Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 03, 2010

vic · Post by **vic** » 10 Sep 2010 10:21

I think that the rate of Predator strikes has really gone up. From One a month during Bush times, I think we are getting on average of 2 per week. I suppose that there are some strikes that are not even reported. So can we say that Pakistan is facing a UAV strike practically everyother day?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Sep 2010 11:22

http://www.ebookee.com/Pakistan-failed-State_51025.html

Title: Pakistan - failed State
Description:
This book is a collection and review of what has been written about Pakistan in various sources over many years. It is a summary of the experiences and descriptions of many people who have reported or written about Pakistan.
Links
http://rapidshare.com/files/12000885/pfsx13-w.pdf

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Sep 2010 11:38

http://www.ebookee.com/Military-Inc-Ins ... 34707.html

Ayesha Siddiqa, "Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy ".
Publisher: Pluto Press | ISBN: 0745325469 | 2007 edition | PDF | 304 Pages | 14.75 MB

This is a book detailing the secrets of the Military Economics in Pakistan. Military has enfused each and every civil instituition in Pakistan and this books provides authentic information about the whole Military Complex. It's launch has been hindered by the Govt. in Pakistan and is being bought out by the Govt.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Sep 2010 11:50

For a country that ad nauseam pushes its Muslim credentials by proclaiming itself to be an Islamic Republic, Citadel of Islam, Land of the Pure, Haven for the Muslims of the Indian Sub-Continent and suchlike Islamic soundbites, absurd that they cannot even agree to celebrate a Muslim festival on the same day

.

Once again this year, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, the erstwhile NWFP and the rest of the Islamic Republic Pakistan go their separate ways on the date for celebrating the Muslim festival of Ied-ul-Fitr:

Shawwal moon row ends up in two Eids

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Sep 2010 11:59

Acharya wrote:http://www.ebookee.com/Military-Inc-Ins ... 34707.html

Ayesha Siddiqa, "Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy ".
Publisher: Pluto Press | ISBN: 0745325469 | 2007 edition | PDF | 304 Pages | 14.75 MB

This is a book detailing the secrets of the Military Economics in Pakistan. Military has enfused each and every civil instituition in Pakistan and this books provides authentic information about the whole Military Complex. It's launch has been hindered by the Govt. in Pakistan and is being bought out by the Govt.

Easily available from download the usual shady sources.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Sep 2010 12:23

ramana wrote:Lalmohan, Any clue/hint as to where it was?

pls mail me using super mod powers

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Sep 2010 12:31

Nuclear Proliferation in South Asia Crisis behaviour and the bomb
Edited by Sumit Ganguly and S. Paul Kapur

The unfolding of Brasstacks29
The Brasstacks crisis had a clear beginning, middle, and end. It began with an
ambitious Indian military exercise that Pakistani military planners feared could
be the prelude to an invasion of their country. The Pakistani response, in turn, got
the panicked attention of Indian military planners. Finally, high-level diplomacy
diffused the crisis. This section will review these three phases in chronological
sequence.

Indian moves and Pakistani fears
On December 15, 1985, Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and Minister of
State for Defense Arun Singh mooted the idea of a large-scale tri-service military
exercise and tasked the Army Chief of Staff-designate, General Krishnaswamy
Sundarji, to plan it.30 A month and a half later, on January 31, 1986, Sundarji
took over as chief of Army staff.31 Phases I to III of Exercise Brasstacks, largely
meant as conceptual, mapping, communications, and small-scale exercises, began
on July 1, 1986, and were meant to continue until the end of the year, with a
large-scale, corps-level exercise to follow in February–March 1987.32 However,
by October 1986 news reports and op-ed pieces began to appear in the Pakistani
media cautioning about the sheer size of Exercise Brasstacks and the danger that
such a large Indian force close to the border posed for Pakistan.33

On November
Brasstacks as non-nuclear near-war 17
4, 1986, Pakistani Senator Qazi Hussain Ahmed warned that the military exercise
concealed Indian war preparations.34 Around this time, newspapers in India also
began to report train cancellations across Punjab, Haryana, and Jammu; soon there
were stories of large troop movements from these states to Rajasthan, the location
of Brasstacks IV.35 The Indian defense ministry, denying massive troop concentrations
along India’s western border, declared these movements to be routine winter
exercises.36
There seems to have been some initial confusion among senior Pakistani leaders
about the significance of Brasstacks. For instance, Pakistani Minister of State for
Foreign Affairs Zain Noorani remarked on November 13 that India had informed
Pakistan about Brasstacks, adding that he did not think that India would create a
warlike situation.37 Just two days later, Pakistani Foreign Secretary Abdul Sattar
expressed unease at a press conference about Brasstacks and also claimed that
India had only informed Pakistan about the troop movements a few days earlier.38

