Bharat Rakshak

kiranA wrote:

A_Gupta wrote:Sorry, KiranA, all the disruption due to demonetization is the responsibility of those who made the black economy in India in the first place.

When termites attack a house here, the people have to leave, the house is enclosed in a tent, and the termite poisons are released. Yes, people are inconvenienced.

You are in the position of the termites complaining about the people who were inconvenienced.
Don't be a righteous termite!

So you do admit there was disruption and there was suffering. This is not what your implied before in the previous post. What do you mean I am in position of termites because i complain about sufferings (DEATHS not "inconvenienced" - the righteous heartlessness is amazing! - Don't be that)?

No the suffering is clearly on the hands of the incompetent, venal govt and bureacracy. they know who are black money hoarders (they themselves are), they can raid them , they can catch them but they are too corrupt to do it. Instead they attacked the millions who kept that now worthless toilet paper because they believed in the sanctity of the promise "I promise to pay the bearer ...".

limits placed on cash withdrawals from ATMs stand withdrawn from Feb 1. However, the weekly withdrawal limit of Rs 24,000 will continue. The central bank also said that all limits on current account and overdraft accounts stand withdrawn with immediate effect. The RBI, however, allowed the banks to maintain their discretion on own operating limits.

On a review of the pace of remonetisation, it has been decided to partially restore status quo ante,”

rahulm wrote: RBI Is injecting more cash liquidity into the system. This move is retrograde as it will slow the transition to epayments by businesses and encourage the black economy. It's timing, less than a week before the poll means it could be a poll sop.

Banks expect cash withdrawal restrictions to ease from mid-February, especially for people engaged in business. However, some believe that the government may advise the Reserve Bank of India against lifting the restrictions completely before the assembly elections in five states including Uttar Pradesh and Punjab conclude in mid-March.

ANIVerified account
‏@ANI_news
IT Dept attached 42 properties during the last few days, issued 87 notices under prohibition of Benami property transaction Act: IT sources
2:16 PM - 30 Jan 2017 from New Delhi, India

A_Gupta wrote:

rahulm wrote: RBI Is injecting more cash liquidity into the system. This move is retrograde as it will slow the transition to epayments by businesses and encourage the black economy. It's timing, less than a week before the poll means it could be a poll sop.

Contrast with this news-item:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/mar ... 867947.cms
RBI may lift cash withdrawal caps but govt could scuttle plan

Banks expect cash withdrawal restrictions to ease from mid-February, especially for people engaged in business. However, some believe that the government may advise the Reserve Bank of India against lifting the restrictions completely before the assembly elections in five states including Uttar Pradesh and Punjab conclude in mid-March.

Singha wrote:Rush in blr to use gift deed to spread property to family ahead of property card aystem being started. ...plus any bensmi heat from center

habal wrote:
this is a govt with really lofty ambitions. Remove cash withdrawal cap after UP elections so that the playing field is tilted towards ruling party. This is the height of BJPs imagination.

this was main objective of demonitisation from get go. It was entirely a political stunt. When is the next main election ? GJ on Jan 18 and KA on May 18, ₹2000/₹500 will be banned on that date and some new fangled note will be issued 'in drip feed' to only those a/c holders who say 'vande' to bank teller.

pankajs wrote:

Singha wrote:Rush in blr to use gift deed to spread property to family ahead of property card aystem being started. ...plus any bensmi heat from center

That still leaves a trail all nicely documented via deeds. Wife/children can explain the gift but the husband/father/mother will have to account for the original purchase. At least that is how I see it.

Supratik wrote:@habal,

Withdrawal limit is being lifted from Feb 1.

In the days and weeks following Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s announcement withdrawing Rs. 500 and Rs. 1,000 bank notes, prophets of doom rose in chorus: the end, they said, is nigh.

Former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh declared in parliament that India’s GDP in fiscal 2017 would plunge by 2 per cent. He added darkly that the implementation of demonetisation reflected “monumental mismanagement ”.

Former Finance Minister P. Chidambaram was even more scathing. He appeared on a series of television shows to warn that bank liquidity would take “seven months” to normalise.

Dr. Manmohan Singh and P. Chidambaram have, for the better part of two decades, run the Indian economy in one capacity or the other. How accurate has their assessment of the impact of demonetisation proved?

Not very. To be fair, both Dr. Singh and Chidambaram were right to describe the implementation of demonetisation and remonetisation as deeply flawed. But their assessment of the economic impact of withdrawal of high denomination bank notes was wrong.

