Mass Rapid Transit in India

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 07 Sep 2015 09:36

^^ Bangalore better plan the PRR with provision for mass transit. Something like Chennai's ORR, which has a 20m wide space in the centre for rail/BRTS throughout its 60km length. The time for tentative planning is long past.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Sep 2015 12:47

Well they should plan another line parallel to the red line either via ORR or just outside it. The sheer nonsense that is ORR during the day is unbelievable. Somebody should be sent to the gulags for sever lack of brain material while planning that stretch. And for not getting on with another ring outside the current one.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Sep 2015 18:25

prasad mian, i was too thinking it was lack of brains.. later i realized it was not. they are only smart within the soot-boot-loot mode. only that normal citizens [at large] lack brains to not support good governance and growth model.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Sep 2015 19:28

The cost of the PRR is ~ Rs 10,000 crore. Government will need more tax money. Even Chennai is debating how to pay for its own PRR.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 07 Sep 2015 21:02

They can do what Hyderabad did - get an international loan.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 08 Sep 2015 02:13

The Peril of Being Incontinent

The following news report in the Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/ban ... 623395.ece

The Honorable Union Minister of Urban Development Shri Venkaiah Naidu has admonished the State Government of Karnataka and the BMRCL that they should stick to deadlines. He adds that the Managing director of BMRCL should better coordinate activities since delays can create escalation of cost and lead to general "incontinence" in the public. Since the Namma Metro project has been delayed, I hope to see serious examples of incontinence in Bangalore when I visit next, perhaps, copulation, defecation and urination at every street corner.

Bangalore sure is in for lively times.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 08 Sep 2015 02:17

^^

Did the Hindu mean to say "incompetence"?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Sep 2015 04:37

I guess they meant to say "inconvenience".

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 08 Sep 2015 11:07

Alstom has won the rolling stock contract for Lucknow's metro as well.

source: http://www.lmrcl.com/Doc/NoticeforAward.pdf

Makes it their 3rd win after Chennai and Kochi.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 08 Sep 2015 19:08

September newsletter of Bangalore Metro is out. The news is exceedingly dismal. I am not sure what ails this organization. But the Metro corporation is completely dysfunctional. Godavari is still to start with it's new cutter head.
The two working TBM's Kaveri and Margarita each tunneled 1 m a day for the grand total of 30m for the month of August by Kaveri and 35m for Margarita. Fanbois and apologists will be out in full force, "hard rock, hard rock" etc.
Out of 78 Alumino-Thermic welds of UG tracks East-West that were left over from July, they performed only 1 AT welding in the month of August and now they are left with 77 welds East-West UG. So the UG tracks on the East bound line that need the third rail are still incomplete, they are not welded at many places, leave alone fixing the third rail. Somehow I thought they had the rails done.
I am not even optimistic they will have East-West functioning March 2016, this looks like May 2016. Too much Bisi bele hullianna culture!!

Kaveri needs to tunnel 394m for a breakthrough, 13 months at current rates. Kharola says tunnels will be complete March 2016. Margarita is at 804m and needs to tunnel 169m to emerge at Mantri Mall. According to Kharola, Margarita will be done in 1.5 months. At even 40m a month, that is 4 months. I will not even hazard a guess for the non-working machines, Krishna, needs to tunnel 747m and Godavari 621m.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 08 Sep 2015 19:28

vsunder wrote:September newsletter of Bangalore Metro is out. The news is exceedingly dismal. I am not sure what ails this organization.

Let me try to lighten the mood. When the Chennai metro had problems, so of us (at SSC) looked at 'Namma metro' (that's probably the most Indic name/logo I have seen so far, good job, Bengaluru!) with envy and hoped to see such progress at home. Now time to reverse the gaze, perhaps?

The Gammon-Mosmetrostroy contract was a big one - to tunnel the entire Anna Salai stretch of Chennai metro from Saidapet to Chintradripet and to Central and build the 6 stations in between. The Russian firm walked out halfway for some reason, and Gammon was left holding their **** in their hands. More importantly, this crucial stretch was far from complete. Some deft handling by CMRL managed the situation to an extent - they asked another contractor, Afcons, which was engaged in tunneling part of the Central - Koyambedu line, to take over and at complete the first package that was halted. And they did, and achieved the breakthough at DMS that was posted above in this page. So at least half the line under Anna Salai and 3 stations (out of 6) can be completed now. The remaining stretch though, needs to be re-tendered and that will cause some delays. But at least, if CMRL now decides to tweak the current design and provide a turn back facility at DMS station, they could open this stretch earlier. Not sure if they can and will do that. Let's see how this plays out. However, the overall picture is looking good:

Metro Rail Work 'Broadly' Completed at Saidapet, DMS - New Indian Exp

Despite the huge setback it suffered after the Russian firm abandoned the tunneling project, the Chennai Metro Rail has managed to complete package 3 of tunneling work between Saidapet and DMS. This would come up to about 5.70 km - both the tunnels included - said official sources.

