India-US Relations : News and Discussion

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Sep 2014 11:56

SSridhar wrote: That may well be true. Why should we go through such nuances and hair-splitting? There should never have been any summons to an Indian PM in the first place. It is mind boggling that some court in the US serves summons on the Indian PM for an event that has nothing to with it. Some obscure guy claims that some relatives of some from his county were affected by events in Gujarat twelve years back and the court issues summons? This is the height of arrogance and this needs to be countered by a similar or even more dramatic reprisal by an Indian when the US president next arrives in India. Nothing short of that would do. The US must be put in its place.

Agreed. US courts do not have jurisdictional authority over Indian leaders. This calls for tit for tat reciprocity. When any US president visits India, they should be issued summons for crimes against humanity (of which there are multiple evidences). For fun India can also add charges of opium smuggling in his school days should Ombaba visit India.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Sep 2014 11:56

JE Menon wrote:And the Loin of Pakisatan has just finished his speech at the UN General Assembly.

Yeah speaking to Empty chairs??

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Sep 2014 12:13

And today is Birthday of Shaheed Bhagat Singh.
27th September 1907.

May his memory live forever.

I hope NaMo mentions him in his speech. Would love to see UK squirming in chairs.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 12:43

I think the Modi administration has shown some naivete in accepting Obama's invitation so close to the US mid-term elections, and should have waited longer. John Kerry's use of the US-India strategic forum to criticise the Food Security bill shows that the present SD is only interested in a one-way relationship, and the Modi government should have walked away from meeting Obama. Incidentally the same people condemning the mars mission were the same who were lambasting India's vote at the wto.

Although it is being downplayed, no leader from Castro to Ahmedinejad and a host of potentates and robber barons, has ever been summoned to appear before a US court, whether civil or criminal whilst attending the UNGA. It indicates that the twin irritants of the visa row and the DK affairs have not gone away. The UN's Ban ki Moon silence speaks volumes about him and the organisation he leads, and calls into question whether NYC should continue to host this circus. Modi and subsequent leaders should stay away in future.

Obama doesn't have the inclination, motivation and vision to offer any kind of constructive India-US relationship, as there is far too much entrenched anti-indian baggage in the democrats, and the BJP should have seen this way before the election.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 27 Sep 2014 12:50

^^ The Goras are a band of mercenary traders who are untrustworthy and devious. They are best kept at an arm's length. Modi will be better off forging deeper relationships with Asian and African nations who look up to India for leadership.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Sep 2014 12:57

True ... but the show of all izz well has to be made for various reasons. There is no reason not to talk to the Americans even if the end result is no deal. Who knows Modi may be able to persuade some of them to set up shop in India.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 13:07

pankajs wrote:True ... but the show of all izz well has to be made for various reasons. There is no reason not to talk to the Americans even if the end result is no deal. Who knows Modi may be able to persuade some of them to set up shop in India.

Very true, yet even when has was personna non grata a whole host of US and German companies set up shop in Gujarat

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 27 Sep 2014 13:11

^^^ Goras will go wherever they smell money as they are mercenary traders with no scruples. They are in China too in great strength and will land in North Korea in a minute if they smell money there. So this argument that relations need to be good b/w US and India and Modi has to go through the motions to ensure this is not true.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 27 Sep 2014 13:31

SanjayC wrote:^^ The Goras are a band of mercenary traders who are untrustworthy and devious. They are best kept at an arm's length. Modi will be better off forging deeper relationships with Asian and African nations who look up to India for leadership.

Absolutely.
I see no difference between Paki and Amreeki.

Hafiz Saeed is declared not guilty of masterminding the cowardly , typical Islamic Mumbai attacks. Typical Paki. Typical Paki court.
Now a US court is summoning the Indian PM based on frivolous charges.
( And this in a country where we all know how that state-sponsored attorneys are over-stretched in providing defense for those who cannot afford it, leaving them to make plea bargain after plea bargain resulting is vast swathes of under-privileged serving jail terms. . )
Both of them are doing the same thing. Thumbing their nose at Indians.
This is how bullies operate. And bullies will not stop until they are hurt physically and shamed. It is only then they realize that they are vulnerable too and will they back off.
Ive told this before in the Paki thread. Both the US and Pak u/stand only one language. The language of power and violence.
It would take one incident that we have to demonstrate to show we mean business. Something like the Hainan plane incident .