Here’s why. Aditya Puri, Managing Director and CEO of HDFC Bank, is the epitome of rectitude. He runs one of the most successful and professional banks in the country. His views on the after-effects of demonetisation are thoughtful and precise:

“The transitory and long-term effect should be viewed separately. The transitory pain is largely behind us. Increase in deposits has brought down interest rates. The process of digitisation has been speeded up by three to five years. This will increase transparency, reduce rent seeking, improve financial inclusion and reduce costs. Now, we have 4 lakh point of sales (PoS) terminals, compared with 2.9 lakh pre-demonitisation. Card swipes have gone up by 300 per cent. We feel excessive pessimism is not warranted. We spoke to top executives across industry from Reliance and Mahindra Finance to Birla Finance, ITC, HUL, Pidilife, Marico and even Jaguar. The response was the same – recovery has been far more V-shaped than they expected. Activity is close to normal and there is general expectation of recovery in this quarter.”

Suraj wrote:

kiranA wrote:
A woman suffers for childbirth because there is a clear realisible benefit of that suffering - the birth of her child.

So what ??!! Childbirth causes DEATHS! It's not an inconvenience!! It should be banned!

Sounds silly ? Yeah, that's because that's how YOU sound when you try to dance around talking about deaths and demonetization.

You don't like the demonetization act ? Fine. It inconvenienced you. It affected business plans maybe. You think it's unfair that government is corrupt. Regardless, everyone's black money became equally useless on Nov 8 2016.

kiranA wrote:And its own promise " To pay the bearer". And despite such massive suffering there is nothing to show for it .

Your opinion. Not a fact. This thread has shown repeatedly that those who squeal loudest and resort to the most histrionics typically end up admitting they had their own fingers burnt.

kiranA wrote:I did not say using black money is good. But its clear many people who may have black money are very productive people and extremely useful to society. Not paying tax is ofcourse a crime but its not a sin.

It's not your choice to decide whether or not it's a sin. When a person chooses to avoid paying taxes or disclosing income, they have no further claim to asserting what the nature of their act is, or making up definitions of crime and sin as you go along.

The most respectable position you can take is to assert that you concealed income or didn't pay taxes because you fundamentally feel the government will mismanage it, and that you are willing to accept the consequences of that action. That means you're willing to accept the burden of punishment for your act to make your point. Any further verbal embellishment of your actions is an insult to other peoples' intelligence. If you want to receive *some* respect, just say you broke the law because you believe the law to be unfair. Even I can respect a person to an extent for being willing to accept the consequences of his voluntary choice in order to make a point. But don't run around saying nonsense like how someone died standing in a line therefore DeMo is bad, or 'crime but not a sin'. That sort of noise gets people banned.

habal wrote:

A_Gupta wrote:
Contrast with this news-item:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/mar ... 867947.cms
RBI may lift cash withdrawal caps but govt could scuttle plan

this is a govt with really lofty ambitions. Remove cash withdrawal cap after UP elections so that the playing field is tilted towards ruling party. This is the height of BJPs imagination.

this was main objective of demonitisation from get go. It was entirely a political stunt. When is the next main election ? GJ on Jan 18 and KA on May 18, ₹2000/₹500 will be banned on that date and some new fangled note will be issued 'in drip feed' to only those a/c holders who say 'vande' to bank teller.

kiranA wrote: I voluntarily withdraw from this thread until YOU apologize to me for disgracefully attempting to slander my personal integrity.

hanumadu wrote:

kiranA wrote: I voluntarily withdraw from this thread until YOU apologize to me for disgracefully attempting to slander my personal integrity.

Yeah, Right.
I guess we got rid of you then.

Shaktimaan wrote:Saars, after the cash ban a grocery store near me in Mumbai started accepting Paytm payments sometime in December. Yesterday, he told me he had stopped accepting Paytm and was now back to 100 percent cash. The end of the cash squeeze also means the end of cashless transactions for many people.

What is the long term way to pressurize people towards cashless? I hope the Union Budget shows the way tomorrow.

kiranA wrote: I have been a source of pride to whoever surrounded me - whether parents, college or colleagues. You wont get more upright citizen than me.

Pathik wrote:

kiranA wrote: I have been a source of pride to whoever surrounded me - whether parents, college or colleagues. You wont get more upright citizen than me.

kiranA wrote:I havent lost a paisa due to demon. I havent broken a law anywhere. I dont have a dime in "black money". I did my engg in IIT and mba(major in finance) from very reputed institute. I have been a source of pride to whoever surrounded me - whether parents, college or colleagues. You wont get more upright citizen than me.

I dont recall any place where my personal integrity was questioned or slandered like here , an accomplished Indian, in a forum labelled "bharat rakshak".

