Bharat Rakshak

The chutzpah of pointing out reliability of Russia, a week after loading up Pakis with 400millions worth of F16 spares.

Fire up EAM Jaishankar! This needs another epic beating

He is busy slapping Turkey for raking up Kashmir again at UNGA, but he'll get around to it I'm sure !

Dilbu wrote:US in talks with India about rethinking reliance on Russian arms and energy

The United States is in “deep” talks with India over its reliance on Russian arms and energy, a US State Department official said Tuesday, in a development that could further isolate Moscow on the international stage.

Russia “is no longer a reliable weapons supplier” and Indian representatives are “coming to understand that there could be real benefits for them (in finding other markets),” the official told reporters in New York.

“India is heavily, heavily dependent on Russia, and that’s something that they did to themselves over some 40 years: first their military and then their energy dependence,” the official said. “So we have been in deep conversation with India about the fact that we want to help them have options to diversify here.”

CNN has contacted India’s Ministry of External Affairs, but did not receive a response.

Is this really a news or hiding something else - like a threat - you are with us or against us?

g.sarkar wrote:Ramanaji and Cyranoji,
Thank you Sirs for your kind thoughts. Much appreciated.
Gautam

Gautam ji

Let me join Ramana and Cyrano gaarlu. The links you post are great - the sources and the content.

fanne wrote: Is this really a news or hiding something else - like a threat - you are with us or against us?

Whatever it may be, India should call US bluff.

India cannot let Russia go into China camp fully. Also, Russia needs to remain as a power, as counter weight to US and EU. Strategically it would be pretty bad for india to lose Russia.

Also, what kind of power are you trying to be, if you wilt at the first instance of a threat?

Vayutuvan wrote: Gautam ji
Let me join Ramana and Cyrano gaarlu. The links you post are great - the sources and the content.

Thank you Sir. I really appreciate that.
Gautam

India was wary of US for 5 decades, overcame assumptions after much efforts: Jaishankar

For nearly five decades India looked upon the United States with suspicion and its overall foreign policy assessment of the US was of deep caution, but the country has now overcome the assumptions to forge a different relationship with America, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar said on Wednesday.

Jaishankar also said he wanted to give out the message that it was in the mutual interest of India and China to find a way to accommodate each other.

Jaishankar was speaking at the Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs in New York with former Niti Aayog vice chairman and Columbia University professor Arvind Panagariya on ‘India in the emerging global order’.

“Take our attitude towards the United States…between the late 40s and I would say 2000; the year Clinton came to India. For almost 50 years, for various reasons I’m not saying we were at fault, or the US was at fault, but the fact was we regarded the US with suspicion with a lot of wariness. It was a very substantive relationship, but the overall foreign policy assessment of the US was of deep caution if not of deep suspicion,” he said.

“Now the fact is when the world began to change the tenability of that view came into question. We struggled, even the nuclear deal in 2005-08 was a struggle because on the one hand the US was offering some very clear advantages. What held us back was an innate historical deeply rooted, possibly validated, suspicion of the United States. We kind of said this is a gift horse might we really need to look at in the mouth,” he added.

Jaishankar credited Prime Minister Narendra Modi in reshaping India’s relation with the US.

“It has taken us a lot of effort to overcome the earlier assumptions in order to forge a different relationship with the US and one of the big differences which PM Modi has made…he has not carried ideological baggage, he’s not a person who is rooted in a certain world view which makes you fundamentally distant from the US,” he said.

Dilbu wrote:India was wary of US for 5 decades, overcame assumptions after much efforts: Jaishankar

For nearly five decades India looked upon the United States with suspicion and its overall foreign policy assessment of the US was of deep caution, but the country has now overcome the assumptions to forge a different relationship with America, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar said on Wednesday.

.

“It has taken us a lot of effort to overcome the earlier assumptions in order to forge a different relationship with the US and one of the big differences which PM Modi has made…he has not carried ideological baggage, he’s not a person who is rooted in a certain world view which makes you fundamentally distant from the US,” he said.

How does it change what the US is fundamentally ? It has no hestitation throwing its "friends" under the bus at the first opportunity. Unreliable at best.

We don't need any favours from the US. What we need, US won't give. Engine tech, N-tech etc. And we know that.

This relationship building is just to keep US on friendly terms to ensure they don't go overboard supporting Pakis (even the latest 500M F16 parts deal won't fundamentally change much in the india-Pak power equation but is still unacceptable) or hurt Indian interests deliberately.

