab and tried to molest two bar singers on their way home told police that they attempted to "strike a friendship" with the women as they wanted to "have some fun".

A day after the three were sent to four days' police custody, sleuths claim they appeared remorseless.

"The three men said they had spotted the two women on a lonely stretch. They felt they would easily be able to strike up a conversation with them as they believed that no 'ordinary girl' would otherwise use this stretch so late in the night. It is the same old mentality of looking at women as available and gullible," said an investigating officer who is part of the investigating team.

Read: Cabby held at gunpoint, biker molests women

According to the cops, the accused - Mohd Dulera alias Tipu (21), Mohd Aslam alias Sunny (23) and Mohd Hasnain (21) - had left their homes late on Sunday evening on a bike, with the intention of drinking and "enjoying a night out".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... ttarget=no

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 20 Oct 2013 18:30

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/gujarat-poli ... 3-238.html

Gujarat police launches mobile phone helpline for women

Gujarat police on Friday launched its most ambitious emergency response system - 'Help Emergency Assistance Rescue Terminal' (HEART) - a helpline which would enable women to seek immediate help of police through mobile phones in times of emergency. "Through this one step solution system our aim is to reduce the response time of the police to provide help to those women or girls who are in distress," Ahmedabad Joint Police Commissioner (headquarters) Sanjay Srivastav told reporters in Ahmedabad on Friday. HEART has been assigned a toll free number - 1091 on which, any women, who urgently need police assistance, can call either from their mobile or a landline and within minutes police assistance will reach her. "The victim does not need to speak.

Once it presses the speed dial key or call the toll free number, HEART immediately searches the location and sends it to the nearest police mobile van, which will rush to the spot in no time," said Ruzan Khambatta, with whose company WizzoTech, the state government has tied up for the project. "Any girl or woman, who feels threatened does not even require to wait for somebody to pick up the phone nor she requires to speak with anybody," she said. Initially, the new system would be operated in Ahmedabad on a pilot basis, before being tried in other parts of the state. "We will encourage maximum number of women and girls to register with HEART either through website or by filling out registration forms from any citizen help centres," said Ajay Tomar, Joint Commissioner of Police (Sector-1).

Gujarat police launches mobile phone helpline for women HEART has been assigned a toll free number - 1091 on which, any women can call from mobile or a landline and within minutes police assistance will reach her. Registration forms will be made available in Gujarati and Hindi languages, in which anyone can put maximum ten contact numbers so that police can simultaneously send messages to those numbers and inform them, he said. To a question, Srivastav said they were training policemen to sensitise them about gender violence and women in distress. "We have just completed training up to police sub- inspector level and very shortly we will start training police inspectors, DCPs and higher officers," he said.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Oct 2013 07:28

The Good Men of India
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/opini ... share&_r=0

BANGALORE, India — IN India today, the rapes of women, from children to grandmothers, are daily news. Frothy television programs on sentimentalized family values are interrupted by advertisements for a new smartphone app: VithU, which allows women in danger, at a double press of a power button, to send an S O S alert with their location to predesignated friends and family members.Universities are debating requiring students to abandon jeans and adopt formal dress codes, as though the trappings of civilization are needed to hold at bay the anarchy of sexual violence. Twelve-year-old schoolgirls are attending rape awareness seminars, in a death of innocence.
Indian cities are awash with feral men, untethered from their distant villages, divorced from family and social structure, fighting poverty, exhausted, denied access to regular female companionship, adrift on powerful tides of alcohol and violent *****, newly exposed to the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence — and not able to respond to any of it in a safe, civilized manner. This is the world of women under siege, the medieval world of the walking undead, the rise of the zombies, targeting females rich and poor. For women, at least, winter is coming.
In this context, it might appear odd to examine any other variant of the Indian male. But it is important to do so and to do so now. To bear witness to an alternate male reality that also pervades India on a daily basis.