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Sep 2014 14:30

First indication that NaMo will not reply to Kashmir Rant of Loin of Bakistan in his UNGA address tonight,

Undistracted by Sharif, Modi's UN speech will be 'forward looking'

Some Indian diplomat is going to reply to the Rant of Bakistan's Loin.

Yashwant Raj, Hindustan Times New York, September 27, 2014

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will not dignify Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif’s remarks on Kashmir with a response when he addresses United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) on Saturday.

Prime Minister Modi will deliver his remarks in a “forward looking manner”, said ministry of external affairs spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin in a terse reaction to Sharif’s statement.

But Sharif won’t be allowed to get away with it either. Exercising India’s right to reply, one of its diplomats will rebut the Pakistan Prime Minister from the floor of the assembly.

During his speech, Sharif said he was disappointed that India cancelled foreign secretary-level talks last month because of Pakistani support for right of the people of Kashmir to self-determination.

It is “our historic commitment and a duty, as a party to the Kashmir dispute,” Sharif said at UNGA late Friday, around the time Modi was arriving in New York.

India disagrees, of course, and finds UN references by Pakistan to Kashmir with the usual call for international mediation tiresome and, increasingly, undeserving of attention.

It was with the same sense of exasperation that India had called off foreign secretary-level talks over Pakistani ambassador meeting with Hurriyat representatives.''''''''''''''''''''''''

''''''''''''''''''''''''''
The MEA spokesperson said there are no plans for Modi to meet Sharif on the sidelines of the UN general assembly, as world leaders do often — not even a pull-aside.

Modi has a few scheduled meetings ahead — Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa, Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and Nepal’s Prime Minister Sushil Koirala.

But, once again, no Sharif.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Sep 2014 14:41

Even so engagement may be to our benefit especially now when we have a clear headed leader who is focused on the what is good for the country. If it was MMS I would be afraid of what next he will barter away for a state dinner.

Also there are clear difference between Paki and Amreeki even if the mindset towards India is similar. For a start, Amreekis are world leaders in a broad range of technologies especially defense. Export of sensitive/dual-use tech still is controlled by GOTUS even if the IP is owned by private companies. Most of the so called "Free world" follows the direct example of Amreeka, a case in point being Modi Visa denial. US is still a net security provider in our region though their writ is diminishing by the day.

I can go on and on but sufficient to say that we can certainly meet them half way on all issues of our interest. The first step to trying to get there is to meet and talk to the Americans. I am no supporter of the US position on most issues.

Parallel, we can initiate discussion to bring a similar law in the Indian parliament. Also, go ahead and start proceedings against unknown persons in the US embassy under SC/ST Atrocities act and the latest rape laws. Emulate the Chinese in releasing an Annual report on Human Rights in America. But we should not shy away from meeting and talking with them.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Sep 2014 14:51

The court summon thing is deliberate. The judge in NY would not be so incompetent as to issue summons unless he was either bribed by this ISI backed NGO or got blessings from US SD behind the scenes.

Probably SD and O'bumbler sensed a snub in Modi announcing his fast after they made all arrangements for lunch / dinner and want to get even. This calls for tit for tat. Serve a summon on O'bumbler or JoKerry when they land in India next.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Sep 2014 15:07

Some points of interest

1. Modi proposed to have two Japanese nominees in the PMO. Did he make a similar offer to the Chinese? Will he make a similar offer to the American business? As I have stated before, this is display of intent and good signalling even if nothing comes out of the proposal. He is clearly stating that the Japanese have his ears, will most likely have the 1st right of refusal on most project if they have competence and care to make a competing offer.

2. Modi's outright rejection of the latest WTO deal while he allowed recommended action on solar panel import to lapse. WTO deal once signed will almost be impossible to reverse while the decision on solar panel import from US and China can be reversed anytime at the whim of the government of the day.

3. Is is preferable having a sole Japanese vendor for supplying the latest CNC machine vs having the Japanese, Americans and the Germans vying for the contract?