Sattar’s statement made some Indian officials upset; they claimed that India had
already clarified its position through diplomatic channels and that Sattar’s public
statement was therefore unnecessary.39 On November 16, during a summit of
the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) in Bangalore,
Prime Ministers Muhammad Khan Junejo and Rajiv Gandhi discussed the troop
movements; Junejo left India with the impression that the Indian prime minister
had agreed to reduce the scale of the exercise, largely for India’s own budgetary
reasons.40

On November 15, 1986, the Indian director-general of military operations
(DGMO) informed his Pakistani counterpart about the exercises and troop movements
in Rajasthan. Pakistan at that moment was conducting two military exercises
of its own: Saf-e-Shikan, on the Bahawalpur-Marot section of the Rajasthan
border, was to be concluded by the first week of February, while Flying Horse,
in the Ravi-Chenab sector, was to be completed a month later. (In fact, although
India did not get news of this until the third week of January 1987, combat troops
in Saf-e-Shikan did not stand down as scheduled, and Flying Horse also carried
on well past its planned date of completion and was conducted in the sensitive
Shakargarh bulge area.) Pakistani ground and air elements remained on full alert
even after the completion of the exercises.41

On November 17, the Pakistani DGMO asked his Indian counterpart to
curtail the scope of the exercise and clearly delineate its operational area. The
Indian version of the November 17 conversation is that Pakistan was informed
that Brasstacks was a routine triennial exercise at the corps level; the Pakistani
version of the conversation is that India agreed to curtail and clearly delineate the
exercise, but subsequently did not do so.42 Meanwhile, the Indian prime minister
rejected the idea of Indian and Pakistani observers at each other’s exercises.43 On
December 2, the Pakistani DGMO used the hotline once again to express Pakistan’s
concerns; the Indian response did not reassure the Pakistani side.44 On the
same day, the Pakistani prime minister offered to meet his Indian counterpart if
that would de-escalate tensions.45

18 Varun Sahni
Pakistani countermoves and Indian panic
On December 8, Pakistan informed India through the DGMO hotline that it was
extending Saf-e-Shikan and Flying Horse as a result of Pakistan’s suspicions
about Brasstacks.46 This was also the last time that the DGMO hotline was used
until January 23, 1987, which is when the crisis started de-escalating. It was also
in December that Indian intelligence noticed Pakistani armor movements from
Bahawalpur to positions nearer the border, south of the Sutlej River; elsewhere,
Pakistan’s Army Reserve North had moved to the Shakargarh bulge area. The
Pakistan Air Force continued to operate from its satellite air bases close to the
border, although its Exercise Highmark, conducted in November, was officially
over.47 Remarkably, amid the rising tension, the countries signed an agreement to
not attack each other’s nuclear installations on January 1, 1987.48

By mid-January 1987, it was India’s turn to start panicking. Indian intelligence
reported that a Pakistani armored unit in Army Reserve South had moved north
of the Sutlej River, while elements of Army Reserve North had crossed the Ravi
River in the Shakargarh sector. Thus, there were now Pakistani strike elements
opposite Pathankot, Bhatinda, and Firozpur.49 The Indian minister of state for
defense was briefed by the military chiefs about these moves and in turn briefed
the press on January 16.50 The Indian prime minister, in a press conference on
January 20, linked Pakistani troop movements to Pakistan’s support for the Sikh
separatist movement in Punjab.51

On January 21 there were news reports that Pakistan had moved its Army
Reserve South back across the Sutlej River.52 Nevertheless, on January 23, India
sealed the Punjab segment of its border with Pakistan, citing Pakistani troop movements
and interference in Punjab. On that same day, Indian defense and foreign
affairs ministers met the American, Soviet, and Pakistani ambassadors in New
Delhi to discuss de-escalation possibilities.53