US has stopped being a world leader long ago. Didn't step fwd to help during Covid or after, let China's belt and road make inroads into many countries, has given up even trying to be a factor of positive change on any topic. Even on the much touted Climate Change it's stance has been piss poor. Remember BBBW? Not a word since it was announced with great fan fare.

In fact I see India stepping into such a benevolent role more and more, in its neighbourhood and beyond, with its limited means.

US world view has shrunk to fit neocon and MIC interests. So there is nothing good that will come out of getting closer to US, except being burned by its pyromania.

We can dance this half hearted friendship dance for another decade while we consolidate as an important pole in the multipolar world.

Then we'll see depending on where each of us has reached.

Jaishankar need not be so self-effacing. US since 1954 Military Assistance Pact(MAP) with Pakistan had doe a lot of adversarial actions. The deep seated distrust was not without basis.
Even the IUCNA deal had many poison pills and if it were not for the Nuclear Accident Liability bill it would not been negated.
Even last month the US Sustainment aid to Pakistan of $450 million to keep 75 F-16s flying and as good as new is not a goodwill gesture towards India.

I also like the statement that NaMo does not carry baggage and it would be better if Biden also dropped the baggage.
implication is someone other than NaMo is there it wont be the same.

Biden sure has a lot of baggage and in just two years has taken many anti-India measures.
I am sure the US knows what they are.

Biden needs to resign. He can’t manage the largest economy in the world with most incompetent Sec. Of Treasury. The previous administration was criticized for being ignorant, but this administration has no effing clue on budgetary allocations, regulations, energy, gov. investment and taxes, causing immense damage to large multinational corporations including those from India.

Thanks for the information Ramanaji. This FMS opens the door for even more sales and US & NATO member aid. It brings Paki defence forces more aligned to the west all thanks to Brandon.

PAF F-16 fleet gets:

1. Reliable airframes for several more years.
2. Reliable engine repair and overhaul.
3. Updated countermeasures package.
4. Calibration of radar and EW capabilities including protection from AAMs and SAMs.
5. Continued US logistics support.
6. It clears the path for more eff-solas from Turkey and then making them up to date.

If Trump had approved this there would howls of anger on this very forum and the usual suspects are now notably absent.

To Dr SJ's credit, he has said quite recently that US support to Pak for decades has created lot of troubles for India. I feel he was being diplomatic by not being overly critical while in the US. Could he have been more blunt? Perhaps yes. And US can do this sales unofficially as well.

It will be interesting to see how far India will go or not to stop these mil spares sale to Pak. Definitely doesn't help the relationship.

India has claimed past reliance on Russian weapons as the reason for having to continue the deep relationship with Moscow. This is a reply for that approach from unkil. If we protest they will say past relationship with TSP as a weapons provider onlee. That is why India is not protesting any louder.

Jaishankar takes dig at American media for ‘biased’ India coverage

External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar has slammed the mainstream American media, including The Washington Post, for their “biased” coverage of India.

“I look at the media. You know, there are some newspapers you know, exactly, what they are going to write including one in this town,” Jaishankar told a gathering of Indian-Americans from across the country amidst laughter and applause on Sunday.

“My point is there are biases, there are efforts really, to determine,…Look, the more India goes its way and the people who believe that they were the custodians and the shapers of India lose ground in India the more actually, some of these debaters gonna come outside,” Jaishankar said responding to a question on the increase in anti-Indian forces in this country.

Such groups, he asserted, are “not winning in India”. Such groups, the minister noted, will try and win outside or try and shape India from outside.

“This is something which we need to be aware of. It is important to contest. It isn’t because most Americans will not know what sort of the nuances and the complexities of back home, so, it’s important not to sit back, not to let other people define me. That is something which I feel as a community is very important for us,” he said.

That sounds weird equating buyer dependency with seller's choice. India will not buy that.

This sale to Pak comes at a time their economy is in a tail spin and reeling from floods. They can't pay for it in cash. Nothing compelling US to enter into a bad debt sale I think this is quid pro quo for supplying ammo to Ukraine and payment disguised as spares supply to F16s.
Pakis had the gumption to beg Russia for aid at the recent SCO summit and Russia has even sent a plane load of medicines.
There are now begging France and anyone they chance upon at the UNGA.

I'm sure our EAM is aware of all this, and we will back the results of the referendum tacitly and refuse to condemn the accession of the 4 territories into Russia.

US is only creating more distance with India with this decision which is a consequence of its Ukraine policy.