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 15:31

Pankaj that's a very good summary, and as long as the Wassenaar, NSG and Australia club exists Us companies will be excluded from major projects even if they are vying for contracts vs the Europeans, Japanese and Russians. In fairness to US companies they are aware of this. The fear is that Russia might walk out of the NSG in the next 18 months.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Sep 2014 16:18

The point of the Summons etc is to drive a wedge between US and India: the targets are the binjnejes. So no point in walking into that trap with a lot of tit-for-tit childishness. HOWEVER, well-targeted actions are needed, which is what I listed.

Reply to the offending Judge, asking him/her/it to get a grip on the law and demand dismissal with costs. If they don't dismiss, THEN slap the US system for obvious refusal to abide by even US law.
If they dismiss, Hizzoner is still going to have a clear imprint, posteriorously impressed. Other judges will see it and

File a countersuit in the name of Indian voters (and since there have to be Offended US Parties, in the name of 1 million desi-Americans. File it for a sum like 330M (OK< make it 331M). Cite the slander and real and punitive damages. Publicize that fact.

Force Discovery - exactly who was behind the idiot suit. Publish far and wide: you would be surprised. I bet it's the Baptist conversion scams. The ones really behind these need to be exposed.

Publish that widely in India.

File Contempt of Court charges in India.

Declare all those persona non grata in India. Close their outfits in India, ban their businesses.

That way their support base in the US will feel the real pinch and the pain-in-da-butt.

This cannot be left to the Indian babucracy, esp. the Indian Embassy and Conjulates. All useless. They probably haven't even woken up to read the news.

There is no need for nonsense tit-for-tit stuff in India - Indian courts won't issue any such Summons which go against international law. But Indian courts have smart people too: they WILL go after these buggers for contempt. Look at what they did even to the DRDO mandarins. Even Arundhoti got Contempt of Court slapped on her, and had to go (never mind) someone to "get off".

The CAPEEM ppl in California, on barely a shoestring and prayer, kicked the butts of the entire California Ejjukashun Bored and the might of HahVahd's Foundation Lawyers and Don "Quixote' Witzel, reducing the latter to a whining lump of jelly in the Discovery process.

Surely all the might of the desis now assembled in Noo Yoik can do better than that? Have to convey some serious lessons.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 16:37

UB the fact that this occurred as the PM was enroute was as you rightly said, contrived to create a rift, however the DOJ had time to be appraised of this fabrication and should have stamped on it. Clearly the SD was happy to see Modi humiliated to serve its purposes and failed to communicate the immunity aspect to the federal court in NYC. The message seem to be we, will invite you, and then pi.. in your face

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 27 Sep 2014 16:47

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 523_1.html

46 elected US officials confirm presence at Modi reception

At least 46 elected US officials, including a Governor and 45 Congress members, have confirmed their participation at a reception hosted by Indian-Americans for Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who will address the gathering at the iconic Madison Square Garden.

...
The three confirmed Senators are Robert Menendez, also Chairman of Foreign Relations Committee of US Senate, Joe Donnelly and Cory Booker.

There would be 42 House of Representative members including Steny Hoyer, Democratic whip in the House, Frank Pallone, founder of the House India Caucus and Eliot Engel, Ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

The list also includes Ami Bera, the first Gujarati American in the US Congress and Tulsi Gabbard, the first Hindu in the US Congress.

Other Congress members who have confirmed presence are Nita Lowey, Jim McDermott,Jerrold Nadler, Sanford Bishop, Carolyn Maloney, Ed Royce, Chaka Fattah, Pete Sessions, Sheila Jackson Lee, Joe Crowley, Gregory Meeks, Steve Israel and Cathy McMorris Rodgers.

The list includes elected officials from both Democratic and Republican parties.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 27 Sep 2014 16:55

schinnas wrote:The court summon thing is deliberate. The judge in NY would not be so incompetent as to issue summons unless he was either bribed by this ISI backed NGO or got blessings from US SD behind the scenes.

Probably SD and O'bumbler sensed a snub in Modi announcing his fast after they made all arrangements for lunch / dinner and want to get even. This calls for tit for tat. Serve a summon on O'bumbler or JoKerry when they land in India next.

I read 2 Muslims from Gujarat have been brought to NY to file this suit.

Both probably worked with Teesta or Harsh Mander and worked with some NGOs/state agencies to get it all together.

Fasting thing is not a big snub. Please! Let us not look foolish repeating this.