Crisis diplomacy and crisis diffusion
Several important developments took place on January 24. There were troop
movements toward the border by both India and Pakistan.54 In New Delhi, Pakistani
Ambassador Humayun Khan made public Pakistan’s understanding of the
Rajiv-Junejo meeting that had taken place at the Bangalore SAARC summit on
November 16, 1986, and asked why Brasstacks had not been curtailed. Khan also
requested immediate talks for de-escalating the crisis.55 On January 25, India
accepted Khan’s request; President Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, in the meantime,
suggested a summit meeting with Rajiv Gandhi in the course of a cricket match to
be held in India between the two national teams.56 Seemingly unconnected with
these developments, on January 26 Indian military commanders in Punjab called
a civil-military meeting to discuss emergency measures in case conflict broke out
with Pakistan.57

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Sep 2010 12:39

enqyoob wrote:What is "settled areas of KP"? Yes, tubelight is not going on, sorry.

enqyoob, the FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) consists of seven tribal regions or agencies of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, viz. Bajaur Agency, Mohmand Agency, Khyber Agency, Orakzai Agency, Khurram Agency, North Waziristan and South Waziristan and in addition Tribal area around Peshawar District, tribal areas around Kohat district, tribal areas around Bannu district, tribal areas around Lakki Marwat area, tribal areas around Tank area, and tribal areas around Dera Ismail Khan district. The total population is slightly over 3 million and largely Pashtun. Each agency has a federally appointed administrator known as ‘Political Agent’. These are places where the Federal laws of Pakistan do not operate. Besides, there is PATA (Provincially Administered Tribal Areas) of KP. These are Amb, Chitral, Shangla, Buner, Malakand agency, Upper and Lower Dir and Swat. The rest of KP are all 'settled areas'. There are also PATA such as Zob, Loralai & Sibi in Balochistan, Dera Ghazi Khan and Rajanpur in South Punjab.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 Sep 2010 13:25

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... lash-qs-04

Mutual love and affection displayed by faithful during the holy month...12 killed by gunfire..

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 10 Sep 2010 13:28

vic wrote:I think that the rate of Predator strikes has really gone up. From One a month during Bush times, I think we are getting on average of 2 per week. I suppose that there are some strikes that are not even reported. So can we say that Pakistan is facing a UAV strike practically everyother day?

It occurred to me to estimate the cost of the whole predator drone program to see just how much GOTUS is spending on their drone war in KP and estimate cost efficiency.

Assuming 2 strikes per week during Obama's presidency from Jan 2009 to now, the cost of missiles fired alone is about $7M (each Hellfire is about $40k). Assuming 4 drones lost (shot down, malfunction, etc.) cost rises steeply by about $42M (each drone is about $10M), so total drone program cost approaches $50M.

Now if we could figure out number of mujahids killed in these drone strikes, it would be interesting to see the cost per mujahid. As a thought experiment if we assume 5 killed per drone strike, we get 840 killed, so round up and assume 1,000 -- that still means that the US is spending $50,000 to kill a single mujahid. Also note that this doesn't include fuel costs, or other logistics costs.

Certainly seems like an expensive way to send the Talibs to their 72 raisins.

edit: any other data points on the cost of the drone program, along with estimates of casualties (not including civilians)?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Sep 2010 13:37

Profiling Pakistani jihadists
A myth-buster article.

Another frightening reality that emerges from a close study of jihadis is that they do not come from any one particular education stream, family background, region or even economic background. The spirit of jihad transcends these boundaries and stereotypes. In other words, jihadis are now coming from every social, economic and cultural strata of Pakistani society. This means that our country itself has become one big Jihad Inc. The role of mullahs in motivating and recruiting young men for jihad clearly comes out when profiling jihadis but equally important is the fact that economic factors and a breakdown in traditional social structures too are motivating many people to take to jihad.

Like the other article that was posted here wherein the author said clearly that there was support at every level for the Taliban, this should also be internalized. Long back, it was proved that madraseh were not the majority suppliers of the jihadists and mainstream schools contributed more. The current article says that the urge for jihad is an all-permeating feeling among the Pakistanis.

Jihad in this part of the world is seen as lending a sense of purpose to the lives of many people who otherwise would be pushovers in society. One major draw for jihadis in Pakistan is the clout a religious militant enjoys with the law enforcement agencies. A black tinted four-by-four and a suspicious number plate with occupants sporting militia-style clothing, long hair and beards is bound to arouse suspicion and get the vehicle pulled over at any check post. If you are a religious militant, however, you are simply waved through with a level of ‘respect’ unthinkable for most Pakistanis. Obviously, being above the law holds great appeal for the jobless. The militant organisation gives otherwise powerless men a strong sense of identity in an increasingly fragmented social structure.