I ignored initial taunts as I was naive enough to think that eventually you as moderator will involve on behalf of me as such personal slander is unfit for civilized debate. But I was wrong and I had enough harassment. I voluntarily withdraw from this thread until YOU apologize to me for disgracefully attempting to slander my personal integrity.

habal wrote:next week RBI will start accepting old notes once again, for limited time. Details are unclear whether old notes have to be submitted to your bank or direct to RBI. Further details are awaited.

tandav wrote:So what is actually the total amount of demonetized money that have been deposited with the RBI after the the DEMO exercise?

I havent lost a paisa due to demon. I havent broken a law anywhere. I dont have a dime in "black money". I did my engg in IIT and mba(major in finance) from very reputed institute. I have been a source of pride to whoever surrounded me - whether parents, college or colleagues. You wont get more upright citizen than me.

I dont recall any place where my personal integrity was questioned or slandered like here , an accomplished Indian, in a forum labelled "bharat rakshak".

I ignored initial taunts as I was naive enough to think that eventually you as moderator will involve on behalf of me as such personal slander is unfit for civilized debate. But I was wrong and I had enough harassment. I voluntarily withdraw from this thread until YOU apologize to me for disgracefully attempting to slander my personal integrity.

Onus is on those to provide data to prove that the cash component is more than 5% of the black assets, that eliminating cash would eliminate the black economy.

Suraj wrote:

Onus is on those to provide data to prove that the cash component is more than 5% of the black assets, that eliminating cash would eliminate the black economy.

That's so easy to prove. It's been proven multiple times and you just ignore it.

Lets say you are a BMer who owns a set of palatial homes and other property all obtained using black money. You have very little cash. Less than 5%, or whatever number you want to throw out. Doesn't matter what the number is - pick what you like.

Post demo, you have no cash and need liquidity. Tell us how you're going to sell into a market where:
a) there are no cash buyers with the volume of cash involved (remember all black money assets can only be transacted in cash)
b) sell to a white buyer and explain the purchase price to the tax man to pay capital gains, without any record, or a ridiculously lowballed white price for lowering property taxes.
c) GoI has Benami Act radar upon you
d) Once govt finds that you're sitting on a fat collection of properties, how you're going to avoid 50% penalty + 25% into PMGKY for 4-5 years.

You talk about assets and values. An assets that's not on the market has no notional value. An asset that cannot be sold or is hard to sell without penalty, has no relation to its mark-to-market value. In fact, every person holding a black asset, whether land, gold or forex, now has to deal with lack of a liquid black economy to sell into. Which means their valuations fall. When valuations fall, the proportion of cash to asset base rises, because the assets are worth less. People talk about 'black assets'. Excuse me, but an asset you cannot sell or transact without incriminating yourself and being subject to 50% minimum penalty, is in fact, a liability.

Sachin wrote:

habal wrote:next week RBI will start accepting old notes once again, for limited time. Details are unclear whether old notes have to be submitted to your bank or direct to RBI. Further details are awaited.

Sir, where did you get this information from?? Is it from http://www.mathrubhumi.com by any chance? This news paper (started by freedom fighters of KL) is now in the hands of a political pimp, and the quality of the reports generally prove that. Checked with SHQ, she has not seen any new circular about old notes being accepted. At least in her branch, life is now back to 100% normal.

Sachin wrote: But when I see NaMo on TV these days, the body language does not look very positive. Let us see how the budget session goes on. I think the session starts from today, with the actual budget being tabled tomorrow.

habal wrote:

Sachin wrote: But when I see NaMo on TV these days, the body language does not look very positive. Let us see how the budget session goes on. I think the session starts from today, with the actual budget being tabled tomorrow.

ok, last saw Mr. Modi on TV @ republic day. Got very negative feedback. He had body language of a person whi trusts none, not even Manohar Parikkar. There was palpable friction between him and parikkar. Usually during UPA, def min AKA used to sign at register and receive dignitaries including PM. The then PM used to stand behind DefMin. But this time it was all ulta. Modi signed, Modi received, Modi did salute at AJJ, Modi received Chief Guest, Modi waved off Chief Guest, Modi did a small walk around for crowd. All Modi show, no space for Parikkar or anyone else. During all this time, he was walking with glum face with very negative body language and fully intent on sidelining anyone who would come close to sharing his limelight. This guy doesn't like to share anything. All glory is mine alone, types.

Parikkar at times looked sideways at Modi, but Modi doesn't bat an eyelid. Felt sorry for Parikkar. Next day news came that he may go back to Goa.

asgkhan wrote:Black money is not eliminated. In my construction travails, bribery rates have gone up 2x 3x because the AE/JE/Afsar had a loss due to demonitisation process. So we are back to square one.