Unless Modi decides to break the nexus of NGOs/C-System/PRESSTITUTES like NDTV, they will continue to conspire with any agency in the world to bring him down. You just can't ignore these rascals. They are plotting 24x7x365. The daggers,missiles,poison everything is being readied to destroy Modi.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Sep 2014 17:20

The judge is Analisa Torres, sounds more like her honor than his honor.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 27 Sep 2014 17:24

http://madhukishwar.blogspot.in/2014/09 ... s-are.html

Sums it all!

But most important of all, with this one stroke, all the Modi's-Baiters at home and abroad are stumped. It is an open secret that the campaign to demonize Modi in particular and BJP in general was led by NGOs funded by American and European donor agencies with the full backing of their respective governments. Even the evangelical groups which portrayed Modi as a full blooded fascist, as a "mass murderer", did so in coordination with the political establishment of America and European countries. South Asian studies departments of American campuses became the hot beds for Hate-Modi campaign. The Anya Loombas and Teesta Setalvads could mobilize a whole network of Modi tormentors because the American establishment was behind that campaign. Modi understands very well that even Medha Patkar could create havoc for him and Gujarat over Narmada issue not because she had mass support in India but because she had the backing of American campuses, powerful donor agencies and evangelical groups. Whoever America decides to spotlight at once gets catapulted into international limelight. If The New York Times treats you as a star or a messiah of the downtrodden, how can The Times of India afford to ignore you? That is how Media Patkar and Teesta Setalvad captured the media in India.

Even as an ordinary citizen, if you have an American visa in your passport, no country denies you visa, Likewise denial of US visa to Modi while he was CM led to several European countries also treating him as a persona non-grata.

With this one invitation all of Modi's tormentors have been silenced. 'Sabki bolti band'. All those who ran virulent campaigns against Modi's entry into the US, all those who worked to have even his video lecture cancelled for an American university are now subdued. There are no blackflag demonstrations greeting Modi in the US. No one is screaming at the American government for having invited him. The Indian community in the US is so charged that he is being treated as a rock star. This is perhaps the first time that a Prime Minister of a country is addressing a mass gathering in a foreign country.

Even the mighty Amartya Senn who had at one time led the campaign to have Modi's US visa cancelled, has had his lips sealed. He knows that compared to the lakhs of Indians dying to attend Modi's public meetings, his baiters cannot gather more than a 100 people for a protest demonstration, unless they rope in Islamic jehadi organizations for the purpose. And if Amartya Sen is silenced, how can a Teesta Setalvad or even Arundhati Roy indulge in histrionics?

Since Modi now has gained great legitimacy in the eyes of the American establishment which has been acting as the mai baap of human rights community in India, those who had made a lucrative profession out of running hate campaigns against him, feel orphaned. Their sources of funding may also start drying up.

Thus, Modi's ready acceptance of American Presidents' invitation has managed to defang all those who made his life hell, moved heaven and earth to nail him as the prime culprit of 2002 riots. As long as the UPA was in power, they were confident of achieving their ends through means fair or foul. Even though the Supreme Court appointed SIT cleared Modi's name, even though they did not succeed in getting one FIR registered against Modi, they tormented him through relentless defamation campaigns with the backing of their funders in the West. After the UPA lost power and Modi became PM, their hate campaign lost much of the media support. Yet, Teesta Setalvad & Shabnam Hashmi Gang did not give up their smear campaign. But now with the American government having befriended Modi, they seem as shell shocked as they were at the stunning defeat of Sonia Congress.

The sudden silence of the self appointed guardians of human rights in India reveals their true political worth and weightage. Their lung power, their political clout is all borrowed. The moment they lose foreign funding and foreign patronage, they begin to fade into insignificance. Most of the leading NGOs claiming to be defenders of human rights and minority rights are hot house growths. They have hardly any roots or support base in Indian society. Their clout is largely based on the clout of their handlers and financial backers.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 27 Sep 2014 17:48

A_Gupta wrote:The judge is Analisa Torres, sounds more like her honor than his honor.