Only recently a research paper published on the very subject reveals that a vast number of recruits come from formal schools and lack any real religious knowledge or motivation. The primary cause behind militancy, it is argued, is unemployment and poverty. There are the middle class jihadis like Shehzad Tanvir or Sheikh Omar, who has been convicted of murdering Daniel Pearl. There is a popular misconception that young Pakistani men who volunteer for jihad invariably do so out of a lack of viable economic options. This is particularly untrue in Karachi where most budding jihadis hail from middle, upper middle or even upper class families. A similar trend prevails in other large cities that, in turn, explodes another myth that Pakistan’s ‘non-state actors’ are largely confined to the country’s tribal and northern areas.

“I am proud of my son although the only regret I have is that I do not have another son to send for this noble cause,” says a middle-aged man whose only son is believed dead somewhere in Afghanistan.

One would imagine that most of those planning to take part in the holy war would be from the militant cadres of jihadi organisations. However, it has become patently obvious that this modern version of the David and Goliath fable has an emotive appeal across the spectrum of Pakistani society too. Many, even those who do not agree with the Taliban’s obscurantist version of Islam, have found inspiration in the obdurate refusal of one of the world’s poorest Muslim countries to give in to the demands of the only global superpower.

Finally, there is the myth and misconception that jihadis are only Pashtuns and Punjabis. The records provided by different jihadi organisations and research material available show that the number of martyrs from Sindh has already touched 500 in the FATA region alone. In the early 2000s, when our proxies were primarily targeted towards the east, 85 of the Jaish-e-Mohammad, 175 of Hizbul Mujahideen and 51 of Lashkar-e-Islam were Sindhi-speaking jihadis. In the case of Balochistan, the list of casualties published by various jihadi organisations shows that from 1999 to March 2002, there were 112 so-called martyrs from Balochistan, most of whom died in Afghanistan, indicating that the jihad phenomenon in Pakistan has gone viral in almost every segment of our society.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 10 Sep 2010 14:16

I was talking to people who are knowledgeable of Pakistans economy, yesterday. What is that, which gives the politicians and the generals, that, courage, to sit smugly quiet, when as we all agreed, the economy is going into shambles?
the best answer i received was that, Pakistan some how feels that the USA, will not let them fail? Obama has invested far too much in Pakistan, that it would be difficult for them, not bail out Pakistan. The think tanks in Pakistan they say are now looking at ways and means so that, the debt is cancelled, fully! this is dangerous thoughts. We are very well aware, how these guys will nuke their own, nation, to prevent india from winning a war. they are thinking, about ways and means to startle the world well enough so that their debts get cancelled! my fears are over the commonwealth games!

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 10 Sep 2010 14:20

a 26/11 kind of incident, and an indian retaliation, followed with a nuke over new delhi, and one back in islamabad. they will have enough sympathy from the world to get over their debts. im not saying this jokingly, these guys are capable of thinking in much worse ways.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Sep 2010 14:30

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Gilles Dorronsoro of the Carnegie Endowment for Peace on the Islamic terrorist supporting habits of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Excerpt:

Worsening Outlook in Afghanistan

Gilles Dorronsoro
Q&A, SEPTEMBER 9, 2010 …………….

What role is Pakistan playing in the war in Afghanistan? Can the United States trust the Pakistani government and military?

It’s clear that the Pakistanis are still supporting the Taliban. This was known well before WikiLeaks disclosed secret documents detailing supposed links between the Pakistani military and Taliban.

In February, the Taliban’s operational commander, Abdul Ghani Baradar, was arrested in Karachi. As the second-ranking Taliban official after Mullah Muhammad Omar, the arrest was heralded as Islamabad’s new devotion to eradicating the Taliban and fighting terrorism. But the arrest was not a change in strategy, it was designed to cut off secret peace talks between Kabul and Baradar that left out Pakistan. The Taliban’s connections with the Pakistani military persist.

U.S. policy on Pakistan, however, is disconnected from reality. Washington continues to funnel money to the Pakistani government to move against the Afghan Taliban—but this is yesterday’s policy. It’s far too late for the Pakistani army to reverse course. And even if Washington got what it wanted and high-level Taliban leaders were arrested, it would not kill the insurgency. The Taliban are too strong and the remaining players in Afghanistan will refuse to negotiate.