“The tunneling was carried out with drive through option, passing both the tunnel boring machines through the underground stations at Nandanam and Teynampet. With Tuesday’s breakthrough, the entire tunneling work from Saidapet to DMS had been broadly completed. This was one of the major challenges for Metro Rail, as one of the joint venture partners of the main contract, Russian firm Mosmetrostroy, had abandoned the tunneling work halfway. Metro Rail had to engage another contractor to complete the work,” the official said.

A total of 5.50 km of tunnels are yet to be completed and this could be done possibly by the middle of next year. There is nearly a 2-km stretch left in Package One – May Day Park to Chennai Central railway station – and another 3.5-km from May Day Park to DMS. “We are expecting it to be completed by next year possibly in March-April,” the official added.

Per a source on SSC, this stretch has another half-km left to tunnel. So its not as bad as it looks.

The work on the underground stretch from the park to DMS was hit after Mosmetrostroy walked out of the project and its joint venture partner Gammon’s work was terminated. Sources said that only 50 per cent work had been completed from May Day Park to DMS. “The tenders have been called but are yet to be awarded,” said the official.

A ride underground from Chennai Egmore to Koyambedu would be possible by June next year, sources added. This could boost the revenue of Metro Rail, as more commuters might be using the metro to reach their offices to avoid traffic congestion on roads, sources said.

The last bit about Egmore-Koyambedu indeed is possible at the current pace. The tunneling is broadly done, and the station construction is going on at full swing. IIRC, they are looking to start trials by end of the year. If they can commission this before the onset of elections next year (and model code of conduct, etc.), it would add to the CMRL's ridership significantly. Egmore and Koyambedu are significant rail and bus terminals serving Chennai, and this line is the same one running up to Koyambedu as of today. So that's some serious capacity addition (St. Thomas Mount - Koyambedu - Anna Nagar - Egmore). Fingers crossed.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 10 Sep 2015 09:21

Chennai Metro's Airport station is now ready:

more images: http://themetrorailguy.com/

Looks like the line will take some more time to become operational due to the trench section abutting the highway, right in the path of the secondary runway.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2015 19:19

i think instead of a TBM if we reverted to the old method of a scaffolding at the tunnel rock face, and groups of men with jackhammers drilling holes, small charges to break the rock, rock taken away, scoffolding moves forward to new rock face...progress could be >1m a day!!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-20854680

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2015 19:22

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnelling_shield

the shield method was invented by the father of isambard brunel.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Sep 2015 19:55

No, it was terribly dangerous and kill rate was often one dead worker per day. Decompression, explosives, water flood, collapse, poison fumes, etc all took their toll.

TBM’s are far far superior and a true revolution. Problem is finding the skilled crews necessary to drive them, from all reports it is more art than science and skilled operators literally ‘feel’ their way forward like a mole rat. Though even skilled crews can get into sticky situations. At the Gotthard tunnel one of the TBM’s go so stuck it took 2 years for a rescue to fish it free….

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2015 21:24

I just joking I know the kill counts

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 11 Sep 2015 04:03

Pune will have a primarily elevated metro with an underground section at congested areas - source: TOI

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Sep 2015 04:29

Interesting stuff I learned on Wikipedia: Delhi Metro went from 0km until end of 2002, to 208km today. Once phase 3 is complete, it will be ~365km, the 5th biggest metro system in the world by route length after Beijing, Shanghai, London and NYC . The opening of phase 3 will let Delhi overtake many famous metro systems in route length - Moscow, Paris, Seoul, Madrid... Once phase 4 completes in 2020-22, it will become the 3rd biggest system by route length.

It's impressive just how many cities have or will have metros in such a short time. In 2002, all we had was the piddly old Kolkata one. Now we have New Delhi, Kolkata, Mumbai, Chennai, Bengaluru, Gurgaon, Jaipur so far. Under construction or approved: Hyderabad, Kochi, Navi Mumbai, Lucknow, A'bad/Gandhinagar, Nagpur and now Pune. At 82kms, Pune has an impressively long metro system planned.