Its starting to look like Ukraine is an albatross around the neck of US and EU more than for Russia, which will acquire territory the size of Austria, some 8 million population, extremely fertile lands, a very good industrial base, and excellent access to the black sea.

hnair wrote:The chutzpah of pointing out reliability of Russia, a week after loading up Pakis with 400millions worth of F16 spares.

Fire up EAM Jaishankar! This needs another epic beating

Here it comes, generously

The US is becoming like China/Chinese. Reminds me of a Jewish comedian who does not eat pork. He tells Chinese waiter, "No Pork". Waiter nods head and comes with dish, that has pork. Comedian asks "Pork" and waiter nods again. "But I said, No Pork", comedian demands and waiter nods again. US is becoming like this. They nod their heads but do their own thing irrespective. The media/press is even worse, they may mix arsenic with pork.

Cyrano wrote:

hnair wrote:The chutzpah of pointing out reliability of Russia, a week after loading up Pakis with 400millions worth of F16 spares.

Fire up EAM Jaishankar! This needs another epic beating

Here it comes, generously

I have a feeling the Americans will run for cover if they see JS ,
He is going to lecture them on what F16 s are "actually "

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... ampaign=ht


It's really for the United States today to reflect on the merits of this relationship and what they get by it," Jaishankar asserted.

"For someone to say I am doing this because it is all counter-terrorism content and so when you are talking of an aircraft like a capability of an F-16 where everybody knows, you know where they are deployed and their use. You are not fooling anybody by saying these things," Jaishankar noted.

Good opportunity for us to continue working with Russians on upgrading the Su-30 fleet, and maybe more.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article ... gn=3193906
US vows deeper India defence ties on same day latter vents anger over F-16 deal with Pakistan
Pentagon chief meets Indian foreign minister in Washington, committing to support New Delhi as ‘security provider’ in Indo-Pacific region
But envoy earlier says ‘you are not fooling anybody’ by claiming US$450 million deal with Islamabad will bolster counterterrorism
Khushboo Razdan, 27 Sep, 2022
A US pledge on Monday to deepen defence ties with India – a key partner in its security strategy for the Indo-Pacific region to counter China’s growing muscle – was partially eclipsed by New Delhi lashing out at Washington over its support for Pakistan.
On the same day that US Secretary of Defence Lloyd Austin pledged to boost US-Indian cooperation, Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar expressed irritation over the Biden administration’s approval this month of a US$450 million package to maintain and upgrade Pakistan’s F-16 fighter jets.
“For someone to say, ‘I am doing this because it is all counterterrorism content’, and so, when you are talking of an aircraft like a capability of an F-16 where everybody knows … where they are deployed and their use, you are not fooling anybody by saying these things,” Jaishankar said at a book launch in Washington.
The US has argued that maintaining Pakistan’s F-16 fleet will bolster Islamabad’s capability to meet current and future counterterrorism threats.
Later on Monday, Austin met with Jaishankar at the Pentagon, and the two “discussed new opportunities for bilateral defence industrial cooperation in support of India’s contributions as a regional security provider”, according to a press release.
The US “looks forward to working with India and like-minded partners to promote security, prosperity, and transparency” in the Indo-Pacific, it added.
As a member of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, India is considered a major US ally in the Indo-Pacific to counter China’s expanding influence in the region. A Pentagon official last week stressed that India was “central” to the US vision of a “free and open” Indo-Pacific.
But India’s relations with Pakistan are fraught in the best of times, a wariness dating back to the latter’s founding in 1947. The South Asian neighbours have fought three wars, with New Delhi long accusing Islamabad of harbouring and exporting terrorists.
Washington’s US$450 million deal with Pakistan is the first security assistance of its kind since 2018 when Biden’s predecessor Donald Trump halted aid to Islamabad. Trump accused Pakistan of supporting militant groups waging an insurgency in Afghanistan against the US-backed government of Ashraf Ghani.
And while the US was once Pakistan’s largest supplier of arms, that distinction now belongs to China. Between 2017 and 2021, Beijing met 72 per cent of Islamabad’s demand for major arms, according to data published by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute in March.
......
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 936672.ece
Jaishankar takes a dig at American media for ‘biased’ India coverage
PTI, SEPTEMBER 26, 2022
India's voice counts in world because of PM Modi; U.S.-Pak relationship has not served either of two: Jaishankar
External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar, on Sunday, slammed the mainstream American media, including The Washington Post, for their “biased” coverage of India.
“I look at the media. You know, there are some newspapers you know, exactly, what they are going to write including one in this town,” Mr. Jaishankar told a gathering of Indian-Americans from across the country amidst laughter and applause on September 25.
The prestigious Washington Post is the national daily published from Washington DC and is currently being owned by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.
“My point is there are biases, there are efforts really, to determine,... Look, the more India goes its way and the people who believe that they were the custodians and the shapers of India lose ground in India the more actually, some of these debaters gonna come outside,” Mr. Jaishankar said responding to a question on the increase in anti-Indian forces in this country.
Such groups, he asserted, are “not winning in India”. Such groups, the Minister noted, will try and win outside or try and shape India from outside.
“This is something which we need to be aware of. It is important to contest. It isn’t because most Americans will not know what sort of the nuances and the complexities of back home, so, it’s important not to sit back, not to let other people define me. That is something which I feel as a community is very important for us,” he said.
Responding to a question on misrepresentation of the Kashmir issue in the American capital, Mr. Jaishankar said if there is a terrorist incident, it doesn’t matter what faith the person who’s killed belongs to.
“If there are Indian soldiers or Indian policemen who are abducted; If there are people working for the government, or citizens going about their business, who will lose their lives?,” he added.
“How often do you hear people talking about it; pronouncing it, in fact, look at the media coverage. What does the media cover what does the media not cover?,” the External Affairs Minister asked.
That is how actually opinions and perceptions are shaped, he underlined.
“There is a big song and dance about the Internet being cut. Now, if you’ve reached the stage where you say an Internet cut is more dangerous than the loss of human lives, then what can I say?” Mr. Jaishankar said amidst applause from the audience.
“If you look at A [Article] 370-issue. What was a temporary provision of the Constitution was finally put to rest this was supposed to be an act of majority. This was supposed to be majoritarian. Tell me what was happening in Kashmir was not majoritarian? I think the way facts are slanted, things are laid out. What is right, what is wrong is confused. This is actually politics at work.
......
Gautam