In fact, if Islamabad loses influence over the Afghan Taliban, it will be a loss for Washington. Instead of trying to disconnect the Pakistani government from the Taliban, the United States should use the links to start talking. The United States must start using the situation to its own advantage.

Read it All

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Sep 2010 14:36

^^^ i ask a question that i have already asked: where is the taliban's supply chain?

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 10 Sep 2010 14:38

Abhijit - nice hypothesis of considering history and socio-cultural 'dna' as memes! Original idea? I think this can form an interesting framework to study macro events.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 10 Sep 2010 15:09

Taliban and US get down to talks By Syed Saleem Shahzad

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 10 Sep 2010 15:33

Death toll in Pakistan blast touches five

The death toll in a bomb attack outside the home of a provincial minister in southwest Pakistan has risen to five, officials said today.

Police said the blast was caused by an explosive device planted in an SUV parked inside the house.

However, some officials of the bomb disposal squad contended that the attack was carried out by a suicide bomber.

---

ISI behind the blast ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Sep 2010 15:37

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ i ask a question that i have already asked: where is the taliban's supply chain?

Lalmohan, if by supply chain you mean source of income, then the prime source is narcotics. The ISI is deeply involved so that the export goes unhindered.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Sep 2010 15:43

no sir, i mean the flow of weapons and ammunition

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 10 Sep 2010 16:15

shiv wrote:
General Hamid Gul, a former director general of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), spoke to Asia Times Online about the challenges ahead for Pakistan.

"The situation is very complex. Nobody is in a position to bring about any change, not even the military," said Gul, who recently joined the editorial board of directors of Veterans Today, a network of web sites that serves the veterans community of the US military.
Veterans today is:
http://www.veteranstodaynetwork.com/
We are a full service network of 63 web sites that service the U.S. Military Veterans Community
And Hamid Gul - a so called anti-West hawk and Taliban supporter actually gets employed by these guys. Flipping heck - see the depth of love for Pakistan's extremists that the US maintains

http://www.veteranstodaynetwork.com/201 ... day-board/
Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com) is pleased to announce the appointment of Lt. General Hamid Gul, former head of Pakistan’s ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence), to its Editorial Board of Directors, joining, among others, Jeff Gates, Dr. Alan Sabrosky, Col. Jim Hanke, Gordon Duff, Khalil Nouri and Col. Eugene Khrushchev.

Gul began his military career in 1958 and helped lead forces allied to the United States during the effort to end the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Hamid Gul Veterans Today Board

Controversial Spy Cheif, Often Misquoted, Joins Veterans Today

Veterans Today believes that General Hamid Gul, one of the most controversial figures of our era, is the kind of person we need, a true friend to American veterans and our military, someone to consistently tells the truth. With America a nation threatened on all sides, led into disaster by liars, weaklings and those with questionable foreign allegiances, Gul’s “straight talk” and “shooting from the hip” has been a breath of fresh air for those Americans lucky enough to hear his unedited and undistorted views. Gul has stuck to the truth even when demonized for it.

Hamid Gul is one of the most respected authorities on the Middle East and South Asia, continually turned to by western military and intelligence leaders when the chips are down. With lifelong personal friendships that stretch the great divide from the Pentagon to Langley and beyond and wide respect from elements critical of the United States, Gul has been an enigmatic figure, one often seen as a threat to the “party line” scripted by Washington’s powerful Israel lobby.
Wow!

shiv wrote:
James B wrote:Such Gup from TFT

It's also felt that if the Americans withdraw from Aghanistan, the country will be partitioned with the north going to the Alliance, and the south going to the Taliban. After that, FATA will be a natural first domino to fall. And the Taliban will not stop at that. They will covet the settled areas of KP too. May God have mercy on us all.
Aha - some dimbulb tubelights are blinking on...

Taking the liberty to club both posts but has hamid gul crossed over to americans.

Could Hamid Gul be planning to be father of Pashtunistan nation?

Chief source of income for people like hamid gul is narcotics trade and americans has recently adopted more softer approach towards drug trade in Afghanistan. In lieu for a smooth withdrawal and to safeguard their energy interests are Americans going to erase the Durand line and give birth to a new nation Pasthunistan?

Recall the death of usman punjabi at the hands of pasthun taliban recently.
Are punjabi taliban being weeded out from pasthun area?

