Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 05 Jan 2013 21:39

Lalmohan, it may not be 100% applicable but it is useful. Very useful - my sister takes the same precautions.

Mort Walker, it isn't even just in India. Seen it everywhere. We all need to change and where possible do something.

What concerns me is that people are interpreting valid criticism as an "attack on Indian culture".

If we do not recognize that patriarchy and endemic discrimination against women has led to misogyny, we have failed this young woman.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Jan 2013 22:21

http://aajtak.intoday.in/story/gang-rap ... 17865.html

IPC 302 missing from charge sheet.

Is govt obliged to hide identity of the minor, is any advocate/vakeel out there?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 05 Jan 2013 23:07

Can someone spell out the implications of helping an unknown injured person lying by the roadside ? There is a fear of being harrassed by the police which is unfounded or greatly magnified. If these things are simplified it can be publicised on FB increasing the awareness that helping doesnt hurt much

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 05 Jan 2013 23:12

^^

This is a crowd psychology issue. One of Malcolm Gladwell's books (Blink IIRC) describes New Yorkers ignoring similar calls for help, because each onlooker thought someone else would help. The solution described was for the person needing help to approach one specific onlooker and explicitly ask for help, as that leaves no room for ambiguity.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 05 Jan 2013 23:37

suryag wrote:Can someone spell out the implications of helping an unknown injured person lying by the roadside ? There is a fear of being harrassed by the police which is unfounded or greatly magnified. If these things are simplified it can be publicised on FB increasing the awareness that helping doesnt hurt much

It is a yes and no. Personally, I have helped people on the road, because I do have some influence to pull if things go south.

Ten years ago, I broke a women's legs with my bike's crash bar (she jumped in front of me, while I was passing somebody else). I could have sped away. I stopped. I was immediately mobbed by everyone claiming to be her relative and started intimidating me. I shoved them back and hailed an auto and told the crowd that they can either keep arguing with me or keep my bike as security, while I take the women to hospital. We took the lady to the nearby hospital where it turns out that her father was also admitted and she was just out to get some medicine. I felt really bad that I put her next to her dad.

I called up my dealer guys (heavy set mechanics etc) and they came with me to the scene of the accident and we basically told them that we are not giving them a single paisa. And that we will be contacting the police and put this medical claim on the bike's insurance. I knew the police as well in that town (the DSP was my customer and a distant relative from my community after all). They did the 'arrest and release' formality. And I had to then show up in court for the case where I basically said 'Yes' to the judges question that 'did you hit her'. He fined me IIRC 3000 Rs. And I had to visit the insurance office guy and set him up to clear everything without hold ups.

Each one of these places were mired with confusions and traps and several steps or people you have to deal with for one stupid thing and potential problems that will be thrown at you if you are not influential. And you need to have lots of time for multiple visits or waiting while they do their thing (which sometimes they do just to gauge you and see how you react). Everywhere I can see the change in attitude once you tell them who you know.

I am not a saint who did this out of the good of my heart, but rather a knowledge that I can handle anything because of my contacts and influence and I can see why people are intimidated by police and court and would go to the point of letting somebody suffer or die - than deal with police/court.

Just the fact that one has to go to a police station can put people off. They have such a reputation and deserved in most cases. Things have changed in some stations these days though. I went to a station in OMR and can see a sea change in attitude compared to ten years back. Younger guys try to be professional.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jan 2013 23:46

IndraD wrote:http://aajtak.intoday.in/story/gang-rap ... 17865.html

IPC 302 missing from charge sheet.

Is govt obliged to hide identity of the minor, is any advocate/vakeel out there?

Not a Lawyer though.

It could be genuine mistake on index pages. The main charge sheet does mention 302 which deals with punishment for murder.
Juvenile is not in the Charge sheet. For him application is laid before the Juvenile Board. however he would be mentioned in charge sheet for his role in the crime.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jan 2013 00:27

Arjun wrote:Bade: started railing against the stand that the rape issue was a failure of the Delhi Congress government. Theo Fidel, Vina, Ekalavya: all started throwing mud on Indian culture & Hindutva as the bane of the problem, to deflect attention from the Delhi government's failure....