Fourteen Indian cities with world standard rapid transit systems in service or under development, with 18 more pending approval: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_transit_in_India . Like JEM said, quite a change from what we used to have. After the old tram systems in some cities post independence fell apart, this is the new backbone of a modern urban transportation system for our cities. Hopefully they'll all have integrated transport systems where buses, rapid transit and other modes work together.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 11 Sep 2015 06:32

A Delhi Metro Phase 3 train was spotted being shunted through Seoul metro's line 1

source: Metro Rail Guy

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Sep 2015 10:51

Suraj wrote:Interesting stuff I learned on Wikipedia: Delhi Metro went from 0km until end of 2002, to 208km today. Once phase 3 is complete, it will be ~365km, the 5th biggest metro system in the world by route length after Beijing, Shanghai, London and NYC . The opening of phase 3 will let Delhi overtake many famous metro systems in route length - Moscow, Paris, Seoul, Madrid... Once phase 4 completes in 2020-22, it will become the 3rd biggest system by route length.

Isn't Seoul Mteropolitan Subway (Metro and other lines) largest in the world in terms of route length? It covers over 900km!!

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Sep 2015 12:00

Technically, Seoul Metro only counts the SMRT lines, not the Korail commuter lines, just like Mumbai Metro doesn't count the suburban lines, and Paris Metro doesn't count RER route length. SMRT route length is 331kms. Tokyo would be even more interesting, because Tokyo Metro itself only carries about 25% of the total commuter traffic each day. The remaining 75% take various radial commuter lines into and out of the city.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Sep 2015 21:11

that way wouldnt NYC be really big? there is a NJ coastal line, another through trenton to PA somewhere, the long island railroad and the one that goes on coast of CT via stamford, greenwich etc.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Sep 2015 21:21

That applies to every city with a large rail transport system. Mumbai suburban network itself is ~500kms today. When they list metro system route lengths, they restrict the count to the route length of the metro system only, not every bit of rail on the ground in the city. I think that's quite reasonable, since we're talking about one particular system, though it's also quite true that in an actual use context, some cities depend on their commuter rail network as much or more than on their metro system, and therefore might have quite a large commuter rail network outside of the metro system. But the fact remains that the metro system is distinct.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Sep 2015 21:49

Why cannot they run metro quality coaches on the suburban network for Mumbai. What are the technical difficulties that is stopping this from happening ?

srin · Post by **srin** » 11 Sep 2015 22:33

I have a slightly different question from Bade-ji: For Bangalore Metro, why does it have to run on different lines, different gauges, etc. Why couldn't the Bangalore Metro re-use the same lines of the Indian railways but with different coaches (exactly like the Mumbai locals) ?

Then they could have used most of the existing tracks for airport link, to Whitefield and to Ecity.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Sep 2015 23:01

The Indian railways commuter lines don't serve the purpose of most metro systems, except in the case of the Mumbai suburban, which really is a special case . Where Bangalore actually requires the metro system, there's no existing railway line in place. The gauge issue though, is a whole different - and politically loaded - question. I'll leave that to someone else to cover.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Sep 2015 23:54

If all non-civil infrastructure like power lines, signalling etc can be installed for Kochi metro in less than 6 months time for a ~ 20km stretch, it sure can be done within a reasonable amount of time, to convert mumbai/kolkata suburban lines to metro quality. Rolling stock might need special order, but nothing out of the ordinary there. This in itself will improve the quality of transport available to a large segment of the city population in addition to the newer metro lines.

If you are building on railway land no additional land acquisition is needed too. If existing tracks cannot be used, then it should still be faster to build over the same foot print with pillars like they do in the median of the roads. Are safety reasons the primary concern here ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 12 Sep 2015 02:11

srin wrote:I have a slightly different question from Bade-ji: For Bangalore Metro, why does it have to run on different lines, different gauges, etc. Why couldn't the Bangalore Metro re-use the same lines of the Indian railways but with different coaches (exactly like the Mumbai locals) ?

Then they could have used most of the existing tracks for airport link, to Whitefield and to Ecity.

You don't want to do that. MMTS of Hyd does the same and people will tell you the delays caused because of sharing of lines. Many times trains just halt mostly before major stations to get a platform. Imagine doing that every day while going to your work. It's better to have dedicated lines for metro or local trains.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 12 Sep 2015 02:13

^^ Commuting routes don't always match the rail setup, unless we wait for people to move closer to suburban stations. What I mean is, just building on existing railway lines may not serve current traffic flows since the cities have grown without these rail lines being a part of their commute. The only exceptions are Mumbai, Kolkata and Madras, since they have running local trains for over 70 years. See the lack of crowd on MMTS in Hyderabad, when compared to the former.