These days pasthuns and hamid gul are becoming the new hate magnet for pakjabi youtubers
check this channel for Pakjabi views on pasthuns http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAshawinify
Alongwith the usual trash talking goes on to call pasthuns as jews and is angry with hamid gul and zaid hamid

but i do support nato troops in afghanistan killing those ******** pasthuns the common enemy of pakistan.

watch out for these ******** pashtuns.
they all support pathan taliban!;;;

hamid gul (rtd-isi) (son of a bitch rants all the time on tv but doesnt know shit about isi)

zaid hamid.( the joker of pathans )

gen pasha isi

maluna fazal ur rehman (fat ******** pathan killer of punjabis)

lol pashtuns say punjabis are dal eaters.
we eat more meat than afghani, tagik mongol, pathani jew or hindu indians.

pashtuns can only eat rocks and ****** goats. hahahaha funny pathan jews

you pasthun jews blow ur stinky bodies up against goats and rocks it creates a sense of calm.

i am not afraid of any pashtun ****** honestly apart from the midget pathan jewish suicide bombers which wreck havoc against cvilians i got no dar (fear)from any other hairy pasthun mt men

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Sep 2010 16:31

lol pashtuns say punjabis are dal eaters.
we eat more meat than afghani, tagik mongol, pathani jew or hindu indians.

sounds like another one of those pakjabi traits. They seem to think that eating more meat means being more masculine or something.
The bloke's youtube channel has him describing himself as (the first line is:)

i am a tall punjabi, aim is to unite all punjabis and defend the name,interests of punjab against the pasthun jews ,sikhs, hindus or any other.

I wonder if he were a short punjabi would his aim be different?
Is there a way to report hate speech to youtube authorities? if enough people do this, they might put him out of his misery.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Sep 2010 17:05

I wonder if this was posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQtJc8b6 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5sQHtw1 ... re=related

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 10 Sep 2010 17:35

menon s wrote:a 26/11 kind of incident, and an indian retaliation, followed with a nuke over new delhi, and one back in islamabad. they will have enough sympathy from the world to get over their debts. im not saying this jokingly, these guys are capable of thinking in much worse ways.

Menon ji, I agree with you on paki line of thought but to think that amirkhan or EU can just sit and cancel debts is way too far fetched. There are few reasons I can think of. First of all unkil is in deep recession. Ombaba just announced a $50 B package to put people to work and that itself has not gone down too well here in the beltway. Second EU itself is hotch potch organization which cannot take decisions in one voice. Greece bail out was an example we need to remember. Germany opposed it tooth and nail where as Britain & France were supporting it. Same was true for iceland. They have enough problems of their own to be really pushing for pakis. Plus yesterdays report on no decision on trade concession is a marker for what we can expect. Third pakis have a debt of $54B right now. I am not sure how its broken down. But I am sure a large chunk of it is held by agencies (namely World Bank & IMF) now these agencies have all countries as stakeholders and your votes are decided based on your stake in these agencies. Unkil controls majority stake as usual. Now yes WEST can ramrod a concession package via WB & IMF using its clout but that would make other countries cry fowl that why are we excluded from this meharbaani. Same is true with emerging stakeholders like India Brazil Russia who might think unkil is pushing its agenda using their money so the new souce of money is stemmed off and that reduces the clout of these organizations.

IMHO here is maximum I can expect. There will be some restructuring of agency loans. Some more soft loans will be provided to inject liquidity into paki books. All this will allow pakis to survive for few more months. Some bilateral loans from western countries might be written off but that depends on host countries ability to not rile up its own public. Example UQ cannot do much at the moment considering its own ecomnimic health. Germany can but Merekel is not too keen. Scandinavin countries will mostly do it but those amounts are pretty tiny. Cheena for certain will never do it unless pakis sell them more territory in GB or few mines in Balochistan.

I think babus in S Block need to keep up the pressure on western governments and media just to ensure no one really even thinks of such stupid move.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2010 17:53

>>lol pashtuns say punjabis are dal eaters.
>>we eat more meat than afghani, tagik mongol, pathani, jew or hindu indians.

priceless.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Sep 2010 17:58

The dire situation in Pureland makes even a die-hard jihadi supporter like Ejaz Haider to say the following in TFT:

Finally, we have to deal with our favourite bugbear – India. Pakistan needs a major paradigm shift on India. Much of what is happening today can be traced back to Pakistan’s India policy. That policy needs a review, immediately. Discerning analysts within India would be willing to cooperate. They also understand how important it is for their own survival. But the onus of responsibility for manifesting the shift is on Pakistan.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 10 Sep 2010 18:03

SSridhar wrote:A myth-buster article.