^^^ further, never an outrage against Sonia mao!

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jan 2013 00:33

Gus wrote:Just the fact that one has to go to a police station can put people off. They have such a reputation and deserved in most cases. Things have changed in some stations these days though. I went to a station in OMR and can see a sea change in attitude compared to ten years back. Younger guys try to be professional.

I have only bad memories of the bolice. Women bolice included. However they are still better than the vermins called IAS babus eating away at the structure like termites. Where is the outrage from the babudom? I do not have any kind words for them. The whole bolice, babu, judge, neta, jholawala and poverty wallas have a cozy relationship sucking away blood from the people.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 06 Jan 2013 01:00

Gus,

That sounds like a horror show.

Rs 3000 for an accident that was clearly not your fault. What was she doing in the middle of the street?
I'm surprised you survived the 'mob'. Usually in these situations the better dressed party loses. If any of the local chokra's had joined in they would almost certainly have tried to rough you up. My opinion is never confront a mob. If you need to, drive straight to the local police station and come back with a cop only. Lots of people don't stop precisely because of this fear of random mobs. There have been many cases reported of good samaritans being lynched by the the clueless mob that forms.

Vinod Ji · Post by **Vinod Ji** » 06 Jan 2013 01:05

--self deleted--

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 06 Jan 2013 01:07

A little different in Trinidad, the guilty party comes out with a gun and threatens you or tries to assault you and then when you go to the police station, you find that he knows everyone there and has bribed them. Happened to my sister.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 06 Jan 2013 01:27

I was told by an activist friend long back that when you drive in highways in the night, and if you hear a woman crying for help or woman running on the road towards your car for help, you should not stop. Most of the time that would be a set up and when you stop and get out to help, a group of local robbers would pounce on you. I claimed he had personal experience in UP. This is one unfortunate situation where many people are afraid to help the needy when nobody is present. If you drive in the night and see a girl's body on the road, you really don't know whether that is genuine or trap. Best thing is to call and inform the police. In US, if you see a crime, people are adviced not to interfere, but pretend that you did not see it, and then call 911. One reason is that you don't know what kind of weapon the criminal carries.

About the mob attack, Theo is true. Once a tempo hit my cousin's bike in Delhi. It was a minor hit the bike fell and the tail lamp broke. While he was talking to the driver and associates, one guy came from the crowd and started beating the driver left and right so that he started bleeding. Even my cousin started feeling bad about it. Then someone from the crowd asked him whether he knew this person. When he said no, the crowd turned against him but he fled the scene immediately. Such psychos do exist everywhere.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Jan 2013 01:43

Good Slide Show onDelhi Outraged Over Gang-Rape

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 06 Jan 2013 02:13

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/i-tho ... /1055151/2

On the "Juvenile"
Since his arrest, the police have come twice to the village. The first time was to inform his parents about the arrest. Four days ago, police returned to conduct an inquiry into his date of birth which, according to a school certificate, makes him four months short of 18 years.

Some in the village believe he is older. “He left the village eleven years ago. How is it possible for a six-year-old to leave the village for work in Delhi,” asked a resident. The local school is shut and the headmaster can’t be traced. He has even switched off his mobile phone.

Police have said they will wait for the report of an ossification test and if it is proved that the accused is not a juvenile, they will press charges relating to murder, rape and assault.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 06 Jan 2013 02:22

shyam wrote:I was told by an activist friend long back that when you drive in highways in the night, and if you hear a woman crying for help or woman running on the road towards your car for help, you should not stop. Most of the time that would be a set up and when you stop and get out to help, a group of local robbers would pounce on you. I claimed he had personal experience in UP. This is one unfortunate situation where many people are afraid to help the needy when nobody is present. If you drive in the night and see a girl's body on the road, you really don't know whether that is genuine or trap. Best thing is to call and inform the police. In US, if you see a crime, people are adviced not to interfere, but pretend that you did not see it, and then call 911. One reason is that you don't know what kind of weapon the criminal carries.