This is what I witnessed on a recent flight from Kolkata to Bangalore. The plane was typical of budget air travel: full of businessmen and mothers. The smart flight attendants were young men. The pilot, captain of the flight deck, was a woman. This is not an uncommon combination in India these days. I was struck instead by the behavior of the male passengers.In most countries, a woman clambering aboard a plane with a fretful infant and turning a crowded row of six into a de facto row of seven is usually met with hostility. Here, every other row seemed larded with these women and their babies. But those stuffy Indian businessmen — men of middle management, dodging bottles and diaper bags and carelessly flung toys — they didn’t grumble. Instead, up and down the plane, I saw them helping. Holding babies so that mothers could eat. Burping infants and entertaining toddlers. Not because they knew these women, but because being concerned and engaged was their normal mode of social behavior. So, I will say this — Indian men can also be among the kindest in the world.

Women know this. When I asked my friends and acquaintances — both Indian and expatriate — about their perceptions of Indian men, they mentioned intelligence, wit and a reverence for learning. Others described gregarious partners who knew how to relax and enjoy themselves. All of them talked about commitment and caring. One said, “I love that he is deeply concerned about his parents.” An Englishwoman said of her long-term Indian partner, “He makes me feel cherished and taken care of in a manner I never experienced in the U.K.” Another said of her father, “He supported my mother through their marriage, through her job, with the kids, her health, everything.” A 16-year-old schoolgirl echoed this: “You feel safe with them. No matter what, they will see you home safely.”
Strong familial commitment is not a phenomenon restricted to the urban middle classes. Migrant laborers care for wives and children, and still send money home to their parents. The young woman who was gang-raped on a New Delhi bus on Dec. 16 had a village-raised father who supported her ardently. This part of the story is so unsurprising, it rarely makes the news.Let me introduce the Common Indian Male, a category that deserves taxonomic recognition: committed, concerned, cautious; intellectually curious, linguistically witty; socially gregarious, endearingly awkward; quick to laugh, slow to anger. Frequently spotted in domestic circles, traveling in a family herd. He has been sighted in sari shops and handbag stores, engaged in debating his spouse’s selection with the sons and daughters who trail behind. There is, apparently, no domestic decision that is not worthy of his involvement.

There is a telling phrase that best captures the Indian man in a relationship — whether as lover, parent or friend: not “I love you” but “Main hoon na.” It translates to “I’m here for you” but is better explained as a hug of commitment — “Never fear, I’m here.” These are men for whom commitment is a joy, a duty and a deep moral anchor.At its excessive worst, this sensibility can produce annoyances: a sentimentalized addiction to Mummy; concern that becomes judgmental and stifling; and a proud or oversensitive emotional landscape.But when it is at its best, the results, in women’s lives, speak for themselves. If the image of the Indian female as victim is true, so, too, is its converse: the Indian woman who coexists as a strong survivor, as conqueror, as worshiped goddess made flesh. Indian women have served as prime minister and president. They head banks and large corporations. They are formidable politicians, religious heads, cultural icons, judges, athletes and even godmothers of Crime ( Political) Modern India has a muscular democracy and a growing economy, both of which have significantly transformed the lives of women. But female success, in a place like India with complicated social structures and a tradition of the Old Uncle Network, doesn’t happen in isolation. A successful woman is very likely to have had a supportive male in her life: a father, a spouse, a friend, a mentor.For his part, the Indian male, when nested in family and community, is part of a domestic tapestry that is intricately woven and vital, it seems, to his own sense of well-being. Take that away from him, hurl him away — and a possible result is a man unmoored, lost, adrift and, potentially, a danger to himself and to his world. Disconnection causes social disengagement and despair — and the behavior that is the product of alienation and despair.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 21 Oct 2013 22:38

The amount of khujli this article has created amongst the apologists is unbelievable, even while tons of people are sharing this article on twitter and facebook.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Oct 2013 22:58

^ We have our left lib's that for anything positive they must say nay take out chains and start self flagellating..even if untruth has to be spread, idiotic comparisons made. Have they talked about Toilets in this too?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2013 23:26