Another frightening reality that emerges from a close study of jihadis is that they do not come from any one particular education stream, family background, region or even economic background. The spirit of jihad transcends these boundaries and stereotypes. In other words, jihadis are now coming from every social, economic and cultural strata of Pakistani society. This means that our country itself has become one big Jihad Inc. The role of mullahs in motivating and recruiting young men for jihad clearly comes out when profiling jihadis but equally important is the fact that economic factors and a breakdown in traditional social structures too are motivating many people to take to jihad.

I know that we don’t like to drag India into comparison here. Please indulge me a bit though…

Oh my! What a difference! I was just talking with my neighbour about how people from a variety of background are becoming entrepreneurs in India. It seems like everyone wants to start their own business now a days. I personally know people with absolutely no money get loans to start their own business these days, people who bet everything they own to the last penny and run a successful business. 1000s of small Farmers who would have had to depend on middleman to sell their harvest, now sell it directly to the public (in TN via Govt has established Farmer's market called Uzhavar sandhai. Free transportation, no rent, free electronic scale). There is a lot of frustration in India about how various things don’t work the way it should, but you cannot miss the overwhelming sense of optimism here as well.

For India, we can rewrite the above para to read,

Another exciting reality that emerges from a close study of entrepreneurs is that they do not come from any one particular education stream, family background, region or even economic background. The spirit of entrepreneurship transcends these boundaries and stereotypes. In other words, entrepreneurs are now coming from every social, economic and cultural stratum of Indian society . This means that our country itself has become one big Entrepreneurs Inc.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 Sep 2010 19:01

SSridhar wrote: They also understand how important it is for their own survival.

But he could not avoid adding this sentence, the Pakbaric terrorist animal that he is...what we need for survival is a strong army and enough supply of bullets to take care of any Paki animal that crosses the border...

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 Sep 2010 19:03

From Yawn report on the ISI attack on Baloch minister....

Mr Kurd said he had received no threat from anyone. But, he added, he knew who could be behind the attack. “We are tribal people and consider an attack on a house a big crime. We will respond with full force

That's the spirit...

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 Sep 2010 19:06

SSridhar wrote:
shravan wrote:CJCSC Gen.Tariq Majeed not interested in service extension
Aha moment for me. Now, the jigsaw puzzle is clearing. .

rats are leaving ship??

I have no desire for an extension and would very much like to retire on due date

I want to keep my money and enjoy it, the 72 can wait...heaven is always full of them..

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Sep 2010 19:27

menon s wrote:a 26/11 kind of incident, and an indian retaliation, followed with a nuke over new delhi, and one back in islamabad. they will have enough sympathy from the world to get over their debts. im not saying this jokingly, these guys are capable of thinking in much worse ways.

A serious alternative would be for India to preemptively nuke them with multiple strikes. It will be ok for Pakis to get all the sympathy and debt forgiveness is such a scenario.

It is humane to save as many innocent Indian lives as possible when Pamis are hellbent on going nuke-terrorist to get their debts forgiven

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Sep 2010 19:53

Fridin is ending. What have we to show for it?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 10 Sep 2010 19:56

ISAF mortar fire kills three in Pakistan

MIRANSHAH: Shells fired by coalition forces in Afghanistan on Friday killed at least three people across the border in Pakistan, officials said.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Sep 2010 20:06

shravan wrote:ISAF mortar fire kills three in Pakistan

MIRANSHAH: Shells fired by coalition forces in Afghanistan on Friday killed at least three people across the border in Pakistan, officials said.

Nonsense. There was no ISAF firing because of Ramzan.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 10 Sep 2010 20:11

shiv wrote:Fridin is ending. What have we to show for it?

Sorry for slacking off on behalf of fellow Jehadis!!! I am acknowledging that a serious mistake has been committed and we will try our very best to make it up next week. It is stupid insensitive and embarassing, but sometimes we get demotivated by rain and other times we are just plain lazy. Sometimes we get carried away counting our 72s before it is ours!!!

Here are a few offerings that will hopefully keep you satisfied for a while...
Kotli bus accident kills at least seven

KOTLI: At least seven people were killed on Friday after a passenger bus plunged into a deep ravine in Azad Kashmir’s Kotli district, television reports said.