About the mob attack, Theo is true. Once a tempo hit my cousin's bike in Delhi. It was a minor hit the bike fell and the tail lamp broke. While he was talking to the driver and associates, one guy came from the crowd and started beating the driver left and right so that he started bleeding. Even my cousin started feeling bad about it. Then someone from the crowd asked him whether he knew this person. When he said no, the crowd turned against him but he fled the scene immediately. Such psychos do exist everywhere.

I've seen a few beatings but the most dramatic description is in the book 'Shantharam'. It seems very believable. (am of course assuming Jingoes have read it, I first heard of the book on BRF

).

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Jan 2013 02:38

Media helping Govt replace gangrape reality with mythology

The case against Zee News for airing interview of her friend is proof that it is no longer about protecting the victim's identify. It is about obliterating her memory

http://governancenow.com/news/regular-s ... -mythology

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 06 Jan 2013 02:40

disha wrote:
Arjun wrote:Bade: started railing against the stand that the rape issue was a failure of the Delhi Congress government. Theo Fidel, Vina, Ekalavya: all started throwing mud on Indian culture & Hindutva as the bane of the problem, to deflect attention from the Delhi government's failure....
^^^ further, never an outrage against Sonia mao!

What is the meaning of this post with a reference to me ??? I did not see Arjun's post either.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 06 Jan 2013 04:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75uMQgSAtJU

Zee interview with Victim's friend. It is clear, the Delhibaaz's are planning to bury the whole matter without putting any face to victim or the culprits

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2013 05:53

I was giving benefit of doubt. I also see how broad and deep the problems are.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 06 Jan 2013 05:58

India gang rape victim's father: I want the world to know my daughter's name is Jyoti Singh Pandey

Badri Singh Pandey, father of Jyoti Singh Pandey

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-1521289

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2013 06:00

Namaste Shri Pandeyji.

Please accept our condolences on your loss. It is also our loss.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2013 06:03

Will DP try to file a case against UK Mirror?

Rascals are good only at intimidating and collecting hafta from locals.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 06 Jan 2013 06:20

It is what happens when the letter of the law is twisted without appreciating its spirit. A law designed to prevent witness IDs from being revealed leading to intimidation (as with victims) is now being used to harass.

Forget politics. These are Policetricks.

Happens in T&T as well.

Saving grace of this case is the media attention.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jan 2013 06:48

Sushupti wrote:India gang rape victim's father: I want the world to know my daughter's name is Jyoti Singh Pandey

Badri Singh Pandey, father of Jyoti Singh Pandey

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-1521289

Jyoti was snuffed out. Sad indeed.

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Jan 2013 06:59

My thoughts on why DP is trying to suppress this:

1. The victim seems to be a brahmin.
2. Most vicious attacker is a muslim.

This may become a polarising issue like RJB or the Godhra Train burning., backed with massive corruption and mis-governance and hence all the appartchiks (boot lickers) of the Sonia mao out in full force blaming the Hindus and the Indians. Hence the CongI working hard to suppress the news and make it die down.

Outraged. This should not be forgotten or forgiven.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 06 Jan 2013 07:08

Sushupti wrote:India gang rape victim's father: I want the world to know my daughter's name is Jyoti Singh Pandey

Badri Singh Pandey, father of Jyoti Singh Pandey

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-1521289

Good that the real name has finally been released. No more need to deal with fake names assigned by media companies and their anonymous employees. (I was always a bit uncomfortable using these names.....who exactly in the TV/newspaper company came up with the name and why that name......this somehow bothered me.).

Shri Pandeyji can rest assured (and I know this is no consolation to him and his family on the catastrophe they suffered) that his daughter's name will always be remembered with respect. And it will not be forgotten.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 06 Jan 2013 07:48

Auto driver threatens TOI reporter with worst violence

There is a specific problem with the transport system in Delhi. This is not a riot situation, but would be worth deploying another force, since the regular police are not able to keep up.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 06 Jan 2013 08:09

They are talking about this,

is-the-sixth-offender-really-juvenile?