Analisa Torres

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Sep 2014 17:49

Unless one of those suing Modi was a US citizen in 2002, it is hard to see how the suit was allowed.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... suits.html

From April 2013:

Two things America is known for—its love of lawsuits and its delight in meddling in the affairs of other countries—led to a strange form of litigation in which foreigners bring suits in U.S. courts against other foreigners, for human rights violations in foreign countries. Last week’s 9-0 Supreme Court ruling in Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum has finally put an end to this litigation. Human rights groups complain that the decision means that foreign governments and corporations will be able to violate human rights with impunity. But cases like Kiobel, in which a group of Nigerians sued a Nigerian corporation and its Dutch and British corporate parents over their role in human rights abuses in Nigeria, never led to real human rights enforcement. In more than 30 years of litigation involving hundreds of cases, hardly any money went to victims. The Supreme Court got rid of a popular but unworkable idea that U.S. courts can be used to police behavior around the world.

The court’s conservatives, in an opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts, threw out the suit based on the “presumption against extraterritoriality”—an interpretive rule that provides that a law does not apply to events abroad unless it explicitly says so. Henceforth, ATS suits can be brought only if the major events in question took place on American soil. The atrocities in Nigeria did not.

If this commentator is right, then the suit against Modi is deliberate unfriendly action, and not a product of some of the absurdities in the American legal system.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Sep 2014 18:00

What difference is there between the Chinese faecal parasites and the Yanqui faecal parasites? NOne! The style is different.The Chinese crudely send in their troops into Indian territory to tickle us up on the eve and during a summit,while the Yanquis equally crudely start Senate and governmental investigations into our "restrictive trade practices",'human rights","nuclear intransigence","WTO sabotage" ,and orchestrate a propaganda campaign coinciding with the PM's visit by their puppet NGOs and their ilk.

To quote the bard....
"A plague upon both their houses!"

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 27 Sep 2014 18:11

@SSridhar ^^^

The Federal Judges while appointed by POTUS, are an independent bunch. They routinely issue summons for incidents that have nothing to do with them. The theory is that some monies or assets of the 'defendant' will be in the US or flow through the US financial system. Just take a look at the ruling or Argentine bonds.

I'm not concerned about the lawsuit/summons: it will only serve to strengthen the diaspora's support for NaMo. What I'm more PO'd at is this:

"But it is a reminder that the United States government believed that Mr. Modi had acted too slowly to stop the riots and that in 2005, it took the rare step of putting him under a visa ban, which remains in place. (He was able to travel because he is now eligible for a diplomatic visa, which is not affected.) "

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/27/world ... riots.html

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 27 Sep 2014 18:14

@A_Gupta ^^^: It is an unfriendly act but not by the GOTUS. See the link to the NYT article above

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 18:16

Philip, you have expressed very succinctly what has happened. Hospitality and respect is the first article of diplomacy and disrespecting an invited guest shows a lack of manners and fore-sight. Never in the history of the UNGA has an invited leader been so humiliated as by this summons. Think of all the despots, dictators and terrorists who have graced the UN over the years. The next time Ban kimoon asks India to cooperate on climate change, he should be told to sling his hook.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Sep 2014 18:46

Cosmo_R wrote:@A_Gupta ^^^: It is an unfriendly act but not by the GOTUS. See the link to the NYT article above

May be. But it also saying nothing has really changed. While Namo is visiting as a head of government, and the Indian community and the Desi Media are going ga ga over the event and a carnival atmosphere has started, the visa ban stays. If Modi does not compromise on items that the US wants (Nuclear Liability law, buying defense items at very high prices, changing Indian laws to suit US companies etc etc etc), then everything will go back to what it used to be. And if he agrees to all these, then more demands will be made.
Gautam

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Sep 2014 19:00

Cosmo_R, it is that US arrogance I am talking about, as though they rule the entire world. This is the third or fourth time that a US court has sent summons to an Indian leader for incidents that happened within India, under a frivolous and unsustainable argument of claiming to have jurisdiction because some American citizen's relative had suffered etc. As an Indian, it gives me no consolation that somebody else in Argentina might have also suffered like that. The US courts or US citizens have not been known to be seized of such sudden love for 'oppressed people' in different corners of the world, like Ahmedis or Christians or Hindus in Pakistan, like Uyghurs in China or Shia in Saudi Arabia, Kurds in Turkey etc. When Xi Jinping visits the US, no lawsuit is brought against him. Though, therefore, there could be an EJ angle to this, there is also an inveterate India angle as well. That is why, it is important for India to retaliate. There is nothing in Indian Law which excluded anybody from its 'valid' jurisdiction either.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Sep 2014 19:06