As for metro-like rolling stock, Mumbai has new shiny toys imported from Bombardier and Siemens for this very purpose. They don't like the dull drab ICF inspired caterpillar like rakes. Never mind that these phoren trains initially struggled mightily with the Super Dense Crush Load (yes, that's an official term) on Mumbai WR evening services, and our ICF rakes shrugged it off like Bhim and sprinted ahead

Regarding gauge, I think there is some rule that all BG lines will be under IR administratively, unless exceptions are given, like on the Delhi metro. This is probably why the Kolkata metro is a zone of the Indian Railways, and runs BG trains. And that is probably why other cities decided to go with SG

. Heck, even Delhi changed its mind, given that they were in a Trishanku situation to begin with. The first two lines are built to BG standards, but the trains are mostly SG coaches mounted on BG bogies. So they paid the higher cost for BG infra, but have to squeeze in SG space. Generally, we should have gone with BG metro lines all over - our population will mandate it in the future and except these Trishanku tracks in Delhi, others will face severe congestion and can do nothing about it.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Sep 2015 05:13

BG coaches having more capacity can also be a drag, as it contributes to the instantaneous crush density at entry and exit time for passengers to these coaches, no ?

A better solution is to increase frequency of trains, to streamline the flow and reducing the packet density

of passengers picked up and dropped off at each station. Or increase the number of lines in each alignment...all this will add to the cost too no doubt.

But the idea is to travel more comfortably than what people experience on Mumbai locals in the 21st century. Is it any better with newer coaches now ? Lack of A/C adds to the issues when in crush density and packed like sardines with no fresh air to breathe too.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 12 Sep 2015 05:52

Hyderabad Metro may miss deadline again

HYDERABAD: Larsen & Toubro, the concessionaire building the Hyderabad Metro Rail (HMR), in an apparent bid to build pressure on the state government to decide on its realignment proposals, has said that the project is unlikely to be completed by the July 2017 deadline.

"The project launch is unlikely on July 4, 2017, which is the deadline according to the concessionaire agreement," said V B Gadgil, chief executive and managing director of L&T Metro Rail. According to Gadgil, the delay was also due to other factors like the non-availability of right of way (RoW) at many places that is slowing down the works. For example, there is an inordinate delay in acquiring properties in Ameerpet. "Realignment is the government's prerogative. But, it is one of the issues leading to delays. Faster issuance of RoW would help expedite the execution of the project," Gadgil said.

Source and more: TOI

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 12 Sep 2015 07:18

Bade wrote:BG coaches having more capacity can also be a drag, as it contributes to the instantaneous crush density at entry and exit time for passengers to these coaches, no ?

Wider doors help here.

Bade wrote:A better solution is to increase frequency of trains,
<snip>
But the idea is to travel more comfortably than what people experience on Mumbai locals in the 21st century. Is it any better with newer coaches now ?

Theoretically, true, but here's the problem. There are 4 tracks out of Churchgate - 1 pair for slow, and 1 for fast. From Mumbai Central, and further down, from Bandra terminus, express trains join the party. I think there's an extra track for these long distance trains, but I am not sure. Anyway, point is, between the hours of 5-6 PM, the 2 outbound (down in IR parlance) tracks have to serve the following:
12 slow local trains
11 fast local trains
5 long distance express trains
(source and source:erail)

Assuming the long distance trains take the fast track, we are looking at a frequency of 1 train every 5:00 min for slow, and 1 every 3:45 min on the fast track. And these locals are all 12 car trains, with a few 15 car ones!

On the CR side, out of CST, it's not much different:
11 slow locals
10 fast locals
within the same 5-6 PM timeframe.

Unless massive investment is done to build another set of 4 tracks on an bridge above the existing line, comfort is a pipe dream through a very long pipe. And given IR's ticket prices, RoI will be poor for such a mammoth project.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 12 Sep 2015 07:32

A TBM has made a breakthrough at Delhi's Panchsheel Park station on the Magenta line:

source and more pictures/info: The Metro Rail Guy

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Sep 2015 11:22

arshyam wrote:And given IR's ticket prices, RoI will be poor for such a mammoth project.