Why would they rely on biological age if its the mental maturity of this said 'Juvenile' that matters in this crime, are they no psycho-metric tests to determine the mental age of a Juvenile who can deal with the world as an adult? these aren't IQ tests.

In Gen VK Singh's case the age determinant for courts' was his matriculation record and DOB entered at the start of his military career, it never was his biological DOB.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 06 Jan 2013 08:17

disha wrote:My thoughts on why DP is trying to suppress this:

1. The victim seems to be a brahmin.
2. Most vicious attacker is a muslim.

This may become a polarising issue like RJB or the Godhra Train burning., backed with massive corruption and mis-governance and hence all the appartchiks (boot lickers) of the Sonia mao out in full force blaming the Hindus and the Indians. Hence the CongI working hard to suppress the news and make it die down.

Outraged. This should not be forgotten or forgiven.

From day one I Have mentioned something is not adding up.
What you mentioned is absolutely right.
Now it is getting clearer. Notice my earlier post. The juvenile ran away from home 11 years ago, so at age 6 ? Absolute nonsense. If the kid ran away at 13-14,he should be at least 24-25 now and as per the male friend played a major part in trapping and playing the predominant/ring leader role in the whole act.

The congis may now doctor the bone test report and prove him to be juvenile. More than this guy it is the congis whom we need to spit at...aak thoo

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Jan 2013 08:21

SC commutes death to life in another case which is termed 'very heinous and brutal' by itself
We have judges & Presidents who through their extraordinary leniency make this country ungoverned and lawless and then newspapers and human rights groups who clamour for more of the same.

The SC said that in cases of capital punishment, reformation was a relevant criterion. . .The SC said life imprisonment shall be for life.

I do not know how this 'reformed man' would be useful to the society if he is going to spend all his life time in a jail.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 06 Jan 2013 08:23

SriKumar wrote:
Sushupti wrote:India gang rape victim's father: I want the world to know my daughter's name is Jyoti Singh Pandey

Badri Singh Pandey, father of Jyoti Singh Pandey

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-1521289
Good that the real name has finally been released. No more need to deal with fake names assigned by media companies and their anonymous employees. (I was always a bit uncomfortable using these names.....who exactly in the TV/newspaper company came up with the name and why that name......this somehow bothered me.).

Shri Pandeyji can rest assured (and I know this is no consolation to him and his family on the catastrophe they suffered) that his daughter's name will always be remembered with respect. And it will not be forgotten.

Sri
The girl fought to her best against the attackers and died as a brave person even though she was raped she is a hero in our eyes. Our society will remember her for ages to come with deep respect.she did wake up a sleeping nation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2013 08:26

So Brahmin girl raped by a Muslim is the fault of Hinduism?

Mahesh Butt verily you speak from your behind. And all those of his ilk.

The friend is from Gorakhpur and we have BRF members from that town and will get verification.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 06 Jan 2013 08:34

post deleted.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Jan 2013 08:45

I predict that Pandey will be dropped forthwith and this young woman would be referred to as Jyoti Singh only going forward. Ala the reverse of Ms. Suzanne Arundhati Roy who identifies herself as Arundhati Roy.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 06 Jan 2013 08:47

The comment by RSS Chief about India and Bharat, he meant something different which the media cannot understand. If he meant India means Urban area and Bharat means Rural India, then even he is wrong. Let's look at what is India and what is Bharat. The solution to such incidents lies in Bharat, to be Dharmic.