Hindu

Andhra Pradesh stats

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Oct 2013 02:11

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/world ... .html?_r=0
Dangers Come With Freedom for Indian Women

NEW DELHI — Often, after I have finished thrashing through a notebook to find quotations on some episode in the news, I put it on the shelf with a sneaking feeling that a different story is still there in its pages — something harder to put my finger on, but probably more important.o it is with violence against women in India. This is the theme sucking up all the oxygen this year, as we approach the anniversary of a gang rape on a bus in New Delhi. As a newcomer to India, I covered the death sentences handed down to four defendants in that crime (“Phansi do! Phansi do!” — which translates as “Hang them! Hang them!” — was the first full phrase I learned in Hindi). This week, I pieced together the disparate perspectives on another gang rape, this one in Mumbai.
It is a dark picture, I know.
But often when I return from a reporting trip, my overriding impression is of something completely different. Talking to Indian women on roadsides and in courtyards, in cities and in villages, I am struck by how swiftly they are expanding their freedoms. Conservative village elders may be searching for a way to slow that process — hence sporadic attempts, in some places, to keep blue jeans and mobile phones, those telltale signs of modernity, away from young women. The influence of village elders is diluted, however, when young people move into cities, and that is what much of India is doing. The whole country is changing at once.
“It’s changing so rapidly that it’s not even generational anymore, it’s changing within a generation,” is the way a colleague put it to me in a recent conversation. We were taking a breath, exhausted by a long conversation about violence and the more prosaic problem of how women can reach home safely after the end of the workday. I had already put away my notebook. But this, of course, was the flip side of the same conversation. New dangers are arising because women are expanding their perimeter. Signs of this are everywhere.
One story, unused, from my notebook: Rajkala Kanwar married into her husband’s family, from the conservative Jat caste in the farming state of Haryana, understanding that she would occupy a subservient position. She, like her mother before her, would spend her youth under the authority of her mother-in-law, who would ensure that the younger woman never left the house without permission or failed to cover her head with the sheer scarf, or purdah, designed to spare older men the “disrespect” of seeing her face. “We lived in fear,” said Ms. Kanwar, 60, remembering. Her husband, Ram, 70, nodded: “All this cruelty toward women,” he said, “was by women.” That power dynamic has changed. Ms. Kanwar smiled at the notion that she could maintain such a stranglehold over her sons’ wives — they simply have too much leverage. If she tried to impose the same kind of restrictions, she said, her daughters-in-law would move to the city, taking her sons and grandchildren with them. So Ms. Kanwar, a practical woman, decided to remove purdah as a requirement for her daughters-in-law, and to stop wearing it herself. And, just like that, an old stricture was gone. “It was difficult,” she said. “My mother, my grandmother, they used to do it. My mother-in-law and her mother-in-law, they were doing it.”
A generation ago, women in much of rural India spent their lives behind closed doors. Economic changes mean that women are flowing into India’s public spaces, even in small cities and towns. My colleague Hari Kumar, a reporter in India for 20 years, recalls a time when, outside the large cities, the women one saw outside the home were mostly schoolteachers. But the economic overhauls of the early 1990s set off a major expansion of India’s service sector, jobs like health, communication and education, banking and information technology. As the sector expanded to around 60 percent of India’s gross domestic product from 40 percent, millions of Indian women began earning their own money — and spending it. Girls are routinely outperforming boys at the state board examinations that serve as the gateway to prestigious universities. Of course, that information is of limited use to the woman who needs a safe way home at the end of a workday. We live in the short term; it will always command more surface area on the pages of newspapers. But there is a thrill in realizing that, somewhere beyond the fits and starts and backfires that make up our news cycle, there is a great engine that has begun to turn.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Oct 2013 02:32

Above article is hogwash. Its mullah type thinking being published in NYT!
She should cover the Taliban type countries.

Danger is not due to freedom of women. Its due to lack of punishment for the perpetrators.