Cosmo_R wrote:@A_Gupta ^^^: It is an unfriendly act but not by the GOTUS. See the link to the NYT article above

@Cosmo_R, cases filed before 2013, e.g., as against Sonia Gandhi by Khalistanis, is one thing. The problem is that around April 2013, the US Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that cases involving only foreign nationals on foreign soil are outside the purview of US Courts and the Alien Tort law. Any case admitted after that Supreme Court ruling is therefore deliberate misconduct on the part of the District Court, unless the plaintiffs were US citizens.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 27 Sep 2014 19:06

The "lawsuit" and "summons" crashed and burned and fell flat on its face. It had some press cover for a few hours and then became a damp squib. The running joke is that the Chicago "brother" that instigated this may not be able to locate India in the world map. Yes they sprung a surprise but it blew back on their face.

rgosain wrote:Philip, you have expressed very succinctly what has happened. Hospitality and respect is the first article of diplomacy and disrespecting an invited guest shows a lack of manners and fore-sight. Never in the history of the UNGA has an invited leader been so humiliated as by this summons. Think of all the despots, dictators and terrorists who have graced the UN over the years. The next time Ban kimoon asks India to cooperate on climate change, he should be told to sling his hook.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 27 Sep 2014 19:09

Well this had to happen. I still don't understand why Modi chose to visit Mr. Hussain ??? We were dealing with them fine without any visit so why this urgency in accepting the invite ??? It sounds pretty magnanimous when Modi say's that he won't let his personal feelings come between India-US relationship but his consistent humiliation all these years has made that equation personal with India. Failure of Modi to understand makes this US visit decision Modi's first blunder. Unless Modi doesn't payback US in the same coin they will constantly keep humiliating him and by extension India whenever they get a chance as can be seen by the recent example. Frankly Modi needs to show more spine while dealing with US, enough with practising taqiyya deliver some tight jhaapads.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 27 Sep 2014 19:11

A_Gupta wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:@A_Gupta ^^^: It is an unfriendly act but not by the GOTUS. See the link to the NYT article above
@Cosmo_R, cases filed before 2013, e.g., as against Sonia Gandhi by Khalistanis, is one thing. The problem is that around April 2013, the US Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that cases involving only foreign nationals on foreign soil are outside the purview of US Courts and the Alien Tort law. Any case admitted after that Supreme Court ruling is therefore deliberate misconduct on the part of the District Court, unless the plaintiffs were US citizens.

Yes, and the misconduct is on the part of the district court not the GOTUS.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Sep 2014 19:33

Cosmo_R wrote:
A_Gupta wrote: @Cosmo_R, cases filed before 2013, e.g., as against Sonia Gandhi by Khalistanis, is one thing. The problem is that around April 2013, the US Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that cases involving only foreign nationals on foreign soil are outside the purview of US Courts and the Alien Tort law. Any case admitted after that Supreme Court ruling is therefore deliberate misconduct on the part of the District Court, unless the plaintiffs were US citizens.
Yes, and the misconduct is on the part of the district court not the GOTUS.

As this scholarly paper points out, even the plaintiffs residing in the US with refugee status does not allow them to sue under the Alien Torts statute, after the Supreme Court's 2013 Kiobel v Royal Dutch Petroleum decision.

http://www.law.unc.edu/components/handl ... 2&cid=1232

The question then is why would Judge Analisa Torres (daughter of judge and prominent New York citizen Frank Torres, and granddaughter of New York Judge Felipe Torres) do something like this on her own; or is there some chain of connection up into the State Department as there was with Khobragade? After all, US Attorney Preet Bharara is also supposed to be independent of GOTUS, but there was a chain of connections in the Khobragade case that, while cannot be used as proof of anything, neither can be dismissed as coincidence.

PS: The Hindu has a copy of the lawsuit: (PDF)
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/arch ... 26838a.pdf
The Plaintiffs, while not named, are said to be citizens of India. Per all my readings so far, this case is inadmissible (after 2013, when the SCOTUS nullified precedent.)