Watch out Dr SJ - when the Americans put on a show they're out to sell you snake oil or steal spare keys to your house.

A group of female Muslim students at Syracuse University is demanding the university pool provide special hours for female swimmers due to their religious beliefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/femal ... 071dfd2c04

krithivas wrote:

A group of female Muslim students at Syracuse University is demanding the university pool provide special hours for female swimmers due to their religious beliefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/femal ... 071dfd2c04

Aren't they asking to change the water as well... how can the pure swim in the same water as that used by the kufrs?

Cyrano wrote:Watch out Dr SJ - when the Americans put on a show they're out to sell you snake oil or steal spare keys to your house.

[youtube]G8KLlCcK8tM

gosh now please dont talk about what f16s ,pretty please ?

US has replied to DrSJ https://www.rediff.com/news/report/indi ... 220927.htm

"We don't view our relationship with Pakistan, and on the other hand, we don't view our relationship with India as in relation to one another. These are both partners of ours with different points of emphasis in each," State Department Spokesperson Ned Price told reporters at his daily news conference.

Would it be fair then for us to respond similarly? Say if the shoe was on the other foot, would the following reuse of the same talking points make sense?

"We don't view our relationship with Russia, and on the other hand, we don't view our relationship with the United States as in relation to one another. These are both partners of ours with different points of emphasis in each," <MEA officer> told reporters at his daily news conference.

"We look to both as partners, because we do have in many cases shared values. We do have in many cases shared interests. And the relationship we have with the US stands on its own. The relationship we have with Russia stands on its own," he said.

"We also want to do everything we can to see to it that these neighbours (note: yes US and Russia are indeed neighbours) have relations with one another that are as constructive as can be possible. So that's another point of emphasis,"

"The support for the people of Ukraine is something we discuss regularly with our Russian partners; our efforts to improve the lives and livelihoods and humanitarian conditions of the Ukranian people, and to see to it that the Orange Revolutionaries live up to the commitments that they have made," he added.

Please note the quotes immediately above this line are pure figments of my imagination.

krithivas wrote:

A group of female Muslim students at Syracuse University is demanding the university pool provide special hours for female swimmers due to their religious beliefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/femal ... 071dfd2c04

Interesting. Maybe this will result in a better definition of "woman" under the law. NY courts have previously ruled that men can claim to be women.

Dog's tail can't be straightened and U.S backstabbing cannot be stopped. India must now get into better relationship with countries in U.S neighborhood like Cuba, Venezuela and the like. Very important. They also need to be supplied with weaponry as much as we can for the kindness that the U.S showers on Terroristan.