One article that gives a view of the difference can be found here.
Why the secular English media hates Modi
http://newindianexpress.com/opinion/article1399885.ece

What is India? If you go by the definition of English media, it is an artificial country that should not have happened, an ungovernable country where religion, caste and ethnic identity matter more than humanity. Besides, most people who subscribe to the English media world-view have a 67-year-old Nehruvian Network to fall back upon, if required. What do I mean by the Nehruvian Network? This is something that has been working in India since before 1947. It is a set of ideas and people who, deep down, think that the system set up by the British was the best. They are the ultimate Brown Sahebs, convinced that Indians need a bit of civilisation. They snort, snigger when a politician like Uma Bharti, Mayawati or Modi rises up from nowhere, proudly displays his or her lack of English communication skills and yet manages to persuade voters to do the right thing. You see, things were much better when only children of politicians and bureaucrats who spoke impeccable English were there to dictate the agenda for the nation.

That is because the gulf between India and Bharat will never cease. But the problem is, people like Modi are actually threatening this feudal cartel of the privileged. You see, not even Atal Bihari Vajpayee threatened this cozy equation. No wonder, the English media hates Modi.

This battle between India and Bharat started in the 1980s. It has thrown up many heroes and heroines who fight for India. Modi is the first person who is fighting aggressively on behalf of Bharat and he seems to be winning. Imagine an India where Congress chamchas, JNU intellectuals and their fellow travellers won’t have access to power in Delhi. No wonder, the secular English media hates Namo.

I think this will be the most interesting political battle in India since the days of Mahatma Gandhi. He settled that one in favour of Nehru; and Vallabhbhai Patel, a Gujarati, died a second fiddle. There is no Mahatma now; only voters. So Rahul Gandhi or Modi? We were the first to do a survey between the Rahul versus Modi possibility and Modi came out to be the sure-shot winner. If you have doubts, keep watching the big fight. Bharat is destined to win this time.

And we must win. There is no other choice.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jan 2013 08:49

Sushupti wrote:India gang rape victim's father: I want the world to know my daughter's name is Jyoti Singh Pandey
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-1521289

He had referred to her as Jyoti a few days ago (the article was posted on this thread by someone I recall). Where are Arundhoti, Teesta and those other rascals now? I guess this guy who earns 5000 Rs. a month qualifies as wealthy upper class to those parasites.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2013 08:53

vasu raya wrote:They are talking about this,

is-the-sixth-offender-really-juvenile?

Why would they rely on biological age if its the mental maturity of this said 'Juvenile' that matters in this crime, are they no psycho-metric tests to determine the mental age of a Juvenile who can deal with the world as an adult? these aren't IQ tests.

In Gen VK Singh's case the age determinant for courts' was his matriculation record and DOB entered at the start of his military career, it never was his biological DOB.

Err, The problem is this miscreant's school ceritficate says he is not an adult.

Most likely the fellow is an adult (otherwise he ran away as a six year old to Delhi and became a cleaner what ever) but the system does not record this.

Why didnt the media ask his mother when was this abortion born?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Jan 2013 08:58

^ didn't the supreme court say that one has to go with the wind instead of relying on birth certificates?

Oh! I forgot. Muslims have first right over Indian resources.

Theoji, this is the India that RSS's head was talking about.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 06 Jan 2013 09:00

Sri
The girl fought to her best against the attackers and died as a brave person even though she was raped she is a hero. Our society will remember her for ages to come with deep respect.she did wake up a sleeping nation.[/quote]

Anantha, I am confused. Where in my post did I imply that there was a shame attached?

A gentle request to you to withdraw these specific words (shame attached) since it refers to my post, and I did not state it explicitly nor did I imply it. For the record, I do not believe any shame was attached. Will delete this post if you modify yours.

Sri
I never implied you said such a thing, if so apologies. I am only in agreement with what you said . A big chunk of media and people have wanted to keep the name of the victim hidden and that is why I am saying in general that there is no shame in attaching a name and face to the victim. We are already weakened by these acts there is no room for me to make a well meaning person like you look bad.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Jan 2013 09:07

ramana wrote:So Brahmin girl raped by a Muslim is the fault of Hinduism?

Mahesh Butt verily you speak from your behind. And all those of his ilk.

The friend is from Gorakhpur and we have BRF members from that town and will get verification.

Absolutely, Hindus are born guilty.