I agree and we have discussed this before. It would probably be cheaper or similar cost to just build a new metro. Maybe if we are up to it, bury the entire lot in 2 levels, release the surface land for sale and somewhat break even on the entire thing. No more jugaad please....

It would be one humongous project and I doubt we have all the equipment and expertise necessary to execute on time.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 12 Sep 2015 13:51

arshyam wrote:
Bade wrote:BG coaches having more capacity can also be a drag, as it contributes to the instantaneous crush density at entry and exit time for passengers to these coaches, no ?
Wider doors help here.

Bade wrote:A better solution is to increase frequency of trains,
<snip>
But the idea is to travel more comfortably than what people experience on Mumbai locals in the 21st century. Is it any better with newer coaches now ?
Theoretically, true, but here's the problem. There are 4 tracks out of Churchgate - 1 pair for slow, and 1 for fast. From Mumbai Central, and further down, from Bandra terminus, express trains join the party. I think there's an extra track for these long distance trains, but I am not sure. Anyway, point is, between the hours of 5-6 PM, the 2 outbound (down in IR parlance) tracks have to serve the following:
12 slow local trains
11 fast local trains
5 long distance express trains
(source and source:erail)

Assuming the long distance trains take the fast track, we are looking at a frequency of 1 train every 5:00 min for slow, and 1 every 3:45 min on the fast track. And these locals are all 12 car trains, with a few 15 car ones!

On the CR side, out of CST, it's not much different:
11 slow locals
10 fast locals
within the same 5-6 PM timeframe.

Unless massive investment is done to build another set of 4 tracks on an bridge above the existing line, comfort is a pipe dream through a very long pipe. And given IR's ticket prices, RoI will be poor for such a mammoth project.

Your assumption is correct. The Long distance trains use only fast track till Virar.
However the fifth line, which is currently present from Borivali to Mumbai Central is also used fort Long distance traffic, but not much. Actually, using that line for fast local originating from Virar can help during peak hours, where two simultaneous fast locals can reach to their destination giving commuters some relief.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 12 Sep 2015 19:40

MMRDA to seek Maharashtra’s approval for two new Metro lines

After the Maharashtra government approves two new metro lines --- Dahisar-DN Nagar and Dahisar (East)-Andheri (East), the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA) will start arranging for funds. The planning agency plans to take loans from global funding agencies and seek financial assistance from the Centre and state governments.

The MMRDA will soon approach the state government with its projects.

MMRDA commissioner UPS Madan said: “As the detailed project reports (DPR) for these lines have been approved, we are going to seek the state government’s approval. The elevated Metro lines will be constructed on cash contract mode. We will raise funds through loans and financial grants from the governments including sub debt.”

Chief minister Devendra Fadnavis has started his Japan tour and is set to hold talks with Japanese Ministry of Economy and Trade and Industry (METI).

source: Hindustan Times

The metro rail guy has included a map showing both these lines in blue and red colors:

source: the metro rail guy

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Sep 2015 21:42

rohit_k & ritesh, are there still manned/unmanned level crossings on the Mumbai commuter rail? Any idea of the numbers?

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 13 Sep 2015 01:33

^^ hope this helps:

Level crossings will be shut permanently in Mumbai - December 2014

Presently there are three level crossings Bandra, Jogeshwari, Goregaon on the Western Railway (WR) five level crossings at Kurla, Diva, Thakurli, Kalwa and Ambivli on the Main line and one at Chunabhatti on the Harbour line, on Central Railway (CR). On an average, these crossings open at least 40 times a day for a period of 2 minutes or so.

More here: Mid-Day

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 13 Sep 2015 07:37

Rohit_K wrote:^^ hope this helps:

Level crossings will be shut permanently in Mumbai - December 2014
Presently there are three level crossings Bandra, Jogeshwari, Goregaon on the Western Railway (WR) five level crossings at Kurla, Diva, Thakurli, Kalwa and Ambivli on the Main line and one at Chunabhatti on the Harbour line, on Central Railway (CR). On an average, these crossings open at least 40 times a day for a period of 2 minutes or so.
More here: Mid-Day

Present situation on western line is two active level crossing, one at bandra and other at oshiwara btw Jogeshwari and goregaon. Rest all have been closed and these are manned crossings. Earlier what used to happen is during ganesh visarjan local services esp on western line used to be shut by late afternoon and would be resumed only the next day. But due to construction of over bridge that has been done away with.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Sep 2015 08:29

Thanx rohit & ritesh.