We don't view our relationship with Russia, and on the other hand, we don't view our relationship with the United States as in relation to one another. These are both partners of ours with different points of emphasis in each," <MEA officer> told reporters at his daily news conference.

Yensoyji for a change India has started saying exactly such things. SJ is careful in choosing his words but in essence he has been saying the same thing.

Lloyd Austin's counterpart would be Rajnath Singh right? Looks like he is perfectly fine to leave the Washington ba(sh)tting to SJ. That's a good sign, he knows SJ will not overstep his mandate and still defend MoD/India's interests. Cabinet members need to trust each other and work like this.

Time for MoD to include a clause in all current and future procurements wherein the Embassy in India of the weapon OEM's country would have to undertake that they haven't sold or provided support for any weapons systems to any country having land disputes with India.

Thakur_B wrote:Time for MoD to include a clause in all current and future procurements wherein the Embassy in India of the weapon OEM's country would have to undertake that they haven't sold or provided support for any weapons systems to any country having land disputes with India.

sir jee,

That would eliminate both Russia and France from our supplier list. That said, it is not a bad idea. We can selectively quote that as per convenience just like massa.

Display headline - 'In Washington Jaishankar praises Russian arms supplies'

Actual headline - 'No issues with Russia over military spares, servicing, says Jaishankar'

From the article -

Asserting that it exercises a choice which it believes is in its national interest, India on Tuesday said it has no difficulties with Russia on servicing of military equipment and spare parts in the aftermath of the war in Ukraine.

"On the military equipment (from Russia), to the best of my knowledge, I don't think in recent months we have faced any particular problems in terms of servicing and spare parts supply of equipment that we have got in the past from Russia," External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar told reporters at a joint news conference with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

India, he noted, looks at possibilities across the world. "We look at the quality of technology, the quality of capability, the terms on which that particular equipment is offered, and we exercise a choice which we believe is in our national interest," Jaishankar said.

Manish_P wrote:Display headline - 'In Washington Jaishankar praises Russian arms supplies'

Actual headline - 'No issues with Russia over military spares, servicing, says Jaishankar'

From the article -

Asserting that it exercises a choice which it believes is in its national interest, India on Tuesday said it has no difficulties with Russia on servicing of military equipment and spare parts in the aftermath of the war in Ukraine.

"On the military equipment (from Russia), to the best of my knowledge, I don't think in recent months we have faced any particular problems in terms of servicing and spare parts supply of equipment that we have got in the past from Russia," External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar told reporters at a joint news conference with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

India, he noted, looks at possibilities across the world. "We look at the quality of technology, the quality of capability, the terms on which that particular equipment is offered, and we exercise a choice which we believe is in our national interest," Jaishankar said.

So if US can service paki jets., Russia can service Indian weapons.

This administration has a knack for offering India sticks to beat them with, now or later
Dr SJ also threw in "selection on the basis of a competitive process..." ityaadi in his reply. Reminding everyone that they need to stand in a queue and jump through hoops and loops to sell to India. This is really really on your feet razor sharp and clever. Exceptional justesse des mots !

Here's the presser: (MEA's video has terrible sound, hope this is better)

Did Secy. ever answer the ANI reporter's question re. why di Paxis need F16s to fight terrorists? He gave a non-answer. His tone was quite apologetic. Good.

US has truly become a Rogue State.
Paranoid, nervous and unpredictable, dropping all pretenses of global good or rules based order etc and just being a senseless bully.

If India thinks that this relationship will somehow bring the US to a more constructive path - it's a mistake.

Just look at the presser above. All the doing good things Dr JS talked about seem to embarrass Blinken. He is feeling peer pressure of being laughed at in the white House corridors for being a wussy and letting the narrative slip away into some utopian crap from a 3rd world country.

Look at the questions from Rogue State journos: is India being pliant and keeling to suck up? No one gives a rats ass about global south and it's 2k per capita brown hordes! These are the kind of people and voters this administration is serving.

Like I said before India at the moment has to dance along on tiptoes but not fall into the embrace. unipolar to multipolar won't happen without a dangerous and catastrophic upheaval. Rogue State will not relinquish or share the throne, it will have to be defeated to let anyone else plant their pole.
We can no longer dismiss these Rand reports ityadi as some fringe elements. They are telling what the Rogue State want to hear and do. They are part of it. We've been forewarned.

+1