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 27 Sep 2014 19:46

Synchronicity. Timing is everything here and it would be interesting to know who issued the visas in ND. This entire episode call in to question the bona fides of all of those US diplomats who presented the invitation to Modi including John Kerry, who should have resigned with Nancy Powell a long time ago.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 27 Sep 2014 20:19

So who wants to believe that the PLA does not listen to the top Chinese Honcho?
Similarly for SD or Federal Courts with top US Honcho?

Modi is going to just ignore as this... all the more voters and supporters in the bank for him, the comments on this forum and the streets prove it... MSG will only be packed even more!
Strategemic tacticary by China and the US seems rather like hand wringing... Ironically reducing leverage for them.
Everyone roots for the underdog! Even better when the underdog is a bad boy!

saip · Post by **saip** » 27 Sep 2014 20:25

I am not sure the question of jurisdiction is dealt with when a suit is filed. When the judgment is issued the judge may go into the jurisdiction.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 27 Sep 2014 20:30

After reading the above links and documents, this means that Warren Anderson and defunct Union Carbide who has been taken over by Dow can be sued under the ATS. I wonder why the ATS route has not been taken to go after Warren Anderson and Dow Chemicals.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 27 Sep 2014 20:35

Sorry if this was posted here before....but a good 101 and explanation on the Modi summons: http://www.niticentral.com/2014/09/27/f ... 39361.html

And read the above before jumping to conclusions and wasting valuable bandwidth.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Sep 2014 20:39

Cosmo_R wrote:@A_Gupta ^^^: It is an unfriendly act but not by the GOTUS. See the link to the NYT article above

...

Yes, and the misconduct is on the part of the district court not the GOTUS.

IIRC, IMO etc.

The case would have been filed routinely in the judge's office, and the form will be stamped by the clerk. Any lawyer can file any suit and it will generate a summons in a more or less automatic fashion. I imagine that the judge doesn't even look at it at this stage.

It is a procedural smoke-and-mirrors mischief job IMO, taking advantage of court filing procedure and the general ignorance of Indian media people about US court. We shouldn't go off the deep end saying America has insulted our PM (it has, but not in this instance, and he wasn't PM at that time), or UN should be taught a lesson for letting it happen etc.

(Just as silly as Western media screaming about Indian government and Indian people when one man's legal notice results in Penguin withdrawing a book from publication, so Indians are not alone in this silliness.)

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 27 Sep 2014 20:43

SwamyG wrote:Sorry if this was posted here before....but a good 101 and explanation on the Modi summons: http://www.niticentral.com/2014/09/27/f ... 39361.html

Answer: The word summons is ordinarily understood in the Indian context in a criminal case. It actually is equivalent to issuance of notice by a court upon filing of the complaint. However, there’s one critical difference in our systems. In India, generally upon filing of a lawsuit, the Judge hears the case and decides if it is worth issuing a notice to the other side asking for its reply. In the US, this notice (or ‘summons’ as they call it) is issued automatically upon filing by the Court registry. If you see the summons copy, the signature is that of the court clerk and not the Judge. The Judge hasn’t even heard the most preliminary points of this lawsuit.

The lawsuit obviously looks well-timed to deflect attention from the substantive issues that Modi will be focussing on during his ongoing visit to the US. It was filed two days ago to try to serve summons and a copy of the complaint upon Modi while he is in New York.

This, however, has a few puzzling aspects to it. As Paragraph 29 of the complaint indicates, both individual plaintiffs were not in the US until 2014. The question then arises is – when did they land in the US? Was it after May 16, 2014 – when BJP was declared majority party in the Lok Sabha and, therefore, Modi’s arrival in the US at least for the UN General Assembly (if not to meet Obama) was certain? Moreover, who financed their travel to the US (if not self-financed)? What visa are they on? Are they trying to seek refugee status in the US after full 12 years of the incidents? Hopefully, some investigative journalism will be done to show the motive behind this lawsuit.

One point needs to be mentioned here is the unfortunate Intelligence failure – both by Indian and US agencies. Given precedence (lawsuits against Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi have been filed recently around the time they have visited the US), this should have been expected by both countries. This is a serious failure which requires a thorough investigation.

This is what India has to build. Find out who helped them identify these 2 people, who gave them visa and who shipped them out. identify the apparatus. Destroy it