Over 30 people were injured in the accident and the death toll was expected to rise.

According to reports, some 50 passengers were on board the bus when it plunged into the ravine.

At least 12 killed in Kurram tribal clash

PARACHINAR: At least 12 people were killed in a clash between two tribes in a row over the distribution of irrigation water in Pakistan’s Kurram tribal region on Friday, reports quoted officials and residents as saying.

The clash occurred between the Shalozan and Shalozan Tangi tribes in upper Kurram.

Clashes between the two tribes had been going on for a week and at least 27 people have been killed as a result. More than 40 people have been injured in the clashes.

Heavy arms were used in fighting and several people were also injured during today's clash

Hopefully Allah will forgive us for this great sin!

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 10 Sep 2010 20:31

Saar, upgrading the count to 20 for Kotli.

please don't loose your trust in us.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 10 Sep 2010 20:32

Something wierd in Nation's reporting today(I mean, besides the usual wierdness). They have openly started calling US as invaders now, referring to Taliban website. I guess the moderator is taking a day off there.

8 combined French and local puppets killed 5 injured in clashes with Afghan Taliban
6 US invaders killed, 3 wounded as two US tanks eliminated in Balkh
4 American invaders killed, 3 injured in Kandahar
US tank destroyed in Lashkar Gah
Two US invaders killed in Paktia

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Sep 2010 20:49

Acharya wrote: The unfolding of Brasstacks29

So even a military exercise can unravel into a potential nuke-flushpoint huh...

This validates what Hari Seldon-ji (IIRC) said somewhere else. Pakis will keep lowering the nuke-threshold, one day the very existence of Bharat will become the red line.

Carl_T garu, are you reading?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2010 21:18

the Australian:

Spot-fixing probe nets new Pakistani

THE investigation into spot fixing has broadened with revelations that Scotland Yard will interview bowler Wahab Riaz over the Lord's Test two weeks ago, while Pakistan cricket chief Ijaz Butt claims the money found in Salman Butt's room during a police raid was for the opening of an ice-cream parlour.

Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir and Butt have all been questioned and released eight days ago.

Police and customs officials have also interrogated player agent and alleged master mind Mazhar Majeed.

Kamran Akmal is also said to have been under notice from the International Cricket Council's Anti-Corruption and Security Unit for incidents pre-dating the Lord's Test.

Pakistan Cricket Board chairman Butt revealed that Riaz, who appears in photographs from the News of the World sting parading about in Majeed's jacket which was stuffed with money will be interviewed by Scotland Yard on Tuesday.

"We have made sure that Wahab will be available for the questioning by police on September 14," Butt said.

Riaz made his debut in The Oval Test and has continued to play in the limited-over series, although he was dropped for the second Twenty20, while the other three have been suspended and charged by the ICC over the alleged spot-fixing.

Butt also detailed the amounts of money found in the players' rooms during the police raid.

"Salman (Butt) had pound stg. 2500 in his room and this was explained to the police," Ijaz said. "It was the advance of appearance money given to him by Mazhar Majeed for the opening of an ice cream parlour. Amir had pound stg. 1500 on him from tour allowances. Asif had no money on him."

The agent Majeed has three active companies, one of which is an ice-cream parlour, but it is unknown if it was this business that paid Butt.

The PCB chief continues to back the players under suspicion.

"No incriminating material has been shared with us," Ijaz Butt said. "I personally feel after a nine-hour interview if something was there they would have been arrested. I am pretty confident that because of that, in the next few days, the boys will be able to return."

Meanwhile the three players charged by the ICC and provisionally suspended have been cleared by police to return to Pakistan under certain conditions. Pakistan's interior minister Rehman Malik said the government would provide written assurance the trio would be available if needed for further investigation.

"We have spoken to Scotland Yard, and the (Pakistan) high commissioner to the UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, has also been in talks with them and they have agreed that the players can return to Pakistan," Malik said.

The Pakistan Cricket Board has also issued instructions that all player agents must be approved by the board.

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Sep 2010 21:39

THE investigation into spot fixing has broadened with revelations that Scotland Yard will interview bowler Wahab Riaz over the Lord's Test two weeks ago, while Pakistan cricket chief Ijaz Butt claims the money found in Salman Butt's room during a police raid was for the opening of an ice-cream parlour.

Ah, the Pakis and the yarns they spin when caught with their pants down...Where would BRF be without these buffoons to the west to provide us with daily entertainment?